WINGS Note: Dr Natalie Bolin, a co-author of this letter, is an Executive Director at Advocates For The Truth
May 12, 2024
Dear Friends and Workers,
First, we apologize in advance as this letter may be overwhelming with information/topics that you may or may not be aware of. It is a long letter, and yet barely scratches the surface. The intent is to bring awareness and education (resources at the end of this letter) to the worldwide Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) crisis within our fellowship. We ask that you read this letter in its entirety as we want to make very clear our stance about this situation. We know that many have not been made aware of the volume and depth of information that has come to light, and we feel it is important to communicate the basic facts and themes of conversations we are having with survivors and friends nationally and internationally. However, this letter cannot fully capture or relate the complexity of the situation. There are uncomfortable truths that must be acknowledged, discussed, and addressed so that our fellowship can begin to heal. People are not ok.
We wanted to include a brief synopsis of the current situation beginning with the exposure of Dean Bruer here, but there is no way to be brief about all that has come to light. If you are unaware of the details of the current crisis you can click here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ax6ma_0utHpMTfFz0EkkOuaAAawVT6_6nY8sAKSqWrw/edit
This is a link to a timeline (updated almost daily) of all that has come out since May 23, 2023. There are 23 pages of brief entries that create a timeline of events.
We are now in a worldwide crisis. On February 20, 2024, the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) opened a national investigation into our church. Opening an FBI investigation is not a snap decision but a process, meaning a preliminary investigation was presented to a Grand Jury in Washington DC. Through the evidence produced by that preliminary investigation, the Grand Jury decided that there was enough evidence of criminal behavior for federal funds to be dedicated to opening a hotline, along with multiple field agencies dedicating resources to furthering this large-scale investigation that unfortunately now spreads internationally. Just in the past two weeks, the names of 5 workers having credible allegations of child sexual abuse have been brought to light, bringing the total number of identified perpetrators to approximately 840 (40% of these are/were workers) within our fellowship. There are over 22 countries with survivors reaching out for care.
Since the AFTT investigator hotline was established last year, the average number of perpetrators being reported is over 2 perpetrators per day. Statistically according to criminal justice researchers, the average perpetrator has [number redacted, pending verification] victims, so within our fellowship that would project to be an astounding number of victims (the vast majority never report their abuse). Even if no more perpetrators were identified in our fellowship to add to the victim number, today there are likely over [number redacted, pending verification] victims (some still attending meetings while others have left, and some now deceased) that were abused from within our fellowship. Additionally, each week more and more evidence is brought to light that every single overseer in our ministry has had knowledge of perpetrators and/or deliberately and knowingly moved multiple perpetrators around the states and world to protect perpetrators and conceal abuse. This has enabled perpetrators to sexually abuse more and more children. The systematic cover-up of these crimes, and the fact that brother workers and overseers “handled” these situations by moving perpetrators from one area to another with no communication to notify families of the risk they were allowing into their homes is what has led to the sense of betrayal that many of us are feeling and makes this so infuriating. For those in authority to say “we didn’t know how serious CSA and its aftereffects on victims is” is both disingenuous and ridiculous – anyone with any sense of morality knows that crimes against children are heinous and criminal – ignorance is no excuse. If they did not think it was serious, then why were perpetrators moved?!?
In addition to the astounding number of perpetrators in our fellowship, there is a continuing focus on including them in fellowship meetings without any regard for survivors who may also be attending the meeting. Expecting a survivor to have any interactions with a perpetrator or individual with credible allegations in meetings, usually with a denial that any abuse occurred at all (or worse yet, that since the abuse happened years ago it is not relevant), is inexcusable. It is very traumatizing for any survivor to be in meeting with a perpetrator and we must take a zero- tolerance stance.
Statistically 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys are sexually abused before the age of 18 years old. So, the probability of having survivors in every fellowship meeting is high. 90% of children that are sexually abused know their abuser and the abuser is usually trusted by the family. In light of these statistics, the effort that is being put into keeping perpetrators in meeting, without full disclosure, thereby putting our young people at risk, is mind boggling.
One of the friends recently questioned why the potential redemptive story of these individuals, who have committed such atrocities, is so important to this ministry? It is a very fair question. Yes, all souls are of immeasurable value, yet does that mean that the souls of these individuals are of more importance or of more value than that of those whose innocence they stole? To not address the issues in a transparent manner, and to not hold a zero-tolerance stance facilitates perpetrator access to additional victims. It pushes the souls of victims farther away from the community they should be receiving communal care from. Imagine if we put that same type of effort into making meetings safe for survivors and supporting their healing!
Are perpetrators more important than the many families, both young and old, that are leaving this fellowship in droves? Can we have a conversation about the large number of families that are reported to have left our fellowship in AZ primarily because the ministry refuses to take a zero- tolerance stance on allowing perpetrators in fellowship meetings? If Arizona is too far away, perhaps we can discuss the families that have left here in CA (we personally know many of them)? No, what we are hearing, though perhaps not directly but rather through worker’s parts in meetings or communications, is that those leaving are “bitter”, that they were “dead wood”, or that this is the great “falling away” that we read about in the Bible. In reality, they are leaving because of an unresponsive ministry that has chosen to circle the wagons and maintain the status quo and continue to protect perpetrators and not acknowledge and deal with the current crisis – bitterness and hardness of heart have nothing to do with it.
Another refrain we often hear is “just stay off the internet” which frankly is an outdated response because of the times we live in and how information is now shared. Most workers have both a computer and a smart phone. Telling people to stay off the internet is equivalent to telling them to not listen to the news during a war or not search up the weather forecast or doppler radar during a tornado warning in a bad storm. When people do learn of even the basic details and magnitude of this crisis within our fellowship, they are taken aback, shocked, and angry that this is not being discussed openly. No communication is in and of itself communication. Lack of communication by those who call themselves shepherds of the sheep just deepens the feeling that secrets are being kept. For those who do know what is happening it deepens the sense of betrayal and loss of trust. We cannot keep putting our heads in the sand and pretend that “all is well.”
If we don’t address the past, it will repeat itself in the future (which has been true in this fellowship). We have received reports of worker abuse going back over 100 years (family members reporting abuse of loved ones that have already passed away). We have survivors in their 90’s that have reported for the first time in their life! Imagine carrying those wounds around your whole life!!! Reporting is the first step to healing, and it is tragic that so many haven’t felt safe enough to speak out until now and finally begin their healing journey.
When we received the e-mail asking whether we were open to having workers stay in our home during special meetings, it hit us like a ton of bricks. The unfortunate reality is that we now must question if workers have allegations before agreeing to have them stay with us or welcome them into our home, as we cannot trust that such individuals have been removed. This is a huge problem.
We keep holding on to hope that we will begin to see increased awareness and strengthening of purpose to address this massive crisis through implementation of CSA/trauma training (beyond Ministry Safe which just scratches the surface) and listening sessions/elders/wives’ meetings to help support one another as more and more information comes out. We are hopeful that at very least a discussion amongst all the worker staff occurred during the workers’ meeting at Casa Grande, AZ. Can someone tell us if there was any discussion amongst the staff about this massive worldwide crisis? Was there discussion about how to come together as a ministry to support the countless survivors and their families including adopting and truly adhering to a zero-tolerance policy regarding alleged and confirmed perpetrators? If there was a discussion, we would love to know about the outcomes, what was shared, and what the action plan is.
We have been waiting over a year for meaningful, substantive change to even begin.
Instead, we keep hearing that workers here at home and across the U.S. are telling people “It’s time to move on” or provide the dismissive “they are bitter/hard” rationale for any who are struggling or who have left. Do you understand how triggering this is for survivors to hear? Many survivors report that while being abused, threats were made to them to not tell anyone and that no one would believe them anyways even if they did. By saying “It’s time to move on” or “they are just bitter/hard”, this echoes the voice of abusers and further victimizes survivors as they continue to struggle with the eternal wounds of abuse, and reinforces that they indeed are not being believed. The average age for disclosure of child sexual assault is 52 years of age, and 86% of CSA goes unreported. The result in our faith is a long list of survivors, spanning generations, with intense trauma histories being shamed and silenced.
For the sake of our survivors, our young people, and the sake of the ministry, we cannot continue to address CSA in the same manner the ministry has become accustomed to. Those in authority (brother workers/overseers, and sister workers at their direction) that have made, and continue to make, damaging decisions about perpetrators are still in positions of authority and their actions (or inaction) continues to push souls away. Unfortunately, the current action/inaction of the ministry makes it appear that the intention of the ministry is to continue down the same path it has for 100+ years.
We have made the difficult decision to no longer have an open home for the ministry. We love and plan to continue having a fellowship meeting in our home, however, we will not be attending Gospel meetings, special meetings, or conventions. We cannot in good conscience support the ministry with our presence, nor financially support the current ministry as they continue to not address the crisis at hand; instead we will help fund survivor treatment and care. We firmly stand with our survivors and do not believe perpetrators should be allowed in fellowship meetings.
