WINGS Note: THis report was prepared by one of the friends.
Scope of the CSA/SA Problems
Current data collected by reports of CSA after March 2023:
As of July 14th, 2023, there are credible allegations against 550 abusers.
What this means is that per capita, we have surpassed the Catholic Church for abusers. This means that the chances of knowing an abuser, having had them in our homes, or meeting with them in fellowship are extremely high. Every family has been touched by this CSA crisis in one way or another.
Each perpetrator has a minimum of 2 separate allegations, meaning there is a minimum of 1500 victims. (and reports continue to roll in).
What this means, is that in every meeting, there will be a minimum of 1 or more survivors in that meeting. Every meeting needs to be a safe place for our survivors. This means that family, friends and those we meet with have been fighting battles we did not know about. Learn how to support them, the proper language to use and be an advocate for change. It is impossible to know the exact number, partly because SA and CSA are rarely reported. (Less than half of SA cases and only about one in 10 CSA cases are ever reported to authorities.) Based on statistics about how many victim-survivors a single perpetrator abuses, these reports could indicate 5,000-8,000 people subjected to SA or CSA within the Truth.
Around 21 workers in the US and Canada have been removed.
What this means, is we have an unusually high number of perpetrators in our ministry. This means that we have been left vulnerable and unprotected as we have been encouraged to trust our workers. This also means that steps are being taken to listen, learn and remove those from their place of ministry due to allegations.
At least 15 or more workers have left on their own due to mental health or personal convictions (just in 2023 so far).
What this means is our workers are under a large amount of stress. These conversations have been triggering for them. They have been encouraged to continue with gospel meetings and conventions despite their own mental health. Those who have tried to speak up have been pushed to the side. They are not experts in the field of CSA, marriage counseling, or financial matters, yet over the years they have been made responsible for advising in those situations. We need to normalize taking rest/breaks from the work, if they need a rest or are dealing with issues that hinder their ability to preach an honest transparent message. I hope every worker realizes that we love and support them regardless of their place.
8 or more elders have had public allegations made against them.
What this means is we have been choosing dangerous men to serve as elders. Is it possible that we have been choosing based on home size and parking rather than the qualities we read of in 1 Peter 5. We have ‘forgiven’ past CSA sins and given eldership to those who should not be in the presence of children. Creating an unsafe environment for children, survivors and vulnerable people.
Some CSA crimes happened 20 years ago so some people think it should stay in the past.
When you say, ‘it happened 20 years ago’, you are saying that you don’t care about the trauma of the survivor, which lasts well beyond 20 years. Survivor trauma lasts a person’s whole life. When you say, ‘it happened 20 years ago’, you are saying that you are not concerned about the predatory habits of an abuser and that you think it is reasonable to put children at risk rather than hold an abuser accountable to the consequences that are the result of the abusive behavior. God’s arm is not shortened to abusers. An abuser can find help from God. They don’t need to do that by putting innocent children in harm’s way.
6+ Conventions have been canceled and/or adjusted this year (some by workers, some by the owners).
What this means is many convention owners are not willing for the liability that comes with a convention ground where predators are allowed to attend. This means that convention owners understand the seriousness of the crimes and are willing to take a break from convention this year until our fellowship is in a safer place.
98% of CSA/SA allegations are proven true (only 2% are false allegations).
What this means is if someone discloses abuse to you, you should believe them. Chances are extremely high they are telling the truth. Be supportive. Have empathy. Of the 2% that are false, they typically have to do with custody arrangements and money. Neither of which applies to these situations. Coming forward with an allegation takes immense bravery. There is little reason for someone to face the obstacles of reporting SA and CSA if they were not abused.
Some People say that everyone should be innocent until proven guilty.
Actually, a guilty person is always guilty, whether it is proven or not. The law in the USA and other countries is that a person is “presumed innocent” of a criminal offense in a court of law until the state proves him/her guilty. This does not mean that a charged person isn’t guilty and/or dangerous to others. This statement is not meant to inform whether or not individuals set boundaries in order to keep people safe. The wrong statement speaks of absolute innocence; the correct statement is limited to a legal presumption of innocence applied during prosecution.
Only 16% of CSA allegations are ever reported to law enforcement. Less than 4% ever lead to conviction due to statute of limitation laws and other factors. It takes 20 to 40 years on average for survivors of CSA to come forward.
What this means is that survivors face a lot of barriers when it comes to reporting. Our court system is not victim friendly. There is often no ‘proof’ and it is hard to take to court. Survivors take years to process the trauma they experienced as the result of abuse as children. And even as adults, are plagued with shame and doubts. They want to be heard, but going through the courts is triggering and retraumatizing for survivors. We cannot build a culture of safety by relying solely on law enforcement to handle everything, and expect that survivors of abuse will come forward quickly and simply. Often we must use discernment to determine that certain behaviors pose risks to others, even if law enforcement hasn’t been involved. Those behaviors have consequences and those consequences need to be upheld to protect children.
What does this mean for Canada?
The perpetrator count for Canada was 50+ as of a few weeks ago. Canada has no statute of limitations and therefore survivors can come forward to law enforcement with no time limits. (We know that trauma has no time constraints so Canada is ahead of many countries here). What this also means is if we are knowingly putting alleged perpetrators into meetings with children and in peoples’ homes, we too can be held accountable by the courts. That is where the push to listen and take every allegation seriously comes from, to have meetings be taken out of homes of perpetrators and asking those with allegations to not attend meetings or conventions.
This also means that we need our leaders to be educated on disclosures. We don’t expect you to be experts–but we ask that you are willing to listen and seek advice from trained professionals. We have many abusers who are currently in meetings with survivors, children, and potential victims. Without relationships with the experts, who have experience in dealing with sexual offenders, a pastor or community can make grievous decisions that may unintentionally wound a survivor. We ask that you respond to disclosure of abuse with love and concern for their safety and the safety of others. We ask that you not shame those who are speaking out and asking for meeting changes.
Last of all this means that other states and provinces are beginning to listen. They are realizing that we need to prioritize the survivors, those who have been silenced so long. They are removing those with convictions-past and present, and those with allegations of CSA/SA from eldership, meeting and conventions. They see this is for the safety of children, survivors and vulnerable people. They are consulting professionals to create procedures to ensure that everyone knows what to do in the case of CSA/SA. They are putting in boundaries to ensure we keep our youth safe. And they are spending time listening to those who have been hurt so deeply. Trauma has no time limit and no miracle cure. They are also holding worker workshops to educate themselves and learn about selfcare.
