Date: Thu, Oct 26, 2023
Subject: A month of visits
Dear workers and friends,
Some of you have been wondering how my travels have gone since leaving my field a month ago. During this time I’ve had more than thirty in-person visits with people who are concerned about the state of our fellowship. Every day there are additional phone communications from concerned people. I would like to share with you some of what I have learned.
Many, many people are still hurting. This hurt comes from numerous places—abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust—the list goes on. I don’t claim to understand all the root causes. What I do know is this is not a time to say, “It’s not my problem” or “There’s nothing I can do.” We don’t have to be a therapist to reach out to people, sit together with them, listen with heart and learn from their experiences. Justifying, defending, or rationalizing to others how they “should” feel negates any benefit.
Compassionate listening can be accompanied by a willingness to help. A survivor friend recently said, “I wish they would just ask–What can I do to help?” This is the fruit Jesus said would mark a true prophet, the works James told us would prove our faith is not dead.
Along the way I’ve also had opportunity to visit with people who have other concerns. They fear that people are talking too much about negative things, or that doctrine is changing, or that people are losing their salvation. These are times to ask ourselves, “What am I afraid of?” Is the great God who we have put our trust in not able to preserve what is truly of him? Could he, in fact, be helping us see some ways in which we didn’t get it right?
Isaiah’s plea rings clear again, “Cry aloud, spare not; Lift up your voice like a trumpet; Tell my people their transgression.” We need to acknowledge and turn from evil and complicity to evil. After seven months, it seems we still have not come to this place of collective repentance. It’s not for us to tell people to ‘move on’ after two months, or five months, or any number of months, because they and God alone will decide when that time is.
Ones who step away or take a pause from meetings are frequently labeled as ‘the falling away.’ I have personally met with many of these friends, and I encourage you to do the same. The reality is that many people have left or have been driven out over the years for doing and saying what is right. Our operations have not been acceptably safe for women and children, despite leadership being previously warned of certain sexual predators. As someone recently wrote, “Stepping away from taking direction from someone who is showing questionable integrity is not the same thing as turning your back on God.”
For many, confidence in the ministry is still non-existent. Hearing words like, “Trust us, we are Spirit-led” doesn’t work, because those were the same words spoken before when wolves roamed freely in the sheep pen. I invite you to show humility and call together your ‘adversaries’ to know their concerns and how God’s Spirit is speaking through them. It helps greatly to listen introspectively and with self-reflection. Communicate regularly so that others know where you stand and what you are learning.
As a final note, it is unfortunately a pattern in these times of crisis for a church to discredit the character of victim-survivors and those who advocate for change. We are being presented with difficult information that challenges our perceived beliefs, and this may reflect poorly on our previous decision-making. I’ll share a few additional thoughts here in response to questions that have been asked:
1. My coworker and I made it clear in many conversations this year that we don’t desire to be ‘overseer.’ The alarming number of ‘bad apples’ who have been found in the overseer position through decades should cause all of us to stop and question the nature of a role that can foster poor behavior and unchecked spiritual authority. As it says in 2 Corinthians 1:24, ministers are not to have dominion over your faith, but are to be “helpers of your joy.” Many are asking how we can move in the direction of sharing burdens with others, as we read of in the book of Acts, so there can be better safety, accountability, and addressing of needs.
2. Listening to victims-survivors and having conversations about scripture-based changes to reverse a culture of abuse is not ‘making a following.’ I’ve seen peers also accused of creating a following simply for being a listening ear. Is this not a work for many to be doing? Jesus made it clear that the shepherd’s heart would be moved to leave the ninety-nine and go after the one. There are many ‘ones’ right now. There’s no need to bring an agenda, just a love for fellow humans, like Jesus. We will find that this kind of openness fosters good relations, and causes us to come away feeling that we received more than we gave.
