Ex-minister of secretive sect admits to child sex abuse
(L-R) Lauren Rohs, Sheri Autrey and Michael Havet – pictured here as children
By George Wright
BBC News
Robert Corfield, a man who abused a boy in a secretive Christian church in the 1980s, has spoken publicly about what happened for the first time.
He was confronted by the BBC as part of a wider look into claims of child sexual abuse spanning decades within the church, known as The Truth.
His name is one of more than 700 given by people to a hotline set up to report sexual abuse within the church.
The sect says it addresses all abuse allegations.
The church, which has no official name but is often referred to as The Truth or The Way, is believed to have up to 100,000 members worldwide, with the majority in North America.
The potential scale of the abuse has been captured through a hotline – set-up last year by two women who say they were also sexually abused by a church leader when they were children. People have phoned in claiming they too were abused, with testimonies stretching back decades through to present day.
The highly secretive and insular nature of the church has helped abuse to thrive, say former and current insiders who spoke to the BBC. It has many unwritten rules, including that followers must marry within the group and keep mixing with outsiders to a minimum.
The church was founded in Ireland by a Scottish evangelist in 1897 and is built around ministers spreading New Testament teachings through word-of-mouth.
One of its hallmarks is that ministers give up their possessions and must be taken in by church members as they travel around, spreading the gospel. This makes children living in the homes they visit vulnerable to abuse, the insiders said.
Warning: This article contains details some readers may find upsetting
Robert Corfield (L) told the BBC he sexually abused Michael (R) for six years.
Former church member Michael Havet, 54, told the BBC he was abused by Robert Corfield in the 1980s, from the age of 12.
“People called me ‘Bob’s little companion’ – I just felt dirty and still do,” says Mr Havet, speaking from his home in Ottawa.
After abusing him, Mr Havet says Mr Corfield would force him to kneel beside him and pray.
“I had to work hard to get past that and find my prayer life again,” he says.
When confronted about the child abuse allegations by the BBC, Mr Corfield admitted that they had taken place for about six years in the 1980s.
“I have to acknowledge that’s true,” he said.
Mr Corfield was a minister – known within the sect as a “worker” – in Saskatchewan, Canada, at the time of the abuse.
This is the first time he has publicly admitted to child abuse, though he has previously been confronted by church members and wrote two private letters to Mr Havet in 2004 and 2005 which asked for forgiveness and said he was seeing a therapist. In one letter, Mr Corfield said he was “making a list of victims”.
“We don’t want to miss anyone who has been a victim of my actions,” he wrote.
However, when asked about this by the BBC, Mr Corfield said that there were no other victims “in the same sense that Michael was”, and that he had given two or three other teenagers massages.
Abuser given ‘fresh start’
Mr Havet is among a dozen people who have told the BBC that widespread abuse has been ignored or covered up in The Truth for decades – with some of the accused remaining in powerful positions for years.
The way his own case was dealt with by the church is a prime example, believes Mr Havet.
He reported his abuse in 1993 to Dale Shultz, Saskatchewan’s most senior church leader – known as an “overseer”. Overseers are the most senior members of the church and there is one for each US state and Canadian province where there is an active following.
But Mr Shultz didn’t go to the police – and, says Mr Havet, violently assaulted him a few weeks later because he thought he had told others of the abuse claims.
“He grabbed my shoulders yelling at me, slamming my head against a concrete pillar,” says Mr Havet, “splitting it open and causing it to bleed.”
If you are affected by any of the issues in this story, visit the BBC Action Line.
Mr Havet says Mr Shultz then “encouraged” him to leave the church – while his childhood abuser, Robert Corfield, was just moved to be a minister across the border, in the US state of Montana.
Mr Corfield told the BBC that he believed it was Mr Shultz’s decision to send him to Montana, where he remained in post for 25 years.
“It was suggested it would give me a fresh beginning and probably also put space between me and the victim,” he said.
Mr Corfield was removed as minister last year after being confronted about Michael’s abuse by another congregation member, according to internal church emails seen by the BBC. One email also suggested “it is possible there may be additional victims”.
The ex-minister told the BBC that he “voluntarily stepped down when the accusations of Michael were presented” against him, and that he had “not been informed of any allegations beyond that.”
When contacted by the BBC, Dale Shultz said via email that “much of the information that you have received concerning me is distorted and inaccurate”. However he declined to go into any further detail.
A global crisis
Mr Havet is one of more than 1,000 current and former members of the sect to have contacted a hotline set up by campaign group, Advocates for The Truth.
The group was founded last year by Americans Cynthia Liles, Lauren Rohs and Sheri Autrey.
They say they have been given the names of more than 700 alleged perpetrators in 21 countries, including the UK, Ireland, Australia and Russia. They plan to build cases against those on the list and take them to the police.
All the women used to belong to The Truth and Lauren Rohs and Sheri Autrey say they were abused by the same man.
That man was Ms Rohs’ father, a senior minister called Steve Rohs.
Lauren Rohs traced Ms Autrey after reading her anonymous online account of childhood sexual abuse, in 2019.
In the post, Ms Autrey described how her abuser would sing Maneater by 80s pop duo Hall & Oates to her when she was in his bedroom at night.
Ms Rohs knew immediately that the man being described as the perpetrator was her own father, as it was the same song she remembers him singing to her as a child.
“I sat there stunned,” says the 35 year-old. “It disoriented me beyond belief.”
She says that her father subjected her to years of sexual, physical and emotional abuse from as early as she can remember.
Meanwhile, Ms Autrey says Steve Rohs stayed at her family home in Tulare County, California, for two months in 1982 – when she was turning 14 – and molested her daily.
He would sing Maneater because “a part of his manipulation was that I was this wild seductress”, the 54-year-old says.
Sheri Autrey, seen here as a child
There is a 20-year age gap between the two women. By the time his daughter was born, Mr Rohs had given up his role as a worker and started a family in San Diego, California. They later moved to Washington state, Idaho and Colorado.
Lauren Rohs says her father gave various reasons for their constant moving, including that “God needs us in a new place”.
The BBC put all the allegations to Mr Rohs in emails and social media messages, but he did not respond.
Abuse culture persists
Ms Rohs says during her time in the church in the 1990s and 2000s, workers were like “demigods” and never questioned, and that callers to the abuse hotline confirm that this culture persists today.
Like Mr Havet, Ms Autrey says she spoke out about her abuser – and he was protected.
In 1986, she confided in her mother about being abused by Steve Rohs.
“I felt scared, dirty, ashamed, embarrassed, and guilty,” says Ms Autrey, who was 17 at the time and believed she would be in “big trouble”.
But her mother believed her right away and reported the man to the California state overseer, who has since died.
In a letter dated 11 May 1986, written by Mr Rohs and seen by the BBC, he admits to the overseer that he and the teenager “did kiss and touch each other intimately” and that he had “begged for forgiveness” ever since.
Mr Rohs was later brought to Ms Autrey’s home by workers where he verbally apologised to her.
“I responded that he was not sorry for what he had done or he would have apologised long before,” Ms Autrey recalls.
Steve Rohs, pictured in the 1980s
Despite admitting to child abuse, Mr Rohs remained a respected and influential member of the church. His daughter says he was even promoted in 1994 to being a church elder – a person of seniority who holds meetings in their own home.
The BBC understands he now lives in Minnesota with Ms Rohs’ mother – their daughter is estranged from them both. He works as an insurance agent and was an active member of The Truth until April last year, after his daughter and Ms Autrey brought their allegations to the state’s overseer and he was removed from meetings.
The floodgates open
The catalyst for the hotline was the death of Oregon’s overseer, Dean Bruer, in 2022.
He was one of The Truth’s most respected leaders and had worked for the group for 46 years, across six US states.
An internal letter was written by his successor which stated Mr Bruer had a history of abuse including “rape and abuse of underage victims”.
It is not clear what the motivation behind writing the letter was but it leaked and soon found its way onto Facebook and TikTok.
Then more people started coming forward to tell their own stories of abuse.
“I think we thought the hotline was solely for Dean Bruer victims but what the hotline did was just open the floodgates,” Ms Rohs says.
The friends say they now want the kind of justice they didn’t manage to get for themselves.
“When I found Sheri it was a really rather rare and massive healing,” says Ms Rohs.
“It has been distressing as survivors to go back and hear the amount of filth and evil,” Ms Autrey says.
“Ours was bad enough but to see other people in such terrible situations – it’s beyond angering. It’s been ugly but also very rewarding.”
Ms Autrey stepped down from the Advocates in December.
Michael Havet, 54, continues to be affected by the sexual abuse he experienced as a child
Because The Truth has no official leader, the BBC instead put the allegations to more than 20 overseers in North America, via email.
The only one to respond was Rob Newman, the overseer for California.
“We actively address all abuse allegations involving participants in our fellowship,” he wrote in an email, before Mr Corfield’s confession.
“Our paramount concern is that victims receive the professional help that they need. We take all allegations of abuse seriously, strongly recommend mandated reporter training to all, and encourage everyone to report issues to the proper legal authorities.”