This is why we both did not attend Special Meetings this year, along with many others. Attendance of Gospel meetings and special meetings gives a false impression that everything and everyone is ok. Does this mean we feel all in the ministry are to blame? No, not at all. We love and continue to pray for those honest hearts in the ministry who have been a spiritual help to us and our families in the past. We hurt for those in the ministry who feel grieved and yet are unable to take a stand in this crisis that would be contrary to the stance of those that are in authority for fear of losing their place in the work for speaking up for survivors. Our trust has been betrayed by those leading the ministry not just in our region, but throughout the states as we are one fellowship looking to one ministry.
We do not agree with how the ministry is handling this crisis.
If any are interested in further conversation regarding the contents of this letter, or discussing strategies the ministry could use to address this crisis, or references regarding any data in this letter, please feel free to contact us.
With much love and concern,
Ben Bolin, School Psychologist and Dr. Natalie Bolin, DSW, LCSW
[Phone numbers redacted by WINGS]
Book Recommendations:
1. Tear Down This Wall of Silence: Dealing with Sexual Abuse in Our Churches by Dale Ingraham.
2. Predators: Pedophiles, Rapist and Other Sex Offenders by Dr. Anna Salter *this is a very difficult book to read-trigger warning.
3. The Body Keeps the Score by Dr. Bessel Van der Kolk
4. Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church by Dr. Diane Langberg
5. A Church Called TOV: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer
Website Links (information is verified):
Wings for Truth- www.wingsfortruth.info
Advocates For The Truth (AFTT)- www.advocatesforthetruth.com
Connected and Concerned Friends (chat app by invitation): https://connected-and-concerned-friends.mn.co/share/CkJfGykaM-yAtRZj
Here are a few links to some of the media coverage:
January 2024
1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66449988.amp
February 2024
1. FBI: https://forms.fbi.gov/2×2
3. BBC article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68361054
4. Media from Daily Dot in regards to Scott Rausher https://www.dailydot.com/news/church-leader-likes-facebook-archie-content/
April 2024
1. New Zealand RNZ: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018935415/secret-sect-investigated-over-historical-sexual-abuse
2. Yankton Daily Press and Dakotan Newspaper Article: https://www.yankton.net/community/article_c8ba7a62-febf-11ee-a2ac-37fecd43f35d.html or can be accessed at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m5fEsIfJSeSWwTHiSeYXu7_yoTcC4yYHKraHsOin1oc/edit
3. FBI investigating Two by Twos for historical child sexual abuse claims, including in Australia- https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-28/fbi-investigating-historical-sex-abuse-claims-against-two -by-two/103767698
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In Alaska the policy regarding anyone convicted of or alleged to have committed sexual abuse against a child or adult, is not allowed to come to convention. Period. Zero tolerance. As it should be. I believe this is true of fellowship and gospel meetings as well. This policy should be universal and without any more discussion. Anyone who knowingly allows an alleged or convicted perpetrator to attend is complicit and should be reported to the FBI. Do do anything less is not optional.
In Wisconsin, there was (and maybe still is) a jail outreach program where “Workers” actually recruited “Friends” to go into prisons to preach to peds and perps and pervs. The result is that at least five of these creeps were welcomed into meetings in the Appleton, Wisconsin area after they got out from behind bars ( see Overseer Glenn Gasser’s letter posted on Wings on May 25, 2023). Why the vast difference in policy between Alaska and Wisconsin?
Hi, I have been trying to reply & comment, but can’t recover my password. any suggestions? ________________________________
This letter is spot on! It’s very well articulated and hits the key points. The letter has the numbers and they are staggering (the total number of identified perpetrators to approximately 840 (40% of these are/were workers). The number of potential people who are victims was redacted. The number of victims at this point would be mind boggling.
The key to the letter is this: “(people) are leaving because of an unresponsive ministry that has chosen to circle the wagons and maintain the status quo and continue to protect perpetrators and not acknowledge and deal with the current crisis – bitterness and hardness of heart have nothing to do with it”.
That is absolutely correct. I think this needs to be taken one step further, though. The ministry feels that they are God(s) and they can judge, implement and act in what ever way they see fit. With no consequences.
“For those in authority to say “we didn’t know how serious CSA and its aftereffects on victims is” is both disingenuous and ridiculous – anyone with any sense of morality knows that crimes against children are heinous and criminal – ignorance is no excuse. If they did not think it was serious, then why were perpetrators moved?!?”
And, then “telling people “It’s time to move on” or provide the dismissive “they are bitter/hard” rationale for any who are struggling or who have left”. These people who say, ” It’s time to move on “, the sexual abuse victims can’t.
Sexual assault victims are stuck with the sexual assault replaying in their head for the rest of their lives. The person saying this, if they were hit unannounced in the head by a baseball bat, I doubt they would be saying, ” No big deal, it’s time to move on “. It’s the same, except the sexual assault is worse and never leaves the memory. The hurt is to the psychic. That pain is permanent.
Thank you to this psychologist and doctor for this informative, well written and accurate letter. I, for one, think you are spot on. Will this letter do any good? The answer is in the letter: “every single overseer in our ministry has had knowledge of perpetrators and/or deliberately and knowingly moved multiple perpetrators around the states and world to protect perpetrators and conceal abuse”.
Jerome Frandle is one such overseer. He even was convicted and went to jail for it (see Wings For Truth homepage). And, right back to being overseer. Just like a boomerang. Throw it out and they come right back. No matter how bad you want to never see it again!
Life gives all mankind the wonderful privelage of actively choosing to stand tall and firm for what is true and right .. for what is honest and decent.
Why does 2×2 membership feel they are exempted from this privelage and from this moral responsibility?
The choice to actively, participate, justify and underwrite a system of such obvious degenerate moral values is very clear complicity.
Its not like more fullfilling and more honourable options aren’t available !
In a reply not long ago someone said, “There are many who still attend (meetings) but never drank the koolaid”.
This letter points out, “Another refrain we often hear is “just stay off the internet” which frankly is an outdated response because of the times we live in and how information is now shared. Most workers have both a computer and a smart phone. Telling people to stay off the internet is equivalent to telling them to not listen to the news during a war or not search up the weather forecast or doppler radar during a tornado warning in a bad storm”.
The person saying that they didn’t drink the Kool-Aid, maybe true as far as not obeying the workers when they said to stay off the Internet. Obviously this person is on Wings For Truth, which is the Internet. Continuing to belong to any group that attempts to control and influence how you think by limiting the information you have, you are drinking the Kool-Aid.
Limiting information you can get from sources that have facts that could sway your beliefs, and instead only giving you the information they want you to have? That is communism. That is the thinking of cults. That is not freedom, and it is definitely not Christianity. You are drinking the Kool-Aid.
@Kool-Aid. You might want to brush up on the definition of communism. What you are describing is closer to fascism or totalitarianism.
Watchman, you’re right!
Totalitarianism —
a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
Thanks for the input!
Kool-Aid: Thank You for your factual – yet, chilling “post”. This Letter To The Church gives validity to a Church! Time and research has proven, yes:
#1. It is “a” church: yes, just like all the others in your community. However, all the other churches in your community —
#2. “have their history” and their “founders” — all neatly recorded and tied with a bow — free for your reading and learning. AND: YES they encourage you to read it and put it in YOUR pocket for all to know! They proudly proclaim a “MAN’S” WISDOM based on exactly which verses from scripture; and
#3. ‘record’ what their Doctrine is!
#4. know the Laws of the LAND and gladly follow! AND –What is More is: They proudly “Post” all financial information and attendance! ETC..
BUT they are “all” led by wolves in sheep’ clothing!
Is this commendable? Does this work? At least the members are able to know and discuss – AND ASK Question without being ‘excommunicated’.
Those who feel they did NOT drink the Kool-Aid and continue to follow in lock-step inspite of the ‘proven’ – documented CSA-SA are ignoring inhuman, twisted, gross criminal behaviour. Yes, against the very so trained – trusting little ones in our midst. AND the VERY NON-structure attacks the “victim” while hiding-protecting-honoring THE CRIMINAL!
For the “Overseer’s to say: “Oh, we did not KNOW – all the while moving THAT criminal to another field- state or country::: THEY DID KNOW!
AND to read the Statement ::: Every “”single ‘overseer’ has HAD knowledge AND Deliberately AND Knowingly —- Moved multiple “”perpetrators””!!! —MEANS — YES, even the very bestest and your favorite IS ‘GUILTY’!!!
