Scott Porter’s letter:
Dear all,
Most of you probably don’t know that in 2021 I was made aware of and involved in a child sexual abuse case. There are some who are calling for me to step down from the work because of my involvement in it. For the sake of transparency, honesty, and vulnerability I will share with you what happened according to the notes I took at that time and from the best of my ability to remember. I would like to do what is best for all involved, and if for any reason it seems I should actually step down, I am willing to do so.
My coworker and I were staying in a jungle/countryside community. These are very small communities where most people are, in some way, related to each other. They are isolated, everyone is connected to each other, there are no secrets amongst them, there are no local police, etc. These places need to be experienced to be understood. Life is raw in these places.
I got up early one morning in a certain home, in a certain one of these countryside places and was heading to the kitchen to get some coffee and met the lady of the home on the way. She was very distraught and told me in one big rush that she had discovered through one of her daughters that some of her granddaughters had been “disrespected by her husband.” She didn’t tell me names but told me that first, many years ago, some of her daughters had been abused by him, and she had just found out that some of her granddaughters had suffered the same. Some were still underage, but from what she could understand, the abuse had taken place 8 or more years in the past (I don’t share this as an excuse, it’s just a part of the story).
I can’t remember if I got my coffee or not, but I immediately spoke to my coworker and we decided that we needed to travel right away with our friend to the city where her daughters and their families live, a 3-4 hour multi-bus commute. Thus began my involvement and attempts to guide what happened.
I was the spokesperson, but I did not make any decision alone. Rather, I tried to guide and support the adult victims in this group process. I never had any contact with the victims who were still minors, but they were in communication with their mothers. It would be impossible to convey in words the emotions, tears, distress, and spirit of our time together. It remains one of the most impactful events of my life. We met for lunch with the mothers, some whom were themselves victims and, in this visit, I discovered that their husbands didn’t know anything about any of it. I strongly encouraged everyone that the next step would be to visit all together with their husbands and tell them what had happened and what was happening. They were very nervous about doing this but decided to do so.
So that evening at dinner we visited with them. I was so impressed with the courage of these victims and also by their husbands’ response, support, and help. During these visits I felt it would be good to have a sister worker join us and they chose a sister worker that they knew well and trusted who then traveled all night to join us. Together, we decided that the next step would be to all travel together and confront the abuser.
I had asked them if we needed to alert the authorities and they repeatedly said no, and asked us not to. (A side note: The people of this country do not trust the authorities of the country. All are easily bribed. Even judges are known to wait to see who will give the largest bribe before making their decision. Again, I don’t say this as an excuse, it is simply a fact of life in this particular country).
We spent a total of four nights in the city and on the fifth day we traveled back into the countryside where we confronted the abuser. There were tears and emotions indescribable, group visits and individual visits, and a lot of prayer and thinking. I never once asked the victims to forgive him. That was not the purpose. I will never ask them to forgive, and if they come to the place of doing so, that is their personal journey.
The abuser was calm and quiet, and appeared humble, yet I never felt he truly repented. It was during this time that I agonizingly tried to figure out how to guide us as a group. They did not want to get any authorities involved and so I seriously considered asking the abuser to leave his community. I think he would have. Just go, leave, and don’t come back. Then it dawned on me that he would go to a different city where more of his family live although he hadn’t been there for many years. He has a large handful of great nieces living there who are just at the age that all of these women and girls were at the time of their abuse. I quickly abandoned that thought and although I had mentioned it to my coworker, I didn’t mention it to anyone else.
Our number one goal in all of this was the present safety of those directly involved. I had no experience that allowed me to even consider the affect that our decision could and would have on other uninvolved victims. This abuser was the elder and we made it clear that he could no longer be the elder.
Most of those in the meeting had no means of transportation to travel to a meeting at a different location, so we asked another man who lives a good distance away (but does have a vehicle) to come to this man’s house and lead the meeting. In this community there was no other place for the meeting. I seriously considered asking this man to no longer attend the meeting. However, from a safety standpoint and considering the unique elements of this particular situation I didn’t feel like this would actually make anything safer. He was not in meeting with any of his victims. However, there were other children, in differing degrees related to him, who did attend the meeting. Their parents were very aware of the situation. I felt that there was far more interaction and potential opportunities for harm outside the meeting than in the meeting itself.
Due to the nature of how these communities work, everyone knew that he had abused, everyone was on alert, and I didn’t believe that taking him out of the meeting would cause the situation to be less dangerous. We spoke incredibly directly and strongly to the abuser both as a group and in individual visits. We told him that we would never trust him again and that he should be in jail, and that we absolutely condemned what he did.
He did still partake in testimony and emblems, which I was uncomfortable with. It seemed like the general consensus was to not remove him from involvement in the meetings, and as I didn’t see how it would affect the safety of the situation, I didn’t insist on that outcome.
Since that time, I have learned that many victims feel revictimized upon hearing that perpetrators have not been removed altogether from the meetings. I finally understand that reaction, and for that reason I am very sorry to not have removed him completely. I sincerely wish I would have tried to lead the group to make that decision.
After four nights we all returned to the city and remained there for another four days. Then, my coworker and I returned to the countryside and visited with all the friends in this community and a nearby one, reiterating to those who knew, and telling those who didn’t, that this man was a predator. We did not reveal the names of any victims.
Throughout this whole experience, the presence, comfort, advice, and help of the sister worker involved was immense. I would never want to go through such a situation without a sister worker(s) involved.
I have maintained a good relationship with the victims and their families to this day. I continue to support them. At the time, I offered to help find professional counseling and I let them know that somehow, we would arrange the finances for it. I’ve recently (entirely unrelated to this) found some good resources and would like to re-suggest and reoffer professional help. They also know I would support them if they ever wanted to press charges.