Ms Autrey believes change will not happen before any culpable overseers are jailed.
“It’s an extremely well-oiled machine for criminals,” she says.
“It’s a perfected system that has gone on for 12 decades.”
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66449988
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Previous WINGS posts relating to Corfield:
Robert Corfield removed from work
Scott Rauscher letter to Montana and Wyoming Friends
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Equally criminal to Mr.Corfield is Dale Shultz who assaulted a boy and covered up Corfield’s crimes. Mr. Shultz needs to be brought to justice now!
If it is true, about Dale Shultz, I would assume that he has resigned? If not, why are people not writing and requesting his resignation.
This has bought absolute disrepute to the fellowship.
It needs a whole new culture change and that can never be achieved with the same people at the top.
To “HaveWalkedAway”
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Many of us completely agree with you, and many have tried to insist on the resignation of those in positions of “authority”, who have allowed so much damage be done. There are letters posted on this website, signed by hundreds of friends, asking for their resignation.
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Not much change yet. The arrogance of these men, clinging on to their power and authority, is disgusting. Why do we let them steal and degrade what is precious to us, our fellowship?
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I still attend some meetings, but am not in a position to effect this change directly myself (though I pray for it). I have been desperately hoping that true friends and workers with more seniority and heft can insist on the dismissal of those who have failed us so badly.
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It will say something pathetic about us as a group if the only thing that removes them is arrest and prosecution (which should also happen).
Many fine, upstanding friends in the fellowship, as well as some Godly workers, have taken a brave stand in addressing the overseers. Sadly, the response has been that anyone is EXPENDABLE if they do not “toe the party line” by their unquestionable support of the overseer’s corruption/criminal behaviors. This is the reality of the situation.
Now Mr. Corfield and Mr. Shultz need to be persecuted to the fullest of the laws in each respective country.
Justice for Mr.Corfield will be dependent on the victims and it is entirely their choice to move ahead or not. There are no Statutes of Limitation on CSA in Canada so any offense against a child occurring in Canada has the potential to move ahead at any time.
The leadership needs to be brought to justice because it is their cover up actions for many decades that have enabled the meeting system to become a cesspool of abuse. I doubt that there is an innocent overseer anywhere in the world. They had all the information and have not only deliberately covered up the crimes, but have allowed it to continue.
There is little sign of movement at the leadership level even after everything that has happened and come to the light. For most places, it is back to business as usual. Secrecy, opaqueness, no accountability. Ripe for a continuation of abuse. Parents beware!
Moderator, if possible, please remove my surname from my previous post, as I am not in a hurry to further alienate family. Just “Andy” will do fine. Thanks. I didn’t see another way to edit
Edit:
Corfield and others still seem to use religion as a form of avoidance/regression.
For them, it’s like adult thumbsucking. I have no desire to do him any harm: but remember in dealing with these these people, don’t be fooled. We appear to be dealing with very nice hypocrites, not good men.
We can’t change names, only the body of text. I deleted it and will include it as an edit to this one.
“Ms Rohs says during her time in the church in the 1990s and 2000s, workers were like “demigods” and never questioned, and that callers to the abuse hotline confirm that this culture persists today”. That is so true!
Workers are like “demigods”!!! Demigods is a being with partial or lesser divine status, such as a minor deity, the offspring of a god and a mortal, or a mortal raised to divine rank. This is a human with a title of “worker”, who everyone else is in subjection to. The power and control that comes with the title is completely unearned and so easily abused as shown by both men and women who have the title. Just do not question them. That is not your place.
Exactly my thoughts, never question never doubt and your soul would be lost and damned forever if you ever questioned it.
Have I read this right?
In 1993 it was reported to an overseer that Robert Corfield had sexually abused a child.
And in 2023, he was removed from the work.
30 years later? THIRTY YEARS? 30 years of moving freely among children in a position of trust?
Is this what happened?
And the survivor was also subject to physical assault by the overseer? Is he still in the work?
He was removed from the work by two men – non workers – who confronted him. The overseer in his state continues to protect him.
Robert Corfield is not still in the work, but he IS being allowed to go to meetings, so Scott Rauscher should be put up on charges of KNOWINGLY gifting him potential new victims, as should any Elder allowing him to attend a meeting in his home!!
However, Robert, is just one of hundreds!!
What else would anyone expect?! “Robert Corfield is not still in the work, but he IS being allowed to go to meetings”. Part of the good ol’ boys club! It doesn’t, and won’t, change. A ” brother worker” was found to have caused harm to our family, but nothing can be done to a brother worker. We had enough of “the way”. We left and never looked back. It’s very good having that in the rear view mirror.
@Good Ol’ boys club – I have faith that things WILL change, as I am moved by God to DO things, I am. I’m sure it’s not going to be liked by some, but it is necessary. God brought this out in the open for a reason, and it’s time for change. We need workers who care about what Jesus said, how things were set up by Jesus and His apostles/disciples, etc. If the ministry doesn’t want to follow Jesus, then what are they doing besides living the life of Riley on everyone else’s dime!?! Some are collecting money on Sunday’s and at other times, and not passing on any extra to their overseers as they are supposed to be doing (so the money can be used for overseas or whatever) and they now have large bank accounts or have purchased expensive items to sell at a later date (when they leave the work) so they have a retirement stash, others have invested money in the stock market and are far more wealthy than most who give…and then, there are some who are going in faith (or at least trying, to some extent). I do believe these people were all called, some have kept true to their calling, other’s have not, but it’s hard to find a job outside of the ministry that pays as well, so they stay. Let that sink in!
Concerned Mum – I believe your last question was ‘is this particular overseer still in the work’.
Since I have not seen any resignations at the board of directors level, I can only assume he is still in the ‘work’. I am not too certain of the type of work he is involved in – let’s just say he is still employed as a C-level executive in the enterprise. There no doubt was less than 50% of the popular vote that wanted him to step down.
Aww yes, the ‘following’ is king, and it appears like following the King seems to be of little urgency or importance to many?/most? in the ship of fellows as the finger writes on the wall. I suppose many think they are following the King because they are following vicariously through those that say or insist they are following the King. I read of a man that lost his head one time – was it because he accepted a following that belonged to Christ? Oh well, sometimes shite happens.
Observer — “I still attend some meetings, but am not in a position to effect this change directly myself”.
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Nobody is in a position to change leadership. Leadership is in charge, even of leadership. What you have is what you will have with the leadership. What it amounts to is total power and control from the top down, a tyranny of cruel and oppressive rule. Remember do not fret when others carry out their evil. Instead get out from under evil, flee from them, and wait on the Lord. He has a plan and place for you. Be patient.
@flee from evil – I don’t agree with this. I’m 60yo, and I know that an “overseer” was removed from Virginia, thanks to the Elders stepping up and coming together as a state, and telling William Lewis that he was no longer welcome…and head held high…William headed to Texas to wreak havoc there instead. Shame on the Elders in Texas for not telling him to get out!!
So, what I’m getting to is; if the ELDERS would DO their job, this stuff would and could be stopped. But, I’ve travelled (only 2 states I haven’t been to), and lived in, several states, Canada, and Mexico…and I could count on ONE hand how many Elders I’ve met that are truly taking their position seriously, as the OVERSEERS. The Elders were referred to as the “Overseers” in the scripture, and when the ministry had an issue they would take the Elders with them to get things straightened out! Which is what SHOULD be happening today. Our Head Workers (who claim to be “overseers) don’t have the knowledge, the resources, the mental capacity, the training/schooling, nor the biblical understanding to handle criminal behavior. We aren’t talking about someone who has just called someone else “fat”, or “didn’t invite someone over, when everyone else was invited”, or “offended someone by not having enough chairs out at a meeting” or ? We are talking about CRIMINALS. Those who PREY on others. Those who’s ONLY desire to be in meeting is to find their next VICTIM. They are the BEST groomers in the whole world!! I’ve watched them grooming the workers, the friends, family…it’s sickening, once you realize what they are doing. Once you SEE it, you can’t UNSEE it!!
henoffour: How much do you KNOW of all this privileged money based ministry. Knowing everything you know about the money and the worker’s behavior IS really scary. If what you say is true; How do you sleep at night knowing all these criminal CSA/SA abusers and all their history? You have an obligation as you oblate; to provide all you know to all the proper authorities. How do you begin? Wings or Advocates for the Truth would be a good source. Especially the Head ‘investigator’ Cynthia Liles, who was part of the three who formed WINGS.
Yes, Especially since you have such a burning desire to in your heart to know everything you can and to help each criminally destroyed, hurting soul. Yes, we realize ‘once you see it, ‘you can not unsee it’ AND it is sickening. If what you say is true:: Perhaps you need witness protection for you and your lovely family as people who have ill-gotten money are prone and will kill to protect it. You have names and proof of accounts: please share this with WINGS as their purpose is pure; not like what George Peterson decided was their solution.
