Many victims of abuse within the fellowship have not been able to receive the therapy they need and want because they lack the required financial resources.
Overseers have generally avoided contributing funds for victim therapy, based on various reasons, including:
- They may be scared of legal claims against the fellowship’s accumulated funds, but surely the likelihood of that would be much lower if they readily provided funds for victim support.
- They have claimed that funds were donated for ‘the work / workers’ and therefore shouldn’t be used for non-workers.
- They are also reluctant to acknowledge that significant funds have accumulated.
Overseers could resolve these concerns by each area asking all current members if anyone objects to using accumulated funds for victim support.
Recently WINGS was provided the following report about funding within the fellowship. WINGS believes that it provides very relevant information and we strongly support the call to action in the final section.
How Money Works in the 2×2 Ministry
Warning: Money is an intentionally avoided topic within the Truth/2×2 church, leaving many with a false or naive understanding of how finances actually function in the Truth. This lack of transparency is deeply problematic and has real consequences. The following article may be very painful to read, especially if you have spent time in the ministry or are a victim of sexual abuse. Please proceed with care. Still, as many of us believe, “the truth will set you free.” Honest understanding is essential, even when it’s uncomfortable. As one worker told us, “we aren’t trying to hide anything,” the lack of transparency begs to differ. To be clear, none of the authors believe anything nefarious was originally intended in how large financial assets have come to be managed; it very likely started with simple practicality. However, when the outcome is highly problematic, it becomes an informed and deliberate choice when no changes are made.
The information presented here became known to the authors only recently—largely beginning in 2023—through efforts to locate funds for survivor health care and restorative justice for victims of child sexual abuse (CSA) and sexual abuse (SA) within the church. Attempts to access ministry-controlled resources were largely unsuccessful, with limited progress in Washington and some initial but abandoned efforts in Colorado and Minnesota.
This article explains how ministry finances operate to the best of our knowledge. The information was obtained through discussions with many current and former workers, as well as some individuals who have been involved with financial trusts designed for the ministry’s use. In this article, we discuss what these funds are used for, and what they are not used for. While the details vary by region, the overall financial structure is largely the same worldwide. It’s a topic that deserves a light to be shone on it, and the media already started doing exactly that.
The Reality of Ministry’s Financial Operations
While the ministry presents itself as a faith-based network of “homeless and penniless” workers, its operations are substantial and expensive. While field workers likely can be sustained by small donations (aka ‘white envelopes’) provided by the local congregation, these will not cover the larger expenses of the overall church’s operations.
Common larger ministry costs include:
- Flights: Travel for special meetings and conventions make it clear that significant travel costs are involved. For the special meeting rounds in the Pacific Islands alone, the travel budget will very likely exceed $100,000 annually.
- Conventions: Each typically costs over $50,000 in direct expenses such as food (even if some food and services are donated), utilities, waste management, fuel, maintenance, permits, etc.
- Medical care: In countries without socialized healthcare, workers’ medical costs can be very expensive, especially for uninsured workers not yet eligible for Medicare (or similar programs outside of the US).
- Overseas Housing for Workers: Colloquially called batches, used in regions where it’s impractical for workers to stay exclusively in the homes of the Friends.
Although many friends assume wealthy members cover these expenses informally, the reality is more structured. Although this may vary regionally, we understand the ministry generally relies on assets and trusts accumulated over decades to fund its operations.
How Ministry Finances Are Structured
In the early 20th century, the ministry likely operated almost entirely in cash. Starting at least as far back as the 1970s, workers began working with the Friends with financial expertise to use formal banking systems to manage large and unwieldy cash-based donations. To facilitate this, they established trusts—financial instruments legally designated for “the furtherance of the gospel.” These trusts made it far easier to accept large or entire estate donations, which soon became common, especially in the circumstances of overseers issuing formatted wording for people to give their estate ‘to the work.’
The Financial Trust Network
Money donated to the ministry is generally held in private trusts managed by custodians, often elders with professional financial backgrounds (CPAs, business owners, lawyers, etc.). While some main trusts exist at the regional level, any individual can set up a trust for ministry use and simply inform an overseer that funds are available when needed. In some cases the funds may be held by a trusted elder without any formal trust documents. Both are referred to as ‘Trusts’ in the following comments.
Because of this decentralized system, likely no one person knows how many trusts exist—there are plausibly thousands worldwide that have been created over decades. Even trust custodians often don’t know about others operating in their same region. Only overseers likely have full knowledge of all trusts that exist in their region.This is consistent with the position taken on other abuses in the ministry as well. The “I didn’t know about it so I’m not responsible” or “I was unaware of it so what am I/we to do about it?” has been a common response to the CSA crisis. Structuring a loose decentralized collection of accounts makes them hard to track & monitor. The hard truth is that this is a strategy in avoiding any responsibility and correction of abuses of all sorts and has been used to shirk CSA/SA abuses responsibility as well.
This secrecy fosters an environment where corruption is difficult to detect. For example, Dean Bruer reportedly exploited the lack of oversight by withdrawing funds from multiple trusts using the same legitimate expense justification; he then allegedly used some of this money to fund his now well-known illicit activities. The lack of checks and balances and system oversight made this easily possible.
Examples of recent financial operations
- According to a document shared with us, UK overseer Ben Crompton distributed an estate of GBP640,000 by retaining GBP138,000 for ‘The Christian Church in England’ and distributing GBP72,000 to 6 charities and the balance of GBP430,000 to 36 elder international workers.
- In 2023, a letter was shared from Merlin Affleck where one Canadian Trust was needing to be closed to comply with tax law, resulting in distributing $30,000 each to 4 workers and another 6 receiving smaller amounts.
These rare examples of unintended transparency provide a small glimpse of the reality of the financial scale by which the ministry operates.
Oversight and Operations
The ministry appears to function like a network of semi-autonomous franchises managed by regional overseers. Each overseer controls access to certain trusts and directs their use. When an overseer wants to fund an expense, they simply ask a trust manager to pay it—keeping themselves one step removed from direct financial transactions. It should be noted that this is an attribute in common with organized crime; that money is controlled by people who aren’t legally connected to the assets. This fact should be mortifying to both the workers and trust managers, yet they seem unfazed that this practice is still appropriate, despite FBI scrutiny.
While overseers are generally not named on the trusts directly, checks with overseers’ names on them have been shared with us in recent years. Overseers having trusts and accounts in their name was a historical practice, based on archives of codicil forms recorded in the California region under overseer Eldon Tenniswood’s leadership. Additionally, in the late 1990s in Alberta, Willis Propp was the center of a large scandal that also involved him distributing codicils to those interested in willing estates to the workers. However, in light of recent legal risks related to CSA lawsuits, we understand overseers have received legal advice to remove their names from any trust documentation for civil lawsuit liability reasons. With the precedence of $268,000 per victim on average across four settlements with the Catholic church CSA scandals, the civil liability of the ministry for restorative justice to CSA survivors would project to be enormous; likely over $1Billion based on the over 1000 perpetrators identified by the 2×2 Accountability Group and the fact that perpetrators often have many victims.
Note that overseers can deny ‘controlling’ any funds if they take a very narrow formal view of the word ‘control’ but they effectively do control the funds because the custodians / trustees only act in accordance with an overseer’s wishes. We have heard from multiple sources that the workers in California were sent a letter denying at least some aspect of the existence of financial trusts (we have not seen the actual letter, only reports that the region’s staff received such a letter this year).
Legality, Oversight, and Ethical Concerns
Are These Trusts Legal?
Yes. These trusts are lawful as long as they comply with applicable tax regulations. However, as one FBI representative told one of the authors, “No crimes happen that don’t somehow involve money.” It’s clear that the church’s financial operations are being closely scrutinized.
That said, they appear to operate in a fashion that prioritizes minimal visibility to the tax agencies. For example:
- Of all former workers we have communicated with, the maximum amount given to them always falls under the annual gift tax exclusion limit ($19,000 per recipient in 2025 in the US). We have seen severance amounts recently often being just under this amount. Isn’t it very curious that the trust managers are very careful to keep the gift amounts below needing to be reported to the IRS? Surely workers who have spent many years in the ministry and are nearing retirement age need and deserve more than $19,000 to move forward and survive.
- Additionally, one of the authors has first-hand experience of a trust manager’s refusal to supply the trust’s Tax ID Number when the trust was receiving a bequest. Estates are often required to make routine tax filings, and asking for the Tax ID Number of the beneficiary is a reasonable and legal request by the executor. This once again signals a priority of avoiding a trail for the IRS to follow over standard legal practice.
All the effort to avoid anything that would bring tax agency involvement is quite curious. The common scriptural justification of “Not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing” is way different than adopting a policy of secrecy with the whole process. Charities like Bridges & Balm report out the overall finances while preserving donor and client confidentiality. Any commercial bank does the same thing. We see no reasonable excuse for the way the ministry trusts operate, both in terms of transparency with donors, and with how tax reporting events appear to dictate procedures.
Is There Corruption with these Trusts?
We are aware of credible reports of ethical misconduct, even in cases where no laws have been broken. For example, if a trust manager provides a no-interest loan to a relative using ministry funds, this may not be illegal—but it would almost certainly violate the donor’s intent. Misuses of this kind have reportedly caused serious fallout in various regions over time.
Because financial transparency within the ministry is minimal, it is difficult to determine how widespread such incidents may be. As with many aspects of church governance, the system depends heavily on trust without meaningful oversight, leaving it open to abuse.
Since law enforcement does not intervene in unethical—but technically legal—practices, reform must come from within. Real change will only occur when donors (the Friends) become informed and begin to demand transparency and accountability. These funds ultimately belong to the congregation, and with that ownership comes responsibility: failure to monitor how the money is managed makes members complicit in its misuse.
How Much Money Are We Talking About?
Exact figures are impossible to confirm without cooperation of the trust managers themselves, which has been refused at nearly every turn. Workers and elders guard financial information closely. However, multiple sources—including workers and former trust insiders—have shared some information that allows for estimating the asset scope. For instance:
- A senior worker in one region clarified that the region’s largest trust contained between $1–10 million.
- One region (two trusts combined) reportedly held over $50 million as of a decade ago.
- Multiple workers have confirmed the regions they labored in had multiple accounts in the millions of dollars.
Based on a variety of information we’ve learned. We estimate that individual overseers each control access to $5–30 million in assets, with some regions far higher.
From this and other data points we’ve learned, we estimate the worldwide total of the aggregate trusts to be in the range of $500 million, though the true figure could be much greater. It could be far lower as well, particularly if funds have been mismanaged and/or suffered significant misappropriation.
Additionally, overseers have informal access to substantial private wealth from affluent members who are willing to provide money upon request. The ministry’s real financial reach, therefore, extends far beyond the trust assets alone.
Why So Much Money?
The accumulation of wealth may not have been intentional. However, since the ministry has often vilified other charitable causes – especially church-based ones – as self-serving, many members have simply willed their estates to the workers. Over decades, these estates have compounded into significant reserves, well beyond what the ministry’s operational costs could justify. With little oversight or accountability, this naturally invites power imbalances and ethical risk.
This likely explains why a senior worker recently put online an image of his premium-class seat on an international flight, which we’ve learned is not an uncommon practice. With such reserves, why not spend more than $10,000 on a flight for a convention tour or overseer meetup? Nothing wrong with this – assuming that is made transparent to those who fund the ministry – as well as to tax agencies. But since we know so many workers who have ‘gone without’ basic needs on so many occasions, this disparity is unjust and immoral.
Why the Lack of Transparency?
Transparency would directly contradict the ministry’s long-standing portrayal of its workers as “poor servants of the gospel.” While most overseers will admit the trusts exist, they often insist that “the workers have no money,” which may be technically true if their names aren’t on the accounts—it is nonetheless dishonest and misleading.
The church has also resisted registering as a charitable organization, claiming it is “not an organization,” although this has periodically happened. For instance, a Charitable Trust was registered in Victoria, Australia by the church. Regardless, this “not an organization” posturing contradicts the church’s history of registering other legal advantages under the name Christian Conventions, such as acquiring visas or designating conscientious objector status to workers during wartime. If the ministry registered as a charity as a standard practice, it would be legally required to provide annual financial reports—the kind of transparency many donors expect.
For comparison, Bridges and Balm, a registered charity that supports CSA/SA survivors and former workers, publishes its full financial statements annually, transparency that is required by law for registered non-profits organizations.
Why Aren’t These Funds Used to Support CSA Survivors?
In a few instances, they are. For instance, the WANIDAK fund in Washington has provided significant funds for survivor therapy to date, and we understand Advocates for the Truth (AFTT) received two significant one-time donations from overseers before AFTT shut down. However, these efforts are by far the exception, not the rule. As far as we are aware, no other regions provide financial assistance to survivors of sexual abuse suffered within the church.
Overseers in Australia and New Zealand declined to provide financial support “because the government agencies provide such support,” although the reality is that the government support is very limited and difficult to access.
A notable case involved a sister worker who required expensive inpatient care after being sexually assaulted by an overseer. Four overseers in and near the regions where the assault occurred were invited to help fund her treatment. Only one responded to our request—and only to refuse, citing the assault occurred outside of his jurisdiction and therefore he couldn’t participate in the funding. Private donors ultimately covered all expenses for the former sister worker’s clinical treatment. Imagine a company employer refusing to cover care for an employee assaulted by a manager while on the job—this is the equivalent of this response from overseers. It’s a situation that would award a very large sum by any jury, should the victim choose to pursue AND the ministry’s assets could be targeted. This type of civil lawsuit was the foundation behind all of the restorative justice efforts for victims in the CSA scandals of the Catholic Church, the Southern Baptist Church, and the Boy Scout settlements. It seems quite convenient that the church’s financial assets make them safe from civil lawsuits.
What You Can Do
For Current or Former Workers
If you were denied support for basic needs or healthcare under the claim that “there isn’t money available for that,” we are deeply sorry. The information above may be painful. It should now be clear to you that such statements were made as an active choice, not due to a lack of available resources. We encourage you to advocate boldly for your needs; the resources are there.
For Current Trust Managers
If the trust is fully your money that you personally manage, please consider this information in how you choose to move forward. Please consider using your resources to aid those who have been harmed.
