Forgiveness and Sexual Abuse

Trigger warning: quotation of scripture, discussion of sexual abuse in a church context

Summary

This article on forgiveness presents a nuanced exploration of the concept, especially in the context of sexual abuse within church communities. It highlights that forgiveness, while a vital and restorative principle in human relationships and Christianity, has often been misused or weaponised to silence victims and avoid addressing the reality and gravity of abuse.

Key points summarized include:

  • Forgiveness is generally understood as ceasing resentment toward an offender and not seeking revenge. This works well for minor, accidental harms where repentance is present.
  • Sexual abuse, particularly child sexual abuse by adults or more powerful individuals, is very different: it involves intentional, severe harm often without repentance.
  • In cases of sexual abuse, urging victims to forgive can impose an unfair psychological and spiritual burden, suppress legitimate feelings, and discourage accountability and safety measures for offenders.
  • Forgiveness should never be demanded as a condition to avoid consequences or as a way to protect perpetrators. Doing so prioritizes offender comfort over victim wellbeing and community safety.
  • True forgiveness in such contexts is costly, complex, and deeply personal for survivors. It must not be confused with “cheap forgiveness” — a simplistic demand to forget and overlook abuse.
  • Church communities must embrace values of love, protection, and truth, supporting survivors and holding offenders accountable. Placing abuser rehabilitation or reputation over victim support damages trust and complicates recovery.
  • Forgiveness does not erase the need for justice, safety boundaries, or community responsibility.
  • The misuse of forgiveness may be seen as a form of spiritual harm or blasphemy when it becomes a tool to protect abusers under the guise of religious teaching.
  • The article calls for honest, ongoing theological and communal reflection on forgiveness, so it supports healing rather than enabling abuse or silencing survivors.

This thoughtful analysis stresses that forgiveness, while powerful, is not a quick fix or a blanket answer to sexual abuse. It must be understood and applied carefully, prioritizing survivor dignity, justice, and safety above simplistic appeals to forgive. Forgiveness is only part of a broader process of accountability, healing, and community protection.

Summary by Perplexity.ai

Note: AI was not used in the writing of this article, only for the above Summary.

Forgiveness

“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

 Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

Matthew 5:23-26

All Bible quotes are from the New International Version, sourced from https://www.bible.com/

Forgiveness can be a truly amazing thing. It can restore broken relationships, keep families functional, and probably even prevent war. It is a very important concept in Christianity and human communities in general. However, the way the word forgiveness is often used in connection with the sexual abuse of children is frustrating and harmful. I’ve seen it weaponised to oppress, silence, marginalise, and avoid dealing with real concerns about real suffering. I have experienced it used as what felt like a silencing tactic, without consideration of whether it was, in fact, absent, or even relevant to the problem we were discussing.

As described by de Vries (2023), “forgiveness is the heartbeat of salvation history and the virtue that should mark the followers of Jesus…but those who seek to control and manipulate others can twist even the very heart of the gospel for their perverted ends.” The sex abuse crisis that currently rocks the “Truth” (or the “2x2s” as they are now called in the media, for lack of an official name) has been caused (at last in part) by decades of this twisting and weaponising of forgiveness.

What is forgiveness?

I have a suspicion that when we use the word “forgive”, we’re not always talking about the same exact concept of forgiveness. One dictionary definition is:

forgive – as transitive verb

1 : to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon (eg forgive one’s enemies)

2 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for (eg forgive an insult)

   b : to grant relief from payment of (eg forgive a debt)

Merriam-Webster online dictionary https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forgive, retrieved 27 Nov 2024

In the context of abuse, the meaning that we usually intend is probably: “to give up resentment of or claim to requital”. Another common concept of forgiveness that I absorbed as a young person was the idea that to forgive means to decide not to seek revenge on the perpetrator – to wish them well and even pray for them, instead. We all need to thoroughly consider and clarify what exactly we mean when we use the word “forgiveness” to ensure that we are not talking past each other, or heaping impossible burdens on suffering people.

Facing up to why and how people hurt each other

We all hurt each other at some point. We can’t help it! From toddlerhood to grandparenthood, friendships, marriages, parenting, receptionists, doctors, teachers, politicians…we inevitably hurt other people in ways big or small. We learn in childhood, with the assistance of our community (hopefully), how to mend the rifts caused by our inevitable missteps through daily life.

Most of us don’t want to hurt other people and we feel bad about it when we’re aware of the impact of our actions, and we act to repair the relationship. It might be as simple as “I’m sorry! Are you OK?” after accidentally stepping on a friend’s foot, or a hasty “sorry!” when we bump the stranger in the queue with our elbow. Forgiveness is a great tool to help people mend relationships in the wake of these missteps, when repentance is present, harm is accidental, and harm is on the smaller end of the scale. Giving up resentment of the harassed, tired mother wrangling a hungry, tired toddler after she accidentally stepped on your foot at the checkout yesterday is generally a great thing for the functioning of society and everyone’s sanity and wellbeing!

