Olympia, WA Overseer Elder Congregation meeting

August 5, 2023

These are paraphrased notes from my own attendance. They are meant to give a general overview, and not to be verbatim.

(W)-Richard DenHerder, Doyle Smith, Rob Newman, Darryl Doland

(C)- congregation- around 100 people from around the region, including Alaska. Also several workers not speaking.

Hymn 240

W-Thank you for coming. There are a lot of things to talk about, but the focus will be on the process of choosing an overseer for Washington. One thing we’ve thought about in the last few months is that we want to hear more from people. We haven’t been listening enough. If we listen to more people we could make better choices. We called you to help us. I hope you understand that choosing isn’t a democratic process, it’s a spiritual process. Be careful that we all pray about it and that it’s scriptural and respectful. I’ve been in V the last 8 years and I love it there. But I love Washington, too. I’m torn between the 2 places. I want it to be God’s choice. If I say strong things about what I prefer, that isn’t the spirit of God. Jesus said “Not my will…” that’s the basis for every good thing that happens for us. We’re going to leave the meeting open for people to ask questions. We hope and pray God chooses the overseer and it becomes evident to these other 3. Be considerate of each other. There are lots of ideas among us, so give as much time to as many people as possible. If you want to talk to any of us individually, or a general question.

C-Why is a democratic selection not spiritual?

W-The potential downfall of a democratic selection is that we’re choosing our favorites. We don’t want human favorites. If I was democratically chosen, I wouldn’t want that. I want it to be God’s anointing.

C- God works in each of us. We’ve seen where individuals/small groups can fall short. Allowing God to work in each of our hearts, His word can influence each heart…the less likely a single individual will harm the work of God. God working through as many people. The bigger the group that has something laid on their hearts, the more likely it won’t be a favorite, but God’s working.

C- Why are you 3 part of the choosing committee? Scripture doesn’t back the behavior of the overseers here. No one has defined the job description. Overseers have left the role of serving. We have no idea how overseers are chosen, and most of us have been a part of fellowship for our whole lives. The majority of overseers have been abusers or have other things that disqualify them from the overseer position and the work and that includes you 3. How do we address the corruption when the corrupt are in charge? Some of us believe you 3 should step down and others should follow.

W-Have you talked to these men about these accusations?

C-There has been no repentance or assuming of their responsibility for this mess.

W- Let’s make a rule about dealing with things like Matt 18.

C-l agree. I think we’re in the time where this is before the church. I have talked to RN on the phone. I have gone with witnesses to MH. Right now these are the grievances of the church to them. We are past a secret meeting and this is time for them to answer before everyone.

W-What does everyone think? Should we go to other questions? Not everyone? Ok. What do you say?

W-Doesn’t understand oversight or God’s process.

C-You’re claiming to be a part of God’s process, when you’ve been a part of the corruption? This is serious! We are saying that if this can’t be fixed, we can’t be a part of this church. We want it cleansed with repentance and restoration. We haven’t heard any repentance before the church.

W-ln the worst case scenario, do you think the Lord can overrule?

C-l believe in the power of God. I think God is revealing this and we’re all responsible now.

C-Concern about the behaviors we’ve been hearing about. When I heard RD might be overseer, I researched and was very concerned. (List of accused overseers). What was the process of them being overseers? Some process put these men in charge. They have done horrible things that have torn people’s lives apart. We are asking hard questions because this can’t happen again. How is it going to be different this time?

W-l haven’t ever been involved in the process. I’m a young overseer. I don’t feel able. I don’t want a vote. This isn’t about choosing a king, it’s about choosing the most humble, worthy servant. Jesus said that the greatest among you is a servant, not the one that exercises authority. Samuel was asked to anoint David, he didn’t know it was going to be David. God only told him it would be one of Jesse’s sons. No one would accuse Samuel of being corrupt. He thought it would be the oldest son, and God said “no”. God looks at the heart. These are just words, it takes actions to convince anybody. The desperate prayer of our heart is that God’s will is done. I have made mistakes in the last year, but that is my desperate prayer, especially now. They didn’t even bring David, because it was obvious to everyone else he wouldn’t be the man. It makes human logic a scary thing. I don’t want a vote…we want a unanimous vote of 1 -0 that it’s God’s decision. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t have confidence that God answers prayers. Everyone here has prayed about this. God is more concerned than we are that this is right. Our united prayer is that God will overrule and will make the decision. We respect your input, that’s why we’re here. What’s happening in Washington is unprecedented… we’re talking to everyone on the staff, we’ve invited people to come…if they’re anything known that would affect a decision for positive or negative…   that’s why we’re trying to communicate. We respect God’s feelings the most.

C-l appreciate the comments about process. There was a process for how we were picked for our place. When I sin I can’t blame the process.

C-The requirement of a steward is that he is just and faithful. Ex. Elijah He built the alter of sacrifice from the ground up. He put his faith and life on the line for what he believed in. That’s what we’re looking for. Unjust steward-Jesus said he would lose his place. Influencing others to be unjust is even graver. An unjust steward isn’t trusted with riches and is misrepresenting truth. He embodies a false witness and a false minister. That’s what we’re concerned about. Some are boycotting, or have asked for meetings to be taken out of their home. This is a worldwide problem. We want a just steward.

