Merlin Affleck declined to be interviewed by CBC, but did respond by email. This is his email to staff on the matter.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2316186691687
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sex-abuse-charges-church-with-no-name-1.7121218
“Recently I’ve had some communication with a reporter from CBC Vancouver. The same lady attended Cheryl and Sarah’s gospel meeting last Sunday and said that she’s doing a documentary on us and would like to see the other side of the story. Cheryl told her she was looking at it ….a group of happy people that love each other. One of her questions to me was, “what are you doing to keep children safe going forward”. I will cut and paste my reply to her. It is probably wise to keep our answers short and factual when dealing with the media. This is just a heads up for you before her story goes public.
My reply to the reporter:
1) A Child Safe Policy has been developed with the help of professionals and each of our members has access to it.
2) A Ministers Code of Conduct Policy has been agreed to and signed by each one in the ministry.
3) Each minister on the BC staff has completed a Ministry Safe course and has a certificate.
4) Most in the ministry have had criminal background checks done with the RCMP.
5) We continue to actively review our Child Safe Policy and keep it current.
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I don’t understand why the whole congregation in Canada hasn’t stood together against Merlin, Mike, Wayne, and company. Close your wallets, your homes, your meetings, your conventions…until these men get over themselves and leave. They are not true servants of God, well maybe A god, but not the God of Heaven. It’s been a year now, and they choose to learn nothing. They don’t care that the God of Heaven is turning this fellowship upside down because he wants nothing to do with this ministry or perverts…this ministry won’t even seek wise counsel!! They are too busy puffing their chests up, and using their own human thinking. This list Merlin seems so proud of is a joke!!
It should not be that you “close” or leave what is right about the fellowship. Jesus did establish a ministry and sent them 2 x 2 together (no matter the mocking and derisive comments about that) and you read in the New Testament how the care for it was with the saints and The church was in the homes. We must, however, rid it of what is wrong. God is doing that now and in his time. I’m glad to trust that.
It does seem that not enough is happening to correct the wrong or fast enough and Merlin’s list is baby steps, but I feel that instead of sneering at them and squashing those steps we should be cheering those little steps in order to encourage them to take the more needful stronger ones.
God needs us to keep our spirits right through this cleansing time.
In Matthew 10 the apostles were told to NOT go to the Gentiles. In Luke 22 they were told to take a purse and scrip with them. In Acts 8, the apostles stayed in Jerusalem and the disciples all went to the countries of their own language preaching the word. Seems this model that was held up for the past 100 yrs as scriptural does not quite match up.
Keepright: Thank you for your post. There is a very huge problem. Honesty is of utmost concern. Proof for each statement is of utmost need and realization that if not factual; it is detrimental to all concerned. That is one of the reasons for such complete break-down in all aspects AND loss of respect.
Proof of your statements are very needful to “not” mislead. If one fact is of great importance, why is another fact in the complete commandment ignored? We refer to Matthew 10:5 – :15. Where in the four gospels as Jesus walks among the Nation of Israel, mostly in Galilee, in his human flesh, – gave the care of the ministry to the saints??? Where is Jesus statement to those who followed Jesus in his fleshly ministry, that The church IS in the ‘homes’???
Keepright, explain Matthew 16:18 – :20 to Peter who was given the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
Aso Matthew 18:1 As Jesus is saying to his 12 disciple: 15 – :20; the responsibilitiy of problems. The disciples decisions shall be done of my Father who is in heaven.
Indignation, demand for honesty, attention to exact ‘words of Jesus’ as written, while refusing to be mislead ARE the “Right Spirit” that has “ALWAYS” BEEN GOD’S STANDARD.
THAT DID NOT CHANGE WHEN JESUS WAS sent in human flesh to ‘bring that Nation of Israel’ back to God. In fact, it did NOT change when Jesus in his “risen from the grave; body” — instructed his 12 chosen apostles to minister and preach in that “nation of Israel” to bring that nation back to himself. That very government of Nation of Israel – the very supreme Court, with their very own hands ‘stoned’ Stephen - bringing the reality of Matthew 12:31 – :32 by their VERY Choice, upon that Nation. That reality is still in force.