However, harm can be intentional, or highly predictable, and highly damaging, and not accompanied by repentance or any concern for the impact on the recipient. This is the category I put sexual abuse in, especially the sexual abuse of children by older, more powerful adolescents or adults.

Understanding why people commit these acts is a topic that has spawned many books, articles, theories, and rehabilitation or restorative justice programs. As best I can make out after extensive research, we really don’t fully understand why people commit sexual abuse. Most of us struggle to understand why people do horrible things to other people at all. Under “Recommended Reading” at the end of this article, I have listed some books that I have read and found helpful to provide insight into why and how sexually predatory humans do what they do. I recommend the books by Hinton and Salter in particular for those needing insight into the intentions of, and harm done by, sexual predators. You won’t find definite answers to the “why” question, but useful insight.

Why preaching and discussing “forgiveness” in the context of the ongoing sexual abuse crisis in the church is problematic

Forgiveness is often mentioned in the wake of the harm done by sexual abuse, but in this context, it comes with pretty serious complications. The harassed mother in the queue is almost certainly deserving of forgiveness for standing on your foot – she was already trying not to hurt anyone, and will almost certainly try hard in future not to step on anyone else’s foot while shopping with her toddler. She can safely be let go without consequences or resentment.

The repeat adult sexual offender against small children, though…or the serial murderer…now we’re talking about something very different. The opportunist adolescent who offends once against a child while struggling to process sexual trauma of their own is a different situation again – but the harm they’ve done is likely also very far from that of the harassed foot stepping mum’s action.

Returning to our definition of “forgive” – ”to give up resentment of or claim to requital for”…when sexual abuse victims are told to forgive, because Jesus said to forgive (or the secular psychological idea that it is healthier for victims to forgive), they are usually being told to cease all bad feelings about the offender and their abusive actions AND to forgo legal pathways to consequences for the perpetrator.

Telling victims to “just forgive” their abuser, as “the answer” to “their problem” presents an issue of serious, intentional misuse of one human being by another as really an issue of an individual’s attitude to the one committing the harm. It heaps psychological and spiritual pressure on a victim to behave or feel in a certain way that may not even be possible for them (or anyone) right now (and maybe never). It sidesteps the real ongoing impact the victim must live with, and enactment of accountability and safety practices for the offender and their community.

In my opinion, from my observations and reading around sexual abuse, especially in church contexts, preaching forgiveness at sexual abuse victims is an attempt to deflect from harm done to individuals and to the community. “You just need to forgive” acts as a thought-stopping cliche (Klenk, 2025). It is an attempt to avoid making the effort to deal with such a complex and unpleasant issue. (Another similar statement which closes down discussion around sexual abuse is “I don’t want to lose my peace” (MacLernon, 2025)). Other reactions to disclosure also contribute to the internalised shame victims suffer from and do additional damage (Spring, 2021).

With or without forgiveness, psychological harm to survivors is ongoing, as is the risk of physical and psychological harm that the offender presents to future victims. Survivors have to deal with the damage done in their life, as well as personally holding the offender to account if possible, and trying to keep other possible victims safe from them. Deflecting from the work required by using forgiveness as a silencing or avoidance mechanism only puts the possible next victim in danger, rather than acting to reduce further harm by holding the perpetrator accountable and setting up boundaries to keep the vulnerable safe.

The community must wrestle with the aftermath of sexual abuse together, rather than leaving the victims alone to do the hard work and suffer from the stress of trying to save everyone around them from their offender. Many victims do forgive their offender – sometimes offenders even appear to be repentant. However, forgiveness is a personal thing, for the victim, or between the victim and God. Repentance is a personal thing and is for the perpetrator to work on, NOT the victim as abuse is NOT their fault. The existence of forgiveness and/or repentance does not alter the fact that the community must protect and support victims, and cannot predict with any accuracy whether an abuser will reoffend. Forgiveness “does not erase consequences or remove the need for justice” (Grillo, 2025). Similarly, “if forgiveness was the toleration of sin, no government could enforce the law” (Vieth, 2012).

Upon reading the recommended books about the behaviour of offenders, it will become abundantly clear to anyone that many abusers are master deceivers and manipulators and the community cannot with any certainty determine their true attitude. Be careful when offenders ask for forgiveness or claim to have repented – this can be just more manipulation of victims or for show to mislead and reassure the community.

Values and ethos of the church community

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these. Mark 12:30-31

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another. John 13:35

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Selected verses (2, 4-7) from 1 Corinthians 13

Using forgiveness to suppress further discussion and action regarding sexual abuse appears to prioritise the comfort of the perpetrator over those they have harmed in the past and may harm in future. When churches prioritise the feelings of alleged and convicted sex abusers, survivors see a community that is not living up to its professed moral and ethical values, and that cannot be trusted to protect the vulnerable.

