Report by Cynthia Liles 19 March 2024
Last year, I received a report alleging child sex assault of an adolescent boy by Luther Raine. I notified Robert Eberhardt in writing on October 27, 2023. On March 3, 2024, Luther issued a letter to the Alabama/Mississippi/Louisiana staff indicating he was voluntarily stepping down from the work as a result of the allegation.
On March 10, 2024, Robert Eberhardt sent me an email to let me know Luther was stepping down. Robert asked me to call him, which I did. When we spoke, Robert indicated that even though Luther was stepping down, he was going to continue traveling with his companion and would be staying in homes; however, he would not be preaching. I informed Robert that I had become aware of an additional sex assault allegation of a young adult male, and I believed that Luther should be removed from the work immediately.
Last week, Robert sent out a message notifying the friends that Luther was resuming active ministry with Robert’s full support.
On March 16, 2024, I had a text exchange with Robert (attached). In his text message, Robert asked why I’m not using the “innocent until proven guilty” standard. This standard is unequivocally NOT the appropriate standard to apply to these cases. The standard that MUST be applied to address all allegations in this fellowship is “credible allegation,” especially in light of the nature of this particular ministry. This is the only standard that is appropriate to help toward the safety of the congregation and care for the victims.
If the standard “innocent until proven guilty” were applied to cases such as Ira Hobbs’ case, he would still be in the work with allegations of raping women and sexually abusing children.
Luther Raine has credible allegations and must be removed from the work.
Cynthia Liles
Message text below. Robert Eberhardt posts are in italic.
Sunday 2.06 PM Hi Robert — this is Cynthia Liles. I don’t want to call when It’s a bad time for you.
It’s okay
Today 7.35 AM Robert, this is Cynthia Liles. Is it true, in spite of our conversation earlier this week, that you’ve decided to keep Luther in the work?
Today 12.54 PM If it is true that you advocate for truth, why do you hold a person guilty until proven innocent? Isn’t that principle, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty, true with you?
You appear to me to be too eager to count numbers of persons removed from ministry by your efforts than waiting for due process. Especially since hearing your pursuit of How quickly you turn on those who once were enamored by you.
Today 3.07 PM I believe you are ill informed and willfully ignorant about these matters. For starters, the standard of “innocent until proven guilty” is absolutely not the standard for a system that has its “itinerant” preachers staying in the homes of congregants. The standard here must be credible allegations, which is the case with Luther.
I will be letting the FBI know you are intentionally keeping a minister with credible allegations of child sex abuse and sex assault in the ministry which includes staying in people’s homes. I will also let them know about your involvement in the Rick Simpson matter, as well as others.
I did not “pursue” [redacted]. [redacted] reached out to me after receiving an email from [redacted] regarding an allegation of a [redacted] [redacted]. I am holding her to the same standard as I am Luther.
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It is very sad how these overseers/ workers behave they play by their own set of rules. They molest children then play stupid and innocent, move each other around to different states and countries. This helps for the statute of limitations to run out so they don’t go to jail God forbid if the ever had to pay for their criminal behavior! The majority in charge all will have a millstone waiting on the at the end of life. Thanks for all you do Cynthia and Lauren.
“Credible threat” is absolutely the correct standard to apply when there have been allegations made against anyone going into the home of another.
Allowing this person to remain on the staff puts others at potential risk. Not acceptable and not an option here.
As someone involved in the field of child abuse for 45 years & in the fellowship for 47 yrs – the standard Cynthia is applying here is correct.
Either he’s out, or the experiment of the ministry residing in our homes needs to end immediately.
Hello. Is this Pat Tackitt, from Michigan? This is Denise Doucette from Iowa. If so, I’m thrilled to be in contact with you! I absolutely agree with your comment. Anyone with a reported, credible allegation should be sidelined immediately until the case is fully investigated. Especially with the history of cover-ups and proven dishonesty within this ministry. Cynthia Liles is doing a tremendous job of identifying and addressing these crimes.
With all due respect, the William Irvine “experiment” will not end until the cult is no more. After all, that is the basis of the cult – “homeless” people going “2×2” and “spreading the gospel”. Besides, your Overseer Greg Harger (MI, OH, WV) is still letting Worker Raine’s bubby, self-admitted CSA Worker Don Reynolds have free reign (no pun intended) in these states.
According to an update letter from Overseer Gasser of Wisconsin, Overseer Harger is now in charge of Indiana as well as Ohio, Michigan and West Virginia. No more excuses that Reynolds can attend meetings in Indiana but not in Ohio. Parents need to be aware of this in order to protect their young from Don and others like him with evil intent.
I agree 100%.
This shows how badly workers are out of touch with the laws of the land. Zero understanding of laws or reality, or perhaps just think they don’t apply to 2x2s?
What Cynthia Liles says is very true, The sheep of His pasture do not need maybe child molesters sleeping in their homes. It’s time to think of the victims and not the maybe predators!