Sometime later, a person who was not originally involved in the situation became involved. That is another long and ongoing story, in and of itself. Due to their involvement, the abuser was excluded from all fellowship. I am glad, for that needed to happen, and like I said, I am sorry for any hurt and further harm that has come from leaving him in fellowship. I do not doubt this persons’ motives in becoming involved, unfortunately in an eagerness to help, this person widely shared the victims’ names and I am also very sorry for that.
I don’t know what more to say. I’m willing to step down if it would help reestablish trust and be an action of apology to all victims worldwide. I value my place in the ministry, but it cannot come at the cost of suffering, abused and silenced people within or without our fellowship. I am sorry for the mistakes I have made. I would also encourage all workers worldwide to share their stories honestly and vulnerably, and be willing for anything that would help us all heal and mend. For that is the purpose of it all.
Sincerely,
Scott Porter
Richard Harbur’s communication in regards to Ecuador:
To those who have read Charlie and Judy Habner’s letters about CSA in Ecuador…
Charlie made it clear that he had asked Lealand 8 years ago to have Leroy Lerwick removed because Leroy was preaching false doctrine. The doctrine that Charlie is referring to is divorce and remarriage. Ecuador is the only country in South America that allows people that have been divorced and remarried to have full fellowship.
Because of this, Charlie and Judy have been against the ministry in Ecuador long before they knew of this specific case of CSA. I would hope that everyone would understand that Ecuador is a different country than the USA with different laws. Charlie makes a big deal that Leroy and Max didn’t take the case to the authorities 20 years ago when they came to know of what had happened 10 years before.
Ecuador didn’t have laws concerning CSA until 2018. Just to give you an idea of the government there – in 2021 the government put it up for a popular vote as to whether there would be any penalties (fines or prison time) for CSA and abuse against women. Fortunately there are penalties. But as you can see there was no one for Leroy and Max to take the matter to authorities to deal with it. The laws of a country don’t decide what is right and wrong in the eyes of God, but they do limit one’s options.
Obviously we are much more aware today than in that day, that people like (T) are likely to continue offending. Also there are differences in the laws – in Ecuador if an allegation is brought to the authorities the first thing they do is go to the victims and the first question is: We have an allegation that you were abused, do you want us to investigate? If the answer is no, that is the end of the case as far as the government is concerned. That includes a minor victim.
So as Scott wrote in his account the victims and their families didn’t want anyone to take it to the authorities from the beginning when we first found out about it.
When Judy found out about it, she kept pushing until one of the workers did go to the authorities. The authorities then went to the victims and their families. Of course victims continued to say no, so the case is closed as far as the authorities are concerned.
Some might be wondering why (B) wrote a letter about the abuse so that Judy could read it to the church.. (B) says, “That Judy manipulated me.” She realized as soon as Judy left with the letter that it was a mistake and communicated with Judy, pleading that she wouldn’t read the letter, but that she would destroy it. Judy tried to convince her that it had to be done and don’t be afraid, but B insisted that the letter be destroyed and not read. So Judy agreed that she wouldn’t read the letter. That communication was by Whatsapp and there is a copy. (Several lawyers have said that the family could sue Judy for reading that letter and sharing it publicly. They say the only place that letter should have ever been read is by the authorities. The family has no desire to sue, they just want to be left in peace).
So one can understand why the family feels betrayed when Judy went ahead and read the letter and has continued to share it. It was at that time that the victims were exposed to the church. Although Judy told us Saturday that she had the workers’ approval to disband the meeting entirely, we had been given no indication from anyone that she actually had that approval. The same Saturday Scott had pleaded with her to wait a couple of days until we could get to the area to work together concerning the situation. The next day Judy read the letter in the Sunday morning meeting and exposed the victims (who were not in attendance) to those who already knew (T) was a perpetrator.
Scott and I arrived a couple of days later and the following Saturday Judy demanded that we tell the 2 churches in the area that she had acted with the authority of the workers. We didn’t feel that we could say that she was acting on our behalf. So after the Sunday morning meetings we met with her and another couple involved and I stated our reasons why we could not in good conscience tell everyone that the way she read the letter and disbanded the meeting had any part of our approval. As I was talking she continually tried to interrupt me and I raised my voice. I never screamed at her. She immediately stood up and confronted me, saying I couldn’t “raise my voice” at her, I apologized and she accepted it. The visit continued for some time.
The next day she told the couple that she was going to put a restraining order against me. Which she did that day. At the first hearing I was as surprised as Judy to see several of the friends there. My lawyer wanted (J) and (D) there as witnesses because it took place at their house and they were part of the conversation. They were the only ones that I expected. Afterwards I found out that several were quite concerned about what the judge might do with me, a foreigner, because of the corruption there. Interestingly enough, it was supposed to be an open hearing but he wouldn’t let them come in and he didn’t want to hear from the couple that were witnesses to the conversation.
At the second hearing my lawyer said that (J) and (D) should be there and also a character witness. I made sure that no one else came. I went into the hearing not knowing if Judy was going to drop the restraining order or not…. Because she was emailing me (of course I could not reply because of the restraining order). The last email I had she demanded that unless I tell (L) to stop lying about what happened in the first hearing to (E) she wouldn’t drop the restraining order. I had no idea what it was about, but called (E) and he said I haven’t talked to (L) since before the first hearing. (L) told me the same. So I didn’t know what Judy had in mind??? She did drop the restraining order at that hearing.
It was during that time that the elder (JP) asked her not to come to his meeting in Guayaquil. My lawyer made it clear to me that if I was involved in any such thing I could go to jail, so I had nothing to do with it. It also had nothing to do with (T). But it was because the victims and their families felt betrayed, used, abused, hurt and afraid of Judy that he felt it was necessary to give them space from her, as several meet in his home. They still feel that way and don’t want anything to do with her and Charlie. Judy got so upset with (JP) that she started looking for any skeletons in his extended family and going after them. So (JP)’s father who is the elder of the other meeting in Guayaquil said she wasn’t welcome there either.
