Dear WA, N ID & AK friends and workers,
I am sending you the new workers list for our region, along with the speaking lists for Milltown & Olympia conventions. The call-in numbers for these conventions will be Milltown 720-(Redacted); Olympia 857-(Redacted).
After our conventions, there is a plan to move forward with a few volunteer meetings which offenders and alleged offenders may be eligible to attend and participate in.
Following are some of the practical elements of a volunteer meeting:
- No children or adults who fit the alleged offender’s victim profile may attend.
- All attendees will be informed of the type of allegations against the offender or alleged offender.
- It is strongly recommended for all attendees to get their MinistrySafe certification.
https://forms.gle/dnZiQCVMqPWAfiu6A
- Offenders or alleged offenders will be required to adhere to a safety plan developed in collaboration with the Safety Team. This safety plan will include appropriate boundaries, consequences for violations, and therapy recommendations.
- If you are interested in participating in a volunteer meeting, please inform the workers in your field and/or the safety team.
The spiritual elements of a volunteer meeting will be the same as what we enjoy and expect in the rest of our meetings. If a volunteer meeting isn’t a practical option in some areas, offenders and alleged offenders may be able to call in to another volunteer meeting. If you have any questions or concerns about volunteer meetings, please contact the safety team at wanidaksafety@gmail.com.
In 2 Kings 6:15-17, Elisha’s servant went outside and saw a hostile army was surrounding the city, with horses & chariots. He feared it was an impossible situation. Elisha prayed the Lord would open the servant’s eyes, and then the servant saw a hill full of horses & chariots of fire surrounding Elisha. When our natural perspective causes us to fear, the Lord wants to open our eyes to see how much help is on our side and the victory that is assured through Him.
Thanks for your prayers and faithfulness.
With appreciation & care,
Darryl
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And no thought of meetings for victims. No shame for ignoring victims while prioritizing perps. This is what happens when you have self-appointed High Priests (uninstantiated non-scriptural “Worker Overseers”. They tolerate sexual immorality, read all about it in the last 9 verses of Rev 2. This guy carries the banner for xxxx!
Have you our anyone else given some thought to what meeting(s) specifically for survivors of SA or CSA by the hands of a wrkr or another person from meetings might look like or consist of? That is an interesting concept. Would anyone actually attend?
What I really meant was meetings of the friends (not only survivors because many want to remain Anonymous) to gather together and show support for victims praying out loud for them. Show the workers what caring is, and victims could be there too remaining anonymous. We need meetings where people are not afraid to pray out loud and speak out loud showing support of victims. That should be of far more concern than meetings showing care for immoral pedophiles, rapists, and SA’s.
I agree 100%. I’ve never heard a prayer for the victims. Most meeting people don’t even want to mention anything about the abuse victims but they feel free to pray for the workers…I’m not against praying for the workers however it’s not only the workers who need prayers. Some seem to make a show of especially praying for the workers when workers are in the meeting…kinda embarrassing to me.
I agree 100%. I’ve never heard a prayer for the victims in Sunday meeting. Lyle Schober did mention the “people who have been hurt” in his convention prayer in 2023. Meeting people almost always pray for the workers but not for abuse victims. Especially embarrassing is when some gush in prayer about the workers when workers are present. I guess it’s an ugliness they don’t want to acknowledge and if ignored will go away.
I agree with you Bill and Tom.
Praise has been going up (but not much to God), and punching has been downward. It is hard for them to relinquish the upward praise as long as the praise ventures no further than the hair of their own head. But any praise from those that their boots are walking on seems of no concern. Those souls are as dust under their boots – just to be shaken off.
The upper echelons of this religious society continues to insist on someone below them wash their feet. Maybe if they stood on their head, they would get their perspectives right side up. The clutches of this secret society of secrecy are severe.
Keep punching up Tom and Bill. And there are those that seem to have silent voices in the church and the victims and survivors may feel somewhat alone. I do believe there are those that are having a conversation on what to do. I am coming to some semblance of understanding – it may be more people than I thought even two weeks ago. They just aren’t talking to many people about it though. The victims of religious wrangling I believe will have their day in Court. When the Judge comes in, He will know who had a soft spot in their heart for the victims, and conversely who didn’t give a squat about the victims. He will know where our praise was directed. And right now, it is evident to me at least, there are those that left their First love behind in favor of bestowing honor and praise to the organization and the masters of the organization. And it seems many of the masters are not only encouraging the praise of said organization and religious social group, they are even praising themselves by what I see from their actions.
But have courage – I do sense the burden of the downtrodden is being lifted bit by bit…and the burden at the top is getting heavier, bit by bit. The first will be last and the last will be first. The victims and the forsaken of this group may feel like the last and the least, but I believe they have an Advocate. If it is not time for the Advocate to clean house, then He will know who He can trust and rely on to clean house for Him. I do believe the house was at one time swept and garnished. But that appears like it was before any of our time. Time to declutter our own houses from thoughts that drag us down to despair; and say ‘phewwy’ on those that imply they are worthy to sit in Jesus seat (or Moses…which ever seat they prefer). And they have decided and determined and stated the ones that were not worthy to break bread at the Master’s Table. When a person starts understanding these people’s philosophy, it actually starts seeming amusing. By their ‘virtue’ of not backing up, or turning around their chariot of ‘heavenly’ fire and not seeking the ‘lost’ souls, it seems their ‘spiritual brief’ could already have been written. They likely have time to rewrite it, don’t know. I just don’t get the sense there are any swashbuckling, smooth talking attorneys in heaven though that could defend that brief they believe is watertight and bullet proof. At the present time, one proselyte is worth more than 10,000 forsaken by the enterprise. It is hard not to see….in my estimation. But alas, some people just don’t want to see. It is what it is. We all have an eye for something or another.
The shunning can stop. But I wonder if each individual has to take it on ourselves to stop it. I think it will stop when we say enough is enough within ourselves. I don’t recall ever flippin’ the bird at anyone…but maybe inside, and in my writing, that is exactly what I am doing to people that think they are a superior religious breed of homosapiens. But maybe I am just one caveman wagging my middle finger at the other cavemen. The picture is kind of funny to me. Maybe I needed that picture. In the end times it is written in prophecy that man’s knowledge will increase and people will be going to and fro. Has the race maybe not arrived there? But for some reason, society seems to be returning to the caves of the primates. With all man’s apparent knowledge of good and evil, a love for truth and the truth of love seems to be waning. Mankind in general musta been picking from the wrong tree. Need to get back to the garden and try again. The cherubims may only be there at the gate to test our faith in venturing to and talking to the Unseen One. There will be healing there for the outcasts. They can get their life back. To hell with them that have no interest in the outcasts going back to the garden and getting their life back. The cheribs might just be waving their middle wings at those people feigning they sit in the seat of the Great High Priest…or the ones sitting at the feet of those that are marketing their spiritual superiority and boasting of their exclusive VPN to the Master.
sorry. Am sure you had good things to say, but TLDR.
Couldnt/didn’t follow
Does anyone really pay attention to this anyway?
Bashing some worker decision one isn’t going to follow anyway seems a bit strange and judgemental, to me. I don’t know any of the people mentioned or referred to on this thread. from a distance, seems adults should be able to make their own rational decisions and accept the fact that people are never going to agree on everything. I kind of feel a little sad for this Darryl or Dollie. I don’t think he or his colleagues could make ANY decision that is gonna make everybody happy. And why SHOULD they be expected to? Much ado about nothing, IMO.
No need to apologize Toolong. I did reread my writing for you and I feel assured I had nothing good to say though. I saved you that trouble at least. But I do understand and accept my writing will be understood by few – and it will be read by fewer. I am content and satisfied with that. If most of the people understood and wanted to read my writing, then I would have been assured I was likely in the wrong tract. But I do see the desert starting to bloom as paradise. The long dormant flora of the semi arid veld I see awakening. But the dust and rocks…I see they are still dust and rocks. Without the dust and rocks though, the flora would have had no foundation to take root and prosper at the time appointed. God bless the awakening flora. The cacti that were only considered a prickly nuisance, are livening in splendid colour. And God bless the dust and rocks for playing their part. And God bless the rain that made all the difference.
in bocca al lupo my friend. May the wind be in your sails in a favourable direction. There is a strong north wind blowing. There is much in the stars that people DR. Oh well. Whatever. Not everyone on earth can see the southern cross. And journeying there to see it would take TL.
Appreciate your words Mark, the flora is indeed awakening.
@Mark S, @Kanne, sometimes creative writing and metaphor are good ways to make points, and I think in general I get your gist.
However, if you do have some good news or updates to impart, please don’t write in parables and code, but in plain language. Some of us, who are maybe a bit isolated from whatever other conversation channels may exist, are desperately weary of scanning and hoping for rays of light in this darkness. Factual information is very welcome.
I hear you Observer. And I think it interesting what you say and ask of me.
And you are not the first person that has asked me to write in clear language. Even a couple people I know that know who Mark S is because I have told them. One that I care about asked me to write in laymen’s terms. But it seems to be beyond my calling. You have added another dimension to asking me to provide some clear and concise good news. If I interpret that correctly… some numbers, some facts – this or that is happening, these people are getting together and making decisions, and so on and so forth…and everything will come out beautiful. Just beautiful.
But I have no exclusive good news really on where the church as we all (except for the forsaken and despised) ‘knew’ it and as it appeared to be in past days. But there are rays of light in this darkness as you say – which incidentally is a bit of metaphor in itself. As far as the numbers, the numbers of devious individuals in the church seem to be increasing according to the record and the leaders of the church seem to fleeing any accountability, and the remainder of the workers seem to be following them in that flight from accountability or care or compassion. Most of this is already said though in plain language by others. The workers seem not to be cut out for anything other than a following of people that believe in ‘them’. This is an interesting thing to me. And it paints a picture. But in the night, I see this is not true of all the workers, that I could tar them all with the same brush and using the same stain from the stain pot of religious white wash. It looks that way right now by the interpretation of my carnal eyes, but I see in visions KM. KM has not wanted to look at me in the first vision, but she was riding in the same vehicle with me. Three times now I have seen her. She seems to cut out for a calling. The last time she was sitting at the end of a table with numerous sisters sitting there. But in the third vision, when I sat down at the table, there was one sister at the table that was devious. Another vision, RW had gathered numerous people, including people from her homeland, and one from Europe wanted to talk with me. But RW’s husband was not at the table. In another vision, another one that I know, a visible bruise on her face, is standing at a table. Her husband is helping her put her coat on, but there is love coming forth from the bruised one to her husband. Numerous sisters are standing at the table with her, and other sisters come out of the back room. But they say nothing. It is a solemn gathering. But I know where they stand in this matter before the church – the matter that is not being stamped out this time around by the rulers of the church, the synagogue of the 2x2s.
So I see in this whole thing a lot of darkness. But I see a little light, whether it be in people I am talking to face to face, or people that are writing. The people that I believe care, are troubled and burdened. But I also see other things. But here is the thing. And believe it or not, I find it very hard to put this what I see into logical and simple writing. The masses it seems want to be told what the truth is in simple terms. Fair enough. We all want to be told what the truth is. So, what do we do as a people? We tune into the station that agrees with ‘our’ truth. What our bias is, what we want to believe, what the building blocks of our upbringing and life’s journey told us what truth was. We look for agreement in the church and with our friends. We look for the agreement on the faces. If we see a bit of confusion, we change our stories to suit. So maybe either the button on CNN is worn out, or the button on Fox news is heavily selected. Mankind seems not interested in truth really; they seem interested in something agreeing with ‘their’ truth. And I think we read the bible the same way. We tune into what is written there and massage it and conform it to ‘our’ truth. Man has tuned into whatever radio station, TV channel, newspaper or social media contacts of their liking…or they have conformed the bible to their own way of thinking. And most of that direction in their lives is conformed to what they want to believe, that which benefits themselves or that of their family the most. Now; where on earth do the following words recorded of Jesus fit into this picture? For instance, where it is recorded that Jesus said “I am the truth”. And further where he said, ‘the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.’ Faith in the Holy Spirit is zippo. Zilch. Our faith is in the bible, in the political party that pays us and our family the most benefits, the religious institution that guarantees us passage to the pearly gates. Our faith is not spiritually based – it is land based. Our mind is already made up on what is the blessing and what is the curse.