The behavior of hiding money in workers own name and for own benefit is as criminal as CSA/SA. Their mind is just as twisted as they ‘groom” all their givers to give freely. Which most of us only know and recognize as such a lovely worker, who gives their all for us. With your ability to recognize and learn such valuable information, please do more than Post:, the victims are in great need as there is very successful therapy recently available to help them to live and be successful in a life mostly free from constant triggers.
And remember in Jesus’ earthly ministry and that of the 12 apostles their were NOT “elders’: all religious functions were either in the “Temple” or for those too far away to travel only a Sabbboth day’s journey; their religious functions were in a Jewish synagogue as was Jesus’ custom on the Sabbath day. Luke 4:15
What did Jesus preach? Prophecy: concerning Himself and God’s purpose for that Nation of Israel to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Isaiah 61:1 – :2(a) ((THIS is at hand! Your king (of your kingdom is in your midst.)). What was the reaction of those Jews in their synagogue? Luke 4:20 – :22 then :23 – :30!
If you read the continuing of Isaiah’s prophecy in :2(b) – :11 you will see WHAT Jesus did NOT tell those Jews in Luke 4:and their promised, covenanted future Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. No wonder those Jewish worshippers reacted the way they did! Elders were and are only in the dispensation of the Grace of God given to Paul to dispense.
Cynthia is not associated with WINGS. WINGS was established in 2008 by others. We are supportive of her work.
@ Fled – Cynthia is aware, and she’s not part of Wings. The FBI is now getting involved, and I’m sure they will have all the information they need to proceed. Should they show up at your door, I would suggest honesty. I state this, because they are now knocking on doors. Many think “not much is happening”, but just because YOU don’t see things happening doesn’t mean it’s not. Every T and i dotted, to be sure they get it right.
There are Elders talked about in Numbers…long before Jesus was born.
I think you need to do a study on the word “overseer”, there are numerous references to what an Elder is (or at least SHOULD be). The Apostles were told to set up Elders in every City by Paul. I don’t think he decided this on his own, as I’m sure he would have conferred with Peter (who had been with Jesus)…or that part of the scripture would not have been preserved. There was much other scripture written, but it didn’t end up in what is known as the King James Version of the Bible. The ministry was never referred to as the Overseer, a Shepherd, nor the foundation. Jesus called his Apostles SHEEP (verse 10), in Luke 10 he called the disciples LAMBS (verse 3) and referred to those who would go as laborers. They were to bring the message of Christ. Bring peace into our homes. Have faith enough to “Go in faith”. The Elders were also referred to as “officers” in Numbers 11, in Acts 20, Paul is speaking to the Elders and refers to them as Overseers.
The suggestion that has recently come from some workers that are very frustrated with the Overseers non-actions and the way things are currently set up, is IF you choose to give, only give enough for them to buy a meal if they are travelling or to offer to pay for the hall/building where they are to have meetings, or take them shopping for a new skirt or pants (one YOU can afford, not at Macy’s where they would stand out – because Jesus didn’t stand out, he could easily assimilate into a crowd of people). It used to be that cash wasn’t given, but rather necessary things were offered. If they turn it down, they get nothing. I knew a single mother who offered some items (it was all she could afford) and she was mocked and scolded for offering such a meager, personal item (it was a new toothbrush and tube of toothpaste) – that worker has since passed, and I am betting he’s now wishing he’d have accepted that offering. Because he offended one of God’s lambs.
This way, there’s no cash piling up. The accounts I was referring to are in the individual person’s name – so, no one else has access to those accounts (but, we do know the approximate “take” after a Sunday Gospel meeting – it’s dwindling, but still enough for hoarding money to happen). People need to think before they give. If you know someone in a foreign country isn’t getting much, send your offering to them. Some of our lesser known workers are barely getting by, while others who are more charismatic are having their pockets loaded!
If workers have stuff stashed in your home…make them come and get it. That’s not going in faith – with no shoes, scrip, purse, etc as Jesus commanded. What they have done with our offering is something they will have to answer for…we gave in Faith. I do not recommend asking for your offering to be returned.
A sabbath day’s journey was approximately 3/4 of a mile, which they would have all lived close enough to the temple at that time to not need to go any further.
Henoffour, you said, “@flee from evil – I don’t agree with this. I’m 60yo, and I know that an “overseer” was removed from Virginia, thanks to the Elders stepping up and coming together as a state, and telling William Lewis that he was no longer welcome…and head held high…William headed to Texas to wreak havoc there instead. Shame on the Elders in Texas for not telling him to get out!!” Originally it was noted, “Nobody is in a position to change leadership. Leadership is in charge, even of leadership. What you have is what you will have with the leadership. What it amounts to is total power and control from the top down, a tyranny of cruel and oppressive rule”.
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Henoffour, you confirmed leadership is in control. The bad guy was no longer tolerated in Virginia, so leadership moves the bad guy to another state, Texas. The bad guy didn’t make the move on his own. Leadership of “the way” facilitated that move. It’s the same when there is sexual abuse, or spiritual abuse by a worker. Even with all the exposure these matters are now getting, workers are still retaining their position and simply being moved around. The membership may have a win, like in Virginia, but then Texas losses,
with the bad guy being moved to Texas. Nothing has changed, it’s just the chess pieces being rearranged. The kings are still kings and can go anywhere. The pawns are expendable. Membership are the pawns.
@Flee From Evil – I agree…William was moved to another state by the hierchy. But, you CAN get rid of the rotten apples, and if ALL the Elders in EVERY state would do their JOB…the ones who THINK they have the authority and are moving the beasts around wouldn’t have anywhere to send them…and the Elders here could notify the people in any country they would try to send them to! There is a way to stop this, but it is going to take REAL men and women standing up to the hierchy (those who think it’s a good idea to be an “overseer” while in the ministry – which is completely against what Jesus told those who went into the ministry to do/not do)…until they get it through their heads that what they are doing is wrong…or they end up in jail!!
Henoffour, your points are very valid: “There is a way to stop this, but it is going to take REAL men and women standing up to the hierchy (those who think it’s a good idea to be an “overseer” while in the ministry – which is completely against what Jesus told those who went into the ministry to do/not do)”. The workers are viewed as the ruling class, and the overseers are at that pinnacle. The elders know this. Most elders wouldn’t dare go against an overseer, and if they did they know their place as an elder could, and would be stripped very quickly. Everybody knows their place, therefore, “REAL men and women standing up to the hierchy”, for anyone with position already, won’t do it. It’s not standing for principle, or even Christ. Instead it’s abiding by obedience to the hierarchy of the way, and the status quo. As for, “Jesus told those who went into the ministry to do/not do”, the overseers don’t care, because they are the ” overseers “, above all. The status quo will remain, because the overseers are not going to relinquish power. It’s that simple. They are over, and above all.
@Flee from Evil – then, they shouldn’t be Elders if they won’t stand up to the Overseers – who are out of line even by their title!
No true servant of God would allow a wolf free access to the sheep/lambs. If they are honest and want to be true to God in their calling, they would remove them permanently and report them all to the authorities.
If you know of someone who lives in Washington who needs help/care (that was a victim here), please have them email me at henoffour@gmail.com. I will get them in touch with those who are handling the fund that has been set up for victims here to get help. It’s a pity every state isn’t doing this, as the ministry is responsible for the majority of the criminal behavior that’s harmed the sheep/lambs, so they should be making the effort to set up a fund to get whatever help the victims need to make things right as best they can. The victims should be given the opportunity to choose their source of help, with no input from the ministry, other than paying for the treatment.
When Steve Rohs’ CSA behavior was reported to the California overseer in 1986, apparently nothing was done. Was the infamous “Uncle Eldon” Tenniswood the California overseer during the time period? If so, this is very sickening.
henoffour Thank You for your considering. It is good to know Cynthia IS AWARE.
Your warning will be taken lightly because this is behavior dating back to Wm Irvine. We really doubt that as Wm. made his world tours by ship to each Nation and arrived at each convention: that it used to be “that cash was not given but rather necessary things”. It would have been rather awkward for him to transport things from conv. to conv. with all the conventions like in the U. S.until he arrived back on the ship to proceed to the next nation. The record backed by documentation is that he arrived at convention, and often just in time to collect the money.
henoffour It is as you refer; this is not a minor issue! This is about abject CRIMINAL Behavior and who they PREY ON; it is sickening! Those who think they have authority; have absolutely NOT even human dignity let- alone moral compass.
In 1988 the subject of “In Dissecting Sexual Misconduct” a “plea
was made to Taylor Wood and the Church. This included Ira Hobbs, Horace Burgess, Roy Dietzel, Gilbert Reese, Kenny Wahlin, George Gittens. Also in 1989 Willis Prop, Lecil Sullivan, Berlin Raymond, Niels Jogensen, Doyle Copelan, Tharold Sylvester and Mike Thorensteinson. This CSA/SA at that time a group tried to address.They were black-balled. Some who did NOT back down from demanding honesty and solutions to protect children and sister-workers; they were excommunicated.
In 2008 WINGs was involved and Ray Hoffman wrote a letter about Ira Hobbs THAT was to be distributed to every member of 2×2’s in Texas which tried to explain Ira’s sexual criminal behavior. All the while trying to cast doubt and suggest maybe behavior did not happen.