It wasn’t until what has happened here in the USA this spring and summer that I became aware of how offensive it is to some victims that the perpetrators would be in meetings. The victims and their families very much want (T) to repent and be saved, so they weren’t opposed to him being in meetings 3 hours away from them. But I see now that we should have handled that differently because of other victims.
There is almost no phone signal where he lives so on-line listening isn’t an option for (T). From the beginning our concern has been for the victims and how to support them as Scott mentioned in his account. It was never about trying to cover up for (T).
It has become clear that Judy wasn’t listening, but projecting her feelings and desires on the victims and their families. It has caused lots of harm, suffering and hurt to the victims and their families. Like we have been hearing a lot the last while, each victim is unique and their journey to healing and being whole is unique. I need to listen.
Richard Harbur
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Thanks Scott Porter and Richard Harbur for explaining your side of the story.
Thanks Scott for your humility that comes through strongly.Now we understand the internal situation and culture in Ecuador better and realize how this effected your decisions you made and also limited you to what you could do. You did the best you could do it seems under the circumstances, thank you.
I am dissapointed that Judy went on reading that letter, from what you said she clearly had no business in doing so, if I was the victims I would also be very upset with her.
Wrong …..the abuser’s wife WROTE a letter that expose the evil deeds of her husband.
She wanted her letter to be read in the meeting to warn everyone because the people in the meeting DIDN’T know what happen.
That’s not what this letter says. Are you privy to the WhatsApp thread that indicates the opposite of what you are stating?
I have actually seen screenshots from the wife to Judy in which she begged Judy multiple times to not read the letter that they had written together.
Scott,
I just read the first portion of your letter!
Your first response was what I have been looking for in all of the workers letters that we have received. Thank you for telling us right at the start you would be willing to step down, that is the response of a person THAT recognizes something has gone wrong and that something different might have been done, for that reason alone I believe you. In my opinion you should remain in your place.
I have finished the letter now…….and true to all that I have learned, THE ABUSERS are not repentant…….they have no desire to stop their abuse.
And yes, you should have removed the abuser from meeting, in this situation you made an error, something we all have made our FIRST TIME dealing with this awful business.
Thank you
He didn´t do anything wrong, my friend. He actually supported and took care of the victims who are my closest friends. He did his best and all the victims here are grateful for what Scott, Richard and the workers kindly did here. We Ecuadorians are grateful and thankful to our workers.
At the end of the day, the workers respected the victims´ desires. They, the victims could have gone to the authorities, but they decided not to do so. It was a different kind of help they asked and received.
Concerning Scott and Richard”s Letter: Upfront, our daughter still has a mocking and degrading letter sent to her by the ‘Richard’. So, it is not hard to doubt his gut reaction to the ‘Judy’. AND why did he need or want a ‘Lawyer” to remove the “Restraining Order”. They both were free from each other! WOW! THAT should have pleased him, enormously!
Subject here is an heinous crime perpetrated by a monster for decades. His wife, knowing this, was unable to protect herself or their children – namely, their daughters; from this monster. Nor were the daughters able to protect their Daughters from this monster. AND THEY DO NOT WANT anyone to know about it??!! Sounds like the next “batch” or generation of Daughters will be subject to the same. While their grandmother becomes even more distraught as she again follows the “spiritual advise” of those who are unable to know to learn basic human dignity.
Can you imagine, even in that down-under-country, where they do not take this crime of criminal, heinous, brutal evil; seriously; that a U.S. Citizen, as an top overseer’ in God’s ministery in the ONLY ONE TRUE WAY of minsters of God the Father in a foreign land: does NOT know what basic human love and dignity are. Those before him ‘did not Know’: and refused to take serious measures and even demanded this – “Now”- distraught” grandmother – then to return to the evil- pit – of unbearable crime. ((But she had the blessing of the “Workers” — nothing else mattered.)). She must return to the “pit” or else would be homeless and starve. So, this is just a continuation of decades of the long record of the ministry in a foreign land. Those down-under cannot go back home. They have to stay and live with the decision of their Spiritual advisors who do go home.
Or maybe in that country-down-under; where life is RAW!; AND there are no secrets: Did Judy’s reading this letter – cause such a problem; when their are NO SECRETS in this raw culture? Is it that CSA really has no debilitating effects except to make Grandmothers distraught.
Scott and Richard: “Grow-UP”! You now have sufficient sympathy for your NEXT trip home. Was that Grandmother manipulated by you, when you were so bold as to go to her daughter’s families about the secrets their Grandma told you. Why did THEY not become angry with “Grandmother”?
Does that back ward; uncaring, corrupt Government control your inability to cast-in and cast-out those scoundrels from your special ‘fellowship” who committ CSA for decades. AND mandate that you pit precious 2×2 fellowship against each other in a court of Law? But that very government is able to hold court to get a “restraining order” off of your neck with the help of “local attorney”; or did you fly one in???
The subject here is helping those who have been destroyed by criminal heinous abuse that is against God’s Law. In EVERY administration God put in place; beginning with Adam and Eve in the Garden, then when expelled from the Garden; then Noah, then Abraham. God’s Law did NOT Change: wherever or whenever. What and who tied your hands for decades to STOP it?
Your concern is for (T) that he cannot listen. BUT you need to be “fellowship” correct and ADD your concern is for the victims. Judy did something.
As you close your letter with the righteous statement: “Judy would NOT listen”!
BUT I will learn to listen. Please!
Well you did a good job of shaming the victims, their families and those who care for them. Do you feel better now?
Well I should have greeted you Chuck and Judy under your new name Please. Wonder why you changed your name? Did you really think no one would notice?
Thank you for your scriptural and wise statement. I am very much in agreement with you. I think these two workers should step down, get a job, and try to learn to read and practice the God given truths He gave us in the scriptures. These men are like children in their lack of understanding.
It doesnt matter whether she read the letter or not. You are missing the point. Judy understood the danger of this man continuing to be in a meeting with children, continuing to be a danger to children. That was her concern, and that shoud be the concern of everyone. What is worse hurt feelings or hurt and damaged kids!
