Subject: Special Meetings
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 20:09:41 -0700
From: Mary Jo VanDermyden
To: Jennika Alexander; Joe Alexander; Sally Alexander; Lois Austin; Ken Beckman; Trude Bergh; Margaret Blair; Cortney Blanchard; Maja Boren; Scott Boswell; Virginia Boyd; Heather Boyd; Laura Brist; Brian Buckingham; Trisa Chavez; Jill Christianson; Pam Conrad; Richard DenHerder; Marilyn Denio; Shirley Doolittle; Dena Easley; Neil Evans; Kimberly Floyd; Ted Foster; Teri Foster; Brian Frandsen; Reta Fuhrman; Nate Galuza; Evelyn Gerlund; Debbie Gillette; Jeff Gillie; Andrea Gronley; Kara Grow; Ryan Grow; Brett Hammett; Heather Hansen; Susan Hansen; Mililani Hatada; Heidi Havlicek; Harold Hilton; Joyce Jackson; Craig Jacobsen; Monica Jantzef; Lily Kirschvink; Esther Layman; Lori Layman; Joe Layman; Robin Layman; Jath Lazaro; Jaime Lucero; Nhu Ma; Thien Ma; Brett Major; Mark Mannlein; Corlé May; Karleen McDowell; Edith Moreno; Lauren Morton; Dan Nejely; Rob Newman; David Olson; Donovan Olson; John Parish; Linda Passage; Marian Pitcher; Tiffaney Sandon; Barbara Stearns; Sara Stickland; Larry W. Taylor; Karen Tenniswood; Claudia Toppin; Lisa Vandenberg; Ronda Visser; Tamara Wagner; Bill Walker; Susan Weichert; Kent Williston; Jonathan Wright; Dick Wulf; Kelsay Yung; Robyn Hill;
(CA/AZ.NV staff)
Hi Sally, Kent, Harold, Rob, et al,
With special meetings coming up, I have the same question I had this last fall… are pedophiles, or anyone with allegations, welcome to the meetings?
If they are, I will not be attending.
If you want a safe environment, may I suggest:
Have Elder monitors at the doors of each meeting place with a list of all that have allegations of CSA or SA….
Have a plan for their removal….
Make each one on the list aware that if they violate these boundaries, there will be consequences….
Every special meeting needs to have the same, comprehensive list of perpetrators of evil….
In hope something will be done,
Mary Jo VanDermyden
WINGS Note: All email addresses have been redacted.
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This is an excellent list of suggestions Mary Jo! Healthy, consistent boundary setting is the only way to ensure a safe environment from known perpetrators. Now, if only the ministry would implement conscionable barriers…
why not call the schools public venues and explain the nature of the concerns you have and the liabilities associated with. Also schools are safe places and letting this group meet there with those violates the state statutes
I hope you get some replies. I’ve resent Kent Williston 12 soon to be 13 emails over the last 6 weeks or so basically asking why sexual abuse is less of an offense than divorce and remarriage. Also about the lack of unity from coast to coast and preaching unity is deluding people. I’ve gotten no response from him or Rob.
William Johnson
Not sure why cult members continue to go to the the workers for help with the CSA/SA crimes when in response to the recent Wings post regarding serial CSA offender Ernie Sharpe, it was said “Workers are trying to find a local meeting home where he’ll (Ernie) be permitted to attend.” Worker Karen Tenniswood’s own “Uncle Eldon” had CSA allegations – do not think she will stand for what is right, and probably none of the other workers listed will either.
Wanted to add, Worker Harold Hilton had a family member, Worker Dan Hilton that has numerous CSA/SA allegations. He has since died. Just trying to point out that going to the workers will not accomplish anything. That is one of the reasons God gave us two feet.
Harold has his head in the sand as he breaks in a new worker. What a shame for that worker. Hope he gets out. Harold please preach the gospel not cowboys stories. We are sick of them. If you knew of your uncles shortcomings you need to get our as well. That rich guy in Southern California is dead so no more Harold down there.
