Dear all,
First and foremost, I want to warn every reader of the contents of this letter. The topic of child sexual abuse and sexual abuse, hereafter referred to as CSA and SA respectfully, will be covered. I feel that these topics are too important to ignore, however if you do not have the mental space for this right now, take a moment and look after yourself. Come back if you feel up to it at a later point, otherwise delete it.
I did not want to write this letter. I hoped that there would be no need for such a situation, however through the actions of the overseer, Craig Fulton, I feel that there is no other option. On 18/06/2023 at 20:39, I sent the following text to Craig Fulton.
Dear Craig,
It has come to my attention that several serious issues are being ignored in Ireland within the truth. The most serious of these are your dealings with cases of sexual abuse and child sexual abuse.
As you will be aware, under the Children First Act 2015, you are a mandated reporter under section 2 and Schedule 2 paragraph 15(g): “member of the clergy (howsoever described) or pastoral care worker (howsoever described) of a church or other religious community”
The responsibility of a mandated reporter is as such:
“Mandated persons have two main legal obligations under the Children First Act 2015:
To report harm of children, above a defined threshold, to Tusla;
To assist Tusla, if requested, in assessing a concern which has been the subject of a mandated report.”
In Northern Ireland, under the Criminal Law Act 1967,
“Where a person has committed [a relevant offence], any other person who, knowing or believing him to be guilty of the offence or of some [other relevant offence], does without lawful authority or reasonable excuse any act with intent to impede his apprehension or prosecution, shall be guilty of an offence.”
The law is clear. You are legally obliged to assist the law in the protection of children. This means that the moment that you hear a report of child sexual abuse, whether you believe it to be true or not, you must report it to the authorities. That I have to spell this out to you disappoints me, however you have clearly shown that you feel that the law can be ignored. Therefore, if I do not hear of reasonable evidence that you have fulfilled your legal obligations within one (1) week, I will share this message al and the context behind it with the internet, with as many friends in Ireland as possible and with as many who have left as possible. This is not an empty threat. I will do this.
Yours sincerely,
LM and JV.
The week is now up. Craig has unfortunately not provided reasonable evidence that he has reported known evidence to the appropriate authorities, nor have I heard reports of his actions in attempting the aforementioned task. I will therefore be true to my word and give the context of this message to you.
To the best of my knowledge, Craig Fulton, having received from an alleged perpetrator a spoken declaration of guilt, declined to give a statement to the local authorities about said evidence and has allowed the alleged perpetrator to attend local missions and bible studies.
Having heard of a further alleged perpetrator, Craig did not fulfil his responsibility as a mandated reporter to bring this to local authorities. This alleged perpetrator has had no consequences and is still allowed to attend all gatherings.
When John Johnston was removed from the work due to at least two allegations of abuse, there was no communication surrounding the reasons why this happened. This has meant that some people supporting John may have been put at risk through a lack of open and honest communication from those in responsible positions. John is also, as an alleged perpetrator, still permitted to attend all gatherings.
John Gunn, accused of allegations of abuse in Spain and Chile, was turned away from Carrick convention last week when some friends heard of the allegations from those close to a victim and approached Craig to request that he not be allowed to attend the convention. Craig agreed, being in the presence of 5 other individuals and John Gunn was turned away. No communication surrounding his absences was provided during the rest of the convention. Further sources determined that there were plans to send John Gunn to Chile for special meetings earlier in the year, however those in Chile refused to allow John Gunn back. It is therefore likely that Craig has known about this situation for an extended period of time.
In general, Craig and other workers on the Island of Ireland have been allowing alleged perpetrators to continue their lives with little to no consequence. When alleged perpetrators have been discovered, there has been little to no communication surrounding the issues, at the most, the individual has just been removed without further comment. This is unacceptable. Hiding those accused of CSA and SA, is allowing those individuals to have access to the vulnerable, creating the potential for more abuse.