👍🏼
Yes!
It’s clearly a concern to Scott too, but Americans can not impose our laws on others. True, we are to live by God’s law. Do you live in Ecuador? Do you know their laws? Do you know what happens to single mothers (especially with daughters) living in a country where it’s not against the law to behave like the devil? Here in America we have the law of the land behind us, as well as the scripture. So, We have much more expected of us!
That meeting should have been shut down immediately when the first instance of abuse occurred. What kind of fellowship could that have been with the rapist serving as elder of a meeting? That was making a mockery of God’s way. It’ seems as if the workers forgot what their mission was: to preach the gospel.
I understand the inclination to want to help, but it seems that the outcome was a huge mess with almost all parties hurt and harmed, except for the rapist. How in all good conscience could any worker stomach the thought of that man even being in a meeting, never mind serving as elder when he raped his daughter with a cutlass at their throat? This was a heinous crime. What on earth were the workers thinking? No one needs to be educated to know wrong from right. Everyone learns that in childhood. We may never know the real story but it almost doesn’t make a difference. The lesson learned is that workers should stick to preaching the gospel and leaving the handling of criminal behavior to the appropriate authorities. Since this situation was blown so badly, it would be great if all of the workers took some time away from the work to reflect on how they lost sight of their mission and get some training in how to handle situations like this one.
Absolutely right!
Well said
Yes!
I agree with you about the workers just preaching the Gospel, and the authorities that handle the law doing so. However, the victims need to be willing to come forward. Not someone else coming forward and shaming the victims and stirring a pot that can’t FIX the issue. No, our workers don’t all need to step down, there are MANY that would have handled things differently. It’s the men who thought they had the right to be above the rest (calling themselves overseers) are the troublemakers. When you put yourself above the rest, and stop praying daily (I can say that with conviction because of the terrible decisions they are making), you aren’t in that position to do your own thing, you are there to keep the love of God within our hearts by sharing the Gospel.
Yes the meeting people should have known about this evil man and as far as I read they did, the whole community did as far as I can read but did nothing! Judy should still not have revealed the victims names, that is their confidential right.
Also, yes the worker’s should have removed him from the fellowship as clearly written in
1 Corinthians 5, and this man wasn’t even a child or adult sexual abuser! The workers err greatly because they don’t follow God’s clear teachings!
I don’t know any of the people in this scandal, workers included. With so many lies and cover ups in the past, and present, it is hard for me to just believe what this letter states.
I find it difficult to understand an abuser of wife, children and grandchildren being allowed to keep taking part in meeting. Also I understand he was left an elder for some time as well.
I would love to be in Ecuador to hear all sides. It is plain that it was not handled with the help of the Holy Spirit.
People have been stopped from taking part for much, much less.
There are still questions, only an honest person will tell all the truth, and they are few and far between.
This whole worldwide horrific mess is due to lack of Godly men, and Godly leadership.
These men may be telling the truth, but it only comes out when they are accused . It all should have been exposed much earlier, but again, the big problem of covering, covering, covering.
I wouldn’t begin to think that this is the end of the story, and why did it take so long in coming? Hopeful but not convinced.
After reading Scott and Richard´s letter, explaining the situation here in Ecuador, I just want to thank them for telling the story with respect and humbleness. The most important thing is to help those in need and understand their suffering respecting their wishes, and that´s what these workers did. The victims´ parents could have easily sued T 20 years ago, 10 years ago, and even now, but they didn´t choose to do that, and the workers respected that. What they needed was quite different from what Judy and Carlos thought and wanted, and that´s another reason they couldn´t help the victims and ended up hurting and harming them. It was also sad for the family and us when Judy sued Richard. I heard the recording as well when Richard pointed out what P had mentioned regarding the letter, but Judy simply couldn´t accept anything that was against her will, she thought that everything had to be done the way she wanted. Maybe one of the main reasons was because they wanted to blame Leroy Lerwick, a very respectful worker, who was maybe more Ecuadorian for the time being in this country.
But we know everything is in God’s hands and we should trust him more and more.
No everything is not in God’s Hands, because look where we are these days, God’s allowed it to happen because wrong prevailed. When right comes to all of this mess and it gets rightsided then and only then God will shine through the cover up
Jaime, thank you for your ,love, care and respect for the victims and their families. I also want to thank you for standing up for Leroy Lerwick who I know well. To say he had a love for you Ecuadorians would be an understatement.
In the US and many countries, if you have knowledge of CSA it is mandatory for you to report it. Truthfully none of us needs the LAW to tell us that we should do everything in our power to protect he most vulnerable. It doesnt matter whether or not they wanted it reported or whether or not they wanted anyone else to know. Anyone who met in that meeting had a RIGHT to know and protect there kids. He should have been removed LONG ago. This was more about damage control than actual care about the safety and damage to the liittle ones. These things are not at all Christlike or Godly.
Agree!
And who was going to protect the other vulnerable children? Were they to be molested as well because everyone wanted to hush things up? Sorry, a big part of the problem is the covering up.
Bottom line is; those who could speak up, were listened to, ( maybe) while those who had no voice were ignored.
You were not a voice for the voiceless 🥹
If you are trying to justify your actions, I understand, we are all guilty of that sometimes, but that is dishonest and ugly . Just admit to the truth, you will gain respect, and favour with God.
I hear that you are young, we make many mistakes when we are young. Not sure of your ages, regardless it’s in the past, repent and start listening to God.
Jesus sent His disciples out with a message, the Gospel, they returned home to wife’s and children. It’s not normal what you workers are trying to do, it’s Not working. Many become power hungry, authoritarian ,etc, perhaps it’s time to just go home.