THEY MUST BE held accountable! YOU must Demand:, YES, You have THE ‘responsibility’! Soft – Warm – and fuzzy will NO LONGER be allowed! ((AND for your very OWN protections — ASK for a copy of the the founder! and a copy of the “Doctrine” and a statement of the “financial” record for the LAST “one hundred years”. — YES, INCLUDE all expenses, for what where and whom! WELL, at least the LAST TEN YEARS. WELL: at least the “PRESENT”!
AND then ask how, where and when — who received HOW MUCH? — Medicaid? How does the “Kool-Aid” taste, NOW?
It is so sad to see day after day people writing letters and trying to get workers’/overseers to act differently. The fact is THEY DO NOT CARE! It is a CULT and a BROTHERHOOD! People are wasting their breath and energy.
We cannot change anyone, we can only change ourselves. In the book 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey it gives an interesting take on the word responsibility: It does not mean taking blame but that you have a RESPONSE ABILITY or the ability to respond in a way that gives you a degree of personal power.
The one power that people have is choice, the “workers'” like to talk about “making your choice”.
It’s time for people to realise that they do not have to be victims of this abusive ministry any longer but can ‘choose to respond’ by walking away from it.
They can ‘choose to stop’ pleading and begging workers’/Overseers to change from their evil ways and act like the Jesus they are suppose to be serving.
You are not trapped because the WORD of GOD and the Spirit of GOD sets us FREE. The overseers’ do not have all power and dominion over the people.
They do not control salvation.
They do not decide who enters into the Kingdom of God and most importantly, the “meetings” is NOT God’s kingdom.
It is an earthly religion just like any other and a FALSE one at that.
The people are sufferring from STOCKHOLM syndrome who continue to be loyal to these overseers’. They are in a psychological prison because of years of hearing “ThIs is GOD’s true way, the ONLY way to salvation.” It is difficult for some to reconcile the truth of what is happening now with years of brainwashing but it can be done.
Repition is how the brain is programmed and many were programmed. However, here is some FREE coaching advice: repitition is also how you undo programming.
Everytime the 2×2 programming pops up in your mind ” This is God’s true way, everyone outside this way is unsaved.”
Replace it with “God’s true way is not an earthly denomination that is corrupt and corruptible but is in HIS SON Christ Jesus who is incorruptible and in HIM alone is SALVATION.”
After some time, this new understanding will override the 2×2 programming and it will set you FREE from religion and bring you into a direct relationship with our creator.
The two beliefs cannot co-exist, it is either Salvation is through CHRIST or a denomination and we know that is BY GRACE ALONE, THROUGH CHRIST ALONE!
Nicky, what a GREAT post, “After some time, this new understanding will override the 2×2 programming and it will set you FREE from religion and bring you into a direct relationship with our creator”.
For this psychology major you said it well when talking of Stockholm syndrome, which is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation, when people develop positive feelings toward their captors or abusers over time. There is an entire group that fits this narrative. Never good enough. Never doing enough. Can’t go to enough meetings. Having to wear the “right clothes”, hairstyle, acceptable jewelry… This isn’t the way Jesus wanted people to live!
Professing people say, “Well, I hope that I did enough and am good enough to be in heaven one day”. Never thinking that they are good enough. The Bible tells us that we can receive eternal life by believing in Jesus Christ (John 14:16). When we put our faith in Jesus, we are forgiven of our sins and given the gift of eternal life. This is a free gift from God that He offers to all who believe.
If you would like to receive this gift, all you need to do is repent of your sin and ask Jesus to come into your heart. He will forgive you and give you eternal life. All we have to do to receive eternal life is believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him.
The most repeated phrase in the bible is: FEAR NOT! The most emphasized thought from a worker is the opposite, to fear, instill fear and not simply trust in Jesus. Jesus is freedom, and not fear. Nicky is right, “After some time, this new understanding will override the 2×2 programming and it will set you FREE from religion and bring you into a direct relationship with our creator”. You’re going to be amazed how good it feels to replace fear with freedom!
You said it all and I have nothing to add. You are spot on in your analysis. Thank you for taking time to articulate.
Totally agree with Nicky. God gave each one of us one brain and two feet for a reason.
Excellent post, Nicky. Yes, 2x2ism is a full blown CULT. Everyone in 2x2ism has been programmed to believe a pack of lies and to behave in a certain way. It’s a fear based system and a pride based system. Pride of being part of the CHOSEN who are part of this cult, and fear of being shunned by the cult if you upset the cult leaders.
2x2s Inc — you spelled it all out in a few words. ” Pride of being part of the CHOSEN who are part of this cult, and fear of being shunned by the cult if you upset the cult leaders”. Having the visual identifiers of dress and hair is also pride, while signaling humility (ie. look at me and how humble I am and how worldly you are).
Shunned by the cult is very real. You are like window glass to the members. They look at you and act as if you’re not even there. Unbelievable until it happens. Just to “fit in” is “the way”. Accept the child molesters. Don’t cause a stir. You will then be an accepted member. And, you are part of the chosen. Just because of dress and hair. And that you don’t cause a stir and accept child molesters.
@2x2s incorporated
They tried to deny me baptism in my early twenties because of my hairstyle. I was devastated because I felt ready for the step. When I asked why, I was told that it was because of my hairstyle; it shows that I was not 100% dead.
Have you ever heard such rubbish? As usual, a sister worker was sent to get me to conform to the requirements. I had sister workers trying to get me to wear their old pleated dresses.
I was being groomed for the work but God had other plans. I was told by an older brother that since I was in my late twenties and unmarried at the time that I should consider the work.
I asked the older sister, what about all the people who use to dress so simple but has now broken out of their shells? Have they come back to life after being 100% dead? How is that possible? She couldn’t answer.
Anyway, I got baptised that year. I never changed a thing but remained authentic. Who are they to deny anyone the right to baptize if they want? It’s just them using every single opportunity to get you to conform to their controlling system of worship.
When I was about ten some of the older friends use to complain about me not wearing a hat to the meeting and not singing loud enough in meetings. I wasn’t even professing!
Nicky states,
“They tried to deny me baptism in my early twenties because of my hairstyle. I was devastated because I felt ready for the step. When I asked why, I was told that it was because of my hairstyle; it shows that I was not 100% dead.
Have you ever heard such rubbish? “.
Yes, Nicky, I have heard of this rubbish! And such a good word for what you call it!!!! My daughter was the model teen. She was most of all spiritual and all in for Christ. But…. she was on her schools downhill ski team and was really good at the position. She also wore blue jeans. The same as you, she was denied to be baptized.
Go forward 10 years. My daughter is still a good skier and still wears blue jeans and still loves Christ. The difference is she is now free from the cult! She is even moving into being an author regarding being free from the cult and being one with Christ. This religion is devastating to Christianity. It talks against Christians. It is not following the basic principles of Christ.
Nicky, you are better off that the “workers” did not baptize you. You are better than that. Go forward, realize your blessings and thank God!
@ Thank God
The workers did baptise me that year because they had no real grounds for denying me after I pointed out the things I mentioned.
I left the cult 51/2 years ago and have no regrets. God has never left me. He called me out of it.
It also took me 51/2 years to build the courage to leave. However, one morning as I was getting ready for meeting it all became really clear. I was struggling to let go of what was an illusion of the truth.
The Holy Spirit was not there. No “pure strangers” i.e. those without a connection to the meeting professed in gospel meetings in more than 20 years. I started asking others and they were confirming that the same was happening in their parts.
People were not really studying the Bible. A five minute word in fellowship meetings and some only taking on board what comes from the workers.
They were spending the majority of meeting time in gospel meetings which bore no real fruit.
A dead tree cannot bring forth fruit! I saw that this same pattern was repeated in many countries where the “workers” preach and for decades.
Conventions being closed, homes closing after older ones pass on and friends leaving. The whole thing just kept shrinking.There is no real growth!
I saw it falling between the categories of the false and dead church of revelation.
The “workers” are “planting and watering” but God is NOT giving the increase because it is an evil and corrupt religion. Too much abuse, lies and deception. Not to mention, trying to add a cost to what was already paid for by Christ and is FREE.
Salvation is FREE to all who believe but the meeting system tries to profit on it by adding “there is no salvation for those outside of their way.” Referring to people who leave the meeting as having lost out on salvation.
It is like a dentist getting free samples to give to patients but deciding to sell them for his/her own profit. It would mean that the company is cheated because it wouldn’t get the number of converts to its product as if the samples were just given out freely.
What do you think would happen if the company found out? Well God does not have to find out, he sees it all and can pull the plug at anytime.
When I left, I got a letter from the senior worker in the field. He wrote “we buried three people who left the meeting last week. This is the ONLY way! You will get sick first and then you will die.”
WOW!
Nicky, regarding baptism you wrote earlier that the workers denied you to be baptized when you first asked. And then you write, “The workers did baptise me that year because they had no real grounds for denying me after I pointed out the things I mentioned“.