Could find no references in the Bible about cowboys, but there are plenty of topics about doing no harm to children in the Bible. Wonder if Worker Harold ever spoke on that topic? I only recall him speaking about cotton-tails, pig-tails, and football plays while reading his canned sermon from the platform.
Here in AK, the Elders vet any visitors. Maybe write also to the elders.
I am so impressed with the progress made in Alaska! Way to go!
We totally support this request 💯
Pat & Stephen Tackitt
Hello Pat Tackitt! This is Denise Doucette. I’m so glad to see you on here!
💕
Denise,
If you are on the CCF Platform please DM with me!
This sounds like a real edifying environment for learning about Jesus where it is necessary to have a naughty and nice list for entry!
…”are pedophiles, or anyone with allegations, welcome to the meetings?
If they are, I will not be attending.
If you want a safe environment, may I suggest:
Have Elder monitors at the doors of each meeting place with a list of all that have allegations of CSA or SA….”
When a religious group has so many sex molesters and pedophiles in it that a door monitor is needed to enforce “consequences “ if the pedophiles some how sneak in? Something is most definitely wrong with the group as a whole.
Throwing out these “suggestions” on how to stem the sexual abuse is like putting fingers in the holes of a life boat that is in a huge storm. This storm is not letting up and these frail suggestions of keeping the evil out will not help. There are people at the other end of the boat dumping water in the boat, letting any sexual predators that they can.
Can someone name me an environment where they would be no sexual predators? I can’t think of any! We are asking for Utopia here in this evil society. i am very very pessimistic that what would be an ideal place to bring children up in doesn’t exist. We have to do our best for them by them. We can’t leave it to others to protect them. We must be better and more vigilant at that ourselves. As parents and grandparents and care givers we need to teach them the dangers, have discussions with our precious ones and listen to them, let them know where they are safe and to speak up if they are uncomfortable around or with ANYBODY. Reassure them They Will Be Heard! We Will Listen! and We will act! Unfortunately we cannot, nor should we, rely on, or call on anyone else or anything else to protect them.
Remember 11 Tim 2:20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. Gill’s Exposition and Ellicott’s Commentary of this verse I pretty interesting if you look it up. (The gospel is like a net and brings in the evil with the good.)
I don’t think the issue is trying to find a safe place that has no sexual assault issues. I think we all realize that as long as there is human nature there will be evil in the world. However that does not absolve us of doing everything we can to keep ourselves and others safe. In many cases the workers have not accepted the word of survivors and have instead accepted the word of the individual for whom there are allegations. This has led to a situation where perpetrators find our fellowship to be an easy place to prey on the vulnerable and children.
Tom S. I absolutely agree.
Keepright advocates learning from Ellicotes commentary? Ellicote is a worldly preacher from back in the day. My mom and all the workers I knew always mocked worldly preaching and the church groups that they represented. From the platform at convention, a big name worker on the convention tour, openly made fun of a Christian music festival that was being held in a nearby town. Now, instead of citing what a worker said about the meaning of a portion of the Bible, a long dead man from a different religion is being held to a higher standard than the workers? He is being quoted and not them? Also, in “the way”, in Jesus way, how does that bring in evil? In “worldly Mainstream Christian churches” there is not widespread sexual abuse being reported other than some other extreme fundamentalist and Catholics, that have a celibate ministry. Mainstream Christianity doesn’t have door monitors, and also doesn’t have a rampant sexual abuse problem. Now Ellicotes commentary is being utilized. I remember when children’s Bible story books were even a bad thing. Times do change.
@Times are changing..There are about 800,000 sexual predators that are registered in America alone. And that does not include all the unregistered ones. One could pretty safely say that a very large percentage of them have had an affiliation with some “mainstream Christian” church in their history. To think otherwise is very naive. If one is in a large group setting, ( 200 or more ), I’m betting that there will be a predator amongst them..known or not known. That’s just statistics.
Keepright.
You are most correct. I agree wholeheartedly with you; there is likely no social environment sans sexual predators. And yes, we need to teach our children and grandchildren the dangers that lurk in the shadows.