No confidence — “Not sure of your ages, regardless it’s in the past, repent and start listening to God”. NC, I agree with your post, but this I don’t. IF someone is in a position of leadership in a religious capacity, it’s not a time for on the job training. Life has no do overs. When you have the ability to greatly impact the entire rest of another persons life, and you are a religious leader, you had better been listening to God BEFORE you got the position, not AFTER you messed it up! You also said, “Jesus sent His disciples out with a message, the Gospel”. That is true. Having said that, workers are NOT disciples! There was only twelve disciples. You were correct noting, “they returned home to wife’s and children. It’s not normal what you workers are trying to do, it’s Not working”. You are absolutely correct about that.
For Christ, you are 100% correct it is not the time for on the job training. I realized this very same thing but, trying to keep post short.
And yes I do realize the workers are not the same as the apostles that Jesus sent out, although many feel that they are, this is another problem that we have , and can’t address them all here now.
I was trying to point out that they were sent with a simple message, simple ordinary family men, sent with a simple message.
Today they have become rulers, and while claiming to be celibate,( which was not and is not, required by God) well, you know the rest………….. they are anything but…………. Apologies to those who are honest.Are you sure you should remain in the ministry under such corrupt leadership, going out in a way that Jesus never approved?
Sorry, I am off topic.
None of this would be the muddy mess that it is if workers would do or would have done in the past, the RIGHT THING IMMEDIATELY. Kick the abusers OUT OF FELLOWSHIP Upon hearing of allegation. You do not hold someone’s salvation in your hands and neither does being in fellowship mtgs, it is a relationship with a person and the Lord. Workers need to STOP trying to keep people in fellowship that are abusers.
This is not hard, this is not gray, this is BLACK AND WHITE. You’re an abuser, you’re out! Scott and Richard and every other worker that has made this a crazy tangled web and tried to use their own human logic and reasoning, humbly step aside.
This would have never gotten complex and a spitting match between two sides if you had done the right thing immediately!
A concerned mother, right back to you woman! I share your Mother’s burden. Thank you for sharing that’s completely the way it should be and should have always been! Do I need to say it again……The Children are the Hope of the kingdom and how Dare anyone put them in harms way to further their OWN agenda.
A concerned mother — you are right! The same thing happened with the AUGUST 30, 2023 BY WINGSFORTRUTH2, Letter to Australasian Overseers. That letter was needed because of the huge mess there. And the resulting letter looks the plans to build the Tower of Babel. Very complicated, trying to deal with the big mess. You said exactly what the problem is here, in Australia, in the U.S., and everywhere else: “None of this would be the muddy mess that it is if workers would do or would have done in the past, the RIGHT THING IMMEDIATELY”. There’s so much talk about being, ” spirit lead”. What is needed is common sense and for people to operate on the principles that Jesus taught. It’s not complicated. But, the workers once again made a “muddy mess”. Does anyone see Jesus, or his disciples ever make such a mess? Jesus made sense, got to the point, kept it simple, and did it right the first time. Follow that and stop the concern with form, dress and works. An excellent example of the Lord’s simplicity is the Lord’s prayer (Matthew 6:5-15). It makes sense, to the point and is simple. Yes, and do the RIGHT THING IMMEDIATELY.
Yes!
Well said. Agreed 100%
We have heard about the “abuse of power” in the ministry from Charlie on a CCF Zoom. We invite Richard to share his side of the Ecuador story on a CCF Zoom. Come join us and 3,900+ ….. https://connected-and-concerned-friends.mn.co/share/CTu88wDyuFwaahVT?utm_source=manual
It seems the participants on both sides of this rancor are well intended. But they are foreigners there. Perhaps a trusted arbitrator of the local culture could navigate these waters and these North Americans could just sit back.
Richard Harbur….whether Judy should or shouldn’t have read the letter, whether “B” changed her mind or not, whether the law only started prosecuting CSA since 2018, all of this doesn’t matter!
What matters is that YOU and SCOTT have presented yourselves as messengers of the God of heaven, carriers of the Gospel of Jesus and as such you are automatically held to a higher standard. Do you really need the LAW to tell you that what this man has done is wrong? Shouldnt you have acted regardless of the LAW. Do you really think that what this man has done, horiffically raping his children and grandchildren has made him worhy of partaking in the emblems? Do you really think that some one who has divorced and remarried is less worthy than a monster such as this? How is it possible that most ordinary persons would be horrified by what this man has done, but it just flies over the head of the very people we expect to have wisdom, compassion, and the love of Christ?
This has been the most shattering and heartbreaking thing for me. These monsters amd evil abusers we know what to expect from them. But it is absolutely disappointing that we are not seeing the Godly qualities and the Godly decisions from those we thought better of.
I agree!
I understand your indignation, but you don’t seem to grasp their prediciment. This was all going on long before Scott ever got over there (I don’t know anything about Richard). He’s an American citizen. He’s not the overseer. Do you know why the wife didn’t want the victims turned in, or the meeting removed? This is a community that’s out in the jungle with ONE home where meetings are held…it’s not like they have 23 different meetings to choose from. Nope, it wasn’t the right decision. But, the wife tried leaving and that didn’t work. She probably missed being in meeting…who knows. Just like it’s not the right decision for parents to keep a crime hidden because their children don’t want anyone to know! That actually makes the parents complicit. The victims will find healing once it’s all out in the open…but, kept hidden, it will fester until it’s a volcano!
It is actually the Elders (Bible refers to them as the Overseers) who are supposed to be dealing with all this type of stuff and NOT the workers! So, shame on the other Elders for NOT upholding the scripture and standard of Christ.
Scott—I hope you will stay in the ministry and on the WANidAK staff where you will receive training and guidance from GRACE. Every one of us (workers and friends) needs more training, policy and procedures re CSA/SA. We need professional guidance. My suggestion is to stay where you can learn and benefit from this resource.
Anon — “Every one of us (workers and friends) needs more training, policy and procedures re CSA/SA. We need professional guidance”. Really?! Doesn’t your Bible, the actual teachings of God, provide the answers about child sex abuse, and sex abuse? My Bible does. Maybe the Bible would be a benefit for workers and friends, if they read it and actually followed the teachings, instead of traditions? Just a suggestion.