In essence, you had to fight to be baptized. You had to point out the workers had no grounds not to baptize you. The workers have to involve themselves in salvation. They have to judge people to see who they think is worthy.
Nicky, you wrote workers are, “trying to add a cost to what was already paid for by Christ and is FREE.
Salvation is FREE to all who believe but the meeting system tries to profit on it by adding “there is no salvation for those outside of their way.” Or, outside of first going through a worker.
How does a flawed human think that they are so superior? How does a flawed human think that they are on the same level as Christ? Leaders of cults think they are on the same level as Christ. And that is what you have here with, “the ONLY way!”, as the senior worker wrote Nicky in his farewell letter to her.
@Flawed Humans
Yes, it did feel like a fight to be baptised at the time. Now the worker who baptised me is out of the work and accused of CSA. Yet, my hairstyle was a problem😀
Nicky, your story is so touching, raw and real. It all came down to “hair”. How superficial! That was the deciding factor!
“Yes, it did feel like a fight to be baptised at the time. Now the worker who baptised me is out of the work and accused of CSA. Yet, my hairstyle was a problem”.
An earlier post read, “There is an entire group that fits this narrative. Never good enough. Never doing enough. Can’t go to enough meetings. Having to wear the “right clothes”, hairstyle, acceptable jewelry… This isn’t the way Jesus wanted people to live!”.
Then you wrote something that most people in the “professing” system don’t understand, “Salvation is FREE to all who believe but the meeting system tries to profit on it by adding “there is no salvation for those outside of their way.”
This is simply crazy. This means that there is no salvation outside of first going through a worker. And that means that there is no salvation without going through William Irvine, who the first worker professed through, and every worker since can trace their lineage.
That further means that there is no salvation outside of first going through William Irvine! Crazy! But, yes, hair is a deciding factor when getting baptized… Crazy….. As is wearing blue jeans, …
Crazy!
@CRAZY
Agree 100% with everything you have said.
I just want to make a correction. The worker with the CSA accusation was the main one carrying on the service in the water but another brother worker actually did the baptisms.
So far, I haven’t heard of any allegations against him. I just wanted to clarify what I said earlier.
Nicky, someone hearing about your denial of baptism, “They tried to deny me baptism in my early twenties because of my hairstyle”, may not even think about what you said. If they thought about what you said they most definitely would not have considered what you went through after that.
Most people don’t think about what other people experience. What you went through is spiritual abuse. Spiritual abuse and trauma cuts very deep. Most people would know nothing about the situation and trauma.
This abuse, like the sexual abuse of a child, or abuse of any kind is unacceptable and should not happen. Any group that has a culture that encourages abuse, of any kind, is dangerously cruel and should never be allowed. Good for you to leave the group. I hope that you get the help that you need to get through the pain of your abuse and not let the abuse continue to fester in your life. May God bless you!
@ Abuse is real!
Thank you! Looking back now I can see how many levels abuse occurred on and continue to occur even now.
It’s sad because it all came down to power and control even for some I had respected. One girl around my age at the time or perhaps a little bit older was refused baptism because she was doing a hairdressing course😀 Apparently, she was getting into a “very wordly profession”.
At times, as much as three years or more would pass with no baptisms. They would scope out the scene to see how many were conforming before giving anyone the chance to be baptised.
Essentially, the meeting is not about salvation through faith but all about works.
Nicky, you summed it up, “Essentially, the meeting is not about salvation through faith but all about works”.
The trouble with works, as human beings can never do enough. Never. We will always come short of the perfection of God. That is why there was and is Jesus.
Workers want so bad to come between us and Jesus. We don’t need a go between. We don’t need that ” middle man “. Jesus is everything that we ever needed.
…All the fears all the lies I’ve believe in. All I’ve been chasing. Put all my faith in. Let it fade, let it fall into pieces.
Just give me Jesus. That is amazing and that is enough.
Nicky, you are so correct about the programming and everything else. I have stepped away also and boy!!!!!! The programming is so there. Religion is a form of control and therefore very false. Just getting a copper bracelet to wear is a big step for me. 47 years to shed and learn to grow. As I have just seen the other day, religion is taught, spirituality is learned. So much wonderful to learn. It is amazing, but much to shed for me.
@BessieAlane
Yes, the programming is real. It’s when you take a step back and allow the Holy Spirit to take over that the veil is really removed.
We can’t be ruled by the 2X2 law and be guided by God’s Spirit at the same time. There are times when the 2×2 unwritten laws and ‘meeting spirit’ are in direct conflict with what the Holy Spirit is trying to show you.
This was my main struggle within it and why God called me out.
After I left completely, I had some profressional photos done for a big birthday. I found it so difficult at the time to even use one as a profile picture because my hair was done nicely.
It was cut to just above shoulder length and my face was done in a natural tone but professionally for the photos.
I had to say to myself that I am no longer going to let the rules of something I am not a part of continue to control me and I pressed post and never looked back.
There are still moments like this even after 51/2 years but the are fewer and far between.
Leaving the meeting was very difficult for me. I did not know what to expect on the other side of it.
I did not know how my marriage would be affected, how the people I cared about would react and it brought me to a very low place where I felt trapped.
However, I have learned a lot from my experience and through study since.
“We can’t be ruled by the 2X2 law and be guided by God’s Spirit at the same time” and, “religion is taught, spirituality is learned”.
Both are excellent statements!
Being told, after letting it be known you wanted to be baptized, “now you have to start wearing modest clothes and longer skirts…” That is be SCHOOLED, or taught by someone who thinks that they know “the right way to be”.
Spirituality will gently guide you, instead. No harshness and judgement and nobody looking over your shoulder.
Can you believe, “Just getting a copper bracelet to wear is a big step for me. 47 years to shed and learn to grow”?
Everyone who has been part of the abuse knows to well the reality of always having someone looking over their shoulder. Because everyone always is. You are in constant judgement, and in the church, you are judging.
To escape that reality, and it is escape, you’re finally able to be guided by God’s Spirit, and leave behind the arrogance of “being chosen” and the spirituality God has for us can be learned.
Thank you for this open letter! It is so telling regarding response from those in power or influence, and so sad for those that are innocent – or in denial of a boatload of facts regarding wrongdoing.
@Nicky
I do agree with what you say.
And I am one that had some degree of thinking I could have some influence, albeit miniscule, in prompting even one of the overseers to stop and think about maybe one little concept in what their words and actions are doing. Through the prompting of one little thought, then maybe that would prompt another little thought.
I also accept Stephen Covey’s view that many people waste their time and effort in the sphere of influence where they have no control or influence, and not enough time in the sphere of influence where they do have control.
So taking that a bit further, possibly one person alone has no real influence. But could their be something to 10 or 100 or 1000 people’s voices having influence? I don’t know in this particular matter, and personally coming to the place that it is not mattering to me any longer. It appears like the Grand Poobahs will do what they want to do. And possibly, this is what is meant to be. Me kicking against the pricks in this matter then becomes a detriment and burden to myself. I can’t say that I was not moved to try to speak – but the voice within is moving me now in a different way. In other words, I did what I was lead to do, but there seems to be a motivation now to distance myself for my own good. So in that sense, 10 or 100 or 1000 ..whatever …. it is not really what is meant to be. Shall I be as one that helps beat the air?
The simple fact that all of the overseers are banded together in their view of not going back and helping the victims (14 months now), nor making an effort to make things right with the abused and forsaken is to me now an omen of a certain type. And they seem to hold sway over the remainder of workers entrenched in that way of thinking. This grip of something foreign to Jesus teaching is quite remarkable. These people are calling themselves teachers of Jesus’ Way and Jesus’ Truth. Not only that, they say they are the only ones qualified and certified to do such. Remarkable.
For me personally, it is a foreboding omen I should not discount nor disregard.
I certainly agree with you Mark … We were fairly prominent members at one time and held the illusion that we could somehow influence the the system for the better. We knew that many of the friends and workers that we deemed were honorable, shared our assessment of the right and wrongs in the system. — Yet the extreme cowardice of the vast majority of these folks (prominent membership and workers) … to stand for what we knew they believed themselves made them complete betrayers of what we knew was THEIR OWN faith in our estimation.
Just check all the reform interested groups …. 95% claim an interest in genuine Christianity … yet the greatest horor they know, is that their writings and genuine feelings would be revealed in such a way that general membership and works would know what they were thinking.
I became the devil himself for suggesting that they should share their words and spirit with the workers and friends involved.
Mark S keep your analysis going. Your intelligent and you speak to many minds out there that you don’t know. Keep it going. There are people that hear you.
Edgarmassey noted, “…the extreme cowardice of the vast majority of these folks (prominent membership and workers) … to stand for what we knew they believed themselves made them complete betrayers of what we knew was THEIR OWN faith…”.
