WINGS Note:
This Letter from church leadership in Montana/Wyoming/Oregon/South Idaho was sent to the members of a meeting in Montana. The elders of that meeting expressed to the ministry that they cannot currently support the ministry, but did not request for their meeting to be disbanded.
Dear Friends in the Meeting, July 3, 2024
We feel we need to be in touch with each of you in [redacted] and [redacted] Sunday and Wednesday meeting. [redacted] & [redacted] have been in touch by email. They said, “We have been moved, without any doubt in our hearts, to step aside from the purview of the ministry at this time.” They did clarify this by saying, “The Spirit of God no longer moves us to associate with, and support a ministry who is not willing for serious self-examination and genuine repentance.” Our hearts are deeply saddened. The ministry was established from heaven even before fellowship and it is something that we cannot change. We absolutely know there are individuals that horribly abused place and power in the ministry and in the fellowship and have caused great harm. We cannot remove the ministry nor fellowship that God established, but rather the individuals that commit horrible abuse. You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry.
We feel each one of you should know about this and have the opportunity to declare your choice, whether to continue attending meetings at [redacted] and [redacted] home or move to a meeting that believes and follows the doctrine that was established, not by individuals, but by the God of heaven through Jesus, to the ministry. There is room in the other Sunday meetings, so please feel free to contact us IF you are wanting moved from the [redacted] meeting. There will also be a new Wednesday morning meeting home, and we are in the process right now of sorting this out. Thank you for your patience with us as we seek God’s guidance and help.
We are not in the field, but after input and advice from Doyle and Tom we felt this shouldn’t wait till we are back in the field. I have phone service in Canada and will visit with anyone that needs/wants to visit via email, text or phone.
These are truly difficult times, but God in his infinite wisdom and time makes things very clear… There has to be a separation if we do not believe in what God established. We need your prayers so desperately.
With care,
Doyle, Tom
Tammy, Heidi & Alexis
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If this email doesn’t open eyes, I’m not sure what will. “You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry”…who wants to “separate” themselves on the side of the ministry that has supported the 900+ perpetrators of abuse for decades? I stand with #TeamRetracted.
” You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry.” This is no surprise. If you understand how the meeting operates this was always going to happen. The people who thought that they could just have the “2×2 meetings” without the “2×2 ministry” were mistaken. It’s a franchise!
The only how you can continue a meeting in your home without the ministry is if everyone in your meeting was on the same page. Then it will be a meeting but not one recognised by the workers.
This split that happened before. There is another group that still meet in homes today I think in UK after the first split.
If it’s just yourself and your family, make that your meeting. This is what we do and it is wonderful. We started reading from Genesis as a family every night 18 months ago and tonight we are on the last chapter of Job.
We go through verse by verse and the spiritual growth and understanding in context has been enormous.
With all the gospel meetings that people attend, it will take a 2×2 meeting years to fully complete all of those books with over 500 chapters.
In essence, the gospel meetings do not do much for getting to know God’s Word and growing in it. We worked out that with gospel meetings for half the year and conventions, some meetings may only study a maximum of 48 chapters per year with bible study twice a week.
That’s a huge difference. Therefore, as far as I am concerned this is part of the reason for all the chaos, too much time following workers and not enough following scripture. For me it is a waste of time because I get far more from our little family meetings.
I know some people are on their own but if there is one other like minded soul you can join together in person or online.
Take time out to read and get to know God outside of the 2×2 system of religion. This will show you how false it is, the Word of God will cast light on all the lies and bring you into all truth (not the 2×2 version of truth).
100% agree with you. I note that this letter is directly ignoring the word of Jesus in Matthew 18:20 Jesus said, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I with them”.
Yes! They directly ignore that because apparently no one can gather in God’s name without the “workers’ and “their ministry.”
I remember Harold McKnight preaching in a convention years ago. He was talking about a worker Winston McClean who had left the work and the meeting.
Apparently, Winston McClean had started preaching the gospel outside of the 2×2 system.
Harold McKnight said that he had no authority to preach the gospel or baptise people and therefore, he was practising iniquity.
This is why I said earlier that I always knew this is what they believe. That was about 25 years ago.
Amen Sister, Carol you spoke my own words. Covid had a positive effect in that people reading, praying and sharing even over phones was perfectly fine. We have another disgusting virus amongst us called an EVIL MINISTRY. I pray the good ones will separate themselves from the likes of Ray Hoffman, Jerome Frandle and Titus Lehman. I do not understand how Texas/New Mexico can put into place all kinds of procedures and processes along with designating Deacons to deal with much of this and yet other states WILL NOT follow suit. Does this mean the workers in Texas/New Mexico are not being guided by the same spirit as all the others? I thought this faith was under one spirit, one way, one truth, one God, etc. If so then how can all these overseers feel the spirit is guiding them in 1000 different directions regarding so MANY different issues?