But this organization we ‘belong’ to that calls itself The Truth and The Way [the names that belong to Another incidentally] has shown it believes the lies and alibis of the predators, and has railed against the abused and their supporters. That to me seems like a big pill to swaller for those that are conscious and awake. How do we come to terms with the ‘shadows’ in God’s Light when we declare to the world this is God’s only True Way?
I also agree with buddy Ellicott in the gospel bringing in the evil and the good. Couldn’t agree more. But I may add, religious enterprise for some deviant raison d’etre goes to bat for the devious and takes a bat to the abused and their supporters. There seems to be an affinity in the enterprise for the devious. Guile seems to come out smelling like roses. We are all sinners and have come short of the Glory of God – so thinking we will be a vessel of honor on our own human merit is teasing some delusion. However, thinking there will be die hard devious vessels of dishonor in His House? Me thinks another big pill to swaller.
@Tom Sikes -I would like to add, that our workers are not educated enough even with the scripture, to know that enablers and those who find it all hard to believe and want to just forgive and move on…are putting themselves in danger of Hell. Their ideas of how to “move on” are very dangerous, and completely against what we find in the Gospels. Yes, parents should be acting like good parents (paying attention, not allowing your children to be with any stranger without adult supervision – yes, the workers are strangers too, supervision should be like ‘hawk eyes’. Never assume, “oh they’re just playing”. If it looks odd – end it NOW! Never allow them to sleep in their own bedrooms with workers/strangers in your home…it’s camping time in Mom & Dad’s room!!
Keepright: These children have not BEEN PUT in an unsafe environment. And children by their nature in a normal family feel safe..! PUT this squarely on the shoulders of a very deceiving and deceitful ministry! There is NO PLACE in any house – great or humble – for a sexual pervert! Sorry, it is NOT OF God! God, the fisherman is not stupid!; All “fishermen” know FISH! The BAD fish are immediately thrown out of the NET! No, this is NOT of God. And is not ever going to be of God. Please STOP pretending it IS!
From what I can see Life Boat…. all the ships of religious enterprise that have exercised power and authority over the church(es) in the sea of humanity?…are taking on water at the present time. Many don’t seem to be concerned how the breach in the hull happened…they are just focused on bailing to keep the ship afloat.
But bailing and putting up bail is going to get tiresome to some me thinks. Maybe the Life Boat is a swell idea.
Keepright – I read that approximately 2% of the general population are sexual predators. There has been mention of a worker’s photo from a California convention where 14% of the men were/are alleged predators. So yes, statistically speaking, there are bound to be some evil people in the group. But to think that in this instance, the number of predators was seven times higher than the average is staggering. It certainly paints the picture that this isn’t a random occurrence.
It would be interesting to know if they let overseers who were a part of cover-ups come to these meetings and/or former workers that were accused perps. It’s only logical that an Overseer whose been one for over a year, was either part of or knew about (complicit) the cover-ups concerning being guilty of sending criminals (perps) all over to avoid the law. This resulted in more victims. Then to add to that, the shaming and silencing of innocent victims. How could an overseer know this, and then sit back doing “nothing” to try and stop such wicked evil “if” he stood for the righteousness of Christ? What category do they fit into when it comes to attending? I ask because I know of people who were put out of meeting because they had a TV, much less of an offence than enabling child molesting Monsters and protecting criminals from the law. I wonder what would happen if an Elder refused to let an overseer in because of this? Is Overseer worship being put above Jesus’ righteousness?
Exactly!
This letter is “to” a whole bunch of people. Most of these people are not in the chain of command, who make up what the decisions on any given subject will be. Finally the letter is actually written to four specific people. Two of these people are Harold and Rob.
It was not long ago that Harold and Rob were gathering elders together in an attempt to get confessed pedophile, ex-worker Gilbert Smith, back in meetings with kids.
Also, these guys wrote about their “summer of encouragement “ stating, “For those who have felt uncomfortable to be in our gospel meetings, we would like say that we miss you, we love you, and consider you part of our spiritual family.