Wow – this text string from Overseer Eberhardt to Cynthia is really unbelievable. I hope that the “Friends” in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama know about this horrible matter before letting Raine into their places of rest. Unfortunately, many cult members refuse to read sites such as Wings, so they are in the dark regarding the depth of CSA in “The Truth”. Hopefully, the FBI can question Overseer Eberhardt and Worker Raine before more lives are totally ruined.
wanted to add, Worker Raine is a real weirdo. He has been in our home and I have sat through many convention meetings and special meetings listening to this creep. Like most other “workers”, IF Raine was not “a worker”, most cult members would not have anything to do with him.
One strange duck. If you hosted him, I hope you’ve cleaned your carpets as he was known to fling his boogers! Cringed at his sermons as someone eventually would get skewered in his mocking tone voice especially set as for examples of someone doing some unpardonable event. Made me always wonder when I or some close to me would be part of one of his negative examples. Plus: ever notice the number of “I” statements in one sermon? “I” statements reigned supreme.
“Today 12.54 PM If it is true that you advocate for truth, why do you hold a person guilty until proven innocent? Isn’t that principle, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty, true with you?
You appear to me to be too eager to count numbers of persons removed from ministry by your efforts than waiting for due process. Especially since hearing your pursuit of How quickly you turn on those who once were enamored by you.”
I am seeing a little more, bit-by-bit. The enterprise (aka the ministry in collusion) has covered truth… hoping that one day it would not be uncovered. (innocent until proven guilty)
So, the leaders in the ministry have pushed back against the law of the land about child abusers in the church, because it was “inconvenient”. Now the leadership have found a little ‘convenience’ in the law of the land and low-and-behold, what now is the message? ‘Cover until the judge gives his word.” It begs the question: which Truths of God were convenient in their message over the passage of time and which ones were covered because they proved some inconvenience to the enterprise?
So now the message is that we have to wait until a judge in the land determines if it is true that someone with power and/or authority in the church took advantage of children or the vulnerable in the church (the people, the Bride) and abused them sexually, or whatever type of abuse their heart desired.
If I did not know better, the court date of the Judgement of the enterprise that has inserted itself between the Bridegroom and the Bride is in full session. The Judgement of the enterprise that insisted on wielding power and control over the church, the Place the Master desired …court seems to be in full swing. Due process just might be happening before our eyes, no?! Who has an ear to hear what the Judge is saying to the church?
Stay tuned and watch the proceedings friends and workers. The noisome sore has been revealed, and the vile waters of religious enterprise is revealed – be prepared for the rivers and fountains of the message even from the platform …it might just start appearing as the blood of a dead man. The angel with the everlasting Gospel just may have been instructed to stay silent now through those paying any form of, or iota of allegiance to the enterprise. Things could get ugly. The Bridegroom might be saying, “Y’all have fooled with my Bride long enough.”
But what do I know? Not often I am right, but this time I could be wrong. Or I may be just uncovering a truth prematurely. And up to you; you don’t have to watch the proceedings if you don’t want to …or if you want to follow the instruction of the enterprise not to watch. Whatevvvverrrr! Each will have to decide who they believe is deceiving who.
Golly – life ain’t easy when you are alive!
Cynthia Liles I agree completely with everything you have said. The delay from Rob in responding to you from October 27, 2023 to March 10th 2024 shows a complete disregard for anything related to sexual misconduct. My guess is that Rob only responded because of the FBI investigation. His asking you to call him was just another of his ruses to dodge anything he said being on record. He’s a proud arrogant man. I’ve known him since approximately 2010. When I sought his advice/ help regarding a personal problem in my marriage his response was “you’re a grown man, deal with it.” It was then I realized he wasn’t what a true shepherd of the church should be. I didn’t know about his sexual misconduct with consenting adults or the time frame in which it occurred. He feels God has forgiven him but what’s the consequences he’s had to deal with as a result? I don’t see any negative consequences as he’s been promoted to overseer since my encounter with him. I also am seeing a definite bias in his thinking/actions regarding those with allegations as per your interactions with Rob. I also know Rick Simpson and I know the two ladies who made their allegations against him and the ladies are VERY credible. His arrogance also shows by him asking “ aren’t people innocent until proven guilty?” statement. He believes he’s more intelligent than most and wants to put people on the defensive rather than acknowledge any problems. I would like to ask Rob what the people making the allegations have to gain by doing so? I had nothing to gain by speaking out. I couldn’t prove anything after 58 years. My abuser refuses to admit to any wrongdoing so there’s obviously no repentance and he’s allowed volunteer meeting in his home to pray and speak with no emblems.
Rob very clearly is showing his bias in a negative way towards anyone that makes an allegation. His disdain for reporters of abuse is clearly influenced by his own misconduct. There’s much more I could say but will let this do for now.
Thank you for all your efforts in helping to clean up this almost incestous culture of protecting abusers and discrediting the victims.