May God clarify to those with honest hearts sooner rather than later!
Quoting from the letter above: “The ministry was established from heaven even before fellowship and it is something that we cannot change. … You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry.”
I have been attending meetings since birth (>50 years ago) and reading the Bible for decades, and I can’t recall ever being convicted of this idea.
Is it a widely held belief in our fellowship? Is there some scripture that is used to support it? Genuinely curious.
Certainly there are many references in the Old Testament to false prophets (in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Micah, etc), and Jesus is recorded as speaking about false prophets as ravening wolves. Nowhere does it say people should continue to follow prophets who don’t follow God, quite the opposite.
Some New Testament passages that come to mind, but that seem to refute rather than support the idea that the ministry is the eternal foundation of God’s way, are:
– 1 Corinthians 3:11: “For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
– Hebrews 6:1: “Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,”
– Matthew 16:13-18: “…Jesus ….asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is? … Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
In the passage from Matthew, I remember someone I respect explaining many years ago that the revelation and faith shown by Simon Peter is the “rock” on which Jesus’ church would be built (not on Simon Peter himself as an individual or as a minister).
Does anyone have other insights on this?
This is an amazing statement for a man or woman to make …or group of men and women in this case – “You cannot have the fellowship without the ministry”. Subtle words? Or desperate words? It comes through to my spirit – they are at the least, bitter words.
I find this declaration almost beyond words actually. And that is a peculiar place for me to be in in the last 12 months. But it settles a question in my heart. It is true, in my estimation; the voice of this ministry has made itself out to be God. I suspected this debate about whether to allow predators around children in the church or not went deeper than that. That debate… is just top dressing.
Overseers and workers that are buying and selling these type of words! Yes. You can be confident of my prayers for you all as I have fellowship with Him throughout my day today. And tomorrow and the next day if permitted. I share a different type of bitterness with you in my soul though for where this church is presently at. And I have compassion on your sadness at this time. We all have to try to understand from where the sadness of another is coming from.
@Mark S
Those words “You cannot have the fellowship without the Ministry.” is the rock on which the 2×2 religion is built on.
I am the fifth generation of my family to have attended this “church” and always knew that this is what they believed. I accepted this for years as a child but as it says in the Word of God:
1 Corinthians 13:11-12 New King James Version (NKJV)When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Our desire is to serve Christ, through his Spirit within us. His presence within us is all we need.
We do not read of the William Irvine Ministry Model in the scripture. We do not need anything or any one that comes between us & our Savior.
We are no longer serving a false ministry model that had its roots back in 1897 and abuses so many, showing no remorse.
Our Savior & his Sprit will lead us going forward.
@ptackitt
THIS SUMS IT ALL UP: Psa 3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the Lord : thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
Salvation does not belong to the 2×2’s, God’s ministry does not belong to the 2×2’s, the Holy Spirit does not belong to the 2×2’s and true fellowship is directly under God when 2 or more is gathered under his name.
Notice it’s God’s name NOT ” The fellowship, The Ministry, The meeting or Friends and Workers.”
It says God’s blessing is upon the people. It’s not upon a religion but the people who gather in his name, love and serve him and walk in is counsel.
Therefore, where ever those people are his blessing is upon them. It does not matter if they are in a house having meeting alone with their families or a few like minded people. He will be in the midst of the gathering and his blessing is upon you.
If we are talking about the ministry established in heaven in the beginning according to the bible, I read there that there were two disparate ministries established. One seat each.
If anyone ever had any doubt or uncertainty about who and what this ministry group is, these letters should clarify it.
This group considers themselves a God-appointed special group above all others, including being rulers of church members. They consider themselves essential not only for the salvation of any and all others, but essential to fellowship between believers.
This place of importance is what they focus on and attempt to maintain. Without it, their mission would be considered a failure. That is why they eagerly cover up CSA, SA and are prepared to lie, slander and abuse to protect their position. Nothing is more important to them than their elevated place and they will do almost anything to maintain their lofty place.
This has been going on for a long long time. It has been kept hidden with false humility in spite of many signs to the contrary. The truth is now being revealed.
There have been two types of worker exits over the last year:
1.the most corrupt who could no longer hide their corruption.
2. the few who were not corrupt, but were feeders, not rulers, and could no longer tolerate the continuation of corruption, dishonesty and pride of place among their peers.