Yours sincerely,
LM and JV
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Couple of points:
1. I think there are two unnamed individuals in this letter. Please can we clarify are the unnamed individuals in the work or in which area? – important for parents.
2. I think we need to be clear on John Gunn and John Johnston on whether the allegations are child abuse or adult abuse? – given the home to home contact.
Any help appreciated
John J was child abuse in his field in Northern Ireland
So was this recent ?
So JJ was likely returned from Romania for CSA, nobody was told and then he committed CSA in Ireland and then put out of the work but then against nobody was told?
And what is Craig Fulton email? We need to fill his inbox with our concerns and disappointments.
Ray
Just to be clear Ray, before you jump the gun on this one.
1. I suspect Craig isn’t a mandatory reporter, as I suspect these are all historic allegations and probably took place overseas (Romania, Chile, Spain). Therefore it is up to the victim to report the crime if they are no longer a child, only if the victim is still a child does Craig become a mandatory reporter.
2. If these are recent cases and Craig has indeed not reported after being informed, then it is an issue.
3. It is not clear from the letter if the allegations are SA or CSA, this is extremely unfair as the impact on someone being falsely accused of CSA is significant, if these accusations are being made and spread so far then that needs to be clear.
I think Leah and Jorrit need to clarify these points immediately.
The bigger issue is the lack of transparency around the allegations, which means unsuspecting persons will have had close contact without being aware of the risk. This is the item to bring to his mailbox.
Just to clarify if CSA has occurred when the victim was a child and is disclosed, it is important to report this to the authorities as the person is still at risk to other children
crgfltn1@gmail.com
John J was removed from the work approximately two years ago.
Norman Nash from Ireland is a predator and committed a CRIME of CSA in South America . He is a ex worker of evil .
He was “working ” in Ecuador and Peru for many years.
Does he is reported to the authorities ?
Does he is in jail ? If not ,
Does he is going to turn himself to the authorities for what he did ?
Donald Reynolds was the overseer in Peru and Leroy Lerwick was the overseer in Ecuador at that time , do they knew about Norman Nash ?
Donald Reynolds knew about Americo Quispe and his brother Alfonso Quispe both ex workers in Peru that SEXUAL ABUSE MANY CHILDREN .
Americo was sended to USA despite what he did and he continued doing his evil work and abuse another child in USA then he return to Peru and now he is in jail .
Where is Alfonso ?
Where is Norman Nash ?
To be very clear, these allegations against NN were not clearly known in Ireland. Allegations were made against NN, (adult allegations) and he was immediately put out of the work.
If you are stating these allegations against children, then what have you done to inform the authorities?
In Don Reynolds recent letter he said he has done no bad thing for the last 40 years regarding CSA. Per Justice, this is apparently not true. Providing cover for CSA offenders is the same as doing it yourself. The CSA/SA issue is a worldwide 2×2 spider web.
Me thinks Craig has skeletons in his own closet!
Unhelpful speculation and extremely disheartening that these types of comments are allowed….
We haven’t yet been told which allegations are CSA and SA related
I realize that Child sexual abuse is different from adult abuse but, is it ok to rape a woman?
Should it not all be brought out in the open?
Morally, should it not be reported even if not legally required.
Are we saying it’s ok if it’s an adult?
Really, I don’t go for this, we didn’t realize, we are now better informed.
Let’s face it, the Holy Spirit would have told you to put out the sinner.
You just didn’t listen.
WHY?
Really sexual abuse, and child sexual abuse ,are sexual abuse.period. While one may be more horrific than the other( sometimes) neither has no place in the fellowship or ministry.
The fact that you are not a mandatory reporter according to the law, should not relieve you of your moral obligation to do all possible to inform others, and rectify the situation in as much as possible,( removal from all necessary gatherings etc)
Those allegations againts Norman Nash were not clearly known in Ireland yes until now because was swept under the filthy rug and cover up for many years while he was in SOUTH AMERICA .