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” per capita, we have surpassed the Catholic Church for abusers”
The “truth church” and the Catholic Church, both say they are His Church. Interesting both church groups are known for the sick, sexual predators that exists in each. Also, both organizations are notorious for their sexual abuse cover up operations, as much as the sexual abuses themselves. It makes one wonder if it is the claim to be “His Church”, that makes this awful evil to exist within these groups? Having the feeling of being self-righteous, or having a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior, could that be the impetus that drives the depraved immoral thinking? Does that lead to this despicable behavior? Both of these groups have a belief of superiority to the Christian community in general, or those simply following the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I think rather than that it is the fact that workers and priests are not ‘allowed’ to be married that has opened the door to this. I don’t know how scriptural this is but it has been the practice for a long time
In my parents day there were two married couples in our area. One couple had a child. That didn’t turn out so well the one with a child
Other couple went to another country after a while
Being celibate does not cause anyone to molest children. Being unmarried doesn’t cause anyone to rape. Not one worker is forced to be in the ministry. If one can’t abstain then they are always free to leave. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior.
Sharon – allowing workers to marry does not prevent CSA. The man that molested me was married to the most beautiful, lovely woman. Bring married did not prevent his sexual attraction to pre-pubescent girls and acting on it.
Statistically there is no correlation between celibacy and sexual abuse.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
For Christ: to add to your post; this happens in every Man Made Church: that is the reason they ALL carry a hefty liability insurance Policy. AND guess WHAT?! That insurance Company uses their “well versed” attorneys to give any ‘claims’ : a “you don’t know what hit YOU” – approach. So before you even get in a “hearing before a Judge”; you are whopped! And you are NO LONGER a valued “Member”! The goal is to just make you and your issue “GO-AWAY!
If you have noticed; “over seers” do not just have a lawyer: they have a group of legal – to help them to even write-up a simple message to send to us ‘Morans’. How many oversea’s trips for conv or sp. privileges has that wiped-out?? Colorado must have quite a Kitty; because they still have funds for over seas trips.
To explain’ man made churches’: Just pick-up a “brochure” as you enter any church which “proudly” gives you their “Doctrine”: who, how and when it was started. Then search for what it split from and why. For example: Explore the Church, which NOW, calls itself “Celebrity”, and it’s blood line with reasons for separation. A now popular Doctrine is “Grace” in the Name but does not know or care what the Word of God actually records as the “Doctrine of Grace”.
One NOW needs to be very diligent to find their actually Doctrine; because it is often NOW hid with warm, soft, fuzzy platitudes that state How important “YOU” are to them. ((the ‘truth church’ is NOW learning this tactic))
This could be the “truth church” and Catholic Church Doctrine both include they are His Church and their Doctrine lead to CSA as a result of being “his only church” BUT that does NOT explain WHY so-called elders seem to think CSA is their “right”. Nor why cover-ups are the norm for “overseers”.
Nothing explains “WHY” they feel it has been AND is O.K..
Nothing explains “WHY” they do NOT have basic Human Dignity.
Nothing explains “WHY” why their excuse is OH, we JUST NEED ‘education and training’. THEN ALL will be GOOD!!!
Both groups claim to be guided by Jesus, Himself. STOP! blaming Jesus!
If there have been 240 workers credibly accused then the likelihood of abuse against a member (all time)by a worker comes to
240/500,000
.048%
Catholic Church with 7000 credibly accused clerics in the US and a US membership of 66 million
7000/66000000
.011%
As a member of the truth you have had a 4.3 times higher chance of being abused by a worker than a Catholic member being abused by a Catholic cleric.
This doesn’t take into effect how many abusers in the truth have been elders. An elder would have a similar level of influence/power as a Catholic cleric. So this 4.3 times higher 2×2 vs Catholic number is on the low end of actual. Maybe 5 times more abuse, maybe 7 times?
Catholics count only priests,
Cynthia has been counting workers, elders, friends and all. That is two different and unrelated ways of counting things.
To be comparable, count priests and count workers only
Catholics count only priests,
Cynthia has been counting workers, elders, friends and all. That is two different and unrelated ways of counting things.
This appears to be well worded, glad it was shared
Why dont you list all the 550 or go to law enforcement if what you are saying is true. You presentation of number are like the polls which can be manipulated to whom evers favor. In the example of politics remember Hillary Clintons polls? You need to state real facts that we can read on official legal documents. Not just what you are stating. With your way of handling this wont satisfy any one except those who have had an agenda for ages. I am not denying anything concerning victims. I am just saying you need valid evidence of those numbers you refer to in the fellowship.
This just simply isn’t how it works, unfortunately. Most of these cases are past the statute of limitations, some of the alleged abusers are dead, many of the survivors don’t feel safe or ready to name their abuser publicly, etc. And sometimes when you do name someone publicly, you are met with harassment and threats of legal action if you don’t shut up – ask me how I know.
We don’t get to make those decisions for survivors, and we just have to sit in the unknown sometimes and trust those survivors.
That’s not to say that we can’t ask clarifying questions, but your questions aren’t in good faith and show a large gap in understanding of how CSA cases / experiences work.
Abbi: For you who really DOUBT! Abbi has YOUR ANSWER! Experience has a WAY of “educating” and removing ALL DOUBT. Oh, that we ALL could be given the blessing “of NOT understanding”!
Geee Brian, sounds like you just stumbled into this conversation (but to most it’s an evil epidemic). Most people I know who have an ‘agenda’ have been raped, molested or someone close to them that has by a worker or ‘friend’. I think you’re on to something that people who are posting info should have higher standards than ‘The World’ (“ “ because anyone outside of the Truth is looked down on). Hmmm maybe an organization who proclaims they are the only True Way and True Ministry should have higher standards than anyone or any group? What would happen if your supervisor or your child’s teacher had allegations of sexual assault or molesting people at work or children at school? Move to another department, location or classroom? It’s just she said he said right? Get over it and put your kid back in that class room. We all have human nature right? It’s just normal everyday human nature to molest children right? Alls forgiven just put your child back in there. But wait Hold on meetings are salvation and salvation goes through the workers so we really have to think about keeping this pedophile in a meeting we might be determining his eternity. Hard to be in meetings with a millstone.
Thank you for the statistics which help us to get a clearer ‘picture’ of the magnitude of this crisis!
Statistics aren’t clear because they don’t tell what time Period they relate to. How many of these people are alive now?
Doesn’t matter, there victims are,and need our support and those abusers need to be held accountable dead or alive.
I heard around 23% of the workers accused of CSA/SA are no longer alive.
A quick question of clarification, do the Catholic Church numbers include both priests and members that have allegations of abuse? Just wanting to confirm that we are comparing apples to apples.
Good question, Brandon!
Also, how many alive now? How any years covered for Catholics? How many years covered for the 550?