The remainder are either corrupt or blind to it.
This is what we are seeing right in front of our eyes from the words of Agur, Prov30:
“There are three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear:
a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;”
“There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.”
We are seeing the red letters of Matt 23 being played out.
I agree Watchman.
And would you mind if I tagged on 24?
And I was going to wait a year or two before I tagged on Rev 13. But things seem to be speeding up. Maybe the same thing as time being shortened. So I am prompted to mention it now. And when anyone that wants to be informed (doesn’t seem like much of the populace that is so inclined) is done reading 13, work your way outwards both ways labouring with the Holy Spirit on what it all means. Don’t spend too much time on each chapter in one sitting, except to stop now and then to ask questions.
And when a person is done that, return to Rev 13 and do it again. Meanwhile returning to the red letters often. And when a person is done that, do it again, and again….and again. And have a visit with Daniel, and Joel, and Hosea, and Isaiah and Jonah now and then. And every day, labour about it as you walk along. Keep it as frontlets between your eyes. And if you get weary, ask Him for the courage …and the grace, to ask, and seek, and knock yet once again. And I am sorry to some people to mention this, but ya know what labouring for the meat that does not perish signifies? Ya – it kinda means, in my mind at least, I gotta show up at work. And the boss doesn’t seem to care how I do my hair, or whether I wear pants or a skirt. He just wants something accomplished so he feels justified in providing me a pay check. On second thought, I take that back. He may be concerned if I show up in a skirt. The work of the employees would grind to a halt. And he would not find it amusing for everyone to have such a smile on their face. Funny thing – how I don’t have any issue with a woman wearing pants. Evolution is a most interesting thing. But a swear word for the religious. I swear – people might want to think about the Master Designer of this imperfect design – building in the ability to evolve, and be like Him. Evidently, many in the church are making light of evolution.
And I might just mention, those that mention and feel that it is all about God’s grace. You ever considered for a minute that that philosophy may be the very reason we find ourselves in this very predicament in the church? These guys of the empire, to me, are actually pushing that philosophy. They feel they need do nothing. Just let it ride. God will make it all work out for me. I just need to say I believe and everything will be cool. He even proved He would wash my feet for me. What else could a man do? Other than telling the Master to rub a bit harder on the right big toe. “Eww. Ahhh! You’re hitting it now. Gout there. Feels so good. I do so love your touch!” Ohh yaaaa….a little more to the right!”
I am only encouraging people to meditate on Revelation so that they would come back soon and tell me my writing was a piece of cake to understand after-all.
But I can just picture the scribes and the priests and the historian Eusebius scratching their heads round the table on that writing we were to add nothing to or take anything away from it. “What in heaven or earth does it all mean?” “Sounds Greek to me!” “What the hell!” “Let’s just leave it in there.” “If we can’t understand it, nobody else will either.” “Just as long as the people perceive us as their salvation.” “That is all that matters.” “And that part about adding nothing or taking anything from this book – we love it”. “Perfect!” “Now….what did we all agree would be canon in the book?”
Betting and Believing have been best buddies at the race track ever since. Seabisket was a phenomena. But every horse has their day. And the jockeys just find a new horse to ride.
Arrogance at it’s best!They have made themselves the master’s!
They are according to their short sighted view the only ordained preacher’s, the only one’s through whom you can attain fellowship! Wow it drips of selfimportance and arrogance!
All believers are to preach the Gospel in their different capacities, but it needs to be the Gospel of God, not tainted with man’s idea’s!
True fellowship is with those who have received the true Gospel and have been changed by it.
Louise, well said. The five names at the bottom of this letter are either liars or coming close to blasphemy stating things that they say about the ministry. They are putting themselves ahead of God. What a total joke they are for making stupid statements.
In my opinion, the workers get so defensive about “unsanctioned” meetings due to fact that if all of the friends withdrew, the workers would lose their livelihoods. Who benefits the most from the ministry? – the workers. They want to remain the so-called gatekeepers between us “commoners” and god/heaven so they can continue standing there with their grubby little hands out, eager to collect the “entrance fee.” And we all know what a terrible price some have had to pay.
I truly support and admire any church who tells the workers, either fix these issues or goodbye. AND the church who puts notice into workers do NOT instantly become outsiders. If COVID taught us anything is that “where 2 or 3 are met together, God’s spirit will be with them”. It does NOT say, that one of the workers has to be part of the 2 or 3. We have made a determination for as long as it gets us, we will NOT be allowing brother workers into our home or providing them any financial support until things change. A united consensus across this entire country is the very least that should be done and we are a long ways from that.