I am writing this for people to know that he abuse CHILDREN while he worked in South America.
Thank you – but when you say they are known now, who knows?
These men would not allow people who are divorced and remarried even attend a gospel mtg because there is no hope for them, they threatened parents and told them they would take their Sunday mtg if they spoke to or had anything to do with their children who the workers deemed were sinners, asking couples in Romania to split because they were remarried and the workers didn’t know until that point. The list goes on. I knew they were evil and that is why they were cruel and covering up for their sins. Unreasonable and ungodly behaviour is a big red flag.
Leah & Jorrit, as an onlooker from outside Ireland THANK YOU for being a voice for those whom the overseers and their worker-worshipper supporters have silenced in the past. And a voice for those who Craig and his minions continue to silence. It defies belief that they think God would condone their actions in protecting the perpetrators and shaming the victims. Power and position have definitely gone to your head Craig.
SHAME on you Ireland and SHAME on you Craig Fulton.
A big thanks to Leah and Jorrit for highlighting this as those in charge are only interested in keeping it quiet Very little concern for the abused while the abuser gets away with it
Unfortunately, decades of dishonesty and cover ups is why the church is in this current mess worldwide. It has been going on, largely unchallenged, since the days of William Irvine. The ‘Truth’ has been a pretty safe harbour for predators and perpetrators of abuse as they have rarely had to face the justice they deserve. As already mentioned in one of the comments above, abusers are often treated with more care and compassion than victims of abuse. Victims have been bullied and their life-long trauma has been ignored and belittled. Anyone who acts as an advocate for a victim or calls out bad behaviour is often treated with similar contempt.
Great importance has been placed on meeting attendance, women’s clothing, wedding rules, TV’s, sport, ‘Letting the World into one’s Home’ and many other trivial issues. It’s just a pity that the same level of enthusiasm has not been applied to keeping the Ministry clean. You could say it is typical ‘straining at gnats and swallowing camels’ behaviour.
Eccl Ch 3 V1 There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens; v7 A time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak. This is the time for Overseers to mend and make amends. It is also the time for speaking. To the friends: please be the change that you want to see. Speak up, ask for accountability, push hard for change; you can be certain it will not happen otherwise. Please make those in charge, and those who ignore abuse, accountable for their actions and their inaction. Please be careful when you have male workers in your home. SPEAK UP if you are not happy with who is inviting themselves into your home. Not everyone is trustworthy and broken trust is one of the hardest things to repair.
Nobody expects perfection; but surely it’s not too much to ask to have honest, upright and transparent overseers and deputy overseers that are willing to live by the words of Jesus. John 13 v 34 & 35 “ A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another’. Real genuine love has often seemed to be absent, and as a result, dishonesty, disrespect and other toxic behaviours have flourished.
Astounded
To Have some real change:
It just hit me. As we had the “privilege of “Workers”!; we would help “get in their bags” show them their room, and often with just a mechanical greeting; they stayed there. We all who were so eager, had that let down feeling. My point is THEY were not even able to put on their “company manners”. They showed no love or joy to see us. Yes, a few did, but it was the exception.
They were living a lie: continually. So why are we now surprised by HOW BIG the lie IS? We contributed to this culture.
AND none of the ministry should have ever believed “the only-one-true way”! AND we are not free of guilt. We did NOT know God’s WORD.
Matthew 4:13 has a well hidden secrete. Jesus dwelt(to house permanently) in Capernaum.
John 1:35-:39 Where dwellest (thine own)thou.
We will make this short about the 12 Homeless and only use one verse.
John 19:25 oops; also 20:10 OWN HOME! (Jesus knew they had their own home.)
OUR heart weeps for the deep abuse caused to each and every soul who continue to have THIS ABUSE inflicted upon them: because of a living lie.