BUT Ray had the “gaul” to praise Ira’s guidance and help in every way in Texas the last 10 years: as Ray “”HAS sought the Lord diligently” and “faithfully” FOR YOUR CARE””! ((Ira so loves to call “HIMSELF” ‘Your Humble Servant’ ! ))
In 1989, Murray Keene and Jon Platte on Sunday July 8 attended meeting at Ralph Crist’s; and announced “we would not “partake of the ’emblems’ explaining that Dale had sent out letters AND was out of fellowship WITH the “church”!. Elders Albert Hagens, Ralph Christ, Bob Christ: all elders were involved and knew the facts .! Yes, these “spirit led” wurkers and elders have a long HISTORY(that is recorded).
Even now; they LOVE to say they are “spirit – led”: even NOW in 2023! They are: 2 Cor. 11:13-:15. The are! It is”spirit” of “satan”!
henoffour Do you realize that Jesus and his 12 witness’ worshipped in the Jewish Temple? If they were not in Jerusalem they went into the “synagogue” on the Sabbath as Jesus did in Luke 4:14-:15 in Galilee.
Luke 4:16 Jesus came to Nazareth,…., as was his custom; he went into the “synagogue” on the sabbath day. :31, :44 of Galilee. ((Remember that is where the 12 apostles all lived and had homes and families)) Nazareth was closer than Galilee to Jerusalem; BUT both were more many, many miles from Jerusalem: so all believers did not LIVE less than 3/4 of a mile from the “temple”.
Acts 2: explains that on the Jewish “Feast Day of Pentecost” – :5 at Jerusalem, “devout Jews” out of every nation under heaven. :6 the “”multitude”” :7-:11 heard Peter
:said unto them :14-:22 “prophecy”
:22-:23. Ye men of Israel, Jesus of Nazareth… ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain…
:36 Peter again testifies that all the house of Israel, know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, BOTH Lord and “Christ” (= Your promised Messiah, King and Judge). For this sin they had to repent and be washed according to the Law of Moses in the Name of Jesus Christ for “the remission of sins” AND ye (= believers; those Jews) would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit .
Result: Acts 2:41 – :46 All 3000 believers did the Apostles “Doctrine”!
:45. sold their possessions and goods – had all things common
:46 and they continuing daily with one accord in the “temple”….
Who follows Jesus and the 12?? These Jewish believers in Jerusalem – stayed in Jerusalem that year as they waited together for their promised, covenanted, Kingdom of Heaven on Earth Acts 3:1 – 8:1 all scattered abroad EXCEPT the “apostles”….
You must have a lot of time and a lot of ‘heart to heart’ trust – – deeply involved friends and wurkers. That puts you in a place of great place and great responsibility. You cannot make a mistake in God’s Word or in mis – judgement! Result in Numbers 20:10 – :12.
The reference you gave about the “elders”; long before Jesus as God, the Son; was born IS referring to those who were “old” – ‘heads or leaders’ of the 12 tribes of Israel by ‘birth’ and their families; as the seventy who assisted Moses.
Also, the seventy, Deuteronomy 27:1 Moses commanded their responsibility when they went into the promised Land. This we have never seen an ‘elder’ in meeting do.
Then Solomon assembled; members of the “Sanhedrin’ the “elderly” consisting of the chief priests, elders and scribes: learned in the the Law of Moses.
As God’s Word continues into what Man has labeled The ‘New Testament’ Math. 26:47 shows how “trust worthy” this group was. Another example is: Acts 6:11 – :15 AND END RESULT is Acts 7:51 – :60.
Yes, these are examples of “how your solution” is tried and proven lacking. Yes, even against God, the Son, who became flesh and walked in their midst. Acts 7 was even against God, the Holy Spirit in Stephen.
What is different Now that the ‘prince of the air’ still has that power over “elders and the ministry” who do not “know or believe” God’s Word??
Fled or astounded or whatever your current name is, why do you post under so many different names? Do you think that we will think a multitude of people think like you do?
You keep bringing up the apostles worshipped in the Temple, worshipped in synagogues, etc. is it possible that they really listened to Jesus when He told them there would not be one stone left upon another? Is it possible it was more a place to reach out to the people of that day with the gospel message?
This brings up another point, where do we get the idea that a child of God is always led by the Spirit and therefore never sins or makes a mistake? Jesus says very clearly that to enter into His kingdom we must become a little child. And he will give his Spirit to help us. Can you name one person in the Bible who received the Spirit and never sinned after that. I only know of one, his name is Jesus. We are all sinners.
Have you ever noticed the church that had Jezebel in it? Says she was a prophetess, but was doing some pretty terrible things and causing others to commit adultery with her. The church was praised for putting her out, but did you notice what God said about her. I gave her space to repent, but she repented not.
@ Fled – You’ve already been proven wrong in your statement of my warning “being taken lightly”. I have gotten too many emails from people who actually read what I wrote.
Jesus did go into the temple’s and synagogues…and while he was there, he was encouraging them to leave and follow him.
History records that a “sabbath day’s journey” was equal to 3/4 of a mile. So, those who would have travelled farther were breaking that law. Exodus, Leviticus, Nehemiah, and Jeremiah all give instruction for the Sabbath day (the day we now refer to as Saturday).
I also think you are not reading the messages that I am referring to, so in taking them out of context, you are making them into something they aren’t.
I know you don’t like this group of people, that matters not to me. What does matter to me, is that change be made. Sitting on Wings or CCF or ATFF or any other site and whining about things or quoting scripture at people and not DOING anything to help or assist in any way, makes people come of as pathetic and uncaring. I come on here to see if there’s anything I can do to help someone who’s been abused, or who is struggling and needs a friend, or to get more information (Yes, I check into it first) to bolster something I’m working on or to know how to pray for someone or something. Not to hate, or spread hate. There’s enough of that in the world to go around. Which is why I put my email address on posts from time to time. I’ve made many new wonderful friends. I’m not on here to change anyone’s minds about this way, but it’s always interesting to see what specific workers have taught (being from their own opinions) to those who are under their toutlage. Things are SO different all around the USA even, never mind around the world! I know people who are being taught that Jesus & God are the same being…by workers. ??? I know some who are told it’s okay to divorce and remarry…by workers. ??? I know some who will leave a meeting if anyone mentions Paul…and they learned it from the workers that were present when we were there. I know some who don’t believe Jesus ever came out of the tomb, but believe he IS coming back (their thought is, that had he come out of the tomb that would mean he had already returned to the earth and we would be waiting for a 2nd coming – bizarre, but…again, it was the workers). I know some workers who believe the bottom of your skirts can’t be any shorter or longer than 4″ from the middle of your ankle bone or your salvation is risked. I know some have been taught that the ministry is “the foundation”…by the workers, or the ministry are “the shepherds”…because they were taught that by the workers. But, not a one of those statements are true! So, it seems to me there have been packs of wolves that have come in…and the Elders did NOTHING.
But, I DO know some Elders that DO take their positions seriously, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for them.
No. We DIDN’T know the facts. We simply didn’t believe Dale. The whole town was in an uproar. Ralph stated afterwards the Sun. AM mtg. felt like a funeral. J. (Dale’s daughter) was always friendly/cordial toward me– at the time I figured if Ira had done something, she’d have been otherwise. I was never told what Ira actually “did”, or when, or where it happened. Ira never said anything– he just stayed silent, looking “holy” and hurt. I wish Dale would’ve just went to the police or dragged Ira outside and let his Id Impulses handle it. Dale probably does too.
For my part, No– I didn’t “know the facts”. I just didn’t believe Dale.
Well, I remember the meeting Ur referring to. There was no conspiracy that I’m aware of– we just simply didn’t believe Dale. The “whole city” of Friends was in an uproar at the time about it.
henoffour. Feb 10. Thank you for your reply of Feb 10. Your heart and vigor are admirable. The pit of CSA/SA and the international sexual ring that has been exposed IS only a symptom. The leadership reaction to desperate, hurting, destroyed souls IS a symptom. The refusal to change protocol is a symptom. The Documented History reveals many symptoms. Your ability to fight for the wounded and demand change is not ignored by the wounded. It is ignored by the TOP DOGS. Those two recent ‘documentation’ from Peru IS heart wrenching and gut punching: their life is “hell” on earth – compliments of the TOP DOGS. We wish the adding-up of all facts DID NOT equal 2 Corinthians 11:13 -:15. You shall know them by their fruit!
Wouldn’t that be something if THE Courts here in the U.S. were able to receive the same results as those countries were it is a different culture and people are not ——– according to the HEAD INTERNATIONAL God LED MINISTRY as they pull the wool of their sheep covering over their eyes.
There are two definitions That have guided our study as we began to search for What is Really God’s Heart and Plan for humanity. The ministry was unable to explain or guide as their only capacity seems to destroy once there are question! Then with great expertise they craft and spread lies to turn ‘The Fellowship’ to keep one out of their orbit.