We want to encourage everyone to please come to special meetings, where, at the throne of grace, there is help and strength to overcome the daily strife”.
There wasn’t any mention of a list of bad guys that should stay away. In fact there wasn’t any mention of bad guys. Just that grace was needed.
This latest letter from a friend states, “I have the same question I had this last fall… are pedophiles, or anyone with allegations, welcome to the meetings?
If they are, I will not be attending”.
It’s obvious that there was no answer last fall to this question. Now the question is being asked again? Why? It seems that the answer is clear that pedophiles have been welcomed into the meetings, and will be in the future. It is not to fault anyone for asking this legitimate question, it’s just that there are not going to be any legitimate answers.
To Grace is Needed,
So an over seer wrote this? “We want to encourage everyone to please come to special meetings, where, at the throne of grace, there is help and strength to overcome the daily strife”.
Lord help us! We are a deluded people! We are trying to come to an understanding of the root of the issue of why the leaders of the religion have insisted on buffering those that take and have taken advantage of innocent children and the vulnerable, but conversely consistently buffet the abused, downtrodden, forsaken and disenfranchised; not to mention the gangster approach to those that have stood up for truth to be known and in defense of the abused within the dark recesses of religious enterprise.
People! Is it not coming clear to some?! The enterprise that has succumbed to the deviance of the beast that was, and is not, and yet is ….. just might be the root of the problem. It’s a very deep root that all religious enterprise has sprung from; but we didn’t see it. The beast was not perceived …but does one not begin to understand that we have taken the bait and fallen into the trap? – religious enterprise has convinced the people that the cowgirl that is saddled on the beast is the Throne of Grace.
Lord, please enlighten those that feel the enterprise is their ticket, and in some shape or form believe there needed to be an intermediary between the Bridegroom and the Bride of Christ. Can we not see the dichotomy of who and what the enterprise is going to bat for versus who we believe the Mind of Christ intercedes for? I am getting a sense that the Bridegroom is telling us in a still small voice [paraphrased in my present day lingo for clarity] “y’all have fiddle-farted and played hankie-pankie with my Bride long enough”. The rodeo could soon be over in the big scheme of things. We will come to know. May I quote some prophetic words recorded from the Holy Spirit – “Come out of her My people?” May I also add a few more resounding words “the candle will go out and the voice of the Bridegroom will be heard no more in thee”. You can’t say He did not forewarn us that there would come an unsavory day.
But up to y’all. If you want to roll the dice and bet on the enterprise, I am over it. But the cowgirl’s objective and mandate is to screw you. Stimulating thought, no?
Friends and laborers – keep your faith in Him. And don’t even hold back 1% of it for something else. Something else that will end, and we will be separated from, when the lid goes down on our own little day.
are you to worker who left the work recently?
went home with your parents for awhile and decided to leave the work.
to No Confidence – I assume your question is to Mark S about leaving the work?
No, I was never a worker and never had any authority in the church. I did ponder the call of the harvest field when young, like many young folks do I think, but I never felt I was cut from the right material. My rough edges I did not think would fit in well and have surmised over the passage of time that others would have agreed with that assessment. I did respect the place of the elder and the worker though – it was just never me.
And my parents are passed on for some time.
So, another messenger you are thinking of.
Regarding every man a liar writes to Mark S., “ But just to emphasize that what we read may be true on the surface, but not coming from a place of truth in the heart”.
Every man a liar, you write about what is “truth in the heart” of another person? You sound like a long time “professing person”, or even like a worker. Self righteousness is a strong point for you. And the uncanny ability to give perfect judgement on others as to what is in their heart. Not yourself, in your heart, but others and their inmost thoughts and places.
Leave Mark S and his view points alone. Those insights are valid and relevant. If you want to express yourself on a topic that is being presented, that would be great.
Please refrain from commentary regarding judging others. All of us who are associated with “the way “ have had to deal with judgement, a lot of judgement, and judgement is not what we need. Thank you for your time.