600+ is the number as of one month ago. Aprox. 23% of workers accused are no longer alive. So approximately 77% of workers accused of CSA/SA are still alive.
The 600+ # (as of one month ago) includes all time (from any time period, all countries)–probably aren’t going to be any from before 1940s being reported now to Cynthia (most of those victims aren’t alive now.)
How many perpetrators are alive at this present time?
I’m not sure where people have gotten the info that there are at least 2 allegations for each person, but it’s inaccurate. Just hoping to clear that up, although I think I’m too far behind the grapevine. 😬
This is not AT ALL to take away from the work that these people have done in putting this together. It’s fantastic, and took a lot of time and diligence. Thank you to the authors!
Are you suggesting there are less than 2 victims/allegation? That would be quite atypical, particularly for pedophiles where the number of victims are far higher. Some pedophiles have 400 victims over a lifetime of not getting caught. Court cases average around 7 charges per offender.
Yes, there are many of these (I don’t know the percentage, and we’ll never know) who have abused one person. These are not all clinical pedophiles (in fact, my experience indicates that most of them aren’t). Most are crimes of opportunity, as far as I can tell. Unfortunately, there is a LOT of opportunity in this community. There is also a certain amount of SA committed against adults in the mix.
And even if they have abused multiple people/children, most of the abusers have not been *named* in allegations by more than one. That may be an unimportant distinction as to the severity of what’s going on, but it’s important in regards to publishing stats, simply because accuracy is absolutely paramount in ensuring that this movement is as effective as possible. If we lose credibility, we lose everything.
It is heartbreaking. And yet there are overseers who are in the heat of this because they condoned it covered it and they don’t have the integrity shame honesty or humility to step down. Remove them forcibly then. They have disrespected and dishonoured the place they were given.
Brian Bean: There is a list of everyone that has been reported to the hotline, but it is not public information. There are several reasons for this.
Some victims who have reported their abuse do not want the names of their abuser revealed, and if the victim is not a minor at the time of the report, it is not mandatory to report the abuse to law enforcement in many cases. There are several open cases, some of which you can see listed under “open cases” on AFTT website. However, if you did read through this summary, you would be informed about how long it can take victims to come forward about their abuse, how rarely convictions occur due to a lack of “proof”, and how traumatizing it is to relive the experience in court, often in front of the perpetrator, and have other people decide if the very real trauma you experienced, is to be believed enough to convict the accused. For these reasons among others, not every case is reported to law enforcement.
You do not need to see names on legal documents, because if that were the case, you would also be privy to victims names which is not your right. The primary concern in all of this is to protect survivors from any further trauma, while removing those who have been accused of sexual abuse crimes against children and/or adults, from having access to more potential victims. It should be enough for you to hear that there is one sexual predator in all of your organization, let alone 550+ predators, and more than 1000 victims, to personally take action within the group to prevent further abuse.
Lastly, not that a priority is in any way, to consider the well being of the perpetrators, but a public list of names can easily lead to some of those who are outraged about all of this, taking matters into their own hands. If vigilante justice is something you’re okay with, then a list of perps is a great idea. Overall, it does not make the allegations any more or less valid for YOU to have names and legal documents. The list of names is in professional hands and that is all the credibility needed. If you choose not to believe victims because you aren’t privy to some of the details and information, then you are part of why there is a crisis of epic proportions in your group
Please please please give some accurate facts? How many perpetrators are alive at this present day, September 18, 2023? Are there 550 we need to watch for? Are 329 of them deceased? Are 530 still alive?? Your numbers are not explained in a factual way.
Also, since you are comparing that number
with Catholic priests who are perpetrators, how many of these are workers and compared to how many Catholic priests who are perpetrators?
You are throwing around numbers which are not clearly defined.
I 100% agree with your logic and request, and have repeatedly asked for this data to be shared, through every channel I can think of.
We need to understand better where to apply our efforts. This is not to mean that a deceased perpetrator equates to no action required – there is still much-needed support for healing and restoration for the victims.
However, being realistic about what energy, time, and resources we collectively have, I believe we need to know how many people are alleged, yet not appropriately dealt with yet, as this feels like the most urgent order of business!
The perp number was 600+ as of one month ago and still rising. Approx. 40% are/were workers= 240 workers accused of CSA/SA. 90-95% CSA. 5-10% SA. Approx. 23% of workers accused are no longer alive=55 of these workers are deceased. 185 of these workers are still alive.
# is probably similar for the broader perp # including any members of the 2×2. 600 x 23%=Arrox. 138 of 600 deceased. 462 of 600 still alive.
Jan- well said!
A simple table numbered 1-550 with the following yes/no columns… Deceased ….. Attending Meetings …. In the work. Why not?
I wish the author of this piece would have been more cautious. We owe it to victims to be as effective as possible. If our communication objective is to win hearts and minds of people, we need to be careful not to insult, accuse, or blame them. Even honest people get defensive when accused.
The comparison with the Catholic church is unsupportable by data. We have no idea what the denominator is for 550+ perpetrators. in addition, stating we have a worse scandal than the Catholics is clearly inflammatory. If your audience was workers in denial, you already lost them in the first paragraph.
Please don’t throw around extrapolations, estimates, and projections. That is speculation and unpersuasive. At the very least include some kind of qualifier such as “there could possibly be as many as…”
I very much would like to see a dispassionate explanation of current statistics without any editorializing or prescriptions for remedies. All of us need to comprehend the true scope of the problem.
There is 600+ perpetrators now according the the people which are answering the calls from the hotline # and making and list (which is private and confidential). Reports are made to law enforcement if they are able to (if the victim wants that, if the statue of limitations hasn’t expires in that state/country etc.
N4apenny exactly! Also comparison number of workers to number of Catholic priests. It is in accurate the way it is stated because they are not including ALL perpetrators who are Catholics at any level, but they are including ALL people who go to meetings and are perpetrators.
These figures are VERY misleading and the statements made are not true
4thgenerationinmeeting, Thank you! So agree that the numbers presented do not lead to the conclusions made in this article. It twists the facts!
550 is the number of perps who are workers, elders or friends.
Compared with probably the number of priests who are perps. If they included all perps who are Catholics, the conclusions would be vastly different!
