WINGS Note: Their previous letter was posted at https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/06/11/letter-from-friends/
To whom it should have concerned (Jeremiah 8:11-12, Ezekiel 13:10-11),
Actions speak louder than words, and the silence has been deafening these past months. This same silence compels us to speak. This is our testimony, and we stand and say it before God and before our brethren. James tells us “So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.” (James 4:17).
Three and a half months have passed since our last letter, enough time for there to have been repentance shown through actions and accountability shown through structural changes. What we have seen and heard has not been a response commensurate with the level of harm and betrayal we have witnessed. Most conventions have carried on with a business as usual approach, and many of the words said from the ministry there have been hollow and disappointing, ignoring what is going on around us. If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? (James 2:15-16).
Let us be clear: within the body of Christ there is no place for abuse, no place for lies, no place for evil, and no place for apathy. This should not be a difficult concept. Yet place has been made for each of these within this fellowship: amongst friends, amongst elders, amongst workers, and especially amongst overseers. And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground.” (Gen 4:10).
We see and hear the cry of survivors of abuse. Sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and spritual abuse. We are told “Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy” (Proverbs 31:9) and “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.” (James 1:27). We are commanded by God to speak up in the face of oppression and to take action. Speaking up, defending the abused, seeking correction and justice: these are all actions we would expect to see an outpouring of from a ministry following God’s word.
Yet consider the facts. Recent and ongoing investigations have shown that there are over 550 known child sexual abusers within this church, amongst the friends, elders, workers, and overseers. Roughly 40% of these abusers are or were in the work. Many of these known abusers are still alive today. These investigations have also revealed that most if not all overseers have known about the vast majority of these abusers and have either been abusers themselves, helped cover up the abuse and silence victims and families, or remained silent in the face of evil. It has also been revealed that most overseers continue to allow many abusers to remain amongst the flock and refuse to cooperate with those attempting to bring the darkness to light. In multiple states and provinces, including our own, perpetrators have been allowed in meetings, even without notifying those attending.
Consider repentance. As faith without works is dead, repentance without change is disingenuous. This is clear in scripture: “…they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance” (Acts 26:20).
Repentance is not difficult to identify and is not hidden behind coded language. Repentance does not downplay the wrong done, such as in the initial letter we saw about Dean Bruer calling his terrible abuses an “immoral double life”, or the recent letter from the overseers in the ministry which referred to the previous horrific handling of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse as “resulting in inappropriate outcomes”. Fostering an environment for abusers, pedophiles, and rapists is certainly an ‘inappropriate’ outcome, but a more accurate description would be “perpetuating and approving evil” or “making place for darkness and destruction”. Should this need to be explained?
Repentance is a central tenet to Christianity. The fruits of repentance include deep sorrow and humility. Shallow, empty statements that attempt to justify past actions or inactions are not repentance. Claims of ignorance that sexual abuse could have lasting harmful effects on a survivor do not show repentance. Are any of you so ignorant as to not understand that child sexual abuse and sexual abuse is irrefutably harmful and wrong without the aid of a short course or a policy? Should any of this need to be explained?
Consider accountability. It is evident that the ministry, in particular those in the overseer role, are in a position where they feel they can judge the spirit of those within the church and even remove them. Yet these same overseers – as made clear by recent notes – believe that they are the only ones able to judge the spirit within themselves. That is not accountability, it is dictatorship. But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave (Matthew 20:25-27). Jesus’ own words condemn this attitude. The very words of the Lord rebuke you.
Consider your own words. We have heard words of callous ignorance, including “There is no crisis here” or “This is a storm clearing away the dead branches from the kingdom”. We have heard weak words of “we neglected to handle things completely properly in the past”, or “we did not understand that sexually assaulting a child was so damaging”. The best we have received is apologies devoid of repentance and policies so full of holes that many predators can slip right through. That and a pat on the head and an admonition to just focus on Jesus. Yes! Jesus is the answer. Why do you ignore him by allowing what is evil in his eyes?
Consider peace. Peace is not achieved by pretending a problem does not exist. Too many in the ministry to whom we have spoken are content to remain ignorant of the greater crisis at hand, with excuses of not wanting to feed on what does not bring them peace and not wanting to go looking for problems. Yes, I suppose in the parable of the good Samaritan, the priest and the Levite had a more peaceful day by passing on to the other side. But consider Jesus’ words: “… Depart from me… For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me” (Matthew 25:41-43).
Worse yet, we have spoken directly to multiple brother workers who express what comes across as a pride in feeling that the people in their field know more about this crisis than they do. How little care for souls does it show, to not bother to understand the state of the sheep?
Consider love, especially as it is outlined so clearly in scripture: “If I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing” (1 Cor 13:2,3).