Mark S, thank you for being real. When I say real, I mean how you are being God. Genuinely being honest and not putting up a false front just for the sake of others.
Growing up, as a small child, my mom would see the workers pulling up in the driveway and would tell me to distract them while she got on a dress and put her hair up. She would then come out of her bedroom saying she had been taking a nap.
I learned very early in life that everything was all about appearance. Lying was fine. The workers were to be feared and treated like Gods.
Mark S, you said, “The enterprise of religious power and authority encourages it’s followers to cover up with the fig leaves. Don’t show your true self, don’t live honestly. You have to look the part! Make people believe you are something you are not. Cover up and do not show people your rough edges. Ya gotta be smmmoooottthh. I am done with that”.
I agree with that statement 100 percent! The words that you wrote are the words that anyone would want to say that is in the “system “ if they were going to be honest with themselves. The trouble is, many people are not honest with themselves and they are not willing to admit it.
The freedom that comes with throwing off the shackles of dishonesty, of tearing down the false front, allows for the ability to be able to build a strong foundation and what is actually truth and not just a false name for a group of people that you so adeptly call, the enterprise.
Mark S, keep speaking the truth. It’s refreshing to others.
Mark S, my last comment had a typo! I wrote, “Mark S, thank you for being real. When I say real, I mean how you are being God. Genuinely being honest…”
I meant to say, “Mark S, thank you for being real. When I say real, I mean how you are being real before God…”
Continuing on with this point, God sees all and due to the fact that we can’t hide anything from God, we are all real before God all the time whether we like it or not. You can hide your flaws from the workers, but you can’t hide them from God. And, just to note, the workers are NOT God.
Tom Sikes, Thank you for expressing your well thought out and honest reply to KeepRight. I appreciate your thoughts.
thank you for listing the workers in alphabetica order by last name instead of by rank. A breath of fresh air even in that.
Julielynno, you noted, “thank you for listing the workers in alphabetica order by last name instead of by rank. A breath of fresh air even in that”.
Listing all these names is good because now ALL these people have been given public notice. People can hold each person named accountable.
At the end of the day though, the names listed are just that, listed names. And nothing more. Even the names of the people who are actually the big players and can really initiate change. It doesn’t matter that the names are listed, because the system is set.
The hierarchy will not change. The people in charge will not change. The leadership’s thinking will not change. This is the system. And the system is set.
Mary Jo – I think it is SO telling, when things I have been screaming from the roof-top, end up being a similar thought that someone else has! God is telling us something. I started asking Cynthia for a list very early on, knowing we would need legal backing to be able to post it somewhere. It’s actually ready, but with all the new victims coming forward, she just hasn’t had time to get it finished. It will include all those who have pled guilty or been charged (many have been incarcerated more than once for the same type of crimes). I’m not sure if those “credibly accused” will be allowed on the list or not, but in time their names can be added. That’s why I have pushed for one that can be updated once or twice a week, so that Convention owners can ask for ID before entering their private property, Elders can access it before their meetings on Sunday’s or at Special Meetings, any with meeting on Wednesday nights can access it before Bible Meeting…especially in case there are any from out of town. But, I am pushing for it to be open to ALL, because parents need to know who their children are visiting or around. However, it is in no way a guarantee that EVERY predator is listed. We only know about the ones their victims have turned in!
People! IF you are at ANY function with these friends, and have NOT been notified of every predator being allowed, please do everyone a favor and report that incident to the FBI – complete with Rob/Kent whoever’s the overseer, the name of the one responsible for the special meeting at your location, the Elder or Bishop’s name if it’s in a home. This IS stuff the FBI wants to know about. Are these overseers lying to them about keeping predators out of our meetings where there’s the POSSIBILITY of children being present (like, even if someone is passing through on vacation, or only there half the year, or their grandchildren come with them). There are charges that can be leveled against those who coddle predators. While lying about “helping the victims”.
There’s a TON of scripture to back throwing the predators out, but NONE to throw out those who stand against it, parents, grandparents, or concerned citizens.