For the doubters, the Catholic Church had roughly 4400 priests and deacons accused of CSA issues from 1950-2002. There are currently around 1.4 billion Catholics. In our church, there are roughly 550 perpetrators. Even without a provided timeframe like the 1950-2002 above, it’s a staggering figure . Why? Because we only estimate around 100000-175000 within our church worldwide. A better thing to question would be, why is CSA continually covered up by our leaders and elders and why are we continuing to try to justify it and ignore there’s a huge problem? Why are the workers and elders in many areas continuing to say reading our fellow friends and families heartbreaking accounts of CSA on the internet something that is bad for our spirit and should be ignored? As if somehow ignoring the plight of our fellow sheep will not be something brought up on judgment day? Are we going to continue to allow our workers to preach that it’s better to be priests and Levites or will we stand up to the ministry and be good samaritans and protect the vulnerable in our midst? We need to be showing love and compassion to the wounded among us; not indifference. God gave us the gift of discernment so that we can make the right choices; perhaps it’s time to put away our pride and consider that the ministry invented 125 years ago by a flawed man isn’t working and throw the money changers out of our church before its too late.
Sadinca- well said!
“As of July 14th, 2023, there are credible allegations against 550 abusers”. The number, 550 abusers, is only the tip of the iceberg. The culture of this organization is to hide, or silence anyone, or anything that does not fit the mold. My wife and her mom were both sexually abused when they were preteen, or a teen. Neither have reported the crime, or outed the predator. Show only the good side, has been ingrained for the 127 year history of the groups founding. Along with hiding sexual abuse, members have hid and don’t talk about, alcohol abuse, pornography addiction, or simply having a television. A senior male worker in our area had a problem with alcohol and ran a vehicle into a ditch and asked me for assistance regarding a body shop to fix the damage. Later he was arrested in another alcohol related episode and spent significant time in jail. The culture of this organization is to hide what is not going to fit the mold. That is why the dress code and hair style look is so important. Similar to the Catholic priest to have the look of the outfit to hide the real person, or problem with the person. The 550 known sexual predators. That number would increase exponentially if there was not a culture where the outside of the cup matters more than the inside (“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.” -Matthew 23:25,26).
For Christ: what about Judas? Is the way Jesus taught wrong because Judas was chosen by Jesus as one of the first 12 apostles? 1/12 of the apostles chosen was a betrayer and untrue.
Do you believe what Jesus said about there being tares among the wheat?
Don’t think Judas was molesting kids and raping women that followed Jesus. But ok sounds like you’re working on your next sermonette for meeting. Maybe there’s a connection between how Judas ended up vs the Millstone.
I so agree with calls for clarity. Not because I don’t believe CSA/SA are evil or that they happen and should be prevented or dealt with. I just know for myself that reading statistics that lack a ton of clarity distracts from the real issue and makes the conversation suspect. Clarification should include: how many are CSA vs. SA (and how many of the different manifestations of CSA), how many are current or historical, how many friends or workers, the age of the accused at the time, how many have actually been dealt with, how many involve potentially criminal behavior vs. unwanted behavior (including hugs and the like). Common sense and the law tell us that these distinctions are valid if our goal is truly to prevent or deal with CSA/SA. If we can’t have that, then the numbers aren’t doing anyone any good, because we can all interpret according to our own biases and assumptions. Secondly, you lose me when you try to tell what people really mean by what they say. When someone says that a case was 20 years ago, they do not say they “don’t care about the trauma” or that they “think it is reasonable to put children at risk.” If someone might mean these things, they can be asked, and they can answer for themselves. I personally have a story (not f&w), and the fact that it was 45 years ago is relevant to my story. That doesn’t mean I don’t care about the victim (me!) and don’t care about other children (hardly!!). Many other details that are part of my story were relevant to how I raised my children in order to protect them. Details matter, but they must be accurate, not assumed.
The Scope of the CSA Problems in each of our lives is way understated. It has nothing to do with what religion we were brought up in. It has to do with the fact that we all go through childhood. Given the extremely broad definition of what constitutes CSA I would care to bet there isn’t anyone reading this that hasn’t been exposed to CSA when they came through childhood. usually it would be an older newborn kid of an older relative kid. This issue is very very different than forced CSA/SA, but greatly screws statistics.
Should have been neighbor kid.
CSA has nothing to do with religion, yet there are over 550 perpetrators in the truth religion brought to light in the last 6 months.😳. Hmmmmmm
I think it has a lot to do with certain religions, especially celibate ministries and power hungry, controlling hierarchies that have no regard for women or children, and think they have a monopoly on God.
I suspect the number of forced cases is way below 550. Sure glad that the ministry I love is way different than the one you describe.
600+ Perpetrators named. Around 5-10% SA. The rest 90-95% CSA. Approx. 40% workers. That’s around 240 workers being accused. Around 220 workers being accused of CSA.
Sadinca, Forchrist,
Of the 550 perps, how many were workers?
How many were elders?
How many are alive today in each category?
Would it change your mind one way or another? Assume a 100 of the workers and elders are dead; does that number enhance the argument? What about 200? Assume the split is 50/50 or 25/75. The workers picked themselves (or was it god that chose them) and the same men that chose themselves, then chose the elders. Then (insert whatever number is “reasonable” to you here) of them (both dead and alive) molested little kids and raped sister and brother workers. Then a bunch of them covered it up for years whilst at the same time discrediting the victims and often excommunicating them for being “bitter”. Hopefully someone comes out with the breakdown you need to make a decision.
‘How Many Workers?’ I’m genuinely curious to know why it matters so much to you that you receive a breakdown into status of the perpetrator?
Wow, M. Curious,
it might mean Who has most opportunities to get children alone!?
Workers, Elders
It is now 600+. Around 40% workers
It’s 600+ pers, 40% workers
60 million Catholics in the US in 2002
7000 clerics credibly accused of csa in US
.0116% abuse ratio
100 thousand 2x2s in the world 2002
550 perps (clergy and members)credibly accused (worldwide)
.55% abuse ratio
Abuse in the Truth has been 47 times more prevalent per capita than abuse by Catholic Clerics in the US.
Maybe a better comparison would be to determine out of the 550 credibly accused perps, how many of them were workers or elders (a position of influence that could be more comparable to that of a catholic cleric)
Say there’s been 30 “abusers in a position of influence relatable to that of a catholic cleric”
That’s still a 3 times higher abuse ratio than the Catholic Church
Jay, You made a major error in your calculations and I would request that you correct it. You assessed 7000 accusations amongst ALL Catholics when you only have the number of abusers that are PRIESTS. 🙂 Your calculations were assuming there were no abusers amongst the regular Catholics. Absolutely wrong and an obvious error. If you want to re-do your calculations, there is a study that identified 4,392 abusers out of 109,694 Catholic clergy which is 4% of all Priests from 1950-2002. https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/master/gdc/gdcebookspublic/20/19/66/72/66/2019667266/2019667266.pdf
Your answer is way off kilter and I would appreciate if you would remove or re-do your response ASAP.