It has amazed me my entire life that the vast majority of people run in extreme cowardice (lack of bravery) and even though they see a lot wrong with a situation, they can’t stand for what is right. They can’t face the fight, they fear the bully! The most important things in life that are trampled on and they can’t face the bully.
The bully is not going anywhere though, so it appears the options are, to give into the bully, go the way the overseers say, or simply walk away. If there ever was a time to walk away it’s now. The overseers have told the victims, “it’s time to move on”. And for everyone else, you also have to move on. Walk past the hurting sexually assaulted victims, side with the predators.
The overseers have made it clear that the game is set and the rules are in place, unless the overseers need to move the goal posts to their advantage, and change the rules in their favor. At this time it is either sit in cowardice, or walk away. Or better yet, run!
@Cowardice? The bigger problem that prevents action is cognitive dissonance. They cannot grasp the evil that is right in front of them and in some instances even mistake the evil for good.
Watchman, you are bring up some great stuff here, talking cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is a psychology term to describe the mental discomfort people feel when their beliefs and actions are inconsistent and contradictory.
This discomfort ultimately encourages some change in either their beliefs, or actions, to align better and reduce this dissonance, or tension or conflict. Without either changing a person’s beliefs, or their actions, to come in line with each other there will be psychological stress felt.
The discomfort is triggered by the person’s belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein the individual tries to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort. That is why many people are very upset about the way overseers are not addressing what the people see a problem. The beliefs and actions are in conflict.
To find relief to the thinking, that changes are needed to stop the present system that protects the sexual predators and alienates the victims, the person either has to give into the overseers lax attitude towards sexual predators, or leave the group. Without taking one of the two positions there will be psychological stress known as cognitive dissonance. There is no in between. You can’t go half way. You either support the overseers, or you don’t.
Cognitive dissonance will be felt psychologically in any situation with conflict. Should I steal this item from the store, or not? Does the action of stealing go with or against your beliefs? Should I have an affair? Does your beliefs say, “life is short, go for it”, or that having an affair is wrong? Should I support a system that is set up to give comfort and support to child molesters, or is that wrong? It all depends on how your actions align with your beliefs. It’s not complicated.
Mark S and Nicky: Isn’t that amazing: HOW MANY have felt they could HELP! AND what is frightening is::: they THEN “become the enemy”!
BUT that exercise of learning: became a “ball bat”, which “broke the spell”, and allowed us to begin to return to rational thinking!
The heart breaking admission of Dr. Natalie Bolin and Ben Bolin on page 3, after they received an E-mail asking whether “we were open to having workers stay in our home”, “”It hit us like a ton of bricks”” — This IS MORE than a HUGE PROBLEM! THIS is more than a symptom!
Bucky gives the answer: A brain and two feet!
Mark S explains: “shall I be one that ‘HELPS’ beats the air?”
AND edgarmassey makes a statement THAT seems to be foreign and unacceptable ‘behavior’? Stand Tall and Firm for what is “”true”” and “”right””(((yes, that will take a great amount of study and time)) and honest and decent ((( this you already KNOW and EXPECT))).
Mr. and Mrs. Bolin, we deeply respect and know that you have PUT yourselves ‘out-there’ because of great concern, care and desire to “help the ‘abused’ while honestly believing there is a solution. We extend our heart and hand to you for your desire and intent:; we also are in sorrow knowing by brutal Learning your heart-mind-soul will be broken. This experiment by Wm. Irvine plays with God’s Word as written. So very sorry.
As we look into the eyes of those who are learning this horrible lesson; – we are frightened. As we look into the eyes of those who are defeated, are hearts are broken. BUT when we look into the EYES of those who have travelled both paths; desperate to know God — realizing they DID NOT! and turn to the only record we have that “religion” twists and perverts; to “try to learn WHAT God actually RECORDS” thru the very “Spirit of Christ” = 1 Peter 1:11: ; what do we see??? and hear??? AMAZEMENT and HOPE and unbelievable Life, Hope and JOY! NO, it is not JUST another religion that plays with God, and His Son Jesus; it is God’s WORD as written.
WE have learned through ‘desperate search and study’ THAT the ‘Way” is NOT able to follow Jesus in His fleshly ministry of the “Promised Kingdom of Heaven on Earth is at hand” to that Nation of Israel; which was given to the 12 “apostles”;;
nor in the Risen Jesus’ Christ’s Heavenly ministry of the Dispensation of the Grace of God.(Ephesians 3:1-:9 and Romans 3:21 – :26) given to Paul to dispense. That is a brutal lesson BUT one we will want to remember; because it is LIFE we are living JUST once. WE MUST know what God really left on record for our learning(Romans 15:4 – :12 and what God has left on record for our “obedience” – Romans 15:15 – :16 – :17 AND Romans 3:21 – :26. Even Peter knew: 2 Peter 3:15 – :16; while Israel was blinded THAT God had set aside the Gospel of the Kingdom to Israel ;;; and was now “long-suffering” as in Romans 11:.7 – :27- till.
@Mark S,
This is not the time to be discouraged in the battle. You have influence where you might not see. I feel God can magnify and compound the one voice that’s influencing for good and for right to be equivalent to 10, 100 or 1000 voices. Thank you for caring.
Thanks Ben and Natalie Bolin, this is well written and spot on.Appreciate your actions that confirm you are serious about your zero tolerance policy.Thanks for all you do🌷
My only addition to this letter is the root causes of the abuse need to identified. Abuse is simply a symptom of the fundamental, legalistic and patriarchal culture. Many churches/groups with the same ethos have storied histories of child sex abuse and other forms of abuse with years of cover-up as well. The truth is not special in its problems. Abuse will continue if the causes/roots remain. Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people. To believe in change by just demanding zero tolerance is magical thinking. The whole system needs an overhaul or abuse and cover-ups will continue.
Since this will likely not happen, people will continue to leave until the truth becomes more and more obscure.
The Root Causes, “To believe in change by just demanding zero tolerance is magical thinking. The whole system needs an overhaul or abuse and cover-ups will continue.
Since this will likely not happen, people will continue to leave until the truth becomes more and more obscure”.
And, the FBI investigation. That is not a small thing. “People will continue to leave until the truth becomes more and more obscure”. That is probably true. Really true statement. No denying it. The root causes.
Thank you for this. I wasn’t abused within the fellowship, but I was sexually abused by a non professing relative. It has taken a life time to finally become a Survivor! This has been personally devastating to me as I innocently thought abuse of any kind was not tolerated in the Truth!
Since this has all come to light, I have written down some thoughts on this abominable betrayal!
#1: Abuse (sexual or otherwise) is not them vs us, or male vs female.
It is as simple as the Truth! Right vs Wrong!
A perpetrator, is a perpetrator, is a perpetrator! There are no excuses or exceptions! If a perpetrator gets away with abuse once, that person almost always offends again. Most often becoming a serial pedophile, molester and/or rapist! The art of grooming and engineering opportunities, becomes second nature to them.
A victim, is a victim, is a victim! It is never what a child or person wears, says, or acts like, that attracts the perpetrator. It is opportunity and venerability.
The perpetrator uses 1st contact to make the victim feel that it was somehow their fault because of the way the victim dresses, talks or behaves. The perpetrator counts on their Victims being: ashamed, under threat, not to be believed, and believing they are the only victim.
If people are willing to take the perpetrator’s “word for it” and/or that person’s version of events, instead of the victim’s, Justice (Lawfully or Morally) will not be done!
#2: Thoughts on Abuse
Agree that all Human lives/Souls are priceless? Then you must view each Human life/ Soul as of equal value! God does! Jesus does! The Bible tells us so many times!
So why are some Overseers, Elders and fellows treating unworthy abusers as more valuable than their victims?
If you believe that abuse of any kind toward anyone is justified, excusable, or forgivable, then you are an enabler and an empoweree of the abuser. Otherwards: Aiding & Abetting! There is a difference between Forgiveness and enabling!
Abusers (sexual or otherwise) will almost always re-offend! As they leave their victims Spiritually, socially and mentally bankrupt, the abuser is often creating more predators like him or herself.
If an abuser truly seeks forgiveness, then that person is willing to admit his/her wrong and accept the consequences! Spiritually, morally, and criminally, socially, and financially!
Abusers and their enablers are not willing for the true and rightful consequences, because of the cost to their own Spiritual, moral, lawful, social, and financial status!
This happens time and time again, with No consequences to these Criminals or their enabler(s). Meanwhile those who are suffering the consequences of these actions are paying the price over and over. Affecting their lives, spiritually morally and lawfully, socially, and financially!
How much more valuable is the human life/ Soul? I think we all know the answer!
Hoping this explanation will help more of us understand the dire consequences of the abuse that has gone unchecked within our Ministry and fellowship and why it must be stopped!