So really, what do I know about what the truth is with respect to where the church is headed or where our countries are headed or where the world is headed? But I see something. Call me a dreamer. I am fine with that. And when I write, it flows out of me in the manner it does. Who am I to contend with the spirit that I would tell Him he needs to give it to me in simple terms for all the people to understand? Who am I to suggest to Him that I am not getting many likes and He has to flow it through me in a more digestible manner for people that do not want to ask, or knock, or seek for themselves? And guess what? It does not flow out of me in an easy to read, easy to comprehend, straight forward, numbers and figures, fact-based writing. Some of it does, but my fingers lay it down like it comes out of my brain, and evidently out of my heart. I am thankful I am a 10 fingered typer. Maybe my only claim to fame. Because some mornings, it flows fast. Other mornings I am not prompted to write. Some days I write, but then the spirit tells me it was only for me. Some days I write and post, then something unsettles me and I email Wings and ask them to remove what I posted. If I wanted to get up everyone’s nose, I would post everything I write. On the one hand, I apologize to people for being opaque enough to prompt them to think. In the religious organization, who am I to tell another what the truth is about the risen Christ? He claimed that place for Himself. On the other hand, I do not apologize for being cryptic. And here is why. If people do not comprehend my writing, I wish them luck. I believe they will need it. Because if they care not to read my writing because they do not wish to chew on it, then they will surely not venture into prophecy. And if they are not prepared to chew on prophecy that is in the bible they adore and ask some questions of the Holy Spirit, then from what I am seeing, they are missing the crux of what has gone on in the church; the coverups of truth. And the matter of CSA by some of the ministers and some of the elders in place of position, power and authority? Prophecy reveals to me, that is only part of a very deep root in all religious organizations that want members and followers. They seek not to point souls to Christ, and let the Holy Spirit lead the way. They want to be the leaders of people. They look not for the followers of the risen Christ. They want followers of their organization, and they want followers of Jesus. Keep Jesus on the cross. Or keep Jesus in the grave. Or keep the man Jesus alive. Keep worshiping the man Jesus. As long as they can convince man to follow the son of man, they make the bible their god. The Son of God is a joke to them, though they believe they take Him seriously. Or they have a sense, they lose their power when someone begins to consult the Holy Spirit. The risen Christ otherwise goes unknown. Not even a mention of the risen Christ when we partake of the emblems. He shed his blood we say, and maybe mention He rose from the dead. And that is where our faith and thinking stops. Yes, I am generalizing a bit I am sure, but not many in the meetings around the world where I have sat in meetings and conventions have ever given me a sense that they have moved beyond the veil. They are stuck in the tabernacle, or maybe moved into the temple with walls of inlayed gold between the stones.
So in my writing, I think my job is to prompt people to think, and ask, and search, and seek, and knock…for themselves. Not to tell them what the truth is about the workings of the Holy Spirit. Not my job. And not some high falutin’ religious leader’s job either, truth be known.
So, I will just mention this also. People wonder where I am coming from. Here is a little piece of it. Nobody needed to know this, but it might shine some light on why this new revelation to most of the people in the church about the shite covered up in the church…has burdened me. And why I write. An older friend in the meeting I went to lost her husband. I said I would take her to meeting. I took her for 11 years, every Sunday and every Wednesday evening except for when I had to be away on business. I took her until her last days in a respite home awaiting her death. Our friend did the best she could, and raised three children that go to meeting. But she had ghosts. Ghosts that affected her deeply. And her husband had ghosts also. Her parents went to meeting, whatever that means. They didn’t want her. They put her on a bus to an aunt’s place to live. The aunt said “If your parents don’t want you, what makes you think we do?” Ya. I saw the effects of a life abused and forsaken as a child. She ended up at as a child at a dear friend’s place in Georgetown, Ontario. I say dear friend, because that woman was a saint that went to meeting. It made a difference in her life, but the freakin’ scars were there to her dying day. Once in a while, I would get a bit agitated and tell her to let bygones be bygones. But the wounds went deep. And I knew it was beyond me to heal those wounds. It was out of my wheelhouse. But what was in my wheelhouse was to care, and take her to meeting, and show some compassion, and take her by the hand. The meetings that she loved, and made her feel a part of something, and made her feel accepted and included. But she saw something. She saw an injustice in the church. An injustice that was condoned and chuckled at in the church, even by some of the big guys. And it was some of the big guys, and the ultra religious that would chuckle and call her my girlfriend. She looked steadfastly at the ground, her back bent for most of her life. She could not look up. Life had handed her a great burden on her shoulders. It bent her back, and cast her eyes to the ground. She needed to hold my hand every step of the way, because she would trip on the slightest uneven ground, or get startled at the least unexpected noise. But I did not take her to get groceries or other matters aside from meeting. She would phone the local taxi company and request a certain individual for that duty. An individual that she was comfortable with. An individual that no doubt she felt a kind spirit coming from. And he would show up, long pony tail and tattooed, a rough character by religious standards, and take her by the hand and wait for her to do her shopping. Ya, this ministry as far as the eye can see, don’t know shit about kindness. They fawn over the kindness bestowed upon themselves, but show diddly squat in their lives any kindness to someone that isn’t to their liking. But what my human eye can see, is not the truth of the matter. We are not seeing the truth of the matter just yet. Some of them care; but God will reveal it in His time. And a move will be made. What day will that be? I cannot tell. I am saying, there are those that can read the writing on the wall. But the magicians of the religion don’t seem to have a clue what the writing says. I appreciate Observer that you tried to understand my writing. You are getting a piece of the thread. Just keep pulling. But the magicians and charlatans? They are so taken up with trying to make this most recent revelation in the church disappear for preservation of themselves and the organization, they have no time to understand prophecy. People can fit into whatever they want to fit in to. I came not to try to tell people the truth. But I came not to fool you either. I came not to tell people what they want to hear. I came to encourage them to look for Truth themselves. The wise and prudent can stick with feeding on truth from their favorite politician of governance – the governance of a nation(s), or the governance of the church that meets in a home. If people are not seeing parallels in the governance of those two things right now, then maybe they just don’t wanna. The world of religious zealots are casting their devices on the defenseless and vulnerable…and their followers are saying, ‘Ya, right on! Way to go! Tell it like it is! You got my vote! We and the such-and-such others are the chosen ones. God will prevail and bring the enemy down.” The enemy in our minds are the ones standing in rags, staring down the barrel of our armor plated Shermans. Religion can be thanked for that bit of nonsense.
Who knows. Maybe this dumb ass will stop speaking in tongues one day so it can edify absolutely everyone in the home meeting church. But you might have 42 minus 17 months to wait. You want to know something I believe? This 2×2 church was the queen of queens. A very special and significant church in a sense. But the king of Kings was belittled. We of all people were most vulnerable. An interesting vision I have. The sisters will take the reins in this matter burdening the church….to get the King back on the throne. Maybe time for Adam to quit feeling sorry for himself and laying it on that he was a victim. The preposterousness first man Adam needs to get over feeling that Eve owes him a rib. I have not been given the latitude to speak clearer. I am sorry…if I have provided no one hope, nor provided a means of allowing a ray of sunshine to enter their soul. But I know this is not the truth. And if a worker would just go and hold a forsaken or abuse one’s hand, they would open a passage to let the light shine into their own soul. Otherwise, darkness reigns supreme within them. We love so much to shine our flashlight (called a torch in all the former British colonies except for Canada for some strange reason) into someone else’s soul – but a fearful thing to shine it into our own. What is the truth today? It may come one day with a gush and a blush. Like Kenny said one time, ‘I will shut up now’. But inside me, I hope he did not shut up. Because I think he is a good man. I could tell he cared about the children. Pity those that care not about the children – His children. The ones that care not about the lost children of Israel must be a most miserable crew…making merry with their friends when it may be appropriate that they be mourning at this time for their brother or sister. The brother or sister they know not they have. Or the brother or sister they chose not to recognize. They friggin’ think they are the only child! Or at least the only child that matters. They all think, they only are due the fatted calf. They need to look in the mirror. They may be the fattened calf themselves. A part of the cluster on the vine. I can’t explain this in simple terms and spoon feed people what it means if someone wants me to spoon feed them – but it may be worth people’s time, to ask some questions about the cluster on the vine. Small vee. The characters to be pitied in the church, that think they have the monopoly on the revelation of the risen Christ, when they are still sitting at the feet of Jesus; the messiah that said he would go, but he would send the Comforter. The abused by 2×2 religious power and authority are now finding comfort, and the rulers are in torment. A fake smile of confidence on their face. Albeit moaning about people that don’t praise them. But whatever. We observe what we want to observe. Is the glass of the church half empty? Or is it half full? I do not perceive it is full. And the ones on the platform saying it is full? I think their cup is full of bologna. But I could be wrong; it may be full of prune juice. Between you and me, let’s just keep that a dirty little secret between ourselves.
Keep your chin up Observer. And lift your eyes. There is an army on the mountain you may not see yet.
Mark S: WOW! AND it all comes down to the Holy Spirit! When God wanted the Tabernacle built, how were ‘just mere men’ able to ‘perfect’ their assigned project. Exodus 31: as The LORD continued to speak to Moses in the Mount for the 40 days(Exodus 24:12.asked Moses to come up TO ME into the mount; Exodus 25: thro 31: is the LORD speaking to Moses) Here is a very important verse: related to your manuscript. Exodus 31:1 – :5 verse :3 God tells Moses how God has arranged to HAVE work done by mere men to be perfect for this “sanctuary” that the LORD may dwell among them(the children of Israel). — :3 I have filled him with the “”spirit of God”” ………… to devise cunning works ——— etc..
We see this happen in OT scripture when God had special works to be done ‘exactly’! They were given the LORD’s spirit. In the NT we read of this very thing also happening.
What we see when Jesus gave the ‘keys of the kingdom of heaven’ to Peter, we also see Jesus give to all the 12 in Matthew 18:15 – :20. If only two or three agree on earth to a solution to a problem with your bro in the church::–Jesus assures them “”it will be done for them of my “Father” which is in heaven””!Did Jesus here, give those 12 a special way to discern??
With this same thought of the ‘Holy Spirit’: Jesus promised the 12 a ‘comforter’ when he would leave them. We see that happen in Acts 2:. In Acts 2: thro Acts 7: this guiding them and we see their ability to teach, guide and deal with the very Government of Israel who was determined to stop their ministry. After God turned from Israel with their gospel of their promised Kingdom of Heaven on Earth-(Acts 13:45 – :47, Acts 18:4 – :6, and Acts 28:17 – :25-:28) and blinded (Romans 11:7 – :15) them; and turned to the Gentiles.