C-We have had our trust rocked. How can we trust that you’re going to do the right thing? Story of his daughter on the trail at Olympia convention, nearly raped by a brother worker.

C- I’m here for the victims. Our trust has been broken for generations. Heartbroken for the honest workers. Been in combat and in bunkers, but I’ve never been as scared as I am right now. The people in charge need to step down. A pedophile under treatment was put in my home. Not acceptable. A company that has someone with something that goes wrong….they step down or are made to step down. They have lost confidence. Ignorance isn’t bliss, it’s complicity. God gave us brains…there are decisions easy to make that God doesn’t need to be a part of. It scares me to have DD put in a position where there is so much corruption, because I care about him. Any worker that tried to silence a victim or cover up behavior needs to step down.

C-This is once in a lifetime… an unseated overseer. Elders need to share things with their meetings. That is divisive. Fears about DS orchestrating things. Fears about RD being the next overseer. (RD said Milltown was the first he’d heard of himself being an overseer consideration). All we can do is pray. Mentioned cases of 2 former workers (one OR and one CA) who evidently had relationships while in the work.

W-With a CSA allegation, everyone needs to know. That wasn’t the case with the OR former brother.

C- When we find out that workers use our WIFI and resources to carry on affairs, it breaks our hearts and our trust. We deserve to know that. If I have an affair, I am asked not to take part, so why are we being secretive about workers stepping out of line. If there are things happening in my home, I deserve to know. All we want is an apology saying “I’m not __, but  he was a part of my staff and I’m so sorry for what he did.”

W-l AM sorry. That’s why he’s not active. I don’t blame people for having broken trust. If we’re who we claim to be, you should be able to trust us.

C-Term limits for overseers…  5/6/10 years….to have accountability and be reviewed at the end of the term. Will GRACE program help streamline communication if there is a situation with workers in your field or if the workers felt uncomfortable in a home… so new workers aren’t coming into a field not knowing what’s happening in that field. And so people in the field can make wise choices about who comes into their homes. Sheep can’t settle when there is a wolf among them. We’ve seen lots of wolf behavior and we can’t settle until the wolf is gone.

W-We acknowledge the problems. We’ve heard and we believe and we’re working to rectify them as much as possible. Let’s talk about CSA for a little while. It’s on our minds. Here’s what we’re doing right now:

1. I will go and talk to as many victims as will talk to me and I’ll apologize to them. I’ll ask if there is anything we can do to help them.
2. Educating staff-everyone has taken the Ministry Safe program…a place to start.
3. We are looking into GRACE program. Early next week we will make a decision. GRACE is a company that takes care of issues in churches. They give a number that you can call for reporting. Info goes to a panel of professional people. Can the panel have 3rd party and some of our own people? Probably will be all 3rd party. They will be able to see patterns. Be able to identify and deal with things sooner. They will teach staff so they know how to report. Because we’re not trained we can say things that shut victims down. We call the police and ask questions later. We aren’t qualified to do this work.
4. We’ve started a victim fund.

Sometimes because we don’t say that we acknowledge the problem, it’s assumed that we don’t know. We know. I have someone close to home who is a victim-survivor. We feel personal commitment to do something about this. Other states are looking at what we’re doing and want to be a part of it. It’s making children and vulnerable people safer in WA and around the globe.

C-l see a bishop and an elder in scripture. With wives and families. Financial problems, marriage problems, neighbor problems…these get elevated to workers…maybe elders need lifted up to help carry the burden of things they understand. AKAA/A/NID is too big. There is no way that all the emails can be responded to when the area is too big. If there isn’t a process for an overseer in the scripture, maybe it’s not meant to have an overseer. I am not a supporter of GRACE. I don’t want a corporation dealing with our problems…! want it to be one of my brothers. Maybe pause the whole process and work on things that need to be worked on. God can lead us.

C-Saying you’re doing something for the victims, but leaving predators in the meetings. Story of current case in AK. Our meetings are for fellowship and worship, not for people to be there to pick off kids. That is prudence, not unforgiveness. God can work with them outside the camp.

C-This is my 3rd time being led astray so my trust is zero. If I build my foundation on particles of rock, it will fall. My only hope is in the solid rock of Jesus.

C-We’re here because we care. There’s no question we have a serious problem. God burned Sodom. God flooded in Noah’s time. This is serious. We’re thankful DD has listened and taken action. “I don’t hear what you say because what you do speaks so loudly.” What we do   matters. “It’s all about the fruit.” Bad fruit has been exposed. This is systemic. We got away from Christ and there is a lot of tradition and man’s doctrine in the way. We need the fundamentals of our salvation. We’re watching walk. The light is shown on ourselves as much as on our ministry. Be courageous in what we do. “Shine the light brightly”…if you don’t know what’s going on, shame on you. Have discernment. Is it the strongest personality that chooses the overseer? The ones with the most authority? I’ve known DD since he went into the ministry…   he’s thoughtful and led by God…he has the ability to make decisions and we’ve seen his actions. This is an important decision. Shepherd’s lead from the rear…if there’s trouble, they go to the front. That’s the servant we need.