This part is not quite correct “100 thousand 2x2s in the world 2002
550 perps (clergy and members)credibly accused (worldwide)
.55% abuse ratio” because the 550 (now over 600) is because a # of these cases/accusations are historic/in the past. Cray is way off in his response also.
In order to compare 2×2 ministers rate of CSA vs RCC rate, you must first compare only the MALE 2×2 ministers, and you must restrict the RCC numbers to only diocesan priests (not Religious Orders or brothers, because those men ran schools and orphanage).
Keep it apples to apples. The result is a 2×2 CSA rate that is at least 25 times the RCC rate.
Sadinca, Jay
You will manipulate those figures for the worst because you want to believe the worst about this way. So be it for you.
Nobody seems to be able to define the 550 number as to how many are workers etc., how many were active in 2002, how many are alive now.
Are these Catholics ones who checked a box on a form somewhere, or ones who attend church?
Look to Jesus,
What figures are manipulated? If anything, it’s likely a lot worse. I have 5 generations in this church and making any choose to leave would be the most difficult thing I have ever done. The bigger issue is people like you accepting the status quo and burying your head in the sand. If you believe in something you try to fix it if it’s broken. I’m assuming you don’t have kids of an age where this would concern you. This doesn’t have anything to do with a bad spirit or bitterness; this is something in our church that needs to be brought out into the light because it has ruined lives and is criminal. If you want to believe that this hasn’t been covered up by the generations before and it’s not that big of an issue, you are part of the problem.
Sadinca, Jay
You will manipulate those figures for the worst because you want to believe the worst about this way. So be it for you.
Nobody seems to be able to define the 550 number as to how many are workers etc., how many were active in 2002, how many are alive now.
Are these Catholics ones who checked a box on a form somewhere, or ones who attend church?
Bonjour
kindly read my posts in my wordpress blog and you will find out..
I have been reading Wings for months now without ever making a comment before now.
Based on public evidence on Wings and elsewhere, I can confidently say that Catholic Priests have been documented to commit CSA at a rate at least 2.5 times that of Brother Workers.
My statement contradicts the leading statement in this article above and I would like to explain my analysis. (I have completed this analysis entirely on my own with no help from investigators or Workers)
I would like to share the math and few facts focused around CSA amongst Brother Workers. To me this is the most threatening and terrible crime we need to focus on.
I hope you can follow this math. Feel free to challenge the assumptions.
1. By my count, there are 11 Brother Workers that have been accused of CSA in 2022 or 2023 according to Wings and other sources. The reference to 550 cases is total accusations of Saints and Servants and not relevant to this response.
2. There is currently an estimated 1000 active Brother Workers worldwide so this would be an accusation towards 1% of Brother Workers.
3. The John Jay Criminal Justice Institute study states that the Catholic church has estimated their sexual abuser rates at 4% among catholic priests from 1950-2002. https://www.loc.gov/item/2019667266/
4. As compared to Catholic Priests, Brother Workers have had far more access to children than Priests ever have had so unfortunately opportunities have abounded for potentially abusive situations.
5. In the longer-term view, of the last 75 years, 1948-2023 via public sources, I have found 44 documented alleged CSA cases worldwide amongst Brother Workers. (US, CAN, IRE, AUS, IND) (at least 8 of these are deceased) (I would estimate 200-500 victims based on the accusations documented and the relative short amount of time many of the accused spent in the Work (100% my estimate)
6. During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work so the total criminals would be 44/3000 or 1.5% abuse rate.
7. Catholic Priests have been documented to abuse at a rate of 4%. 4%/1.5% = 2.66. Therefore, Catholic Priests abuse at least 2.66x more frequently than Brother Workers (1.5%). Every abuse is horrific and terrible but I like to be able to assess the true scope of the situation in order to assess what the path forward might be.
So, the warnings and teaching/training of a vigilant flock is very necessary but throwing around exaggerations and poorly analyzed statistics degrades the conversation and reduces your credibility as a source of trustworthy information.
The abuse of the last 75 years occurred in an environment when many felt that we knew how to spot false prophets as wolves in sheep’s clothing. However, the devil is cleverer than we give him credit for, and the wolves had a field day.
Tragically overseers were also blinded to these wolves in sheep’s clothing (some were wolves themselves) which resulted in the ignoring and/or belittling/disbelieving many accusations of abuse with a general culture of disbelief in victims. I have faith that these errors of judgement have or will-be corrected very soon.
I personally have learned a lot regarding the victims’ difficulty with reporting/accusing and feel the church is stronger for going through these difficult times.
There are many that feel that the Church is broken but the fact that Jesus predicted these types of situations gives me faith Jesus is also the solution. Workers have never been perfect, and they never will be. There cannot be an attitude of infallibility as we all have fallen and come short, even when we thought we were taking steps in faith led by the Spirit.
Vigilant watchman are very necessary and the Elders, Parents, Workers, Overseers, Brothers, Sisters, Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts all play a role in keeping the flock safe. Thanks to all those who are working together for the good of the Kingdom.
Posts like this one and many others dealing with ‘the math’, make me want to conduct a poll on Wings:
Regarding Child Sexual Assault and Sexual Assault, we (the ‘Truth’) are:
a. Better than the Catholics
b. About the same as the Catholics
c. Worse than the Catholics
Regardless of the results, this exercise, like so many of the ‘math’ posts, would totally miss the point, that is, this religion has a big problem that has continued for decades. Research it. Study the dozens of cases that have gone through the court system. Don’t say it’s a few bad actors in the last couple years. It has flourished, IMO, because of:
Pedos seeing an opportunity to practice their deviant behavior in a sect that welcomes them into their homes, and trusts them with their kids. CSA is not because of a ‘celibate’ ministry, IMO. Again, scientific studies on pedophilia are available to all. Celibacy likely does contribute to consensual relationships between adults. Different story.
Laity that has been intimidated into secrecy (my salvation is in the hands of the workers, of course I won’t tell).
A ministry that has abused the unscriptural power granted them, and overseers that have vowed, at least tacitly, to cover for this ministry at all costs. To this day they deny, minimize, trivialize, and otherwise spin the sad truth. This from hundreds and hundreds of postings on several websites, and firsthand conversations with workers and ex-workers.
Only if professing people have the courage to band together, stand up for the truth (small t), and demand real change will anything good come of this scourge. Otherwise it’s ‘in the past’, ‘nothing to see here’; let’s move on.
The change you are hoping for has already happened in many parts of the world. In other parts it’s happening now or about to happen. Perhaps in your part of the world things are moving slowly but I’ve seen great progress and change in the US and Europe. 👍
600+ perpetrators named within the 2×2 religion. Approximately 40% workers=240 workers (not 11). 90-95% CSA. 5-10% SA. So around 220 workers have been accused of CSA. As far as I know (some are deceased) this is for any country and any time period.