When Jesus came; it was to bring THAT nation of Israel back to God so they could DO Exodus 19:5-:6. They would NOT! After Acts 6: and 7:; God withdrew his Gospel of their promised and covenanted Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
Romans 11:1-2, – :7-:11 explains prophecy has happened. :12- ; :13
:25 explains: it is only only until :: Ephesians 3:1-9 to the Gentiles is complete
:26 – :27 God will fulfill his promises and covenants to that Nation
Please, each one of you: be honest and read our Bible as written.
And we pray God give to you understanding; as you learn the
“BUT NOW” of Romans 3:21 and God’s Gospel of the Grace of God.
Thank You to “Let’s Have Some Real Change”
Why have the authors names been removed?
The overseer in Ireland he knows about Norman Nash .
Since when?
This is important to us.
The overseer in Ireland needs to act on what he knows its a disgrace whats now seems to be acceptable
Since april – may 2023
Is NN one of the 2 individuals not named in Leah and Jorrits letter?
I wonder is JJ and NN attending northern conventions this weekend I sincerely hope not
N.N. was at Antrim yesterday and was we were told he never showed up today.
Maybe he was sent away.
It has been said NN was at Down Convention today, Sunday, and spoke
IF this right what is going on who is tricking who Someone needs to deal with the NN situation if the overseer wont
How do you verify the accusations? Are the accusers names?
I know one particular man in Ireland is raging at NN and honestly I wouldn’t put it past him to make it up.
I’m not saying victims shouldn’t be believed, but in this case I think the Victim needs to be identified and not a nameless person on the internet.
I understand that it is a part of our professing culture to distrust victims, but we need to be mindful that this is one of the reasons we are in this current mess. It is the very reason there are so many hurt, wounded and discouraged souls. If this person is raging as you say against NN, please LISTEN! Better ye, reach out, show some love and compassion, like Jesus would.
Indeed. If someone seems to be raging at another, there’s always something behind it. More to the story that you are unaware of.
Maybe reach out in love and kindness and pray for them. You don’t have to know their name, God knows who you mean.
Yes, I’m taking my own advice…I am so very angry at someone right now, not because I am filled with hatred, but rather, because he’s feigning innocence, when he’s repeatedly been given solid advice and information about this whole issue, and refuses to accept it, and he’s clearly not praying and seeking God’s help with it all (and yes, I can deduce that, because of the truly damaging and horrible decisions he’s continuing to make).
There’s workers back east and across Canada who are too…I wonder if they realize that they are putting their eternity in satans hands?
TG tried to deal with the NN situation, I witnessed him being surrounded by a host of NN loyalists. The blame hear lies equally with quite a number of the friends who supported NN including some high profile ex friend from Sweden…
He obviously fooled many, if the allegations are true.
Word today from Antrim.
Norman Nash was at Antrim today and spoke there.
Also was see walking with Craig F. in the meeting hall after Craig Fulton had spoke in the evening meeting.
The allegations againts Norman Nash
is TRUE . He is lying absolutely disgusting that he is lying about CSA .
Craig you know this situation .
Why you didn’t warning the friends about NN ?
You knew this since April / May 2023
Is there no forgiveness then for this? Imagine it was a 30 year ago one time regret that comes to light. Are they now hopeless forever?
According to the internet saints, if you hug a 15 year old inappropriately (too tightly) 50 years ago as a 20 year old man, you are forever doomed to being completely hated and sit in the same box as serial abusers of the most extreme variety.
In a court of Law there isnt varying levels of CSA, you either committed CSA or you didnt. If you are a 20yr old adult hugging a 15yr old child too tightly with or without their appoval then yes that’s a problem. Has this behavior been repeated over the years or progressed? Thats the problem that we’re seeing in most cases. The narrative from other workers and freinds is that, ‘Oh this was jiust a one time situation’ Tbis is hardly ever the case. Furhermore NO ONE took a gun and held it to anyone”s head to become a celibate male worker. If you made that decision, then stick by it, or get the hell out. If you remain, then its because you’re a predator, its that simple.
