The only credible information I had on Kingsley at the time we took him away and before he spoke and until last night, was that five sister workers at Mountain Ranch felt extremely uncomfortable with him. About the time we took him away I was made aware by one of the five sisters that she heard from a source that could be questionable that he had been turned into a hotline.
I googled his name at that time and nothing came up. We told his overseers in South Africa what we had done and they were in absolute disbelief. When we older brothers heard last night what Kingsley said to the 15 year old girl after the Sunday morning [meeting] we were absolutely shocked.
We are doing everything in our power to get him out of the country as soon as possible. That involves interception of his passport from the Canadian embassy. We will put him on a plane as fast as we can. He is awaiting his passport in the LA area and in a home of a single man who knows what we knew before 8:00 last night. I will update our man asap.
Kingsley will NOT BE IN ANY MORE MEETINGS between now and plane time.
With great sadness, and deep apologies.
Your brother, Rob
WINGS Note:
Kingsley Stone is a South African worker who had been listed as a speaker at the Mountain Ranch #1, CA 2023 convention.
After Kingsley Stone was removed from Mountain Ranch convention last week, Jonathan Wright took him to Sunday morning meeting in the local field, and the people he met with were not notified why he was meeting with them and not at convention.
Kingsley openly “admired” the 15 year old granddaughter of the man whose home he was in on Sunday.
Jonathan Wright said Kingsley wasn’t at convention because of Passport issues. And then he took him to stay at an elder’s home who has six granddaughters.
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Per the wording of this letter, Mr. Newman did not retain one thing from “Ministry Safe” training that he required for all his male CA workers. It is also apparent that the “Ministry Safe” training did not do one bit of good for Mr. Van Den Berg (a real pervert) and Mr. Wright (a cover-up man).
I’m going to give Rob some credit here. Listening to the sister workers is refreshing for sure. Bottom line Kingsley is gone from the work. I think the California staff deserves some credit for that. I would say well done on that issue. As far as the Sunday morning meeting issues, let’s hope that the learning curve is extremely short lived on this.
Is it certain that Kingsley was removed from Mountain Ranch convention? It seems there is varied information going around that he was removed from convention, that he never attended convention to the letter above not being from Rob.
Kingsley did not speak at Mtn Ranch. He was definitely there. He’s included in the workers picture.
Were you there? I was. Though I wouldn’t recognize him. The picture was taken before convention.
I am confident Kingsley had been framed. I have known him very well for many years and can truthfully say that he is an upright man. Why were those sisters not accusing him in the presence of witnesses and stated what made them feel unconfortable? He was never alone with any of them. The same with the 15 year old and her parents? Probably an innocent remark made in the presence of others was taken completely out of context. All he had were allegations but nothing that he was accused of. I am utterly shocked and disappointed by such treatment by OVERSEERS of a highly respected man in his own country!!
To Disappointed 50 years ago I was molested by a senior worker and I personally know of many other girls who where as well. Yet to this day that same worker is often talked about in such high regard and still many don’t believe he would have ever done such a thing as they too knew him personally. So I feel that we really don’t know someone even if we feel we do.
Nobody speaks out about such things easily, but it is because of people like yourself that these things have gone on so long and damaged so many.
I don’t mean to be critical of you but please let’s see how it works out. I believe where there is smoke there is always fire, just my opinion!!
There has been many smokes concerning Kingsley over the years.
i’m sorry you were abused – i hope you got help and the perpetrator was dealt with to the full extent of the law – your feelings matter hugely – but they do not matter more than facts & as much as they cause you to remember your abuse, this does not give anyone the right to label Kingsley without any evidence – thus far, he has convicted by the court of embittered human opinion
There were RED FLAGS or this would not have happened. I do not believe he was “framed” and wonder why you would say that. Since Dean’s death and he was excellent at concealing it except for the poor victims.
U.S is not Kingsley’s country, how well do you actually know him?
VERY WELL!!
Have you talked to any eyewitnesses from South Africa?
I have found that the one’s that knows us best are God, spouse, children, and in the worker’s case their co workers. Very close friends aswell but not aswell as the above I believe.
Infront of these we are usually ourselves.
Infront of others we usually are on our best behaviour, not because we want to be hypocrites but we just preform what is socially or group wise exceptable.
@Louise – I’ve been married for almost 40 years, and I do know a lot about my husband, but I certainly don’t know everything, and never will. Groomers (predators) are some of the nicest people one could ever meet. I’ve had family in the work in the USA and Canada – no one really gets to know their companion or what they are capable of, especially if they are predators!