It’s much higher. Your math is way off. Elders are to be included with workers as they are considered part of the leadership of the church and especially those that give out communion (like a deacon or bishop in other churches). From Back-up Elders to Super Elders (control $100K – $1M+ bank accounts/trusts) they all must be included in the % of clergy or church leadership/authority (mandatory reporters) who rape and molest. But now you’re defending just another organized religion by getting down in the deepest darkest pits of pure evilness of raping and molesting children comparing your Perfect Way and Truth apples for apples with every other ‘worldly church’. The same ones you’ve ALL spent your entire life looking down on and putting down in your testimonies. Guess what! The churches down on the corner have higher standards and even have counseling and care and Christ like empathy and love for the molested children and the raped women.
Mystie, where are you seeing that 40% of the 550 perps are Workers?
If you are looking for a total number of folks in the last 75 years that have spent 5 years+ within the faith, I’m sure you are looking at a total of 500,000 or more so around .1% perps. I counted up 491 conventions in 2022-2023 if you need additional stats. 20-400 per convention if you don’t double count people that go to multiple conventions?
451 conventions in 2022/2023 I miss-typed.
The 40% number being CSA amongst workers is shocking. I would need to see the data to believe it though as this would be a 5-7% rate of abuse. As I’ve seen nearly a dozen workers removed during the past months, that would be a very small portion of the abusers. I have to believe that these accusations must be either relating to deceased individuals or be otherwise doubtful accusations to not be resulting in removals or calls for removals of “perps” . I don’t think the Advocates are hiding serious accusations against active workers are they??
Using your number here: During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work. 600+ named perps so far within the 2×2. 40% workers=240 workers accused of SA/CSA. 5-10% SA, 90-95% CSA. Arrox 220 workers accused of CSA-estimated 2 (women workers)=218 brother workers being accused of CSA. That is 7%.
Mystie, Where are you getting the 40% statistic from?? I’ve never seen that published anywhere. Please provide a link. Thanks!
Mystie, where are you seeing that 40% of the 550 peeps are Workers?
600+ perpetrators (not 550) named within the 2×2 religion. Approximately 40% workers=240 workers (not 11). 90-95% CSA. 5-10% SA. So around 220 workers have been accused of CSA.
Cray, thanks for your more thorough analysis of this situation! Totally different and more accurate outcome
Catholic Priests used to run/may still run orphanages so they had plenty of access to children.
Your statistics/response is not correct because you do not have correct numbers, do not have correct information regarding how much access Catholic priests had to children, . . .
Mystie
Priests do not stay in homes of families, therefore do not have as much access to
Children as workers.
Numbers are correct
Your numbers are way off. They are not correct.
Using your number here: During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work. 600+ named perps so far within the 2×2. 40% workers=240 workers accused of SA/CSA. 5-10% SA, 90-95% CSA. Arrox 220 workers accused of CSA-estimated 2 (women workers)=218 brother workers being accused of CSA. That is 7%.
1. The 600+ cases reported to the PI are relevant. You stated “1. . . .The reference to 550 cases is total accusations of Saints and Servants and not relevant to this response.”
2. This 1000 # is irrelevant. The 600+ includes historic cases, so the 1000 active brother workers doesn’t matter. You have to you the 3,000 total brothers workers estimate you came up with. Using your number here: During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work. 600+ named perps so far within the 2×2. 40% workers=240 workers accused of SA/CSA. 5-10% SA, 90-95% CSA. Arrox 220 workers accused of CSA-estimated 2 (women workers)=218 brother workers being accused of CSA. That is 7%.
4. This is not correct-Catholic priests ran orphanages so had plenty of access to children where they lived with no parents around. You stated “As compared to Catholic Priests, Brother Workers have had far more access to children than Priests ever have had so unfortunately opportunities have abounded for potentially abusive situations.”
5. Again you are incorrect. 600+ perps named, 240 workers accused = thousands of victims in the 2×2 (not 200-500 victims as you estimated)
6. Incorrect – Using your number here: During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work. 600+ named perps so far within the 2×2. 40% workers=240 workers accused of SA/CSA. 5-10% SA, 90-95% CSA. Arrox 220 workers accused of CSA-estimated 2 (women workers)=218 brother workers being accused of CSA. That is 7%. (not 1.5% that you came up with)
True Catholic priests you only see on Sunday. Workers LIVE IN OUR HOMES 365.
Wonder if anyone else has noticed that the senior workers have clearly gone down their rabbit hole again.. After the earth quake of DB that seemed to shake some of them into the open, there were quite a few public statements shared and a certain feeling of openness about the issues.
However there have been very few significant open statements by senior workers now the last month or two. Seems the powerful leadership has sort of vanished again into the murky darkness that they seem to thrive best in. If anyone counted on a tranparency — or openess …. Forget it!! Its not going to happen.
I have had the privilege of talking with many of them lately and they seem as open, giving and helpful as ever.
Exactly, @Edgar Massey. As the last line of my post above stated…. “Otherwise, it’s in the past, nothing to see here, let’s move on.” They’re clearly hoping this little ‘annoyance’ will pass if they just keep quiet.
We had a saying in my business: ‘If you don’t change your direction, you’ll wind up where you’re headed’. I’m afraid that applies here.
I certainly noticed that Canadian Leaders were called to mtgs in the US, so they all operate on a par. I have also noticed the silence of the Canadian Workers……. Not much to say !!……. When in my home were not open minded in wanting to know where this “Way” started or anything to say about numbers. In other words were ignorant of the facts and scoffed at using a computer to learn facts !!!! Yet they all run around with computers.
Also I would like to point out to Cray that it was the Catholic Priests who ran the Catholic Schools !!!!!…….KIDS ?????? Lots of them….
Exactly, Catholic school & Catholic orphanages where the priest lived at the same property with the children!
The Wings for truth was not established because of 1 or 2 cases of CSA/SA. It was established to give victims a voice. In 2014 we met with Rob Newman and Dale Shultz because of what we discovered about CSA/SA amongst the ministry and felloship. We asked for a moral statement- couldn’t make one because of enemies. Requested they comply to state guide lines on reporting- the overseers did not want to set a precedence- statue of limitations at that time allowed them to avoid resonsibilty on many cases. Met with Rob Newman and Walter Pollock spring of 2015- gave them our discovery- commented do not know why these men are allowed to stay in ministry. That summer Rob reposted back nothing would be done. And the story goes on and on. AFTT- Cynthia, Sheri and Lauren are there to help everyone.
Understand why those in the ministry are loosing sleep- All will be revealed in time. We continue to pray for those who love our heavenly Father and his son Christ. May those of an honest ministry speak up.