As we observe the events unfolding around us, there is a standard by which we can measure what we see: “Is this love?” As we listen to the words said by those in authority, we can see if words are followed by action and ask, is this love? As we look around at the actions that are taken, we can see whose benefit they are for and ask, is this love? When we see abuse, lies, apathy, and self-righteousness, we can ask, is this love? When a predator can say the right words and adhere to the right form, and those with authority judge them as worthy over a victim crying out in need but not fitting into the box of uniformity: Is this love? When intelligent, caring workers – especially sister workers – seek to advocate for victims and they are doubted, discredited, punished, belittled, and ostracized, is this love?
When an overseer or worker who has been trusted with a victim’s story lifts their head and looks away, crossing to the other side of the street, but an individual who has left this fellowship stops to render aid to the victim, ask yourself this question: Who showed love? Who in this scenario exemplifies the love of Christ?
Love stoops to help a friend in need; love wants to feel the pain its neighbours often know; love lends a helping hand to friend or foe. “If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.” (1 John 4:20).
What did Jesus answer when challenged on what was the greatest commandment? Was it “the ministry in the home and ministers without a home”, or was it to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbour as yourself? How did Jesus say that all men would know we are his disciples? Was it that we attend meetings without fail and follow every instruction given to us by the workers and overseers, or was it that we have love one for another?
When we allow in false doctrine, we give ourselves up to the control and fear of man. None is more harmful than the doctrine of exclusivity, which tells the lie that one must attend this particular fellowship and no other in order to be saved, and that before one can partake of the bread and the cup in remembrance of Jesus as he commanded, the approval of man rather than of God must be obtained. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever (Romans 1:24-25).
What we have witnessed is form and tradition as a proxy for the Spirit, and uniformity as a proxy for unity. We are told, “complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind” (Philippians 2:2), but this must be taken in context with verse 4, “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus”. We want to be one in mind and love, but we need the mind of Christ.
The history of this fellowship is rife with lies and coverups; it has hidden that its origins come from the late 19th century, it has erased the role of its founders and early leaders including William Irvine and Edward Cooney, it has had deep divisions from state to state and country to country, and it has perpetuated cover ups of all forms of abuse to keep the outward appearance clean. We see a deep systemic institutional failure over the years that does not in any way resemble the mind of Christ. Is this love?
Looking over the past decades, there have been many individual warning signs, but each was minimized and considered as small and isolated – maybe not to all individuals, but at least as a whole. And now the depths of the cancerous growths within the fellowship and ministry are becoming clear, growths of death and darkness which do not fit the pattern of the mind and body of Christ.
The lack of godly repentance, the lack of acknowledgement of the actions taken that caused this evil to fester, and the continuing lack of action to right the wrongs is deeply troubling.
Even to Judah it was said, “Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place… If you will not obey these words, I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that this house shall become a desolation.” (Jeremiah 22:3,5). Are we so arrogant as to think these words do not apply to this church?
There are 33 times where the Bible speaks of leaders doing what is evil in the sight of the Lord. In Revelation, the church in Ephesus is told: “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.’” (Rev 2:2). It is our responsibility as a church to try the spirits and test the fruit, and to reject what is not of God.
Paul says “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; … Walk as children of light … and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them”, (Ephesians 5:6-11) and David says “I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked.” (Psalm 25:6).
At this point, we simply cannot acknowledge the spiritual authority of those in the overseer position. We cannot partner with the works of darkness. We see that individuals, groups, and churches have come to you and you have neglected to heed our cries. Where is the integrity? Where are the basic moral values? Where is Jesus? We will follow the biblical path set out in Matthew 18 and now consider you as heathen.
While we have been disappointed in and betrayed by man, our eyes are open to the complete provision of God. We will continue to embrace true and honest fellowship, though not fellowship sanctioned by this ministry – we cannot lend even tacit approval to the works of darkness. But these past weeks have shone such a clear light on the joy and peace that can be found in trusting wholly in God’s leading. As was said to the rulers, elders, and scribes, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” (Acts 4:19-20).
The words in this letter have been strong, but they come from a place of love and genuine desire for this fellowship to repent of what is wrong and turn to what is right. God cares about you and about us. We challenge each of you to go forward and use your influence and position to stand up for others and embrace the mind of Christ.
With love and care for the survivors of all forms of abuse who have been wounded and betrayed in this fellowship,
Daniel and Shanna Faulkner
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Thank you, so much for this beautiful letter & for the verses to back up what you have written. May this crisis touch every heart so deeply that we all would be willing to take action!
You have spoken the things I have felt to the depth of my soul, but could not utter. Thank you for sharing your gift of clarity. I stand with the Lord and beside you for what is right. Thank you for you for your recent charity drive and for showing real love for others in need. You’ve inspired me again: https://www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/be-the-change-matching-challenge
Thank you for fluently and coherently expressing our thoughts.