AND here is the thought: — God gave to Paul the “dispensation of the Grace of God” for you “Gentiles”(Ephesians 3:1-:9 and etc.). The result of the finished work of Jesus who paid our sin “debt” = Romans 3:21 – :26. Our Good News = Gospel is 1 Cor. 15:1-:4 and according to Ephesians 1:12 – :13 IS — In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, “”the gospel of your salvation””: whom also after “”YE BELIEVED””, ye were sealed WITH that Holy Spirit of promise! What does it say YOU were sealed with? THAT “Holy Spirit of promise”.
After reading your ‘manuscript’ here; and your reference to the “spirit”, and ask: where is the Holy Spirit? THAT will lead you into ALL Truth? Perhaps we need to read the Good News = Gospel; that the risen Christ from Heaven at God’s right hand gave to Saul. The record begins in Act 9:. focus on :3 – :5 after Saul asks God: ‘What will you have me to do?’ Ephesians 3:1-:9 explains as does 1 Tomothy 1:11 – :16 and is given to Timothy to continue- :18. Yes, so much to learn and understand. BUT we see in your manuscript; the very spirit of a very needed soul as she sought her God in the only way she knew how. Thank you for helping that dear soul. And we agree; there is an army on the mountain and in the valley THAT is our strength! AND God reveals that strength is “NOW” in the dispensation of the Gospel of the Grace of God that was given to Paul to minister. While the Good News for the Nation of Israel ‘has been blinded’ Romans :25 – :27 until after the “catching-away” =1 Thess. 4:13 – :17 THEN Paul further explains to Christ’s church which is his body(Eph.1::22-:23) in 2 Thess. 2:1 – :3(a)after the rapture’ then God will go back to that 1 Thess.2:3(b) Nation of Israel and the beginning of the “tribulation’ after which God will fulfill all his promises and covenants for that Israel; all who believe and obey God’s Law and commandments; completely trusting their Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. That is their promised Kingdom in Revelation 21:, beautiful New Jerusalem! Read verses :12 and :14.
Mark S. Some where in your manuscript you emphasis the Holy Spirit. Jesus is informing his 12 in John 13:11 Ye are not all clean, then after Jesus told Judas: “that thou doest, do quickly”; then it is to the 11 Jesus promises their ‘Comforter’: John 15:26 and what ‘even the Spirit of truth will testify’ and why :27. It seems God gave the Holy Spirit when “it was very important” that man would NOT goof-up God’s work! Like in Exodus 31:3… and 35:31 – :35. NOW, in this evil, revealing, putrid Time of self importance and refusal to know God, it is NOT the Holy Spirit of God, the Father; THAT is unable to enfold the very ones THAT they destroyed; but offer acceptance and deep concern for the abusers of CSA and CA and just plain human abuse. It IS the very controlling “spirit of “satan” described in 2 Cor. 11:13-15.
Is that why God gave the comforter(John 15: – 16:) = ‘Holy Spirit’ to the 12 in Acts 2:? We see those 12, even as THAT Government of Israel tried to STOP their even ‘talking about Jesus’ were very able to continue to minister to THAT very Government and to the multitude: even to the very Supreme Court as they tried to stamp-out the very mention of Jesus NAME! AS that very Government of Israel with their very own hands stoned Stephen, who had the Holy Spirit shining through his face; (Acts 7:55 – :60) committed the ‘unforgivable sin’ Jesus had warned THAT very government of in Matthew 12:31-32. AND THAT was the beginning of God turning from that Nation of Israel with the “ministry’ of ‘your promised, covenanted Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is at Hand. God removed his Holy Spirit from the 12.((Notice Acts 7:56 Jesus standing(in judgement-Psalms 7:6 and James 5:9; Result is Romans 11:7-:15 explains Israel’s condition, now:, but not forever as Paul explains in Romans 11:25-:27).
But God’s record continues; inspite of Israel’s ‘unforgivable sin’. Romans 3:21, Paul explains it as “But NOW((a change: God’s hidden plan explained in Ephesians 3:1-:9. ) How and what is God’s NOW plan and what does it have to do with the Holy Spirit? Ephesians 1:12 – :13 — ye trusted after ye heard the ‘word of truth’, the gospel of your salvation, IN WHOM ALSO after “YE BELIEVED, ye were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.!!! THAT is the “quickened” of 2:5 …… :8 For by grace are ye saved, and THAT NOT of yourselves: “”it is the gift of God!!! So God has NOW given to all who “believe” Jesus died, was buried and Rose again, from the dead; “”His Holy Spirit”” and dwells with-in each ‘believer’. ((NO one can take that from us)). You are correct that the Holy Spirit will guide each and everyone ‘who believes’! How ever that promise is NOT to those “who believe something else”! and only in their very own adulterated, twisted, self importance”! We shudder to think we gave our complete existence to be controlled by them. We are very grateful we could flee from their wrath TO God’s Holy Word which leads to “even the Spirit of truth” which proceeded from the Father, he shall testify of me(Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour). Yes, Mark, without the guiding of the Holy Spirit, our ability to know with our human mind, and to value the hidden innocent precious lives born in God’s image, we cannot hold them close. Thank you for reminding us there are ‘most buttons’ we can shut OFF!
I am sorry Observer. I am sure I answered not like you wanted. I do feel a bit isolated also. I have somewhat distanced myself a bit – so in that sense, I kind of have isolated myself. And maybe I feel like a lot of other people that are still going to meeting that are looking at this issue dragging on, being weighted down with the workers dragging their feet or digging in. Everyone generally only has a few people they talk to in confidence. I have kind of said to myself, I will let people contact me if they want to talk. But you would likely have to admit, I may have a leg up on you for people knowing who I am. One thing that kind of helped me a week or so ago. I talked to a person on email and they said they had visited another province and someone tugged at her shirt sleeve and whispered in her ear. That other person had talked to two others. There may be more whispering going on than we think. One whispers to another two, and those other two whisper each to another two and so on.
The church has been afflicted with the few whispers in high places. Now paint me the picture of what you see. The whispering and weeping willows, spring up as among the grass beside the water courses. I never thought I could paint such an interesting picture of a legion of whispers. But the oaks of Bashan stand tall, as stately reminders.
Thanks for your replies, @Mark S, and no need to apologize, please.
Re: people knowing who you are and being able to contact you if they wish, thank you for being in that position. Among my own contacts in the friends-and-workers community, I’m continuing to have many open conversations about the abuse problems, and trying to press for effective changes, repentance, and protections. (I can’t post on public pages like Wings with my real name, because my professional work would be negatively affected by my name coming up in internet searches in association with child sexual abuse. I’m very grateful to those who are able to add weight and credibility to their posts by using their real names.)
You and I both mentioned feeling isolated e.g. from factual information about how the abuse problems are being addressed, or not, in the fellowship that has meant a lot to us over years. I’m glad you’ve heard whispers of whispers, although I desperately wish these weren’t just whispers but open conversations that lead to real and lasting improvements. Anyway, in case it might be helpful for anyone else, here is a list of freely and openly accessible websites I’ve found that do provide some factual updates AND don’t require a Facebook account or any kind of registration or log-in. Many, many thanks to everyone who helps to provide these resources which are a great help:
Addendum, sorry, I also wanted to mention these encouraging video resources, one serious, one humorous:
I’m not big on quoting bible verses, but I did once read something about shouting from rooftops and praying in a “closet” or some other private place. I think God hears an honest prayer wherever it’s offered in sincerity. That’s the way I understand it.
If a person really wants to express understanding, pity and meaningfully share sorrow WITH a victim, seems reaching out and communicating directly TO said victim would have a stronger natural and human impact?
Simply showing outward indication of expression by saying public words is a human event at best, and may assuage some grief. Maybe that’s enough for some?
As an anonymous victim (most of us are) I definitely do not want to be directly contacted by individuals I have not confided in. Many of us cannot afford to confide.
There are thousands of us. We would like to hear publicly that we are believed and cared for. Not only in a scripted announcement by a figurehead, but often and by everyone, when we feel safe to show up and hear it.
But we, like you, also recognize words can be empty, and certainly would welcome any donations you can make to victim funds, or knowledge you can share with the FBI.
To Anon – I will do what I can in secret to be a help, to you and all that witnessed this dark cloud in the church. I feel privileged now – to know now, what I didn’t know then. I know I can never feel your pain, but I did ask that I could feel a small piece of it. Some days, I want to reverse that request to the One that always knew the truth of the matter. “I heard there was a secret chord, that Anon played and it pleased the Lord.”
And look at your friend(s) that in confidence and strength and trust you look to and secretly feel the love and care coming from them. The religious world is so confused about what an angel is. And what an angel can do. And I think it was religious man that wrote something about angels never going through what we went through and they could never understand and feel the pain – so we were told they could never feel the joy afterwards. Religious man, and consequently many I listen to in meetings, find the topic of angels and prayer a great mystery. What is an angel? Can we see them? Will one appear to me? And ‘oh Lord, teach me how to pray’ they say. Some people will go to the grave, praying or speaking in their last meeting, saying ‘Lord, teach me to pray”. I am convinced, that the greatest conspiracy ever to hoodwink mankind, of all nations, and tongues and kindreds, will be the spirit of religious enterprising control that rose up out of the sea.
But other angels have a different job to do. They have not much time for sitting down and eating at the tent door. They were told about a cry that was going up. They were instructed to do something, and nothing stood in their way of doing it. And the whole religious world has this notion of what that cry was about and who it came from. But only a few family members in that city were given the message. And some of the family mocked and went back to their feasting. And the chosen ones dilly-dallied and the angels had to grip their arms and say ‘now’. But unfortunately, there will always be those that look back in some kind of wistful way as they cross the sea parted for them.
And the ones that come out of that city may not be the top notch, righteous, squeaky clean ones – they actually may seem a little strange to the eye, even mine – but we read in prophecy that Moab will escape another day foretold up the road. You may not find Moab on Google Maps…but you will find Jordan. Same place.
I think I am getting to know a little piece of the cost of the forsaken. Because I asked for it. A friend showed up at my house a couple weeks ago and asked me if I had eaten lately. And asked if I had weighed myself lately. She does not go to meeting (though she tried at one time), but she has had visions also. She really understands not all my pain. But she sees it. She herself has known pain. The pain of remembrance of running out into the street in the night as a little girl, time after time, and screaming for a neighbor to call the police to come help her mother.
I don’t know. Maybe I am just feeling sorry for myself. But maybe not. But what I am feeling sorry for are those that come hell or high water, they seem not interested or willing in pushing back from the table and interrupting their feasting to fast for a while on this matter before the church. My own father, a man that us kids and most of the friends did not really understand, in his moroseness we thought he was feeling sorry for himself. His heart was laden by the proud stompings of the religious on the vulnerable and defenseless. I do wonder… if my dad went to the grave with a secret. A secret, that he did not want to burden his family with. Because he always said when we were at wits end, “I do not want to burden my family”. And guess what!? The irony of it all. By I suppose love or whatever else (even fear), we did not force our way into the quagmire within his own mind, heart and soul. We let him deal with the devils there alone. But the interesting part. His burden burdened us. I look back and have often thought. If only he had opened himself up and let the pain of truth flow out, he might have unburdened all of us that were close to him.
Anon. Keep flowing the pain to your angels that bring you comfort. I am confident, the pit of your pain is not bottomless. Your angel(s) will help you unload that burden – at least some of it.
I have often struggled with these people that have to be seen at every funeral. We all say it is in support of the survivors…the living. Fair enough. But it amuses me all the flowers on the casket and placed around it. Nothing wrong with it – but did any of those people that brought flowers to place on the grave, ever bring that person a flower in lifetime? In their time of need? There is a backwardness in the church it seems – bestowing honor and dignity on the dead, and burying the survivors. Maybe think about what or who we did, or who or what we will, pay our last respects to.