Are you Kingsley?
No I am definitely not Kingsley! If that is what you were asking me. A good friend YES!
Lets hope it’s just immorality and not criminal, not that I condone immorality.
It is not easy when thing’s come out about a friend of ours, we feel betrayed.
Highly respected in his own country…. well, that’s good. He won’t be coming back to ours! Thanks for reminding us what the typical professing response constitutes. It is helpful to see.
Dear disappointed – I feel just as you do – “”shocked and disappointed ” I am South African and have many times been in Kingsley’s presence – he is pleasant, engages with one and has always respectfully addressed folk. My own thoughts were “”what if these lady Workers as a group , I believe there were 5 – what if he complimented them? Why is it not been said “”what Kingsley said”” perhaps they’re not used to compliments. Please correct me if you need to “”but what was said””?
@Disappointed – I understand your indignation to a degree, because you don’t understand what grooming is, and how it works. I have experience with one who is highly regarded, and I felt the same way…until I realized what grooming is, and that I had been a sucker to his grooming! People who commit sexual assaults are very good at getting people to like and trust them…while harming another smaller group, so that whey anyone would come forward, the majority will be completely indignant and claim “He’s one of the most upstanding men I’ve ever met!” Then, those indignant persons go about bashing the victims (causing further harm). It’s sickening, and once you understand how a predator works, you’ll be sick too!
@Disappointed – I highly doubt “Kingsley had been framed”. Too many of our friends have chosen not to learn as much as possible about how predators work. They start out by grooming large groups of people, while they are looking for their next victim, then focus on the chosen one’s family and friends to groom them. That way, once they start abusing, no one will believe the victim’s cries…and furthermore, will join in the victim bashing with gusto, because they don’t know that person as a predator, further harming the victims. No predator has “just one” victim, and they ONLY attend meeting (all gatherings) for the sole purpose of choosing their next victim. It’s sickening. Please, do some research…there’s too many people bringing his name up, for their to not be something there.
@Cathy Snyders – That’s how the majority felt about Dean Bruer too, and Mark Huddle, and ……. Every single one of the predators! Better wake up!
whoever is using my name, please refrain. I am not on these groups bit have been made aware that someone is using my name
If you can point out where your name is being used falsely, we can remove those posts and ban the impostor.
Good morning
Thank you for your response
Comments about Kingsley Stone being sent back to RSA.
Just under a comment from Volkewyn, there is a comment in my name…… KINGSLEY WOULD NEVER BETRAY OUR TRUST and just shortly after that someone replied to this comment
I am not on FB or any other groups.
Would be appreciated if it could be removed
Regards
Cathy Snyders
Done. They used your email address too so it will be someone who knows you. We will watch for other attempts to impersonate as we have their IP. Thank you!
I totally agree about Kingsley’s character. He is an upright and dear man. I would encourage Kingsley, to make a case of defamation of character as soon as possible. It is insane,to expell a visiting worker, without any grounded reason. What an unwelcome, welcome. He should be publicly exconorated and set free, from the hell, of been made a scapegoat in a foreign country. SHAME ON YOU!
That would be really bad advice because the truth would come out under oath and there would be no more hiding.
And what would be BAD about hearing the truth, under oath?
If CSA occurred, it SHOULD be exposed, to Law Enforcement. What am I missing here?
That’s the point actually. I was responding to the person who is convinced that Stone is “upright and dear”, is being defamed, and that the remedy for the alleged defamation is a civil lawsuit.
It would be bad for Stone’s facade of “uprightness” if he had to testify under oath in Discovery. That’s the “bad” part. The good part is that the truth would be revealed unless he is a really skilled liar. Hope that makes sense.
@watchman it makes sense assuming you know the truth of the situation. Perhaps an interesting point on those who were assured that Jesus came from Galilee and not Bethlehem is when,”Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?52 ¶ They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.”
Dorothy and others,
I personally am trying to separate the minutia from the meat and potatoes in these matters.
Here is something that I am wondering about. I know Kingsley. But haven’t seen him in 20 years. A lot of water can go under the bridge in 20 years. Have spent many Sundays with Kingsley in Limpopo when I worked at Phalaborwa and had to drive at least to Tzaneen to share my Sundays with Daan and Marlene to have morning meeting under the canopy in the caravan park. And Joseph and Elise were there also. And numerous times Kingsley and Jason V would come.