For quicker results: call the location where the Special Meeting is to be held, and tell them about the FBI investigation, and give them this link, because it has the hotline number: https://forms.fbi.gov/2×2 and let the location know, that they will NEED to have law-enforcement present so that they can protect any children who might be attending or those who should be walking past or playing on a playground there or near by. I promise, it works like lighting :-) Speaking from experience.
Henoffour, you noted, “There’s a TON of scripture to back throwing the predators out…”. At this point, over a year after the Dean Bruer debacle coming to light, and the overseers still are doing their best to keep the sexual predators around.
Mark Twain said, “No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot “. By this time, everyone still trying to make changes like you are, you have to know that you’re dealing with idiots. I’m sure this is not news to you; the overseers trying to reintegrate the sexual predators back into the church group are idiots. That’s obvious.
I realize it’s been a year, and still, they are allowing the predators to dictate their thoughts. The focus is not on ‘will we forgive’ it should be on, what is the predator doing to SHOW they are making things right. Step #1 – have they turned themselves into law-enforcement? if they are not willing for this step – it means there’s no remorse. That’s a fact. So, let’s see the workers start with Step #1!!!
to Not News
I personally think that the likes of Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, Yogi Berra, Einstein and many others could actually add some substance to some gospel meetings that end up being but chaff by one or the other worker. Someone on Wings made the comment that a certain worker quoted Winnie the Pooh. Now I am not sure what the quote was, but if Winnie the Pooh had something enlightening to say, I would listen. Just my opinion.
About 7 years or so ago in Ontario where I live, two sister workers sat at my table. I loved them both and believed they cared. I asked them both if they really went to the Holy Spirit to get something for their gospel meetings. I am fairly confident this was a somewhat new question to them. For all I know, a worker’s thought process being challenged is likely outside of their perceived job description. Being challenged in their thinking is not something they are accustomed to and most likely think they should not be challenged by the lower echelons of the people.
Nevertheless, with a number of seconds of ruminating, they felt they did. So, I subsequently began to feel more keenly what was coming forth from their message and life. The one young sister worker, if I was not then biased in my perception, increasingly poured out her soul in the meetings. As the meetings went on, the increased outpouring of the spirit from her would have had no uncertain effect on those that were awake sitting there. The older sister worker? She was the same person as before – and believe she used the platform in front of my friends and peers to correct me. Never mind, I still love her.
The younger sister worker? Left the work. Not saying anything about all that because I don’t know anything more than she got married. But, that was a girl that poured out her soul in love and care. It softens my heart when I think of her heart.
And so it goes. The normal result of a human being not being challenged in their thinking as they go through life will result in that person thinking their poo does not stink. They imply by their words and actions that they feed only on roses. Now do we see why there is a state of paralysis with the enterprising ones in the group – that seem to be gnawing their tongues for pain? They have flipping never been challenged before! They are at a loss? And because the challenge came fast and furious, they were caught on the hind foot – they did not know which direction to shoot first.
It reminds me of the soldier’s letter home to his mountain mum – he said ‘the commander told us to shoot at Will today – I didn’t know which one was Will, so I didn’t shoot’.
On Sunday I was taken to task by one of the friends or workers in Ontario. It was either someone in Ontario or another that knows me from across Canada. They wrote that I might have written truth on the paper, but there may have not been truth in my heart. This brother (or sister’s) challenge to me was welcomed – and it made me smile. I was made richer on Sunday. The spanking felt good. The day we accept a challenge to our thinking is the day we are made richer. Providing we ruminate on it. And no, don’t believe the enterprising individuals when they say a challenge to your thinking (religious notions?) is the voice of the beast. They may not realize that there may be guile in their own words. They may have succumbed to a challenge in their own head. You see, the beast does not like to be challenged.
Mark S, a very provocative writing piece and much appreciated.