And there are some other angels you may not see Anon that have been tasked with another job. To the religiously inclined, trying to guard their banquet table, those angels have proven, and will prove, miserable discomforters to those inclined. Those angels may just be saying, ‘You people have circled this mountain long enough’. Is anyone listening? It may be saying, ‘do something, or I/we have been instructed to do it for you’. Now ask Siri, or Google where that mountain is. Is that an eagle I see circling up there? Or is it a buzzard? Or is it both? Hard to tell though! They look the same from where I am standing. There is a difference in the two though. Paint that picture for me. While you are at it, maybe paint another picture -of how the one olive tree in prophecy can be from spiritual Egypt, and the other from spiritual Sodom. You will have to take your religious/human head covering off to get at least a little grip on that one. Now ask yourself. Ask yourself why there will be a certain sparing of Egypt…or egypt … along with Moab. And I am the condemned one for asking people secretly where they stand! Play with the words. We were taught how to be good at it. Why do the words fail us now? Some older friends in my circles seem to like Scabble. But most seem to be shying away from, and buffering themselves from the hard scrabble. The hard scrabble that builds character. But character within seems of little interest to people. They just want to freewheeling point their finger and say with self righteous complacency – “That person is a character”. They perceive not the compliment bestowed. If they only knew. If they only knew what a rogue worker with character could do. If they could only see through the dark glass, and see the backing. If they could only see through the dark cloud of their own covering and doing.
There is hope for all. But hope has a sneaky way of fading at times if we don’t get our bloody hands out of our pockets and put on a little sweat. There may be some quaking and shaking involved. A friend asked me a few months ago as they sat at my table and watched me – “Mark, do you have the onset of Parkinson’s?” My dad spent the last 10 years of his life with it. No. I don’t think it is Parkinson’s. I think it is the onset of something else. Many in the church it seems are rushing though to buy the pill that starts early Alzheimer’s. It worked for others in the church, why would it not be good for them also? And I am not talking about those that buried their own pain that others could go free. Those freedom seekers, seem happy as if they were in their right mind.
Maybe start pulling at the spiritual thread that is a little loose along the spiritual seem. Heaven forbid they investigated not the weavers shuttle; and the spools of yarn that fed it. Or was there only one spool of yarn? Oh how they so yarn for yesterday. The yesterday before the day that most of us spiritually placed spiritual bouquets on Dean Brauer’s resting place. I question not what he is thinking now. Because possibly he has just transitioned into another realm of no thought to be had. So strange and wonderous it seems to me after 17 or 18 months – that so many are not looking for a different set of foot prints to follow. You can lead a horse to water, but… – there seems always be a but. A but, and a what if. Religious man seems to appreciate the buts, but poops their pants and commits harikari on the what ifs. Socrates said “The unexamined soul is not worth living”. Was he talking about his own soul or everyone’s soul? I think the answer to those two questions is yes.
As a divorced and remarried survivor of Jay Wilson in 1965, I am sickened and disgusted by the fact he, Rob Newman and Kent Williston see CSA/SA as much less offensive than divorce and remarriage. I’m forbidden to participate at any level in all meetings even though approved by 3 overseers and receiving pre marriage approval in Missouri. Don’t preach about unity and compassion!!!
William Johnson
I totally agree William Johnson. Rapist, child molesters, total whacks of any kind get better treatment than you. These so called overseers could not oversee a 7/11 grocery store. Then Dolley baby uses that reference in the Bible. What a total joke. You mentioned the two overseers RN and KW. Also Dolley baby and Doyle Smithey would have to be mentioned as well. Throw in Johnny Parish and a whole lot of other so called leaders. Johnny Wright (or is it wrong) comes to mind as well. Oh, I forgot the Montana cowboy. I’ll let you guess on that one.
I think Darryl is trying. Just my impression. I think there is some substance to him, but I do not know. I have a sense that he wants to arrive, but he is waffling a bit at the place where two ways meet.
But no doubt, he sees an army or two before him.
Before I plunge into ‘darkness’, I would like to ask a question.
Why can the workers not go two together and meet with the offender and have a meeting together? It is written that Jesus said, ‘where two or three are met in my name, there will I be also”. It seems like a simple answer to the issue, no? But, ahh yes. Maybe there are obscure reasons in some for fuzzifying simplicity? Nothing like fuzzifying the falsification of truth! A means to an end!
So now I will venture into my ‘dark’ side. Please do not read if the bible is your defacto savior and you are fearful of my words.
I sort of like Elisha, the one that Darryl mentions. I like different parts of his story. I like him until I don’t trust him. I just don’t know. Did he, like some people in life have an earth changing experience that eventually made him a better man? Did he start off a monster with great pride, and then somewhere along the way get shaken, and started to have a different kind of faith? Finally, a faith in what he could not see with his human eyes, and then his experience moved on from the bondage of a faith in things on which he could see with his eyes and hear with his ears? Or did his faith crest and fall and crest again at times like a wave on the sea…like maybe mankind may be so prone to? And on the flip side of this, do some start off as servants to One, and through the passage of time become the blind servant to another or others? Maybe?
Let me read a couple verses if people will allow to illustrate my point. It was just after Elisha took the mantle from Elijah – that is if I have the story right. Or if the scribes recorded it according to the truth that resides somewhere between the right hand and the left. And if the priests didn’t tell the scribes to wordsmith it a little bit, or a lot to the right…or a lot to the left. And many times I do not have my story right. I hardly know my own story, let alone someone else’s.
I quote the story:
22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake.
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
Such a beautiful few verses for those that are standing at the podium right now, speaking into the mic. So beautiful. Very beautiful verses. Two she bears! Gotta love ’em! Beautiful she bears! Two of them! Sent by God himself! Everybody even says so! And those she bears healed the waters! Even to the present day, 6th August 2024.
Like I have mentioned in a previous writing, I do find the number 42 interesting. But what I also find interesting is, there is something to be found in the bible that will justify every point of view and every ambition of every person or institution of every kindred and tongue and nation.
Now someone please! Please tell me how Elisha cursing these children ‘in the name of the Lord’ because he did not like their mocking of his bald head and whatever else disturbed him … that it justified his spirit toward those children? His spirit and response to the situation did not align with Moses teaching and ten commandments before him, nor did it align with Jesus’ teaching after him. Search the scriptures and a person will find exactly what they are after and what they are looking for. Search the mind of Christ, and I am assured; some roadblocks will go up before us all. Those roadblocks are merely suggestions to religious man though it seems. Circumnavigating these roadblocks are easy sneezy with the right vehicle and a study of the operator’s manual – just drive around them. Some will take a 4×4. Others no prob with a 2 wheel drive. I used to have a 2 wheel drive, but some barriers were a bit dicey getting around them. I got stuck sometimes…so I opted for the 4×4.
Faith sees the heavenly legions, where doubt sees not but foes. Who are people’s foes right now? Who are you desiring them to be? I have had much meditation where I see myself, and others, conflating the idea of truth with the idea of belief. We blend those two things in a Vitamix and drink the smoothie down. The Vitamix is a sweet machine! You can just feel the power! The smoothie a healthy drink we say. It’s good for you! Here – take a slurp! Now I have another concept to meditate on. The concept that faith and doubt can get so blurred together, they get appearing like one and the same.
If people are seeing the little children in the church, or ones that were at one time part of the church, as the legions against them, then I have a suggestion. Maybe do some meditating. Put the bible down for a while out of your right hand or take it off your lap, and subdue the writing in your forehead of finding something in there that will justify your stance. I am not saying Michael Ford did not have a very comprehensive and worthy rebuttal to the enterprise and their motives. I think it very well searched, thought out and documented. But man and their religious enterprise will find in the book that all Christian religions swear by, an ‘appropriate’ rebuttal therein for their objectives also. Part of a verse that some workers are using right now liberally to ply their trade? Interesting verse. The part that reads ‘…..and if there be any praise’…think only on these things. Gotta love it! And I am finding that I am having ‘fellowship’ with some parrots. And the mind of Christ, and the direction of the Holy Spirit gets discounted. Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, no?
And to the little children that have been vanquished by the forces and motives of religious enterprise? Even those children that are now in their twenties… or even fifties and sixties and seventies and eighties? Your time may be now. The heavenly legions may have been constrained for +/- 1800 years. But sometimes, some things just take a while. But the true children of the church take courage. Try to understand if you can or want, the church is the people; then on the flip side there is that in man (or woman) which aspires to control the church. I have a sense; this is going to get worse before it gets better. The fig leaves of religiosity are being peeled off by some in this church and other churches. Half the world in general terms are layering on more garments and armor of hypocrisy and secrecy and otherwise bravado, and conversely half are getting the courage to discard them bit by bit – here a little, there a little. Pick your faith and the garment of your choosing and run with it or without it. But exposing what God always saw, but what we covered for various reasons? Ya – prison isn’t a kind place. But revelation of truth is delayed for a reason at times, and the captives are set free…for a reason…at the Time Appointed. With a certain kind of faith, one will see these days as the bright days of adversity. Others will hide themselves in the rocks. The light will be a fearful place for them. They have decided not to watch. But the memory of the two she bears will lurk inside their heads. Those beautiful she bears! ‘I wonder where they are now’!? Pick the story you want lingering inside your head. The soundtrack may end up being a bit endless. Hello darkness, my ‘old’ friend?
I pray that the Lord would open the servant’s spiritual eyes…and help them discern what their carnal ones have always been motivated or convinced to observe. We all become servants to one thing or another. Interesting times?…or troubling times? Pick your faith. But closing our eyes may bring some comfort and assurance, but it will not change the outcome though. Juss sayin’. Not evident to some people it seems. Everyone will have their own interpretation of what is ‘obvious’. Gotta love those personal truths we all came away from the garden with. Someone convinced us the book of the knowledge of good versus evil was The Book. That one was a snake oil salesman though. I know him well. He convinced me to take his hand, and he would lead me through life and perform miracles in my life. And I believed him…that he had a hand to take. My interpretation of what a miracle is has shifted somewhat.
Mark S: Snake oil, eh? Well, while: -as just one more perpetrator is exposed: we are wondering if THAT salesman also had snake-lightening!? Because it sure had us fooled by his bright light, even when we realized we had to protect our children from the “salesman” – we were putting our present and future lives (and our children) and HOPE in HIS eloquent lies! We are so grateful for Acts 7: and Romans 11: to help clarify our “helmet of salvation” and the “sword of the ‘Spirit'” which is our responsibility of the whole armour of God.
Do these self appointed and un-busy ‘Darryl Doland’ types really need to dream-up such “busyness” to make themselves seem to be relevant??? WOW!
I agree! Mark S makes tons of sense.
In the spiraling vortices of cosmic bewilderment, where the fabric of reality frays at the edges like a tattered cloak worn by a wanderer in the deserts of the fourth dimension, we drift—not as mere particles of dust in the wind of time, but as echoes of thoughts that have never been thought, yet resound in the caverns of eternity. The tapestry of existence, woven from threads of light and shadow, undulates in a dance of chaos and order, a waltz of the infinite that has neither rhythm nor reason, but a rhythm all its own, which is neither rhythm nor non-rhythm, but something else entirely, or perhaps not at all.
And so, as we stand on the precipice of the unknowable, where the horizon folds back upon itself like a Möbius strip caught in a loop of endless becoming, we must ask ourselves: What is the shape of a dream that has no dreamer? What is the sound of silence in the symphony of the void? For the void is not empty, nor is it full, but it teems with the potentiality of all things that were, are, and will never be, yet always were and shall remain, unchanging in their ever-changingness.