So just throwing an idea out there, and know I will get up people’s noses. I do not dispute the things that are written about Kingsley – and if they are true…Kingsley….listening? Roll up your sleeves, be ready to mop the sweat from your brow in the fashion I remember. Please stop preaching if any of these things are true. Stop preaching please and get to work – there is work to be done. And each of us can do it, or each of us can just keep riding along singing cowboy songs and pretending whatever we want to pretend. I don’t really know – how much problem does RSA really have in this matter? I feel RSA will most surely have a problem too, but how much of the problem are they? I could write about my views on this, but alas people don’t want to hear and people do not want to read. My typing fingers are running out of steam on this thing, much to the glee I am sure with the over seers and those that are egging the over seers on and enabling the intoxication of this ministry.
So here is what I wonder about. Why is there so much back patting and the sharing of atta-boys in North America about Kingsley, a South Africa – why is there so much, you know, sticking in our thumb and pulling out a plumb and saying what good boys are we in North America here about Kingsley and putting him on a plane home… and we do not seem to have the presence of mind, or back bone, or will, or heart, or whatever to get the mentally sick ones that have very severe negative effects on children even out of meeting here in North America? Sounds like we need to dig a little deeper on what the problem might be with why there are so many children that are now adults that are languishing and the flippin’ ministry and the corridors of power do not give a rats arse and turning up their nose and looking the other way. That seems to be their view of what a victim, or abused, or downtrodden soul, caused by a spirit of a self righteous, inflated religious system is worth to that spirit. This spirit is pointed in a very precarious direction. If people did not realize this, just read the news. The ‘promised’ land is not looking too promising.
And that is my little thought for meeting this morning. I would like to go on and be more faithful, yak, yak, yak. Now let’s sing a hymn that none of us will listen to the words of. But the melody is so sweet.
To concernfromAZ…
No I was not there. I listened in. The Thursday afternoon meeting speaker and the Saturday morning speaker were not the same. Unless there’s a voice double or voice makeover.
The workers picture was taken on the 25th. Kingsley is the only brother on the photo without a tie. Not that that matters, but perhaps will refresh your memory if he was indeed the Thursday afternoon and Saturday morning meeting(s) senior speaker.
If I’m wrong in my assessment, I will gladly apologize. This we do know, Kingsley was definitely removed. Based on the letter from Rob.
Skip
With respect to the ‘tie’ statement. Here is a different take. Maybe Kingsley was on his knees praying and someone came running to get him as they were ready for the picture and realized that he wasn’t there. No time to put on a tie.
You don’t remove a person from a convention ground for no valid reason.They are busy investigating, obviously one can’t leave him going on convention rounds with serious allegations, it could land you in court.
So let’s be patient.
How long will the investigation take before the findings based on witnesses’ accounts are made known?
@Disappointed – as long as it takes to gather/vett every allegation, and unfortunately, with these allegations and the reporting that’s taking place, other issues of fraud and more have come to the surface. So, the prosecutors are working on all these cases, but they will be as thorough as they can be, to be sure every charge they can add to each file is added. Might take months, might take years, but it’s very apparent that since the overseers overseers are unwilling to do the scriptural and right thing, the FBI had to be brought in! So, now God can and will use them to clean up this mess.
This is serious name violation of character Kingsley Stone is one of our most respected SA workers and when one has a spontaneous personality allegations of immature girls on their feelings only is unfair and unjust and the Americans have honestly lost a wonderful opportunity of fellowship you should feel ashamed of such unsubstantiated accusations it is appaling that the credibility of KS was treated in this manner and I sincerely hope that he will take this matter further.
Thankfully God has seen the complete picture and we haven’t. There were RED FLAGS or this would not have happened. God will take care of this situation in his time not ours.
There were really ‘no’ allegations other than some that felt uncomfortable. One statement from someone that was ‘unreliable’ and from a minor that said he ‘admired’ her. I believe that a simple visit with Kingsley could have corrected the problem – and it surely didn’t need the extreme measures that were taken. Like others have said – unless there is something more to this than what has been revealed – I think it was very very sad.