Definition #1 What is Truth? God’s Word as written in the Holy Bible
Definition #2 What is Faith? Taking God at His Word.
And we are grateful to learn here that Ephesians 6:11 – :18 explains NOT only Why we need the “Whole Armour” of God but Paul does something of great value: exactly what that armour Is! Ephesians 6:14 – :18: Ephesians 6:17our “helmet (on the head) of salvation and sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD of God:
And God’s WORD is the Gospel! Which is ‘God’s GOOD NEWS!
So to be able to understand what God has written in His WORD; we cannot be mislead or twist what God has written for our learning; with what God has written for our obedience.
(Just a confession we have is: we are grateful for those on this site who have been able to clarify certain scriptures that are for our learning but not for our doing; Thank You.)
Now we understand why Matthew 6:12, :14-:15 and Math. 18:35 Jesus says we must ‘forgive to be forgiven’. And some have said that is to Nation of Israel and their promised Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
Then Paul writes: Ephesians 4:32, Colossians 2:13, Col. 3:13 that “be ye kind, one to another, tender hearted, forgiving one another, EVEN AS God for Christ’s sake hath(past tense) “forgiven you”!!!
This site of Wings For Truth has been a balm for starting to heal and realizing that many are so wounded that healing will take a long time with much learning and then understanding what God’s Word really is to us, now. AND Paul explains a deep gap in man’s wisdom when he uses the Words in Romans 3:21. “BUT NOW”! (Did you ever hear :22-:26 in Gospel Meeting?) Just have some worker try to take that away from you)!
Ephesians 2:4, :2:13 referring to God’s exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us through Christ Jesus: etc……. for by Grace are you saved through Faith!! and that is NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God! Yes, Thank You Wings for helping us heal!
henoffour, thank you for your deep care and work for the destroyed and cast aside. We pray for your protection, wisdom and learning God’s word as written. Keep reading and studying and praying for God to give you understanding. God will!
In the UK, a cult minister called Percy Watkins committed suicide around 2015, after being targeted with “allegations”. This man had a wicked grin and a bad temper. He stayed in my childhood home in the early 1990s, when me and my brother were aged 5 and 2. Fortunately we escaped harm, because our parents were always floating about. I understand that David Amos is also being done by the Police. He once invited me to stay with him in the summer of 2011, at his rented Warwickshire cottage. I was 25 by then and nothing weird occurred, aside from him getting cross that I got up late and delayed his morning walk. A year later I quit the cult and attended one last day at what happened to be the final West Hanney cult convention. Mr Amos was not amused when he found out that “I wasn’t getting a full convention”. He shut down faster than a pub after Covid and stormed off.
Amen Is it possible that God’s Word says: very simple those 3000 Jews who believe: “continued steadfastly in the “apostles Doctrine”! No, it is not a perchance it happened. “Doctrine”. Is it possible to really read God’s word as written? Absolutely, we are all sinners! That is why we must read and know God’s Word as written. Anyone, even Astounded.
henoffour We appreciate your concern for the CSA/SA victims and your deep desire to do all you can by learning and knowing and understanding ALL you can so you can help.
We understand your agreement with some workers; if you choose to give: just give them something they ‘need’; to keep cash from building-up. I only replied that ‘the Way’ never use to be “that cash was never given” and gave the example which has been documented of HOW Wm Irvine lead as an example for all leaders. If you will watch the video of Jeff Slather, you will see that is STILL the method used by head workers.
We also understand the Law of travel on the sabbath and result of their sin: being “stoned to death”. That person did NOT repeat that sin! It is NOT that I did not believe what you said about 3/4 of a mile, but that “ALL believers of Jesus’ Gospel of their “Kingdom of Heaven on Earth” did not live in Jerusalem. As a result, in order to not break the Law God had given to Moses for the Chosen Nation of Israel: those who lived in other towns went to worship in their synagogue.
With our decades of listen to wurkers minister to the flock: we are very mislead and unlearned as you refer as you list several abject, bizarre teachings. This is the “Spiritual Abuse” that is so prevalent among the wurkers and is so misleading to all under their ministry. Luke 1:26 explains that prophecy concerning Israel’s King, Messiah and Judge: would be Mary’s son. Luke 1:31 Shall call his Name Jesus: and :32 shall be the Son of the Highest and the Lord God shall give unto him the “throne” of his father David. and:33 he shall reign over the “”house of Jacob”” forever which is the very “promised to Israel” ”Kingdom of Heaven on Earth”. Why would Jesus go into THEIR “Temple” which was to be His throne forever, and preach “their GOOD NEWS of their promised King and perfect Kingdom of Heaven on earth IS IN THEIR MIDST” and then ask His people to come out of His throne to follow “HIM =Jesus”.?? That is NOT what Jesus preached to his chosen Nation of Israel when and after Jesus was baptized. Matthew 4:17; Matthew 4:23, etc.
And an example is that when Jesus began His ministry to bring the Nation of Israel back to God, Jesus went into “the” synagogue in Nazareth” “”as was his custom(Yes, followed the Law of Moses to Jesus brethren, Israel before he was 30 yrs of age and in his ministry)
What did Jesus read to them? Luke 4:1-:22 Prophecy in Isaiah 61:1-:2(a) concerning himself. Jesus closed the book. Said: This day is “this” scripture fulfilled in your ears. Whose ears?? That Nation of Israel appointed by God to be a Nation of Priests in Exodus 19:5, :6AND next Acts 4:31: Jesus came down to Capernaum and went into that synagogue and taught on the sabbath. AND CAST OUT a devil. Then went into Simon’s house and healed Simon’s wife’s mother. These signs and wonders were prophesied and all who waited for their King would Know Jesus was this their King by His signs and wonders.
Luke 4: ends with :43 saying I must preach the “”kingdom”” of God” to other cities also, for therefore am I sent. :44 and he preached in the synagogues of Galilee. Jesus taught the Law of Moses Luke 5:14.
When Jesus sent the12 apostles; they also worshipped in the Temple. Luke 24:53, Acts 3:1 at the hour of prayer went up together at the 9th hour = Levitical Law given to Moses.
Acts 2:1-:46 Is the record of Peter’s first sermon after Jesus ascended from their midst. Peter and the 11 only preached to Jews in Jerusalem. Those 3000 who believed “continued stedfast in the 12 “apostles “Doctrine”…. :46. they did not leave the Temple to follow Jesus: They, continuing daily with one accord in the “Temple”, ….. That was Jesus “doctrine”also: (in my Father’s House – You have made my Father’s house a den of thieves)
The idea of appointing elders was definitely recorded in O.T.. It was successful only if they were led by God and NOT under satan’s control; when Israel was far from God. A very startling example is in the N.T. in Matthew 27:20. And Acts 6:11, :12, :13: Those seventy “elders” you, henoffour, refer to as “appointed in Numbers 11:16” by God through Moses were still again under “satans” control. Even when all saw Stephen’s face; with the very Holy Spirit,((Math. 12:31-:32) as it had been the face of an angel(Shekinah Glory):
Shultz should be gone along with the current overseer in California for his non-action also. He will not meet with those who want to meet with him. Kent please go away. Take with you the so-called overseer in Az also.
While the probability is high that most overseers are criminals with their knowledge of and cover ups of molesters, we know for certain Shultz is a criminal. Corfield is a confessed molester and there is a paper trail of evidence that Shultz covered it up. The BBC did an outstanding job on this story.
While the call for all overseers to resign seemed excessive to many, it is the right call. And those who covered up these crimes should turn themselves in to law enforcement. I think of the SK and MB overseers telling worker Bruce Waddell (Shultz would be part of that) to turn himself in (which he did), but refuse to do it themselves. This is beyond disgusting.
Totally true, “While the probability is high that most overseers are criminals with their knowledge of and cover ups of molesters, we know for certain Shultz is a criminal. Corfield is a confessed molester and there is a paper trail of evidence that Shultz covered it up”. One commenter said awhile back, and it is a good idea, “Maybe the group needs an international perp, ped, and perv list”. This could go along with a list of all the overseers, who have the power and control and that covered up the perps, peds and pervs. ….Not only do we have sick sexual deviants to deal with who hide under the cover of a title and a suit, which is unacceptable, there is the second layer that is just as horrendous; the evil overseers that knowingly cover for very bad humans, and so many look to them as if they were God.
@Cover Up – There’s a list…actually TWO lists. One that Abbi Prussak was keeping and one with Cynthia Liles (one of the ladies who helped out Dean Bruer).
@PD – Kent was supposed to be over the work in British Columbia, and was kicked out for his rotten behavior. Things won’t get any better with HIM being in charge of anything, but when you have Richard DenHerder deciding who should be in charge…yikes! He’s about as evil as it gets. His modus operandi is to move predators around so they can go find new victims, instead of being a man and removing them from the ministry and fellowship!
henoffour Feb. 6 post.
