The following letters show support for WINGS and for all efforts to rid our fellowship of CSA:
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The following letters show support for WINGS and for all efforts to rid our fellowship of CSA:
WINGS for Truth 
2 sister workers approached an older brother decades ago about a CSA incident. He said, why are you coming to me? Call the police!
That’s exactly what should be happening every time! Criminal behavior requires authorities who are trained and paid and equipped to do the job. Every time!
Our workers weren’t called for this. They were called to preach the gospel. They are not investigators. Sure, once the authorities are called, then they are likely to be involved with guidance from the authorities.
It’s not our Fathers will that any perish. We are taught to love, everyone. Even our enemies. It’s everyone’s responsibility to take care of our children. We should all be united in doing that. Calling the authorities when necessary. Not dumping all our problems in the workers laps, without calling the authorities first.
Far too much is being expected of our workers, when the obvious most important first step isn’t being implemented.
Where are Jesus foundational principles of repentance, mercy, and forgiveness? These are things Jesus offered to everyone. Ultimately, God is the final judge, and we’ll all have to sit before the judgment seat of Christ. At that point, nothing else will matter.
Anonymous
It may not be the workers job to solve some of these problems, but it DEFINIATELY is their job to remove people from positions of authority whether in the work or as an elder when people bring claims against them. There is no unified guideline on these things. So in some places, people are kicked out completely and others they just can’t go to a meeting where there are children. This only causes frustration.
why can’t we continue reading the rest of this post?
You mean like the claims made against Jesus?like the claims made against Jesus?
Hi Dean. Can you please explain what you mean about “like the claims made against Jesus?”
I have read and reread Alan’s note and Fiesty Mom’s note and just wanted to make sure I understand what your question is.
Just because claims are made against someone, doesn’t make them guilty he Glen Sparks and Joseph with Potoiphars wife, and countless others falsely accused. We still believe in guilty until proven innocent in this country, correct?
why can’t we see and edit our reply before it posts?
I have no doubt there are lies told about people. False claims and fake stories. I also know as a survivor of child sexual abuse, that when it comes to the care of a child, it is ALWAYS better to error on the side of the child. Once a proper investigation by law enforcement has been done, then the truth of it will come out. In the mean time, separate the accused from any potential situations where they could offend again.
We are no longer at the point where the “good” workers can sit on their hands and say we are innocent. We made the decision we will no longer allow ANY male workers in our home. Is this unfortunate because there ARE some good amongst the bad, YES. But if these things had been dealt with properly back when it started, then the Good wouldn’t be suffering along with the bad. Did not Jesus say, count it as gold to suffer for his sake? Well the Good are now going to have to do just that. But children and women forced should be given the benefit of the doubt.
What makes this whole mess so bad is that there is not a consensus from state to state or country to country on how to deal with this. Some have gone overboard and removing people from all meetings who were falsely accused from over 20 years ago with Federal Pardons and other states like MO where scum like Ira Hobbs is ONLY removed from meetings with children. No one can tell me all the workers are being lead by the same spirit. The spirit isn’t going to tell some in one place something totally different from another.
There has been no mention of someone that is currently being investigated by the FBI. Tom Davies originally from MO is another problem. He has stole money from many of the friends to support a life outside of the work. He has also raped several women over the years. But without evidence…… Do not let this man into your homes or take a call from him. He scams people.
I professed through William Lewis and Jim Brown. One of my children professed under Ray Hoffman. All these men I looked up to. Reading what some of them are willing to overlook and have done makes me sick to my stomach. We go to meeting with 3 couples who worship the workers. Willing ignorance makes me sick. At the same time, focusing on all this also makes me sick. We are on the bottom of the totem pole here with no meeting or place in this faith. We have no power to enact change of any kind EXCEPT for what we allow into our home. So while it may not be fair to punish the good with the bad, we can’t trust anyone. We WILL NOT give sanctuary to any male worker nor will we finance the workers ever again.
If everyone chose for themselves in their place in the world to do the same, change would happen. We also realize it may not be long before we are kicked out because of what we chose to do. If that happens, so be it.
Jesus did say, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He did give us a free will to choose for ourselves.
Amen. Don’t be deceived. Just because someone says or believes they were sent by Jesus or by God does not necessarily make it so. Many who say that are not true or safe.
Yes it is good to realize that our enemy would like nothing better than to deceive people. He is a liar, and even after being locked up for a thousand years, he will be right back trying his best to deceive. I am personally thankful that Jesus told us the blessing we receive when we receive those he has sent. Also glad that we are told to not give god-speed to those who are false. It is wonderful that God has promised to give His Spirit to ALL those who receive Him. Would not it seem strange that God would tell us who we should receive and who we should not have fellowship with but not allow us to know the difference? By this shall all men know you are my disciples, by the love you have one for another. Thankful that the Spirit helps us to detect the Spirit in another life, and we love them.
yes Amen. And it seems maybe not many willing to follow the little footprints through the dunghill. Not many willing to catch up to where the footprints lead and ask them if they might have a message.