Exactly
Very good, well thought out letter. It is apparent you speak for many. You summed up the historical, and present attitude, though, in two sentences: “When a predator can say the right words and adhere to the right form, and those with authority judge them as worthy over a victim crying out in need but not fitting into the box of uniformity: Is this love?”. With these two sentences, the answer is given if a solution is forthcoming. There is no answer that changes are to be made. The system will not change. What you said, “When an overseer or worker who has been trusted with a victim’s story lifts their head and looks away, crossing to the other side of the street, but an individual who has left this fellowship stops to render aid to the victim, ask yourself this question: Who showed love? Who in this scenario exemplifies the love of Christ?”. Living for Jesus Christ is easy, and enjoyable, without a worker looking around your house and over your shoulder. Help those people who need help. Show love. Live love. Matthew 22:37-39, ” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
For Christ: The chilling phrase “but when an individual who has left this “”fellowship”” stops to render AID”… THE “3 who forced and Demanded action” fits THIS very description. IS it a fitting reality that one has had to go through the BRUTAL realization that their life has been HI-Jacked by a Man Made Doctrine? Is it THEN and only then can one think clearly, with human dignity and LOVE for the hurting??? While the ‘faithful’ repeat platitudes and desire ignorance, while flocking to events and meetings.
The cost of leaving of “group think” and “complete obedience” is too high for most to reject. They will lose their complete identity if step away.
Why else can rational ‘intelligent people’ to protect a Man Made Doctrine in the depths of complete disregard for brutal, criminal destruction of their own, and protect the abuser, while destroying the victims and any who advocate for them. Is this the mind of Jesus?
Daniel and Shanna seek to shock their own into action in the “fellowship”.
Quoting Matthew 20:25-:27 explaining the ‘leaders’ need to be servants. Luke Records: Jesus words concerning this: 22:24 – :27. Then explains to “THE 12 Apostles” – Luke 22:23 – :28 I appoint unto you a “kingdom”, as my Father hath appointed unto me…..:30 ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, where? Jerusalem! and do what? It is all Jewish!
AND sit on 12 thrones “”JUDGING the 12 “TRIBES of Israel”(Math.19:28) Then In “New Jerusalem” For all eternity, – you read= Revelation 21:14
WOW! Is this THE Doctrine the fellowship is teaching?; when they are following Jesus in His fleshly ministry? Do you know in whom ye have believed? Do you know the Doctrine of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth in Matthew 5:, 6:, and 7:? Take-out a pen and paper and write a list as you read it: IS THIS YOUR Doctrine? YOU Actually, read Jesus ministry.
Ask yourself to whom John the Baptist; and to whom Jesus; and to whom the 12 apostles was sent? — to bring ‘Israel’ back to God?
Is this your Gospel of eternity to be spent on the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth promised 4000 years ago to Abraham? Do you know? Do you care?
Or is it The Gospel of the Grace of God given to Jesus’ Chosen Vessel unto me to bear “MY NAME” before the Gentiles….. Acts 9:15 and Ephesians 3:1-:9???
Daniel and Shanna quote the “Apostle” of the Gospel of the Grace of God. They embrace the mind of Christ given unto Paul. in 1 Corinthians 13:2, :3 and Philippians 2:2 :4. which is yours in “Christ Jesus”. The risen, ascended Christ was the ‘good-news’ = Gospel given to Paul. The 12 apostles never preached the Gospel of Our Risen Christ; only Jesus’ fleshly; earthly ministry. Daniel and Shanna mix these two gospels.
Paul explains: 1 Corinthians 11:1 without doubt: Be ye followers of me; even as I also am of Christ. Paul’s Gospel was hope of the Risen Christ. When man puts their own spin on God’s mind and will, it is “perverted” and is the product of 2 Corinthians 11:13 – :15.
The result is verse :13 and :14 explains WHY!
No wonder our “little ones” are destroyed without care or concern!
Amen and amen. My thought and feelings expressed much more clearly then they were coming to me but yes absolutely yes I agree. Not that this makes me joyful rather sorrowful but in hope that some will wake up and see and help change or at the very least have courage to step away and stand up for what is right. Amen.
Amen, amen
Had I the ability to express my thoughts clearly and the accompanying wisdom, it would be very much said as you have just again written.
Thank you.
When things started to unravel with the “workers” we were very close to, I was vocally adamant to them we had a very large number of deeply caring, friends. “Saints” that would not stand up for what we were just beginning to learn.
Nothing close to the extent of what we now know.
I am astonished that is not the case. I was very inaccurate. It is indeed the opposite.