Anon…These decisions did not and do not need training and guidance from GRACE, this is BASIC human decency. A worker cannot save a monster like this by keeping him in fellowship. That will only be between him and God and maybe a therapist.
You’re kidding of course. No Scott you do not need to stay in the work and receive training from Grace. The Holy Spirit is a better teacher but you didn’t listen.
So I murder someone, my wife and children does not want you to go to the police. Do you not have a lawful obligation, a moral obligation to go to the law?
What if I murder someone else, would not some of the blame fall on you?
Child sexual abuse and physical abuse is against the law of God and of man, it’s criminal, why do workers want to harbour criminals?
Did you not once think of the potential of other children being sexually abused?
Disgusted, disheartened, with all you workers and overseers who lack good moral judgment and Spiritual wisdom. All who are guilty PLEASE STEP DOWN while you have the opportunity, before GOD decides, ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
Yes!
We do not need GRACE or any other organization. We all need to have the Spirit of God…which IF we did, NONE of this would have even been possible. The Bible has the Word of God, and the Spirit gives us the power to do it! However, I do think everyone needs to learn more about this horrible crime, and be aware that the scripture talks about WOLVES in sheeps clothing…and it is NOT referring to just false preachers!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CshBuTauwSg
So what do you do if you are in Ecuador with a criminal in your meeting?
I would forsure not want to be in the same meeting as the monster, would be nice to gather up a group and chase him into the wilderness, but that’s wishfull thinking.
Some communities would go to the extreme and wipe him of the face of the 🌎.
What are Christians to do beside ex communicate him if there are no laws for these crimes?
They should at least have started by excommunicating him from the very beginning, that would maybe have saved someone a lifetime of sorrow. Many have been excommunicated for WAY less!
God my heart goes out to all children and vulnerable one’s, please protect them when no one else would or could protect them🌷
I know we all sin many times, as a Christian we should not sin willfully, but I will allways say that it is a different story than thinking evil thoughts towards other’s, especially children and vulnerable one’s, planning to execute your evil plan and then executing it, this opinion of mine is undebatable, it will remain for the rest of my life on 🌎
To all perputrators of sexual abuse, I whish I could use a tazer on you untill you could not use your God given gift that you have used to abuse other’s any more.This might not be very Christian like….I don’t care.
The worker said, “The abuser was calm and quiet, and appeared humble, yet I never felt he truly repented. It was during this time that I AGONIZINGLY tried to figure out how to guide us as a group (really?)… (The sexual predator) has a large handful of great nieces living there who are just at the age that all of these women and girls were at the time of their abuse… I seriously considered asking this (sexual predator) to no longer attend the meeting. However, from a safety standpoint and considering the unique elements of this particular situation I didn’t feel like this would actually make anything safer. (The sexual predator) was not in meeting with any of his victims…I’m willing to step down if it would help reestablish trust and be an action of apology to all victims worldwide. I value my place in the ministry, but it cannot come at the cost of suffering, abused and silenced people within or without our fellowship. I am sorry for the mistakes I have made”. …Look how MANY TIMES this worker says, ” I”!!! Where did he ever say, “Jesus said”…., or ” The Bible” says…? The worker NEVER referenced the Bible, just himself, as “I thought…” If there is any questions why the ” truth ” is in such a mess, look no further than what this worker attempted to do HIMSELF. To make a case for not being able to follow common sense and decency, or behavior that conforms to accepted standards of morality or respectability, and not following the standards set by Jesus. A weak apology does not cut it! Yes, this guy IS totally a self righteous human and doesn’t belong in a religious leadership position. This “worker”, like many other workers seem to think they are the answer and actually, they are the problem. The reason: pride and their unwillingness to receive that which God shows them; they need to change. The answers are ALL IN THE BIBLE!!! It is very obvious that this worker either does not know the Bible, or he thinks he’s above it. In Psalm 26:5 it tells us IF we should have fellowship with sexual preditors, of children no less. The Word of God is clear, “abhor the assembly of evildoers and refuse to sit with the wicked”. This WORKER, though said, “from a safety standpoint and considering the unique elements of this particular situation I didn’t feel like this would actually make anything safer. (The sexual predator) was not in meeting with any of his victims”. Worldwide this is THE thinking of this religion, follow the rules of the worker (I), and not the Bible. The Bible is simple. The workers rules, from focusing on dress codes and hair styles, and NOT sexualized predators, is a mess. ” Just make sure you have on a nice long dress, though. That is the problem, and have your hair up because otherwise, you look too sensual ” (actually spoken by a male worker at a gospel meeting). That is messed up!
Yes!
You don’t understand his letter, because you are not involved, and/or don’t understand the situation. He’s answering as to why HE did what he did. People have been demanding answers…again, because they don’t know. He immediately wanted to remove the meeting. You can not look at another countries situation and demand everything be handled the same way as we would here in America. Ecuador is creating laws and just this past March updated their laws to give even more help to the csa victims, but most communities can’t put people in prison because they can’t afford to feed/house them…so, what “safety” was there to be had? If they turn T in, what will that do for them? Enrage him? I don’t know how many hours travel time it would be for the wife and her children to travel to another city for meeting, but…there’s not another one in that community to attend elsewhere. It’s unfortunate that the other Elders didn’t remove the meeting from his home, as that’s not really Scott or Richard’s decision. Their job is to preach the Gospel. Period.
I don’t know where you grew up to come up with these generalizations of Truth, but I never grew up having to DO anything a worker shared (gave their opinion on) IF I didn’t ask them for advice about something. We grew up understanding that the Spirit of God will teach us how to behave and live…and it doesn’t give different information to one person than it does to another because God isn’t a respector of persons.
