We are sorry to say that Ken Pinney has some accusations against him from about 20 years ago of CSA (child sexual abuse).
As a result of that he was asked to not continue in the work.
It involved grooming activities, and it led to kissing a girl that was 14.
He said that experience scared him, and changed him, and since then he has sought to avoid anything that would lead in that direction.
The NC/VA/MD/DE staff
Another “sorry to say” letter. And the list goes on. This time Kenny Pinney said, ” that (the csa) experience scared him, and changed him, and since then he has sought to avoid anything that would lead in that direction”. These “workers” are SO full of themselves. Their self righteous oozing behavior is so obvious to someone that has separated themselves from this dangerous cult, and perverted underground culture of fakeness! Kenny didn’t change, he just was scared when he got caught. Just like Jerome Frandal and Bill Dink , who are still “brothers”.
? I’m sorry for whatever circumstances caused your obvious anger and disdain for the “cult”.
My own experience(s) with this “cult” do not mirror yours at this time. I HAVE seen the negative effects of some “cults”
both here and other in other countries&cultures. My understanding of the term “cult” may be different than yours and some others: Ignorance and intolerance of any belief system or belief in any higher power other than my OWN is a “cult” I hope to never be involved in. MY “cult” does not adhere to “Myway Hiway” doctrine. I consider that to be severe self righteous human judgement.
But I DO appreciate yours.
admins/moderators have have my permission to direct this reply to the intended recipient only.
I do NOT wish for this blog to become a debate forum and distract from its true intent and purpose.
I do find it difficult to idly stand by while such nasty biased posted comments are unchallenged.
This is a hard ask of our friends, but after much thought and prayer, I am asking that everyone not attend conventions until these matters are fully and publicly resolved. Our fellowship is too valuable to allow the pearls to be cast before the swine. There are workers with credit cards, bank accounts, investments, and real estate holdings. That is completely contrary to the direction that Jesus gave and is evidence of a lack of honesty in the ministry. Without being forced to change, it is clear that nothing will change.
Change is already being forced. There has been more change in the past two month than the past 20 years. This letter removes a worker for something done 20 years ago. If that’s not zero tolerance, I don’t know what is, and how can we demand more than zero tolerance? The recent transparency, dialogue, and change earns my support, yet somehow earns your call to boycott. The horse of the ministry has been led to the water of zero tolerance, and it is drinking. I’m just happy it’s finally drinking, and I don’t see the benefit of calling on others to whip the horse so it will drink faster.
While change does not happen overnight. I would not necessary call this voluntary change. This has been forced because it has been let out into the open.
Why so many are still upset is that at the core there has not been any changes in the hierarchy the same overseers that have been covering up are still in charge so the question remains is this tangible or just to placate the masses? Will sister workers be more involved? Will there be better and more transparent communication happening between the workers and friends? Are we going to be done with the secrecy and with the toxic hierarchical structure in the work and among the friends? Are we going to talk about all the real issues still not addressed like divorce, racism (and how it has no place among God’s ppl), lack of outreach to depressed communities?
This was excellent, mfergusen. Perhaps it’s so hard to believe because it happened so fast! It just makes me wonder if there weren’t a lot of even overseers who felt desperate for change but felt powerless to implement due to their own experiences, a climate of silence, and also being under authority. But God heard their prayers and empowered them and they are acting quickly. I just feel very comforted that “God avenges his own elect” and we get to see it happening so clearly in our day.
Mferguson, the only issues being addressed are sexual immorality and child sexual abuse. There are still financial and emotional abuses that are neither being addressed nor resolved. Pretending like limited or belated action fixed the systematic issues doesn’t actually give our trusting friends something they can or should believe in. Please encourage the workers at all levels to be more transparent and more accountable. Trying to resist the urge to groom or engage in a relationship with a minor suggests that there are deeper psychological issues and an unresolved propensity toward sexual abuse. Our friends and our children deserve a ministry that know not to engage in inappropriate contact with the friends of any age, even if they have not received ministry safe training.
I didn’t call it voluntary change, I called it forced change. Forced change feels disingenuous, but I’ll take it, since at this point one is indistinguishable from the other. Now to answer your questions: 1) Yes, this change is tangible. There is no motivation left for secrecy, the reputation tarnished, the image damage has been done. The only motivation left is for tangible change that will restore trust by preventing future abuse. 2) Sister workers are already more involved, and I hope will continue to be. 3) There is already better and more transparent communication happening between workers and friends, and since that is what it will take to restore trust, I feel it will continue. 4) Secrecy will trend in the right direction, but probably not completely done with it, must leave something for the gossips to whisper about otherwise they’ll have to find a new hobby. No comment on the “toxic hierarchical structure,” since I’m not sure what you mean by that. 5) Generally I think workers have been trending the right direction and in light of recent events, they’re now much more open to discussion of any issues. See posted “minutes” from recent gatherings where all topics are openly discussed. The good ones have always been open to any discussion, but some are certainly less comfortable than others.