What is it going to take to make the majority see or care?
As we watch our childhood home burn down, we wonder what will the remains be? How do we live with the years we failed to speak up and take action? So much unnecessary sacrifice and division has been caused by upholding traditions and culture and preserving the appearance of unity.
To those who remain:
Be the change you want to see in the world.
Women- put on a pair of pants (Google God’s intent for Women’s dress).
To all- Google the criteria of an apostle and see the workers will never meet that criteria and a homeless ministry was never God’s intent. Google the B.I.T.E. model. Be critical thinkers. God said to worship in truth in spirit- This means praying, seeking Him, and using our brains.
Jesus called you to be free. Be free on the man’s constraints and choose to be free in Jesus.
There are more people with you than you realize. This letter was one of the best I have read. It stayed very close to the crisis at hand. I can’t agree with the ones that have an agenda on other things. I will not be a part of some of the other things being brought out at this time. My advice is stay with the crisis at hand and it is more apt to bring results. I am one of the silent ones but I have all faith in the power of prayer
Thank you for having the courage and integrity to say what NEEDS to be said. I have said for months – IF these overseers had any integrity, any regret, any sorrow, any repentance they would have stepped down long ago. They would have removed THEMSELVES without anyone having to ask it of them.
In a side note I would like to share what someone said about repentance – he is not part of the fellowship. He said that CONVICTION leads to repentance, and without conviction there can be no repentance because there is nothing to repent of. And if we dont receive conviction and therefore repentance, we nullify what Jesus did on the cross. I would say these overseers, in particular, have lost, or never had CONVICTION. The evidence is in the fact that they have not REPENTED. Thus they nullify what Jesus did on the cross, and in effect nullify what He did in and with His life. In other words these overseers are dead spiritually.
Free in Christ — very well said!
“ Jesus called you to be free. Be free on the man’s constraints and choose to be free in Jesus.”
Thank you Daniel and Shanna!! It is so confirming to see your own thoughts and beliefs being penned by someone else! I could never have said it so clearly, so thank you so very much.
And yes, Darrin MacDonald, it really is shocking that the good Samaritans are the minority. I still just can’t understand that fact. It appears the Levites and Priests are just sorry there isn’t more sand in the ditch.
Thank you for your letter and continued struggle against deceit. People in authority are not displaying the character of Christ.
Thank you for expressing what so many are feeling. God is working among many to speak up for righteousness even if it means losing what is familiar and comfortable. The love Jesus has for all that come to his feet and weep is incomprehensible. I believe this love we can enter into will help us be able to see the clear path beyond traditions and putting Christ into a box. I have to believe God is stirring up those that want truth, that crave pure fellowship, and He will guide each heart into His love and care. Everything you wrote rang true to my heart and I never want to become ignorant of evil for the sake of peace. I hope we are all lead by conviction and truth – into a deeper more pure fellowship- whatever that ends up looking like, I am unsure.
Thank you for expressing my thoughts these past months. I appreciate the Bible verses to back up your thoughts. However, a very real thought came to my mind, are the people leading this “way” Christian’s? I remember asking the workers “what box do I check for my religion when I go to the hospital?” I was told “ we are not Christian we follow Jesus way.” Well maybe the scripture doesn’t really mean that much to the workers, if it did there would have been changes decades ago.
FYI: I CHECKED THE BOX CHRISTIAN !
Daniel and Shanna, thank you! You have stated the truth so articulatedly, and with love! May God help me not to attend anymore meetings, I am not apart of the meetings, have not been for several year’s, but attend with my husband and kids.But I feel strongly that I need to stop that, I dont want to support this fellowship in any shape or form, and pray others will follow.
We need to put our money were our mouth is!
“There has been 550 reports of CSA in the fellowship.”
“There has been 550 alleged perpetrators of CSA in the fellowship”
“There has been 550 known CSA abusers in the fellowship”
There is a vast difference between all three statements. Which is it? It has been stated these three different ways by those supposedly that know. I’m in no way side stepping that there is an obvious issue but some consistency in how the numbers are reported is sorely needed.
A friend too, AFTT FB page “featured” tab gives the statistic: “550+ perpetrators with allegations of child sex abuse and sex assault have been reported to the hotline.” That was as of Aug 24. Since the investigation team is the source, that is the fact we should use. https://www.facebook.com/groups/976456817047867/announcements
The victim-survivors coming forward would be a much higher count. I understand the point about wording being important. It’s understandable that so many people in-the-know, trying to repeat what we’ve learned with good intentions, sometimes mess up. Your post got me thinking, so I’m writing what follows more generally rather than in direct response.