Part of recovery from sexual abuse involves regaining trust and agency. Church support of abusers at the expense of victims does nothing to further this cause – in fact, it makes recovery efforts much, much more complicated and difficult. It also does very little to improve the character of the perpetrator, who may justifiably believe they have successfully taken care of the problem without further action (remorse, amends, change of church role, character development etc).

A retired Anglican priest (Parsons, 2018) described this issue using the idea of cheap versus costly forgiveness:

Cheap forgiveness and real forgiveness are two quite different currencies. The Church authorities seem in some places only to understand the first kind, the ‘forgive and forget’ option. Those who are survivors want them to begin to grapple with and understand the second kind, the incredibly costly task of moving forward with lives, even though the burden of abuse has left them with a legacy of acute pain. Somewhere, somehow, that path may eventually open itself up to the costly form of forgiveness. No one pretends that this is ever straightforward or easy. Among the many things that survivors ask from church leaders is the recognition of the difficulties of their struggle to move on and to flourish again. They ask to be considered as partners in the long journey which the whole church must take to put right the atrocious events of the past. For that, they must be regarded as allies, not as enemies to be defeated or litigants to be threatened with legal actions. Churches need all the help they can get in this undertaking. They need the survivors and perhaps in the end they need the State to help them protect children and the vulnerable from harm.

Back to values and community ethos…love, the greatest commandment of them all according to Jesus, “does not dishonor others…is not self-seeking…does not delight in evil…always protects (1 Corinthians 13). Do these values sound like those of someone who commits sexual abuse repeatedly with no downstream behaviour consistent with true repentance, or no acknowledgement of the serious harm they have done to someone else, a child victim, their family?

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

Matthew 7: 1-6

Observant readers will notice that love “keeps no record of wrongs” (1 Corinthians 13). Other observant readers will wonder why Jesus’ command “do not judge” (Matthew 7:1-6) has not been discussed. Anyone who believes that these Bible verses rule out reporting of abuse to authorities or putting boundaries in place around sex offenders needs to consider whether they would forgo the usual police report and insurance claim when their car gets broken into and important possessions stolen. Sexual abuse is thievery on an epic, life changing scale, of future earnings, relationships, self esteem, peace, and possibly even reproductive rights and healthy functioning to name a few things. We can throw scripture bombs at each other all day but that does not prevent or ameliorate serious harm. It could be suggested that judging victims for judging sex offenders for damaging them might be rather like complaining about the speck in the victim’s eye and missing the giant plank in the perpetrator’s and congregation’s eyes.

Some relevant quotes from the book “The Devil Inside” (Hinton, 2021)

It’s strange to me when church leaders’ theology is “grace for all,” except for victims who were raped as children and have the guts to speak up about it. Many survivors have told me that they, not their abusers, were removed from church because they were “causing problems” by speaking up about their abuse and were crying out for help. Often abuse survivors are painted as “too bitter, too reactive, too emotional, and too jaded,” simply for telling the truth about the abuse. It’s no wonder that victims often don’t tell anyone when they are abused. Imagine showing up to a hospital, only to have doctors and nurses gang up on you and shame you for telling them that you are bleeding out. This response would make you want to never step foot inside a hospital again.

– Chapter 13: What I learned from consulting with churches

False foundations are why survivors are told to forgive and move on. It’s why churches keep insisting on inviting in and even hiring convicted child rapists. Literally nothing is required of the abuser while the heavy burden of forgiving and reconciling is placed on the shoulders of the abused. It makes no sense if we really understand God’s foundation of righteousness and justice. Righteousness requires people to behave righteously. Justice requires those who do not to be rebuked and kept away from anyone they intend to harm.

– Chapter 14: Theology and deception

Unforgiveness, blasphemy, and God’s reputation

Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Matthew 12:30–32

One meaning of “blasphemy” is “the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God”.

Merriam-Webster dictionary online (merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blasphemy), accessed 26 Nov 2024

In a church setting, preaching “forgiveness” at sexual abuse victims can imply that God is on the perpetrator’s side, and doesn’t care very much about the wellbeing of those they’ve hurt (or may hurt in future). This is especially the case when the perpetrator is in the ministry or has the status of an elder, or the “forgiveness” talk comes from the ministry. Perhaps it could be considered that to use God’s Word to weaponise forgiveness against victims (thereby turning His church into a haven for child sexual abusers) in his name is actually insulting God, i.e. committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin. That seems worth serious consideration!

Final comments

Christianity spreads the message that if you love and forgive people they will be overwhelmed by it and decide to be better – Jesus died for your sins, follow him etc. However, love is not a magic fix for serious problems. It may well have redemptive power, but free will and choice is also at work, as well as other complicated things about the human mind and body that even the psychologists and neuroscientists are still debating and discovering.