William (Bill) Johnson
Hi Bill – have you reported those meetings for predators to the FBI? They should know that Robert is allowing those, and also give the names of the Elders where they attend (if there is one), because they should have said “no” too. Everything that we KNOW to not be being done as it should, the FBI wants to hear about, because it gives them a fuller picture as to the culpability of these overseers. I would also tell them about your abuse. I know it’s been 58 years, but the FBI wants to know about it. They want to know who you told, and what their advice was at the time. If you haven’t already, I would write a letter to your abuser telling them you didn’t appreciate what they did to you, and how it hurt you, and what it’s still doing to you. Keep a copy of it with the date that you wrote it and mailed it. The lack of response speaks volumes, or they could do the right thing and send a response. I would like to know how it goes. henoffour@gmail.com
Thank you, Cynthia ! These men are choosing to be ignorant and arrogant about the danger they are reigning down on the innocent. We have been dealing with this ugliness for a year now, and Robert has zero excuse for not being well educated and morally AND scripturally on the fact that these predators are not to be amongst God’s people! EVER!! For those of you who are also choosing ignorance, no, I am not “unforgiving”, I am educated as to the predatory nature (like wolves), and that can not be taken out of someone who doesn’t want to change! If you THINK they have changed, ask yourself this: have they repented AND turned themselves in to law-enforcement? No? There’s your answer.
IF Luther is to be accused let the person stand up and accuse him. Not some name less person who may or may not be real. To many are proving they just have an ax to grind. Until the Rob your doing the right thing.
Encouraging pedophile rings isn’t a great idea Beholder.
I am a survivor of Don Reynolds and Beholder shame on you. If Luther molested one of your children or grandchildren. Would you feel this way? I actually know one of Luther’s victims personally and don’t find humor in standing for the pervert.
I to am a survivor. So, show me the proof….not an accusation. Proof. Accusing someone is easy…I Have stood up to my perp….It’s what must be done. Not hiding in the shadows chucking rocks.
Ohhhh BEHOLDER? …you are not hiding in the shadows chucking rocks?
Maybe if you could elaborate a wee more to the readership on this point of view please?
beholder – The identity of CSA and SA victims are always protected all the way through the court process. CSA and SA victims may choose to identify themselves, but are not obligated to – they have suffered enough.
Beholder…how about naming your proven abuser so we can keep ourselves, our wives, and our children away from his evil clutches?
Multiple people have stood up Mr. Beholder. They have stood up and given their information to Cynthia and that information has been vetted by multiple others. That is all that is needed to make the allegations credible enough to remove Luther from the ministry. That is the level of “proof” it took to remove Priests and Pastors around the globe from their various church ministries. These credible allegations are NOT to put a man in prison, they are to remove a threat to 100s of homes with children from a man who has demonstrated a desire and interest in being a threat to those homes. Luther has no business being around children. Period. Rob is NOT doing the right thing. He is not even following the scripture he espouses to love and minister.
amen!
Amen.
You say accusing is easy. I am of a differing opinion. Accusing rarely is easy. There are so many emotions to overcome when actually admitting out loud to someone that you have been violated in such a personal way. Rarely easy.
Perhaps confronting your abuser was easy for you, but not everyone is of the same constitution as you seem to be.
You also say “many” have an ax to grind. Do you know this to be true or is that just your personal feeling?
Maybe stick to what you know to be true and leave the investigation and the confidentiality of victims to Cynthia Liles.
I was so hoping to feel as if Rob Eberhart was taking the allegations seriously, but alas, it seems that he thinks putting an alleged predator back into staying in family’s homes is safe for the congregation.
@Beholder – ignorant people are shouting “who?” It doesn’t matter who and how many. There’s not just ONE!! We are not here to force the victims to “stand up, and be named” causing them more pain and further abuse! We can be caring adults and be patient. Just because the overseers have chosen to be ignorant and ugly, and behave in evil ways does not excuse us from doing the right thing!!! The FBI is involved because there’s credible allegations, and to leave a pervert/predator in amongst the vulnerable, is unfathomably irresponsible and dangerous! My suggestion, if you can’t be patient, go pray.
Henofour, our overseers are not the enemy. The enemy is those that are trying every way to bring the fellowship down. The FBI will maybe be able to charge one or two. That it. They are finding that many of the reports they are getting are false…..so when an accusation is made it needs to be vetted, by more than just one…
If the enemy are those who are working to bring down the fellowship, then that would be you BEHOLDER, and Mr. Eberhart. You are both quite effective.
@Beholder – Maybe this will help you: The MINISTRY accounts for over 40% of the victims who have come forward. Many have confessed, others have been charged. Our Elders are the next largest group with 20%. ALL the other categories account for the other 40%.
So, to say the Ministry/Overseers aren’t at fault is a joke. They have pretty well single-handedly destroyed something I held very dear to MY heart. Because a HUGE majority of the “elders” we have today – were tossed from the work for sexual abuse! The other people trying to get help for the victims – they are the ones who God is working through now. He is FURIOUS with this ministry, and has made it SUPER clear…just as He did with Jesus help as He went into the TEMPLE cracking the whip and throwing their disgusting tables over!!
These men (overseers) have lied repeatedly to us over the past year. They are CHOOSING to be ignorant (as are you), because they have now had a FULL year+ to GET EDUCATED, and chose not to. I don’t know who lied to you about the “many false allegations”, but the FBI has NOT made any statement to that effect. Once they feel they have ALL the information about each predator/victim, they will decide which cases have enough evidence for a guaranteed guilty verdict to send it on to the prosecutor – but, that DOES NOT mean by any stretch of the imagination, that they other cases are not credible allegations. It only means that, because our overseers have hated the victims so much, that enough time has passed that evidence couldn’t be collected – not that they didn’t happen.