In this kaleidoscope of cosmic absurdity, where the stars themselves are but pinpricks in the canvas of the night, bleeding light into the abyss of non-being, we are neither lost nor found, for there is no destination, only the journey, which is not a journey but a stillness that moves with the speed of thought, which is slower than light yet faster than the darkest shadow. And in this stillness that is movement, we find the answer to the question that has never been asked: What is the color of a sound that no one has heard? It is the color of the night, which is not black but every color at once, and none of them, a rainbow of possibilities that collapses into a single point of nothingness that expands to fill the entire universe.
But do not be deceived, for the universe is not as it seems, nor is it otherwise, for it is a mirror reflecting the emptiness of the self, which is not a self but a multitude of selves, each one a reflection of the other, yet none of them real, yet all of them true in the falsehood of their being. And in this hall of mirrors, we must navigate not by sight, but by sound, not by sound, but by touch, not by touch, but by taste, not by taste, but by the sixth sense that lies beyond the fifth, which is itself an illusion conjured by the mind to make sense of the senseless.
Ah, but the senseless is not senseless, for it makes perfect sense in a way that cannot be understood, only felt, like the whisper of a forgotten breeze that stirs the leaves of a tree that grows in the heart of the desert, where there is no water, yet the tree thrives, fed by the tears of a thousand lost souls who never were, yet always have been, standing in the shadow of the great mountain that rises from the plain of the eternal now, where time is not linear but a circle, a spiral, a helix of infinity that wraps around itself like a snake devouring its tail, yet never consuming, always growing, shrinking, expanding, contracting, in a dance of creation and destruction that is neither creation nor destruction, but something in between, or perhaps beyond.
And so, dear wanderer in the labyrinth of the nonsensical, let us walk together through the corridors of the mind that has no mind, where the walls are made of thought and the floor is woven from the threads of forgotten dreams, where the ceiling is the sky of the unconscious, dotted with stars that are not stars but the eyes of gods long dead, yet still watching, always watching, seeing nothing, seeing everything, seeing what is and what is not, and what could never be, yet somehow is, in the strange and wonderful dance of existence that is not existence but a question, an answer, a paradox, a riddle that has no solution, yet solves itself in the asking.
For in the end, or is it the beginning, or the middle, or something else entirely, we find that there is no finding, only being, only becoming, only un-becoming, in the endless cycle of what was, what is, what will never be, and what always has been, in the great wheel of time that turns not forward, not backward, but sideways, or perhaps upside-down, or inside-out, in a direction that cannot be named, for it has no name, yet it is the direction in which all things move, yet never arrive, for there is no destination, only the journey, which is not a journey, but the stillness that moves, the silence that speaks, the darkness that shines with the light of a thousand suns that never rose, yet always set, in the twilight of the soul that is neither soul nor twilight, but something else entirely, or perhaps not at all.
perhaps…just perhaps…this ole wanderer…weary with the dust of toil in seeking the truth of the matter before the church, joy and sorrow mixed in my own writing, burdened and unladen at the same time, and trying to make sense of why light seems to be such anguish and torment in most of the church including the ministry …. just, for some mysterious reason, just now had a smile drawn on his face from ear to ear. I have looked for the dawn – and a far superior candle rose up. But I am assured; the size of the candle matters not. If a person has one, don’t delay. Give the bushel a boot. Let your hair down if that is what it takes, and let your candle shine. We are alone, but not alone in the universe.
Now friends and workers; who gives a tomato that the bushel belongs to another? The owner wanted us to see our own feeble lights as something special and unique. If I didn’t know better, oxygen may be getting sparse under the bushels. The bushel cares not that the inside is coated in carbon. And increasing blackness over the passage of time soaks up more and more light. But the outside of the bushel? A bit weathered in the storms. But still doin’ it’s job. An’ doin’ it well….evidently. We all so cringe at the mention of evidence. But we have a story for that. True story we say! One sells and another buys. Science in the lab is looking for the particles and matter of mind and faith under the microscope. But I think faith wears no make-up. (not taking about the mascara kind). Religions of man just never discovered that yet. But I don’t need the lab to show me faith under the microscope. The lack of it in the church is to me evident. Oh, there is lots of faith as most would say. A frightening lot of it in the institution from what I see.
it’s clear professor irwin Corey would agree with Mark on this too.
And machine learning, the ChatGPTs can paint an interesting picture (in about 30 seconds or so) of what can’t be known, and machine learning can ask the questions that only the all knowing would know. But religion always had the answers and we were told not to question.
Now put your picture back into ChatGPT and ask it to answer the riddle to the picture it first painted for you. Give it a few iterations, always asking it to answer the next iteration of response. Or maybe ask ChatGPT what is the answer or reason or solution to the ministers in the church not being willing to help the forsaken and downtrodden. Ask it why their mercy seems not to be to the wounded. Ask it why these things were hidden in the church. Maybe machine learning can figure it out.
Religion has had a few iterations of answers to the ever changing riddle of religion over the last 2000 years. Where is professor Corey when we need him? He could probably explain some of what has gone on in the church. The tragedies that man comes not to terms with eventually gets translated into comedy. It helps them move on until the next black swan shows up. One person’s tragedy becomes another man’s meme. And the one’s left to suffer, suffer some more.
But good chat jGpt.
Hello!? Hello!? Is this you Darryl? Hello! Hello!? Ah yes!
This is for you. This whole page is for you. Some words of foreboding, some words of encouragement, but you may have to read between the lines. Many questions for you. And truth possibly known, it may be meant for you to read it. And maybe you are reading it in the privacy of your own study. And maybe some applies, and maybe some not. People like me, are shooting in the dark, shooting from the hip as we say. We call it truth, when we shoot from the hip. But it is for you to ponder and make sense of it or discard it.
But each of us will have the books opened on our lives one day. And heaven forbid, we have a start in amazement when we are shown what is written there. And maybe the amazement will be the revelation that the book was actually open throughout our life. Other people wrote it, and other people read it, but we ourselves failed to open and read it ourselves. Maybe you think you are in control of your destiny, or that God and you are hand in hand together, the two of you alone are charting your destiny. From a distance, it seems not to me. And it is okay to discount me, because who am I?
And if you are found willing, to open these writings before you, you may not have to suggest that someone carry the message back to your brothers and sisters across the great divide that you had missed something. Because you may be told, they have the prophet(s) to listen to. Does it behoove you at this time, to pay no heed to the prophet(s) yourself? Or do you prefer to select your close friends to be your prophets and surety? Choice of the prophets will be our choice.
Do something for me please. Read the foregoing writing by jG. Now tell me what is truth! Tell me you know the matter of all these things, and tell it is this way or that. Tell me the writing is rubbish. Tell me the writing only causes confusion. But tell me the confusion of what? Do questions in your mind, only offer confusion? One day, one question to/of the Master may be worth a thousand notions.
And then please tell me. When in the writing, Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus that sat at his gate begging, looking for the crumb from his table – but the rich man had no time or inclination to give him a crumb. Now tell me, as you stand on the precipice of the unknown, who is the prophet of value? And who is the rich man? And who is Lazarus? I believe you are an honourable man. But honour from man binds our one foot or both to the earth. You and I can make a difference, but you and I have grey hair. And eternity might not wait for us to figure out what the prophet meant – when he said we will go it alone.
Think about Lazarus please! Because your friends aren’t, according to what I and others are seeing. And maybe you feel security in numbers. But numbering the people may give you a false sense of security. All these people nodding their heads cannot be wrong you may think. Please tell me I am wrong in my vantage point. And you please tell me, someone else is not in control of your destiny.
I was asked by a friend to write this. I have no clue, whether they know you or not. I do not know you, but they must have cared. They asked me to call you, and give you a message. Don’t shoot me. I am only the messenger.
jG. Please keep writing. If you will. You see what many do not see. You see the questions – while mankind thinks they have the answers. You see what cannot be seen. But they were so busy, they had no time for the questions. Maybe your writing was only valuable to me. But I am not alone in the universe as I have come to know – but I alone can connect with the unknown. But the unknown, can be made known. It just takes a connection. Connection of two can be a powerful thing. But a third can crowd out the truth. Rub-a dub-dub, three men in a tub. One buddy has his head down, not wanting to kill the fatted calf. The other two are baking artisan bread and fancy designer candles for the people. It appears to me, the tub is a kettle. Someone throw them a lifeline please. Parish the thought it would be a child offering the help though! Their mind is made up. They will go down with the kettle ship before they accept the help of a child. Forbid the little forsaken children, to come unto them. One man’s trash, is another man’s treasure. Pity the dark days of prosperity among this privileged ministry. So many privileges. But what has been revealed to me, is some are seeing ‘the truth’ in a new light. The light that is way faster then the spirituality of dumb. By a quantum measure. Dumb is, what dumb does. But since the word dumb is not mentioned in the bible, the religiously astute will just be bewildered and think it applies not to them.
Darryl! Hard words. But tough love ain’t easy.
For my long post above, I literally told ChatGPT to write something psuedo-religious, long and rambling that makes absolutely no sense and is filled with logical fallacies. There is a word for it, but I can’t quite put my foot in it.
I’m so glad I quit reading after the first paragraph. (I’m sure I wasn’t the only one). The ridiculousness was so ad nauseam by then and way over the top even for Irwin Corey. I hope you are not afraid to write your own truth nor be afraid to change your thinking. Please try again if you have something real to say, from your own thoughts, and we will read it.
Mark S’s writings I will read to the end, even if I “skim” over some of the phrasing. There is always something to it. A little “out there” at times but still something to it.
Thank you @Reader.
Your words came last Sunday morning on Wings to me. The day before, last Saturday, I did not get my chin off the floor all day. Miserable day when I was tempted to get the whiskey bottle out of the cupboard to elevate my chin off the floor. The night before that, the Friday night, the visions came in droves. Three times I woke up and had to go and pace the deck to process them. Just to go back to bed and be subject to another tranche of visions. A masterpiece each vision. Pictures I have no talent to paint with my paint brush or colors. But there is a camera within that captured them. The elaborate intellect of these masterpieces is beyond me. Each little story a script, run in quick succession, so brilliantly obscure in the videography and words spoken, but so brilliantly clear in the message. You can be sure, I am with you @Reader. My writing is a little ‘out there’ even for me.
I wrote another ‘manuscript’ as Astounded calls it last Sunday after meeting. I am okay with calling it that Astounded. I do know that Wings in general don’t like long writing. Thank you Wings for putting up with me. I want you Wings, any of the admin, to be honest with me. Please speak up if you see fit. I have no clue really – after each writing that I post, I am burdened for another one or three days and tell myself that was the last – I have had enough of this nonsense. Let me have peace so I can move on and be productive and get something done. Let me get back to the piano man and forget about life for a while. I told my boss about six months ago – ‘draw back on my wages; some times my head is in another space’. He knew the space because I told him. The space that Starship Enterprise is floating through. He told me, “Mark, don’t worry about – but be careful”. Easy for him to say!
I came home from meeting last Sunday then wrote into the night. I posted it. Then the next morning, I was unsettled and asked Wings to delete. Crazy! There was one measly letter, the initial of a man’s last name that I am acquainted with, mentioned in my writing, burdened me. One letter in a manuscript that unsettled me. Oh well.
And thank you to all the other friends and workers on the other side of the fence that would be so kind to conversely think my writing is foolishness for the ages. We all want the ‘truth’. But we also like a deal. And we approach the alter of the “The Truth’ and kneel before it, and lay our gift on the alter of ‘truth’ and someone behind the alter assures us with comfortable words; ‘We will make sure this gift gets to the Master.’