Some things to ponder:

  • What kind of ethos do you want your community to have – or what do you believe are its values? Is it behaving in a manner consistent with these? Does the Holy Spirit really tell your community to cover up sexual abuse and blame the victims for trying to keep other children safe?
  • Where is the forgiveness of victims for being angry, sad, struggling with faith, speaking out etc, even if you really believe they are in the wrong?
  • Your assumptions that if victims are requesting boundaries for their own health, or needing to report the offending to protect others, they must have “not forgiven”, are inaccurate and hurtful. Forgiveness doesn’t help survivors sleep at night secure in the knowledge that others are safe from the offender.
  • Survivor forgiveness of their perpetrator (who harmed THEM directly, and the community indirectly) is not the same as the church community “forgiving” in a general vague sense and rehabilitating perpetrators into meetings – the degree and type of harm done differs – the congregation cannot “forgive” on behalf of the victim, or over the head of the victim! An entire article could be written on this alone.

    Please check out some of these books and articles. We all, believers or not, church members or not, 2x2s or Baptists or Catholics, have a lot of work ahead of us as a community to support survivors and make the next generation safer than we were among our people. We need to wrestle with theology around things like forgiveness rather than weaponising it or looking for quick shortcuts to deal with abuse.

Author: One of many anonymous survivors of abuse in the 2×2 church, and author of: Book Review: The Devil Inside: How My Minister Father Molested Kids In Our Home And Church For Decades And How I Finally Stopped Him

References

Recommended Books

  • Hinton, J. (2021). The Devil Inside: How My Minister Father Molested Kids In Our Home And Church For Decades And How I Finally Stopped Him. United States: Freiling Publishing.
  • Peck, M. S. (1983). People of the Lie. United States: Touchstone.
  • Salter, A. (2004). Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders. United States: Ingram Publishing Services.
  • Sapolsky, R. M. (2017). Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst. United Kingdom: Penguin Publishing Group.

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17 thoughts on “Forgiveness and Sexual Abuse”

  1. Excellent article.

    In the 2×2 context, this sentence from the AI summary is probably the most applicable:
    “Forgiveness does not erase the need for justice, safety boundaries, or community responsibility.”

    This is how forgiveness is being used: to end any action of justice, safety or simply acting moral. The victims are solely required to be the solution while the dangerous environment persists.

    Great to see a few authors from the meeting system being quoted here.

    Reply

    1. It is easy to say “I’m sorry”. I think just sorry they were caught. A worker spoke in a Sunday morning meeting that they had been forgiven. I don’t understand…they’re forgiven! But not by the victim. They have to deal with this the rest of their lives. I don’t think this is right.

      Reply

      1. My ‘truther’ sister who abused my younger brother and I our entire lives said that when she ‘re-professed’ after finding a willing weak man to marry her and therefore knew she had to re-profess to get him, she said that her past – her slate – had been wiped clean according to the Bible. Maybe so if she hadn’t continued to sin, by forging her in-laws signatures on rental properties they owned – putting them in her name only – and continuing to hurt innocent people for the next 30-plus years and she still has all the money she needs to have that kind of control. I’ll never understand it. I’ve tried so hard to remain a good person but all my remaining family members can say – the ones who profess, that is – is that God is testing me and blessing her because she professes. It’s beyond sad.

        Reply

      2. I like this question @futuristic. Two things you question that I also like to question in myself.

        The one point about saying ‘sorry’. I know I have written on it and have said things like sorry seems the hardest word. I think that a person can detect the spirit of how that word is said. I have done so myself and experienced others that nearly blow the other person’s face off when they said ‘SORRY!’ Then there are those that never ever say sorry for anything, no matter whether it would bring peace in the family or not. “Not my fault” they say, “so no way I am going to say sorry”. Those people care not about true peace in the family; they just want their own peace, to phewy with another’s peace.

        The whole apology / forgiveness / reconciliation thing can be very difficult with years and years and years of layered stuff that needs to be worked through. And you are right, words are just words if there is no attempt to take the time or have the patience or empathy to get understanding. And understanding is very much a two way street; to get this understanding between two individuals or between an individual and an organization.

        As I work through this situation in the church (much to the chagrin of the church ‘fathers’ I am sure – they want me to stay out of it, but keep saying strange stuff in front of the congregation that seems they are wanting to get my attention), I am definitely finding I am out of my element. And believe it or not, I am coming to some kind of understanding that the workers still in are out of their element also. Because I also tried to ‘fix’ situations, situations that I myself had a hand in creating. And because the depths of someone’s despair was not fully understood, then fixing something tender with a hammer is not well received nor beneficial. It was not the balm that was needed to soften up the outer layers so-to-speak to help work away at deeper layers unseen.

        I am not going to be very good at explaining this type of situation, because in my mind it is complex. But I find in this situation a parable that helps me. And that is the parable of the Samaritan, and the one wounded, and thirdly those wearing the ‘fatherly’ garments on the other side of the road…garments that cover up a naked understanding. Those that likely projected across the road, “Sorry ’bout your tough luck, but we need to get along and do our job of spreading the gospel.” Or maybe they were wise clergy and knew they would be absolutely useless in even getting to step one in helping someone.