C-I’m convinced this is the true way of God. Satan is working overtime. God is in control. My faith and trust aren’t shaken, but my heart hurts.

C-l support GRACE. In the military, the wing man is just as guilty as the perp. They had a separate out-of-the-chain-of-command number for reporting. It’s easier to reach out to a faceless number. Try to be less wrong…it might have been right yesterday, but when we know better, we need to improve. Comparing the incomparable: why are CSA/SA treated differently (less strictly) than divorce and remarriage/pregnancy out of wedlock/etc. Every sin is equal to God, but not in the safety of man. Our priorities are wrong. Some sins are dealt with in the light of day, and then there’s effort to hide other sins or bring pedophiles back to meeting. This destroys generations of families. ..it’s not less important than someone cheating on their spouse or fornication. Priorities need changed.

C-What assurance do we have that you will step down if something goes wrong in your leadership? 800 signatures on a letter didn’t bring an acknowledgment or any change. One worker even changed his email.

W-lt’s God’s way. If God has withdrawn his spirit from me, I can’t go on. God made it clear that he is cleaning house and is in control. I’ll be out the door if his spirit goes away. The reality of an overseer is humility. Hannah put Samuel with the mess of Eli and his sons. God kept Samuel. God removed the problem with a little finger in one day. Jesus was strong when people were getting in the way of the little ones. God sees what’s going on. We are trying to do our part and be God-led. We believe in laying on of hands…Godly men saying God has chosen someone. It has to be God’s choice. Prayers are the most powerful thing here. God owns this whole project. It’s within his realm to solve the problems. We want to involve elders more.

W-Ditto. These are just words…it takes a life. I wouldn’t have chosen to be where I am. I wouldn’t have the courage to be here if God wasn’t involved. He knows if what I’m saying is true. If God removed his blessing, it would be impossible.

W-l feel the same way. If misbehavior on my part is so much that God takes his spirit away, I would step down. Absolutely.

C-Are you accountable to each other? If you are making bad decisions, the thought is that the spirit is not with you. Would you not be seared to the working of the spirit in yourself?

W-Yes, we’re accountable to one another.

C-What is the difference between laying on of hands and voting?

W-Jesus chose and Jesus sent. Those with age/experience are looked to. The choosing and anointing is the critical part. It’s not just people choosing. People feel moved by God to say “this is the one”

C-Scripture for that?

W-Just… laying on of hands

C-Are there only certain workers anointed by God? Couldn’t more workers have an say…not just 3 workers.

W-Are there serious concerns we don’t know about? That’s why we’re here. We trust that the right decision will be made, but if the wrong decision is made, we trust that God will correct that also.

C-ls 800 people signing a letter not a sign from God to step down?

C-20 people in CA asked you to step down. What would it take?

W-God’s leading,   f you don’t want to come to our meetings, that’s your choice. We feel like God is still with us. We have peace continuing in the way we were chosen.

C- Where in the Bible does it talk about overseers?

W-Samuel was a prophet, but the people wanted a king. Peter stood up…he wasn’t perfect..he was moved. It went from Peter to James without conflict or competition. In Jn 21 Jesus wanted Peter to love him. A true overseer loves Jesus and wants to follow the scripture.

C-So there isn’t any scripture to back up an overseer.

W-l feel there is.

W-Acts 1 says “bishop” but the actual translation is “overseer”.

C-We can want an overseer, but it does not say in the Bible that there is an overseer. That’s us putting our desires on it.

W-l can’t say I agree. There is a worldwide blessing and work without any person directing it.

C-This has made the roots go deeper for me. The common thing is abuse…a difference in power…one is stronger. Techniques of abusers… deceit, manipulation, lies. Half truths are some of the most dangerous lies. Foundation of love wouldn’t let me go, but also a bunch of traditions that are perfect for abusive relationships. I’m glad we’re finally having a discussion. There is false humility that is just pride.

C-My faith isn’t shaken, but there’s a lot of hurt. I live with victims. Finish with joy and satisfaction. I don’t want to lose my brothers. The injury to victims lasts a lifetime and goes generation to generation.

C-Don’t quit praying because you got comfortable tonight.

C-l take responsibility as an elder’s wife that until this year, I didn’t pray about an overseer being chosen. The difference for me, is I am using my responsibility to pray now.

C-To the elders on behalf of survivors: Be careful, because meeting isn’t a safe place for some right now. Scripture is being used to hurt people. Don’t insist that people come to meeting, convention and gospel meetings. Pray for your meetings. If people are taking a break, reach out with love and concern, but just ask “How can I support you?”

W-Thank you, everyone. Lots of pain and confusion here. It’s useful to understand the magnitude of what’s going on and the pain so we can have compassion for each other. When dealing with our pain, realize that other people process their pain differently than we do. I feel inspired, even though this is heavy. You all care enough to be here. It takes courage. It’s not as important that we all agree, but that we all have care for each other and are praying for each other. I will be praying for you.