Positive systemic change is happening within the fellowship, look to the future!
I’m dovetailing into a side topic, but are you able to say more about the real estate holdings? I definitely find that concerning and I would like to hear more about that. Feel free to follow up directly if you feel that’s more appropriate than derailing this thread: firstname.lastname@example.org
I don’t flag at all in my sorrow, pity and support for victims of CSA as I make the following comments:
I have to say this one shocks and hurts me (more than some other recent revelations in the “shock” category). ALL are sad.
I’ve thought I’d seen thru MY human eyes some very positive effects on lives of others (including younger ones) since I have known -not always closely, mind you- of Ken’s life’s work in the ministry.
Again, I support ZERO tolerance of any forms of CSA and always will tend to support the victims, until facts change my reason to believe the allegations. While understanding guilt (and true repentance) for misdeeds&crimes must be proven beyond reasonable doubt. My heart goes out to all victims of CSA and in this case the alleged perpetrator as well. 😞
I recognize my own human nature tends to see things as I would personally LIKE to see them, quite possibly incorrectly.
I hope to continue to ask Gods mercy for all involved in these sad issues. And continue to truly trust in HIS judgements.
😞 Dear Kinney I am so so sorry. I know life wasn’t so easy for you growing up. You’re one of the kindest workers I ever met. I believe you’ve worked hard to keep a soft heart and be right and do right, and the current environment is not kind on you. We don’t know who’s going to be left standing after all of the dust settles. But maybe you of all people would recognize the atrocity of CSA and why it scared you and you made sure to keep yourself far from temptation. You’re an example to us all. God knows those that are His and He will give you good comfort and bless you in your continued effort to stay right with Him and do right by his people.
A comment from Facebook.
“This took my breath away. KP stayed in our home about 15 years ago during special meetings in MT. My daughter would have been around 13 years old. In our family, we often sat in our hot tub in the evenings after supper. That evening we invited the workers to come out to the hot tub with us and Ken accepted. So now I have to live with the reality that I invited a sexual predator to sit in the hot tub with my family. I’m actually feeling short of breath knowing this. I’m horrified and beyond furious.”
I am sorry, but what sort of parent allows grown men into a hot tub with their 13 year old daughter… PARENTS WAKEN UP. It doesn’t matter who it is, you NEED to be careful. This is so gullible it is unbelievable. Some of this woman’s fury should be at herself and husband.
Call me victim blaming if you like – but sometimes I wonder what is going through these worker worshippers and idolisers brains. Use your damn brain, for the sake of your children.
Dead on correcto, here!
Junior Jones, I was raised in this religious cult and a “professing” dedicated member for 50 years. I was always told by my parents and the group’s leadership this was the ONLY WAY to salvation. My grandparents on both sides were also part of this group and were first generation members. My mom’s aunt was a first generation worker in the USA, starting out in Indiana.
You’ve got to have the workers approval that you can be baptized, I learned after a person very dear to me was not allowed to show their public declaration of their faith in Jesus Christ; and was REFUSED to be baptized by the workers! The workers have “DISCERNMENT” on such matters, I was told by the “head worker” in our state. He could not find where in the Bible (THE WORD OF GOD), that gives ANYBODY such authority, to DENY someone of their life changing decision. The Bible doesn’t deny anyone baptism.
“That”, referring to the Bible, the head worker said, “won’t help”, in answering my question about who can get baptized, and who can NOT. WORKERS “discernment” was HIS answer; or “the ability to judge well”! This overseeing head worker was “CONVICTED and SENTENCED for failure to report CHILD SEX ABUSE of which HE had knowledge”, taking place in a members home. AND, HE determined HE knows better than the Word of God?!
This “overseer” has the ability to judge well? No, the head worker just got the “brother worker” to another state, to commit more crimes — and not to a police station. After getting caught in his crime, and then serving time, this overseer is STILL a “head worker” today and still decides who can come and go into members homes, hiding real truths HE knows and keeping secrets of the “truth”. This guy would say later in a letter to members of the STILL ongoing child sex abuse in members homes, “we are shocked by this”, while he has been covering up for the sex abusers! His police mug shot is available to view online.