These truths hurt. These abominations and their cover up never occurred to most of us. We just do not think like that! Let us be a part of the solution and take back what these morally bankrupt people have tried to take from us!
“Walk in the light as Jesus walks in the light.” Your sister in truth
Elaine
What’s the excuse given when another worker is found out to be a child sex predator? Oh, they are just a Judas. First, how many children did Judas sexually molest that is accounted for in the Bible? Second, why are excuses even needed? Third, isn’t the sexual abuse of a child about as low as human depravity gets?
This letter by Natalie and Ben is very sound. These two are professionals in the field that they are speaking of. What they have to say should be respected and at the least, considered. They note the statistics, “Just in the past two weeks, the names of 5 workers having credible allegations of child sexual abuse have been brought to light, bringing the total number of identified perpetrators to approximately 840 (40% of these are/were workers)”.
In the last two weeks before they wrote this letter FIVE new names, five unknown sexual predators that are workers were uncovered! Five workers that are child sex offenders in two weeks! These people are not just a “Judas”, these are people operating within a system that is accommodating these predators and creating an environment that is favorable to their twisted lifestyle.
Natalie and Ben show there’s approximately 840 sexual predators that have been identified. That number is huge. That amount of people would fill an average size convention! And that is just the predators identified. The number of predators not identified could easily be twice the number than those known, or more. The identified sexual predators are those that have been exposed from a witness willing to come forward.
As this letter notes, “The average age for disclosure of child sexual assault is 52 years of age, and 86% of CSA goes unreported”. Statistics are important if for no other reasons than telling us what we don’t know. This statistic is saying the sexual predators won’t be known until long after the sexual assault, if ever. Most, the vast majority of sexual assaults, will never be reported.
Why are sexual assaults not reported? The age of the victim, being young and unsure of themselves and the predator being much older and often a respected person and a person who would not be suspected. The victim feels shame from the event. In the fellowship the church culture does not reported such events. The victim in many cases blames themselves.
Workers that are sexual predators that have not been exposed yet are out there. Workers trolling porn on the Internet, and there are many, even though never having a problem with child sexual activity in the past, are vulnerable. Your home WiFi should allow you to check what websites were accessed by each IP address that was connected to, if anyone cares to check out what websites workers were on during their visit.
The numbers are telling us that there are more than just a Judas out there. There is instead an entire culture that has, and is supporting a criminal element that is not going to go away.
Just another Judas?- Exactly! For true change the culture of the group needs to change.Those upright meeting folk as Natalie and Ben are going upstream, they are fighting against the culture.Splits have happend and are happening in this group for good.
I anticipate a small % hanging on to their comfort zone at the end, the bigger % will leave.
Louise, I agree.
“I anticipate a small % hanging on to their comfort zone at the end, the bigger % will leave”.
@not another Judas. You are not the first to post about the comparison between Judas and the present subject of child molesters. The general conclusion of these posts is Judas wasn’t near as bad. I wonder what Jesus thinks about these observations. We are talking about the man who betrayed him into the hands of those who eventually put him on the cross. Do we really believe we could do something worse than betraying the Son of God?
@Amen
Yes! I really think you could and have done just as bad. Not you personally because I do not know who you are but the 2×2 system.
If you believe that deceiving people and trying to put a cost on what Jesus has died so that we can receive freely is not betrayal something is wrong.
Tell me how this meeting is honouring God. A system of lies, SA, CSA, psychological abuse and cover-ups.
Look up the seven things that God hates and lies practically show twice.
Judas was a deceiver and the many of the workers have deceived people by living a double life.
They abuse and then get in conventions and gospel meetings and preach. If some of them didn’t abuse, many kept quiet about it.
They could never believe what they are preaching and go on to deceive like that continuously.
Here is the basis of the Cognitive Behavioural Model. Beliefs affects thoughts, emotions and behaviour.
In addition beliefs come from our environment. All of these pedos do what they do because the 2X2 environment has made them believe that they are superior and would never be held accountable. That is until now!
Some people behave differently in meetings because they have a different belief.
Do not assume that just because everyone one gathers together they have exactly the same beliefs or convictions.
This is where the Judas part comes in. Some people are just good at playing the part.
The meeting deceived many by giving them a false sense a security, in a false way through a false gospel.
“Those who bear false witness,” is one of the seven things that the bible tells us God hates.
I cannot think of a better example of false witnesses right now. You are suffering from a serious case of cognitive dissonance.
@Nicky your response started with saying you don’t know me so you couldn’t say whether I had done something as bad, but then you ended by saying i was suffering from a serious case of cognitive dissonance. From those statements do you not see there is some inconsistencies in your thinking and stated beliefs?
@ Just another Judas
I agree with your writing.
Judas liked the money – and it certainly appears like there are those in command of the church that like to have command over the money that is not theirs in a sense.
People run into problems when they get their eye on, then their hand on, money that belongs to another, especially when there are no checks and balances. Some also run into problems when the children they get their eye on do not belong to them. And when I talk about the children, there is this relatively large group that got their lusts working overtime with sexual desires of children, then the larger group that thought such was ‘cool’ but the concept needed to be hidden…then there is also the workers and some elders that developed their lust for spiritual fornication with God’s children. They lusted after being the only ones having spiritual intercourse with the hearts and minds of the people. They justified their desires and actions under the covers with the Bride by saying the Bridegroom was such a good guy. To me, that number is a multiple of the qty 800 of sexual predators within the church preying on the vulnerable children within the church. At this moment in time after 14 months of no traction by the brave ones trying to make a difference…that math to me comes out to every single one of the workers. This is at least the optics of it to me.
Then as far as Ben and Natalie being professionals in their field, some would think the workers would listen up and pay attention. Here is the wrinkle though as I see it. Those in the religious world that think they have such great command in the spiritual realm (something has convinced them of such and because they have never been challenged in their thinking, this notion builds and strengthens in a man’s heart and mind over time) will say ‘piffle’ to those that have good grasp of what they speak of.
Here is my thought for what it is worth. I am getting a sense of this from reading about the messages to the churches in Revelation. There were those people and notions within the church that needed to be dealt with in all the churches. So one message was, if you people are not willing or able to deal with it, the Holy Spirit said that He would come and deal with in no uncertain terms. Having the candle removed may be the result.
Another thing that appears clear to me in this matter is that the people in the church have very little power to rid the church of the cowboys riding herd over the people. These cowboys have become very powerful – powerful enough to hold sway over the vast majority of the church members and all the workers and many elders on the lower rungs of the enterprise. So there is only one option in this matter as I see it. The true members that care about this matter and have a longing for truth will have to be the ones that do the separating.
So at this time, the cowboys as I see it have full control over the workers, even those that mean well, the ones that care, and the ones trying their best. But they are all under a spell. Can the spell be broken?
And because these dudes have full control over the workers, then the mass of the church are following that lead.
Could it be, the ones that care will have to separate themselves in courage to continue in fellowship apart from those that are paying allegiance to and bowing down to the enterprise of religious control?
Then the remainder, including all the workers at this time, that incidentally seem to lack courage or bravery to make a stand, will see part of the church backing away and having fellowship together. It will then give the true workers enough courage to make a choice and back away with them. The ones that are hiding behind the fig leaves of religious enterprise? Peeling off the fig leaves will be too frightening to them.
And the remainder? The remainder that likely will be a majority of the group? They will continue to have feathership together, paying allegiance to, bowing down to, honoring, having faith in, having belief in, respecting, sheltering and supporting religious enterprise and its proxies. There will be organic guile in their feathership because truth in/of the spiritual realm will not be of much concern to them. They have no time for such things as they cannot perceive the spiritual with their temporal senses. There is two ways to interpret the saying “We are here for a good time, not a long time”.
The vast majority will love to remain in the great city of religious enterprise. The courageous few will make the trek to the new house being built on the hill. There has to be a certain group of workers that will be seeing through the physical predation and spiritual fornication with the church members. Through the courage shown by the brave members, a certain number of workers will follow that lead. The grip of the enterprise right now is strong, and definitely a herd effect is pushing the people along. It is definitely easier for those on the fringes of the herd to split. Otherwise, those in the center of the herd will have to keep moving along or get trampled. They have to keep their nose pointed toward the rump in from of them.
And the interesting point of this to me? The ones caught in the flow of the center of the herd being pushed along? They will have some philosophical statements about the ones that were on the ‘fringes’. The philosophical (that they call spiritual enlightenment) bawling will come most profound from the center of the herd. At this point, their religious philosophy makes me smile. I for one am not finding any enlightenment in trampling through the manure of the herd going before and beholding with all my senses the future supply of rump roasts.