I don’t know where you get the idea that only ONE person is vetting all these cases, but that is definitely NOT the case either. There’s NO way Cynthia or her team could possibly vett all these allegations with out the help of the FBI…there are thousands of credible allegations.
So, best buckle your britches and hang on…it’s just getting started!
Luther’s victims HAVE stood up…that’s why the FBI is handling this case. If it wasn’t serious, they wouldn’t have touched it!
Beholder, quit making statements you know nothing about. Your statement of “they are finding that many of the reports they are getting are false” is a complete fabrication. You are not involved in the FBI investigation and know nothing about how it is proceeding. The FBI would not have announced the case publicly after months of investigating the reports they were given last summer if those reports were false.
The overseers are making themselves the friend of Satan by aiding, abetting and enabling behavior that is spoken against repeatedly in scripture.
”The overseers are making themselves the friend of Satan by aiding, abetting and enabling behavior that is spoken against repeatedly in scripture”, says one. Another states here, “Just because the overseers have chosen to be ignorant and ugly, and behave in evil ways does not excuse us from doing the right thing!!!”
Both of these statements are correct. The question is though, if the head is not right, how does the body function? If the lead takes the wrong path, how does those that follow end up in the right direction?
Now if you get rid of the head workers, like many suggest, you have no leadership and you then have chaos. Or, if you chop off the head, such as a snake, the whole thing will collapse and die.
It is without question that the leadership is at the least, very misguided. At the worst, leadership is dealing with the devil and disguising itself as a child of God.
Luke 11:23 says, “Anyone who is not with me is against me, and anyone who does not work with me is working against me”. The word of God here gives the answer. Since it is obvious the leadership is working against God, that would mean that they are working for the devil.
That does not mean that we should behave in kind. But it also means that we should not follow leadership.
@The wrong path – you are assuming that everyone is following the workers. The workers are NOT our leaders. Many of us have NEVER followed the workers, we have always followed Jesus. No one is cutting Jesus head off!
The workers are messengers (who have usurped authority that was never given by Jesus), who are SUPPOSED to be bringing the message of the Gospel of Jesus to FEED the people. That also does NOT make them a shepherd, it makes them a helper/servant/hired hand. Raping and pillaging our families is completely against everything that Jesus was and still is.
Some are even trying to flee their countries so they can’t be prosecuted…like a hired hand would.
I’m not too sure about chopping off God’s head. If he’s the top…
If he’s not, swing away.
You could share by saying who you are. We have children to raise in this fellowship and I intend to protect my children at all cost! Let’s be transparent here! Until a person has been up all night feeding, rocking a child or spending nights in an ER caring for a child I don’t want to hear about putting a pedophile back in the fellowship. That is one big reason we use grape juice for the wine, so as not to tempt a person who has a struggle with alcohol. It would be like tempting a person to abuse again with putting them back in fellowship with children. One allegation I can deal with(somewhat), more than one, I have a problem with!! Cecil, please let’s try to understand what others are struggling with on the other side of the fence and show a little empathy. We can be cordial and quit the mud slinging!! Please do not hide behind a screen name. Doing that discredits you as a person. I mean that with love and care! But as a mom, I am not okay with these things!!
I also know of the distant family personally but to protect the victim I will not be putting names out there. Why put a victim through more unnecessary trauma, Cecil(Beholder). I’m glad you had courage to stand up to your perpetrator, but many do not(especially when it involves a worker). Please take a minute to get down in the muck with these victims and understand even where a parent would be coming from!
Maria Courtney
Cecil, who tells you that the information the FBI is getting is false!? Let’s be transparent about things!! If it is false, the FBI needs to make a statement to that fact on their letterhead. I’m not here for mudslinging and lies. I’m here for seeking the truth and honesty in all matters. If Luther has done nothing wrong, then put him back in the work. But while trying to figure that out, don’t let my children be the next potential victim. My children are innocent individuals and I WILL NOT allow them to be a potential victim/survivor.
if someone makes a false allegation to the FBI, that is a crime and they will be arrested!
beholder – we are all still waiting for you to identify your abuser so that we can stay away from that person in order to prevent further CSA/SA abuse. Maybe in your response you can provide where you are getting your info regarding the FBI inquiry. Leaking FBI information is against the law.
Im’ behind you 100% I have been around Luther for years and I KNOW he is telling the truth
Be careful with your confidence in Mr. Raine. You have not been with him every minute of every day… To the degree you claim confidence in him, you are identifying his victims as liars. For a male to disclose an incident(s) of sexual assault by a man, it is a very vulnerable position to take. Hundreds of thousands of men out there have never sexually assaulted another male, so why would Mr. Raine be accused? Think about it…
James, no you don’t know. The reason is this: a negative is extremely difficult to be proven.
Proof of impossibility is one way, such as an alleged CSA abuser is a paraplegic or can prove being elsewhere at the time of the allegation. However, just because you think you know somebody is not enough, and is exactly what abusers want you to think after grooming you.