In reply to your post, it must be clarified that I, like you only come on here to do what I can to help; in any way. It is so very important for the understanding of God’s Word as written and in context: for the dear souls who have and are being affected so very deeply. When these wounded souls are able to understand “it is NOT their ‘fault’ or their ‘mistake’ BUT “LUST” that in some WAY controls a ‘wolf’ in sheep’ clothing. And are making a mockery of God’s Plan and purpose for God’s very own creation. Yes, for you and I, and every soul born.
I do not hate nor seek to spread hate. I have a very deep spiritual love and concern for each soul in this group. If quoting God’s scripture correctly by Jesus, God the Son and his 12 ‘apostles’ IS SPREADING “Hate”!: you explain what love is!
You are incorrect when you state: “I know you do not like this group of people”. You have NO IDEA the deep anguish which causes a continual prayer to God for each person. Having been controlled “myself” and suffering from knowledge that “I WILLINGLY” and with complete allowance for their control; live with the knowledge ”I” did this to myself. This I did NOT do with knowledge.
Knowledge was available, but with complete Faith and Trust I hung on every word and action. YES, it was my complete life. Is this unusual???
No, it just happens to be the story of everyone! That is why experience and knowledge takes to ‘rock bottom’! That is why when one is UNMERCIFULLY “Abused” in any WAY by those who claim they are doing so in and through God, Himself: — it is so devastating!
Not to mention being ‘cast-out’ or even removing oneself in self-preservation: then to face the ‘lost-out’ label and the manufactured lies: leading to a deep pit with no hope or reason. It is a soothing and healing balm to know God has so very wisely preserved his very Word and Plan; yes, available in English, in very plain language. It is our deep joy and healing when we take our responsibility to learn and know – then understand as Our Bible paints salvation’s picture of God’s Heart for each and every soul. It is because of God’s very Word, itself , that gave us the strength to be “Fled”. And it is with JOY we so remain.
Some have been so grievously preyed-upon and brutally, yes, physically and mentally destroyed; then left to be self taunted or even righteous leadership taunted: that their minds and bodies are diseased with self- loathing and triggers as strong as the act itself. How is it that anger and hate against this: is so strong that it affects even you, henoffour??? At least in your Posts.
How very grateful we are that “Advocates for Truth” were able to unlock the LID of the “Criminal Vat” where God’s children were cast to rot. WINGS had tried for decades but leadership was able to circumvent their best efforts to hide and control. UNTIL Recent, thank you.
Now there IS Hope for those who are wounded and suffering. Our goal is only to help them heal and know how to really learn “What is God’s Heart, Plan and Will for each and every soul to bring peace and hope and understanding with Joy”.. As you, henoffour, sometimes express your anger and hurt for those hurting souls; I do also.
@Fled – I think mostly we agree. Jesus did continue in much of the way he was raised, until he started bringing people out of those places with teaching them about who HE was, and why had come. Then, they left and followed him. We read of his people gathering in homes – and Him meeting in their homes with them, during his 3 1/2 years of being in the ministry. I do believe that what the Jews had and did was given to Moses by God, and it shows the heart of God. There were Elders even within the Jewish religion, and THEY were the ones who “policed” the people in the cities, because they had the authority, and they were doing it before Jesus came. I’m not saying the Elders are all right either, but my point is/was – it was NOT the ministry that had the authority to tell people what to wear, how to invest money, who to marry, etc. If our current ministers could/would understand that that is NOT something God or Jesus gave them that followed Jesus (the Apostles nor the Disciples), it is my opinion, that they would get off their high stools and come down to the people and stop abusing people, and DO what they were actually commanded to DO. There wouldn’t be workers that are at the top of the heirchy with the “you be quiet” ones below them. Yes, they seemed to be an Older and a younger one together because they could learn more from their older companion (or I should say, they SHOULD have been able to) as we see in the Bible. But, even in the Bible, the ministry (Paul) had to be corrected by the people.
Jesus came to fulfil all that was provided for those in the old testament and took what God had in place to a deeper level (within our souls – Matthew 5). So, my wonder is, do you think the “Temple” is a physical building we are to be attending or is it each person is now a Temple (I Cor 6)?
I do not blame people for stepping away, nor do I feel they are “lost”…and it’s my personal feeling that God is definitely not happy with our current ministry and hasn’t been for many decades. Look at the “fruit” they have borne?!! In the end it will truly boil down to our relationship with the God of Heaven, and our belief in His Son, and actually DOING what the Holy Spirit moves us to do. My one hope is that we ALL keep praying desperately and honestly. I know we each have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling…but, I’m thankful for Peter’s words “To whom Lord shall we go save Thee”. This has been a horrible revelation, but a good experience for the fact that it is driving people to their knees and prayers are more desperate and honest.
I keep reading, and keep seeking Jesus, and God is revealing more and more to me, but I still love attending our meetings, because we do love to share together and I can feel the Spirit of God there with us. When/if that ever changes…I have faith that the Spirit will speak to me/us and show us differently, but until then, I will continue in what brings me peace. (without supporting those who are refusing to do what God has made clear to the masses – because they believe they are the “anointed ones” and we aren’t). Those who have been victims (which probably every meeting has someone who’s been victimized – even if they aren’t willing to admit it) have the right to be able to attend any service or gathering without having to face predators, or to hear their voices over a phone line, or to know they are listening. I’m okay with them listening in to Gospel Meetings, but not any other type. Protecting criminals will not help anyone when standing before the throne…but, helping those who were preyed upon…that will bring mercy to a soul.
Thanks for helping me, and I’m glad to know I misunderstood what you were meaning.
When we consider the number of victims, who have reported cases of abuse and the number of perpetrators named, the scale of abuse is shocking. However, as the Executive of Advocates for Truth mentioned, “what we see is only the tip of the iceberg!” There is possibly a lot more abuse which has not been reported, perpetrators who have not yet been named as well as active abuse taking place somewhere, amid all the investigations.
It is all well and good to put policies in place. God has a great policy in place which has been there from the beginning. It teaches us how to live, yet these so-called Christian preachers were not following HIS policy.
What makes people believe that a policy put in place by man will have any changing effect? On paper, it may look and read good but it is the hearts that need to change for any real progress to be made.
The fact that man has to step in to bring order shows that the “meetings” are not following Christ. I refuse to be part of something that has moved away from Christ. No one is expected to be perfect but we must be true.
They set rules for people that they are not willing to follow themselves.
Matthew 23:4 KJV For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
This abuse has been allowed to multiply for years because the environment of lies, power, control, manipulation, psychological abuse, punishment of victims, deception and cover-ups made it possible.
Considering the numbers, the probability of being abused in the meeting is most likely higher than not being abused. This is a real risk.
Workers list show Eldon Tenniswood was the overseer of California in 1986. Eldon Tenniswood, however, had his own problems with child sexual abuse. So dealing with Steve Rohs child sexual assault was probably not a high priority. It was reported, “(Eldon Tenniswood) allegedly molested a family member of mine when the child was in the 5th-6th grade. At the time, the child never told his parents as it was “Eldon” and who would believe a child over Eldon…Eldon has passed away. However the pain and destruction Eldon left this victim lives on. That is something that never goes away. There is ZERO reason for this victim to come forward except that NOW there is finally a safe and trusting arena to do that in”. Eldon Tenniswood is, of course, the fabled long time oversees of California.
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It’s noted above, “In a letter dated 11 May 1986, written by Mr Rohs and seen by the BBC, (Mr. Rohs) admits to the overseer that he and the teenager “did kiss and touch each other intimately”. The overseer, Eldon Tenniswood, instead of expelling Rohs from ” the truth ” he made Rohs an elder. “Despite admitting to child abuse, Mr Rohs remained a respected and influential member of the church. His daughter says he was even promoted in 1994 to being a church elder – a person of seniority who holds meetings in their own home”
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A quote by Sheri Autrey is absolutely spot on. “Ms Autrey believes change will not happen before any culpable overseers are jailed.
“It’s an extremely well-oiled machine for criminals,” she says.
“It’s a perfected system that has gone on for 12 decades.” Since the days of it’s inception, the days of William Irvine, for the last 120 years this abuse has happened and it will continue to happen in “the truth”, an “extremely well-oiled machine for criminals”.
Interestingly, my father, who was an Elder and Ex-Worker, had meeting removed from our home because his children were not professing. My siblings and I all suspected something wasn’t right with this religion from a very young age.
Nicky, what you said is unquestionably true: ” the scale of abuse is shocking. However, as the Executive of Advocates for Truth mentioned, “what we see is only the tip of the iceberg!” The culture of the fellowship is to have obedience, and to be faithful, and to have silence. Those three characteristics are to be shown to the group more than anything else. If something happens that is different from the image the group projects, that is to be hidden and “forgotten”. My wonderful wife, who is in her 50’s, has dealt with a life long scar from when she was sexually molested by a professing man when she was only 12 years old. She was very afraid to tell anyone. When she finally told her mother, she was chastised. Her mother told her if she’d, ” Sat differently ” it wouldn’t have happened, and said, “not to make a big deal about it”. Her mother, who’s in her 90’s now, said ” things happened ” to her as well when she was young. The mother comes from the days of George Walker, when the founding church leaders ruled. Members of my family and young people I have attended meetings with have been sexually molested and nothing was reported. What is known about the sexual assaults in this group truly is “the tip of the iceberg”. If all was known that has taken place in regards to sexual assaults, this group wouldn’t exist, or at the least, it’s membership numbers would be significantly less. Fortunately there’s now websites like Wings For Truth and Advocates For Truth that can at shine 7light on the few cases that are brought forward. As more cases are exposed, hopefully members will feel free to talk of their own experiences despite the shame and hurt they carry. May God bless and heal all those that have been hurt so shamelessly.