But the herd will finally stop for the night. The cowboys will get weary. The thinking ones in the herd will have a chance to move to the fringes. Those are the ones that have a sense of the market at trails end. Something does not feel right to them. The others? Oblivious! It must be such a state of sweet comfort and joy to be fully surrendered to the enterprise of religious endeavors at this time. It must be bliss to have that kind of faith in the perceived infallibility of the enterprise of spiritual cattle ranching.
The choice will be for each to make. Does a person derive their joy and satisfaction from feathership? Or does a person need true fellowship with intellectual and spiritual discourse to bring meaning to their life? Some just get plain bored with sitting on the couch soaking up netflix and popcorn. They have to get up and accomplish something for goodness sake.
Does a person think like the goose that thinks the farmer that has fed them every day is really their best friend and will feed them again tomorrow? This will not be the thought of the plucky though. Those people will come to understand their clipped spiritual wings can be repaired to rise above the feed lot or barnyard – and with effort and searching they can feed themselves. They get the vision of the gathering around the golden colored goose on the table, albeit cooked. “Wheresoever the carcass of the cooked goose lies, ………”
And to those that do not like the essays on Wings? I am so very sorry that you grieved over reading this and got to this point in my writing and I wasted your time. You could have stopped at the top when you saw the length of this writing. To those, I suggest you just go with the catchiest religious campaign slogan that lines your pockets the best – go with that and cast your vote. For sure you can’t be wrong in your thought. You will come to know though whose interest your fearless leader had in mind.
Amen never fails to miss the point and always throws cover for the child sexual molesters. And, Amen has compared Judas to the child sex molester workers.
There was one Judas. Dr. Natalie and psychologist Ben wrote, in the last two weeks before they wrote their letter FIVE new names, five unknown sexual predators that are workers were uncovered! This is in addition to the approximately 840 sexual predators that have been identified, with 40 percent of them being workers! That would mean about 336 workers that are known sexual predators! Over 300 workers that are KNOWN sexual predators!
As the above post notes, “The numbers are telling us that there are more than just (one very bad person) out there. There is instead an entire culture that has, and is supporting a criminal element that is not going to go away”. Elders, like Amen, will never understand that, while the overseers fully support this culture that produces an ongoing supply of the criminals.
Louise is right in stating, “I anticipate a small % hanging on to their comfort zone at the end, the bigger % will leave”. The small percentage will also continue to cover-up unfathomably, for the child sexual predators. This will define them as a group.
@at who they are. Hard to know your track record since you change your moniker quite frequently. I won’t try to defend all the mistakes you attribute to me, suffice to say I do think very differently than many posters. You miss the point on my comments on Judas. Jesus chose 12 disciples to tell the people about Himself. Yes he,Judas betrayed his master. One of 12 is just over 8%. So what should we expect to see today? I’m afraid it is very different from what we would like to see. We would like to see that every person who has ever been called by God, had Jesus begin a work in their lives would throughout their lives show forth the love and marks of Christ in their lives. I have no idea what the true numbers are today of those who begin, continue and finish vs those who do not. Is it 8% or is it 92% . One thing I am sure of is it is not 100%. But I am sure that He will remain faithful to any He has called, and He will faithfully prepare a bride for His son. The only question is will we remain faithful in the place He wants us to let Him finish His work.
The need to reassure yourself that “God is faithful” is an indicator that you may be overinvested in a sketchy religious franchise. Take a step back and ask, is God likely to be more concerned about the reputation of preachers, or the well being of children?
And the “only question” is not whether “we will remain faithful in the place He wants us.” I don’t know what the “only question” is, but I could suggest few that would present more of a challenge to a person’s conscience.
Wisconsin Overseer Glenn Gasser wrote to the “Friends” on March 29, 2023 (posted on Wings) that ” …. the apostles were very shocked & ashamed when Judas’ secret sin came to light. His sin didn’t mean they were all dishonest, but likely they bore some reproach because of it. Though they weren’t perfect, the 11 & others proved to be true men & God used them to help accomplish his purpose through the book of Acts”. Overseer Gasser was referring to one Dean Bruer, not 8% of the overseers and workers. The Cult tends to change the narrative to fit their spin as time passes.
If only 8% of the “workers” maybe child sex molesters that is is a lot of child sex molesters coming and going to the members homes for overnight visits. Your odds of getting someone who is not what you think they are is pretty good. And, over time, your odds are 100%. That’s what make the ministry living with the membership such a bad concept. There are just to many risk.
It was well said, “Take a step back and ask, is God likely to be more concerned about the reputation of preachers, or the well being of children?”. That question would seem to have an easy answer, like a lot of other questions that exist for the workers, and the group they are leading in general. When people defend the sex predators, and compare their twisted acts to a two timing cheat like Judas, it’s obvious there’s a large group of people that want to live with complete denial of the facts that are right in front of them.
Comparing the sin of a child sex molester to a person that is a traitor, or committed treason, does not make the child sex molesters okay. Also, the man that committed treason, later realized the wrong he committed and hung himself. The child sex molesters don’t seem to have any remorse, or shame and in many instances attempt to downplay what they did. While the innocent child involved has a cluster of shameful feelings including humiliation, helplessness, and self-doubt. Many times for life.
The argument goes, if one out of twelve workers is a “Judas”, that’s not bad. Those odds, in my home? No thank you! There are just to many risk.
Mark S is so eloquent in his writing and such a joy to read from someone who is as experienced and intelligent as he is. It would be fun to have him tell of his life experience in a book form. He has much to say. And, we have much to learn from him.
He said, “Another thing that appears clear to me in this matter is that the people in the church have very little power to rid the church of the cowboys riding herd over the people. These cowboys have become very powerful – powerful enough to hold sway over the vast majority of the church members and all the workers and many elders on the lower rungs of the enterprise”.
Mark S is taking over here where ol’ Max left off, when he regretfully signed off for the last time. Mark S, though is stellar and I would implore him to keep going! Mark S is always point on!!!
Nicky no less is on fire! I would implore her to keep going as well! She’s absolutely delightful and right in stating,
“Do not assume that just because everyone one gathers together they have exactly the same beliefs or convictions.
This is where the Judas part comes in. Some people are just good at playing the part.
The meeting deceived many by giving them a false sense a security, in a false way through a false gospel.”
Nicky knows. Nicky is very good at understanding the basics principles and is able to verbalize them well. Nicky has been through experiences that give her credibility. Nicky was denied to be baptized! Nicky has been there!!!
Thank you Mark S for your continued eloquent writing and Nicky for just telling it like it is!
A Side Note: Thank You. Right-on! However, you put the “deceived part” in the Past Tense which is correct! – However, IT IS NOW “still on going”! The politics of it ALL seems ‘set’ for ALL systems — full steam ahead. Even the “Bolins” with their superior education and experiences are still ‘not able’ to read God’s Word as written by the very “Spirit of Christ”.(1 Peter 1:11- ;12); which is OUR Armour against the “wiles of the ‘devil” – Ephesians 6:11 – :17.
We appreciate their commitment and very deep concern and understanding of the very criminal and in-human, twisted – vile, criminal destruction of our little ones with CSA and SA with committed adults to God: who thereby thinking this is “all’ of God. We are so very Sorry, for the very deception by and of the very devil , himself. God help each one to actually read AND understand the very fulness of God. Try Acts 2:41 – :46; the very “doctrine” of Jesus Christ’s chosen disciples sent as Jesus very own ‘apostles’. And Acts 3:1 which confirms the 11’s actions immediately after Jesus’ in his resurrected body “ascended’ into heaven.
This is NOT ‘theology’: which theorize: but is JUST the very Word and record of God; for us mortals. Thank you for your deep concern and care for the “abused” and their “lack of Hope of the Risen Christ”.
Oh, we are so very thankful for Ephesians 2:4 – :9; :7 explains the Hope of us NOW is; :7 that in the ages to come HE – Christ might show the the ‘exceeding riches of His “”Grace”” in his kindness to us through Christ Jesus. All of Paul’s letters are OUR assurance of Christ’s Faith which justly gives God the righteousness to have Grace to ALL who JUST fully “believe” and trust.
Nicky, you are right on the mark, as your post are. You said, “You seem to be always trying to make excuses for the evil. The problem with people suffering from cognitive dissonance is that eventually they will have to face everything they are subconsciously or consciously trying to avoid accepting”.
You are correct. There is still a group of people who are trying to make excuses for the evil, or simply, completely ignoring that the evil even exists. These people exhibit traits of a psychopathic personality where they fail to have empathy or remorse for their actions, or actions that would warrant these feelings. The denial that has been shown is not what is acceptable in any group of humans, except for cults where abnormal activities become normalized and abuses are excepted.
@ Amen
There is no reply button by your comment.
There is no inconsistencies in my thinking and beliefs.
I was responding to the question you asked:
Do we really believe we could do something worse than betraying the Son of God?