@James – this comment is proof at what a talented groomer Luther is. There are currently not ONE, but TWO allegations against him, and I’m guessing the rest are too afraid to come forward. I would also suggest you read up on predators, because making statements like this “I’m behind you 100% percent…” there is NO possible way to know someone like that. Even husband’s and wives don’t know everything about each other!
Overseers STILL are not listening!
They NEED TO START LISTENING!!
Marg Meyer/Magowan
Margmeyer54 says,
“Overseers STILL are not listening!
They NEED TO START LISTENING!!”
Overseers have not listened since the founding father William Irvine was in charge. Why should they change now?
margmeyer54: Thank you for your ability to understand the absolute vile, twisted criminal perverted “accepted” behavior” of the so-called ministry. As we lay awake, discussing the gross immoral, yet accepted, behavior amongst “God’s very chosen people” we became physical ill.
The mouthy, cheeky, insolence of Robert Eberhardt to Cynthia Liles who is giving her time, effort and empathy to this “worse than war crime”, which is an ‘international forbidden war tactic’ :: shows ‘who is his god”. The same attitude of Merlin Affect and Cheryl. 2 Corinthians 11:13 – :15. This is NOT a light, snarffy comment. This in great sorrow and defeat; the realization of seven decades of contending for the “Faith”-Truth – Fellowship is worse than “dross”; it is complete destruction for all. The least Robert and Merlin can do is withdraw, and take those he knows are criminals with him. AND “ALL acknowledge they are NOT of God”!
Just the realization of these “prohibited ‘Acts of War'” itself; has and is happening, not only in our very midst: BUT in our very “safe zones” where our families are safe from all harm. NO ONE “broke down the door” — screaming and flashing a weapon. IT IS BY “friendly fire”! AND, have the very “audacity” to do all in the NAME of Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour and God our Father, both who reign in Heaven.
We are NOT in a “War Zone”!??? Is that why “overseers” are SOOO clueless??? PUT THEM in the ‘fox holes’! (Oh, sorry, they are! They are committing these crimes THAT are forbidden EVEN IN WAR Zones!) YES, this is ugly! Yes, this is happening! Where are the “refugees” who are fleeing from this War? Where are those who are sheltering their families and themselves from this brutal, secrete, silent destruction of ALL “They have ever KNOWN”?
YES, you are correct! The wounded are in the ditches, hiding? with no cover from their leaders.! Because the enemy IS the very ones whom they so gladly welcomed into the safety of their HOME! in the NAME of the ‘lowly Jesus’, their redeemer. They now have NO “safe place” or future!!!
What is your only ‘Defense’? How do you “Stand against the “wiles of the devil”? Yes, if you are still alive and able: read and understand what is YOUR ONLY “defense”.
Take out your Bible: Open up to Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong “in the power of his might’.
HOW? Eph. 6:11: PUT ON the whole armour of God, that YOU may be able to “stand” against the’ wiles’ of the “DEVIL”.
Do not be distracted. READ each item of God’s armour so you can protect yourself and your loved ones from acts so perverted that they are even forbidden in times of war. = :13 – :14. Yes, even in the Name of Jesus. Yes, it is hard work: but :17 makes it very doable. Yes, God’s Word as written. A Helmet protects your head YOUR Salvation and a sword IS your protector and YOUR “Defense”. Learn to use it as actually written.
Settle your self as you seek to read God’s Word given to Paul, as the “”Wise master builder”: 1 Corinthians 3:10. Why does Paul NOT SAY Jesus Christ is the “wise Master Builder”?; or Peter? or the 12 Apostles? NO, Paul says in verse :10 according to the “”grace of God which is given unto me” as a wise “”MASTER builder””, I have laid the “foundation” == :11 … which IS Christ.””
Jesus, Peter, and the 12 Apostles HAD BEEN the very ministry of God to that Nation of Israel as they ministered unto Israel of their “very promised, covenanted, perfect “Kingdom of Heaven on Earth”. God’s Chosen Nation had turned from God. God let them go.
Hosea 5:15 – I will go and return to my place Amos 8:11 – :12 Ye shall seek the word of the LORD and shall NOT find it… Then after 400 years of God’s silence, Jesus Christ was born: King of the Jews; Matthew 2:1-:2. Jesus died “King of the Jews” Math.27:11, :37. Then the 12 apostles were sent in Acts 2:6, :8 to Israel. That ministry was cut-off with stoning of Stephen by the very supreme court of Israel! – Acts 6:11 – :15 and Acts 7: Paul explains this prophesied for God’s Nation of Israel in Romans 11:7 – :15, because of :7-:11;;; :25 – :27 IS God’s bring Israel back to himself.
BUT NOW – IN THE MEANTIME- IS - Romans 3:21 – :27; Ephesians 3:1-:9. Pray to God that God will open your understanding as God did open “Heart” for Lydia in Thyatira – Acts 16:13 – :15. We have found a very knowledgable Bible teacher- with no denominational twist or affiliation: “Through the Bible with Les Feldick”. We must read Our Bible as written.
Our minds are weeping for the self made destruction of 2×2’s. BUT it is shocking to witness the arrogance of a self made ministry which revels in their own self destruction as they seal their own fate.