When I grew up, ALL the women were wearing the latest fashion in modest clothing and hair styles that were appropriate for long hair (using it for a head covering, like the Bible states). Stop blaming the ‘workers’ for your scriptural ignorance. I CHOOSE to wear a long (to the floor) dress, because my legs are not something I want anyone asking questions about. Yes, I’ve had sister workers say nasty things to me about wearing “worldly clothing”…and when I work on the ranch, I wear jeans/pants to keep myself modest. I don’t care what their opinion is. It’s not scriptural, and they need not focus on the gnats, when they need to be focused on the camel’s! They need to start loving each other enough to stop abusing each other physically,verbally, and sexually. The Bible says that the World will know that they are mine by the love shown to one another. Love comes when there’s trust. So, either accept the scripture and the position you were called into, or perhaps you weren’t truly called?
Thank you Louise, You are so correct! The workers don’t follow God’s clear teachings. The workers are leavened from the beginnings of this group which came into being 125 years ago. They are like confused children trying to handle such horrible situations their way instead of the way God has told man to handle such horror. Thank you for your clear, simple, accurate and God directed statement. I wish the workers would learn from you, but they are sick and sleeping just like the Corinthian church of Paul’s day. They think they have all the answers, but they are like corrupted children.
I wish to add on to my previous comment, Louise. You are correct,! God gave that church the right, power and responsibility to remove that man from the fellowship, and that is what they should of done. The workers made a terrible mess. There are people in this string that are saying Leroy Lerwick was such a good man. This is not true . I had personal experience with him 35 years ago. I and a group of elders were directed to meet with him when I tried to expose Ira Hobbs as the corrupted, hell bent child molesters that he was and still is. When we meet with Leroy, in Limon, Colorado, 35 years ago, he did not want to hear the accusations against Ira. He quickly told the elders that had come with me, that I was an ” enemy of truth”. That immediately scared those elders and they no longer had the desire and will to stand up against Ira. If Leroy had done what God wants in such a case, he would of quickly reported Iras evil to the senior overseers. Instead he called me an enemy of truth, when he in fact he was the enemy of truth. I don’t know if Leroy was or is a fornicator, but he is as guilty as a fornicator for covering and hiding the fornicator Ira Hobbs. I think God removed Leroy from the work when Leroy became an angry mental patient. I think it is very good that he is out of the work. No one should respect him, because he proved himself to be the enemy of truth. He is disgusting in my opinion. I’m so glad God put him out of the work. He is a leavened tool of Satan, but hopefully he can no longer hurt the church.
And look at the horrors that Ira went on to perpetrate, all because this man and others like him refused to do the right thing immediately. INTEGRITY sorely lacking.
Because Ira Hobbs along with hundreds of head workers/overseers…have not been praying without ceasing, and keeping the word of God, and instead have chosen to be WOLVES in sheeps clothing. Hopefully, this young sister’s lawsuit puts him behind bars for the rest of his life, and his hateful wife is put out of fellowship for her horrble treatment of victims!
Thank you Dale for standing up against these wolves, despite the cost! Was it you that wrote the letters regarding Ira and how you tried to get the workers to do what is right but it fell on deaf ears? I was and still are heart broken for what you and your family had to endure through the hands of these false teacher’s and hell bent abusers, they have proven through the fruit they have beared who they are!
I have tried several year’s ago to talk to many workers and friends about these horrific issues but to no avail, they just blew me of.They didn’t even listen to victim’s and parents, so to swat me away was easy when I wanted to talk about these abuses I read on the internet.Not one admitted that there has been or were any cases of child sexual abuse, I was send a sermon about the evils of the internet by Johan Kotzé, the overseer of South-Africa.He personally knew about CSA perputrators!The previous overseer of Pennsylvania ignored my request to put policies in place to protect the children, I spoke personally with Ray Hoffman, he ignored my questions about abuse and sexual immorality, regarding the doctrine he just used humiliation to silence me, I have no respect for him.The rest I asked in e mails but they kept as silent as the grave.
Yes you are right they think they and they alone as the “anointed one’s of God” have the right answers but they fail to see they are the one’s as the Pharisees in Jesus day, who are the naked, blind, arrogant and pridefull one’s for whom Jesus had no sympathy, most likely because they had none for others.
The arrogance of Leroy to not want to even hear the accusations against Ira! Most likely he was protecting his own skeletons!
They have proven by their actions that they indeed were and are wolves in sheep’s clothing, caring nothing about the sheep and lambs in the fold!
Isn’t it ironic, him calling you the enemy of the “truth” while they infact are the enemies of God’s Truth! People have to expose these wolves in sheep’s clothing and ex communicate them, but if they will is another question? They haven’t for many decades.I left this fellowship several year’s ago and will never return.
Louise and Dale: IF The phrase: an angry “mental patient” is not a bad enough condition: “just try” the in your “right mind” and the gripping horror of no control; wishing your mind, emotions, spirit could forget – innocent, trusting minds of our little ones damaged by a WAY and the ministry of “it” that Paul describes as: 2 Corinthians 11:13 -:15. How can anyone hear, read and know any of the decades of knowing and then the efforts to STOP IT ALL; result was a knife was thrust deep as good scared men submitted to a satanic ministry and kept their treasured, honored place of “Elder”. Just remember if WAY is “satanic”; so is your treasured, honored place. Oh, the ‘web of man’s religion’ is only as ALL through God’s Book: puts man at TOP and”demands the mere mortals” — feed the TOP”. God operates exactly the opposite!
OH, AFT; we are so grateful for YOUR Refusal to back down; ignore; and completely STOP your LIFE! to address the HORROR of a humble religious LIE!
It is impossible to comprehend the depth of deceit and depth of pain. Oh ,each and everyone ‘DO NOT NOW give platitudes”! WAKE-UP!
YOU CAN DO SOMETHING! STAND for the victims. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!
They cannot be allowed to lull you into ALL IS WELL! No body is perfect!
THIS is their “fruit”.
What can you do??? God has left his WILL in your Bible! All that is necessary for you TO KNOW and Understand ALL of God’s word: Paul told those carnal Corinthians in 1 Corinthians2:10 God reveals even the”deep things of God”! Just simply read and know and understand God’s Holy Word as actually written”. What is written for your learning: Genesis through Acts 12.