@Keepright – So, our Bible Study tonight is John 16 Jesus is speaking to his DISCIPLES: Verse 32 – the disciples would be scattered unto their own homes. Yes, Jesus sent the disciples two together to the house of Israel, but they were NOT homeless, and at times with the Apostles there were odd numbers of them together.
You want me to be thankful for “baby steps”…it’s been over a YEAR! This that he’s written above, is hollow legal jargon. Just because someone takes a class, doesn’t make them safe! What is he doing to rid the fellowship of predators? We don’t want to hear all about your classes that you have no intentions of using the information you learned…we want to SEE you act in a Godly and scriptural manner!! Merlin is choosing ignorance. Maybe he doesn’t read his bible either, because he’s surely NOT following scripture.
Henoffour, I take heart in the quote by Abe Lincoln when he said, “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time”.
Henoffour you said, “I don’t understand why the whole congregation in Canada hasn’t stood together against Merlin, Mike, Wayne, and company”.
Some of the people are still being fooled. The time is coming though where all the people, the rest of the people, will not be fooled. Now there will still be people to proud to admit that they have been fooled, but nonetheless they will no longer be fooled. And they will be a fool for not accepting that they have been fooled.
God will not be amused.
Agreed, so many fooled! God is not happy, and He is showing just how unhappy he is, by turning this fellowship upside down. The ministry tore it apart, but God is just going to keep putting it all out there, and using whoever/whatever it takes to make these ignorant men do what needs to be done, or they will lose their health and possibly their lives as they know it. I’m so thankful for AFTT and everyone else that’s standing for the scriputure, and doing what is right in the eyes of God – which our ministry is not.
Astounded: You are asking that I explain some passages in Mathew etc. I am satisfied with my understanding of them as no doubt you are satisfied with yours. To get into a debate about them would not be beneficial to purpose of this forum. As stated on The home page “ it is to encourage change in the fellowship in order to protect others from the devastation that occurs through CSA, especially when its impact is trivialized or ignored.”
I’m sure there are those that have other grievances or are disgruntled about other situations but this platform is to highlight CSA and the need to support victims and the need for changes to protect members in the fellowship. This can be done….with prayer and the Lord’s guidance.
Keepright: We are sorry you feel this an issue of “debate”.
We agree with you that the “PURPOSE” of this site is to help victims. That is the ‘purpose’ of this our “Reply”. When the victim is able to “Remove the Power of the Criminal” over themselves: THAT is a HUGE step on path of “recovery”. We do not claim that is all that is needed and do realize it is a life long struggle.
What a burden is forced on the innocent and obedient and their families by twisted, unfathomable, criminal behavior and THAT by those who claim to be “God’s ONLY anointed Ones. The victim can NOT go against God.
Those who criminally “abuse” and then claim they have RULE over you; their victims AND; REALLY - actually — DO NOT!::: because they are NOT following the very Doctrine of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
THAT would be a very HUGE load removed from the “victims” feeling of self guilt. This ‘burden’ of those who “abuse” CLAIM they have Authority over the victims: when they do not::: would give the ‘victims’ back their POWER and give them control. THIS IS a huge issue with victims recovery. To feel they have control! Numberless people have ‘posted’ their experiences of relief and Joy.
When ‘victims’ are able to read exactly what Jesus actually told his disciples; they realize they have been hoodwinked by their ‘abusers’ and the One Only Right Way. Those abusers and their ‘overseers’ lose all their ‘power’ to control.
Understanding God’s Word as written; gives the ability to discern that all the So Called “Authority” they claim to have: as they ‘Abuse’ is the ‘work of Satan’!; then THAT releases the victims and their families To pursue Criminal Charges in the Courts of Criminal Law.
Merlin Affleck’s and Cheryl’s response is a great example of those who claim to have “Power”. This is just an example of their complete LACK of understanding of the seriousness of their crimes against the innocent and defenseless.
In some ways I can agree with you henoffour — yet personally I can wonder in the interest of moral integrity, how effective just getting rid of present top folks like Merlin, Mike etc would be. CSA has got a well deserved monopoly on focus just now …. but there are a hundred other issues regarding basic moral decency and Christian integrity that have gone on in the thick fog of 2×2 darkness for many years. Rolling it back from 100 issues of corruption to just 99 isn’t significant progress in my opinion.