It’s very clear — “the truth” religion is not Bible based. It is a cult, with head worker made up rules. William Irvine, the first head worker in this cult, set the standard for overseers today. And, the workers are NOT servants! They are authoritarians, enforcing their rules while they live in your house and get your best food and best treatment. At the yearly conventions the workers sit at a specially designated dining table, with specially prepared foods, and special service. Kind of like the best table at the banquet. The workers sit in the very front, at the large annual conventions to be recognized. Just like Matthew 23:6 with the scribes and Pharisees, the workers, “love the uppermost places at feasts and the chief seats in the synagogues”. It all started with William Irvine and his ideas! It’s William Irvine’s way — or “The Way”. And, it is the workers way or the highway. It is not God’s way!
We share some similar experiences, our approach/response to them are different, beginning with your 2nd sentence: “I was always told by….”
Lines of authority have always been a contentious issue in Christianity: mtgs between original apostles in Jerusalem, Eddy Cooneys expulsion in the more recent era after Wm Irvine’s mental derailment, GWalker-JCarroll East/West territorial disputes, oversight boundaries today, etc.
Other belief systems experience them as well: Christian, Islam, Judaism etc
Social media has made a bigger issue out of the differences w some of the “revelatory” initial websites detailing the Wm Irvine “start up” of “truth” and the plethora of those that have followed. (new ones pop up and fade regularly)
Blindly following men’s ideas because of “fear” or pride is not how I want my life to be judged. Any time I’ve questioned a doctrine preached that I’ve found to be different that is biblical I personally have not encountered ANY shunning/shame/excommunication/criticism threats that some seem to fear.
Imagine a Dept of Defense that allowed their generals, admirals, pilots, troops, matériels to pick any battle anywhere they felt motivated or moved to participate in.
I also try not to make it a habit of imposing my thoughts on others. Some of these posts on the very serious CSA make it hard to refrain. Sorry.
If you are not of the truth you need to stay on the sidelines…..In fact just or away> This is our mess and we will clean it up. I was a molested years ago by one of the worst offenders, it has colored my life, I do not hold anyone to blame least of all the workers. Yes, I am still professing, I still feel this is the true way. For the wheat to be cleaned the wind must blow away the chaff. Another thing, for the one telling us to boycott convention, get real. We need convention, its part of us. Also please stop throwing out baseless accusations.
If you have prove, man up and present it. If not find your hole.
Thank you, BH
amen to that
Amen – also.
I keep reminding myself. I truly believe 90% plus of Workers and friends are good people –
What is being exposed is well overdue and required.
Yes, I agree with comments made about some Workers who display superior spiritual arrogance. For me if it doesn’t line up with scripture, I have never been afraid of telling them.
I have had to defend the “Cult” accusation in a Court of Law in a Family Court more than once. I have had over the years Clinical Physiologist’s and Child Lawyers in my home assessing me and separately interviewing children. 3 different very experienced Clinical Physiologists.
They dismissed the “Cult” accusation every time.
So I am sticking with our beautiful Sunday Morning Fellowship and every other blessing I have enjoyed for 50 years despite some flaws and mistakes by some.
In my profession I have had a lifetime of dealing with religion, culture and race and have a in depth knowledge of their belief structure’s and practices. I know Ministers of other Religions well and have other practicing Christian’s as friends.
I don’t agree with a-lot of things associated with their ways, but that’s for a loving supreme God to judge.
I DO NOT BELIEVE we are the only ones that are saved.
However, I do know that I am totally committed to doing everything in my power to stay in this fellowship and serve in my please to the best of my ability with love until the day I die.
Just for some perspective, this website on which we are finding information and freely commenting is owned and moderated by those that are no longer in the fellowship. In fact most of us would never be on a website like this if it weren’t for the current situation. So this IS their “hole” and as such they have a right to express the things that has driven them from the fellowship. When they make unhelpful accusations that are just from bitterness, I’m sorry about that because that does not help them or anyone to be heard. But whether or not I agree with their allegations is beside the point. We are here by invitation and I really appreciate those that are making a huge effort to make this site available to all of us, so that we can make wise decisions ourselves. I love love our fellowship and nothing surprises me that is written here. I think for many of us, we have waited for this day of reckoning. I’ve been super saddened by those that I have loved and appreciated but have given in to hurtful temptations that have ruined their reputations for the rest of their lives. But I know that even for their benefit, for them to get right and stay right with God, their offense should not be swept under the rug. And yes, we need, very much need convention.
WINGS is managed by a group that, all but one, are actively participating in meetings.
Thank you for that clarification, BGM. I had thought it was the three ladies only.
I’m sure the three ladies you are thinking of are not involved in WINGS at all. We do communicate with them though.