I could be wrong though, as I often am. There may be more than I think that have begun that journey. But what I am finding in my wanderings is that I need my still small ear to pick up on what the truth of the matter might be. Some are secretly and quietly understanding whom may have been sent in our day and generation and receiving their message. And please don’t hold all the elders feet to the fire on this thing. I am seeing, some elders walking through fire right now and suffering their meditations in silence.
And those that are not willing for the dung on their boots and shaking them in fervent prayer to get all this behind them because the bible told them so…well maybe they need to do a little test. Simple little test. Sit the bible on the table, stand back 6 feet and ask the bible where this thing is heading and who is the fairest. They need not wait too long to let the bible give them an answer from heaven. If someone says the bible said something to them about this or that, I would be searching for some dung somewhere close by. And if the answer comes that seems to be a false positive, ask them to run another test. Ask them to ask the bible from 6 paces to get off it’s duff and wash their feet for them. There seems to have been something planted in my own forehead in the formation of my own former religious brain of who will be servant to who, or who will/must be servant to what.
Not many willing to hone their spiritual marksmanship because they have all their faith in their own mark. The miracle of sending fire apparently from heaven to consume their enemies, the miracle that has worked well in the past, well they may just need to let bygones be bygones. The people need to be prepared and watching, because the victims are getting courage from somewhere to unveil their faces.
And the elders presently suffering their meditations in silence, you will know them. It will not be hard to tell. Just squeeze and pull on their chin a bit and see what they are made of. They just do not have something for another somewhere in their suitcase – they have given something for another. We can have loads of something for someone, but unless we give it, it is a meaningless gift. As Joe Crane said at convention one year about a thousand years ago (give or take some) that he found a Christmas card for his sister (maybe it was a birthday card, I do not remember) – anyways, he found it about 6 months later after the occasion still in his suitcase. That card was meant for his sister he said, but it never got to her.
And I am in no way suggesting the workers will not be welcome in these homes that are being remodeled after another spirit. But those workers will likely be expected to bring a few things to the meeting. One thing is well mentioned on this website and others, another will be a listening ear. Another will be the expectation they will not have the last say on the matter around the emblems. And if they have been willing to show that they desire not to shove the bread of Christ’s broken body down someone else’s throat, it will show a good first step. And then they may need to show they drink the cup representing Christ’s blood… show to their friends they belittle not that cup. These are hard sayings I am sure – who can hear them.
And I suggest…but only a suggestion for others. Take some bitters of turpentine or Frankincense and a sponge to wash the religious make-up off. Some mascara and blush is built into the human nature, but this whole Christian Door make-up kit was overrated and over-sold.
When I went to school where I had to walk in the deep snow, uphill both ways in my moccasins in both summer and winter, there was this old saying. The saying was ‘don’t bite the hand that feeds you’. Anyone want to chew on that old proverb a while? If one is given to appetite, go easy on that one. Just nibble away on it or one might choke.
Oh Holy Night. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.
sorry Mark but I guess the cobwebs have over taken my brain and I’m not following your thought pattern too well on this one. Joe Crane did have a way with words and stories though, didn’t he? The one I got the biggest kick out of was, back again back again time in thy flight I have the comeback I needed last night. We probably need to be very careful about our expectations of how the workers think or what they say would be my suggestion. When we get them to perform all things according to our expectations we find out we just have hirerlings. I have noticed that is the route some religious people take. Doesn’t seem to give the desired result.
Hi Amen,
No worries about not following my thought pattern. I expect no one to follow my thought pattern. But I expect (kind of another way of me saying I know) there are some that are getting their own thought pattern on what is happening. They are joining dots. The beggars, the victims, the survivors, the abused, the outcast, the downtrodden, the wounded, the suffering….their dots are connected, and a very winding and sometimes twisting, sometimes crooked pathway…through the echelons of society…hundreds and thousands and millions and billions of dots all connected to the next level despite what the myriad of religious and social enterprise doctrines put a disclaimer on…all connected to ever increasing and advancing levels of governance of the populace. Right up through the many levels of governance and control of people’s thought patterns, right to the kingpins of control.
And despite what four or five or six or seven or eight billion religious peoples of all ilks and fashions state by their walk, there really are two main overarching spirits vying for control of man’s hearts and minds. One employs a top down approach, the other a bottom up approach. One spirit wants to divide and conquer people’s thought processes then unite their own conquered. The other wants to unite first with His Spirit, then those will be united indeed, with the miles being no barrier. One spirit is near sighted, the other has no restriction on the depth of field.
And Amen – I very much agree with your words when you say “We probably need to be very careful about our expectations of how the workers think or what they say would be my suggestion. When we get them to perform all things according to our expectations we find out we just have hirerlings. I have noticed that is the route some religious people take. Doesn’t seem to give the desired result.”
It may seem like I have expectations of people. As you say, I need to be very careful not to have these expectations. I don’t really have expectations of people. But I can sense a person that has no expectations in themselves. When I mentioned some of the elder’s may have some expectations, the expectation would be that another would have an expectation within themselves. In the workplace, those that have no expectations in themselves will not take responsibility, do not want to be held accountable, and when things do not go well, look around for a sapling to strap the weight of blame on. In the workplace, those people need to go to some other organization for someone else to fill out their report card or performance review for them. We help people in that matter. We give them a choice – go somewhere else for employment, or the other being, your service is no longer needed here. Thank you kindly for your effort.
