Dear [redacted] and [redacted], July 3, 2024
Thank you for your clarification. There isn’t much to say except our hearts are deeply saddened by your decision to not have anything to do with God’s established ministry. We would like you to know we have appreciated your open home and hospitality to the church through the years. Your help and care toward the elderly folk has been valued too. You said you did not feel moved to make this public. After much prayer and consideration and consulting Doyle and Tom, we feel it is only right & fair for each in your meeting to know about your decision. Therefore, we will send out an email for each in your meeting, notifying them of your stand, and offer the choice to remain in your meeting or move to one that is under the purview of the ministry. This effectively gives each the opportunity to declare whether they believe in a God-established ministry or not. We will include all the other elders in this communication, as it could affect them too.
We do have a question for you, that someone brought up: Who appointed you as an elder and put a meeting in your home? Was it the ministry? The ministry was established from heaven even before the fellowship was, and it is something that we cannot change. We absolutely know there are individuals that horribly abused place and power in the ministry and in the fellowship, and have caused great harm. For that we are terribly sorry. We cannot remove the ministry nor fellowship that God established, but rather the individuals that commit horrible abuse. You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry. God will never lead two people in two different directions by his Holy Spirit.
We personally have been in contact with trauma therapists, lawyers, local and federal authorities, and are very aware of what is being done. We are glad for their guidance in going forward.
We will keep you in our hearts and prayers,
Doyle, Tom
Tammy, Heidi & Alexis
WINGS Note: This letter was not provided to WINGS by the elder.
For the workers’ letter to meeting attendees, see https://wingsfortruth.info/2024/07/04/letter-to-montana-meeting/
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This comment is similar to the comment I posted a few minutes ago for the other related letter (Letter to Montana meeting):
Quoting from the letter above: “The ministry was established from heaven even before fellowship and it is something that we cannot change. … You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry.”
I have been attending meetings since birth (>50 years ago) and reading the Bible for decades, and I can’t recall ever being convicted of this idea. Is it a widely held belief in our fellowship? Is there some scripture that is used to support it? (Some references that come to my own mind are in my other comment.)
Does anyone have other insights on this?
Exclusivity. The root of the entire problem.
I agree with you, Observer.
From what we read in the Bible, the first place fellowship is written about is in the Garden of Eden, between God, Adam and Eve, (although the word fellowship is not actually used, it is clear from the context) whereas ministry, as in those who were instructed to tell the good news of the Gospel story, is first introduced in the New Testament.
I don’t see any direct link or dependancy between ministry and fellowship, other than true fellowship and true ministry should both be guided by God’s Spirit. This is required for true fellowship with one another, whether one is in the ministry or not.
Yes, helpful points, thank you.
The epistle of John puts it this way (1 John 1: 5-7): “God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, …”
If I understand this right, what enables any of us to have fellowship is that as individuals we choose to walk in the light (of Jesus and God, i.e. we endeavor to live according to the light that Jesus brought into the world which is also described so beautifully in the first verses of the first chapter of John’s gospel), rather than belonging to a particular group or following a specific ministers.
Amen! You’ve got that correct. Jesus is our Savior, not a church group like they believe. (I spent the first 20 years of my life in this church)It pains me to think we called it “The Truth.” 😦
I agree with you that there is no link between ministry and fellowship, but I don’t believe they are referring to general fellowship in the following quote: “You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry.” They are using the term “the fellowship” (with a definite article) to describe their religion. So that means they are ultimately saying, “You cannot have our religion without the ministry.” Which is why they’re hanging on to it so tenaciously.
@juliepasta, yes, I understand. But why would anyone want to be restricted to just “the fellowship” as defined by humans, when in fact we each have the opportunity to partake in a bigger, richer, eternal and all-encompassing fellowship as intended by our Creator and Savior?
(And by the way, thank you for your excellent comments and energy over time both here on WINGS and in other forums, supporting justice for survivors and clear thinking.)
Does anyway have the email of Doyle Smith to ask him to cite the verses that support his thesis that “you can’t have fellowship without the ministry” and that “it was planned in heaven”?