3. Jesus said, “Whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock.” Paul wrote, “No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” I firmly believe in and have taught this foundation of Christ. We know the storm will wash away what is sand, and the fire will burn up what is wood, hay or stubble. If anything of our own words and actions has been such, we should invite God’s cleansing, that only what is firm and secure will remain.
Your brother,
Greg Swenson
630-[redacted]
[email redacted but available from WINGS] @gmail.com
WINGS Note: For Greg’s explanation that he was stepping aside from the ministry see https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/08/22/worker-greg-swenson-steps-aside/
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It must be hard to have put your faith and trust in men- who you felt were honest purveyors of truth. My son only had one request- that no child deal with the pain he experienced at the hands of a male minister. Dale Shultz’s response not that big of a deal. The simple request that a child be safe with the men of the ministry to some seems a joke. How do those of a good honest ministry separate themselves? If you expose the evil you are asked to find employment elsewhere. It is hard to understand how evil has found root- the apparent answer it was always there- man’s wisdom. We will continue to pray for those of an honest and spirit led ministry. I have spoken to those who know God has opened there eyes to see truth. May all who seek find.
Greg, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!!! This is what we have been needing to hear for MONTHS! I will be back in meeting tomorrow morning! Much appreciated, CL
Greg Swenson, thanks for truely caring, thanks for being a doer of God’s Word, thanks for taking action despite what others may say or do.
Louise; We too are grateful for Greg’s concern. His, seems to be real. What can he actually do besides listen? Who is financing his journeys?
Greg, is unable to realize when he quotes Paul in 1 Corinthians 3: that he is quoting Paul: as Paul explains to his church in Corinth that THEY HAVE CONFUSION. 1 Cor.1:6-:13.
What is the solution?
1 Cor.1:30. according to Paul’s good-news: ye are in Christ Jesus because (:27 – :29 God hath chosen) and is made us :30- :31.
1 Corinthians 2:7-:8 Paul speaks the wisdom of God in a “”MYSTERY””….
the important thing Greg leaves out as Greg quotes Paul is
1 Cor.3:8 – :15
Specificly: :10. Paul says. according to the “”Grace of God
which is given unto me
as a Wise Master builder,
“I have LAID the “foundation”!”
WHO of the 2×2’s agrees Paul LAID the “foundation” that they preach and believe???? We are sure Greg did NOT preach the “foundation Paul laid” as his Gospel. Jesus Christ is the foundation that Paul laid.
Why did Paul not build on the 12 apostles foundation; that Jesus gave to Peter in Matthew 16?
Until Greg is able to understand HIS Confusion about Paul having to LAY a Foundation, when Peter had already been given that responsibility; he will ONLY be the blind leading the blind. He will NOT know the “problem” or the “solution”. Greg just needs to understand the letter of Paul to the Ephesians and understand this ‘mystery’ which was God’s Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles. Then and only then will Greg have an answer to identify the problem and be able to give a solution.
It seems you are pretty sure about what Greg believes but it is in conflict with Greg’s own words. I would suggest talking to him directly instead of arguing here with what you think he meant.
Julie P. it does not matter what Greg thinks. He is an ex worker who has lost his way. He has gone over to the other side. So in retrospect what he thinks does not matter to the vast majority of folk going to meetings.
Greg – when we left the cult years ago due to being lied to about the cult origin and Irvine, you had harsh words against us. You had never reached out to us like you are now telling others to do. At this time, we do not want you or any other cult member to contact us.
Why are you even on here or reading this stuff anyway if you want no contact with them.
Just to help cult members think a bit. We all are free to read whatever we want, at least for now.
Righteous arrogance helps no one.
Watchman — Righteous arrogance? That seems to fit the bill for Greg Swenson. Righteous arrogance — if you attempt to approach God with your own self-righteousness, the only way to justify your righteousness is to bring up all your accomplishments before him and tell God why you should be declared righteous. ” I firmly believe in and have taught this…”, says Greg.
Righteous arrogance is something that someone sees in everyone else but themselves.