BGM, thanks for your clarification. I had read through the different websites back when this all started. But now I’ve again read through the information. Since the there seems to be a wings forum on the proboards site I thought maybe most running this site were connected with them. So now I know. I appreciate you making the effort to clarify and thank you for all of you who maintain this site and haven’t given up working to make our meetings a safe haven.
Jr Jones, you are naive and state, “Ignorance and intolerance of any belief system or belief in any higher power other than my OWN is a cult”. Jr you nailed it. Ignorance and intolerance is exactly what is going on in this religious cult and at some point it will affect you personally. When it does and the wolves eat you for lunch, you will finally get it. The” head workers ” do NOT care about YOU! I came from a well established, long time all in professing family and even that did not matter. It’s the workers who rule, not the Word of God. Look at all the children being molested sexually and spiritually. That is not from God! And, that is not normal for ANY religious group to have such an extreme number of child molesters per capita in the ministry and as elders. That is not accounting for the homosexual workers and the activities that are carried on in members homes behind closed doors with fellow workers. That is happening but of course, not reported. It is an abnormal life style for abnormal people, thus abnormal behaviour! It’s NOT GOD’S WAY!!! It is a cult. The sooner you figure that out the better for you. And, if you have kids, them better for them!
Thanks for your thoughts and righteous anger. Sorry you chose to worship a “way” and humans rather God thru Jesus.
I’ve had very close relatives in the work, out of the work & in oversight positions.
I hope the Lord helps us both get over our anger while there is time.
(“naive” is another term like “cult” that might deserve more study 🤷🏿).
The early believers could also have been classified as a “cult” for strictly following the teachings of one man, Jesus. The term cult is intended to be an insult but is really not easy to define. I grew up in the JW religion and they had lots of child molesters in places of authority as do the Catholic church and the Morman church. It seems like anywhere that you have a body of people truly wanting to be like Jesus, they are much easier to victimize just like the early church became easy victims for the Romans. If people are being fed spiritually in this fellowship, then the fellowship in and of itself isn’t the problem, the evil that is amongst it is the problem. This issue of child molestation is so black and white that if that alone is handled properly then I personally believe that so much evil will be out that the rest of the workers that remain will not have that influence and some of these other problems will be easier to handle.
Before we pat ourselves on the back about how things are now out in the open.
Be aware that what happens in one state doesn’t happen in another. In some states/cities there has been no open discussion about the CSA/SA that has been uncovered elsewhere. There are entire fields where people are unaware of what’s happening and secrecy is still reigning supreme. Workers and overseers have not mentioned or discussed the issue. In my field, one letter on procedures was emailed to some people with no explanation of why it was being sent, what precipitated its necessity, and some people simply believed it was a new government requirement. When a few had the nerve to ask what it was about, they were told oh, it was about a perpetrator in a state in another part of the country who is now dead. In other words, it was one bad apple so there is no longer a problem.
Much, much more needs to be done to share information, tell the truth and establish standards and practices that are common across the US and the world.
To – Considered soul, I’ve also noticed that in many fields there is either dead silence or the most minimal acknowledgement of a “situation” possible. I understand that in one field in central Canada a folded up and taped piece of paper was handed out after last Sunday’s morning meeting. Everyone was filing out the door and the worker (handing out the paper) was leaving the field for convention preparations. There was no comment made as each was given. This was three weeks after the overseer sent the letter (April 29) to the field with instructions to have each elder advise each person (family) that goes to that meeting.
It is probably not useful to bring anything up with the workers though, just to get gaslit and brushed off.
In our field in Alberta no notice has been given from our workers to the elders and thus to the members. We are aware of fields where notice was given of a letter from the head worker, but the communication was not given in ours. We checked with our elders to see if perhaps they were blocking this communication, but they say they had no communication from our workers. As far as we know, the only such communication issued from our head worker was regarding Dean Breuer.
Seems the workers here feel CSA can’t happen here……..
Thanks educate and empower for reminding other’s that this site is not a “friends&workers”
site and BGM clarifying that aswell.
If it wasn’t for ex members, even though members have also tried to address and rectify these issue’s, these thing’s would not have been made public and therefore no outside pressure on the fellowship to remove these perpetrators.So a hearfelt thanks to all
ex members who have fought so long and hard, its because of you that we see these changes in the fellowship today, thank God!
Louise, I’m sorry for the confusion. I hadn’t realized that all of the people except one who maintain this site in fact go to meetings. But I really respect that this site is wide open to anyone and the moderators allow comments from both those who are current and no longer attending meetings, so that all voices can be heard.
And to this worker:
Why would you stay in the work after you knew you had a problem? Did your shock lead you to seek help and were you rehabilitated?
Good write-up. I certainly appreciate this site. Continue
the good work!