And about the hireling. There are natural/carnal/human hirelings. And then there are spiritual hirelings. Does anyone want to have some thought processes on that? Blow the cobwebs out people. God gave us a mind, though in different measures…He gave it to us as a gift. Shall our argument be, regardless of the measure…that we listened to and harkened to the next rung up on the ladder of spiritual society? There is a purpose in this next rung of spiritual society, and that only is the purpose to get to the next rung above them. The ladder of spiritual society, we just may find, is not anchored at the top. Picture a ladder, not anchored at the top, and getting quite top heavy with those clamoring for heaven and a form of utopia where self is the winner. The truth as we called it, and the social aspect of it, just may be like oil and water. They don’t mix well. The spiritual emulsifiers and agitation of the mixture seemed right, though it looked a bit cloudy. Just give it a time of rest and quietness and the oil will float to the top. It is raining here on the coast, but I sense the rain is petering out for those that are coasting.
And to A New Friend and SuperSilly – you are seeing things in my estimation. Keep watching. I sense some stars aligning. Who would have thought that Babylon would fall a second time. And who knows…maybe the Ottomans would have a second go at it. Who knows? We may have some notions of what a good fireworks display really looks like. I get a sense that AI (artificial intelligence) will have no motivation in learning to do reconstructive surgery on the faces of spiritual enterprise.
Supernaturallysillyd4614c417b, seems you are going through a gambit of emotions right now. And that’s okay. Frustration, anger, grief and helplessness. We have seen something and been awakened to things, that’s pretty mind blowing. Trying to navigate it all is an experience like no other for me. I read in another post on here how “we love to sit around and hear and see the testimonies of others”. I believe that the telling is going to be somewhat altered in the very near future to include our journey away from a religious system we were in for decades. There is joy in having our eyes opened and in putting our faith and trust in God and God alone. Do not be concerned about being “kicked out”. If God has revealed to you the wrong, (and he has revealed it!) then he will provide and guide you out. It’s an individual journey but there are many of us in it. For me, I had to give up trying to find some good in it, and give up hoping for the right changes to be made (just because i’ve never known anything else and this is my comfort zone), but my thoughts kept turning to all the wrong. Now there’s immense joy and peace knowing that I am no longer following an earthly, man-established religion, just following God and the Word and finding new beauties in serving Him.
I must also say here that I am so sorry about your CSA trauma but thankful you describe yourself as a “Survivor”. Your perspective is needed along with your defence of our little ones.
A new friend.
Thank you New Friend. I just wish Christ would return and He could sort this all out. Right now it is impossible to know whom to trust. There was one thought I picked up during convention season this year. “Sometimes we wonder why God takes so long to show us His will in a situation. One of the main reasons is because he wants for us to take a firm next step, which means having clear vision of that step.” I was reading in Gal 5 about walking in the spirit.
It was a little unsettling when I was young to hear older folks talk about the older they got, the less they knew. I’m not exactly old, but I am learning that the older I get, the more I realize just how little I am sure of. Sometimes even the most mundane thing needs guidance from God. The more my eyes are opened, the more I need the spirit to guide not just every step, but every breath, word, thought, etc.
For those who continue going to special meeting, conventions, etc., I do believe we have to take a sifter with us. Not every worker is going to speak something from God. There is also the part of the bible that encourages us to pray to be discerners of the spirit. When I have done this in the past, God ALWAYS lets me know when something isn’t right. But in those situations, they were like a drop in a bucket compared to all this which feels like an ocean washing over us. I feel like there is a constant hard knot in the pit of my stomach. Nothing feels right.
I was wondering if anyone had news on the truth of Gaylon VanLoon’s situation? We were told he got into some phone money scam and had to leave the work to get a job to pay back the friends. At this point, I’m not sure if any of this is correct. That man was a huge encouragement to us many years ago. He was visiting our state during conventions and noticed me walking by. He came up and greeted me. He said, you appear to have the entire world on your shoulders. I told him we were having problems with the kids and the school they were going to. He talked with us for quite a while and just before we walked away, it suddenly dawned on me there was one thing he did not say. Most workers have no clue how to advice any of us on just about everything so they have this canned answer, “Just Pray About It.” Gaylon never said that. So I thanked him for not saying it. He looked kind of surprised and then said, “I have no doubt you have already been praying. To tell you to do so would be assuming you never do. I would not disrespect you that way.” Given what an encouragement he was then, I just pray no one is going to tell me he actually got kicked out of the work because of some s.a. situation.
Suernaturallysillyd4614c417b, yes we want to be taking right steps but I feel this may be the time “watch and pray”has greater meaning and perhaps God is saying “Be still and know that I am God”. I too feel fretful and impatient and trying hard to be patient, quiet and resting assured in His omnipotence and His omniscience. I so thankful that he knows everything. He know us and what troubles us. I firmly believe God wants to exalt himself and make known his might. (After all, too many have exalted some man or woman or they have exalted themselves).
Enjoy the Season!