The S.A overseers had multipul warnings over many year’s about Kingsley, you need to be upset with them sweeping these allegations under the carpet over the year’s, if they didn’t this could have been prevented.
i agree wholeheartedly – i abhor CSA & believe anyone guilty of it should be handed over to authorities – however, Kingsley is a man of exemplary character and his friendly disposition has been used against him by ppl
who have been told false lies about him – i have no doubt he has been framed and judged by nameless faceless people – he has been labelled and convicted by a court of embittered ppls opinions and i too hope he takes this further – there are enough friends around the world who love and support him – we encourage the mysterious ts from south america to come forward with the evidence – i won’t hold
my breath
Who would you say framed him and why? Or is that more of a feeling?
before i answer you, i would like to say that even though i do not know who i am corresponding with, i do not mind you questioning me on my identity. I would also like to say that i do not intend to continue persuing this topic after today as it is hardly edifying – i have done what i felt moved to and wrote a long letter in defence of kingsley on the wings for truth website yesterday & i do not intend going on there again.
to answer your question – i do not know who framed kingsley but i’m sure i don’t have to tell you that unfortunately there are many disenchanted and bitter apostates who have left the meetings and are anxiously waiting for the humiliation of kingsley – The ‘professing pro boards’ website is full of these folks – faceless ppl who hide behind pseudonyms and accusations and untrue claims and many who write openly of their abuse by workers and how they were ignored by the system in the past – while i am dead against child abuse and believe child sex abusers should be dealt with hardly and put away, i am also genuinely sorry for them if they were abused as children and were not believed – having said this, any sensible balanced person would know that the feelings of these embittered folks don’t equal or trump facts and they do NOT make kingsley guilty and no person should just be believed without evidence – that is not how any law or any justice works – There is a lot of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance happening amongst these unhappy folks – before i wrote on the site This past week, In seeking more clarity on the subject, i went onto the forum and when anyone asks about evidence, these embittered keyboard warriors have no evidence ( apart from the wishy washy accusations which Rob Newman refers to ) but they speak of him having been abusing children for years and refer folks to confirm this with a certain person who goes under the pseudonym of ‘TS’ – one of the folks states that TS is an ex-worker and has connections with south africa and south america – In the past, South Africa have sent a number of workers to south america & some have left the work so while i do not know who is lying about Kingsley and who is wrote to the american sister workers and warned them about him before he arrived, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find out. I may be wrong but i wouldn’t hold my breath expecting TS to come forward with accusations – this type of behaviour smacks of what is happening in the world today ________________________________
As far as identity goes, you just have to click on my initials and you will find out everything you need to know. Find my name and Google it and you will find more. And fyi, I am active in the meetings so I don’t qualify for the “apostate” label.
I understand your concerns about people with an agenda of one sort or another. My next question is this: if you received two eyewitness accounts, would you believe them or write them off as bitter apostates? I mean, why would anyone want to ruin the reputation of a reputedly blameless nice person? Why would they not pick on one of the nastier workers?
@Anonymous – I would suggest to any worker coming to America, “be on your best behavior” and “don’t make suggestive comments, or suggestions of inappropriate nature”. He’s fortunate that sending him back to SA was all that happend.
I would just like to point out that Kingsley DID wear a tie on the worker’s foto. Already the info given the opposite is fake. How many other info is fake? Please people get your facts right before you judge and use people for maybe your own benefit.
Many of our workers are on heavy anti depressants. Some of these drugs can cause really weird behavior even in good people. This is probably not a popular opinion but it could explain what happened here if the extent of it is inappropriate comments.
Anti-depressants do not cause really weird behavior. If you are bi-polar that can sometimes trigger hypomania if you are not also on mood stabilizers. Anti-depressants do not trigger CSA or inappropriate comments to minors.
If is a shock to learn the workers need anti depressants – or maybe not. In The Truth we were told that we should not go to psychologists or psychiatry, that the Bible was all we needed.
But that just didn’t work for me- due to childhood trauma I am having to treat generalized anxiety with medicine. So i am not alone in needing meds, but I am sad that I went so long, and felt conflicted about it – before finally seeking help. This is one way in which the absolute authority of the workers led to early moral injury to our natural instincts for healing and seeking help, even without any CSA. The results continue to play out in my family and the friends, even though we’re all over 45yrs old.
in some countries medication is forced on the incoming ministry, I’m guessing because it’s such a cultural shock? I don’t really know the reasoning. But, some who’ve been there have talked about it.
My mistake about the tie. I didn’t look closely enough. I do apologize for that and thanks for the correction. I only mentioned that as an identifying feature for those who (myself) would not recognize or know Kingsley. In the small photo I have it appeared he didn’t have a tie on. Sorry again.