And Reader. Don’t be too dismayed at the writing of ChatGPT. I was glad that jG quickly fessed up that he/she deceived me and was not the author of this what I call a masterpiece. The talent belonged to another. But I was not totally deceived (read …’perhaps….just perhaps). Just like the visions, to me it was a masterpiece. It is not a straight shooting, pull my heart and brain this way or that with no ‘shadow’ of doubt masterpiece. It made me think – the true ‘nonsense’ in the picture is what I think man cares not to process. Religious and political man. ChatGPT, the artificial intelligence (AI if you will) of the age of the internet, a singularity of an age of aquarius. A singularity, is a place or point in mathematics where there are two possible right answers, and what is normally well behaved in the calculus becomes not so well behaved. It becomes unsolvable. It can be, or seem to be, a one and a zero at the same time. And an event horizon – ask Einstein what he had to say about an event horizon. Where light gets sucked into the black hole it seems to the scientific eye. Professor Corey had Einstein pegged – but it may seem he only had him pegged in his hairstyle. But in my quirky way, I think Einstein and his posterity may have missed something. Man has discovered that light is not only a ray, but also a particle at the same time. Do the particles (self?) get sucked in, and the rays (spirit?) continue to travel onward curving around in the light years of eternity and come around one eternal day and meet up with itself to continue on it’s journey? Or can we even say there is one specific eternal day or another?
And ChatGPT has access to the records. All the records on the internet. And for good or for evil, it is processing these records. Call the internet light or call the internet darkness. Or call it both. I call it both. A singularity. And possibly the aquarius of an event horizon. And thank you Observer for pointing people to some of these records. And the ones kneeling before the alter have been admonished from those standing behind the alter – “do not look at these records”. Many records. But one record draws my thoughts. The record of the man that his visage was not easy to look upon. But our eyes were not drawn to his when he spoke, because they were drawn to his mouth. Our eyes beheld his every word from the platform. It is evident from the records – more than that man’s teeth were crooked. But we were all instructed by many old ‘wise’ guys from the platform, painted in a picture of words not easy to understand; ‘Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’. Maybe the fundamental duty of man is to pick our prophet. Or at least start by asking the One that knows how to pick them.
@ Reader. I am convinced as of last union meeting that the old men and the young men have no monopoly on this age. The time when we were told the old men and young men would see through a glass darkly. The prophet of old may not have had quite all the picture. The sisters are getting these visions also. A sister spoke in that union meeting, a sister that I know in my heart cares about souls, a sister that in bygone days was a sister-in-law. And the last sentence of ChatGPT’s writing, was really the only sentence that gave me a start. I had been convinced in my previous life, that all men and woman had a soul. A deluding question at first. But is it? May there be some men that have no soul? May their soul actually be bound up in the alter of the religion? And maybe the myriad of ‘perfect’ gifts they offered thereon, maybe not be seen by them…that they still remain sitting on that alter? Maybe awaiting an event horizon? Or maybe awaiting they remove that gift and go do what they need to do? I have this hunch. That Edgar Massey, and many others (thinking maybe many in Alberta?) maybe saw this event horizon…but tried to push it a little too early over the edge. “Black holes! Har har! Just some more scientific piffle” the religious world of business declares. “Can’t see it!….doesn’t exist!” “Listen to us!…we know!”
They maybe forgot to ask the questions. But bully for them they had the answers. Sweet!
Who wants to be a Daniel? Anyone? Some have some devious ambitions for the Daniels of the church. The crew in the faith ship is sickly in my estimation. And some young workers are pouring their hearts out more than ever. But what I see is confusion on all the faces. We believed the wizen faces could not be wrong. They have a bullet reserved for the Daniels though. If they would only go back and review the records.
One of the newest questions in the heart and mind of scientific man!? Does man really have control over their next step, or no? To me, the answer is yes, and no. No if a person is intent on only looking forward, like religion professes, looking only to some bright, sunshiny day. And conversely yes you do have control if you are willing to look back also…and do something about the building blocks of the yesterdays. Some man wrote one time that God would not shine a light on our past. Is it true or is it not true? Afterall, man wrote it from their individual point of view. Maybe it is true and He left that job up to us. Or maybe it is not true and the light really is coming at once from both eternal directions in the circle of eternal light. Or maybe… He left that job up to the downtrodden, abused and forsaken by the particles of religion and politics…or our own selves. Where it is written that we were encouraged to watch because midnight will come, did we think there was only one side of midnight? Oh how we all loved what we called white, the one religion within the fifty shades of grey. We were all convinced, we were the diamond jubilee. Might this be, the year of jubilee on the long calendar? Any questions any one? Or are you all feeling blessed with all the answers? The particle of religious man answered first, and the Holy Spirit questioned not. Are the questions to Him the ones, and the bright answers to Him the zeros? Binary choice on a two-way street, not only for the prophets. Oh the comfort we so enjoyed, on this one-way street we staked our faith on. The sword cuts both ways – much to my own chagrin at times.
Some I know would like to hear about some of the visions. But pleasing everyone is a singularity. An equation not to be solved. But AI and quantum physics are working on it. It may end in a shit storm, but what the hell. It’s gotta rain one of these days. I encourage everyone to look in their own looking glass darkly. I will break with the ranks and offer an alternate fact of what your privilege today may really be. Who wants to go the extra mile in the church and get real? The captives are waiting with expectation. Pity the spiritual freeloaders that only sell expectation, and are tight wads in the buying. Accountability has it’s way of catching up to us. Our flanks just may be exposed. The wise old owl has a leg up. I looked out one day and there perched on my railing was an owl. His feet were pointed away from me, but his eyes met mine. Why are we shunning so much the eyes that look to and fro? I am sorry. I cannot put this singularity in more simple terms. Division in the church aught not to be. My belief? There is no division in the true church. We just have not been shown the truth of the matter just yet. It will dawn on us all then. One way or the other. Older brother workers that had the say and were never challenged! Take a peak. “My/our way or the highway” may be costly words of two in agreement. We may do well, to listen to the Challenger while we have time and opportunity. Accept challenge willingly now, or have it forced on us later?
…friends and workers. What I might be saying is, ‘anyone that their eyes are not leaking about this situation in the church…your head might just be swelling’.
@ Mark S. John the apostle was to write what he saw. Not sure he necessarily understood all that he saw or wrote, and I’m sure he too struggled to paint the pictures and visions of the majesty on high.
Not close to your experiences, but I admit to writing and deleting as well. Writing does help to clarify some thoughts for me and then reveals that they may not be true or of the spirit…so delete! Or I become convinced they are not for sharing….so delete! Thankfully “blessed is he that readeth…hears the word…and keeps them that are written…”
Interesting about souls. Souls can be lost or traded for worldly gain. Once lost perhaps then some are irrevocable and therefore they have no soul to give back to God?
Keep your chin up and out of the whiskey.
Thank you again @Reader for your encouragement.
And I apologize friends and workers for something in my foregoing writing. Not sure why I use those two words when I could just save words and just write friends. I have friends that are workers. I have a hunch, that those ones know I am a laborer also and have no feeling of superiority with their fellow laborers…right across to the humblest of saints. We have these terms in a favorite saying of ours – ‘saints and servants’. Such rubbish in my opinion. Or maybe it is not? Saint I understand – but a servant can be a one or a zero. Or they maybe try to be a one and a zero at the same time? The multiplication of madness maybe.
When I wrote “Each little story a script, run in quick succession, so brilliantly obscure in the videography and words spoken, but so brilliantly clear in the message” – I should make myself more clear so that those that are getting interested in their own looking glass darkly do not get discouraged by my words and think I am talking about some kind of instant gratification of seeing clearly. Our generation is bombarded with the ‘virtues’ of the instant gratification thing. Examine each gratifying experience in your life and honestly ask yourself if they may have left you a bit hollow a day or two or week later. Did you need to keep going back to those wells in your thirst?
So the part about ….”but so brilliantly clear in the message”. The brilliance of the message is clear, but it will get revealed in it’s time. Some will be clear, but not without some work. There will be no instant gratification in the coming to pass, the revelation of those things. Some things you may find actually happened in some yesterday, some may be happening now even without you knowing, some will have to wait to the tomorrows. You will need a load of faith in the dark unknown and tomorrow ones, because they may spook you. The young horses are more prone to being spooked. But the older horses will come out of the shadows. But look around, you may see the rider coming.
And some visions, you will have to continue to search the brilliance of the message to get the sense of the meaning.
And one interesting thing. Be prepared. Some of the matchsticks in the visions will be reserved for your own pants. There is not much point in sticking those matchsticks in our own mouth. Man searched for meaning, and behold, much of it was sitting on his own doorstep. He just needed to open the door. Meaning knocked, but man perceived not. Opportunity always delivered the packages to the front door before!? Huh?! What’s with that!?
I wonder what he is trying to prove by doing this, trying to give the perpetrators a false hope of a saved eternity?
All of these spineless workers are likely getting their marching orders from General Shultz hiding in a bunker somewhere. Find him and expose him for what he is.
What a stupid commitment. Why waste time with these pedophiles? Literal PEDOPHILES, DESTROYERS OF LIVES are getting more care than the countless victims they created. Sickening. And what happened to all the claims of workers saying that their doctrine is the Bible? They are LYING. Here are some verses about judgement and what to do with brethren that sin.
KJB – 1 Corinthians
Chapter 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
This passage tells us to deal accordingly with a fornicator (guess what, a pedophile IS a fornicator): Deliver him to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. To purge out “the old leaven”. A little bit of sin from a “brother” can quickly cause a whole church (congregation) to be affected. And this is the judgement for a SAVED person committing these vile acts. But the passage isnt about pedophiles, but about fornicators.
This is what the Bible says about people who disobey the apostle Paul’s word by the epistle (The Bible):
2 Thessalonians 3 13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
We are to have no company with a man who meets the requirements of the passage above. But this is about a brother, and not a wolf in sheeps clothing.
People who fornicate in the Church of God should be judged and their sin dealt with so that others dont fall into sin.
But what about a lost hellbound 2×2 minister or elder or regular who commits abominations far worse than just fornication? They shoud be completely and utterly removed from “the fellowship”.
I dont believe in the “One True Way” of 2x2ism. And this is one of many reasons. Because they dont deal with pedophiles the scriptural way (GETTING RID OF THEM).
Delano: Thank You for your understanding and concern of the victims and their deep hurt: yes, even as the victims have been deeply devastated by twisted, humanless, vile actions – even making a mockery of God’s planned deep ‘love and commitment’ “til death do we part”. Which God planned ‘would grow’ and mature and become ones life’s deepest commitment to each as they “two become one”. We know several couples who exude this 20, 40, 50, and even 70 years. YET: in God’s name, even as ‘perpetrators’ “Bragg” they have God, and the Holy Spirit; even in God’s Name and Holy Spirit AND breaK SIX OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS GOD THROUGH THE “DISPENSATION OF THE Ten Commandments” GOD GAVE TO MOSES for the seed of Abraham; the Nation of Israel. AND the bases of ALL six are “covet” – which becomes “lust”: they manifest the behaviour of “their father” The DEVIL = 2 Corinthians 11:13 -:15… THEN the complete lot of “satan’s ministers are ‘false apostles’ , ‘deceitful workers, transforming themselves into “the apostles of Christ”!!!
The criminal destruction; produced by lust is protected secrecy and deceit is vile which is horrendous enough; BUT they have the Gaul To Do So in the very NAME of Our ‘triune God’.