The number of perpetrators with allegations will continue to grow with time. Whatever the numbers are, or how we break them down to understand – we have some significant problems which include both the CSA/SA itself and the root causes that allowed it to fester. Now what is being done about it? What are WE going to DO to increase safety for our vulnerable people, and care for the people that were most hurt by this? Who will help us? Let’s work together with others who want this evil exposed and removed from among us. We don’t have to agree on everything, but we also don’t want to argue with or resist people who have that same intent whether they do (or have ever) attended meetings or not. Reading Romans 13 in my NIV Bible has been a help to me these days.
One of many
Ok there is a concern. How many of these perpetrators are alive today? How many of these perpetrators are still in the work?
How many of these perpetrators are elders? How many are in each province in Canada? How many in each state? How many in Mexico? How many in Central America? Where are they?
Cynthia was quoted in an article saying the fellowship is “thick” with abusers. Does that mean every third person among us is a perpetrator? Should we be constantly looking over our shoulder?
@ A Friend too….The truth of the matter is that the 550 number or whatever… is not a number that can be relied upon. There is no doubt a problem however there are definitely those to want to make the problem seem larger than it actually is and there are many who see this as an opportunity to rehash their own sour grapes or grievances. Not everyone with a story to tell is being entirely truthful and honest.
It appears there are really 2 major problems evident at this time.
CSA which involves a victim who is 100% innocent. Those who harm children should be reported to law enforcement and removed from contact with children and should be punished asap.
Allegations of SA and all the other problems (real or imagined) people want rehash almost always involves 2 or more people who ALL share some degree of accountability before God.
Matt 18 contains the commandment from Jesus on how to deal with those that “trespass”.
Agreed. And what some won’t admit is that they really wanted to see the fellowship wiped out prior to Bruer and now they’re weaponizing the CSA/SA issue to do it.
This isn’t to say that there isn’t an issue. Some terrible decisions (not all can be blamed on ignorance) have been made. There needs to be accountability. There are a lot of perps that will never see jail time that really should. There are some overseers that really should step down for sweeping abuse under the rug. The love this fellowship but I have zero tolerance sickos.
100% innocent… real or imagined… another ignorant moron.
If there is one CSA victim that’s one too many, so why is most people concerned about weather there is 550 or what ever the number is .
Yes agree! And even if it was just 1 handled without integrity, without morality, without God’s laws and the laws of the country, its one too many, but this isn’t the case, there is 550 perputrator’s, and I havent heared of 1 appropriatly handled by the worker’s, that is scary people, very scary for a fellowship that claims to be Christian!!!
9882kb
Oh for sure, And of course you will never encounter them if you don’t come to meeting
Stop trolling and get back to grooming or shuttling predators around or whatever you’re doing in China RDH.
@9882kb…. true statement
Another lazy worker trolling off someone’s WiFi too much time on their hands. Meetings aren’t salvation so why are you protecting so hard?
9882kb
Yes of course and you would never see one unless you went to a meeting.
Thank you everyone who took the time to comment. We’ve been encouraged by the love and support we’ve felt around this letter, and we love each of you.
A quote I like which I fear applies to this situation is “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” It’s not a perfect fit, but it seems to me that for the overseers to understand and acknowledge the scope and depth of the situation would be for them to give up place and privilege. But we can keep praying and helping where we’re able.
Thank you “One of many” for posting the link to the ongoing donation drive: https://www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/be-the-change-matching-challenge
Please consider giving if you are able, the lifelong costs for even just therapy for a single survivor are staggering, and there are thousands needing help!
Also, we’ve found the very open dialogue at Connected and Concerned Friends encouraging. If you’re not there, here’s a link to join:
https://connected-and-concerned-friends.mn.co/share/AdoaC-IhHww2HJJa?utm_source=manual
Daniel Faulkner
Why are you writing letters? It’s pointless. You are asking what are essentially mafia-like leaders to stop being corrupt?!?! How naive. Get it through your head – the 2x2s are cult and if you like cults then stay, if you don’t like cults then leave and stay away. Asking to reform a cult to make it less culty??? My friend, the people in the cult WANT to be in a cult, they WANT to believe they are in THE ONE TRUE WAY. Yes, it’s a psychological problem, and yes the 2×2 leadership is exploiting these people, but you are never going to get this train to stop running. There is always a supply of sheep, and there is always someone willing to shear them.
Nail on the head Elaine ! Could not of said it better.
Elaine S, any thinking person, with experience in the truth organization would have to agree with you: “Why are you writing letters? It’s pointless. You are asking what are essentially mafia-like leaders to stop being corrupt?!?”
Elaine s and For Christ: What brutal reality! We shudder to think of the mind control we so humbly – plodded on; – til we actually read God’s Word as written. Yes, the very verses in Matthew 10:5 – :7, 28:19-:20 and Acts 2:41-:46 that they claim they follow. ARE you of the Jewish religion?