        So here is a new thing I see in that parable. The Samaritan came along, bound up the wounds, poured in the oil and wine…then what did he do? He then took the wounded to the inn where there were people that were accustomed to helping people and giving them shelter. He likely knew he was out of his element. Or he was a busy guy and knew that in his haste of fixing things up quickly he would just end up making more of a mess. He said to the inn keepers, I will pay you to help them. The people in the inn had no urgency to get the wounded out the door and on their way. In my mind, the church with myself included should have understood that only professionals in these matters could be any kind of assistance and healing. Beating bible verses into them or telling them to get on with life is not going to help. Maybe the clergy was not the robber, but they were more than willing to let the robber and time get away. Evidently they had not much choice but to let the robber get away, but I question why the ministry is waiting for time to get away also.

        Naturally, another part of that parable that is not spelled out but is evident to me? The one in the ditch did not start slapping the Samaritan. But maybe they would have if the Samaritan started scraping at the wounds to ‘clean’ them up, thinking that was all that was needed to get them sound and whole again.

        Anyway. Likely I am not very clear.

        The second part you mention on the forgiveness thing, and I like other people’s input on this. I have come to understand to a little extent recently…if I am ‘looking’ for or demanding forgiveness from another, I haven’t likely got my head screwed on the right way around. The wounded need to be carried gently to the inn….by someone. Someone that is a beast of burden and walks them slowly and patiently there. And the wounded need to be willing to go. In the meanwhile, if forgiveness never comes, it likely means I tried to fix the wounds with a hammer and sickle.

        And another thing about forgiveness. There are some I think that hope that a legitimate reason for forgiving will never come. It is an interesting thing. Those people have a big bag of screws and they want to use them all up before the sun goes down. And if they run out of screws to put to the other person before the sun goes down, they go buy another bag of screws. Making sure the other is well screwed to their cross. Yes, likely I am still putting the screws to the leadership…but it does seem like they are flopping around a little bit on their cross still able to pull on a few strings here and there. Or maybe I have that wrong and there are strings pulling their arms up and down. Come fly away with me? Hard to know what is going on.

        And it seems to me the hammer and sickle are in full swing on those that lived their lavish life style in the ‘church’, hiding behind the cloak of being the greatest of all time having immeasurable greed to be number one. Feet up on the coffee table, playing spiritual poker. They now have become victims of their own devices. And no one will show up to save them. And the people will say, “Buddy was good at saving himself, but was there a wee touch of guile when he said he was going to save us too!” “Where did he go all of a sudden?”

        So yes Futuristic – there are true words of repentance on the one hand and forgiveness on the other, but if the ‘big’ person in us looks for those things from another but does not turn our own eyeballs around and take a look, then likely those things are not real.

        To me, forgiveness from another cannot be bought or beat into them – it must be earned somehow. And repentance needs to come with a price. And big brand religion tends not to like paying that price, so they just dress up in a white wedding dress and cault themselves squeaky clean virgins.

        Just trying to give everyone a fair shake, including myself. Shake it up! And listen to the children’s voices rising in unison. The thunder of the jets of the ministry leadership are trying to drown out those voices, but there must be some thunder also happening in the golden toilets.

        Reply

        1. There was an article on here not long ago. It listed the workers who had allegations and the results. Do you know anything about this? If you do would, you post it again?

          Reply

          1. Example: everyone talks and recites Bible verses but not one post that I’ve read talks about any predator-workers being prosecuted or put in prison. Like Leslie White. He was so charming. My mother and sisters just LOVED it when he came to visit. So charming, such a great conversationalist, knew so much about the Bible (or his version of it) and yet, so many women have come forward and yet again, he has never spent one day in prison that I’m aware of and when that female worker finally came forward about 15 yrs ago, she was judged by so many truthers online, in those forums and other ways. It is sickening the conversations but yet no one ever faces judgment of the laws of the land by our legal system outside of “THE TRUTH” cult. It’s all swept under the rug like all the Catholic priests who molested all of those trusting altar boys. I’m sure it has made many poor souls stop believing that there even IS a God and even if they do believe in God, they don’t feel loved by Him.

            Reply

            1. @futuristicallyamphisbaena3e925c80f6. Maybe someone else on here can bring up the list of those with infractions against the children; those with the idea that someone else’s children were children that God gave them as chattel (word sounds like cattle, no?) to take care of and it was put in these people’s hearts to be quite fondle of these children. Little children (youngsters) or adult children – like those ones that we read of in many places that would be malleable in truth’s hand. The name or word ‘children’ is given for God’s people that would follow the seven spirits. I have read the bible forwards and backwards and upside down and no matter what, I can’t seem to wheedle into the list of the seven spirits the spirit of religion.