Because he made such statements, it would only be right that he could cite the scriptures to prove them.
Will he be able to?
smithdcs2101@gmail.com
God might watch out, they could be after his job next. This “ministry” act alot like brazen squatters. While they try to keep things nice – to their own taste – their claim is invalid. I am glad that they made themselves clear, so that others can’t dance around the “is this the only way” question.
There is definitely a benefit to all these letters and interviews coming out. They are finally publicly verbalizing what they believe.
These letters are so egregious. The split/ separation is now appearing. The most truthful thing said in them “Gods will never lead 2 people in 2 different directions by his Holy Spirit.”
What cannot be supported is the Direction this ministry is taking and has taken of what God established in heaven.
Isn’t it so completely wrong for those workers to pose the question to this elder and his wife as to WHO appointed them as an elder and put the meeting in their home? Isn’t it the spirit? It should be that the meetings were established thru prayer and therefore it would be the spirit that blesses that appointment. What should be asked is WHY they were appointed as an elder and the meeting was put into their home. And the answers better line up with the scriptures and be because this couple are spirit led. And the reason meeting has continued to be in their home had better be because they are spirit led.
I think “purview” is my next favourite word.
The Spirit is at work and warring with another spirit at work.
The stupid letter signed by five names is the most (I don’t have a word for it) thing I have ever heard in my life. I have been going to meetings all my life. Shame on you five. You are an embarrassment to this fellowship.
I notice they originally (when this mess all started) were doubling down on what they believed because of their Living Witness Doctrine, and now they are focusing on DOGGING those who wake up and take God’s hand and walk away. This letter is a warning to everyone else that is THINKING of leaving, “You will be trashed if you leave”. Which should scare everyone, enough to RUN away from this group! This whole thing needs to collapse.
They claim to be “sorry” about the victims, but then turn around and focus on “loving” the predators/criminals instead of the victims. In Luke 10 when Jesus told the story about the Good Samaritan, Jesus told about the help that the VICTIM got and never once did he speak about finding/helping the brutes who beat this victim. Because, he KNEW the hearts of those criminals were not conducive to “throwing your pearls before the swine”. Too bad this ministry doesn’t understand that!!
If you are thinking of leaving, you CAN leave THIS 2×2 Living Witness Doctrine religion and still have a wonderful relationship with God. We are having Sunday Morning Bible Studies around our diningroom table with others, and I know that God is with us at that table! The miracles we have witnessed already are testament to His work.
Montana is the state that produced CSA/SA kingpin Bruer, serial CSA specialist Corfield, porn addict Rauscher, the dirty dozen workers that covered up the child CSA case, and God only knows what else. And now Doyle, Tom, Tammy, Heidi, and Alexis still have the nerve to state that their ministry was established in Heaven? Good Lord.
Even if the workers were once God’s established ministry, it’s pretty clear from the revelations of the past year that this is no longer the case. As Cornelius Jaenen says at the end of his book The Apostles’ Doctrine and Fellowship, “Will the spirit of the primitive church…be dissipated once again? Will the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship survive, or need to be restored again, in the twenty-first century?”
to North America …..
I have thought that maybe I would write a book also – I know about Cornelius’ book. But I have contemplated taking Cornelius’ book one step further… in both directions.
My book would be titled, “A Return to Christ – in the 21st Century”. Will the spirit of the primitive church…be dissipated once again? Will the apostles’ doctrine, and disciples’ doctrines, return to the doctrine of Christ, that the fellowship with the Father and with the Son would return to the earth in greater measure in the twenty-first century?
But my pen fails me. He already told me; “I have already written that book my son”. “And My Finger will do the necessary writing”. “Yes, I have needed to use a hammer and chisel a lot, even many times on you My earthly son…but it has brought joy to Me when you have allowed My Finger to sink in.”