For those managing trusts that have inherited large sums or estates, none of this information should come as a surprise. We appeal to your integrity. You hold the power to make things right.
So far, your silence and inaction suggest a willingness to be complicit—not only in sustaining the church’s shadowy financial operations but also in obstructing restorative justice for those who have been harmed. Some of you have hidden behind the legal language of the trusts’ stated purposes, claiming that helping survivors or former workers does not align with the mission of “the furtherance of the gospel.”
We strongly disagree—and likely so would those who originally entrusted their assets to you. It is difficult to imagine that they intended their money to support only the positive aspects of the ministry while ignoring the terrible harm caused by those they funded.
For the Friends/Donors to the ministry
- Ask for transparency. You have every right to know how donations are managed and spent.
- Request a refund, if desired. Some overseers and trust managers have a policy of refunding donations when asked.
- Challenge estate bequests. If your family’s estate has been left to the ministry and the heirs object, some overseers have a policy of returning all assets of the estate. Overseers and trust managers have little appetite for civil litigation.
- Check in with elderly workers/former workers. Are they being taken care of properly, with the assets of the ministry? Or are they on SSI (elderly welfare via Social Security in the US) or other country-specific elderly welfare programs to support their basic needs? If the latter, do you find it just that they rely on public entitlements when there are sufficient church assets available to support them? Is the support they are receiving even sufficient to meet their basic needs?
Consider supporting transparent survivor-focused charities with your money instead
If you want to help survivors within the broader church community, consider:
- Bridges and Balm (US-based, international support)
- United Open Arms (US-based, international support)
- Renewal North (Canada based, Canada focused)
If you want to help survivors in broader society, you have many options, and we encourage you to research and contribute to those you feel comfortable with.
An urgent appeal to overseers around the world:
We urge you to:
Immediately allocate substantial, ongoing funds for professional survivor healthcare, trauma therapy, assistance for former workers, legal aid for survivors to pursue justice, and restorative justice for survivors and former workers to help remedy the massive impact made on their overall health and livelihood.
Publicly commit to transparency in financial reporting, making survivor and former worker support a clear priority.
Structurally and transparently make financial support available to those harmed, setting a model of integrity, compassion, transparency and accountability.
This is far more than a matter of prudent stewardship—it is the defining test of your integrity and faithfulness to the principles you profess. Let it be known not for your secrecy, but for your willingness to confront the truth and bring healing. When you use your resources to address harm, you restore trust, honor donor intent, fulfill your ethical obligations, and echo the message of the gospel: that care and justice belong to all, especially the wounded and vulnerable.
You have the means. Now is the time to act.
Final Thoughts
The 2×2 ministry’s financial system is vast, opaque, and built on trust without accountability. This is leading to money being spent or withheld in ways that may be very inconsistent with the community’s moral values. Whether you are a worker, former member, or friend, having transparency on how money moves within the ministry is essential for ensuring integrity, justice, and genuine care for those who have been harmed in the community. This is a very reasonable expectation for you to have. Thank you for your interest in learning what we, through great effort, have been able to learn.
Authors
Steve Paddon
Bruce Murdoch
Paul Svendsen
Steve Kloos
Two of the above authors are board members of Bridges and Balm.
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According to Google – “multiple studies indicate a higher prevalence of psychopathic traits in corporate leadership…one 2016 Australian study of 261 corporate professionals found that 21% exhibited clinically significant levels of psychopathic traits, a rate comparable to prison populations. The rate of psychopathy in the general population is typically cited as around 1%.”
This is a very commendable post, having compassion for others in need of financial assistance. I am somewhat surprised by the insinuation that there IS NO accountability. (If one truly believes in God, Jesus and what the bible teaches).
In MY world, people ARE accountable for the money they earn, are given or receive. In a world beyond mine, people WILL be held accountable for their actions. None of us will have any influence how those actions are judged, but by our own actions while alive.
However the money comes into one’s hands, THEY are accountable for it. MOST countries have laws and rules how said money is accounted for, taxed, levied, etc. Improprieties that occur are governed by the laws of the land. Much the same with CSA, sexual (or any abuse), any known illegalities should BEST be reported to handled by professional, elected or appointed officials, trained in dealing with these issues.
To sit on the sidelines and rant about “mismanagement” or “misuse” of money earned by (or willingly GIVEN to) another, to me is offensive and disrespectful of our freedoms.
The ALTERNATIVE it seems, is some kind of oversight where a TEAM, a group of individuals who DID NOT earn, receive or donate said money, gets involved in determining its use. If one cares to investigate where socialism, Marxism, communism or other governing mechanisms are dominant, one can (historically) see the pain, corruption and damage inflicted on whole countries and societies that have had these burdens imposed on them. Some worse than others, no doubt, but all start with the same premise: Some people have too much and some not enough, so let’s US influence the distribution of said money or goods!
While many of the points in this post are valid, sound good, look good thru rosy but unlikely lenses, I fear strict adherence to the suggestions offered will result in great disappointment upon final judgement.
Seeking to destroy the freedom for individuals to manage their OWN finances (earned or inherited or donated) is something I cannot agree with.
Donating money to a “common cause”, charity or non-profit puts one at the same risk of misappropriation as donating to “the ministry”: each are run by HUMANS. One can make their own case as to WHICH human or cause is more “trustworthy”. Actual history does not favor either group(s).
If people were MORE concerned about CSA victims, ex-ministers or needy cases in their OWN immediate sphere of influence and area (personal knowledge of), and LESS concerned about how other people account for THEIR finances, the world would be a much happier place.
As hard as humans try, I doubt we will EVER adequately feed all the starving children in the world, or assuage ALL the pain being suffered in the world by those abused.
Help the cases you have intimate knowledge of, how and when you are able, and trust other Powers handle the unknown or subjective.
Final comment:
“The love of other people’s money is the root of all evil”. Thanks for reading.
This reply is just twisting logic and deflecting from the main point, which is that people (overseers) who have allowed child sexual abuse to continue for decades under their watch, are refusing to use funds that have come into their (overseers’) hands to help the survivors of the abuse.
Also, whatever a person’s political or economic views, the signers of this “Funding for victims” post definitely can’t be said “to sit on the sidelines and rant.” Some of the signers are co-founders of one of the most active funds that supports survivors of abuse (Bridges and Balm) and one signer has been maintaining the Wings website and advocating for survivors for years. They definitely all are walking their talk.
Thx for your opinion.
MY opinion is, you are stereotyping all “the ministry” and “overseers” in to one big ALL GUILTY pile.
This propensity is very much frowned on in today’s woke society where and when stereotypical categorization of non-heterosexuality and certain ethnic groups and even Muslims occurs.
I’m sorry you choose to call such obvious disrespect and disregard for other humans as “twisted logic”. YOUR logic of opining that ALL “ministers” and “overseers” are unsympathetic or are ignoring CSA victims is simply false and very ignorantly presumptive. AND offensive, if not judgmental and shameful.
Get out amongst the real world more often, if you actually and seriously believe your stated position.
Please don’t attack other people’s point of view in such a strong manner – this detracts from the original message
I do not believe I “attacked” anyone’s point of view in a “strong manner”. And I’m very sorry if you are offended by sincere honesty. (I am NOT a Canadian 🤭😔)
I believe your comment supports MY belief that SOME people are simply not aware of the realities of the world we live in. Leading such a sheltered life only adds TO the likelihood of gullibility. (Accepting things or beliefs without truly and fully investigating them for our OWN salvation)
God gave every human individual a conscience, if I read Genesis 2:7 correctly.
I hear you Junior. I do agree with a lot of what you say, however I think you are trying to understand how this all can be a big deal because as you write, or how I take it – ‘this is how normal people and normal organizations or institutions or normal religious or spiritual groups would operate’. I can come to one conclusion on the state of affairs, that we were not a normal people. And in that, it makes more sense to me now that we were not normal, because we the people were fully assured that we were the only people. At least, the only people that were worth anything. So in this perspective through logic’s reasoning, we were an anti-normal people. I think the religiously correct word for anti-normal is abnormal.
So my beef is (and the price of beef is at an all time high right now) that something started to wither in the ‘sensible’ category for me in 2023 when a revelation was made to the people, and that revelation became stronger and stronger and clearer and clearer as the months turned into years since March 2023. Prior to March 2023, I saw things that did not make much sense, but as far as the cash flow of the organization went, I could not have cared less. I remember my dad getting quite disturbed in the ’70’s because all of a sudden a very long laneway into a certain convention grounds got nicely paved. I will spare the detail but at that time I mentioned to my dad (I was about 17 yrs old) not to worry about it. And I carried that point of view until post March 2023. Through those years, to me it was their money and they could do whatever they wanted with it. If a worker wanted to fly first class, I was happy. If they preferred Crown Royal over Jack Daniel’s, I was happy. If they wanted to play Alberta Poker, I was happy. If they wanted to see what they could buy on Yonge Street on a Friday night, I was happy. Live and let live was my point of view.
But then the spirit of Dean Bruer showed up with a wrecking ball. And the wrecking ball got bigger in my mind’s eye over the months when I found out there was ‘no money’ in the kitty so that aid could flow to the victims. At least there was no money for counseling or renewing of the sexual victims of the ministry, and further no money to get any kind of meaningful psychological help for those in the ministry that had deep unresolved conflicts within themselves, creating more and more collateral damage in their wake the more and more they preached about what people should do with their lives. The flow of aid was stymied at every gate and every suggestion that there could be hope of peace if only the aid would flow. But no, the managers ham fisted the trusts and said to the people “Just trust us…we know what we are doing.” “God is telling us what to do.” “He always did, and He always will”.
So I do have this sense that they know what they are doing. Sort of. But I see the bus driving backwards. And I do think it is plausible in the 21st century that there is no longer any need of a steering wheel in the bus. I followed a bus last night and everyone in the bus was seated but looking out the back window at me. They all seemed happy though, so that made me feel better. There was a power unit on the other end of the bus that was pulling and propelling and steering it forward. I didn’t want to watch what might happen to the bus, so I turned off to go visit an old lady acquaintance of mine though I decided not to bother her after all (she has been dead for a number of years now)…but I kind of had mixed hopes that the power unit knew where it was going and everything would work out fine. Still haven’t fully figured out why then I decided to skate board to California, but maybe that will become clear.
And Junior. As far as the co-authors of the article. Between the four of them, I would guesstimate they have two or three hundred years of combined experience in the church. I do not think they rant as you suggest. Call me the ranter in chief instead. And as far as your comment of them being on the sidelines? I can read into that a few things. But one thing that comes to mind is, they all may know something about coaching.
Something else I would like to make abundantly clear to people in the church this morning since I keep getting phone calls with an abundance of silence on the other end. I can only guess they are good standing members true to the form of silence. If only they would try to start selling me duct cleaning, I would know their intent and I could hold my own in a conversation about what I know about ducks. But I hold out hope to all. I wish no one’s demise. But the wheels on the bus go round and round and that I can do nothing about.
And Junior, one last thing. You mention about the root of all evil. I ask the church…do you need to question any further why ‘it is what it is’? Whatever ‘it’ is, the symptoms and prognosis seems to be as a result of reserving the currency. But there is this bold thought in the masses that there is some kind of strength in bleakness.
I am trying to be gentle Junior. Trust me. If at first I don’t succeed…I hear Gorilla Glue works on the fine china. Just a little coaching for all the kings horses and all the kings men.
Thank you for your kind words and thoughts. It seems honestly and clarity does not fit all circumstances, which is normal. We all are individuals with our own individual experiences.
Cherry picking AND blanket-blaming (stereotyping) both give a distorted view, just a PART of the picture. Never a complete one.
Both are a reflection of one individual’s personal experiences. Just my opinion, I certainly don’t expect nor solicit agreement from all, as my experiences and hence, perspectives, will differ from another’s. For me, it is not a hill to die on. Jesus did that already.
I agree with you 100% Junior on your blanket-blaming and stereotyping perspective. We were a people that stereotyped everyone that was not us. We would see the good in others, but we had this notion that they were not as good as us because they did not go to meeting. Our ‘good’ was the best good, and really the only good that had the Holy Spirit attached to it. We would sing that hymn, yet the best men living unrenewed by God, must be shut forever from that blest abode. That sunk into the people like propaganda – the propaganda was what ended up making it’s blest abode with us.
And as far as the blanket-blaming, I hear you loud and clear. I know or at least am confident that there are some serious thinkers in the church, both ministers and laity. Serious thinkers. Caring thinkers. Generous thinkers. Loving thinkers. Would give the shirt off their back kind of thinkers if they knew you needed a shirt. But yet……..but yet…..staying in line and following in step has a grip on what remains. So I ask, how am I to process this evidence of the remainder being all of one mind? The one mind that continues to stereotype absolutely the complete remainder of the whole world?
But I know with no doubt there is a time for everything. And a time for anything. And I am ready for the black swan to appear. Because I know, courage is building in the earth. And the ones that stereotyped and labelled all other classes as common or unclean are building nothing in my estimation. Maybe a nest egg but not much more. What will hatch from that, I do not know.
So please pardon me Junior if you think that I or the four co-authors of this report are blanket-blaming. I do not think you are seeing the truth of the matter in this. Blame is landing at the feet of where it is due. I have complete confidence that some of them are being touched. But they are waiting and watching. But there are others that still are going around the neighborhood and to the nations saying they are the sent one, caring not of any point of view but their own. The black swan will make some decisions for those that are indecisive or being a bit shy. And as far as those that have settled it in their minds that the propaganda is truth, both ‘inside’ and ‘outside’? That is being, and will be revealed in stereo, both in vision and in sound.
Thx for your thoughts and comments. Unfortunately, yours, mine, and others “experienced” judgment really doesn’t matter in the whole scope of things. (If you believe the Lords words in Isaiah 55:8-9)
But each to their own devices seeking peace and comfort.
I agree with some of your points. I expected some disagreement, because of some readers (with limited OR extensive knowledge and experiences) desire to see and hear what they want to see and hear.
This debate could go on for a long time and not say anymore than has already been said and exposed. Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes – enough said. I hope the best for all.
