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St. Louis Elder CSA/SA Protocol – June 2023
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WINGS for Truth 
At the Missouri town hall on 6/4/2023, the first question to Craig Winquist was “Do we have a zero-tolerance policy on CSA?” Craig: “Yes, it has to be zero”. If Craig can be believed, why does this group in the NE corner of Missouri need their own CSA policy? Sounds like the old wild west vigilante justice system to this old cowpoke.
redundancy is a nice safeguard
OMG… they are trying to protect children. So get down off your high horse you old cowpoke!
You trying to protect the pedophiles??
No – do not tolerate peds one bit. Just find it ironic that this group of elders did not think Craig’s CSA zero tolerance is adequate and needed their own policy. Definition of vigilante is going above authority and taking the law into one’s own hand.
Max
I have appreciated every single comment you’ve made on every post I’ve read so far. And you had my back on one post which I appreciate also. I have read the ones you wrote further down on this post as well but in regards to this one I’m replying to where you said it sounds like vigilante justice, I just wanted to point out that folks have lost a lot of trust in Workers and overseers, as the truth about “the truth” has been coming to light the last few months. Disclaimer: I am not saying that no workers can be trusted (I got talked at by someone last time I didn’t add this particular disclaimer)
What I am saying is that many of those in authority have not upheld their responsibilities to this point, in regards to the correct procedures to deal with the criminals within the group. Many of the overseers and senior workers are saying all the right things right now but it remains to be seen if they follow through on their words. The key word in your comment is “IF” he can be believed. Therefore I think it is wise for those elders and their families to have additional policies in place to help keep those in positions of authority, accountable. It may help everyone who reports a crime or every victim who comes forward, to know there is a plan B of sorts, should plan A not aid them in receiving the support they need. Again this comment comes in the nicest tone you can imagine, because I am glad to see someone standing up for what is right in this current crisis. Just advocating here that once in a while the old west vigilante justice system may have its uses
Jan – you are very kind – many say I am too direct. It appears that in this situation, the elders have put themselves in charge of deciding who is a CSA/SA offender. In the past, we had one elder who was power hungry and another who could not be trusted – both turned into lap dogs when a worker was around. Would have hated to have those two elders rooting out CSA/SA offenders – one of them would have thrown out our lovely daughter for sure (not for CSA/SA reasons). Plus, additional CSA/SA related power may go to the heads of these St. Louis elders and turn them into tyrants in short order. That many be a big part of the problem with some of the overseers and workers today – power corrupts many formerly good people. If Craig Winquist cannot do the task (that the elders think they can do better) then there really are no viable solutions . A house divided cannot stand – think Honest Abe said that back in the day.
Max,
Thank you for your reply. I hadn’t thought of it in the context you have just explained. I was more focused on being glad that SOMETHING is being done and not realizing that it does essentially just switch the decision making power from overseers to elders. To your point about Craig, and I do not know him so am not making a judgement on him, but I hope that he can be trusted to make the decisions regarding this matter. Child abuse is something that should not happen to even one more child in this world. So not only in terms of reporting and handling the aftermath of a csa report correctly, but if these people can make it a priority as leaders to consciously prevent abuse of any kind, especially csa, by taking every precaution, then I would say they are successfully filling their places and trust can be restored, at least from where I sit. Corruption happens in every single organization and the result of it here has been catastrophic. I hope, even though I no longer participate in meetings, that they can ALL be restored as safe places for everyone with the help of every person holding everyone else accountable.
Jan – I agree that CSA should not happen to any kid anywhere, especially in a Christian group of any type. Unfortunately, it may be embedded in the culture of the 2×2 group – let me explain my experience. When I was a kid in the 60’s a male cousin did an unspeakable act in front of me and other young kids. I told my professing parents (Dad was a part time elder) and they did not do or say one thing to the ped or his parents. This guy is now an older professing person (not sure what to call him). When in my early teens in the 70’s, an older respected male worker inappropriately touched me. No one did or said one thing to him, even though I again told my parents, plus a professing aunt and uncle (a part time elder). During the 80’s, the state were I lived had at least two known CSA offending male workers – they were not removed until caught in the act and even then, none of the friends knew about their bad behavior until survivor letters and court cases were revealed. These events occurred in three entirely different geographical locations in the US, showing CSA happening all over and not being dealt with.