Ditto!
@Edgarmassey – Yes, and we are working on those changes behind the scenes too. The whole ministry needs to be dismantled, and people who want to follow the scripture to help us implement rules and teachings that agree with Jesus teachings. The top brass of this ministry (overseers and overseers overseers) doesn’t care what the bible says, they are too busy covering for their “buddies” or “bedbuddies” or whatever they want to call them, AND we just learned that Ray and Barry told the workers in a workers meeting a little while back that they didn’t need to proselytize any longer, because there was enough people now to support them (financially)??? What??? So, it really is all about the money!! When I was growing up, I thought it was about sharing the Gospel/Jesus with everyone around the world, but apparently not?
”(The worker) Cheryl told her she was looking at it ….a group of happy people that love each other”. The Lord brings those people that follow Him joy. Joy is different than being happy. A group of people, all the people, can’t be happy all the time.
Also, “a group of people “, every person in the group does not all love everyone within the group. Actually, it is absurd to expect everyone to “love “ everyone else. If there is a predator in the group, is everyone to love the predator?
Plus, if everyone “loves “ everyone, what happens to that love when someone leaves the group? When people leave the group they are totally disenfranchised. The love is very conditional. Real love is not conditional.
This whole short essay is very flawed and makes the whole group seem like a cult.
”Most in the ministry have had criminal background checks done with the RCMP”. Most? Either all or none should have criminal’s background checks. Why are some people allowed to NOT have a criminal background check?
This organization, and it is an organization, acts like it’s their first day in business and not sure where to begin. Trouble is it is business as usual, and has been for the last 100 years. And everyone loves everyone. That is until someone in the “everyone group “ leaves. Then that person is forgotten. Forever.
Criminal background checks to check for pedophilia is a joke. Most of the time the predator gets away with their evil deeds, because by the time the family realizes that these men don’t care, and decides to go to law-enforcement, the evidence is gone!
”a group of happy people”….cult speak. I witnessed many being very fearful in the system, why so many committing suicide? Work based systems can’t bring about a joyful people because they are always working towards salvation. They don’t know and aren’t allowed to know what Grace is in Jesus.
Interesting fact.
(3) Each minister on the BC staff has completed a Ministry Safe course and has a certificate.
Each minister has a piece of paper. Paper! Really.
And if we considered the value of this we’d learn that Leanne, Aaron, Walter, Mark H., Dean B. and many others all had this piece of paper.
What most people don’t realize about the MinistrySafe courses is that they are not CSA childsafe courses, they are created by a team of lawyers to reduce the legal consequences for ministry groups.
It’s not that the courses are bad, it just has to be recognized for what they are as they are focused and have big limitations to train people on CSA.
https://ministrysafe.com/who-we-are/
This post is inaccurate: Have you completed any of our trainings?
The purpose behind the creation of ALL our training is to equip Christ-based ministries to PREVENT child sexual abuse, and REPORT suspicions and allegations of child sexual abuse.
CLEARLY, a one hour training isn’t going to comprehensively address the entire subject matter, which is ONE reason why we created many additional trainings addressing additional CSA topics, including seminary course content: Preventing Child Sexual Abuse in Ministry Contexts.
We have represented hundreds of VICTIMS of CSA, which formed the basis of our training offerings: we saw PATTERNS in CSA cases; the abuser’s grooming process.
Our perspective is, and has always been, unabashedly victim-centric, and we’ve been writing about this issue for over 30 years.
Before you speak negatively of someone else’s work, kindly fact check.
If you have specific questions or need additional information in order to do so, please reach out to me directly:
Kimberlee Norris- kdnorris@lovenorris.com
Founder/ MinistrySafe
Yes, I have personally completed the course recommended by the worker group. My opinion remains the same. That course was a good start but far from adequate.
You are doing good work but the course the workers have recommended is not nearly enough. You have added content since I took the course, which is good. It would be great if you were to bring in more expertise for dealing with allegations and caring for victims.
Any objective examiner of your system will identify it as having a legalistic lens. Again, that isn’t a bad thing, just not enough.
BGM-
When and how did you complete MinistrySafe training?
I don’t see you referenced in our system—
Nearly ALL of our training content, including 16 hours of seminary coursework, has been available online (via MinistrySafe) for over a decade, so not sure what content you believe was added after you completed the course recommended by the worker group.