Sorry Junior et al. I must have not been truthful on Tuesday. I went back on my word. So therefore, I can see I cannot be trusted. I said on Tuesday that I thought I had said enough, and then I go and change my mind today. It leaves the impression of certain things…that maybe I am some kind of leaf falling from a tree and blown about by the wind. I disappointed the church one more time…I disappointed their prayers that I would dry up and blow away since I am not connected to their branch any longer.
However, I am still finding a certain blame continuing to land at my feet. True and False are at loggerheads. They always were, forever plus a day, however their disagreement has not been made more public at any time in history as it is now. The disagreement between those two has reached the four corners of the earth in a new fevered pitch.
So I see there is falsity in me, and I question how much is that measure of falsity? It has been a journey – just as much a journey of searching for the measure of the truth in me, but also discovering of the measure of falsity…because I know, or am sure, that if I just measure the truth, the blessings and lightness will distract me from examining the falsity. So the journey to discover the falsity within has been, now I see, an imperative journey. Without this journey, I believe I am left with a false sense of truth within.
So I see in this journey of discovery, that I needed to shy away from the flattery of how good I am. Get myself distracted from my own little lights, so that I can discover my own little blights.
So in this sense, there is a next step in bringing relief to the stricken in the church. Since the church means all the spiritual peoples, and not all the spiritual steeples, then this means all the spiritual peoples. The peoples as I understand that would be on a path of discovery and questioning within.
There is a plan I do believe. And the plan is moving along quite nicely in my estimation. Two plans actually. Both moving along quite ‘nicely’. So my question this morning is, could there be a reason to this point that the leaders have not turned their attention to the victims of religion’s devices?
So here is my request, and it may move this process along a little faster. Could someone influential in the church use a bit more flattery please? Flattery certainly has been employed over the years to progress the plan. But it now needs to be laid on heavy. Really thick like. So lavishly thick. Step this process up to a new level.
And then there may be hope. Hope for the people that I trusted for 55 years. Hope that they would discover how deep within themselves the need of that flattery. I give them credit that they were given the tools of discovery. They just need to rediscover how to use them.
Every day is a good day for me when I ask the devil within, how true do I want my falseness to be? Seriously Mark!
And the guidance of the church says to stay away from the devil – nasty dude he is. Uh huh!
Bridges & Balm and your neighbor Renewal North. Keep laboring together. You are doing a good work. You have the tools to make a difference. Keep the tools sharpened. Thanks for being unafraid, and not bound by the spirit of flattery. I stick with you in your mission. Discern this is not flattery, because I desire you climb the mountain instead of sliding down it on yer derriere.
Will I be more honest tomorrow than I was yesterday? I will ask the Jack-o-Lantern within me a few questions. The pumpkin shell with the light of showing off the missing teeth. Happy haloed ween everyone.
And to the friends in Jamaica. Will see about getting more than just some words to your shores to clean up the mess you suffered. But thinking about you will be a start.
If you can open this YouTube link, you (and David Serra or others) may find this article interesting. I believe it pertains to 3 things discussed so far in this thread. These issues are NOT new or unique to the “2×2 system”. All of humanity, including myself can have these tendencies and they are difficult to overcome: Blame, Projection and Denial. They seem almost to be a natural initial instinct for me.
I believe this expresses some of my thoughts in earlier posts more clearly than I did myself.
Tap the screen, if it opens, it should give you an option to open the transcript and read it. Narrator has a female British accent, a bit hard for me to follow.
I hope in this case, it is OK to post a link, if not I trust the admins will handle.
For the record, this article was written by James Sales (freelancer) and published in the Sept. 25, 2024 of The Epoch Times.
No problem. If any interest I can DM on a FB Messenger or text or email. (Which would require the contact info).
I found the article directly in line with the recent thread of posts, and purely from an “outsiders” view. An easy read.
Or any can look up a Sept 25, 2024 Epoch Times, and look up “Psychological Regression and the Garden of Eden: Myth, Morality, and Modernity” written by James Sales. Or search it out on YouTube.
Thanks for your response.
I am seeing the link now. All good.
Yes – I do think there is something to this Junior. Projection and denial. Both on the same side of the same coin. The side with the inscription of ‘our’ church on it. And it is funny that it seems to me every ‘church’ has their own coinage. I call it Inscription Currency. Scripto-currency for short.
So we, or I should say how I was raised going to meeting twice a week, used projection and denial as a fundamental means whereby I could be ‘proven’ ‘right’. If I could work on a commitment within myself of proving someone else was wrong, then I could prove that I myself was right. Through this endeavor then, I would be successful in proving all the others in the same ‘church’ were right also. So it was a life’s work – that of proving everyone else outside was wrong. This was identified in the church as success. It was a convincing way to lead about one’s own life.
As Mandela’s memoirs illustrate, it can be a long walk to freedom to deal with the projection and denial of an opposing viewpoint that said that Adam and Eve were white, through and through. Kind of like the church I am trying to understand more than ever – how we all thought we were the ‘white’ ones through and through. In other words, we were successful in projecting to all others that they were the ‘black’ ones so-to-speak. We were the only ones that were found in the good part of the bible….the others were in the bad part of the bible. I am getting some uneasiness about this saying we would hear now and then, and that is ‘where will you be found?’
So needless to say, I do not think I am out of the bush yet. Absolutely everything I say (or write as the case may be) is my point of view. I am getting to realize this. And every ‘church’ has their point of view. It is very hard getting this urethane of religion’s point of view off my hands. We had this point of view that the windshield of our church was the only clear one. That urethane of supremacy kind of needs to wear off over time. I am coming around to the point of view (point of view = belief) that windshields are not needed in order to see clearly.
But I am not getting too upset about offering my point of view, even though it could be nonsensical. But yes, it very much looks like projection and denial on my part, in keeping with how I was raised and what I was taught. I had this point of view that if I denied another in the ‘appropriate’ manner, then that meant I was good little Tommy Tucker in the class of self deniers. So I will make an effort in projecting back on the projectors. Now as far as me denying their denial, I just don’t know what to do. If I had the capacity or influence to encourage someone to use their own noggin, then I think that maybe I have accomplished something in life.
So what is my point of view other than faith in my own belief!? I say, people should not follow my point of view. People should not be pulled along by my faith. People need to get their own faith. Get their own understanding. We heard from the speaker so many times that we stand alone before God. But the underlying message so that we could be proven ‘right’ was “you must stand with us, otherwise you will not be found right”.
If one overseer could read himself into the book of revelation, and have the auto glass shop remove his cracked and stone-pitted windshield…then I think it would go a long way in him seeing where he is going. Because all the overseers have a lot of kids in the back seat counting on them. And the oncoming traffic is beginning to be a bit horrific. But oh well. I suppose sticking the arm out the window and flipping the bird will be affective somehow in getting everyone else turned around and going the ‘right’ way.
And I do think there may be this misunderstanding in the ‘church’. Misunderstanding or some type of schooling that taught the people that angels can’t be in the driver’s seat because they don’t have a license.
So going back to the book of revelation, I do think, or rather my point of view is that the Roman priests didn’t take that book and eat it up let alone digest it like maybe they coulda shoulda woulda. And then we came out with this hymn with the words ‘follow me, come follow me’…and we may have followed right in their footsteps. Don’t follow my thinking – heaven forbid I would be cast in with that lot.
Overseers. Remind me again why we needed to count the people? And cast out some of the children?
Just my competing point of view. Competition is good. Especially so the monopolies don’t slide into this slide of regression. Monopolies do that sort of thing you know Junior. And there is some sharp thinking out there. But fingers crossed they are not successful in getting dinosaurs once again to populate the earth and follow them withersoever they go.
My opinion is in closing, that I think the ‘church’ needs to move on past the concern of whether the rain will hurt the rhubarb or not. My influence is scant in projecting my point of view to prompt another to not worry about the rhubarb and consider thinking about greater unknowns. Weening oneself from the haloed mams is tough sleddin’. I mean sleds with a motor and some gas in the tank. But there is no money behind my point of view, so don’t think I will be successful in selling it.
Orange ya’ glad I am admitting that I am at the least not God Junior?
We are what we are. Individuals before God. It’s only His approval that is important, I believe. Carry on 👍🏼.
Thank you Junior. I honestly am trying to understand and give everyone the benefits of my doubts.
I do understand that you are not well acquainted with this system that the system’s people talk about on here. But I am pleased that you at least stick up for the people within the system that are not responsible for this condition within the system. I do think that any system over time can fall into a condition of disrepair and disrepute if it is not maintained with honesty and integrity, especially if the system has a bloated sense of self worth. And I do honestly think that many people over time can permit themselves personal examination to figure out how they fit (past or present tense) into a system that slid into a shadowy form. The shadowy form did not happen quickly, but rather, using a bible term for this process, it waxed cold. There are cold waxing processes and there are hot waxing processes. I cold wax my skiis, but never did really ever get my head wrapped around the need for hot waxing anything.
Moving on, or carrying on like you frame it, though you do not really know the church intimately, maybe you could shine a light on something with your objective viewpoint from the outside looking in. My question is, and you can just provide possibilities on how this could happen to a system. My question is, how does a system with a total and complete bloated sense of self importance end up with a good percentage of the people that cannot feed themselves. And I likely used the wrong phraseology when I said ‘good proportion’. I likely should have said an astounding proportion.
And then my next question is, what happens when there comes a time when this feeding assistance dries up or becomes unavailable. Do the people then not dry up also? Were the people not taught how to feed themselves? Was this a waxing process, whereby the people were untaught more and more over the passage of time, that reliance could be built up more and more over the same passage of time to depend on another temporal hand to feed them?
And then I ask, are you in favor Junior with the ones in the system that hold the bricks and mortars in the system putting their stamp of approval on this type of process where there are cheques for the great but few balances for the not so great?
So in this, I am in a quandary today. I do not know whether to worry about those that for whatever reason find themselves in a place whereby they have not that ability or education to feed themselves. Whose fault might this be? The people’s fault, or the authorship of the regimen’s fault? Ahh…maybe the fault lines will tell. What I believe is, when things start to rumble along a fault line that appears in the earth, no one stands up pretty on the one side of the fault line and hollers over “sucks to be you over there on the other side”.
And the overseers and workers may stand up in the Orangeman’s Hall and subtly tell the people not to feed on Mark’s doubts. They are as a fart in the wind they may imply. Feed on our power instead they may say.
Breathe deeply Junior and pray for us. And I might be asked to carry on some more. The contractions are getting closer together. I have delivered calves before while a teenager, but the hooves poking out tell me something got mixed up inside the heifer.
And the heifer kicks and tries to turn away. Realizing not she can’t deliver this monstrosity of unknown form, shape and proportion on her own.
It seems you dwell on this “system” and other individuals more than your OWN soul? I would suggest you change THAT, if I’m not being too presumptuous. (Or even if I AM 🤷🏾♂️)
…..and the next day, the eighth day…I am shown…that my faith is not all for not…and my time is not squandered when I am shown what to do, and have no clue how to do it and it does not matter how much I rip myself apart to do what I am asked…when the Potter gets a little help from His Friends…that to me is a good day. How now am I to question His work and how He does it on the wheel of life? All I was asked to do was to help spin it. He offered to remake the work after March 2023, and some of the people said, “Na….I am good just the way I am thank you very much!” It kind of cracks me up to think of the smugness of it all.
Bear up now little/smaller ones and don’t be fearful. There is work to do but it will not be a picnic, because some big kid with a form of spiritual bravado will want to bully your tucker box away. Let the dead bury the dead.
Now is 4am and I will go back to meeting now. We will see if I wake up for my morning coffee. If I do not wake up, I have already sent Him my resignation.
Why those in the driver’s seat could not have born up a bit and skinned their knuckles a little on this one…I do not know. Or maybe I do and I just don’t want to admit it.
Can anyone else take their watch out of their pocket and tell me the time? I am totally fine with opinions on the matter. But unless you have taken your watch out of your pocket and looked at it, I might make some estimations on whether you are bluffing and whether you were the one that wanted to burrow some more time so you could put another brick in the wall. Pink Floyd at his finest. But there certainly was a bit of nuance when he sung “Hey teacher, leave those kids alone!”
Did HE ask you to “help spin it”? Or who did? 🤨 Spinning one’s wheels DOES take someone in the drivers seat…..
🤷
Actually Junior, it goes like this. If I was King Tut and wanted to start a new religion, I would say I was being led by the Holy Spirit at all times.
But since I am not King Tut, I can’t say that. And I know it is a burden on people to try the spirits, but that I have found out does not seem to be my problem. Why it is so difficult for people to get their own relationship, I do not know.
…and I would like to make something clear on the wheel of life that the vessel is on. I have no inclination to tell Him how He wants to make me, but unless I show some ambition to get out of a state of static pleasurely peace, then the wheel does not spin. And what ends up on the wheel is a glob that all He can do is poke His finger at or hammer away at it, trying to make it into something that resembles something worthwhile.
And Junior. You mention “It seems you dwell on this “system” and other individuals more than your OWN soul?”
Would you care to chew on that one for a few minutes?
No. Read your own musing again, and chew on them. Any response from me should be unnecessary.
Blaming others is not important to me.
Oh dearest Houston! I think we have a problem.
But we think we know what the problem is. Thirty nine percent of the engines have been switched off.
Stand by. We are working on firing them back up now!
Okay Junior. I read my own musings, again and again.
What you had mentioned, or at least the way I took it was that ‘I needed to be more concerned with my OWN soul more than others’. And it kind of hit a nerve with me. One of those funny bone nerves, were it hurts like the dickens and everyone else finds it funny.
So I was not necessarily making any assumptions, but it was a bit revelatory in the possibility this is what is going on in the church. Where the group is concerned only with their own soul. I am not sure where they got their example to be like this, but they got their example from somewhere no doubt. Actually, I do fully understand this, because at one time, I also was quite enamored and taken up with my own soul. Now I go back and read the red letters, and I am not sure how I could of had that oversight.
It is almost like there was a wall around us as an organization, and we really could not see what was on the other side of that wall, and quite honestly did not give too hoots about it because it was only our souls that needed to pampered.