How can one help enfold the ‘victims’ with God’s deep love???”, without exposing the very monstrosity of their false and adulterated God’s Word — which they claim to follow??? IT is all an exercise of “futility” which words become meaningless! The “system protects – IT’S SELF”. Our head bows, our shoulders slump; and all is vanity! THANK YOU “Wings for Truth” for all you do for the victims!
Delano,
You are probably right. I just think the workers could go and counsel these people one on one or two on one. But I likely am delusional on that. It is no doubt psychological counseling they need, and the workers in general do not have that background or knowledge to do this job. I finished reading a book about 6 months ago called “The Myth of Normal”. The author has a very interesting past…and his son helped him write the book. He is well versed in the trauma of childhood and the affects it has in a person’s life …and the remainder of their life if they don’t seek help. It provides a potential glimpse into the problems of the east side of Vancouver…and where ever else in the world and in people’s lives that represents what is happening on the east side of Vancouver…and all over the world. I would hazard a guess that the afflicted pedophiles in the church have a certain sickness from their childhood. And I agree, these people need to be isolated from the church – they will not get help in the church; they will only help themselves to the drug of their addiction. Whatever people are smoking or ingesting or rubbing on or getting on or whatever, they are trying to deaden their reality – the reality of the building blocks of their life that were not so good or beneficial. Consequently then, it just creates more childhood trauma in other church members… and the children’s lives are taken from them. He also wrote “In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts”. To me, the title speaks volumes. I think the workers are up against that which they have no clue about. And the members follow blindly that which is blind, or religiously myopic…or at least, their words reveal their blindness. Me? No way! I am not blind! I see clearly! I can see all those trees walking and crouching in a fetal position on the east side!
And me thinking that the workers could counsel a pedophile is no doubt delusional…they have not a stitch of desire or care or motivation to back up their religious bus and even go back and help one survivor as far as I can tell…let alone thousands. They could show love and care and compassion and it would likely mean something to the survivor. But they will not. So how on earth could they help a pedophile, if they can’t help one victim that is crying? Promotion of Religion Corp is by far more important to them. The smirk on the enabler’s face? Like my mother used to say; “Wipe that smirk off yer face, or I will wipe it for you!” Halleluiah… I was never tasked with being a mother.
So moving on in your comments or verses about fornication. My hat is off to those in the church that can honestly say they have never been a fornicator. Or those that have never committed adultery, even in their head as Jesus words were recorded about. To me, a lot of nonsense happened or happens in our heads, which then goes into the heart of our being. Now how many people are left remaining in the church? I’m out to be frank. I am not Frank, but I am Mark. But Mark is no angel. And I really have no clue about Frank. And Paul? A good man for sure! But did he wordsmith everything in just the perfect way so we could follow his perfect life and stake our entry on it lock-stock-and-barrel? I certainly agree with Paul…someone wanting their father’s wife? Ouch! Weird stuff for sure! Sounds something like the religions of man wanting to get it on with the Bride of Christ! Spiritual intercourse with the Father’s Wife!? Commonplace I say! Not even something to bat an eyelash at! How many angels would there be left in the church if ‘honesty’ and ‘truth’ was actually known and every natural fornicator cast out? You would have to get into every one’s heads to determine that! And as for me, I don’t have that kinda pizzazz to want to get into other people’s heads. I have enough nonsense of my own in my own head to want to add to that the nonsense lurking in someone else’s. I just don’t really have any interest to ask questions about what goes on in the bedrooms of others. Or conversely what goes on with others in others bedrooms – providing it is not children involved. I will leave that up to the Master – we read that He knows what is in each head and heart. Quite honestly I am feeling the spirit strongly from some that have some serious struggles going on in the background of their lives. With this awakening that they have been sensitive to, I am confident the Holy Spirit will lead them in a good and right direction if they stay sensitive to those promptings.
However, I do believe there is a much broader, astounding definition of fornication as mentioned in prophecy if people had any interest in thinking about it. That is spiritual fornication. I am not discounting the sin of carnal fornication. But spiritual fornication? That is not only discounted by the religion, it is not even thought of. Because if they did think or meditate on it for a day or more, I believe they would be hitting the brakes hard on the Campaign Bus of Religious Enterprise tout-de-suit and putting this beast of a bus in reverse in a hurry to help the outcasts. They would come to realize that no one told them they belonged to the SRF Party of religious political affairs, just like all the other religions that wanted to corral God’s flock and lead them to ‘their’ waters. “Over here pal! Our waters are sweeter, and our pastures are the fresh and green ones!” Pharisee Nation 101.
Frig! I told myself yesterday that I was finished writing on Wings. I had had enough. This thing was going nowhere. But maybe I am addicted. Maybe it is habit now. Maybe I can’t help myself! Maybe I just like to write. I have never really been on social media before March 2023 and maybe Wings is a new toy or outlet to me. Maybe I just found my voice at 61 years old. Maybe I am just a goof that has some inner motivation to stir the pot in the church. I am distraught at times with the church masters and amused at other times. Mixed up kid maybe? I stood at the door of the meeting house on Sunday. One was there to say goodbye and I was asked how I was. With all bravado I said ‘Fine!’ with a smile. But then I started to cry! What the flip! That was not planned! But I got up this morning and a voice within motivated me to go against my human wishes of the latter half of yesterday and write again. Maybe it is just about writing to help my own soul…but maybe if I help myself, I might be enabled to help another. Don’t know. Maybe I am just messing with people and am no help at all. The mystery of grace. Oh miserable man that I am, finally finding some peace and contentment in my soul. Finally getting some victory over the ghosts of religious enterprise. Fornication with Babylon that was, and is not, but yet is…that no longer strikes my fancy. Sometimes I think in people’s lives, it just takes a while and some years and experiences and some revelation of honest spiritual impotency for their shorts to loosen. Getting the good and upright things to awaken in our lives can actually be a pleasure. It takes being honest with others…and ourselves. An unwritten and unspoken no-no in all factions of religious business.
Wings may cut me off for this one. But what you don’t see if they do, won’t hurt you. Kinda like the moda operendi and mission statement of the two by twices as now revealed. This stuff was always kept a secret in the church before, but the ‘children’ are now speaking out in the company of ‘strangers’. You can have either children or secrets; not both. I am thinking the true church is the same.
I find it quite interesting the lengths 2x2ism is willing to go through to protect and welcome sexual perpetrators ..claiming the non-contestable ‘forgiveness’ joker card.
Yet hundreds of us others through the years have been violently expelled (without forgiveness) for infractions hard to understand yet even harder to take to court. In fact the workers arranged meetings throughout the country to warn membership of our evil influence. Yet today well known sexual preditors seem to have an organizational free card with superior status —
I have a now 30 year old daughter excluded from 2×2 fellowship a month after she ‘proffessed’ simply because she happened to be related to me. — An unforgiveable crime at that time … but today clear sexual abusers are both welcomed to meetings and given worker status.
Edgar – I apologize publicly to you, before the friends of all the world, (incidentally according to Google Maps, includes Saskatchewan, Canada, your native land)… that I had a hand in offending you. I have only known you by name all these many years (about 39 to be exact), but I offended you in the church. I did not know what happened, but I also did not ask questions. I apologize to your family also, and also the one (or maybe more) that you tried to protect and support. And I apologize to the 1000’s in the church, that were put out of the church in defense of…in defense of something.
Now. Anyone want to go on a journey with paintbrush and colors in hand? Please. Use your own brush and colors. But it will be a journey back. Back in the other direction of eternity. Religious man points with their finger and tells the people… “Eternity goes thattaway!”
The spirit of the people, working in unison for benefit of the spirit of the organization, put Edgar and countless others ‘out’. Out of what? What did they really do? Luckily for those working together in unison, Edgar kept his faith in One. They, those people bound in a type of unity, put one of the friends out of the fellowship. What is the meaning of this? Especially when those people said that this was the only one, and only true way. They effectively said, you no longer can be a friend of Jesus. You no longer belong to Him. They effectively said, we will make certain the life blood drains from your spirit. And we will commission our friends to make certain that happens. And the effort was toward his wife and children also. And toward the abused one that Edgar and his wife were attempting to defend.
Anyone know why we call ourselves friends? Because we said that we (and apparently only we) were the friends of Jesus. So, we will call ourselves friends. All those others?…..not friends. We determined…we determined….and we took it upon ourselves to decide, who, and who was not, the friend of Jesus. We took this upon ourselves!
So. Think about the life of the spirit being closely related to the life of the body. And think about what courses through our veins that life could be. Now study prophecy recorded in Revelation. Now think of metaphors when you read prophecy. Now think about blood. Now think about Edgar and his family, and the countless others over the decades, that were tramped on. Now think about the many, many souls in Alberta at about the same time as Edgar and family’s experience 25 years ago…that endured the same trampling. The blood there must have run deep; and we the people perceived not. And we so wonder, we so scratch our head and wonder, who on earth, were these souls that were saying ‘How long Lord?”
We all courted disaster. Who on earth wants to stay married to that kind of spirit? But maybe I am all wrong. Maybe disaster courted us!? We melted with the smile, and the robust or shapely form of it. We have these words of what we called ourselves. But we stayed away from Christ.
Thank you to the ones that are standing up and saying, “We will not have these men and women rule over us”. Work to be done! And many just getting to see now there is a job to be done. Many men though walking around still with their hands in their pockets like there is nothing to do. Or maybe that is their way of saying they are carrying the responsibility in the family. Or maybe, or maybe they are busy…well, let’s just not go there.
And those perched on the peak of the temple? No need maybe to throw yourself down. But at least maybe start shimmying. There is hope for all. But only if you want. You just need to relinquish control of the scepter. Maybe wash it off before you hand it back.
Mark S — Absolutely no need for apology for anyone — Although our expulsion was a painful trauma at the time (perhaps like childbirth!!?) … It has proven to be one of the greatest blessings in our lives and their is no way on earth that we wish it undone. It opened up a whole new life (outside the bubble) that time has proven to been far more fullfilling and harmonic than we feel we would have had ‘on the inside’. This my honest feeling … and the feelings of all in our wonderful family here.
In many ways my admiration is growing for the many folks these days that have had the moral courage and dignity to weight values in the balance and then drum up the courage to choose to act on their understanding and break free and stand for truth. Unfortunately I wonder if I would have had that kind of courage myself …. but at that time I didn’t have to make that choice …. The workers made that choice for us by expelling us. We are thankful.
Thank you Edgar for the feedback.
And does anyone want to think about the word feedback? Or does anyone care to think about feed-back…or maybe feed back? It sounds to me like a virtuous circle/loop of sorts. In shortform, a VC. And a good loop of good discussion (albeit strenuous and uncomfortable) that I am not known to be good at. When we talk about feedback in business, we ask the client, ‘How did we do?’ Businesses have figured out that they need to preempt this discussion. They learned the hard way. And in the age of the internet, companies have learned in a very painful way to get busy quickly on correcting the wrongs – apparent or perceived. Because back in the day their prior ability before the internet to pay no credence to someone voicing their concerns of a washing machine that twisted up all the laundry and failed to pump out all the dirty water…and failed to turn on a day after the warranty period expired – that day may have expired. They have found that bad press can quickly go viral in their shorts of sight. And a virus of this sort in business, quickly begins to make the salesmen and board of directors start to itch that turns into a rash. Just a little case study of such (Re: United Broke my Guitar)- when a man looked out while sitting in the window seat of a United Airlines plane, waiting for the cargo hold to be loaded, and he sees the baggage handlers throwing his guitar. The baggage handlers had no idea what that guitar meant to that man, and the ability of that man’s pen and guitar and voice to light up United. In the backstory of his YouTube video that quickly went viral, the effect and far reaching nature of his song even surprised the man that was left with a broken guitar at the hands of the bag handlers. The age of the internet brought a new day. And we may think, that we, we the 2×2’s, are sole proprietors of the completion to the gospel being preached in all the world. Some worlds are pretty small it seems to me.