The incidence of children being raped and molested in the truth is staggering. Why is the truth a beacon for child sexual offenders???
Child sexual abuse and years of cover-up are symptoms of far greater problems. Some of which include:
Majoring in the minors/Legalism
Valuing the appearance of unity over the individual
Equating “the truth” to serving Jesus
Living witness doctrine- viewing Workers as Godlike
The “Work” attracting and retaining a high incidence of narcissistic, atypical, and immoral individuals.
Foundation of deception (denying that William Irvine started the truth)
Not understanding the Bible historically and culturally has led to the prevalence and acceptance of subjection and oppression of women
Misinterpretation of the Bible- Peter and Judas were married. Workers will never meet the criteria of apostles (google what qualifies as an apostle). Apostles/disciples retained that homes and did not sell all but just temporarily left.
Lastly, the truth is a high-control group that prevents critical thinking or going against the group. (Google the B.I.T.E. model)
Did I leave any out?
Hi “CSA is a Symptom”, as I explained above, 46 cases amongst 3000 brother workers in the last 75 years is 1.5%. 550 cases among 300,000-500,000 professors having spent 5+ years in the Truth during the last 75 years is .1-.2%. Not good but not shocking when you compare to 4% occurrance amongst Catholic priests and the stats that 10-17% of girls experience sexual abuse. https://www.d2l.org/child-sexual-abuse/prevalence/#:~:text=A%20range%20of%20child%20sexual,of%207.5%25%20–%2011.7%25*. Another fact to consider is that the state of Oregon has over 700 abusers a per 100,000. Overall, if you are raised in the truth, I still believe you are far less likely to be affected by sexual abuse than if you are raised outside the truth.
@Cray, I’m glad you weren’t my high school math teacher! I never would’ve passed algebra! If we assume the 550 is correct (not proven I realize), and 95% of the cases were CSA, and 40% of the perps were workers….well, you do the math (or maybe not).
But at least your last statement is comforting; that if you are in ‘God’s one true way on earth’, your chances of being sexually assaulted by one of ‘God’s true ministers on earth’, or an Elder, is less than if you are an ‘outsider’ (or, I suppose, live in Oregon). What a testament.
“During that time from 1948-2023 there have likely been over 3000 Brother Workers spending time in the work” (using Cray’s estimate). 600+ named perps so far within the 2×2 (as of one month ago). Using the # 600 perps 40% workers=240 workers accused of SA/CSA. 5-10% SA, 90-95% CSA. Arrox 220 workers accused of CSA (as of one month ago)-estimated 2 (women workers)=218 brother workers being accused of CSA. That is 7%. (not 1.5% that Cray came up with).
What Percentage of Catholic Priests Have Been Accused?
from Pintas & Mullins Law Firm http://www.pintas.com
“Clergy Abuse Lawyer . . .About 4% of Catholic priests from 1950-2002 were accused of sexual abuse. The number of clergy abuse cases is falling due to higher reporting and law”
“Did I leave any out?” Nope, you’ve pretty well covered it.
But to me, maybe most disturbing thing about CSA is this: Studies of pedo males show the earliest indications of pedo feelings is early teens. The age at which pedos reported exclusive attraction to children was 17-18. So if a professing pedo male ‘offers’ for the work, what might be the motivations?
a. An altruistic desire to spread the gospel?
b. A desire to suppress their pedo tendencies in a an occupation that
expects them to be celibate? Or,
c. A desire to practice their pedo behavior in a secretive sect where
they will stay in private homes with parents that trust them with
their children? And won’t ‘tell’ for fear of being ‘cast out’?
I’m sure there are some in each category, but to me, ‘c.’ is the most sinister and evil. And people that cover up this criminal behavior, be they parents, friends, or workers, (especially overseers) run a close second.
I keep seeing the statistic that 40% of the 550 perps are workers and 95% of the perps are CSA. Where does this stat come from? Advocates? Please provide a link.
@Cray, read the ‘Heart of Compassion’ newsletter, written by friends.
Cray, the private investigator Cynthia has talked about the list on Zoom calls. Approximately 40% workers. 90-95% CSA. There are well over 600 perpetrator names by now and she says it will keep going up for a long time. She also said that she has never seen anything like it before. If an experienced P.I. specialising in CSA says something like that, there is good reason to pay attention. She has investigated other groups like the Catholic church, Boy Scouts and Mormons. On another Zoom call which included AFTT we heard that the Baptist church with 13 million members has a list of over 400 and they got alot of flack for it. AFTT is planning to publish the list at some point but that will require lawyers and insurance in addition to the investigations. She did say she will not put a name out there unless she is sure about it. I don’t know if the 600 are the confirmed names but she did say false allegations are rare. The reality is, the number of pedophiles among brother workers is staggering. I don’t know about the ratio of pedophiles among the friends relative to the general population, however I think the church is good at producing and attracting both prey and predators in high numbers.
Also, I don’t understand why so many people suddenly use the “CSA is everywhere” excuse. This church claims to be different, the one and only true way, and for that reason it was fine to let people you don’t know well into your home and near your children. People only started realising this is not the case in recent times, and interestingly it was not the people they trusted most who made them aware that there are predators in the work, despite the fact that those people they trusted had known it for decades. So the CSA numbers by workers are shockingly high. In addition to that, the criminals are being protected by those who should apparently have the highest moral standards. These cover-ups created more victims. It’s a horrific situation that cannot be justified.
The investigator also said they looked at a worker’s photo and 14% of the brother workers on the photo had allegations. Obviously that is not a statistically significant sample but the mere fact that she would mention something like that might indicate she thinks it is not impossible that the true percentage among brother workers (if we knew every perpetrator) could be in the region of 15%. Either way, even the current numbers are shockingly high.
I want to clarify for everyone, because I keep seeing this claim: Cynthia will not release the entire list of 600 alleged perpetrators. It’s never going to happen. If it did, it would be an EGREGIOUS breach of survivor privacy, and likely put her at huge legal risk due to endangering survivors. I don’t know why this hasn’t been cleared up publicly, but it should be.
I have done the same thing with worker photos. My results are usually 15-20% *of the male workers*. One photo I just looked over was at 25%. Outrageous. When adding the female workers into the mix, the percentage decreases drastically, so I would definitely not say 15% for all workers, but I don’t know the same things that other people know, so I could be wrong. We can be confident that the percentage is higher than it seems, though, due to sex crimes being notoriously under-reported (for several reasons – and I’m not blaming any survivors who decide that reporting is not the right path for them at this time).
Granted, these are older photos (this particular photo was from the early 90s), and very current photos will have much lower numbers due to this year’s events.