So I thought to myself as I sometimes do, that Junior had a point on why the victims got no relief on the other side of the wall, or providing they stayed quiet on the inside of the wall and did not make a fuss, then they were permitted to stay on the ‘right’ side of the wall.
I was thinking today about heaven, and I kind of understand there will be no disappointed people in heaven. Meaning, those disappointed that someone is there that they said in their prior experience would not be.
And thinking of those that feel their own soul is the most important, or the soul of their group, or maybe even the soul of their nation, now that I have stepped back and inspected both sides of the wall, my personal opinion is that this philosophy is the antitheses of how Jesus managed his life and how his life ended.
So Junior, not that you are thinking this way, but I do not want you to think (but absolutely honestly truthfully happy for you to think however you want to think because I do not know you), I do not think you can presume that I have no care at all for all the people, or I should say ALL the people in the 2×2 church. That would be quite presumptuous of you. Did you ever have a brother Junior? I did. We fought at times, but I never disowned him. Sometimes one does not know why another does not give up easily, but pampering some people only got them accustomed to wanting more pampering…even when it might be a brother. But I am confident, I also like some others pamper when a poke is needed, and conversely poke when some gentleness is needed. But possibly if I don’t get so taken up with my OWN soul, I will then find the wisdom or insight to know the difference. For now however, I have a hunch people are not seeing what is going on on the other side of the wall.
Thank you for your response. I in no way meant to be offensive to or judgemental of anyone. Charity and concern for others is a good thing, likely even a necessity.
My point is and was, my OWN soul needs to be at peace before I can bring peace to others. IF and when I overcome disbelief, THEN I might be of help to others.
(disbelief is partly thinking God needs my help in implementing His plan)
Not in the so-called “way” but in Jesus Christ.
It is not okay for you to decide (or anyone else) who has “too much” or “too little” money. But, this post isn’t about the political situation in our country. It’s about the fact that the workers are not being good stewards. The excessive amounts of money SHOULD be being handed over to Bridges and Balm and other groups that are caring for the victim/survivors that THIS group is responsible for! But, that goes right along with them not following the scripture about anything…so, what do we really expect? They don’t care about the people they harmed, and are expecting people of the world to pay for the outcomes of their sins and crimes. You are also throwing the responsibility of what these people have done, onto others who had no part in the crimes! That’s sick thinking and there’s no excuse for it.
OK with me, but should YOU be “deciding” what other people should do with their money, if I am forbidden to do so? 🤨
I appreciate your thoughts, judgement and righteousness, but again, I see stereotyping and blanket-blaming in this thread. I don’t believe there should be boundaries to charity.
What the workers are doing is money laundering and they would most likely get prison time when this investigation is complete and there is a investigation going on here in North America
ORSID also received funds from their overseer but they are told not to acknowledge/admit/discuss for legal reasons.
What is ORSID?
2×2 ecconomics is reversed money laundering –taking clean money from membership and turning in into “dark” money far out of reach any legal transparency.
Systematicaly moving large sums donated funds into a non-transparant void were non-identifiable actors can tranfer it in a non-traceable fashion to serve non-defined purposes outside the reach of any approved accounting principles.
I personally dug into this issue after our expulsion and made contact with a couple of “trustees” and higher ranking ex-workers with access to “significant storage” accounts. I didn’t uncover significant misuse of these resources but the dishonest denial of their existence is a clear moral issue.
I am ashamed of not asking legitimate questions at age 17 and through adulthood, even as a licensed legal professional. Shame on me. It was a fear of being seen as faithless that prevented me. Again, shame on me.
Dishonesty about origins, history, practices, doctrines, wrongs, and finances are such obvious red flags. I vilified my parents for asking such questions, and I answered ignorantly and untruthfully when they and others asked good and appropriate questions. I am so thankful I could apologize to my dad just before he died, and to my children whose lives were touched by the ripple effect emanating from my choices. I’ll never be ashamed of unquestioning trust in God, but I find it incredible that I put such fealty in human beings.
Edgar is right – it’s not money laundering. Rather, it’s a lack of responsibility on the part of the fellowship. Thanks to the four who explained to us what we should have always known about.
Again, shame on me.
David R Serra
I think that for most of us, our integrity was assaulted. I didn’t recognize that until I was in my late 40’s.
One of the unintended consequences of Bridges&Balm and Renewal North is that they offer a small way to “redeem the time” by donating to them. We may not have asked the right questions in the past, or stood up for the abused like we should have, but this is one way to help make up for that. It feels good and right to donate.
This makes me so angry. I rebelled against the 2×2’s my entire childhood; I professed under pressure from my parents at age 13 but I resented doing it and by age 15, I was not going to meetings. My parents were truly some of the members who had already had dysfunctional childhoods and had professed as teens so by the time they had 6 children, they were well and truly brainwashed by the group. It has taken a lot of research and reading for me to feel like I’m not going to hell simply because I don’t profess. My 2 oldest sisters are in it – on their own terms – and they both have that “better than you; feel sorry for you being such a sinner” attitude even though they are more worldly that I am!!!! Movies, fake nails (natural-looking, of course) – mascara, lip gloss – just that bit of vanity that still looks natural. Liquor in the coffee, bottles of wine hidden in sock drawers. I cannot believe how they still fear the workers more than they fear GOD. Ugh. Enough said. I try not to think about it.
Many of us I think have a lot to unpack and unravel amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I apologize to any including yourself if I am making it difficult for any that are trying to unpack their things and I make it look simple. It is not simple. And it takes time. And we try to climb the same slippery slope we slid down. Examine each thing you unpack and determine if it belongs to you or not. If it does belong to you, keep it. If it belongs to you and it is broken or despairing, investigate patiently how you can fix it or bring it back to health.
If it belongs to someone else, I think we have a few options. I will not go into all these options. That is where reading and digesting more than one book is needed. Because if it is only one book, it does not explain very well how to relieve yourself and return the belongings of a narcissist. That one book seems to say different things about taking unto yourself that baggage of a narcissist. One place it says that you personally need to deal with their baggage. Another place it says that the narcissist is to shoot the other person that does not accept their baggage. There are implications in the book also that all must become narcissists to enter the kingdom of heaven. We were told not to dare get confused with the book. Everything was in black and white we were taught. Black and white? And we were supposed to not get confused?
Anyway, I apologize to all for my impatience. I honestly am trying to unload my narcissistic tendencies into a rubbish bin. In that way, I can somehow bring everyone hope. Even the Great Gatsby’s of the 2×2 church.
Some people are wondering why I don’t speak much about love. I don’t know. Maybe because I don’t know much about it?
Or maybe because the audience that is needed have not graduated their faith class, so that they could have moved forward with hope, such that love would be a meaningful subject matter to them.
Do you Great Gatsby’s of the church; do you understand so little about faith that you would discount and discount and discount (compound discount – the antithesis of compound interest) the true benefit of paying attention to what a child has been trying to teach you this last 31 months?
The spirit of the Great Gatsby’s. Quite a handle.
There are these words found ‘Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written‘.
I took a widow to meeting for 9 or 11 years. I don’t remember which number it is right now. I didn’t always agree with what she said, but that was fine. But often over those years we would be driving along and she would say those words to me about ‘the world not being able to hold all the books…..’ And I would think, ‘what does that even mean?’ It is not even rationally possible. It is just nonsense in my mind. So I will just keep my hands on the wheel and manage the throttle and kind of hum along with the idea.
But it just came to me this morning. One of those ‘reliving life moments’ like. And I thought, my old friend that has passed on now maybe saw something that I thought was a bit of odd thinking at the time. Great Gatsby’s. Do you realize your whole knowledge base is one book? Evidently it appears that way, and evidently that one book has been where you have sunk all your faith. One book. A book written over the centuries prior to Constantine the Roman Emperor. Then the Great Gatsby the Emperor Constantine had a brainy idea that church and state would be two good ingredients to put in a blender and make a smoothie with it. So religion’s constitution was born.
So one book, compiled 2000 years ago where you get all your knowledge including how to view things like the internet and accounting principals, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera… and you have this feeling that any understanding gained in the universe since does not apply 2000 years later? Gatsby’s. It says there would come a time when people would be going to and fro and knowledge would be increased. Did you look at this as a negative? I cannot hardly think you do, since your ministry is going to and fro in the earth and walking back and forth on it. I have heard over the years ‘Jesus (or Christ I think is more appropriate now), the same yesterday, today and forever. You guys think this means the bible instead? You guys making the bible equal to Christ?
Lesson 101 for the Gatsby’s. Faith. Faith that pushing out into the deep and taking one on the chin for the children will not slay you. Faith that creates the butterflies in your stomach. Not those kind of butterflies of infatuation however. Not the infatuation of the size of your Roledex. Not the infatuation of you holding the keys to secrets. Not the infatuation that you can walk down the streets of the young and figuratively shoot whomever you might please and your followers will not care.
The Great Gatsby’s in the way. Is something, maybe just a little starting to hit home? Or is home still an illusion to you, so there is nowhere to be found to hit? Gatsby’s! You held all the power in your thumbs. Is the limit of your faith how many could be brought into submission under those thumbs?
Gatsby’s. I have faith in you, though it seems you have little faith in yourselves. Get through your lessons on faith. Sure it may be just a refresher, but seems like it is needed. Then you can have hope and give me hope also for you. And then we can talk about love’s lessons. Because from my viewpoint, something there has missed the mark.
Listen Gatsby’s. Listen. And if the still small voice has evaporated in you, then listen to the still small ones under your thumbs.
I think it’s funny that your sisters think they are hiding their alcohol from the workers…they go through every drawer and cabinet and closet when staying in your home. There’s even a post on the ex site where a female lost her discrete tool that she kept in her draw beside her bed and they also took some of her underwear from her dresser. She asked for her things back, the underwear showed back up, but the tool didn’t – lol!
henoffour – now that is a post that I believe. Workers must be bitter and depressed and sexually deprived and not necessarily in that order. It’s not normal for human beings to go without human touch and intimacy; especially in their 20’s, 30’s, 40’s. I would love to find a ‘true’ church but I just don’t trust any.
Thank you very much for revealing this. I’ve heard about this through other sources, but this is a lot more informative, with actual proof. I cannot understand why they are so reluctant to help those in such a dire need, especially those who have been ruined by those within the church, even those in the ministry. I no longer attend any of the meetings in this religion. Because I kept hearing that the people aren’t perfect, but the way is. How can this be a perfect way, when the leaders in the ministry kept hidden the awful corruption of sexual abuse for decades? (God only knows how many). I don’t ever want anything to do with this religion again as long as I live. It has caused me much grief and tears, and someday those who were responsible for this will have to answer for it. Thanks again for this article.
Now that we ALL know that Leslie Whited has passed (not sure what he passed….maybe a gall stone?), I do wonder if the church will blast him into heaven also. Part of the people will give him the last rights of his Jekyl, and the other part the last rights of his Hyde. He loved the Hyde so much. It was near and dear to him. To the ‘church’, he was a respected ‘church’ scientist cooking good things up in his laboratory. Buddy decided somewhere along The Way that he had to wear his Hyde garment in public at all times. A dollar store effort to be counted in with the virgins.
A miserable man, that orated with a smile on his face like not many could orate. Any that heard him speak, myself included, had an inkling he was a sent messenger of light and we bow wowed down to him.
Poor Leslie! Head of his class.
Heaven forbid that a worker would take my funeral (not expecting any to line up for the ‘opportunity’), and say I was a good man and imply they knew where I was heading. None of them have a clue though they might think they are so cluey. In the meanwhile, I don’t have a clue myself where I am going. All I can do is try to be faithful another day. And the whole religious world has a view on what that word faithful means. In my view they may not have questioned enough.
In the meanwhile, my view is the church needs to remove their windshield from their religious Humvee. It is covered in mud. Or the next option is to turn on the LiDAR, and look at their screens. At least let off on the throttle a little until you get your bearings.
Mark the workers put Dean Breur in haven and everyone knew what Dean was doing
True enough 9882kb. I am disappointed with myself. Disappointed I did not discern their swagger as they ushered some into heaven, and did not discern their gait as they marched others into hell.
The handmaids in the church are not talking. I suppose it is a tale not to be told. Feelings not to be expressed in words.
If you don’t have the courage and strength and faith to stand together…then try standing alone. The message can be more powerful that way.
It is not like I am asking you to shave your beard off. Just stand up alone and be real; then your message may be heard over the din of the boy that wants to dominate your spirit.
Mark, easier said than done. From the dawn of ages and most certainly in ‘the truth’ women are taught that they submit to the men, their husbands. Back in the 1800’s, if a woman’s husband died, she didn’t inherit the home or property because it was illegal for women to own property, which angers me to my soul since I’ve always worked full-time and raised children and came home from work and cooked supper, did laundry and cleaned on my ‘days off.’ I watched a program not long ago where a police detective asked a mother why she didn’t report that her boss had molested her daughter. They were part of a circus. And the mother said “and what? Watch the courts pick my daughter apart and make her look like she had asked for it by something she wore or something she said? No. I handled it my way.”
Yes amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. Man has been laying the blame on woman since the dawning of day. Or at least since the bible started flying off the shelves in the book stores. And I think the women are getting a tad tired of it. Tired of the man trying to manage the woman’s private parts in the name of God. Outta my wheelhouse kind of stuff.
But I cannot give all women this credit. Some women have become extremely advanced for whatever reason, blasting the doors off religious evolution and having a devious reason for having certain other men and women on a short leash. And certain other ones that are quite vocal in the shadows and whimper in the sunlight. Maybe some counseling would help that. Then there are certain women preachers in the church pumping up the man’s standing for reasons not to be divulged.
Yes, always easier said than done. Always told my children and then told the people in the workplace that needed some encouragement – life ain’t easy, and the sooner a person figures that out, the easier life gets. But as soon as it gets easier for a person in this type of way looking for the truth, someone at 37 degrees Celsius with some spiritual ambition pulls back the veil and looks for the next challenge to test them.
Are the people moving toward the veils in life or cowering from them?
Dear Workers,
This letter comes to you from an unlikely source. A source outside the encampment.
A source with unlikely love. But love is a measure. I could not really tell what measure it is, but definitely a different measure according to different metrics like whether I know you and many other things. Some maybe I have not much love for, but nevertheless a measure of care.