Clearly I/we have NO control over the depth or amount of content recommended or required by your church or ministry leaders. That additional content wasn’t recommended or required isn’t attributable to us; ours has been available online for years.
A little background history. Around 2010, WINGS was focused on raising awareness, as awareness of CSA was almost non-existent in the fellowship. CSA was a hush hush subject. One of our WINGS admins searched out options for courses, settled on MinistrySafe, and presented the idea to Lyle Schober, the TX overseer. Lyle took it, liked it and had his staff take it. From there it spread out across the US, even some Australian workers had taken it by 2011.
WINGS liked the course because of its simplicity and that it was ideal for people completely new and unaware of CSA. The church had, and still has, a reluctance toward education and particularly anything produced by other churches so the culture was against any courses whatsoever. So MinistrySafe scored well on all points being designed for ministries, not part of another church system, simple, low cost, short time commitment. It was an excellent choice then, and still is good as an entry level training course.
I took the course fairly early on, probably 2011. If I recall, Lyle bought a membership which made it easy and low cost for multiple users but I took it on an individual basis (maybe $15 or so, long time ago but it was a reasonable cost). By the time I took the course, I had already studied the subject quite a bit having been involved with WINGS since 2009 and working on this subject for a few years before that. I didn’t learn anything particularly new for myself, but I was enthusiastic about it for people completely unaware of CSA and quite happy that it was being used by the ministry group in some areas.
BGM- got it- thanks- helpful.
yes BGM I can verify Lyles strong advocacy for the victims . He was in my home several months ago , with several different churches in our area, and said very strongly that he recommended ministry safe for all, not just the ministry. He also stated our policy is zero tolerance for predators. A younger brother worker than backed him up by stating yes to allow a predator in meeting would be like taking an alcoholic to the bar.
Back in 2011, we had 2 professing Admins from TX plus our main Admin, Scott Ross developed a regular rapport with Lyle. Those were hopeful days. We developed Guidelines over the next two years and sent them all over the world. That is when the disappointment started. We continued to have good dialogue and mutual respect with Lyle but we were generally treated as enemies of the meetings in spite of the fact that at that time, half of us were actively involved in meetings (today, almost all are involved in meetings…..hanging in so far). All we wanted from when I started in 2009 until today has been to support victims and protect kids…..nothing more nothing less. Yet we are still running into brick walls.
@Amen – and yet, Lyle Schober allowed Steve Rohs to attend Texarkana convention just this past October. So, nice words that there’s “zero tolerance”, but they are empty.
nice try Henoffour, the words I heard were after that convention. Let’s try for next October before calling his words empty. But you are free to say whatever is on your mind. It’s a lot easier to judge others because we pick the goal posts. Keep up the good work.
The obvious question is what specific policies have been put in place related to learnings of the ministry safe course?
All the ministry does is take the course, none of the learnings are applied.
Yes, these classes are good classes, but one must apply them to make effective change. No change has come from these classes, because our ministry is not about the people, but rather about the money they collect.
Worker Cheryl said those at the gospel meeting were “a group of happy people that love each other”. Overseer Afflect forgot to say that the “love” is CONDITIONAL on being a cult member. My wife and I left the cult after decades (both of us and our two kids were molested in some part by cult Friends and/or Workers). After we left, we were slandered by both the State Overseer and our longtime Elder (who we thought was our friend) – both are very well known. We supported this Overseer and his staff Workers financially for years and met with this Elder twice a week, plus potlucks. The Overseer even directed us to the State Friend who kept the State Trust Funds so that we could leave our estate with the State Friend (someone we did not trust). The Overseer, Elder, our former meeting group, and cult relatives have totally abandoned us, but that is fine – we are know in a much better place now. Plus, many of those mentioned above have been reported to the FBI for various misdeeds.
Bucky: Your understanding comes from great ‘abuse’ of yourself and those you love and are responsible to protect. We are very aware of the trauma this produces. We are very understanding also of how this ‘abuse’ allowed you to actually be honest enough to read God’s Word as written. This has allowed you and yours to be in a MUCH-Better Place. May the Joy of God; help you understand happiness Cheryl brags about is fleeing!