@Astounded- as I remember your timeline, when all these terrible things were happening to our dear children you were a happy partaker and supporter of those who were guilty, but now in self righteousness you excuse your past support and point your finger at those who knew nothing about what was happening. From all your twisting of the Word of God it is hard to fathom that you once had a revelation and relationship with Jesus. But I guess Paul covers that in his letter to the Galatians.
well Beholder please start by using your name. If you are what you said you are my name is Cliff Hull and call Cynthia and she will be glad to share my phone number. I won’t do it on a public site however please let share your name here. Thanks Cliff
Hugs to you Cliff. You are not along here bud.
Amen; greetings; It is with heavy heart, that we respond to your accusations. The only time we supported this ministry was while we drank their “kool-aid”. We now shudder as we realize: we with open hearts and in what we thought was mutual love and purpose, put our littles ones in great harms way. This complete lack of awareness by Robert Eberhardt and Luther Raine for this heinous criminal behavior and destruction of their victims is not: nor never has been of God.
BUT now: in sheer terror; as we continue to witness the unfolding of willful ignorance(How else does one explain protection of CSA/SA criminals. Genesis 4:10 the voice of thy brothers “blood” crieth unto me from the ground.). AND sheer defiance by the leaders, regardless of the destruction of their victims. As many have so wisely written: You shall know them by their fruits.! Do you think that knowledge makes anyone self righteous? Sorry, you are NOT there, yet; so you are NOT able to understand the complete destruction of innocent victims and their families by a non-scriptural ministry, if you think condemnation makes people self righteous..
No, We did not have a relationship with Jesus. We had a relationship with those who “”said””; they had a ‘relationship with Jesus’ BUT did not! You shall know them by their works.
It was only when we actually took Ephesians 6: and the armour of God seriously, that we began to read our Bible as it is written :17; THAT we learned the ‘workers’ were NOT following Jesus, nor Jesus’ “ministry” to God’s Chosen Nation of Israel “to bring that Nation of Israel back to God so that Nation would be a “nation of priest’s” to bring Gentiles to God Luke 2:32 words of Simeon – :25 was just and ‘devout’ waiting for the “”consolation of Israel”” – :31 – :32 spoke of Jesus as ‘ a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the “Glory of thy people, Israel”.
It was also when we were able to understand Paul’s letter to those Gentiles who believed Paul’s “”gospel of the Grace of God(this letter to his church in Galatia)””, concerning Acts 15: explains how those Jews who believed that Jesus was their messiah, King and Judge and followed the Law and prophets “DEMANDED” those Gentiles Acts 15:1, :5 “must” keep the Law of Moses as Jesus commanded of all ‘believers’ who followed Jesus Math. 19:19 and Math. 23:1-:3 Acts 15:5
Romans 11:7 – :15 explains why the Good News Gospel to the Nation of Israel of their coming perfect kingdom of heaven on earth: was “cut off” Romans 11:25 – :27 explains when that PROMISE of Israel’s perfect Kingdom “gospel” will again be ministered to them.((After that fulness of the Gentiles promised by Paul of their “Heavenly Kingdom” for eternity.
Yes, Amen: Paul was very protective of His church in Galatia who believed and followed the Gospel of the “Grace of God” given to Paul from Heaven by Christ as Christ sat on the right hand of God. Acts 26:13 – :19. Thank you for referring to Galatians as Paul makes so clear that NOW salvation does not come by Works of the Law BUT by “Faith in the finished sacrifice of Jesus in His flesh on the cross to pay for the sins of all the world. That pays God’s requirement of the “penalty of sin is death”. What gives us life??? Christ rose from the Grave in “resurrection” . Therefore When we believe the Gospel of Grace in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 – It is in the “power” of Christ’s resurrection from the grave THAT GIVES US Christ’s idenity in and to LIFE Eternally. HOW? By faith in Jesus’ finished WORK on the Cross and in His “resurrection”. NOT by WORKS of ‘keeping the Law’ as was required in Jesus’ earthly ministry(Math.19:19 and Math 23:1-:3.)
That has not been the “marks” of the so called “New Testament Church”?, who claim to follow Jesus but do not. It has NOW been proven by deep commitment and voluntary labor that it is yet, even now, great sexual abuse and refusal to follow Jesus or the 12’s example. These immense criminal twisted sins are only a true sign of their god. AND what is more frightening is Luther and Robert”s recorded behavior and complete LACK of concern for victims.
It is so freeing to understand scripture for what it is, not through a prescribed lens of doctrine. Thank you for sharing so many scripture references. It’s all there! Isn’t it wonderful that we can course correct and leave our past beliefs behind?
Robert Eberhardt claims an abuser should be considered innocent until proven guilty. A commenter on another site said, “A child is innocent until abused.” Please. Remember we are trying to protect the innocence of children.
I was the author of that comment and I thank you for sharing it here. #notafraidanymore #speakup
You are welcome, Julie. Thank you for previously stating the obvious so clearly.
As one who had her innocence robbed, I pray for justice and these men to be held accountable for their crimes against innocent children.
To Beholder and others like them who hid behind made up names: it’s easy to be loud when hiding in the shadows. What if those prophets in Old Testament and the disciples and Jesus called themselves foolish unrelated names? Would you believe them if Mark went by Holeintheground, James by Seasideman, Peter by Netmendingman, etc, etc?