Hi Tip of the Iceberg
I am really sorry to hear how your wonderful wife has had to suffer as a result of abuse. It’s sad that her Mum took such a position but a lot of people are brainwashed in the meeting. The whole business about it being the only way to salvation is what keeps people trapped in it.
Some years ago, I attended meeting with a couple who actually left it before I did. One day, my husband and I visited them at their home. I was starting find out some disturbing things about the meeting and felt that it would be a good idea to talk to the wife about them.
As soon as I began speaking, she said to me “there is nothing you can tell me about that meeting that would shock me.” I was not prepared for what she would say next. “My sister and I were raped by the same worker; I was thirteen at the time. It was proper sex,” she said. I was in shock!
Later she told me that her mother always believed that he had done it to other girls in the meeting. However, she never mentioned the name of the worker. Her husband then said that his brother was fondled by a brother worker as a kid.
These two people had sad stories of abuse. Her mother stayed in the meeting after her two daughters were raped. They grew up and stayed in the meeting and raised their children but the scars never went away. After many years they all left the meeting. It was years before any news of Dean Bruer.
I always say that if your children attended a school and were abused by the teachers and the principal kept the teacher in the job, most people would remove their children from the school. Even parents whose kids were not abused would move them out. The only reason people in the meeting tolerate this nonsense is because the “Salvation” card is held over them.
No one has to sacrifice their children to receive salvation. Leaders who abuse innocent children cannot lead anyone to salvation.
My Mum and her sister were abused as kids by a worker nearly sixty years ago. My grandad never allowed any workers to stay at his house with his children or grandchildren. His house was off limits when it came to spending the night. However, they would come for meals.
My Mum said that this particular worker would say to my grandmother that he loved children. While my grandmother would be preparing the meal in the kitchen, he would encourage them to sit on his lap and he would finger them.
This has been going on for years, this is why God is exposing it in this fashion. These are people who never thought they would have been exposed on this scale. They control the people and all the power has been with them.
Cult ministers live close with the membership and this is how they are allowed to psychologically manipulate and control them. Many of them start off as well-intentioned groups gaining the trust of the people.
Watch the story of Jim Jones- he started out not collecting any money. People willed stuff to his church etc. What happened in the end? Check it out!
Nicky, the events that you describe are heart wrenching. “These two people had sad stories of abuse. Her mother stayed in the meeting after her two daughters were raped. They grew up and stayed in the meeting and raised their children but the scars never went away”. The rape of these kids, and how your mom and sisters were sexually molested decades ago is like a punch to the gut. The very act of the sexual encounter by an innocent child is a turning point in the child’s life; they can never go back to being an innocent child. At the very moment of the perverted sexual act, the trajectory of the child’s life is forever changed. That small space in time for the sex act to take place will have a life long affect and impact. The child will never return to the innocence they enjoyed prior to the sex act. Everything is changed in that young, innocent mind. Future choices of how to act with other people changes with sexual inhibitions lost, and then the scorn and judgement that comes with that. All because a corrupt minded individual wanted to have their own way, and needed the obedience of an innocent child to do that. Innocent, obedience, faithfulness and then silence makes the perfect cover for a child molester. Then with the child molester being much older than the child, they are to be shown respect, and that coupled with the sexual molester being a worker, the highest form of respect is to be granted. That means if silence regarding the matter is requested, that will be faithfully obeyed. Throw into the mix a “celibate ministry”, abstaining from marriage and sexual relations, for religious reasons, and then mix into that the celibate ministry is living in with the very families that they are ministering to and that makes for a highly volatile situation where matters are liable to change rapidly and unpredictably, especially for the worse, and completely unknown to the parents. The groups defense to their “homeless ministry” is that it’s following after the example of the apostles in the Bible, conveniently leaving out that there were apostles with families of their own and that they had occupations other than preaching. For the apostles, illicit sex did not seem to be a factor either.
Jim Jones didn’t teach traditional Christianity, however, he had a Bible and used it for his own agenda. It was said, “He tried to control people’s bodies. He couldn’t stand it when people left the church”. Like with the fellowship, it’s controlled how people dress and you are shunned if you leave the group, and it is not traditional Christianity. Also, the people were in subjection to Jim Jones, were told when the mass suicide took place, to have their children drink the koolaide first, because if the kids were dying the parents would follow. The fellowship will not have a mass suicide event, but as Jim Jones had power, the fellowship holds the workers on another level (“Ms Rohs says during her time in the church in the 1990s and 2000s, workers were like “demigods” and never questioned, and that callers to the abuse hotline confirm that this culture persists today”). Also, children are ” the future of the kingdom “, so they “must be controlled”, sitting unnaturally, quietly through extended and frequent meetings. Also, if the children are to be sexually abused, this simply reinforces the subjection and workers control. It’s not a stretch to compare the fellowship to The Peoples Temple, that demanded loyalty, and fear was instilled in the followers. Just as fear is instilled in the fellowship in how they dress. Very, very few women in the fellowship wouldn’t dare step inside a gospel meeting without a dress on. Most fellowship women don’t wear a dress at home — but they have to look right for the workers; demanding they are obeyed and since they’re demi-gods, they are obeyed.
“Jim Jones didn’t teach traditional Christianity, however, he had a Bible and used it for his own agenda. It was said, “He tried to control people’s bodies. He couldn’t stand it when people left the church”. Like with the fellowship, it’s controlled how people dress and you are shunned if you leave the group, and it is not traditional Christianity”. Not traditional Christianity, or outside mainstream Christianity. The reason cults are so dangerous is because their thinking is outside the mainstream of Christian thinking.
“Cults”, you’re correct, “The reason cults are so dangerous is because their thinking is outside the mainstream of Christian thinking”. The leadership of cults has THEIR OWN thinking and beliefs. It’s no longer centered on Christ. It’s centered on the cult leadership. Leadership thinks women should wear a dress to all church services, or meetings, you wear a dress. No exceptions. Leadership overlooks, and downplays child sex abuse, and spiritual abuses, everyone is to do the same as that is the cult leadership thinking. You don’t like it, to bad. Deal with it or leave. Leadership overseers rule with an iron fist and have a lifetime rule, same as a dictator. That’s the way it is. It is what it is and it’s a cult.
It’s very sad to hear about your wife. I’m so sorry she’s had to endure such ugly, evil, behavior by both the man who hurt her and the generation of people who were parents and thought ugly stuff like this had to be kept a secret (for the sake of the family name).
Unfortunately, It wasn’t just people in this faith who are guilty of hiding this stuff…their whole generation (professing or not) grew up thinking it would mean a blemish to their name. But, one would think that if people are following the scripture, they would have done what the scripture demands (we are to follow the laws of our land), and the criminal behavior would have been immediately reported. Then, there’s ones like myself who were brainwashed into thinking that “you can’t report a brother to the law” meant that anyone who was professing could do anything they wanted and the victims were just to leave it to God to “avenge” (which I know He will do). But, I’ve had my eyes opened, and their is no pulling the wool over them again about this. Go straight to the hospital, and they will bring in the police, don’t stop and call the workers first! If you are still going to meetings – You can take the police report when you visit with the workers – and I suggest doing so face to face.
I also suggest calling the office of your state’s Sheriff and finding out what the law is in your state about the Clergy (which is ANY minister, preacher, priest, elder, bishop, sunday school teacher, etc.) and what YOU can do if any of them don’t report these types of crimes, OR if they allow sexual predators to attend meetings or gatherings of any kind. You don’t have to attend meeting to report them, either.
I had a beloved older sister who had what I considered a very dangerous attitude toward God. She was raised and a member of a major Protestant church. She told me shortly before her death that she watched TV every night and saw all the terrible things going on in the world, all the injustice. She said if God allows all these terrible things to happen, I don’t even want to know Him. I wonder how many of us put God in a little box and expect Him to always act in our certain way of thinking.
There seems to be another prevalent thought by many that any and every Church that God has established will have a faultless ministry and members that are Spirit led and will always make Godly decisions. This way of thinking is so against the teachings of Jesus that I am surprised it has such a hold on some. The parables of the good seed falling into the different soils and the parable of the tares are two prime examples that we should never expect such perfection this side of heaven. Jesus was also very clear that we would not always know the good from the bad, the weak brother we are admonished to help from the bed. There is a time for us to react, but we better make sure it is in Gods time and not ours. It is interesting to read of the Church that had a Jezebel in it. A prophetess that was leading them astray, causing them to commit adultery. God says I gave her space to repent. Then He said I will cast her out. They were simply to repent themselves and separate themselves from her. He then spoke of those who knew nothing about the situation and the reward they would have. We don’t want to get ahead of God.