Skip
Who sre the 5 ladies their names and surnames must also be exposed mr Rob Newman this is not a one sided allegation
An anonymous poster saying KS is framed and the ladies names and surnames must be “exposed”. One thing’s for sure…. you’re professing!
with respect – this has been handled shockingly – without diminishing the feelings of ppl, facts are more important than feelings and just like CSA can ruin a life, so can false allegations -i am all for child
abusers being put away and dealt with harshly and those who are making the accusations need to stop hiding in the shadows under fake names and produce the evidence – for their own sakes as well as everyone else’s because like going to the meetings cannot prevent perpetrators from being prosecuted, those who knowingly defame other ppl’s character without evidence will also not be protected
Sadly, people are often not who we think they are. And the more friendly, pleasant and personable they are, the easier it is for them to fool people as to who they are. I hope you’re right and KS and many others are found innocent of immorality or criminal acts toward children. And as for this “true ministry” etc. as mentioned, this way was founded by men and even in the early days they were disagreeing and excommunicating each other. We all need to realize that some of what has been taught are lies. Even George Walker (early Eastern US worker/overseer) lied by omission. He knew the original founder personally. And no, I’m not an ex, just a realist who has known about the origins for years and been concerned about the covering up of SA and CSA for even longer.
@Anonymous – why are YOU hiding? Yet, you want to know who the victims were? Why? So you can bash them? Because that’s the normal reaction of people who don’t understand what a groomer is…they are predators who prey on people. But, not before getting EVERYONE possible to THINK they are super awesome people so that if a victim speaks out, they will be crucified. Stop talking and wait for the investigations to play out…so far, I have only heard of ONE person who was proven to have been falsley accused, once the Canadian Mounties were finished their investigation. I doubt will see many more who have been “falsley accused”.
I think everyone should calm down. To “Disappointed “: sometimes the person we think we know is not that person. I recently saw a Dr Phil show in which a woman found out that her husband was a serial rapist after his car was searched at a routine traffic stop. My point:wait for Cynthia to finish her investigation. Apparently it is known that Kingsley had at least one affair with another sister workers.. so he’s not as straight and narrow as you think..
let him who is without sin cast the first stone – i am
obviously talking about consenting adults here and not child abuse – anyone who abuses a
child should
be dealt with by authorities and feel the full extent of the law
@Mousey – we aren’t talking about Kingsley just having issues with adults. People need to stop thinking they “know someone”, and learn what predators (who prey on humans) actually do. I’m not referring to the abuse…I’m talking about how they groom everyone else into thinking they are amazing people. Research the subject, it’s how I finally could grasp how someone I trusted completely was accused…I had been GROOMED right along with thousands of other people who thought as I did! ”There’s NO possible way!!”…yet, in the end he admitted to ONE…and it turns out there were many more!!
Just wondering all the people doing the cleansing are they all clean themselves
@Anonymous – they may be sinners, but are they criminals? Is what you SHOULD be asking. You need to wake up to the horror of what these people (predators) have created. It’s true it’s a sin, but it’s beyond that, they are criminals, and need to be in jail or in the ground.
i have sat by in horror and despair for the past week watching how an exemplary man’s life and reputation has been cruelly destroyed – and all without evidence thus far. What makes it worse is that it has been allowed & condoned by certain overseers in the USA who have no knowledge of him and his character and whose knee-jerk reaction leaves everything to be desired, least of all, a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I do not blame anyone for removing kingsley from the grounds on the account of accusations until they had clarity on whether these accusations are accurate or not, because i know that children must be put first and the advice is to remove ppl who have been accused immediately , whether they are guilty or not -for obvious reasons – i have a problem with what has taken place since & the manner in which he was treated like a criminal -being frogmarched onto a plane leaving behind a litany of online accusations and labelling him a pedophile by ppl who have never laid eyes on him and who are in touch with nameless bitter disenchanted people who claim to know of his guilt but have no evidence – and who want to remain anonymous. Let’s deal with it the way it is supposed to be dealt with – to anyone who has evidence – step forward and produce it or call on whoever has the story and they will
be given an ear – we are waiting – Let me state clearly, if kingsley is guilty of CSA, i would be the first one to say he should be handed over to the authorities and prosecuted – i am a professing mother of 4 and grandmother of 9 who has attended meetings from the cradle & who has grown up living on convention grounds in south africa & am aware of many occasions where workers were put out of the work for both CSA & SA – I am also aware that decades ago, throughout the world, this behaviour amongst workers was not dealt with correctly due to ignorance and i believe that is not the case anymore. I have known kingsley since our teens and our families even spent time together on holidays as youngsters – he is two years my junior & i can vouch for it that he is, and has always been a man of character, discipline and achievements above what most are capable of. i can vouch for