William Johnson
I used to hear about so’n so and that family member and that friend who no longer goes to meetings that ‘They stopped praying’, ‘They’re bitter’, ‘They had a bad spirit’ ‘They lost out’ ‘They made shipwreck’ ‘They’re a little crazy’… maybe because they were abused or raped and didn’t have a voice and couldn’t even talk to their own parents who idolized and worshipped the workers! And couldn’t turn to those who ‘profess to be or strive to be like Jesus’ who would have empathy love and open arms! A safe haven! Nope. Where are they? Shepherds who left the one to die for the 99 and the keepers of The ‘ministry’ the same ministry Jesus instituted!? Where!? who uphold what banner high above who else? Bahhh what a sham. Peddlers of lies called truth. Back slappers, tongue waggers and hypocrites. Careless money changers in the temple whose merchandise are souls of men, women and children and services are to crush them. But go ahead smile and shake hands after meeting congratulate yourselves on your wonderful sermonette of angels no one listens to and check the attendance box of one another. Oh and if you speak up or actually stand for truth or say anything against a worker or meetings: ‘You have an axe to grind’ or ‘trying to shut down meetings’ … if that’s true then you’re all just holding and protecting chaff. Truth is truth. It doesn’t need your protection or coverup. It stands on its own. Like throwing a soap bar in the ocean there’s no clean up capable of this cesspool. Noah didn’t question what needed to be done. FBI will be a forced start at least.
Are you suggesting God isn’t “capable of cleaning up this cesspool”? Of course he is and he will. He only needs one righteous soul that finds favor in his sight to continue his work here on earth.
The righteous have a spine. Let me know when you find one in this group. These fear man. Who among them would rather face earthly justice than eternal? None. They keep waiting for justice, a roof to fall on their head and change be forced on them. The ones who know they should do something they hide and try not to ‘rock the boat.’ Others cower weaving legally cautious emails. God can’t clean up what he’s not in.
@Where’s Dale Hiding From FBI? – Did you have a spine? I’m still here and I am not afraid of any “worker”. They do not have the power to take my soul, or to take me out of God’s hand. I certainly am not waiting around for justice! My phone goes off non-stop, me email address is overflowing…some from survivors, some from family of survivors, some from family of predators – who are also victims in a different way. Every time I see that an Overseer is doing something unfathomably stupid, I send a report to the FBI. I have called California to stop John’s funeral from taking place at a school – because I hate him? No, but I hate what he did to CHILDREN and how dare they have his funeral at a place for children!! Not without warning from me (and Dozens of other people with a back-bone too), and admonition to them to be sure law-enforcement is there, because there’s sure to be rapists and child predators in attendance. One’s who were in cahoots with John.
I have contacted governments to keep certain predators from having access to their countries. I have contacted OUR government to stop admitted predators (who got a slap on the wrist) from coming through OUR border. I have called nursing care facilites to let them know they just had a predator that likes young boys dropped off at their facility. I have contacted overseers – who could care less, about anyone or anything. I have labeled them Sadists. They are enjoying the pain and suffering caused by their behavior!
I’m curious about your “name” – who’s Dale, and is someone hiding?
I choose to comment under my name as David Cronk of Torrington, Wyoming: Robert Eberhardt says innocent until proven guilty. Yes, this is the law of the land regarding criminal cases, and yes these are criminal cases. However, before trial to prove guilt or innocence, depending on the severity of the crime, the judge considers mitigating factors and sets a bond amount that will allow the accused to be out of custody until trial. Bond amount will be determined by severity of the crime,and many other factors. Many of these will sit in jail until trial because bond was not posted. BTW, I have been noticing sentencing for csa, and depending on severity of cases, if sentence occurs near middle age many of these perps will never see sunlight again.
Hi David, a relative of mine sexually abused boys and teens while he was in the work in Montana and Wyoming (and other places) in the 1980s and 1990s. I applaud your bravery in commenting under your name, but right now I’m not ready to do this. Would you be interested in further discussion via email? I will give Wings permission to share with you my full name, my relative’s name, and where I live so that you can decide whether or not you are comfortable talking more about this with me.
P.S. Yes, my relative has been turned in to the authorities.
You have my permission to contact me.
@David – I believe you have an excellent post here. When we think about the judge making his decision on setting pretrial bond or imprisonment, one of the factors is severity of the crime. We are also glad that in our judicial system that the judge has lots of evidentiary material that he has probable studied extensively before having to make that decision. The judge doesn’t have to separate hear say, rumors or innuendo fro, the facts, the experts have laid all the facts out before him. He can make an informed decision. He doesn’t have to wonder how severe the crime really is, he has the facts.
I agree, and people just need to remember that with cases that there’s not quite enough evidence for a judge/prosecutor to accept the case, does NOT mean there wasn’t abuse. Maybe too much time has passed and the evidence got tossed because the victims was told “it’s been too long, so there’s no point.” I’m positive that 50 years ago no one would have ever considered that a government agency would one day be starting surgery, that likely will be the autopsy – at least for the ministry.