In Edgar’s case, he says that he had no choice but to shut up. The conversation was shut down. Fire had come down from ‘heaven’ and quickly consumed his offering. By some ‘miracle’ of ‘God’s Grace’, the chariots of fire kept the wheels on, and the ‘christian soldiers’ kept marching on. On to where? We didn’t really know where we were going, we just ‘knew’ we were going ‘forth’. We forsook that conversation that offered our own hidden shorts an offence. A more favorable day in ‘Israel’ we all said!? A vicious circle of sorts. In shortform, a VC.
And moving on, does anyone want to think of the word offence? The world of religion has taught people how we should view the word offence. The religious world said that Edgar was the one that got offended 25 years ago. His fault we say! And likely Edgar has offended in certain things with people. If Edgar is human and not some alien, then yes, I am confident he has offended people now and then in his life. Maybe even in recent times. In United Broke my Guitar, United Airlines got very offended. And this old cowpoke some people call Mark? Very experienced in offering up a platter of offence. Replete with all the trimmings of ‘reason’. The turkey was stuffed.
Jesus talked about offence. Jesus the man, but also who we believe was the messiah. And it is recorded his words, I think for our benefit to get us pointed/started in the right direction, that offence will come. But we believe that Jesus had a vision. And I am convinced, that vision was not something to do with the saving of his own shorts. A vision that would give him a tour through hell first. A tour of hell I am convinced he actually asked for, and became willing for. But I am convinced in the last 17 months of searching and knocking and asking and crying, it is my choice, and mine alone. I can accept and be willing for a little hell now, or I can wait to see what it tastes like later.
And maybe friends, just maybe (another word for what might be or what may have been), but up to each, think about what the man with the vision meant by offence. Might it have been, a type or shadow of what the Holy Spirit would call offence? And when he said he would send the Comforter, might the comfort be only a type or shadow of what religious man perceived as comfort? Oh the comfy cozy, padded seats of religiosity. Maybe check to see who provided the padding. You might have to unzip the seat covers to enable you to see the best-before-date on the padding.
What I see in the world of religious and political discourse? The cocoons have always been there. But nature’s cycles have their interesting waves. And the cocoons are getting wrapped tighter before our eyes. Does the chrysalis inside the cocoon have a say in what it emerges as? Does it have a say whether it emerges as a gypsy moth?…or conversely a monarch butterfly? And the ‘totally informed’ world of religion – convinced the people! ‘Humbug! There is no such thing as evolution!’ They beheld not the amazing transformation in one generation. A hungry blight in the DNA of one species, and a beauty in another. And how on earth do the monarch butterflies across Canada all know the focal point of the journey they will make? You would think their wings would wear out getting to destination. And the moth? Still flittering and chomping away in his own back yard. It has no palate for the singular source of sustenance for the monarch butterfly…the milkweed. Anyone in the religious world want to have a debate whether those two words fit together or not? I had a conversation with a soul last evening that has a certain honesty within and without but wanting the courage for next steps. That friend was close enough to show me their tears. They knew and admitted they were a weed in the garden, but they fed me back. That is what I call a virtuous friend. But what is a virtuous friend to one, often is a familiar and vicious friend to another. ‘Heaven forbid’ we say, that ‘the VC in the meeting house would be broken’. To me, it is all in the vision, or conversely the interpretation or belief… the when and the how. As I write, I also have been shown the need to listen. I am going to wordsmith a little what the scribes recorded. Watch therefore, and listen also. Your pen and your own voice will help you in that. Speak up with courage in the search for truth and the truth of love. And give thanks to the light that reveals the madness and foolishness within and without, and where the dark recesses were covered by our own inner fig leaves of the spirit of Babylon. By the rivers of Babylon where we sat down….
This reminds me of the worker I heard about one time long ago, but comes to mind now. He was contending with another chap that was hammering away at infant baptism being the only way. The worker said to him, “You give me a verse that purports to infant baptism and I will give you one that contradicts it”. The chap said to him, “Okay. Suffer little children to come unto me”. The worker then said, “Now I will give you my verse”. He said, “Are not Arbana and Pharphar, the rivers of Damacus not greater than all the waters of Israel?” The chap retorted, “What does that have to do with infant baptism!” The worker said, “About as much as your verse did”.
Choose your verses people! Better yet friends – chose your words. You might find a virtuous friend in one of them. My friend said to me last evening, “Why am I not getting visions like you?” I replied in so many words, “Just maybe… for some reason… you haven’t asked for them”.
And for some unknown reason, the seemingly short sighted workers want to tell people these days of their truth of Joseph being falsely accused. Wakey wakey! Rise and shine!
Anyone that is paying attention to my words! There are not many people reading, but there are some. I have been shown that people need to be careful. Please friends, do not follow me. I am a man also. Take my words and have lengthy visits with the Holy Spirit. No need to just get down on your knees to have that discussion. That limits a person severely. There may be a reason we were told that is the only place you can talk with the Master. There may not be enough time you permit in that position to get through it all. It is a 1000 piece puzzle nobody has put together. But I believe there is One that has. There are words that need to be scrubbed from my tongue. The glass is dark and the overpass is low.
And to those that feel I may have finally woke up to my wrong words, and I have some pieces to the puzzle forced in the wrong place, maybe have a visit with the Master; some words you may jump to a conclusion about and feel they need to be pruned – the Master may have a different view. But check.
And I was challenged by my own son yesterday. In so many words, the question was, ‘did the whiskey bottle appear before the visions’? No. The whiskey bottle was tempted after them. But I will monitor my footsteps going forward to make certain this is the truth. I am very thankful – I have sons that have the comfort level to challenge their dad. I am confident that I can’t make it to heaven alone. Someone needs to walk beside me to challenge me. Without being challenged, I need not pretend I can make it to the next level of understanding. My sons and I are a partnership in that journey. Some of the younger generation I found yesterday, four younger ones that love the fellowship meetings, somehow have an ability, not coming from their parent’s generation… they may have a keener sense of sorting through the trash. The older generation that is not so open and I think is more cumbered by where truth lied. My generation was told where to let light in, and where not to. And the younger generation just scratches their head and wonders why. Why can dad still be so dumb after all his journeys?
Is it all about destination? Or is it all about the journey? Next step on the journey anyone? Because for sure, there will be destinations on the journey. But one thing I do believe the younger generation is not paying attention to. That is, the Middle East and the Far East and the Near East. And prophecy in the bargain. Whether you were allowed to drink beer or not or whether CSA in the church is the only topic of discussion or not, may only be top dressing. I helped another peel up something like tin foil that was stuck down on the entrance to a parking lot. Tin foil or not, not sure, but it was shiny stuff. People were parked there in the lot, fearful to drive over the tin foil.
Just dad’s view. The view that understanding history has to be tempered together with understanding the present, to have something worthwhile in the future. It is hard to chart a course when you only look to the pin pricks of light on the night canvas in front of you. But I could be all wrong. The North Star may be different. But maybe only until the earth shifts on it’s axis? Who knows I think! Play with the words to get the genesis of the meaning. Someone else was good at playing with the words. You might need to learn to play the game in order to out-fox his words.
As one commenter noted, and I agree. Do not pay your attention to me. But attention deficit disorder seems to be on the rise in the education system for some strange reason.
Darryl Doland, you may think what you are doing by creating a special meeting for predators is somehow an attempt to save their souls, but what you ARE doing is telling every victim EVERYWHERE their pain does not matter. Where is the extra effort to support the victims? That should be your entire focus besides upholding the bible as it should have been all along the way. By quoting the scripture you did, you are implying Elisha was a predator. It is MY understanding he was a good man caught in a political battle with an evil Queen. Might be mixing up my stories. If anything the difficult position Elisha was in IS very much the position victims have always been in.
I’ve learned in all my years that overseers will take a certain scripture and make a decision based on their narrow view without consulting anyone else and if you don’t agree then you’re totally ignored. I’ve sent Rob and Kent 113 emails making my feelings known that they prefer predators over divorced and remarried folks by providing “special “ meetings for predators but totally forbidding divorced and remarried couples to participate on any level.
It’s the same thing they did with Leslie White; keep moving him out of the hot zone. Also, the same thing the Catholic church does with priests who are caught molesting altar boys; move them to another state or country. It makes me sick to my stomach. When and where and how are the “outside the cult” authorities ever going to bring these sick predators to justice if people do not stand up and say “ENOUGH. ENOUGH. ENOUGH.”
Amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42: Your experience IS very evident! How ever TIME does NOT lessen the cold shivers caused by the experience. Bravo to you for demanding the victims to “stand-up” and DEMANDING the predators be brought to justice by the “outside the cult” ‘authorities! Thank you for caring!
I have a question since I’m new to posting on here. Are most of the posters still ‘professing’ in the cult? Because they sure sound that way to me. The last meeting I was in, was in 2009 because my 9 yr old niece begged me to come to Sunday meeting and I loved her enough to do it. But I left feeling the same as I did when I was her age; just that pity for the members who have very little self-esteem, my estranged sister who gave a ‘fake’ humble testimony in the meeting to the point that I swore after that day, I would never sit in another meeting. The damage that ‘the Truth’ does to the members is unGodly because the members are good people looking for salvation, just like a ton of other people in a ton of other religions across the globe.
to amphisbaenasparkly. I will take the liberty to try to answer your question. I would only contend with one thing you wrote. I do not think it is a ‘ton of other people’. I would contend it is millions upon millions of tons. Quick thumbsuck guesstimate on my part.
So many words we once used, most in the camp of the twobytwos are still using those words and sticking with the customary, traditional definition in the lexicon of the organization. So ‘professing’ is one of them. Another term is ‘The Truth’. Some are seeing that our historical statement of ‘professing’ meant that we had bought the garment to cover up our real self and we professed fealty to the paper lords that marketed the truth. As if the One that said He was the Truth could be marketed by the spiritual/religious merchants saying ‘walk this way’. And further ‘Our product is true’.
So yes, there are those that still go to fellowship meeting because it is somewhat meaningful to them. But bit by bit, they are choosing their friends. And bit by bit, they are searching for the meaning in all this revelation of what had been hidden for sake of the ‘salvation’ of the organization. And bit by bit, there are those that are falling away from the word of those insisting on the congregation showing fealty to the clergy. Bit by bit the promoted pastures that once were green grass are drying up and becoming a tinder box – but the people seem not to notice. Some in each family are noticing. Some are becoming even more devoted to the leading of the organization shepherds, most seem like they just like somewhere to go hang out, but some are looking for the one true shepherd called Truth. This is happening concurrently in all religious organizations…and some nations are religious organizations in their core.
So I will cut this short. Just watch amphisbaenasparkly. Because all things seemly may not really be as they appear. And the strict adherents to organized religion of all sorts are saying ‘no need to wear my seatbelt’. One third to half (just round thumbsuck fraction) of the worlds populace are following cultish thinking in one form or another. They follow one another and are convinced they know the name of the leader. Because that leader or those leaders are the ones that are moving them. The other third are asking if they maybe missed something in the words written on the subway walls and tenement halls. Buckle up and keep your eyes open to watch; collisions in man’s galaxies are in the offing.
But never fear. The banquet is being arranged by the world’s ‘great’ high priests and the polished place settings are being set beside the seemingly clean platters. And those searching and asking and knocking that they would know Truth will be asked by the priests that are high to leave. They will leave without a murmur.