I realize, and likely you did too that you are caught between a rock and a hard place. Easy for me to determine who is masquerading as The Rock in the present circumstances. And maybe the other place is not specifically hard, but they have been taught in some way to be rigid. Rigid in their disposition, rigid in their thinking, rigid in their persona, rigid in their point of view, rigid in their opinion, rigid in their own truth and rigid in their own way.
And I realize, and likely you do too that we were all conditioned to have one voice…that same voice. But is every one of you the same person? In the privacy of your own heart, are you not in a wee bit of anguish? A wee bit of uncertainty maybe?
There was one voice though when revelation came to all of us. Most everyone moaned in their own personal way when that revelation hit us. When it first hit, I was working in BC at the time and a couple of the friends were talking and they said ‘it was just so-and-so worker put his hand on someone’s knee’. I quietly thought to myself, ‘ya, I have full confidence there is more to this story’. I did not want to create a stir and interrupt their moaning, so I gnawed my tongue for pain.
And we were all told to watch. Likely you even yourselves over the years spoke to the people to watch. How many of you are watching? It looks to me like you are waiting for sure, and you all said for the people to wait. But it appears like you are waiting to watch. Why wait a more convenient day to watch?
And if you watch, just don’t watch one thing. If you watch just one thing, it might be something that is not moving, or moving at a snails pace. Snail’s paces right now are an anomaly…though things are not moving along very quickly inside some encampments. And like the old saying goes, a watched pot never boils. Watch many things. Because there are parallels happening in the whole earth. Parallels in this case mean a mirror image. Two lines drawn, running parallel and going in opposite directions. Two lines, one arrow on the end of each one. The law of increase vs decline that you have maybe taught over the years is being brought to light in rapid fashion.
I am not sending this letter snail mail, because I do not think I have that much time left. And I am not emailing you because I know that I am now classified as spam in the church. I honestly am not trying to sell anything any longer, so no worries. Hard to sell stuff outside the encampment.
So workers. You were prompted to start watching in March 2023. You have been given every opportunity to watch since then. Why waiteth now? Silly word that word waiteth. Oh well, maybe poets need to do that sort of thing at times to keep the rhythm. So speaking of rhythm…are you walking to the beat of someone else’s drum? Is that the easiest way and course to walk? Or did you think that God wanted you to buy a drum from some organization, so you could all hammer out darkness with the same beat. You see, I think this was overlooked in our encampment. And that is that people could be individuals and still get along.
To the workers that stood beside me when I was a bad boy. I knew you did not give me any passes. Why so many monopoly passes now for the players? Why such a big house on Broadway and Park Place? Roll the dice if you will. Game the system if you will.
Workers…this is children we are talking about. Discern in your spirit why each individual worker were so interested in the little children. Lined up in the front row, willing to answer questions, anxious to raise their little hand…’pick me, pick me!’ And then I ask, why the Sam Hill do you workers break out in a rash when you are questioned even with simple things? Inner unresolved conflicts is my prognosis, causing spiritual eczema. How long do you want to itch my friends before you get to the doctor? Because the itchy skin may just be a symptom. I can only assume you are all itching. But maybe it is only the way you are holding the free issue drumsticks.
best regards….Mark
PS. I have no doubt, any of you that care to watch will receive this letter. But a stopped watch is right twice a day, so maybe I should have no concerns.
….a few days hence (funny word that word hence) I had this thought that acronyms are so common and can be frustrating to people and get people mixed up. So I wanted to clarify an acronym in my letter to the workers. The acronym in this letter of BC does not mean ‘before Christ’. And it does not mean British California. It means this time British Columbia.
Regardless, the children are waiting. But I suggest stepping it up a bit if you want to be part of the solution or somehow be recognized as removing the children’s vulnerabilities. Because if you don’t get into the equation, someone else will take your place in this. And just a little awareness thing, but what I see is vulnerabilities are shifting sides. Possibly your first principal that you preached was your greatest vulnerability; and that is the thought that you had no vulnerabilities. The old-tyme workers recognized their vulnerabilities so they had to go with increasing faith. But after WWII, as the dollar bill became more plenteous in the church, faith dwindled in concern and as a consequence, the worker’s vulnerabilities increased. It is fine that you feel the friends will shield you from all these vulnerabilities (we had a term for it…it was referred to as ‘supporting the workers’ )…but if the friends vulnerabilities in these matters has increased also, what are you left with other than a compounded vulnerability?
Workers! If you don’t feel it is your place in the group, or your place with your companion/pardner/accomplice/side kick….(golly forgot the new term we use for companion) to be found accountable to the revelation, then find your place as an individual. I have a hunch, and it is just a hunch…I have an uneasy feeling that riding shotgun into heaven might have been some mix-up in the conversion of Hebrew to Greek.
So workers! Whether it is/was the designer dress, or the designer ballcap, or the designer jeans or the designer flak jacket that you feel is making all the difference in your understanding, then take a moment to bow down your ear and listen to what the children are whispering to you. And don’t be shocked if it sounds a bit crass coming from a child…they might say to you ‘my daddy sez you should git yer blankety-blank butt in gear’.
The drapes are being blown open on everyone, so some of the young fellows in the ship might want to be conscious of that as well. With some prompting, thought I would mention this.
……what I might be saying is I see a hill being prepared, and all some people want to do is buy a new pair of skiis when their old ones still probably work just fine.
….a suggestion for people to start to believe; just not in the power and benefits of the hypocrite. Leave the grave clothes of that teacher in you behind.
Hello Folks (and friends too…can’t leave my friends out)
Questioner in Chief here. I have a few questions today that I would like to share. And I do hope that my questions might leave you with no answered questions. Know of a surety that some prayers have been answered, so I leave you with these questions I was shown in prayer.
So, I question, why do the butcher and the baker and the candleschtick maker in the church all stand hand-in-hand together with one accord quite heartily on the butt plug? And why do two of them use their right hand of fellowship to aim their religious bazookas at Pharoah’s son standing on the bank of the river Babylon? And why are they putting faith in the reeds on the bank of the river to shield them from Pharoah’s son’s care and compassion and searching eye for the whimper heard?
And why do they have this ship-to-shore wireless instructing their department of justices (DOJ – previous term was overseers) to encircle Pharoah’s son?
And why did the DOJ of the 2×2 church pass the Disinformation Act into the parliament of the church? And people in the parliament in the church are expecting a vote soon on the Disinformation Act, also referred to in some circles as the Anti-Information Act?
And why do the people feel this Anti-Information Act will enlighten the people? Can I ask what people are seeing in this Anti-Information Act? I do think there is a term for people that buy into these sorts of acts. Disciples and apostles of diverse and sundry drafty ideas and concepts in the way to sell their truth of the book, the singular sent one that I took my handy-handy label-maker and now label it The Art of the Deal.
The adjective describing those that like the thoughts and intents of this new Act eludes me right now, or else I don’t have the courage to write the word, making sure I am both religiously and politically correct on Wings for Truth. But I do think this ‘inclusion’ and ‘equity’ thing has got a bit out of hand in the 2×2 church. But I cannot go against the ‘church’ and convince those that are ‘spiritually’ astute about the Act that teaches anti-information will somehow at end of day include the people in any of the equity.
And why do those in the tubby ark in the River Babylon not hear the spring mating calls of the frogs in the Euphrates? Are they too loud in their own singing of their old song? Still singing their classic rock? Can anyone tell me or convince me their rock has aged well?
A thousand questions bar my way…and a thousand victims bar someone else’s way…someone else that wants to be Dictator in the Truth. (aka Dick Tator) Dick taut dat duh tots needs to be smashed as taters on his Sunday platter after he smiled while he guzzled the fruit of the vine. Don’t sit too close at the table…when they said ‘look at us, we are going to make a splash in this world’, take them seriously.
All in fun. But maybe not. It all depends on how one interprets the book of Elevations in the church.
…sorry friends, I understand there is one thing in my manuscript that is throwing people off and they do not understand the term. The term butt plug is not a term in the lexicon of the church in North America. In Africa it means the tub stopper.
Otherwise, everything else I wrote today should be pretty straight forward to all the expert theologians in the church.
But while I am thinking about it, I understand the victims of sexual abuse by the clergy in the ‘church’ over the last two thousand years (or 2025 years using the calendar of the 2×2 church) are broadcasting a new gospel to the four corners of the earth. Broadcasting to those that figured they would inherit the Vineyard if they could just redact the names of the victims on the Last Will and Testament and they are praying to their god they can find the butt plug in the murky waters of the River of Babylon. Here is the gospel they preach to the overseers from the last 2000 years. Simply stated they preach…”Get over it”. “Just get over it, okay?!” “It’s really no big deal Billy Joe Jim Bob.”
And oh yes. One other thing. I know that Billy Joe Jim Bob of the 2×2 church says no way their ‘church’ is connected to Rome. But everything now is getting connected, and the dots are joining up and the puzzle pieces are coming together. Rome trampled on Jerusalem for 42 months, now Jerusalem as it appears is looking for the recompense of reward for Rome. Rome is in trouble somehow…and the masters of the 2×2 church will say when it happens ‘It looks good on them”.
Beware when some angel yanks on the cord that joins all the dots. And don’t no one be surprised when the army the ‘church’ had the notion of that would come and save them, it may look different than the one they had in mind that was gendered from their own microphone and gavel. If one does become surprised all of a sudden, it might just mean they mixed up the blessing and the curse. They said the clergy was their blessing and the victims were their curse. And the congregation put dirt on their head and called it holy ground.
And some in the church…notice I said ‘in’…are hesitant and concerned about their forefathers and family that followed this way, and believed it to be the only true way. Ask some questions of you know who. But as I understand it, they will not be held responsible for what they did not know prior to March 2023. After March 2023? I can only assume the gospel of excuses would need a big facelift in heaven. Should I pray for Peter Peter Punkin eater of Rome?…or Joseph’s younger brother of Jerusalem? Or neither? Or both? Or who should I pray for? Joseph’s tears were the first to be bitter twenty years after he was sent out of the house. The brothers stuck to their story about Joseph over those 20 years, talking BS to their father or skirting the truth. Maybe deep down, they knew the butt plug would give way some day. But somehow Joseph convinced his brothers, half brothers and half sister that God meant it for good. You know what I call Joseph now? I call him a ‘badass’. An amazing good badass at that.
I kinda love you all, but have no way to get y’all the message. Maybe, just maybe y’all are not famished enough yet. But Potiphar’s wife was a piece of work, convincing her husband that he had the only true key to her chastity belt.
I’m still angry that Leslie White died without spending one day in prison for his crimes thanks to all of the brainwashed followers who protected him.
I get what you are saying amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. But if I may, I will take the liberty to make a suggestion. Please be patient with me in my novel ideas.
Leslie White chose the sickness in the marriage instead of the health. He chose the rich in the marriage and piddled on the poor. Leslie White…is no longer with us. ‘Us’ meaning both them and us. Leslie rest his poor miserable conniving soul grabbed the mic on a regular basis and told his followers to wash their brain of any knowledge and information and understanding and wisdom that would discredit the wielding of his own Peter principals. I suggest everyone tune in to the Peter Principal if not already aware. This principal fits this orgynization to a tee.
Leslie White needed some spanks. Some different kind of spanks than the type of spanks that he felt near and dear to his heart. It is evident, he liked the kind of spanks that he felt brought his heart joy. A sting that he and his brothers knew about (and apparently enjoyed) and shared their secret of what to preach next to pull the divine wool over the eyes of the people. The kind of spanks metered by the waiters in lederhosen at the Hofbrauhaus in Vegas. I have witnessed many men over the years lining up with either those waiters in lederhosen or the Kellnerin in the bodice and skirt and apron – the man’s choice. They always grimaced in joy. It was always outta my wheelhouse kind of stuff, but I kinda got my own jollies watching it. How could a man buy into this sorta sordid doctrine of pleasure?
But here is the thing. Leslie is gone. Done. Kaput! Dead as a doornail. Driven into the jamb of the door by his bestest bud’s hammers. The sill was level, the jambs were plumb, the hinges swung the door freely. I am guessing Leslie is clicking in right about now that he should not have been so organizationally orgastic over the spiritual blood of the victims that he and his best buds were putting on the lintel.
And here is the thing. Leslie did not even need to be pushed over the threshold. He fell over it all by his lonesome and his hands broke off. His best buds stood him back up time and time again, I suppose having some kind of faith that some life would get breathed into Leslie’s Dagan. That is the only power that was left in that idle of Leslie, idling his own idol, and telling the people that some day he would win it big on the America’s got Talent show. I am confident, he is singing some praises now. But quite evidently, he does not know the words, so likely he can only hum a few chords of ‘Thy Will be Done’.
Anyway amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. What I see are some that are washing their own brain, washing their own heart and digging deep into their soul to let their heart and mind cleanse their soul also. Washing out the white-wash. Poor Leslie White Wash. He had to let go of his hands of fellowship…or more rightly spoken, they broke off for him.
If only Leslie could speak from the grave! For crying out loud folks…Leslie IS speaking from the grave. But the still small voice apparently is not to be heard over the din of the Gong Show.
People! People! People! Folks. Friends. Neighbors. Ex lovers. Listen @2x2ville.com, and @2x2ville.uncommon…if the overseers and the workers do not hear by now…then elders show up at the hearing.
Poor Leslie. What a dork! Preaching his dorkiness that people should not be bitter and they should lather on their mercy and compassion and forgiveness all over his body that he said represented Christ. Well I have a hunch his body now is being anointed with bitter herbs of witch hazel. A different Hazel than the one I am related to. That Hazel I see in the night sky is riding the up-escalator. And the press corps of the 2×2 church doesn’t really have a clue what is going on in the back channels, and they have no control of the OFF switch of another’s spiritual escalator. And I am talking about the back channels of reality right now. Not the back channels into the priestly garments.