Sorry, but since those in the cult believe that they are in the the “only true way and God’s chosen people” (cult members say and hear this in every meeting) and all others are going straight to hell, cult members really should not accuse others as being arrogant.
Sorry Bucky (fake sorry like yours), but someone needs to inform you that Christians figure all non-Christians are going straight to hell. It is no different whatsoever from 2x2ism. You may want to adjust your “cult” radar as you are in one by your own definition.
Not sure if all non Christian’s are going to hell – God will be the judge of that. Not in any organized religion anymore. Never heard of a one person cult.
I’m curious as to why people who left the fellowship, just come across as angry and aggressive, like you were somehow “enlightened”, by what, I’m not sure? You clearly never had a true understanding of our faith, because of the things you write, Bucky. I don’t know where you live or grew up, but I was fortunate to grow up in an area where the elders were healthy and worked with the ministry (and kept them in check). We were never taught to look to the workers for anything, except to be respectful in the meetings (listen), and we ALWAYS opened our Bibles and read along with them, so no words could be left out, no verses could be taken out of context. My parents (even my father, who wasn’t professing Christ most of my life) had enough respect to insist we make time after breakfast for a Bible study together, and he encouraged thoughtful discussion about what was being read. Never did we assume that what a minister/worker said was true, unless there was scripture to back it up. We learned at a fairly young age that not everyone in the ministry was in that role for the right reason. Some were in it to travel around on other’s money while they looked for a wife, some were in it to bully, share false doctrine, or scratch-the-itch of their sick brain…and still, that didn’t change the fact that Jesus taught a way for us to bring joy to the heart of His father, if we followed what He taught. It’s not hard to pick out people who aren’t in the ministry or fellowship for the right reasons, IF we choose to invite the Spirit of God into our lives on a daily basis. You clearly do not know what a cult is. But, want so badly to sling hateful words. Also, if people were actually reading their Bibles to get to know God and His Son, they wouldn’t make false statements, like: “God is going to be judging us”, or whenever someone passed away: “they’re in Heaven”. Neither of those statements are true.
There will ALWAYS, in EVERY religious group, be corrupt people…because every human has a human nature, and unless WE individually open our hearts door to the Spirit, then we don’t have it! Has nothing to do with those in the ministry. We appreciate the ones who bring the Gospel, but they only water the seed that GOD put there. We do the weeding to be sure it stays healthy, and God does the pruning. May you find rest unto your soul, and peace, that you can enjoy whatever days you have left…instead of wasting them being angry and hateful.
FINALLY! YES! YES! YES! Would EVERY worker PLEASE read this and take it to heart!!
“Many, many people are still hurting. This hurt comes from numerous places—abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust—the list goes on. I don’t claim to understand all the root causes.” Many, many people are hurting you say due to abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust and the list goes on. And, you don’t know the root cause?! The fact that you don’t know the root cause is the same reason that there will be many, many more people hurt from abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust and the list goes on. You and your counterparts are NOT following Christ! When did Christ cause abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust and the list goes on? Never. You don’t know the root cause, and you will never find it. Simply because you are not looking for the answer. You, instead want to be the answer. Workers are not the answer. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Reality. I don’t see you revealing the “root cause” either so you are not helping and part of the problem. “Not following Christ” isn’t an answer.
Watchman, “Not following Christ” isn’t an answer”. Yes, that is true. However, following Christ” is THE answer.
“Following Christ” is a rather lazy prescription. Try to up your game with something useful.
See Greg’s previous post https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/08/22/worker-greg-swenson-steps-aside/
Greg, just by saying, “My coworker and I made it clear in many conversations this year that we don’t desire to be ‘overseer.’ ” You very well know that there will be an overseer. In your veiled “humbleness” saying that is not what you want, it is your utmost desire to be an “overseer”, ” a role that can foster poor behavior and unchecked spiritual authority”. Except, Greg, will be humble and not like all the other overseers. Greg, you’re so easy to see through.