What is written for you to believe-do-obey and live. Romans 1: through Philemon.
2 Peter 3:15 – :16 Peter points those faithful, weary Jews; who followed Jesus and the 12 apostles fleshly ministry to bring God’s Chosen Nation back to God::: the reason THAT God was NOW “long-suffering”. (God’s time table of events was on hold)BECAUSE God was “long-suffering”.
WHY? FOR “Salvation”: ‘beloved bro Paul’ HAS BEEN given this “wisdom”.
Do you know the “Wisdom given to Paul”??? You must pray for God to help you read, study and learn, and understand. Yes, it is a brutal battle; BUT learn the 12 apostles Doctrine in Acts 2:42-46! Is that Your’s? God is able to teach.
Thank you to each of YOU, who have tried; desperately brought; in all honesty of Heart, Mind, and Soul: refused to give-up for our little ones AND then you were destroyed! FOR DECADES! this has happened! KNOW THIS WAY by it’s “fruit”! When you say to your “maker”: But I didn’t KNOW: they said—- in Gospel Meetings and Sp. Mtg.s and Conv.’s and it so touched our hearts—-::: God will say: HOW MANY Bibles did you have in your home?, How many were sitting on your chair side table, so all could see! THAT is MY Word, and MY Plan is written in simple words; I gave you an intelligent mind to understand. I even told you about SATAN coming as an “Angel of Light” to warn you. I Gave My Word to you as a piece of MY “armour” for you to withstand the wiles of satan? WHY? You read, yes, now! Ephesians 6:12!
Thank you, Louise, for the web address to access the “Advocates For Truth” update: What an encouragement and comfort for the weary souls that feared nothing could or would ever be done; as they huddled in agony: unspeakable knowledge and disbelief: for decades. Than you each and everyone who have laid your life; your family; your heart mind and spirit: on the “line” to help heal and comfort the abused in the Name of God!!! Please, we pray it can ALL be exposed – admitted – “STOPPED”.
Dale, since I was one of those who spoke positively about Leroy Lerwick, I will try to address your post. All that I said about Leroy was my experience with him. You apparently had a different experience 35 years ago. You speak of nothing else that he did to you or anyone else. It would seem to be that there is a lot more to the story about your interaction with Leroy 35 years ago? Nor do we hear what evidence you had on IH? Nor do we hear if you did your duty and went to the authorities with your evidence to get this man off the street and away from all children?
It has taken me awhile to respond to you when you wrote at the end you were so glad that Leroy was now where he is. A man suffering from frontal alone dementia, a genetic disease that took his sister and several near relatives. Hard to read that anyone would be happy for that.
Richard Harbur is scheduled to be the featured platform sitter at the Utica Dakota convention. Maybe he can do a Q&A on this CSA situation in the “jungle” (Porter’s word, not mine) after the Saturday night meeting. Someone can the take notes and post them on Wings.
Word in Dakota has it that Harbur is the Saturday Nite Meeting speaker at Utica. He will not even have to leave the platform before his Q&A. Not sure if Perry made this list before going home to Wisconsin.
When I first read Scott’s letter I thought wow, I’m glad he was there to handle that situation . And I was glad for his thoughtful and I am sure prayerfull seeking out Gods advise on what to do. I’m sure many scriptures went through his mind and many tears. Some on this site talk about how the workers made a mess, no friends they encountered a mess that had existed in this case for decades and probably for this area goes back centuries.
Child sexual abuse is a condition that most of us grew up quite unaware of.
This story of sexual abuse in a family setting is so contrary to everything we love and have experienced in our lives is way beyond our comprehension.
Like some have said we learned as a child these things were wrong, we didn’t need education or a course to teach it. We might ask how did we know as a child these things were wrong? I can’t answer for everyone here but in my case it was because I had loving parents that taught me right from wrong.
Not all children have that blessing. I believe I saw the statistic that child sexual abuse occurs within families for 30% of the cases. I’m not sure whether this is for the USA or worldwide? But I do know there are areas in the world and societies where it is rampant.
In the case that we are talking about here, many on this site have indignity stated that they could not understand why the victims or their parents and the townspeople didn’t rise up etc. I would suggest, trying to understand others who as a child were not taught right and wrong by loving parents, but were taught that deviant abuse is normal is futile. Do we really begin to understand what it is like for our workers to go into these countries with such different upbringings and try to help them? Some have said sire, just preach the gospel. Really? Just leave it to the authorities? What authorities would you suggest?
As I said in the beginning I am glad that Scott and his companion were there to help guide those who were caught up in this situation, and that above all they were a comfort to the victims and their families. It was appropriate that after caring for them that they immediately confronted the abuser and took him out from being the elder. I also commend them for going throughout the area and making sure that all the friends knew about the abuser
I wish these workers/overseers would stop spending so much time on explaining all these smaller concerns amongst the friends in the field, and stay focused on the CSA that was continued because they didn’t take a sick pedophile out of attending any meeting. Clearly, he couldn’t/can’t control himself so why was he allowed to be in meeting? When did it become OK to have a fellowship meeting with criminals and immoral people? Research shows pedophiles do not change their abusive behaviors. Our schools and workplaces are safer than the fellowship! This is black and white! Many have been removed from meetings for far lesser immoral offenses!
Please show you are sorry for your actions that caused more abuse to children by stepping down from any type of leadership role in the fellowship. It’s hard enough to except the volume of pedophiles in the fellowship, but it’s a slap in the face to realize the ones you thought were upholding the standards they were preaching, actually continued to allow these pedophiles to stay in the fellowship. It has nothing to do with the laws of the land anywhere. These are obvious evil, dangerous, abusive behaviors by a known man. It has nothing to do with announcing or naming victims. You knew it was happening and you should’ve just removed the man from any meetings. Furthermore, you should’ve kept a list of such names, so if a pedophile moved somewhere his name could be shared with the new area to prevent him from re-entering meetings.