Then we read Galatians 2:1-9 specific :7 How could this be? Two Gospels?
Try Romans 3:21-:26 “BUT NOW” THEN actually read BOOk of Ephesians; a nut shell is 2:4-:9 But God:
Nation of Israel was blinded:Romans 11:7-:11 will help explain :25 – :27,
It is impossible; CCF, to be followers of the
#1.Jewish religion many referred to as the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth((BUT forget it is an earthly Kingdom promised to Abraham and the prophets and the Fathers)); Many, many religions do…
#2. and to be of the Body of Christ!!! Which is the Dispensation of the Grace of God given to Paul for the Gentiles!!!…. Many religions are trying! ALL of man! 2 Peter 3:15-:16 which the Unlearned and unstable “wrest”
An excellent understandable explanation is 2 Corinthians 11:13 -:15
Yes, we admire you desire to help! Yes, we understand you feel with sheer numbers you will be able change the leadership; wring admissions of guilt; and demand apologies for the victims; and demand healing for the victims. It is a hard lesson::: BUT no one can change “satan”. However “satan” will change enough to be seen as an angel of light. 2Cor.11:13-:15
CCF, we so understand your desire to “make whole” any and everyone who has and are being abused in any way, by the 2×2’s. That lays heavy on every honest heart. BUT you are “unable” to have the mind of “Christ” until you understand there is a difference by the very plan of God, between the kingdom Gospel Jesus preached AND What the Risen, ascended Christ gave to Paul to preach to the Gentiles: Ephesians 3:1-:9
Romans 15:8. #1. That “”Jesus Christ”” was a “minister” of the “”Circumcision””(Jews) “For the truth of God”, to confirm the promises MADE unto the Fathers::which ones?? seed of Abraham! JEWS!
AND #2. Romans 15:15 – :18 Paul writes: the “grace” that is given to me of God :16 that I, Paul, should be the minister “”of Jesus Christ”” to the Gentiles…. THESE TWO are Not and cannot be the same!
Please CCF; you have a large host of souls who desperately want to help the victims. You have enough understanding to state: you will not support ‘fellowship’ sanctioned by this ministry. ((Unless What?)) WE ask: is there any other Kind???
We understood all other had been destroyed.
Please listen to Elaine S and For Christ. Theirs is reality!
Please lend your members and their resources to Wings and to Advocates For Truth. They have a deep need for able and willing hearts and minds: and a deep understanding of the rulers of Darkness and will be able to guide how and what will be of the most benefit.
Thank You for your Deep concern and Your willing heart.
What astounding gibberish.
delshirley1: Thank you. We toooo have been in your mind-set! For years!
AND if the multitude who are of your thinking: makes something true! – Then you are correct! Almost all man-made religions who call themselves Christians; agree with you. ALL the ‘promises’ in Bible are mine!
Does that mean you are correct? NO!
If you are able to read as the very ‘Spirit of Christ’ has written; without the interpretation of man, and are willing to understand EACH Word has meaning::: you will soon learn Denominations each pick-out what they want. AND put their Name on IT! AND publish as their Doctrine. Are they all reading the same Word of God? And then in last century have agreed to disagree; but accept each other as brothers in Jesus.
If you are interested; and by your reply; you Indicate you are: JUST Do as we did to prove this “gibberish” wrong.
Actually read your Bible as written!
Try doing Matthew 5:23-:25, try doing ALL of Matthew 18,
including :15 – :20 as Jesus instructed his 12 chosen apostles as Jesus prepared them for Luke 22:28 -:30. (That Jewish ‘church’ the Temple was destroyed in “70AD”). God removed the ability to do as he commanded. Do you feel God was not able protect His Holy Temple”?
Then try doing the Apostles Doctrine as recorded in Acts 2:41 – :46.((God even removed the Temple in 70 AD: therefore it is impossible to do as Jesus commanded – demanded; or even as the 12 Apostles “Doctrine” demanded. WHY?)). So what does God want, NOW?
Exactly, not as man has warm, fuzzy, changed but says is what it means.
Those 12 chosen Apostles; now had the VERY – Holy Spirit to guide them.
AND you say Acts 2:41 – :46 is gibberish? Please explain.
Romans 11:7 – :11 explains what happened to God’s chosen Nation of Israel.
Why? were that Nation of Israel “blinded? :11 – :12, :15
Then explain to me and to you :25
Romans 11 :26 and :27 SAYS what? Why, after the fulness of the Gentiles be come in?; does God save Israel? Who are the Gentiles? Why does God’s Word record God’s promises to “Jacob” (= Israel)in His covenants will be then and only after the “fulness of the Gentiles be come in”.
Why is this “discussion” on Wings important?