…”The day we accept a challenge to our thinking is the day we are made richer. Providing we ruminate on it. And no, don’t believe the enterprising individuals when they say a challenge to your thinking (religious notions?) is the voice of the beast. They may not realize that there may be guile in their own words. They may have succumbed to a challenge in their own head. You see, the beast does not like to be challenged”.
I vividly remember my dear old mom, a great “professing” lady, wore a dress with her hair up as long as friends and workers were around, but otherwise, no. She drank alcohol and at one point carried a bottle in her purse. She took stuff that was not hers and taught her kids to do the same. She was the chief grape on the gossip vine. She would lie when it was convenient, but she was a good professing woman going to all the meetings.
After I got married my new wife had a necklace with a small heart the dangled on the end. She really liked the necklace because she had received it from a sister at a special time. My mom said she could have the heart made into a pin and wear it that way, but it would not be appropriate to wear as a necklace. My wife asked what difference did it make if it was a necklace or a pin? My good professing mom said, “if you keep asking questions, you will question yourself right out of the truth”.
Challenge your thinking, is a correct answer. It’s not the “beast”, it is called truth. Sometimes the truth send you out of the “truth”, and at the same time, set you free to live and listen God.
To Challenge.
I may not have made myself clear to you in my last four sentences. I have been told that sometimes I do not make myself clear. I believe it. I am trying harder to understand how my speech and writing can be interpreted by another person versus how it is formulated in my own mind.
Nevertheless, I am not suggesting in any way that challenging ‘our own thinking’ is not the better path. This is called critical thinking – something the religious and political worlds does not encourage their followers to have. In fact, those worlds discourage critical thinking for a very good reason. And to many people, even thinking causes undue burden to them; so getting the vote of the brain that is in neutral is eazy-peezy.
What I tried to convey is the individual that is discouraging critical thinking and says that any challenge to theirs or their followers cherished religious notions is listening to the voice of the beast and need to stop their ears. The beast itself, in my understanding has taken control of their mind – and they do not perceive. They subsequently are instrumental in moving their followers away from the search for truth. Truth will be detrimental to the enterprise and the brand. They are not really interested in their followers digging for the pearl of great price. They are on a different mission. Someone called the brand ‘The Truth’ and we are paying the price for taking Someone else’s name. If we did not perceive that He was jealous of His Name … maybe now it is clicking in … to a few at least.
About 3 years ago I started to ask people as I journeyed along “what is truth?” It was becoming evident to me since 2016 that truth was a very elusive matter to the religious and political worlds and minds. To many of the meeting goers, I was met with blank stares when I asked. “Buddy, you walk in truth and you are asking me what truth is?” It was a very interesting mix of responses. To some in the meetings, they looked at me like I was the reincarnate of Pilate, and one time I got a bit of a pummeling for asking such a ‘strange’ question.
But alas, I decided to ask a neighbor one day when he came to my door for some help with something. I knew he was a Roman Catholic and had actually had inspiration to go into the clergy at one time. I said to him, “What is truth? Is the bible all truth?” I thought I may have been kind of baiting him. His response kinda set me back on my heels – he was not supposed to give me such an answer. Ready? He said, “I believe the words of Jesus are true.”
I am not saying in any way the Romans (just to try to make myself clear) didn’t have some ulterior motives in controlling man’s mind. The Roman priests and the historian Eusebius, under the direction of Emperor Constantine in the third century I dare say, had a leading hand in the quagmire that the faces the meeting folk today. I know – it will hurt many people’s head to think about it. And you can bet your bottom dollar, if you ask one of the enterprising individuals, they will say “Rubbish – don’t listen to that stuff”. Oh well. People gotta go where they gotta go.
So, is Gilbert Smith back attending meetings or not? Where is Mark Huddle? Truitt Oyler, is he still kept out of meetings?
And where can we see this list of people to watch out for?
May want to add Reynolds and Corfield and may others to the list. One needs to watch out for almost anyone these days, especially those in this group.
Deanna, great questions about Gilbert Smith and the others. It should be assured that these guys have been kicked out and that they are never allowed back.
That is the problem. Common sense doesn’t prevail. While common sense has watch over the front door, some head workers are fishing around to get their way at the back door.