              But I suppose, if I drop one or two of those seven spirits off into the ditch (like discarding a coffee cup out the window of my car sort of thing as I motor down the road of life), then by dropping one or two of those spirits out the window like trash, then maybe I could do some religious kind of math and come up with the spirit of religion. For instance, if I take salt and separate it into it’s two basic components, I come out with sodium on the one hand and chloride on the other. It seems the ministry of spiritual health sciences has been providing horse pills of chloride to the congregations. Now, I do not expect everyone to have had the experience of trying to get a horse or cattle pill down a horse or cow’s throat. The pill is about 2-1/2 to 3 inches long and about 3/4 inch wide. You need this long insertion tool to get it down past the animal’s tongue…otherwise they just use their tongue to spit the pill out. But it seems, everyone’s tongue has gone still and quiet with no resistance and it seems the chloride is being saviored and swallowed. The ones at the lecterns in the churches have convinced the people that continued big shots of unadulterated chloride will kill all the evil bugs floating around in our religious bloodstream…those evil bugs that got ingested from the evil environment of those others out there. The religious world seems to be getting more and more allergic to the cooties of questions trying to flush out the truth.

              Dr. Mark will not go any further on the triage mechanisms of religious science, but do think there is something now lodged in people’s neuro systems that is flushing any remains of truth out into the draught. Funny word that word draught. But I know what it feels like when walking behind a cow when it does a couple things at the same time – when it coughs and passes a draught, right when nature calls the beast. The one standing behind it catches a draught of the cow and catches some of the ruminated pasture with it. Kinda sucks to be the one with poor timing and not having the spiritual foresight to dodge that kind of draught.

              Moving on, I do agree with you @amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I do not think it is fair for anyone to say that I am fully eating the ‘good’ book up, lock-stock-trigger-and-barrel, dumping the whole thing on my religious rump roast because I love salt. Though I can be convicted of bringing some of it’s chloride together with some of its sodium and able to make salt of it. And the salt I find there does not give me license (dawning on me more and more) to holler across the table to one, even a family member that does not think the same way as me, while they go silent or otherwise telling me that to get on board heaven’s train that I need to take my chloride pill also.

              What am I trying to say? Who knows? I suppose I am trying to understand how families can come back together rather than be split apart by religious notions. And the laborers and workers of religious notions have always said from time immemorial that they will take over God’s job that he said he would do and it was not really Billy Joe Jim Bob’s job to take from him. And that job is to separate the sheep from the goats.

              But I do need to draw some lines in my own life it seems, instead of trying to draw them in someone else’s. And that line in my own life is when someone says that their own law gives them some legal right, embellished on them by some ‘holy’ kind of spirit to shower fondleness on someone else’s children. And on the extreme flipside, some ‘holy’ kind of spirit they say gives them license to blow someone else’s children to smithereens. For you see, I am coming to some sense, and I could be all wrong…but I am getting a sense that it is being established who’s children belong to whom. Shall I dispute now and be too vocal on which parent the child now belongs to? Regardless of who they may have belonged to three or ten or twenty or twenty five years ago?

              If this all sounds Greek, then please offer me the red ribbon for Greekness. If you think I write Greek, then you probably do not want to hear me speak with a starmer. But I personally am trying to hold out hope for all. That families could be together in their own quirky uniqueness and points of view. No need to tell them they are fired because they somehow felt they needed to lecture me one more time. Twenty five years is a long time to lecture someone and not get any traction. The hope is that the lecturers would eventually stand at the podium in the privacy of their own washroom, look in the mirror and let it fly a final time. The hope is, they would finally get the draught.

              So lots of hope on my part for people that they would come together and shake off the religious garments of hypocrisy. The garments meant to make a group of people look all the same, and look like they all think the same way. Bully for them though that they want to force everyone else to eat from their soup bowl of their own religious concoction…and in their stupor their face falls or is pushed in their own soup bowl. A negative draught of Campbell’s Gotta-a-Beef-Chunky, or Clam Up Chowder.

              Now the question. Which guys/girls understanding dark sentences are the good guys and which are the bad guys? Here is the clue as I see it. Just do an assessment whether you can check off the seven spirits that it says the Master would have. If they are lacking one or more, just be kind and hope they like Chunky Soup. Not much you can do if they say Campbell’s Chunky is the only true soup sent from heaven.

              A can of worms has been opened and religion still insists skirts be cut just below the knee, and 13 bobby pins in the bun at a minimum. I am just waiting for Willie’s crew to insist that all ties of the clergy be red. As I understand from marketing, red is the color and symbol of power. I am just waiting for some commandment from heaven to get the suits of red and the ties of blue. That then to me would be the sure sign of power.