Come on people! Humor me! Humor me that this dream is only a nightmare in the church with no name, riding ‘cross the desert…hoping for no pain…and if there be any pain, praying and praying that the victims would take it instead of them. Prayer answered – long ago. But today is not long ago. If the spanking in 2023 did not get your attention and get yer hormones raging, then buckle up. Third time a charm. We were all told that jewelry was strictly verboten ‘in’ the church…inside the walls of the ‘city of light on the hill’. Why is everyone showing off their spiritual Pandora’s bracelets now? Is it because the box was opened and they are working overtime to flash their charms?
Oh well. Keep preaching from inside the box then. Listen Overseers…listen. Listen to this Mark instead. Because your mark might be going for a slow (in man’s terms) and easy (man’s terms) dump. Digesting the book of Revelation might be the exlax that is needed. Some of the bitter herbs that you have been prescribing for everyone else in the world, especially the victims will work too.
Moving along….but you may need a spank if you tell your sheep…your very own sheep…that this Mark is screwed. Overseers come DOJ in the church…look out on the fields. The fields that you told the Master you would lay down your life for and be accountable for. Now tell me I am bitter and don’t give a shiite about you. Or you can have your way if you want, as you say you know so much about the shores of Galilee.
Amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42! As I am sure you have figured out, most of this manuscript today (portion of novel) is not meant for you. You have figured most of this stuff out and do not need to read it. I am befuddled in my mind though is why we all read ‘The Novel’ over and over and over again for years upon years and did not come to the understanding that it is one of the most cleverly devised books of all time. Amazingly clever. Astoundingly clever. Stupendously clever. Horrendously clever. But take away this book from the priests and cleavites of all the ages…and their power evaporates. They then would need to rely on the Holy Spirit…and that was problematic to them in herding the sheep and getting the sheep by the ears and holding on to their ears until the sheep cross the finish line.
We wanted to be the most fabled church, and I think the people got what they (also me past tense) desired most. The iron boats go as the mariners all know….
A little story, now that I got my novel diatribe out of the way. I had lunch with a cousin of mine that came to town three or four years ago. Prior to Dino Boy’s send off with all his best pal fighter jets flying over him. I did not speak in meeting and only listened, and my cousin asked me why I did not speak in meeting. I told him ‘because what I was shown to say, people would not appreciate it’. He replied to me, “…maybe you need to speak then”. My friend…kinda more than you bargained for? Sorry! Canadian here apologizing for absolutely everything. Apologizing that I thought everyone on the other side of the church wall were just a bunch of spiritual twinkies.
And to my good cousin and his wife (and your sister and her husband…and your mom and dad…none of them sissies) with hearts of gold…sorry for taking you so often in my writing to Niagara Falls, the falls that I am looking for the tap on to shut off. And speaking of Niagara Falls…thank you for the visit in the night sky last night from the Falls. I often think of how things could have been if I was more aware then as I am now. But life is a process, and every gnarly step in life is for a reason. Don’t pamper the workers if you can help it. Help them through the gnarls, but no pampering. Now is not the time to offer the shambles of silence that keeps them now from the truth of the matter. The children are waiting for your two voices too. I know you two are not just two lilly pads, anchored to the bottom of the River of Babylon, just floating around looking pretty.
How many eunuchs and how many virgins want to call it all nonsense, and tell ‘their’ people it is all nonsense what Mark says. Fair enough, some of it could be nonsense, maybe much of it. But think about bestie Leslie – because evidently he thought that grace and the blood of the victim would fix the spirit in his pants and wash away what he covered while on his knees in life time. He controlled the Christ within and he knew it. And the Christ within did not kick back with a spanking for him. That was expected of his friends. Expected they would speak up and say to him “Listen here Bucko”. Evidently Leslie never had any friends in the meetings or otherwise. And never ever had to endure a pineapple being shoved up his butt in lifetime…that he would know what it feels like pulling it back out in the privacy of his own study. Hope now though that he gets a palette for barbequed pineapple. Along with the cinnamon and brown sugar that he seemed to crave in life, prior to his graduation from the university that taught him the art of the deal breakers. Clever mother he was.
Mark, I typed up a long reply but it disappeared so obviously I wasn’t supposed to post it. The bottom line is, I am just one person, one victim of a cult called ‘the truth’ which is full of great people / followers who just want to be saved.
Thank you amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. If you have time, I would like you to write it again and post it for me. And do not worry about getting it exactly as you wrote it before. This happens to me all the time, and when I write again, it flows again in a new way. I take nothing from how it flows in a new way the next time I write it.
Technically on it disappearing, I have had two things happen. Not that I have the diagnostics of it right, however if I write it on my phone, I have had the page refresh automatically and my writing disappears. Another thing that happens on my laptop is an anomaly and it could be related to a webpage time-out or refresh. When I hit the send button, it comes up on the top of the screen saying it could not be sent. I thought at first that it meant for me not to send it also, but then realized that the spirit was not taking over the electronics of my computer or internet. Though there is a spirit that I have noticed that has been quite religious in exploiting the vulnerabilities/back channels of the software code and electronics. And some interesting emails from inside the walls that my virus checker has flagged as being devious. I would assume they think as their own gavel thinks that the church owns the only gavel on the planet, or at least the only Gavel sent from heaven’s glory. They seem to sing this hymn, “From heaven’s glory, from His radiant throne above, came our beloved Gavel, so we could force His love….”
Anyway, getting off topic here, but if it comes up with that icon on the top of the screen saying “too bad so sad”, just hit the back button on your browser, it will show your writing again, copy the writing to clipboard, open a new Wings webpage, paste it back in and then send. It will go that time. I used to get this notion that something that hindered what I felt needed to be done was the Holy Spirit wagging His finger at me. Now I see it as Him just testing me to see if I was serious or not. The DOJ of the 2×2 church loves to wash the cold feet. And that is their prerogative…that is one of their principals of herd control that there is no legal issue in the land with.
Thank you for the information. We NEED TO KNOW THESE THINGS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO HEAR. Thank you. Thank you.
I know I have babbled on a lot, (another term is Babylon) but I need to pass on a question to the church this evening.
My question is: Did Leslie White really need to be relegated to the rubbish bin of reprobates at the end of his time?
It goes back to my previous question; did Leslie really have no friends? A friend that could tell him he was sliding into uncharted territory. Was there no one in the church that could have saved him? We talked so much of how we (meaning the workers/church) were the only ones, or through us being the only church that could save a person, but what did that mean anyway? What did it mean if we ended up letting this guy meander into spiritual morbidity?
Now if people tried to sit him down once in a while and told him to straighten up and Leslie was too arrogant to listen, fair enough. But arrogance is something that grows over time, and generally because it never encounters any opposition. So here we are, facing a possible fact or reality. The reality that the leadership and the teachership of this fellowship really has no legs to save anyone, especially in the leadership itself.
We thought we were so smart, and in ‘fact’ the only smart ones. I think we skipped over first principals and graduated immediately to religious rocket science. Good on the whole shebang of us for having this measure of ‘awareness’.
Now the church can tell me the truth. What is the value of this perceived spiritual leadership when they do not even know how to save themselves?
Wings can put this on a more appropriate page if I have the wrong one.
….just talking to myself here, so no one needs to listen in. Just kind of going back and forth with myself trying to come to some conclusions. Helps to talk with myself at times. Kind of like a little bantering kind of thing with the two voices competing in my head. One voice wants preeminence, and because it is the stronger of the two voices I know I need to put my guard up. Maybe though Leslie should have been delivered a little sooner to the devil of a judge and endured a little heat a little sooner so he could have got his little ship turned around? Maybe allow himself to spiritually hang himself a little sooner in his walk to understand how he had stretched his neck pretty thin with his savings?
Sing a hymn now Mark and settle yourself, and try to come to a few more conclusions. “Not unto men I labour, not unto men I pray, But in Thy sight Lord Jesus, I walk the lowly way; And unto mine own Master, I either stand or fall; What men have said about me – That will not count at all.”
I wonder why…oh so many things I wonder why. I wonder why the inside of the House is saying that the outside of it is trying to tear it down? Is the wrecking ball not from within? Within the house that they said they had charge over, but in some way they think they own it also? What is their interpretation of all the statutes standing in the house? There are limitations to some of these statutes…but some statutes live forever.
Could the master sheep herders in the House of the 2x2s not turn their attention to the children Mark? Maybe a moment of silence at least for them? A moment of reverence? To the ones that are fallen? The brave ones? And realize the ones that are fallen may have been for the saving of the house? Why the wrecking ball? Why do the masters now turn their glaze and gnash their teeth at the words. Victims of someone else’s words? …or victims of their own? They languish in the secrets of their own hearts. Languish in secret because they never taught Leslie how to have a talk with himself.
I am guessing Mark, that the Potter never made a worthwhile vessel on the wheel with a long neck. Why do all the masters of the house now want their freedom, but peepee on the fallen soldiers in the church? Those soldiers fell for a cause, no Mark? And was there a reason and purpose for Leslie to fall from people’s good graces in the last moments of his life? Can the lesson be learned Mark, or no? Am I a disciple of the voice that remains small, or the voice that wants to be the preeminent teacher and guide? Do I have the nerve any longer to call the lesser voice of the child false?
There is one way to solve this Mark. Send for the child and let the child speak for himself or herself. When the clergy said the love of God was so simple, how on earth did they get so mixed up in so much complexity to solve a simple issue and waste the church people’s money on a 2×2 grand jury? Grand! Just grand! Let the child speak…for once.
Right before my eyes…real time.
Now I question Mark. Why did the leaders want a title showing on their business card? Does the business card tell the whole story? But history has a way of writing itself. Interesting how history can write a story. I wonder if people notice it is 2025? I think some of the leaders do. There may be some catch-up happening in the house. Some are peddling headlong wildly chasing after more religious fillies…others holding their horses and starting to back peddle in a measured way.
When I said the book was amazingly clever, I did not say that it wasn’t also a wee touch more clever than the clever ones.
Have a good day, okay everyone? And have a chat with a child today. They may teach you something you did not know. Just let them speak. It might sound like some gobbeldy gook, but it will be from the heart and nothing complex about it. Take it as truth. Truth because they have not got their big voice yet. Remind me again of why religious man thinks the child comes from the loins of a man?
People! On the sea of humanity! On the sea where a spirit rose up ions ago to hold dominance over people’s understanding and insight! Rise and speak! Speak that your voices would be heard over the now distressed spirit for two millennia now has frolicked in the autumn mist and held sway over the mariners. Rise and speak, and do not be afraid, do not be fearful. Or tell your inbred fear to get behind you or stuff that fear in your back pockets. It is time, time to speak the message that has been given to you.
That spirit that rose up as doministress in the ‘churches’ on the sea of humanity in now going on it’s knees. Finally she has decided it is time to pray. Told to get on her knees in the corner with her favorite doll. Her doll that she said would lead the people into all truth. She is being revealed in splendid fashion, real time before our very eyes. She knew that truth would be revealed one day, but she held off for as long as she could. But she knew there would come a day. She was not stupid and she knew how to read. But she is running out of whitewash in her paint bucket and her hand is getting tired with her handy-dandy paintbrush to cover all the writings on the inside of all the walls…the writing that she said in the churches was just graffiti. She had the ability to convince the people the writing on the walls was just propoganda and did not represent the truth. She convinced the people to drink the whole glass of milk…but she was clever. Just a little tincture in the glass and the people would be healthy, wealthy and wise.
Rise up, the time is now for the people that care, the people that are watching, the people that are seeing. And the workers at the front of the tent…you seem to be spellbound. For some reason you do not perceive what is going on. Because you embraced the doll, and you embraced the doministress spirit because it held power for you. You felt the power, you knew the power, you enjoyed the power…and that power gave wings to the truth of that doministress that rose up from the sea so many years ago.
But we are in a new day. And the ‘church’ says, we will quit smoking tomorrow. They were given power to keep the habit of smoking. Religiously smoking to provide a screen. Smoking out the voices that said that their dolly was not fully truth. Smoking out those that sensed the tincture in the glass of milk but could not necessarily put their finger on the chemistry of that tincture. They just knew there was a tincture in the milk.
Stand up people. People that have only sat on their spiritual laurels for millennia, the laurels of a name…the name that represented One, but the Dolly wanted to be included. She said One was not enough, and man needed a help meet.
Stand up in the congregation. Now is the time for you to speak. To the saving of the house and to the saving of the laborers. To the saving of those that owned the microphone for 2000 years. Now is the time to stand up and lead them to safety. Don’t be shy, and the message does not need to be complicated. The message can be your own life’s story. The message can be the journey you have had, how you have seen some things…and you had this little voice within you over all these years…and the message said something was not adding up, and you could sense a smoke in your nose that for some reason was not agreeable to the little one in you.
And the message to the front of the tent can be very simple. Very simple to the saving of their souls. The message can simply be…”you have made an oath to the constitution of heaven…that you will not follow illegal orders’.
The spirit of the chieftain of anti-lawful is being shown in the 2×2 church and for the church in all it’s splendid color and pomp…real time in spectacular fashion…but the church says, “nay brother, but what I ate yesterday, I will eat again today.”
I can see people standing up. Starting to speak, starting to have the courage to write. People that did not have much more than a few memes (gems) under their belt, are now finding the words. The words and the courage suppressed for two millennia.
Stand people and speak. Workers listen now. To the saving of your own soul. Yesterday has come and gone. This is a new day. And if you think today is yesterday, then carry on. But it just might not truly be honey that was in the carcass of the eater.
The falsity is being revealed…because their falsity is being put on display. Now observe and see – their falsity is the truth. The child is starting to win. Dolly did not believe the child would hit back some day. But I do not think that is fully truth. Dolly knew the child would hit back one day…and she probably knew it would likely be somewhere around Y2K.
….and some of the people say I am being harsh. And some of the people say ‘this sort of thing happens in all the churches’. Uhuh. And I wonder why. And some of the people say, “Nuttin’ you can do about it.” Uhuh. And I wonder why.
And the people say that the writing is way way beyond them. Uhuh. I wonder why.