Because God in His Word answers all questions.
This is an answer with complete understanding; WHY? and HOW the “One True Way” can destroy it’s own for a century and NOT EVEN KNOW IT IS WRONG”! YES, Those who claim to be chosen and sent by God. They are able to continue because those who also claim this exclusivity continue to give them place and authority. Jesus explained and warned as his 12 came to him in Matthew 24; there would be many who shall come in MY NAME,… and “deceive MANY”! 2 TIMES! :4 and :5
24: 3 the 12 ASKED Jesus questions!
Jesus FIRST answer WAS to warn them!! How can ‘no one deceive you’?.
IT is your responsibility to KNOW God’s mind and will.
HOW can you know? You are able to read God’s Word as written.
Astounded wrote”IT is your responsibility to KNOW God’s mind and will.
HOW can you know? You are able to read God’s Word as written.”
No my friend it is not my responsibility to know Gods mind, it is my responsibility to become a little child so God can reveal Himself to me. He will hide these things from the wise and prudent and reveal it unto babes. If we gain not a love for the truth God will send us a delusion that we will believe a lie.
I do not call any of Gods word gibberish, I am only referring to your words.
delshirley1: Thank you. You are correct. It is impossible to know ALL of God’s mind and will.
However, you must Read Deuteronomy 29:29 The secrete things belong unto the LORD our God:
BUT, you, delshirley, read the rest of that statement in verse :29. :BUT= “flip side”: means “PAY ATTENtion”! YEP, here comes responsibility!
BUT those things which are ‘revealed’ belong unto us and OUR Children!
How do we know what has been revealed?
Yes, I made a terrible mistake; we can only know what God has revealed!I did not clarify that it is what God has revealed in His Holy Word, that we are responsible to know.
I am unable to find your reference of “becoming a little child so God can reveal himself to me”. BUT Math.11:20 Jesus was upbraiding the cities where he had Done His mighty works((The signs to Jews – Jesus is their Christ)). WHO refused Jesus? THE very “religious leaders” who knew God’s Word)). Where is the NOW problem? Religious Leaders! The wise and prudent! THEY do not recognize they destroy the ‘little ones’.
1 John 2:3-:7. How does one Keep God’s commandments unless we learn them. Do you think God reveals them to you because you ‘become a little child’? How does God reveal them to you? In a vision? Does he call you by name and say: Forget everything in MY Word and NOW: do this!
2 Thessalonians 2:10 – :12 To understand what is recorded; you must read the entire sentence :8 – :10. wicked be revealed – whom God shall destroy. Revelations explains when! Who are those who are destroyed? Gentiles. Why? What is the “truth” they had no love for?
1:12 “according to the “grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ”.
What was God’s Grace? Ephesians 3:1- :9, 2:4-:9, 1 Corinthians 15:1-:4
1 Thessalonians 4:14. for if we believe- = the Gospel of the Grace of God.
God has revealed this Gospel thru Paul. God has by the Spirit of Christ recorded this Gospel for our obedience. The Gospel of Grace has been “revealed”. It is your responsibility to know, understand, and believe. If you do not receive the Love of this TRUTH; as Paul explains to those in Thessalonians and you believe a Man Made Religion – the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders:, God shall send them a “strong delusion”: Yes, you shall believe a lie!
AND this is why there is and has been such unbelievable, twisted and terrible abuse and cover-up: with the NOW refusal of responsibility. Sorry.
Before we talk of how we know it’s a revelation from God, can we first talk about the ministry that Jesus sent forth? Of course first their was 12 sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The best I can tell that was about 1 year from his death. Than about 9 months later He sent out 70 more. They were to go to every village and place where He would come. As He was sending them He told His disciples the harvest is great but the laborers are few, pray ye to the Lord of the harvest that He would send mores laborers into His harvest field. I believe in the Acts and letters of the New Testament we see lots of evidence that those prayers were being answered after Jesus death. No surprise it says Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. Before the Passover Jesus said he that receives whomsoever that I send receives me and he that receives me receives My Father. I believe that prayer is still being answered, that’s what opened the Bible to me. It was a closed book before.
delshirley1, many of the things you say I agree with. That being said as I am getting ready to go to meeting, what you said about laborers being sent. We should all think of ourself as laborers seeking those who want to know Christ. What upsets me is the ones who think they are in charge have gone too far and trying to make themselves important. Some are real legends in their own minds. Mistakes have been made and they will not come to grips with it. Some of the in-charge ones should step aside and leave.