This worker is FINALLY properly stepping up! How can you slap the good one’s in the face for doing what is right? SHAME ON YOU!
It really isn’t stepping up it is stating what should have been obvious years ago. Continuing to occupy a seat in meetings only emboldens the ministry to keep covering up. They think and pretty much are correct people continue to believe their lies. I’m glad Greg is speaking out but it would be better if he was a true example and left the cult.
Carolclausen — have you EVER said to a worker, “SHAME ON YOU”. NO? Yeah, I didn’t think you ever did. Workers are the elite. You follow THEM. Did you see what another person said on this thread, “we left the cult years ago due to being lied to about the cult origin and(William) Irvine, ( Greg Swenson) had harsh words against us. (Greg Swenson) had never reached out to us”. Carol, shame on Greg Swenson! Shame on ALL the workers that have turned a blind eye to the ALL the abuses. As Greg said, “”It’s not my problem” or “There’s nothing I can do.” ” Greg did just that. Greg did live, ““It’s not my problem” or “There’s nothing I can do.”” Greg knows, “Many, many people are still hurting. This hurt comes from numerous places—abuse, grief, betrayal, broken trust—the list goes on.” Greg said, “I don’t claim to understand all the root causes”. Greg is a blind man walking in an unlit room that he is unfamiliar with. Greg loves the status of a ” worker”. This religious organization is worker led. The workers are the ultimate. The very top. Jesus is not the top. Not knowing the root cause? Greg said, ” Every day there are additional phone communications from concerned people… I don’t claim to understand all the root causes”. The “root causes” is obvious and if you don’t understand what the root cause is, there is nothing anyone can do to help you. Ask, “where is Jesus in this picture”? The trouble is, and the root cause is, Jesus is not in this picture. Only Greg and the other workers are.
Carol, don’t take the bait of these hateful people. They spout off and point at others, while their hearts are filled with anger and hate. They lie about what we believe, and make statements that are as far from the truth as you can get, because THEY never had a true understanding. They use trigger words like ‘cult’ ‘they follow the ministry’, ‘etc and none of it’s true of people who are actually seeking to KNOW God. I have taken workers to task countless times (but, always cognizant of the One I serve), I free of choice attend meetings (where some come with the Spirit and actual bread for the soul – because they took time to meet with God in prayer and meditation, and others come and it’s clear they just grabbed a verse as they were driving to the meeting and it means very little to them. They are quick to take offense, and always looking for an argument.).
We do not follow the ministry.
I don’t care who ‘brought’ the ministry to America (or any other country, for that matter). God is well able to raise up messengers today as He was in Biblical times…and all through the ages. Did the man have a complete understanding, maybe, maybe not, but he did have the willingness to come and share what was laid on his heart. For that, I am thankful.
People also get caught up in and focused on how imperfect the ministry is…I expect nothing less, God chose them, not because they were ‘perfect’ (because no man or woman is), but because they submitted to His will to use them (or at least some of them have. Some, like Taylor Wood – who admitted he’d “never been called” – and others just wanted a free ride and free housing, etc.).
Look at all the people throughout the Bible that God used and loved, and they made terrible decisions! For example, David. He killed over a woman, Abraham had a son out of wedlock, Sarah doubted, etc.
Every single human fails (except Jesus) at some point, or we wouldn’t have needed Jesus.
Greg, if you’re really serious about knowing how survivors feel, I suggest posting your email so we can contact you directly rather than on Wings with your contact information redacted.
Greg included his email address in his original letter. WINGS redacted it, consistent with our usual caution.
We have edited the post to now disclose the full email.
Disappointing. I’ve been cautious for 58 after the abuse so now I’m throwing caution to the wind. I’m soon to be 73 and time is of essence for me. My email is billjohnson072000@gmail.com if Greg wants to contact me. Please don’t redact my email.