Love is the Kingdom’s banner: Lift it against the sky, Over the field of battle, Where the needy cry.
Love shouted,
”Get these out of here!” (John 2:16)
Love made a whip out of cords and drove out the offenders.
Love threw coins all over the temple court.
Love overturned the money changers’ tables.
Love said,
“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” (Mt. 18:6)
Love must sometimes do hard things.
The needy, the victims are crying. Their field of battle is to just survive, to be heard, to be healed, and to live. And those who claim to hold a banner of love close their ears to the cry…
I know, I am a victim whose cries are shut down and ignored by the ones who say they love.
By the way, that quoted hymn is a real trigger for me. Thank you, For This, for explaining true love.
@In Prayer – if you need someone to talk to, please reach out. Some people on here just simply do not think things through. My email is: henoffour@gmail.com
Amen!
Henoffour, You are kind and compassionate in offering a listening ear. Thank you. I appreciate all you are doing to see justice done.
I have a small, but strong support group around me. However, I am hurt by loved ones who blindly refuse to look at or hear anything that casts their beliefs in an unfavorable light.
Where is the proof of the pudding? Those who think they are in God’s “Kingdom of Heaven on Earth” and are “right now fighting for their very sanity” and salvation because of “JUST the Opposite” Banner is flying over the field of battle. Those who are HELPING are NOT of this “Kingdom” nor do they want to be. They are even donating their ‘time and extreme effort” because they see and know the deep need of and for the “abused”. Thank you each and everyone of you.
@Astounded – Yes! Rise up in righteous anger, just like God’s people did in Judges 19. We are fighting for our wounded, and it doesn’t matter if they go to meeting, or don’t…they are still our wounded.
The ones in the ministry who abused (and mostly overseers) are the ones who tore this fellowship apart, not those who are now doing God’s work, because the ministry abusers (and all the overseers) closed their ears to the God of Heaven (if they were ever listening to begin with…I’m beginning to wonder).
Henoffour – I am so glad to hear that you never followed the workers. I never did either. They are no more important or valuable than the rest of us. Consequently, when the debacle of Robert Ingram and Truitt Oyler was exposed and some people were offended that anyone might believe something terrible about them, my husband and I didn’t even waver. Because we never followed them/worshipped them to begin with. It’s the same with this. So many just can’t believe a worker would be a pedophile. But I can. You can. I’ve known about the child sexual abuse for over 40 years. Other terrible things, too. A drunk elder, a drug addict/thieving elder. Not one worker would do anything, so I did. But many people just wouldn’t believe that these people were doing anything wrong. Ugh. I get tired of stupidity and blind following.
@Deanna Lynn – thank you, for being YOU! This made my heart smile. I actually lived in Anchorage (went to Troutman’s for Sunday morning) just as the sexual abuse and false doctrine stuff with Bob and Truitt were coming to light, but I was headed back to my parents in Washington to get ready for my wedding, and then on to North Carolina from there, and people quickly forgot I had even lived there. But, I knew women who knew all about the sexual abuse, and were told to keep quiet, and they were. Made me sick! We were only in NC (that time) for about 4 months when we were sent to Florida (and bounced around with my husband’s work for about 20 years). We have seen a lot! We had an Elder that was arrested for DUI’s so many times, we all lost count – I’m sure he did too, since his brain was so pickled from all the alcohol he consumed. He got into wrecks, but thankfull never killed anyone. There was another bunch – One owned the business and the rest worked for him…all got to have a one-way ticket to prison for various lengths of time (depended on how much they knew about the tax evasion). I’ve seen abuse amongst the workers (nice way to show love/respect to each other so the world will know that they are His?), I’ve been verbally abused, attacked, and falsely accused by workers (because I wouldn’t agree or comply with things I KNEW were wrong), my children have been the target of some pretty disgusting people (mostly workers), and at times, for their safety, even gave them my car keys to leave the house until the workers left, complete with an excuse. Was always interesting to see who they would ask about “Where’s XXX? Are they coming back?”…like I wouldn’t know that was their target?!! When I said, “no” their whole demeaner would change.
I worked as a professional birth coach for 12 years (after our youngest headed off to school full time) and had to take classes on sexual abuse, because of the negative effects it has on the birthing process…this evil is not new to me. I was, at times, brought into the schools to “work with the kids” to figure out if I thought they were being sexually abused or not. Often times they would talk to me and tell me things they wouldn’t tell anyone from the school – afterall, I was “just a parent of XXX”. But, in most cases, the kids are so afraid of going to foster care with a family they don’t know (or at least that’s what they told me), they would choose to lie to the courts to be able to stay in their family home. One little boy (6yo) said to me “If I can stay alive until I’m 18, I can get away and live a better life” – the wisdom that these kids had that this treatment is NOT okay, is a wonder. He actually ended up leaving home at 16 and lived on the streets until he could afford his own apartment…but, he didn’t care! He was ALIVE!! (I had moved away, but checked in with the teacher that was trying to keep tabs and help him as she could).
Jesus told us to put on the whole armor every day. Soldiers wear armor. Glad we are in the same platoon!
Does anyone know if Luther R ‘s case has been dismissed or where does it stand? He spoke at our convention this yr in Alabama.