If Dean Bruer had not been exposed, none of this recent worker and friend “cleansing” process would even be taking place. My point is that CSA/SA has been an acceptable practice in the group for many years – to stop it now will be very difficult. But, it never hurts to try.
Max,
I am sorry for what happened to you. You are right, there is a good chance it will never change. My parents also mishandled my childhood sexual abuse, and that along with other choices they’ve made to protect the appearance of the group rather than their own children, have led me to not associate with them anymore, because i now have my own children and do not intend to give the opportunity to fail to protect my children and allow abuse to them, when they could not even protect or stand up for their own child. I agree with you that none of this would be happening had Dean B’s nasty little habits not come to light as a result of his death, and I do not have high hopes that it will continue, I think all of this is a reaction, as opposed to taking action so all we can do is keep advocating for the victims and the children who aren’t victims but are exposed to predators on atleast a weekly basis if not more often. It is mildly terrifying to feel as though you are fighting an entire organization with an unspecified large amount of money and a plethora of professionals in all fields of work who are part of the group, at their disposal. But it is more terrifying to do/say nothing and be part of the problem
This was not intended to be shared on a public forum and it would be appreciated if it was removed.
This really is vigilante justice.
Please email your request to wingsfortruth@googlegroups.com.
Anonymous, why do you say, “This was not intended to be shared on a public forum and it would be appreciated if it was removed”. Why do you want to have what you do in secret not be exposed? Should not all you do be for the good of God? If so, why hide it? That is what sexual predator do — hide the assault. Now you want to hide what you’re doing. Not a good thing. God’s Thunder will one day roll. I would suggest you don’t live in hiding. God sees all!
There is nothing being done in secret. The elders agreed among themselves and with their workers to have an open line of communication so that no abuse would happen and if it is known to happen, will be immediately reported to authorities and the abused removed from any meeting. The reason for not wanting it on a public forum is simple .. for comments from the like of you, Max and all other naysayers. What we are doing to protect our meetings is not up for debate or criticism. If someone wants to use the same protocol, they are welcome to, but when it’s shared on a public forum, it just brings slander to what we are trying to do, to our elders and to our workers and overseer. Not interested. I am SO thankful God sees ALL and that His thunder will roll. God speed His return.
The abuseR removed from all meetings.
I agree 100%!
Disappointing that the writers requested that this be taken down. This was about the first post that gave me hope. But of course there is fear of retribution. I can understand that but it makes me sad.
It is extremely rare that we are asked to take down good news.
There is nothing vigilante about upholding the law. This protocol followed the very practices used by most organizations. It is a proactive and appropriate protocol if used as written. Well done to those folks in St. Louis for providing a great model for others.
There is a lot to like about what these elders are doing. They are trying to work together, hopefully taking the burden off the workers, yet keeping the ministry informed. What’s wrong with that? They are moving forward and they will refine the process as they go. Good on them!
Likewise disappointed in its removal. Such an expedient, efficient protocol for giving the victim support and removing the predator. Would love to see this in action, everywhere.
It is a real shame that the Saint Louis Elder CSA/SA Protocol was taken down. If it was such a good document, it could have been used by every elder in the USA and Canada and maybe the whole world. After all, CSA/SA is a huge problem in the group the world over.
Max, this document is still posted on the CCF platform.
Shane – thank you – that is very good news. Hoping that Craig Winquest in Missouri can take this document to all of the other overseers throughout the land and maybe the world and have those guys distribute it to each and every one of THEIR elders. That way, all meetings will have power to ride themselves of CSA/SA peds. The numbers in the group many decline greatly due this effort, but it will be worth it in order to free the group of all bad people once and for all.
As a CSA survivor who’s been quiet for decades, this approach is welcome and I would strongly support a cascade to all areas. This becomes a “fail safe” approach as only a few states have publicly stated zero tolerance for CSA/SA and are effectively communicating to all when an abuser is identified.
I’m very grateful that the workers in our state are engaged, listening, and effectively communicating. Believe that all that have love for God’s people (including those of us who have been broken) would welcome this approach.
Hat’s off to the caring elders, wives, and workers in St. Louis area – thank you!