I wonder which law enforcement group he has contacted and he is working with. Have you reached out to the women at AFTT. Have you notified the overseers you will not be returning until all have stepped away from the ministry. I know this sounds harsh but if you are wanting change this must be done. Not to discourage your efforts but you know and I know it will never
happen. Too much money and power over others involved. The ministry must bury their pride and ego- then submit themselves to our Heavenly Father. Even then there will have to be a change never seen before.
We will pray you will be able to follow where God and Christ lead you and those of a true ministry.
Greg. Simple you are not in the work anymore please do not pretend you are. You are now the Rev Greg from the church of CCF.
You are not welcome if you try to come to meeting at my house. Please don’t travel around pretending you are someone when you are not….
Greg just took time off so he could listen, empathize, and learn how to be a better shepherd. I think his care and compassion is very Christ-like. If he hadn’t done this, he might have been asked to step aside because he believes and supports survivors. BEHOLDER: Take your vitriol someplace else.
NY Mom, I am a survivor. Meetings and workers are my safe space.
When a worker goes rouge like Greg has done there is no place for him. There is no place for CCF in the fellowship. That is my feeling and nothing will change that. I stand for the workers and friends, period.
i believe that no perps need to be in meetings, but I also believe that we need to support the ministry. i have been through more trama in my life than 99 percent. that’s not fiction, that’s fact. i know some need supported and we need to do that. but all have to overcome on there own.
Watchman, you say, ““Following Christ” is a rather lazy prescription. Try to up your game with something useful”. You expressed the very reason why there is such a mess in this group. Saying following Christ is not something useful. Christ is the most important and powerful force you can have in your life. The most powerful force on earth. If the instructions of Christ are followed, coupled with His Almighty Power nothing, or anyone can stop or interfere with that. It is lazy leaning on your own understanding and doing what you think. Giving into Him takes faith and only then will you be humbled, and lead and have strength through Him. And only then, with His Almighty direction, will your life, your families lives, and your church group have a solid understanding, foundation and direction.
Watchman, you say, “Christians figure all non-Christians are going straight to hell. It is no different whatsoever from 2x2ism. You may want to adjust your “cult” radar as you are in one by your own definition”. Watchman, being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Believing that Jesus rose from the grave, the same that all those that believe in Him, will also one day rise from the grave and abide with Him forever. If you call that a cult, sorry for you. Christ and His followers do not wish that any go to he**. Christian would like for everyone to be saved. He** is real. That is not a place that anyone is going to have comfort. Heaven though will provide peace, comfort and everlasting joy being in His presence. A personal relationship with Jesus is the only way that will be achieved. It cannot be achieved through simply belonging to some group of people. It is only through Him, Jesus, and having a personal relationship. You have to know Him and he, know you.
Thank you for your compassion empathy and common sense. You have the spirit and attitude of a true servant of God having more concern for the sheep than for yourself
I have thought for a while that calling them ‘overseer’ is not right or appropriate. I remember when they were called the older brother. Am overseer can ‘lord’ it over others and thinks he has a lot of authority. An older brother is part of the family and is there for you Two different things entirely
Keep up the good work and May God lead you where you are needed
Sharon, I like your thoughts. Concerning the terms Overseer vs Older brother worker to me they are just terms by which we converse among our selves certain characteristics that help us to distinguish different functions that those among us perform. To me the two terms are synonymous in that respect. When I hear either term the picture I get is pretty much how you have defined the function of an older brother. Unfortunately there are many on this site that no matter what term is used will bring out a negative connotation to it. The same is true of the term worker. From the letters of Paul there are a dozen different terms that could have been used amongst us to describe the functions that we use for the term worker. But again some will have a negative picture for any term that might have been used.
Beholder, you said you stand for the workers and friends, period. The culmination of the ages, the truly Good News, the entire story of the Bible from Genesis to Revelations, the only one who can save us is JESUS. I truly hope you can understand this, and modify your allegiance from people to our Saviour.