My response:
Yes! I really think you could and have done just as bad. Not you personally because I do not know who you are but the 2×2 system.
I don’t know your works but I read your post and it is clear that you have a problem accepting the reality of the meeting and what’s happening in it.
You seem to be always trying to make excuses for the evil. The problem with people suffering from cognitive dissonance is that eventually they will have to face everything they are subconsciously or consciously trying to avoid accepting.
It is like smokers avoiding or twisting information about cigarettes causing cancer while trying to find positive statements about them in order to continue smoking.
@ Nicky sorry you think I am trying to excuse evil. I have certainly tried to explain why I think evil happens, why it would not happen if we are submitted to and under the control of Jesus. I have tried to explain through Jesus teachings as to why some will begin a fellowship with him but will eventually fall away and give into their fleshly desires, but no I am not trying to find excuses for the evil having said that I know that every human has committed evil, including you and me, but we can be thankful that there is a kind and merciful God, if we truly repent, which simply is to me saying your ways are right and my ways are wrong.
@Amen
I have replied to you with scripture from Paul where he said to remove the evil from among you. You said nothing!
It is like you are ignoring the biblical evidence when people post it while trying to find something inadvertently in defence of them.
The overseers are also guilty of ignoring scriptural evidence which says get rid of the evil.
You said: “I know that every human has committed evil including you and me.”
Are you trying to say that we are all on the same level as pedophiles, drug traffickers, rapists and murderers?
Why don’t you then invite the workers to your house, contact law enforcement for the the names of the most wanted and have a gospel meeting?
@nicky no I don’t respond to every post whether I agree or not. I have no problem with the scripture from Paul about getting rid of someone doing evil, I also don’t have a problem with what he said about welcoming them back when they have repented.
I am not trying to equate all evils, my only point is that each one of us have committed evils that would take us to hell without the mercy of God and the blood of Christ. I think we could sit down together and have a good conversation but all this hit and miss and I thought you meant or you didn’t respond is a poor substitute.
Nicky – most longtime readers of Wings know that the A-Man person appears to put up posts just to rile people up. For all we know, this person may not even be a cult member. Most have learned to ignore the comments from this person. Unfortunately, some believe that they get some sort of status if people respond to their outrageous posts. In addition, comments from the A-Man never provide any support to CSA/SA victims, which is what this site is for. In fact, the comments from this person have been very harmful for victims.
The points made by Bucky regarding amen are accurate. This individual is an attention seeker, meddlesome, and always a defender of child sexual molester workers. With the now known HUNDREDS of workers that have been found to be sexual molesters of children, this individual will consistently make the remark these men were called by God but “eventually fell away and give into their fleshly desires”.
God does not error. Further, it’s doubtful God would error 100’s of times to put evil men in the position so they are in the way of children, for the children to be sexual abused, many in their own homes! Where they should feel safest and be safest. It’s better to ignore this individual. He may speak for the cult members that have circled their wagons around the sexual molesters/ workers/ overseers. Let them listen to their leadership. Where their being lead, you don’t want to go.
Thanks! My husband told me that he suspected the same thing.
@Bucky
Thanks! It’s a bit sick to be doing such a thing.
@Attention seeking. You are getting into pretty dangerous territory when you state , God makes no mistakes. That God will not bring about a condition where a child molester can molest a child. Whose child are we talking about? All children are equally precious. Yes there is no question God could do it but it is obvious He is not. In the world every few seconds another CSA/SA occurs. Yes God could have prevented the Methodist church to not hire a predator as an assistant Scout master and send him out to molest a bunch of young boys, but He didn’t. He could have not had 2 pre-med students take a young bot on an adventure ha will never forget, but He didn’t. God could have prevented Josephs brothers from selling him into 13 years of slavery and prison when he was just a child of 17, one clear case of CSA in the Bible, but He didn’t. And when his father Jacob died and the brothers were fearful that Joseph would want to retaliate for all their evil, it is wonderful that God gave piece to Joseph and he told his brothers you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. Gods ways are not our ways, thankfully.
@ Amen
What a load of crap! This is why you keep saying that people must forgive pedos. The bible does not say that Joseph was SA.
This is your warped interpretation. They stripped him of his rainment and left him. Obviously, your mind went further.
Genesis 37: 18-24
18And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him.
19And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh. 20Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
21And Reuben heard it, and he delivered him out of their hands; and said, Let us not kill him.
22And Reuben said unto them, Shed no blood, but cast him into this pit that is in the wilderness, and lay no hand upon him; that he might rid him out of their hands, to deliver him to his father again.
23And it came to pass, when Joseph was come unto his brethren, that they stript Joseph out of his coat, his coat of many colours that was on him;
24And they took him, and cast him into a pit: and the pit was empty, there was no water in it.
Notice in vs 22 Reuben said lay no hand upon him. They took his coat.
When they went back to get him he was not in the pit.
If this is the scripture that you think supports and forgive pedos, you are dead wrong.
People really need to leave that false church because this is what I meant by people having different beliefs and convictions.
@ Nicky. And why did you leave out
28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.
@Amen
Genesis 37:28
28Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.
Where in that verse does it say or indicate SA? The answer is nowhere.
He was sold into slavery but God turned his misfortune into good fortune.
The midianites were in the business of buying selling. It does not say that they were SAs.
You are a sick person! Are you obsessed with SA? I don’t see how you can make such an assumption from this verse.
I am not wasting anymore time with you after this.
The key lesson here is that there is no rehabilitation for some people because they have been given over to a reprobate mind.
Romans Chapter 1.
Do not know why anyone continues to give people like the A-Man a platform. Most all comments nowadays on Wings DO NOT provide ANY support to CSA victims. Bucky is done with comments on Wings. They are triggering and depressing. Good Bye.
Bucky is right stating, “Do not know why anyone continues to give people like the A-Man a platform”. I will not go to that level again by responding to this foolish individual, or anyone like him (he says he is a him, but he sounds more like a nagging wife). The comments that continues to verbalize support for child molesters is not beneficial. I consider child molesters to be the very lowest level of the dark society we now live, and to try to defend these child molesters in any fashion, it’s sick and puts the defender on the same level as the molester. I am thankful I will never have to spend time with these depraved humans in any ” meeting ” ever again, because my seat will be an empty chair. Thank you God for helping me out that door for the last time.
The perverts of the cult says that was a “clear case of csa” when Joseph was sold into slavery? Can anyone imagine going to meeting and wasting your time and listening to foolish things that people say with absolutely no basis? That is also bondage for being forced to listen to complete ignorance.
This chapter in question unfolds the pivotal narrative of Joseph, the favored son of Jacob, whose brothers’ jealousy leads to his being sold into slavery in Egypt. It takes a cult defender of child sex molesters to turn Joseph into being trafficked for sex.
The insanity talked about by cult members here is the same things that are talked about on Sunday morning at meeting. Does any member wonder why they are really messed up? Listening to inept babbling?
@babbling
I would be what you call a “cult member” and have been so for over 60 years. I have heard preached and read myself a number of times Joseph’s story and can say that I have never, repeat never heard or felt that it had anything to do with CSA. You need to take what is said here sometimes with “a grain of salt” and realize that no one speaks for all. They can only speak for themselves.
This being said, I agree with the feelings, sentiments, and concerns over how this fellowship has handled CSA allegations and convictions and champion the need for change and transparency and the needful separation of members to unite on that front.
@ talk. Neither have I ever heard in the past that Joseph’s experience could possibly be categorized as CSA. But then I began to read how people are defining CSA, and it goes way beyond what I would ever dream of, and a lot of in is not sexual. Than I read of all the cases on this site which included all forms of abuse and had to conclude that the severe abuse Joseph suffered at his brothers hands would be classified as CSA. There was certainly no sexual part to it as we all know. Maybe we need to use a different term for childhood abuse that doesn’t evolve physical sexual abuse. That would be fine with me. Regardless of how we classify Joseph’s abuse, his story is in inspiration of how God works and helps the abused. And no it has nothing to do with perps, evil men but not perps.
WINGS NOTE:
According to Wiki…Child sexual abuse (CSA) is a form of child abuse in which an adult or older adolescent uses a child for sexual stimulation. Forms of child sexual abuse include engaging in sexual activities with a child (whether by asking or pressuring, or by other means), indecent exposure, child grooming, and child sexual exploitation, such as using a child to produce child pornography.
@ amen.
On the home page of this website it reads:
“FRIENDS…Voice your commitment to ridding the ministry and fellowship of CSA and to helping victims on the path to healing.”
This site is for the above purpose. It is not for the defence of the ministry or fellowship.
Sadly, Abuse happens in every generation and century but that is no defence or excuse for it to be happening here. Our fight must be in ridding these terrible assaults on our women and children during our day. It will be an ongoing battle for them and I’m sure God wants us in it.