him as being a very open and transparent friendly person – As a young man in his twenties, His outstanding college & graduation achievements put the world at his feet, but he chose to preach the gospel because he loved the souls of men. I do not live in south africa anymore and my contact with him goes only as far as his weekly general letter – but we have had kingsley stay in our family home on several occasions (when our children were small and adult )and i have no doubt that he has been framed by someone who has an axe to grind – there are many of these such people – believe me! His love for the souls of mankind is what sent him into the harvest field nearly 40 years ago and this pure Godly love is the same love he has for adults and children alike – and to ascribe his interest and care in children as anything else is an error of judgement in my opinion. please note -To any child or adult who has been sexually abused, i’m not minimising your experience and i hope your perpetrator was dealt with to the full extent of the law & i am so sorry this happened to you. I have done some studies on psychology and i know that being abused as a child can ruin a life and often does – and as a mother and grandmother, i am altogether in favour of anyone guilty of this crime to be dealt with harshly – i also want to say to you that your feelings of betrayal & whatever else, matter HUGELY and i hope you get all the assistance and help you need – but i also want to tell you that your feelings do NOT matter more than FACTS ! If I were one of those keyboard warriors who have sat like vultures waiting for a judgement of kingsley and believed the bitter hearsay from nameless people who claim to know of his misdemeanours, i would be very careful to label him, as this is a crime too and just like being a member of the meetings cannot protect an abuser, so you cannot expect to be shielded if you make false allegations which have the potential to ruin someone’s character reputation.
I have had no contact with kingsley since this has happened, but if if i were him, i would be getting legal advice as to how to go forward – he has a groundswell of love and support from those who love and respect him – not only from south africa but world wide.
I was asked not to comment anymore, even though I dont see any problems with my posts, this will be the last.
People that bring allegations to the workers are in some cases made the scapegoats and are ostracized by the friends and workers, I would forsure not give any one’s name out that in good faith reported a worker.It is not the allegations that is the problem but how it’s handled.
Well written the letter of Rob Newman little to be desired not credible at all
@Mousey – “a groundswell of love and support” from ignorant people? Too many people are not learning what they should be about predators. You think WE didn’t “think they world” of some of our ministers who have been accused (and found guilty, and they’ve admitted to their crimes)?? We sit stunned and hurt by their betrayal!!
“Just because some who is accused ‘is a nice person’ or ‘has a wonderful testimony’ doesn’t mean they’re not a predator. Predators are clever, intelligent people who also are monsters. Both can be true. My attacker was all of that – but I was a better wrestler and got out from under him before he raped me.”
Someone posted this on another post, well said!
We know very well that this discontent and division is being driven by bitter apostates who gloat over their ability to manipulate and trick our workers.
I doubt these 5 sister workers even exist outside the wicked imagination of some letter-writer. I feel so badly for Kingsley to have to endure these false accusations.
As to the supposed 15 year old, I’ve seen how some of these children look and behave in America to shock and disturb their elders. Does anyone know how this girl was dressed?
Hi, minors are NEVER responsible for the actions of adults. Please stop acting like adult men have no control over their thoughts and behavior. Jesus himself said to gouge out your own eyes if you lust. Your way of thinking is very disturbing. Having a wonderful husband, father and brother in law myself I realize not all men are complete animals. Please go to therapy.
Victim blaming.. regardless of how a child, teen or adult is dressed the man/worker is responsible for his actions.
Don’t let the workers be a part of your foundation, their commission is to point us to Jesus. If we build on Him we will never be shaken.
That is disgusting! You are lumping Americans together in an extremely negative light, which is totally unfair and untrue!
Also, rape victims are frequently asked what they were wearing, as if they asked to be raped, this is a sickening thing to suggest! You should be ashamed of yourself!
Hi Stacey1960,
You are correct this is disgusting. It is more disgusting than perhaps you realise? jwnz is an evil person who imposted as though they were John Watt a NZ worker. They didn’t harm John Watt but they did trigger a CSA survivor. If you want to contact John Watt to clarify and confirm this, his contact details are on the NZ workers list.
Wow, I believe you! Thank you for clarifying this. I have seen this somewhere before too, just now recognizing who wrote it. Thank you.
I’m curious as to why comments are appearing re JWNZ now, months after the event? We’ve all moved on and I’m not sure anyone really cares, to be fair!
@JWNZ – you truly haven’t a clue. You are the perfect groomed adult who predators love! How dare you try to make Kingsley’s behavior the fault of a child! You are just as bad as the one’s who abuse, because you turn around and abuse the victim…when YOU are the one who’s been groomed to THINK they are “great people”…when they aren’t!