PD- I have no problem with your thought on each of us being a laborer to help bring others to Christ. Our own experience was first hearing about this gospel story from a couple on a remote ranch. A couple I had worked for as a kid long before the workers had ever visited that ranch. We heard of their experience until 2:00 in the morning. Nine days later we got home from our trip, and 15 minutes later the worker came to our house. Yes there is a Lord of the harvest still sending forth the laborers all working together with him.
delshirley1: I appreciate your experience and your response. However, explain to us HOW ‘hundreds’ of religions read that very same record and make their very “doctrine” from the very same verses you claim to be “Doctrine” for Your Religion. If that is true; you would be able to go to any church or assembly based on God’s Word. Hundreds x Hundreds of members of religions world wide send into the Harvest field. All follow some of the SAME creed of your doctrine.
PD: 2 Corinthians 5:18 – :19 The “apostle” Paul ((whom the “Risen – ascended Christ chose to go to the Gentiles(non-Jewish Nations)) says exactly what you “think”.
:18 (a) All things are of God who hath ‘reconciled’ us to himself
(b) AND hath given to us the ministry of “reconciliation” (what is that?)
Read :19 To “wit”…. EH! – GET IT? :20 says we are “ambassadors” Got It?
Result is: ‘we pray in Christ’s stead, ye be reconciled to God!!!
THEN look WHAT Happens, :21 We have the “righteousness of God” in Christ!!! (( Yes, you read it for yourself!)
WOW! did your “Doctrine” ever teach that to you? Yes,that is what it says!
Your thought of the Leadership and their “mistakes” IS the very reason in Matthew 21:42-:43 THAT Jesus removed those God had appointed when God gave the Law and commandments to Moses to the rulers of God’s House; the Temple: which was the very Government of Israel.
Luke 22:28-:30 Jesus appoints the 12 to that position :30
BUT delshirley1; after Acts 12: your “workers” example of the 2×2’s completely disappears! WHY? After that they are NOT Preaching!
ACTS 15: Records THE 12 IN Jerusalem trying to defend themselves. Galatians 1:7 shows they Perverted the Gospel of Christ that Paul and Barnabas were preaching the “grace of God”. AND the NEW leader of the 12; and Cephas and John “”back-off””! WHO IS Preaching?
What does God reveal to you about that? You read Romans 11:7 – :11. God blinded Israel! 11:8-10 records it had been “prophecied”!
Romans 11:25 records what is happening “until”: then :26 – :27 explains God will fulfill His promises and “covenant” to Israel. WHO are you?
After God again speaks to Nation of Israel in Hebrews about their New Covenant; we have ‘record’ of three of the 12: James, Peter and John writing letters to their Jewish converts who were scattered from Jerusalem. You do not read of the 70 nor of the 12 preaching to anyone “the promised Kingdom of Heaven on earth”. You only read of those 3 encouraging that flock to be faithful and assuring them God will fulfill his promises of a Jewish Kingdom of Heaven on EARTH.
OUR only concern here is that::: This so called “only one right way” MINISTRY ((which you uphold as being revealed to you)) “has fruit of satan”) and is not willing to fully admit and expose their works of satan.
PD does understand they do need to step aside and leave. BUT that will not change the strips of a Man Made Religion that is not according to God’s Word. They cannot follow Jesus very Words of His Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. Just try to do Matthew 5:, 6:, 7:! Just try to follow the 12’s ministry in Acts 2:14-:36 and the 12’s Doctrine in Acts 2:41 – :46,
and 5:42. You try to worship as those who believed; “worshipped 2:46”. You, delshirley1, try to worship as the 12 did in Luke 24:52-:53 and Acts 3:1. Everything I said is God’s Word. It is not gibberish. Thank you.
DelShirley every family in the ‘truth’ have a nice beginning story unfortunately many like me have family testimonies riddled… yes riddled with rapists and molesters (all brought out in the last 4 months). Multiple generations of assaulted family members and we keep uncovering hundreds hundreds hundreds hundreds hundreds of vile evil perps. I’m thankful it’s being exposed and family members feel now they can come forward and start some healing (alone because of a zero empathy ministry). Jesus didn’t send this ministry of rapists and molesters and those who would hide it, spread it, protect it and then leave victims in a pit left for dead, fearing man and man’s justice over Gods. I was lied to my whole life and yes I’m mad, disgusted, sad, disappointed, trapped in this $*+ show generations professing and my kids profess. Yes I’m angry. Lies. Where are the millstones?
I feel your pain. Glad to hear your children are still professing. You have no doubt seen some terrible evils within your family. In our area we have been blessed with a lack of the evils you have witnessed. We have found out long after the time that convicted perps have been through here but for whatever reason did not do their evils here in our area. I believe that Jesus summed up what we can expect in the parable of the sower. Only a very few would have a good beginning and continue on to bring fruit unto perfection. Many would have a good beginning but eventually revert back to their own evil human nature. God didn’t desire it to happen that way, but He knew it would happen that way.