Amen,
In all of my 100s of discussions on this issue throughout 2023, the idea of a faultless ministry never once popped up. Not. Once. So this is a red herring argument meant to distract from what are the issues: 1) a pattern of abuse within the fellowship going back decades, 2) a system that promotes, aids and facilitates abuse globally, 3) a system that conducts sex trafficking on an international scale, 4) a fellowship based on multiple false premise that collectively create an environment that promote and encourage abuse within its ministry and membership.
While we read of a church with a Jezebel in it, we are warned in multiple ways that wolves or their like will get in amongst the flock and kill. We have wolves that this system has promoted and aided in their endeavors for decades. How else do you describe older brother worker who sing and pray with their victims while they rape them? How else do you describe brother workers that tell children that “god told them to do it” as they rape them repeatedly? How else do you decribe men who blame children for seducing them as they rape those same children? How else do you explain a brother worker blaming a sister worker for her spirit as she is raped? I could go on and on. This issue is not about a Jezebel, it is about an unholy sickness.
Yet, instead of any feeling of remorse at aiding the actions above, when confronted with their part in aiding and covering up those atrocities, the leadership and upper membership of this fellowship defend them. They continue to defend their behavior, To. This. Day. Their response is to tell the victims to forgive and all will be made right. They have forgotten scripture where those committing fornication (which sexual abuse of any kind most certainly is) are to be separated from the church. Or worse, they were to be stoned. Instead of treating the crimes with any seriousness, victims are belittled and the perpetrator promoted. They have forgotten the words of Christ where Repentance preceded Forgiveness.
God has given multiple warning shots in recent decades regarding this garbage in this fellowship. They have been ignored and gone unheeded. The death of DB is God saying get off your rear or get out of the way. We are long past figuring out if God is prompting action, unless one is deaf to the voice and presence of the Holy Spirit wanting to remove the stain on his name.
@AMEN. You seem to be missing the point. It is NOT okay for abusers to be left in meetings where they have access to grooming children AND their parents. It is NOT OKAY to be aware that someone is abusing children and shuttle them off to another location to abuse MORE children. Has nothing to do with forgiveness or repentance that’s a whole different kettle of fish. This is basic common sense, basic care, basic love, basic compassion, all of which would be evident IF they REALLY had the Spirit of Christ.
It’s have sat in 1000s of meetings over 50 years and there was two things I heard over and over and over. If you’re going to meetings, make a mental note of these two go to sermons, and you will likely hear about them in your next meeting. Of all the topics in the Bible, many of which are never ever mentioned and should be, you will hear these topics Amen talks about more. Amen says, “(1) The parables of the good seed falling into the different soils and (2) the parable of the tares are two prime examples”. Can’t people recite more than these two topics out of such a vast wonderful Book?
Amen,
I for one do not expect a “faultless” ministry.
However I DO expect that ministers who perpetrate crimes against children and women – SOULS FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED – would be handled immediately and decisively, without exception.
I DO expect that when fathers, as protectors of their family, rise up to demand justice for their children, they would be listened to and honored – not excommunicated, as has happened in the past.
I DO expect that ministers carrying the precious Gospel story would be living morally, as befits a representative of the Gospel, keeping in mind that Paul himself said sexual immorality SHOULD NOT ONCE BE NAMED AMONG YOU.
I DO expect that all people, friends and workers, serving God in spirit and in truth would stand up in righteous indignation to defend the defenseless, no matter the cost. Jesus would ask nothing less of us.
I don’t know who you are comparing to Jezebel. If you are pointing at someone in particular, you should be clear and honest and say who you mean. However, since Jezebel was a woman, I want to point out to you that Jesus REBUKED his disciples for not believing the reports of his Resurrection. Those reports came from women. You would do well to do the same.
Lastly, you mention God’s timing. It is eminently clear from reading the Bible that God’s time was the first time this monstrous behavior surfaced. God’s time is long and shamefully overdue.
“I DO expect that all people, friends and workers, serving God in spirit and in truth would stand up in righteous indignation to defend the defenseless, no matter the cost. Jesus would ask nothing less of us”. You state, ” I do expect… Jesus would ask nothing less… “. Your comments are directed at the “system”. Instead, the system is going to give you, “fathers, as protectors of their family, rise up to demand justice for their children… excommunicated, as has happened in the past”. The system does NOT care what YOU expect. The system doesn’t care about dads that are protectors. It took a while for me to learn this, but as hard as it was for me to see this, eventually I did. As a dad protector. Thanks to God I did. And, I hope you do to. It is a better day when you do. …You are right, Jesus would expect nothing less. But, Jesus is not the system.
There is a least one Amen type sitting in almost every one of William Irvine’s cult meetings. They can usually be identified as the most sanctimonious members. This is why CSA/SA has been able to flourish since the day the cult was founded.
So now the whole world sees that we called ourselves, or the religion we follow is/was called The Truth and The Way. This is not too shabby for the No-Name brand having at least two names graven on the bow of the ship of fellows.
But as I see it now, we certainly did try to ‘make a name for ourselves’. Any assemblage of peoples saying they are sailing in the only ship of fellows sailing to heaven certainly are trying to make a name for themselves. I take it on the chin; I walked in those shoes for many years also as I talked to my friends and neighbors about what I thought I had. I now see it as religious pride. Possibly our membership will sky rocket now that the populace have found out about the only group of people that actually walk in Jesus Way and the only group of people that know God’s truth. The silver lining in this BBC article is that we will not need to knock on so many doors and talk to so many people on the street to tell them where the truth lies. Conversely, maybe it is a pity the cover is blown on our secret sauce. I personally am quite over the message we have all heard that God will send any seeking soul our way. Do we really believe there are that few souls on the earth searching for God’s truth? Oh well, whatever.
I am confident however over the passage of time that there were some in the ship of fellows that secretly said to themselves about the religious assemblage of peoples called The Truth and The Way … “but, but… but, do those names not belong to another?”
Until a few months ago, I found the words that we believe that Jesus said and we believe that the scribes did not monkey with a wee touch, or the Catholic priests didn’t tell the scribes to fiddle with… somewhat strange. Jesus apparently said, “Many will come in my name, saying I am Christ.” I asked myself for many years, ‘why would anyone do that…call themselves Christ?’ Take it for what you will and believe whatever you want to believe. You certainly don’t need to make any connection if you don’t want to.
What befuddles me now is the serious effort made to keep this matter of nonsense hidden in the church for sake of making the church appear squeaky clean and pristine. It appears there was a serious level of guile exercised by those in authority to quash any descent that the truth would be known. Does it not make an individual question if there were a few other truths that were conveniently or unwittingly left out of the messaging? I am gob smacked now that I know of it the number of individuals that were told to either shut up or walk the plank in Alberta twenty some years ago in the name of religion, all because they had a care for and were attempting to help and bring a little justice to the wounded ones in the ditch. This level of guile is generally only ferreted out in the chambers of parliament or the halls of congress. Is it any wonder that the politics of nations has had a most favorable ride on the back of religion for millennia. But alas, as Chaucer penned; “But at the laste, as every thing hath ende, She took hir leve, and nedes wolde wende.”
Mark S Thank you. To quote ” I’m gob smacked right NOW that I know of it the number of individuals that were told to either shut up or walk the plank…… all because they HAD A CARE FOR OR WERE ATTEMPTING TO BRING A LITTLE JUSTICE TO THE WOUNDED IN THE DITCH”.
YES, Story after story; report after report; letter after letter reveals the 12 decades of the very same behavior and and then you look in the eyes of those who raised children and realize they were completely “blind sided” and their hospitality was an open invitation……. while those who could have warned–did NOT! AND then they actually read God’s Word and realize the 2×2 ministry does not even preach what JESUS OR HIS 12 APOSTLES preached to that Nation of Israel and wonder why?
Tom and Debbie clearly state the NOT expectations. These expectations would avoid an international sex ring investigation. AND that is just man’s law. God’s Law expects much more! Both have been “self-righteously” ignored while strompping on their victims.
Amen, How many cars are black and have tented windows? How many can actually read God’s Word as written? Enjoy your place of superiority and excuses. Facts are Facts and reality is reality! The “tip of the ice burg” is no longer hid. The ‘clock of righteousness’ is still being firmly grasp as they are exposed. 12 decades of facts cannot be denied. And as Jezebel ignored God and did NOT repent -such is the case for 12 decades. Just what was Jezebel’s Gospel?: that she had to repent?
Further up U’ll see “3 in a row” (in the wrong space). = I didn’t get confirmation the first two times so I figured they were lost/floated away in cyberspace and added the 3rd. // What’s being referred to happened close to 40 years ago. Crists and Hagens were were elderly back then. I’m sure they struggled with processing all they were hearing, as I did. Neither they or I ever thought back then that a worker would assault a child?! Dale (likely) had every reason to be fiercely angry.