But beware, this thesis is just my thesis. Everyone needs to get their own thesis. Their own thesis of why the people stopped at the milk. Their own thesis of why the children only got the crumbs that fell from their master’s tables. Your own thesis. Because meeting up one day with the spirits of understanding and knowledge and wisdom and passing Him someone else’s thesis to prove the credentials of your own understanding might gender the questions: “Did you not know that you had the ability to move beyond the paps that were shoved in your face?” “Who told you that you needed to stay in the kitchen barefoot, yielding full obedience to the kitchen?” “Why did you feel you needed to plagiarize someone else’s spiritual understanding, and pass me someone’s else’s thesis?” “Did you not know I gave you the talent to write your own thesis?” “Did you not know that I could teach you?”
I have been around the church enough in my life, and travelled the world a bit…and spent time with enough friends in the church to know there was some serious talent and serious IQ …but yet, evidently many never feeling a need to tap the depths and move beyond the milk. I wonder why.
And the leaders in the main streams of religion with their very own tables in their very own kitchens had the power and knowledge of how to refine everyone else’s gold, but yet did not feel the need to go to night school to learn how to refine their own gold. Why might this be?
The people, oh the people have so much understanding. And the people are satisfied. The people are happy. Sitting around the tables and wondering who’s gold….who’s true gold, that they can pillage next.
We are a chosen generation, in case the people in the church did not notice. We were given opportunity to get a glimpse into the depths. But there are two depths. And the people that are not watching chose the depths of the clergy. Set up so long ago for a fall before our chosen eyes. The generation of our eyes was chosen.
Victims! When you flip a crumb of insight up to the priests sitting around the table, let’s hope beyond hope that they see the twinkle in your retina. Twinkle twinkle, little star…let them wonder who you are.
And the priests and cleavites in our church…or should I say ‘your church’…say they had the only 747 that lifted off from the shores of Galilee after Jesus passed. That ‘gift’ of the 2×2 church may not be such a gift after all.
And oh, just so people don’t think I am only turning over the stone of my nativity, discrediting the fundamentals of my childhood teachings and passing to the extreme other side of the isle. But here is a question: when many of the historians say that Jesus was just some made up individual…can anyone tell me why the calendar of today started moving forward about that very time of the record? If his name wasn’t Jesus, what was his name then?
Spiritual winter is setting in, but the cold blooded frogs in the Euphrates are starting to move. How can that be? But the strings controlling the marionettes are slowing down. That makes sense.
The shoe is shifting to the other foot now. I hope the clergy changes their song soon, because I think it is time. Evidently though, some more crumbs need to be flipped up from the kitchen floor.
And the real mothers?! And the true mothers!” The ones that see the need to gather the children under their wings and not the clergy? There could have been some goofyness in the man’s thesis. Put a pair of shoes on. God will allow it. Because it is time now for the man’s travail.
Clergy…breathe deeply now. Breathe in…breathe out. Void your own kingly thoughts. Feel the pain now of delivering today’s truth! Get up from your table, walk out of your kitchen, take your shoes off, and feel the warmth of the earth. Let the soles of your feet experience holy ground.
Or stay at your table and and let the child die within you. Observe the seasons. It may be full term. You can decide whether you want the child in you unborn or not. Priests and cleavites in army boots…opportunity knocks once, yea twice…
Observe the white dove…observe the eyes, and observe the wings. It may be the gift you needed.
Clergy! Land that powerful puppy of a 747-2×2 back on the shores of Galilee…and take up the dove. The dove with a twinkle in it’s eye. Let the dove crash you, instead of letting yourself crash the 747.
Well that was another crazy night for me in the Land of Anti-Oz.
Question. Can sheep suffer whiplash? Or should they be permitted or allowed, or even encouraged to suffer whiplash? Sure, maybe it is fine to talk a lot about the other side or the far side, but a human I think needs to get through this life first, no?
Maybe a little gem this morning? Gem anyone? Here goes, for what it is worth to anyone. It may be worth diddly, so toss it aside if it has no value. ‘You either defend truth or you abandon it’. Confusing Say for the elect?
Here is the thing that I am seeing more and more as the nights pass. We were a chosen people. Chosen for a very unique purpose. Chosen to show the whole world something, to be an ensample for it. The Boutique of churches to show the world, not only what perfection looks like, but what perfection is. The spirit of the word from the platform was that we were staring into Perfection’s eyes. But we the common folk failed miserably, and the spirit of the message said that meeting perfection’s ask would likely never be possible for the common folk.
Hang in there victims. Hope is on it’s way. You have taught me the signs to be aware of and taught me to discern the spirit of the false preacher that has kept you bound. Bound for 2000 years plus a day. The false preacher has now decided it is time to make hay…real hay. And lots of it.
Leaders of the sheep. It has been difficult for you come to terms with an unmasking. I do feel for the plight. But a few pimples here and there should not be such a concern. Sure, warts can also be unsightly, especially the ones on a person’s right nose. Sometimes it is a matter of having the physician cut off the right nose. Or even cut off a little of the left and a little of the right one that a person could be somewhat balanced. Sometimes, you just need to try a few things.
But leaders. What really is a leader? One that leads, right? But is a true leader one that leads because he wants to be out front? Or is a true leader one that supports, and says to those they lead “What can I do to help you?”
Now, for some reason you all have been resistance to revisit some things. You have spent your life and savings telling the people to revisit this and revisit that. Week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade, century after century.
But one thing that maybe you could revisit. And it may keep the sheep from suffering more severe whiplash than is warranted. Revisit the ones that were alive back in 2023, the ones that were willing to wash your feet and look for a way out where two ways met. Look them in the eyes and think about where two ways met. And please try not to think of this vision of where two ways met for only one or two minutes. And when you look into their eyes where two ways met, you may be looking into the eyes of true leaders. I am confident, it was not all about the children’s safety at that time, but your safety also.
And now you leaders say “The other voice has grown cold, and they do not care any more!”
Who let me into this Boutique anyway, with my coat that does not fit in. Oh hey there neighbor…I can see you are a leader from what you are wearing…mind if I give you hand with your basket? It kind of reminds me of an Easter Basket. Maybe it is what you have in it. It is looking pretty full and looking quite heavy. Here there now. I will fetch another basket for you. One for each hand. Kind of balance the load a little, no? After we are done shopping at the Boutique here, we can go have a little visit with Issachar. Maybe he is up to having a coffee with us. I think he knew something about spiritual scoliosis. Because he likely knew that ‘your’ burden is not the only burden on this earth.
And oh, just a little mention dear leader. It is fine you wanting your independence when you grow old, but if you don’t call for help, you may fall and break a leg and no one will know. And because no one will know, one thought leads to another…eventually forcing you to think that your neighbors don’t even care.
And not too sure about the ones in your house that cannot see you. They must be busy, and no time to look out the windows. Maybe they are watching the Late Night Show, wondering what it all means. Or maybe they are reading Robert Frost’s The Road Not Taken…where two roads diverged in a yellow wood…and trying to come to grips with Mark 11:4.
Interesting day when all the Boutiques find out that they were not the only ones selling thunder.
It is Flyday everyone. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. See?! You think I can’t speak both languages, and don’t care about my neighbor? What do you think I am? Some wizard that only knows one language? Before I learned to communicate with the other side of the wall of partition on the other side, I thought my easter eggs were painted the prettiess. Prettyes. Prettiess. Pretyess. Flip spellcheck. Let’s go with most georgeous. Gorgeous.
And before I go, I just thought I should clarify something about where two roads diverged in a yellow wood. Go heavy on the yellow. The cure for spiritual jaundice. Gotta run. Still in the work for a living. A workin’ man I am, and I have been underground…and swear to God if I ever see the sun….. Good ole Rita. A coal miner’s daughter. Sounds similar to a false preacher’s daughter. I am convinced though that man can not live on coal alone. Anyone hear the message in the wind?
Is this still a web page of more than Mark S.? It seems as if everyone has joined a different group and Mark S is the only one left. I’d just like to know. I’d like to join a group where others share thoughts.
These comment pages aren’t designed to be a discussion group. There are numerous good Facebook groups which offer open discussion.
I’ve posted some of these resources here on WINGS previously, but am repeating it here just in case it might be helpful for anyone who is feeling isolated in this crisis, and in need of community (as I was for a long time after first hearing about Dean Bruer’s abuse in March 2023). This list includes both resources for survivors of sexual abuse and for those who wish to support survivors, and resources and platforms for people who are considering their spiritual path after learning of the abuse and corruption in this church. Some of them are primarily information and therapy or funding resources, others are personal stories, and others are for discussion:
There are also some interesting Reddit discussion boards that can provide a sense of community. Searching for keywords like “2×2 church” brings up several.
For example, there are some very thoughtful comments at https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1iqy17o/have_you_ever_attended_or_visited_the_2x2_church/
Mark S would likely enjoy a Substack account where he could post his essays for appropriate interaction with his readers rather than taking Wings away from its mission.
I like that advice Invective. I like the idea of throwing in the towel. I have run out of ideas of how this situation with the victims has been sanctified to flourish in a certain way.
And Wing’s mission has been a mission for sure. A very long one. Mission impossible to this point. Impossible for everyone that has tried.
…I know that it will be very difficult to write my stuff/nonsense/BS/curious questions, and just put it in the waste bin, because I do think that Wings for Truth was a group of people with the most enduring and one of the most public place and face ever for this particular and peculiar ‘church’ with a little worm in its brain that would not die. There were no limits to where the seeds of Wings have been broadcast. But the broadcasting of the seeds of the 2×2 church? The last 20 or 30 years their limits have been shrinking.
But something will prevail @Invective, because that something, whatever that something is, is gaining momentum.
Hope the inner sanctums don’t hate me too much for writing so much and not giving them room on the page to speak. But the more they preach on the inside of the walls, that those that are on the outside of the walls are the enemy, then a taste for the bread of strong dislike will become normal, more normal and tasty for the people than it was before.
Maybe enough broken vessels on the outside of all the walls…but we will see. See what happens. If the water can slosh from one end to the other in Lake Erie like it did the other day, then I am sure it is capable of sloshing in the bath tub.
I need a rest. Need to be quiet. Thank you @Invective for telling me it was time. Many things I cannot see alone.
One person, one friend posts ‘keep writing’ and it goes back to the Mark S show. lol
…the question I ask this morning is, can the church not come together and somehow learn to communicate? Is communication not a fundamental principal in spiritual welfare, maybe the most fundamental principal? Is it not only the fundamental principal of spiritual welfare, but also the fundamental principal of what holds friends together? And families together? And organizations together? And nations together? And the world together?
But as the 2x2s, we were so confident we were not part of the world. Can we change this word ‘world’ to ‘earth’, so that we can have a much less myopic view of the difference we can make in the big picture? If we were not part of the earth, were we somehow convinced we were part of the Jetson Family, jettisoned to heaven and somehow we bypassed our earthly habitation? We were a good people for sure, but blimey…way too good for our own good I think.
Was this part of Dan Hilton’s gospel when he for some reason got vaccinated with a phonographic needle on a broken record of his ‘heaven on earth home’ sermon? Flip, I only heard Dan speak a few times in my life here and there and heard the same sermon every time. What did Dan know about a heaven on earth home? I personally think he was homeless in his thinking, chewing on the same piece of beef jerky, day after day, year after year.
And if things fell apart because communication fell apart for whatever reason, is communication not the basic tenet that brings things back together again?
I am happy, and actually expectant, for the whole church or the whole family to tell me I am the world’s worst communicator. But life is too short, no? Too short to wait for things to get to the far side before we learn how to talk to each other? Regardless of how difficult the conversation is?
Why so much faith in the church that there needs to be division? Division must come, and we are going to be the bullies that bring it on!? We are going to fit into God’s plan, one way or the other we must be saying. Is this the fundamental principal of the church that we had faith that there would be division, so we would help God in sowing those seeds and speed the process?
What organization returns to health after an unhealthy situation when the ones that are in authority, or have a little more authority than the others, or those that deep down they want to be king or queen, go sit off in a corner and sit down, cross their arms and pout about their feelings being hurt and thinking the others are not seeing how hurt they are? How hurt they were that anti-authority offended their authority. How hurt exactly do they want to become?
It is Thanksgiving and what exactly are we thankful for? I may be delusional, but it appears to me like many are so thankful for division. They knew Division would come, and did they welcome him into their homes? That is what the people around the table seem to be bowing their heads and giving thanks for, no? Anti-communication has become king, no? Or maybe more rightly asked, has anti-communication in the church not always been king? The clergy said to the people, ‘if any around this house is going to be communicators in chief, it is going to be us!’
Am I the biggest turkey this Thanksgiving? All dressed up and stuffed?
Does the church that wanted and elected this division and do not have a sweet clue about communication from what I can see, and say the other side is the one that knows diddly about communication…could they not, in this new day, invite the great Communicator into their homes? The great Counsellor of communication? And have a little counselling session on communication? And maybe the people would permit Him to be the teacher for once? To let him for once stand in front of the class and let Him get the people back to first principals. That he could teach the foundational gospel of any organization or family…or even two that walk together in the way? Sure walking together is fine, but pretty lonely world for the two if they don’t talk. Stone age kind of relationship stuff, no?
Can someone tell me the truth? Is a one sided church with any hint of authority that subtly forms their gospel to the people that if there is going to be any communication, it will be those in authority thank you very much? Is there only one way for them? Their way or the highway? Their highway is the way? Is that the way they have narrowed it down? Show me a church where preaching flows one way, and I will show you an authoritarian body…thinking all the peons need to stick the big cheeze’s head onto their feet so they know how to walk the perfect way.
Sounds like a grilled cheese sandwich put in the sandwich press to me. Especially when the head falls under the feet. And I read about grilled cheese sandwiches put in the sandwich press in the book of Revelation. But maybe I am reading too much into what happens when the children were to be seen and not heard. And according to what I see in terms of the readership, the mass of the church did not even have time to read even their bibles let alone the writing on the wall. I believe the writing says, there will come a day when the authoritarians in the churches would be turned upside down and they would no longer be able to tread on the souls they wanted to bring into submission, those that would challenge their authority. They may be turned upside down, treading on heaven now.