              Blimey! Another question pops into my mind. Someone wrote one time and we read that Satan was cast out of heaven way back over yonder dale. The prophet said “I saw!” He said “I saw Satan cast out!” The question is to all the observers…when does this exactly mean? Does it mean yesterday, or some yesterday…or today…or some tomorrow? Sure religion says they have the answer. I do not even think the prophet had the answer, but religion says they live in the prophet’s head. But one passage that has me curious. The passage where the prophet said come out of her my people. Her. Not him. Her. And the people will miss the cue, because they preach their brand of power and enlightenment and control from ‘manly’ places. Mansplaining. New word for the prophets. Oh the mansplainers got truth all lynched up by the neck, hoisting it into the rafters.

              Oh well. Just some more stuff I made up today. And believe it or not, it did not come from the AI (artificial intelligence) of religion. And crazy how some are now questioning the artificial additives and sweeteners…and wondering if that is what is causing spiritual autism in the children.

              Have a great day everyone. And try to hug all your family, even if they want to float the Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC ministry south. Cheerio!

              Oh, before I go. Can someone please tell me why religion said that it was all in the postman that delivered the love letter…and nothing about the one that wrote the love letter, and nothing about the one that would receive the love letter. You all see now why this old boy is singing looney tunes? I always wondered by the milkman and the postman always went about with a whistle.

              And amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I left Leslie White behind. He evidently wanted to stay in the ditch. His name White was just the sepulcher or house he made for himself. Why some are stroking his locks and straightening his hair sitting in the ditch with him, I do not know. There must be something that was put into their mind to do so. And I cannot argue with what was put into their mind to do. That would be like fighting against God I suppose. If God is truth and love, then I need to love that their truth will be revealed without my help.

              Sorry people. I still have some contradictions to my writing and thinking. And my question is, are contradictions all lies? Or are all lies contradictions? Whatever. As long as the contradictions get fewer and fewer in search of possessing the seven spirits, I think a person is on a good road. I do believe there are no contradictions in love and truth. Not sure why religion falls on their knee to the benediction of contradiction. And not sure why the church administration needed to convene to rework the contradiction in 2023 to keep their titles of Ben Edict.

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  2. Thank you for this excellent article.

    The article mentions that in this church, victims/survivors of sexual abuse are expected to forgive their abusers, but the victims/survivors themselves aren’t forgiven for being angry, sad, or for speaking and acting out in their traumatized state.

    I think this can be explained in large part by who is in which role. Sexual abusers and predators tend to be men (more rarely, women or adolescents), while victims tend to be children or women.

    Male-dominated groups (like this church and others) believe that men’s perspectives and experiences are more important, worthwhile and correct than those of women and children. There are different degrees to this, and not every individual in a group can consciously recognize this or admit it. But it shows itself in many ways, both subtle and overt. The perspectives and preferences of men (especially more powerful men) are prioritized, while other group members must defer to and accommodate themselves to men’s worldview, often without even consciously realizing they’re doing so.

    So it makes sense (in a sick way) that the burden of forgiveness falls entirely on people lower on the group’s social totem pole, even when they’ve been grievously and criminally harmed – while at the same time they’re judged strictly for their own actions and reactions.

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  3. Love the resources and thoroughness of this article. Dr. M. Scott Pecks books are invaluable when you are interested in therapy as a solution for any trauma.
    I love how much this article focused on love. And what we often fail to recognize in ourselves is fear. Fear will motivate us to justify anything. And that’s why we’re commanded to fear not. And we can have a lot of love and only a little fear and the fear will win. Peace be unto you all… fear not! Love!

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  4. I am not sure where this comment should be posted and will trust the moderator to put it where it should be, or to refrain if it is not applicable.

    The article on forgiveness is very good. I want to address the issue as well.

    Forgiveness only follows repentance. Repentance usually begins with some expression of remorse that operates as a starting point for the repair of the breach in the relationship. It is necessary when anyone who has caused offense offer an apology, show accountability, and accept blame. Even if they are never forgiven by the offended party, if the apology, accountability, and acceptance of blame are sincere, at least one half of the equation can be resolved. Resolution – beginning with repentance – is costly and always has been. Even if resolution costs money, it is still not as expensive as the cost of humility.

    I have informed my little fellowship meeting that I am taking what amounts to a leave of absence. In taking leave of my very dear friends, I made sure they understood it had nothing to do with them, for they are lovely in their spirit and true in their purpose. I was sure to express that it had everything to do with our ministry leadership. I left the door wide open to resume fellowship with them, but I would first need to see genuine remorse and repentance on the part of our leadership.

    Who am I to make such a demand? I am a brother of 48 years. I spent 5 of those years in the gospel work, including time with present-day leaders among the ministry, as well as those who have passed on. I say this simply to give some context to my comments. Anyone who has made their choice within the Friends and Workers (F&W) fellowship could be considered as having been willing to be led by the Shepherd and those who proclaim to follow His example. Sheep actually do have an expectation to be led by true shepherds.