Hi, minors are NEVER responsible for the actions of adults. Please stop acting like adult men have no control over their thoughts and behavior. Jesus himself said to gouge out your own eyes if you lust. Your way of thinking is very disturbing. Having a wonderful husband, father and brother in law myself I realize not all men are complete animals. Please go to therapy.
What a pastime to keep oneself busy with trying to get workers out of the work who are innocent surely there are more wonderful uplifting balanced activities for pastime
How do you know they are innocent?
Are you a mind reader or something?
We ve known Kingsley personally for 40 years I think you must rather keep quiet
How about just humbly saying ” you are right, I have not been with those that have been accused of wrong doings 24/7, so I dont know if they are innocent or not.”
Good thing you are anonymous, we might have met in our past lives.
Knowing Kingsley for 40 years is beside the point. Were there is credible evidence of CSA, SA or sexual immorality, I am glad it is coming to light!
The alarms regarding CSA, SA and sexual immorality in this fellowship has been going off for decades, now the ship is sinking and some people are shocked, maybe they really didn’t know, I have empathy for them but for those that knew about it and ignored it, swept it under the carpet or turned a blind eye,
I have NO respect for you.
Anonymous SA – this isn’t something to make light of. I’m thankful the FBI has stepped in. They don’t take things like this if it’s not very serious…and South Africa is not out of their reach! If it was your child/grandchild I’m sure your vision would be clear as can be. Go learn about grooming, and you’ll learn a lot about how it’s done. Consider yourself well groomed by a predator!
Kingsley was never accused of CSA on that forum or anywere else that I know of.
ts was talking about another worker from S.A that was in the work in South America and was removed.
I know I said I would stop but I had to correct that untruth.Please double check your statements.
.
I have personally nothing against Kingsley, I dont know him but have seen him many times.
I do have a problem with CSA, SA and keeping immoral worker’s in the ministry though.
Wings- why do you make these e mails public before the person is found guilty, I do find that unfair?
What guilt are you looking for? He made 5 sister workers feel “extremely uncomfortable” and was sent home. Those are the facts and kudos for the overseer paying attention to the concerns of sister workers.
So BGM, you won’t mind your name being made public if someone said you made them feel uncomfortable?
The overseer did the right thing, that was not my question, the question was actually addressed to Wings For Truth admin, thanks.
Yes, I would be happy to directly address the issue, publicly or not. I am a WINGS admin.
Hmmmm a ladies man
I am dissapointed to hear that you disagree on something that is unfair period. I am suprised this site is not concerned about law suits?
Publishing protocols hear have been designed to be legally defensible.
How do you know that the e mails you post are authentically from the specific worker?
How do you know that the content of the
e mails are true?
You must have friends in the different
states sending them to you?
Why is it taking so long to know what Kingsley is guilty of or not?
Making people feel uncomfortable or saying something to a 15 year won’t get you convicted of any crime in a court of law, there must be more substantial evidence.
What crime has Kingsley been accused of?
Exactly, at this present moment he is guilty of nothing,neither crime or immorality, thats why I asked why Wings would post the e mail before any concrete evidence?
The e mail should not have been made public period, no matter how long you argue to the contrary.
Maybe you need to reread what you wrote May 8th at 11:48 and May 8th at 11:56. There were concerns of events that at MR.
The point is not that there have been rumors in the past, the point is that this e mail has been made public and Wings for Truth can’t tell us what Kingsley is guilty of?
I have tried to explain as best as I can, I am signing of.
I am a brother worker (from neither North America or South Africa.)
Over a decade ago Kingsley was a convention visitor in our country.
This is my memory. Sister workers had a concern and protective feeling regarding one of their young co-workers (an attractive young woman) because of the ‘interest’ Kingsley took in her. I would say almost 100% that ‘nothing happened'( the sister workers would have seen to that.)
So it wasn’t such a shock to me that Kingsley left California and returned to South Africa recently.
I trust that those with responsibility in South Africa will with honesty and integrity consider the concerns and allegations that pertain to Kingsley and do what is right in the sight of God.
I make no pronouncement of guilt or innocence. Only a plea that this is dealt with in a honest right and godly (and transparent) manner and that Kingsley future regarding a place in our ministry is determined according to that.
I agree with you traveller!
I can just say people have gone to the overseers of S.A with allegations about Kingsley in the past, and he was left in the work.