Like Wings For Truth posted about Gilbert Smith, “The Sunday morning elders for the 11 meetings were invited (no wives, no union elders or Wednesday night elders) by Rob Newman and Richard Denherder to discuss a known and personally admitted CSA perpetrators readmission into fellowship meeting (Gilbert Smith).
They were told that while (Gilbert Smith) has admitted to (some) of his abuse, that a 4 hour phone assessment was done, and he had passed (assessed as no longer a risk)”.
The overseers are actually quite blind. There will always be a question about what they are doing, because what they’re doing goes contrary to common sense.
Are the predators back in meetings? That is a very good question. I would say ask Rob, Richard or Harold, but then again they are the ones at the back door. They are moving in the shadows to see how to get the predators back in. And it’s doubtful they would ever give you a straight answer.
I don’t think it’s because the overseers are blind…they are choosing ignorance, and allowing their buddies who are rapists and pedophiles to control their emotions, and are NOT following scripture. It’s very simple. They have had a full year to get educated on this subject, and have chosen to sit like a bump on a log and do nothing.
How is anything good being accomplished by the assertion that there is a list. It seems widely accepted that there is a list with “hundreds” of suspicioned perpetrators yet it can’t legally be shared, it isn’t ready yet (we’ve heard this for 9 months!), the completely trustworthy people (why are we suddenly so trusting?) who have the list are too busy adding to the list to share it, etc, etc…This makes no sense! And this list that can’t be shared is supposed to be used to vet people attending a public meeting in a public place? If the true goal was protection and prevention, it would be recognized that creating fear of thousands of innocent people is not accomplishing that. And now, young, sincere sister workers (who are our family and friends) are supposed to be met at the door of special meetings by the local police who have been called out in force?? This is absurd. Meanwhile, consider how our children’s daycare provider, teacher, little league coach, babysitter, neighbor, friend’s parent, or youth pastor may have had someone in their past “credibly accuse” them of something, and we (and any church they choose to associate with) have absolutely no way of knowing that if it was not handled in the legal system. I believe we are far safer attending special meetings than just about anything else we can do with those 5 hours.
@Where? – You are sowing seeds of doubt that a list is in existance. If you would like to ask about anyone on the list (there’s actually 2), or that there is one ready to publish, just call Advocates For The Truth. They are some of the nicest and most helpful people. To help this “make sense”…There are exactly THREE volunteers trying to handle all this, and keeping everything legal. Every victim calling in, must be fully listened to, gently questioned, and then a help found and an advocate assigned, and if they are able, directing them to law enforcement where the offence has taken place, and then if they can, sending them to the FBI…and Cynthia MUST figure out which state the crime took place in, so she can delve into that particular state’s laws (because they are all different), so she can provide the proper help…this all takes time. When you are getting calls all day long (and even at night some times)…there’s just not enough hours in a day, nor ability to get everything done as fast as those sitting on their couch wanting information right NOW, want it.
The list is necessary for THIS group, because LEADERSHIP has been so lax in caring about the criminals, and rather became enablers, in allowing the predators to flourish in all these environments (Special Meetings, Conventions, Gospel Meetings, meetings in a home, and get-togethers) and sadly, within the family home, where they have sought shelter for a night or two!! Our homes are NOT B & B’s they are our HOMES. These people are to bring PEACE into our homes, not rape, molestation, and sexual immorality on the wives and children. It’s completely unspeakably disgusting that our ministry has sided with the predators, and been groomed by the predators, and have chosen to believe the predators over the cries of the victims!! They’ve treated this crime as though it were ‘just a sin’…it’s a horrible sin, but this crime is beyond just a sin. So, those of us who are working hard behind the scenes to DO something…instead of just whining, don’t appreciate impatient people second guessing everyone else, when they are CHOOSING not to do anything to HELP!
Thank you! I couldn’t agree more. I was worried this site was going from good to the ridiculous and wondering where else I could go to follow updates on these issues in a sane and rational manner.