    Enough with the sheep/shepherd analogy. I want to keep this very real, because it is very serious. The ministry needs to issue, from the very top of its hierarchy, a fulsome apology for the efforts over time to shield perpetrators of CSA and SA. The reshuffling of worker perpetrators, like a deck of cards to be dealt out to another companion or field, is so obviously outrageous as to demand redress. Time after time, they have gone on to another area only to continue their predations. I am an attorney, and I know the failure to step up, be accountable, and apologize is because of a fear of liability. This is not advice I would have given, as sound as it may seem from a legalistic point of view. This is about failure over many generations, about people taking it on the chin for the team, and not embarrassing the only true way. But we need more truth than that in “The Truth.”

    So many, including myself, have been discouraged to the point of despair by the failure of our leaders to be accountable and repent. How can we trust you to show us, or anyone else, the path to repentance if you are not demonstrating it first? You are preaching the gospel of repentance. For Heaven’s sake, demonstrate it, regardless of the cost. John exhorted those hearing the gospel to bring forth fruit that spoke of repentance. Some wondered how. The soldiers asked what that meant for them. They were told to do violence to no man, a likely death sentence. The publicans asked as well. They were to exact no more than what was owed, likely a sentence of poverty for them. Think of what the act of repentance has cost anyone. Liability? That should be the least of your worries as all of Heaven looks on.

    There is so much more to be said, but it is all hot air without repentance. So many of us have paid a very costly price to make our choice to serve God. We have come to understand, by the ministry’s own example, that we do not corner the market on virtue. And we don’t have a lock on righteousness either if our own ministry will not offer fulsome repentance. I have only seen one overseer dare to offer such a complete apology, and he did so with real concern over possibly being dismissed from his post. That, together with the reasoning behind forsaking guidelines and any other “indicia of corporateness,” as we would say, is so telling.

    So, no, I have not “lost out,” or lost faith. To the contrary, I see things very clearly. Once I see the men at the very top, both east and west of the Great Divide, accept and admit culpability, and ask forgiveness, I will return to the humble fellowship meeting in the home, and I will have confidence again in the sacrificial ministry leadership. You may not be missing much with me gone, but I assure you there are so many who feel the same way I do, who you see daily or yearly at conventions, or even in workers’ meetings, but who may not yet be as convicted as I am to make these assertions.

    David R. Serra

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    1. David Serra,
      I see and believe this situation, lack of accountability and full apologies as you have written.
      When the simple gospel story is to repent, love God, love your neighbor and believe, your response hit a nerve.
      Anyone who loves Jesus would be compelled to do this as this is His commands.
      How can the leadership and any that are still participating as the clergy not see this?
      Why not come clean, admit and eliminate the evil and enjoy pure fellowship?
      I simply want to amen your thoughts. Thank you. Tom Taylor

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      1. Thanks, Tom. We’ve been taught, rightly, that there is no salvation without repentance. The leaders among the ministry must begin the healing dialogue with an apology to all the fellowship on behalf of the ministry, past and present. It’s not optional.

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      2. Tom refers to the behavior of “anyone who loves Jesus,” which Jesus described to his disciples in the gospel of John chapter 14 from verse 15:

        15 “If you love me, keep my commands. … 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”…

        23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

        A similar description of how we show love for God is in the first epistle of John, chapter 5, early verses.

        What survivors and advocates are asking for isn’t only based on human thoughts and reasoning, but on basic Christian teaching.

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  5. There is a reason why our Bible says “if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off.” Better to lose family members than allow them to drag you down into the pit – I know, that last part is me. My older 3 sisters pretend to be so perfect; even the one who isn’t professing but the other 2 who claim to be ‘truthers’ – as I’m shaking my head – have sinned beyond sinning. They live their lives like the ‘rumors’ of Catholics who sin and then go to confession and all is forgiven but in my opinion, their worst sin is, holding themselves and their sins way above others – such as me – who don’t profess into the cult – because that’s what the truth is – a cult – they talk about poor little sister who is going down to the pits because I don’t profess into a sickening cult but I choose to worship my Father in Heaven and Jesus from the privacy of my home and I do not claim to be anywhere near perfect to anyone. In my opinion, so much of the conversations on here are people trying to sound smarter than others when we are ALL sinners.

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    1. What can any of us say amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42? Or what would you like me to say? Or would you prefer for others to say nothing? Or could you point out those you would like to hear from, and those others not so much?

      I suppose I am trying to understand and get a clear picture and connect the dots of your statement “In my opinion, so much of the conversations on here are people trying to sound smarter than others when we are ALL sinners.”

      I think I am kind of connecting the dots, but maybe not in the way you would like me to.

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  6. thank you for the detailed information on what constitutes abuse and the discussion of forgiveness. I learned I was abused by my father for years …after he had been dead for a couple of years. I have been in therapy ever since. I am a lapsed Catholic and have tried multiple times to forgive my father. I cannot. Other than kill me he did the worst things you can do to a child. He showed no remorse for any kind of abuse. Letting go of the duty to forgive lightened the load I carried.

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