I myself spoke to Johan Kotzè, Andy Robijn and the other overseer that past away about CSA and sexual immorality back in 2017
I believe, via e mail, Johan said I must not believe everything on the internet and he send me a sermon about the evils of the internet, I never received a reply from the others or Johan after that and I send them multipul
e mails concerning this.
Mr Rob Newman,
If I had your email address I would have sent this letter to you personally. This way you probably never will get to read it.
I am horrified that a letter of this tone and accompanying treatment by an Overseer (godly and wise man?) could be made public before a person has been convicted by facts, not just allegations. This letter also has the underlying accusation of CSA which is damning!
Surely no person should have these accusations made public before convicted by facts! What has happened to wisdom??
An absolute horrified follower of this fellowship.
@Horrified – you should be horrified! A “minister” from your country came to ours and thought he could get away with criminal behavior!! Sickening representation!!
Before you go screeching about how unfair it all is, what about thinking of the victims ? You act like one accusation is all it took (which is all it should take)…but, there were multiple!
Consider yourself well groomed, by one of the slickest kind of criminals on the planet.
Kingsley Stone the 2×2 ministries Houdini!
Does this mean no actual accusation could be brought against him?
No there are actual accusations.
No idea why it’s taking so long……
His overseers are protecting him, why do you ask? I can just guess they have skeletons in their closets aswell?
Yes, Kingsley’s overseer has the same foul reputation that Kingsley does, and they are both playing victim pretending to be surprised and hurt by such things said against them. I trust that whatever this creep said or did to 5 sisters, and to this 15YO girl was disgusting enough to remove a brother worker from convention and meetings stateside. Good Job to the CA staff who said something and followed through with this unprecedented bold step. Both Kingsley and his overseer do not belong in the work, and I hope we never see them again in North America.
This is the pattern to look for: These creeps are aware of each other. Think of the number of people associated w/ Dean Bruer and at his funeral who have now been removed. Kingsley called John Vandenberg who has been removed. Dale Schultz repeatedly was connected to cases and mishandling them in the US and Canada for 30 years. The same pattern is unfolding this morning with WI and SD overseers. They have swapped CSA perp stomping grounds.
They need to all be removed from the work, if they were honest they would have removed themselves decades ago.
if there was one shred of honesty, they would CHOOSE to stay away from any location where their choice of victims would frequent. Parks, grocery stores, libraries, restaurants (they can go through a drive up window), church gatherings of any kind, ball games, etc. But, they are all too wicked to do the right thing.
I heard Kingsley is still in the work, busness as usual, what a shame!
I am so shocked “Professing Father ” – here we approach our Special Meeting in SA on the Convention grounds “Bethany” on the 3rd Sept – and I sense a deep disappointment (may I add “disgust” perhaps? in your message re Kingsley and Johan Kotze. There are a few of us that feel so saddened by all that has taken place. I was traveling the other morning to work and found myself talking to God and I said “”Lord how is this possible”” we are being shaken. Our children Lord our children have been hurt – I come from a home where my GrandMother and Mother have been faithful over many years. Not once in all my years was there ever a word spoken about CSA or SA – Is it just that generation that “”swept everything under the carpet”” and now to me it’s just beyond me – this is the Ministry and the Fellowship that’s been shaken seriously. I welcome your comments and respect your opinions
The church originated in the Victorian Era, and we grew up in a society where sex was never discussed – not even when telling us about ‘ the birds and the bees.’ So repressive was the environment, sex was considered bad, immoral, and celibacy was idolized, especially for ministers, but in these churches with enforced celibacy, we continually stumble upon rape and sexual abuse. Of course ministers are not the only abusers occurs,but celibacy definitely adds fuel to the fire. Worse still, the repression means children do not acquire the proper vocabulary, so they often do not even know what to say to their parents, feel terrible but have no way to protest or seek help. Horrendously traumatic, to feel so powerless, and grow up believing the ones in power are right, so ‘it must be something wrong with me.’
No amount of rationalising once an adult can erase that feeling. Takes a lot of hard work to just get up each day, and be a good citizen.
I heared Kingsley was actually denied entrance to Canada because they found information that made him a unsafe person for entering, anyone know If this is true?
According to Cynthia from AFTT there has been many reports of innapropriate behaviour towards minor girls against Kingsley, including kissing them, which would constitute CSA.
What happened to the Kingsley supporter’s? I know Neale.H is one.
To Rob Newman.
Are you willing to make comment now on Wings here of how you feel now and what you see now after this newsfeed of May 2023? I would be most grateful. Please don’t worry about what people might think of you. This is a sign of not loving God first….or not at all. A white as snow leprosy in all Christian religions.