Cray, based on your last post it looks like you may have missed the recent comment under the name Elle? It talks about the Zoom calls with the private investigator and what she said about the numbers and other important facts. My perpetrator has never been mentioned on Wings nor removed from meetings, and I know of others too. Very limited exposure in certain areas and countries, and language is a barrier. The P.I. is doing a proper investigation and it is not going to stop soon.
I’m curious. Would you name your perpetrator? If not, why not?
Cray, you actually have no right to ask a victim on a public page to name their sexual abuser.
Cray, about your question if I would name him. I have not even told my family. I have reported it to the investigator because I felt a responsibility as well as an opportunity to be believed by someone who will not be fooled by his spiritual talk and a soft voice. He appears vulnerable and emotional but that is just his public mask. I don’t think many people will believe me if I make a public declaration and I would obviously have to explain my story, and I just cannot handle the thought of that. I hope that his name will get published by the investigator when the list goes public. It took me two months to get the courage to report him. I know it may not be easy to understand why but I have never been the same since and I have many triggers.
I see. I look forward to the establishment of a reliable and scriptural solution where you can confidentially share your concerns and know the perpetrator will be dealt with appropriately by authorities both legally and ethically without the need for third parties outside the faith. Many are working towards this and I am confident this will happen soon. Wish I could help sooner.
This may be regarded as blasphemy against 2x2ism by the “True and faithful” Why?
A major feeling being expressed on support sites is horror and shame for the enormous moral failings by 2×2 leadership that have come to light since the DB issue broke. Not just isolated cases … but a large scale systematic disregard for basic principle that has gone on for up to 100 years by most leadership figures. Extreme disregard and cruelty toward the downtroden and assailed, and now so well documented life destruction for hundreds upon hundreds of victims.
For folks genuinely interested in in truth and decent Christian principle– however your religious fanticy would twist it, continued participation must be regarded as complete capitualation to the forces of evil in your world!. Thats how I and many others look at it.
Why is the only realistic alternative so hard to face?
We also found it hard to face 22 years ago — but it has become the greatest blessing in our lives!
It feels not quite right to be arguing about statistics when so many have suffered the reality of abuse.
Nevertheless, it is important that we all (overseers, workers, elders, deacons, friends, etc.) understand the reality of the situation. Apologists want to deny or minimize the problem. Critics want to dramatize it. Accurate statistics could be helpful for all of us to better comprehend the true scope of the problem.
Apparently the highest overseers with authority to initiate corrective actions are either 1)in denial, 2)are minimizers, 3)are willfully ignorant, 4) are incompetent, or 5)are knowingly complicit. I continue to hope that it is not 4 or 5. 1,2,and 3 potentially can be impacted by persuasion.
It becomes easier for apologists for the status quo to hang onto their treasured beliefs when the critics can be so easily discredited and dismissed. We do not do any favors to the abused when we use incredible, flawed statistics or exaggerate and dramatize.
If our intention is to stop further abuse and advocate for victims, then it behooves us to be as effective as we can be. It is not enough to be right. We must be effectual as well.
Who in your experience to you find to be the most influential and persuasive? Is it not someone who is calm, reasoned, thoughtful, informed, and careful?
Assuming that the decision makers are honest, they need to hear voices that are credible. I am afraid that those voices are being drowned out in the cacophony of careless internet postings against the workers.
Credible? Just go contact Cynthia Liles direct. Honest? Ask any brother worker over 50 straight up face to face how long have you known? Why didn’t you do anything for the last 20-30 years? Then like any other job like school district ask them to resign. Calm voice like Dale Schultz? Ask him why he’s hiding?
Dear Pedos in Shepherds Clothing,
I hear your righteous anger. If you believe that the workers are bad, you have every right to just walk away and not look back. No one is stopping you.
Most in our fellowship are not willing to “burn the house down”. Somehow, in spite of the corruption and evil perpetrators, most of us in our fellowship have experienced incredible moments when God spoke to us and we connected with each other in a deeply spiritual way. We don’t want to give up that grounding of our souls that gives our entire lives a meaning. We want those moments to grow more frequent and richer for the remainder of our lives.
We are a flock of flawed people. Workers and friends. Not all of us are born again. Not all of us are honest. We have many good people with their eyes closed. We need to be gentle with them because they are in for a real gut-wrenching ride once they start to see the facts. Who will be left?
The sifting and pruning taking place is painful. We are losing fellowship with good friends. Good people are being hurt even as the bad are being exposed. It will take charity to heal the wounds.
So who and what will be left as we emerge from this crisis? There are many of us who care and want to be a part of it. We think it will be better. More alive. More spiritual. More real.
With that in mind, how do we communicate to the powers that be? They already understand the threat to themselves. They are looking out for enemies. They know all about warfare and the battle between Good and Evil. Most of them signed up to be on the Good side and still believe that is what they are doing. Many have consigned Cynthia Lyles to “the dark side”. They are not inclined to believe her or the AFTT ever since AFTT called for all the overseers to step down.
When you challenge them and stick your finger on their chest and demand they step down, you just put yourself solidly in the enemy camp (in their eyes). Why then should they listen to anything you say? You are on the dark side. (again, in their eyes). You are dangerous to them and to the flock. You are not credible.
The overseers that are evil and cynical, we never could persuade anyway. Removing them will require an outside force, probably the legal system. If overseers are decent and good hearted (but misinformed and indoctrinated), then they should be susceptible to reason and facts from a credible source. Especially if that source is respected and demonstrates the fruit of the spirit. It is my hope that many overseers are in this category and we can develop credible voices of influence.
My plea is that on Wings we limit ourself to legitimate and verifiable allegations. Speak the truth, not opinion. Avoid hearsay, gossip, and dramatics. Don’t throw around wild estimates and bogus statistics.
Somehow God’s will is being accomplished in all this. Let us be certain we are on His side.
The Overseers have ‘dirt’ on many people (other workers, some elders, etc) – this is how they control so many people without having to say much. You cannot get changes from the Overseers when they have such a lock solid control on the entire power structure and the finances. The only remote hope for change is if some brave soul close to the Overseers is willing to cooperate with the FBI about the money laundering. Are you that person?
Yes, please stand up and be counted as men of God.
Talking about a very isolated sexual abuse situation SHOULD be a huge deal!!! As Elle puts it, “This church claims to be different, the one and only true way, and for that reason it was fine to let people you don’t know well into your home and near your children.” That is what makes this sex scandal huge. Sexual abuse, child sexual abuse, and spiritual abuse is now common place and people debate the percentages as, that’s not so bad. We’re not talking about “worldly” people– this is suppose to be God’s “people”. That makes no sense if you’re a thinking person who has a brain.
Percentages- well said!