Anonymous, you missed my point entirely! I am all for getting pervs and sex offenders, child molesters, spiritual offenders and liars. What I do not agree with is secret agendas and keeping things hidden. Why put a bushel over what you’re doing if it has no agenda? Are you trying to keep the antics of bad people from being made public on a legitimate website such as this? That is what it appears. Exposure it all from a hill top and let it be known, and the perpetrator needs to have a bright light shined on them, and persecuted to the fullest extent possible. If what you doing it so good, then post it so it can be emulate everywhere! My daughter was assaulted by workers (yes, more than one) and the involved workers wanted it hidden, brushed under the rug, put under a bushel and for the deeds not exposed. This has been the standard rule in this religion way too long. Anonymous do not hide what you are doing if it is truthful right. Spread it far and wide! What you said, “This was not intended to be shared on a public forum and it would be appreciated if it was removed”, sounds like you are doing something wrong.
Reply
I’m disappointed that you didn’t see fit to include any regular members who may have wanted to have input. This is what the overseers have always done..excluded us little people. Most of what you said is ok. In several cases it’s been elders who have been the abusers so it’s impossible to believe the victim is going to talk with another elder especially since only elders and their wives have been deemed the only ones to speak to. Again, I encourage you to include any who wishes to be part of the decision making process as I can assure you victims have a unique insight into the issues.
Very true. If parents, victims and/or professionals are left out of the process, there will be gaps. Guaranteed. Even better, make the process as public as possible….that way there will be some wise counsel arise from it.
WINGS examines policies for gaps but can’t help if the process is done in secret.
Your comments make sense to me, Bill. It’s easy for the elders as a group to be seen as part of the problem, and I’m an elder who doesn’t mind saying this. I think TX/NM is leading the way on this.
We shall see as my wife and I are going to attend the White Rock NM 6pm session this evening. It’s a 100 mile one way trip so I do hope enough time is allowed for all issues. I’ve not seen any comments from the session held in Albuquerque Saturday at 4pm.
The elders are most definitely part of the problem. The elder and his wife in our area ran cover for the workers that abused my daughter. It was truly shameful. At the time I was unaware of the elders involvement. Anonymous sounds like a typical “church leader” who is not willing to discuss difficult topics. Anonymous wants his way and if others question anything, they can take the highway. Sounds like a “boss” to me! Head workers are stamped out of the same mold. Even though they have two ears, they would rather talk out of their one mouth.
I can’t speak about St. Louis elders but in general, elders are a big part of the problem. There numerous reasons but one reason stands out: wherever there are multiple candidates for a meeting host job, it goes to the person who is the most compliant to the direction of the workers. From a political POV, it is standard tool for perpetuating the status quo. From a virtue POV, it is a terrible policy. I know a few elders who put their integrity first but the vast majority give their integrity to the workers.
It’s the people’s church, all should be involved.
Less hierarchy the better.
The Elder may not be the one with the most wisdom.
Remember, God looks to the one with a broken Spirit and a contrite heart.
Jesus spoke of the least seeing to a matter, no doubt to avoid all this control.
Great is the person who doesn’t allow authority to go to his head’, there won’t be many, hence the whole church should be involved.
Paul, thanks for writing. The elders are most definitely part of the problem. The elder and his wife in our area ran cover for the workers that abused my daughter. It was truly shameful. At the time I was unaware of the elders involvement. Anonymous sounds like a typical “church leader” who is not willing to discuss difficult topics. Anonymous wants his way and if others question anything, they can take the highway. Sounds like a “boss” to me! Head workers are stamped out of the same mold. Even though they have two ears, they would rather talk out of their one mouth.
I’m glad to hear your thoughts on this. I’m supposed to esteem the workers very highly in love for their work’s sake, the Bible tells me, but to worship them or just subordinate my judgment to them, is idolatry. If you ever come through Central Oregon, please come to our meeting. We’ll give you a warm welcome, and there’s always lots of bread. Paul
Paul you are a very decent man with a reasonable, measured tone. You would be in the court for the abused and an advocate. I appreciate that you are using your eyes to really see, your ears to listen and your mouth to not slam others, but to speak kindness and wisdom. Paul, you are unusual, which is unfortunate. You are your own man guided by God. Thank you.