Ya. Man in his ways thought that they were the ones that needed to do the writing on the people’s hearts. I believe all we need to do friends is ask, and seek, and knock…..in that order. I just don’t think there is going to be an option of climbing up some other way. I believe that Door He asked us to knock on will not be found in the hallways of religious enterprise. Who beguiled us to take from that tree of the knowledge of good versus evil that religious enterprise has said would open our eyes and make us wise? It has caused confusion, and evidently He planned it so. He provided both trees, for His own good pleasure – just to see what we would do. Oh to be….a Child again! And venture back to that place of innocence. Despite what religious enterprise convinced us of, eternity actually goes in both directions. We just need to believe in time warps – that we could travel in both directions at the same time. And no worries. Eternity in both directions meets up somewhere in the ether. We can choose to come face-to-face. Or we can choose just to chase our tail for eternity.
I can just hear the people now. “What on earth is this dude saying?” It may be simple. Just let the spirit of a little child lead you in this matter. But don’t take advantage of the Children in the way. Not a good plan. Something unexpected from eternity might just bite you in the butt. Everyone wants to live forever, but not many interested or willing to let their lifespan be shortened, that it may be so. Where are you in the battle? On the front lines? Or are you just bringing up the rear? I suggest the rear guard of the enterprise turn around and take a look-see! Like the old saying, what goes around comes around. Sometimes it just takes a while.
“The ministry was established from heaven even before fellowship…..”. What does that even mean? It’s nonsensical. And even worse, non scriptural. Whatever happened to the words of JESUS “where two or three are gathered in my name, there will I be in the midst of them”. ?
From Joshua’s Brother …
”God will never lead two people in two different directions by his Holy Spirit.”This is a biblically false statement. And anyone in ministry should know this.
Acts 15:39-40 … And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and departed …
Read your Bible. God led two first century disciples in opposite directions. Why? BECAUSE THEY DISAGREED ABOUT MINISTRY BUT WERE IN AGREEMENT ON CHRIST. WAKE UP!
As a survivor I find this letter from workers very amusing. They write of being spirit led and of a bible verse that fits a story. I would like to know what chapter and verse it speaks about the Trauma Therapist, lawyers, and law enforcement helping with these sprit led opinions.
Exactly! In Matthew 19:16 (( elsewhere described as a ruler). One came to Jesus, and said: “what good thing must I do, THAT I may have eternal life?” Surprise – Surprise :17 If thou wilt enter in to Life, “”keep the commandments!”” NOW, that is the Law of Moses given by God to God’s Chosen Nation of Israel. Amazing: can one imagine? The very obstacle that the self appointed ignore “IS the Law” of the government! Then the citizens try to create guidelines; for fair and balanced consideration for victims and perpetrators; and this is ignored! YEP, Lawyers are the answer! Well trained in devious and cunning defense!
To the 5 letter signers, you are “terribly sorry” For what? That all your former companions and overseers dirty secrets are now out in the open? Why havent you had your elder that manages the money (that came from the friends) up in NE Montana open the hidden coffers to help these victims? Your ARROGANCE and CALLOUSNESS is being exposed also. All the years we listened to the “workers” call out the false prophets, hirelings, and wolves in sheep’s clothing – it seems you were projecting. You genuinely believe “you were chosen by God” all the while being deceived and preaching a false gospel yourselves. It is evil what you have done and what you are doing. For the sake of those who still listen to you I hope you will pray for real truth and repentance for yourselves while there is time.
I feel the same way. They stole the money of our parents and grandparents. Used it for……. 🤷🏻♀️🧐😱nobody knows. Kept us silent and made us fear. Fear for going to HELL. Feeling not worthy.They all died in fear. Why did the workers let this happen?
after 42 years I Left, and I am still hurting. I lost all confidence.
The workers need to study the prophets, especially Hosea. Sexual sin was the manifestation of idolatry. The ministry has made itself essential for salvation, along with Jesus (as evidenced by the ridiculous statement made in their letter), which is spiritual IDOLATRY. God used graphic language, calling it whoredom.
They can say they’re sorry for the sexual sins being exposed all they want but until there is repentance for their idolatry and a preaching of the true gospel of Jesus Christ, God will continue to expose, and eventually bring destruction to the whole thing.