And does anyone know, and does anyone care? Care to think about why the new pope made his first visit out of Rome…and he decided to visit Turkey first this past week? Why is this? Why did he not want to revisit where he grew up first? Does he maybe see something? Could it be that he felt a need to go back and revisit the first seven churches in Turkey there? Have a little visit with them to see where Peter Peter might have veered from the lowly way? Could some progenitor of William Irvine in the 2×2 church that designed his own pumpkin in the likeness of Peter Peter’s pumpkin, some progenitor with his head not under some preacher’s foot, follow him to Turkey to see what he is looking for? Like my elder would often say when something went missing, “Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most!” Ex-elder I should say. I still love him, even though he told me I must have been stuffed up. And dear leaders imply I am the dark meat. Stay away from dark meat they say, because it will cause spiritual cholesterol. But is it not backwards, and is the white meat of the spiritual turkey not what seems to be causing spiritual cholesterol?
My point of view from where this turkey stands? I think that the greatest Counselor of all the earth is being shat on, real time before our very eyes. And the churches, the churches run by the authoritarian governance systems, seem to be still saying as they gather around the table, ‘it is all in the dressing of our authority’.
I am not sure the leaders in the church are such good business men after all. Neurosis caused by authoritarian psychosis…that eventually leads, if unchecked, to people believing that narcissism is the food of kings. Then the people think…if it is good for the gander, it must be divine providential food for the goslings also. At least this has been the conventional wisdom of the 2×2 church until now. But maybe they could come together and talk turkey.
Leaders! Or those that are only leaders in name. Or those that take on themselves a name that makes them a leader in name only. Do you not have the patience to explore what might be in someone else’s past? Do you think the history books should not be resurrected? I can hardly think you think that. But yet you think that. And when you explore someone else’s past, as long as they are open to exploring it themselves, can it not benefit you in exploring your own covered past also? I am wondering if the pope sees something in this hour. Maybe he is seeing that it took a bit of cooking the books to get the chief pumpkin lined up with the Chief Cornerstone. Peter Peter’s wife might be getting a little curious too about her husband’s accounting principals, and maybe realizing her husband was the only single source of truth about the balance sheet. And heaven forbid the Auditor would show up.
But yet…they seem to think they could keep the Auditor at bay in the dark for ever. Or at least until they died and went to the mansion in the sky. I am guessing though, that Scripto-Currency does not work in heaven. But what do I know? I could be confused. And maybe I do not see right. Climbing up some other ladder that all their best buds are all on. Hoe boy! That ladder better be anchored at the top where they are all standing. We will see though. Not much we can do about the adverse wind that is arising. We can hope the clothes line does not break.
And Sunday is wash day, no? But frik there is a heavy load on the line today. Ask me how I know what it feels like when getting to the top of the ladder to get the line back on the pulley/sheave with a full load of laundry on the line, and the line decides to break at it’s convenience. Nothing like a little whiplash from the pole to launch me for a few seconds of glory. Free as a bird until I met up with the earth. I did not think it was fair for my sister-in-law to laugh out loud because she was watching me try to help her. But the poor laundry that came back to earth. That is the part I found funny too. But I got over it. At least the laundry issue. My neck still hurts now and then though.
Are the people prepared? Prepared for launch day? Not lunch…launch. Good ole Fergus. Used to say that speaking on Psalms was like eating a quick lunch. Not sure where he was reading. But guessing he knew something about quick lunches.
….and later, a little later on Wash Day, I say to the leaders in the church that are getting some blowback from their own microphone, from their very own gospel they have preached for years, telling the people they themselves laid down their lives to be fools for the Gospel sake…but how the kings turned it into a gospel that was all about them.
Now tell me dear leaders, that Jelly Roll is some kind of fool. Tell me his tats will keep him from being recognized as a messenger for truth. Tell me he has not known some hell, that he would be given the strength to stand for the children. Tell me! Oh how I want you to tell me. Tell me again of how your love, your such beautiful love of your organization can somehow trump the love of this guy with the tats. Now tell me you can compete for this guy’s love for the tots. Remind me. Please remind me brother how your care must be stroked by the congregation.
Leaders, eat your heart out on this one. And if you don’t eat your heart out, I am sure someone will come along and eat it out for you. Like a child will in the last tally!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geNXIWUa3uE
For heaven’s sake ministry. Listen! Look! Feel! For crying out loud – please try to see this what is going on soon! How long do you want to delay in seeing the child is pointing the way for you! If you don’t want to listen to this chorus, then go back and sing Ken Paginton’s hymn first. And try to dig deep, quickly like for the spirit of a child. And if I don’t have it right that Ken wrote this hymn, then it does not matter who wrote it. Just don’t wrench it from your hymn book like it appears you are wanting to do…to get a little more life out of ‘your’ organization. Why the 2×2 church thinks their nation is the only nation to be loved… but never ever left home, and say they are so so phenomenally knowledgeable about the foreign land they speak of.
MARK I truly enjoy all your writings that you write on here along with hundreds of others who read them….keep up the writing….thanks
Thank you 9882kb. I will see what comes. Inspiration is an interesting thing. Words come when inspiration comes. I did ask for the tap on Niagara Falls to be shut off a week or two ago.
But I have been thinking about this thing we call our testimony. I am just wondering if organized religion has something not quite right about the testimony thing. Organized religion, in order to survive, needs to make certain that the ones in authority always wear clean testimonies. I do wonder why a testimony needs to walk around saying “clean, clean”. If their vessel is an oil tanker full of oil, what is the big deal about their testimony that they feel they need to rejig it to make it look clean? Do we need to walk around pointing people to our ‘clean’ testimony? Does a testimony not speak for itself? What does the commercialization of spiritual matters see in elevating our testimony and run the risk of obscuring an empty tanker? Is this a Tide’s in, Dirt’s out type of thing? The tide came in 2000 years ago, washed the clergy’s testimony and floated everyone’s boat in the bargain? For 2000 years.
But the tide is going out now. No one needs to believe this. And those in the organizations that put a price on their words so they could levy a spiritual tax on the people say they were looking forward to the great falling away. Hallelujah they say, a couple hundred or a couple thousand out of our original 125,000 (or whatever the 6 digit number is) …they fell away. And besides they say, we have way more beach to play on now then we ever had before.
Workers! Maybe just a little tiny peak!? A little tiny peak behind the clean testimony requirement of all the commercialized brands of truth? To realize that maybe Peter Peter, then subsequently Wild Bill Irvine bought into something that they did not see the end from the beginning? Though the jury in my mind is still deliberating on whether all of Peter Peter’s and Wild Bill’s harems, some are maybe now starting to see something untoward. Untoward their brand of truth.
And the bathers on the beach say the children that moved to higher ground are delusional and will get their comeuppance. The whole world is lying they say, because the spirit of anti-knowledge and the spirit of anti-understanding in the ‘church’ has always been king, and our king they say will live forever because he has lived in our hearts for 2000 years. A very strong king. A very wise king. A brilliant king. The smartest some people say. So smart in fact, and so strong in fact, that he was able to crush the testimony of a child – the child that did not coddle the king’s wisdom and testimony.
Pouring bleach on the testimony just might not clean up the inside after all. Just my point of view from where I stand. My dad was a perfectionist and I used to say that was his own worst enemy. But he never walked around telling people he had a perfect testimony. He may have believed he belonged to the perfect way, but those that bleached their testimony surely gave him some heartburn.
Leaders with a commercialized religious/political message! Why do you keep the spirit of knowledge and the spirit of understanding from the people? Somewhere along the road, where two roads met in a yellow wood, did you chose the easier spirit of fear? The yellow one? So that you could ‘prove’ to the people that your testimony would fit into the business? The spirit of Peter Peter convinced himself that a quickened fear of the people would be the better testimony. He realized early on, that that would sell his word better.
If life wasn’t so interesting, it likely would not be worth living. But the congregants seem only interested in one or two things. A pretty testimony, and friends around them that know exactly what to do…to bless the bleached whale of a testimony come hell or high water. But the spirit of knowledge, and the spirit of understanding is standing up in no uncertain terms. And the spirit of organized religion is standing prouder than ever, trying to whack down insight with the spirit of their gorgeous testimonies. It seems the vessels are empty, just from my empirical point of view. If I need to whack someone over the head with my testimony, then to me it becomes suspect. Suspect that I might have internal cataracts.
Leaders with the one red cheek. Waiting patiently I see for a child’s testimony to redden the other? Things can’t be that bad for the inside traders, are they?
What if perchance, the king happens to be a queen? Then what will the cohort of pinnacles/steeples do? But the playbook has hidden gold. Hidden for 2000 years, hidden from the pinnacles. Ouchy stuff for the pretty testimonies leading the way, holding down the heap.
Have a good day tomorrow everyone. And don’t be frightful of dribbling a little grape juice on that clean shirt or clean dress. That is life, and you can only live it once. Or whatever. I am on my second life now, so investigating these things has been interesting to me to teach me the benefit of not living a lie, all dolled up and pretending I am the sweet one with a saviory testimony. Maybe boys and girls, let your testimonies get roasted a bit? Tried with little fire like ya’ know. Like you have been preaching to the masses for 2000 years. You all have been saying you were founded way back when; so now belly up to the bar. Because there could be a grain of truth to what you told the people to justify your testimony and keep your wall of partition upright ’till today. The people are flummoxed about tomorrow. Betwixt and between whether to ask for tomorrow or not. There could be good reason why governance wants to turn back the hands of the clock and go back in time. Back to ‘the golden era’. The golden age. They can have fun with that venture. Shall they call on the rocks to hide them now…or wait a little while longer? At least they should think about getting their sea legs under them. But Gravol might work too. Makes me dizzy thinking about the gospel of the whatabouts, putting all their faith into one whatabout and blocking their ears and vessels to the 999 other whatabouts. Sounds like a tsunami of whatabouts to me. But the beach goes out as far as the eye can see. And who in religious business does not want to expand their ocean front property? The people have found the calm parts of their bibles to read on the beach.
Before I go, I have a question. My question is, why do people that do not want to read my writing say that I am the great tempter? Do they not have the power to say no, I am not going to read it? Have they not bought into the power and habit of the clergy?
I don’t suppose I will be too popular in saying this, but one thing I wrote on Saturday, may be true. The thing I wrote about getting back to the golden age. It looks like it is happening in meeting. The spirit of the golden age possibly has returned and it apparently feels the same as it always did. The spirit of the authoritarian regime of truth has settled back in, and it feels right to the people. Of course it feels right – it feels the same as it has the last 2000 years.
So the pickle jar is getting back to normal for now, and the people rejoice. And someone on the inside is having fun with that venture. Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers… Oh how the old prophets had a way with words. But Peter Piper said the old prophet was just making up some tongue twister, and if any was going to twist the tongues, it would be Peter Peter himself. Peter Peter knew how to keep the pickled peppers spoiled. But I am kind of understanding spoiled peppers only last for about 2000 years.
Spoiler alert! Nothing much has changed. The worshippers still worship the glass darkly of the pickle jar. In the age of information, the people return to the age and spirit of anti-information and say it feels right. Don’t cumber us or inform us with facts or factual questions they say, we made our mind up 2000 years ago.
I might be making all this stuff up. But nothing has changed for the vulnerable in the church, so I am not confident I just made it up. The priests and the cleavites still walk by proudly in their parades, waving their banners of what they call love.
In my morning exercises this morning, I decided to change things up a bit. I have not been able to get to some semblance of truth (not really true) regarding why the church leadership is dismayed at these funds starting to raise up, not only to help the victims of nefarious preaching tactics, but also to help the workers that have started to help themselves. Getting their own pair of eye glasses. As if Will Irvine’s pair of glasses was going to work for everyone. I don’t want to be asked the question one day of whose pair of glasses I was using to come to the conclusions I did. Reminds though of Colonel Klink’s monocle. Maybe Willie started off with a pair of glasses, then he graduated to a monocle. My question to the church, do you think Sergeant Hans Schultz was a bad guy? Serious funny guy maybe, but not a bad guy. I do wonder where Stalag 13 in the 2×2 church is right now. And I do wonder who the real Sergeant Shultz is in the church. I don’t mean the reality TV Shultz guy in the church that says he is Sergeant in Spiritual Arms, Pardoner in Chief.
And I also have not been able to get my head wrapped around the strategic gospel that has found somewhere in the good book about using various pardons for questionable character to build the fold out. And I have been searching in the good book for guidance on the he-said-she-said circumstance, looking to find where the he-said would be the authority absolute in the church like it is now. Maybe something I could read somewhere about the ablutions of the absolutists. And quite naturally, the big he’s in the church use a little flick of the pen and say it is the Big He that said it. I suppose that is the bible speaking directly to them kind of thing. They have heard the voice of the bible type of thing. And The Bible sez folks!
Anyway, long story short, in my morning exercises, I stood on my head for a while. And all this stuff became very clear to me. And to think I stood on my head for 55 years. And the podium always said, “Walk this way friends”. Evidently, I didn’t get very far walking that way. Victim of using someone else’s pair of spectacles, and not seeing the pardons for what they were.
And the Right Honorable Pardonship of the 2×2 church said to Adam…
Poor Adam. Had to take the blame for his wife’s interpretation of the bible.
Ministry of the 2x2s! Any of this starting to make sense yet? You may just have been chosen, exactly as you had thought. But it might be time to get on your feet, get your own pair of eyeglasses, and start moving forward. The platters may be empty, regardless of how much one gives thanks for ‘Organization’s Sake’. The cherry tree has been picked clean.
And you know what is the most amazing part of the story? Whoever the guy was that was exiled to the Isle of Patmos…he saw this thing 2000 years or so ago. Don’t think he was standing on his head, nor wearing someone else’s glasses. And I have a hunch he was not feeding on anti-root cause baloney sandwiches. I have a hunch he turned to truth and said, “I beg your pardon Sir!?”
Redact the one name in the video because it will be meaningless to the 2×2 church, but the message is not. The 2×2 church that insisted, and as far as I know still insists that it was/is the greatest nation of people on the earth. Maybe the 2×2 church is a Lost Nation. This message however will not be seen and therefore meaningless, by those that for some reason do not want to see and therefore possess little meaning in their lives. The brand contains all the meaning they need, and all their worth is wrapped up in the brand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=olYif8MH8nM
If this is not a kind, gentle nudge for the church to awaken…then hammers will have no effect. I really do not think it takes two, or even a band of men or women to deliver a message of truth.