‘OK’ that is between the offender/perpetrator and God as to whether it is “hopeless forever” or not. We cannot judge the sincerity of remorse/repentance in another. A “one time regret that comes to light” could have left lifelong trauma for the victim and yet in your eyes it is trivial? After all it was just once. Are you for real? As with ‘NO JUSTICE’ you’ve obviously been blessed with being among the minority in our church who have never had someone you loved sexually abused.
And your comment “that comes to light” speaks volumes. If there was true repentance, it would have come to light 30 years ago. Or anytime over the last 30 years. Not cover it up until the victim finally speaks up. And then want immediate forgiveness from the victim and family. Because after all (as you say) it was only once. Judas only sold Jesus out once too.
No one is saying they are hopeless forever. What concerned folkks and professionals have been stressing is that SA and especially CSA is not curable and these folks should not be placed in a position of tempratiion. You surrly wouldnt take your recovering alcoholic freind to a bar now right? Whether its 1month, 1 year or 10 years, there is always the chance that one night at the bar might be a trigger. Same thing applies here. Its also a trigger for other victims present, a sheep will never be calm and at peace in the presence of a nown wolf. Someone truly repentant and with integrity would understand and appreciate that.
Yes, there’s forgiveness, after repentance. What does repentance look like for a sexual child abuser? They would willingly turn themselves in to the local authorities, admit to every victim, admit to what they did, and accept the consequences, which would include not putting themselves in a position to be tempted again (no where that children could possibly be present), they would accept therapy, spiritual guidance from ministers, and castration. And, accept that this process takes Decades, and although their urges may become less, they will NEVER be safe around children again in their lives. So, to show they want a relationship with God, they can do like Jesus said. Repent, Be honest, and Be accepting of and thankful that once they are caught that they have the opportunity to start over…once. Humility will be the fruit of their desire to be right with God.
henoffour, everything you said to completely correct, my thoughtsexactly. thank you
Mr. / Mrs OK : this is my answer to you :
IT’S NOT OK to abuse children as Norman Nash did . Norman Nash committed a CRIME against a child maybe more .
I personally know 2 victims one child and the other one teenager at that time .
This is not a simple HUG . For your information. You don’t know this case then why you comment like this ?
I speak up for our friends in Ireland to keep your children safe .
Norman Nash you are LYING and for the rest of your life here in heart you won’t have peace and what you did against the victim in South America.
Surprised that WINGS allow this… alleged, alleged, alleged.
Question. Are you ok with having an alleged child molester babysit your child and are you only concerned about convicted child molesters?
To Watchman
Anyone can make an anonymous allegation online. Reveal your name and I will show you.
I would be very careful who I allowed to look after my child, including family members (considering abuse is usually a family member).
Watchman, you are so right, thank you.
@Alleged I think every incident should be reported. But, not all police can take allegations and do anything with them, if they don’t have laws on their books that will accommodate such (for example, some countries are too poor to pay for criminals to remain in prison. Some crimes that are being reported now were reported to workers previously and they were told to “be quiet”, so now that the victims know there are NOT going to Hell for reporting they are coming forward…but, too many years have passed – that doesn’t mean it’s not true. That also doesn’t mean that the perpetrator can’t admit to the crime (which they should do if there’s any shred of honesty within them). Just like if your state/country law doesn’t require reporting of sickening behaviour…we are supposed to be living above the standard of any law set! The only way we can do that is to have the Spirit of God dwelling within us…which not a one of these perpetrators has!
We know Norman Nash did attend conventions this year and took part in at least two
Did John Johnson attend convention/s this year and if so did he take part
John was not at Antrim or Fermanagh
Please , someone help me with Craig F email ? Thank you
Craig’s e-mail was posted on June 30th by sad in the emerald isle.
Worker’s Meetings Over
Herbie Jennings gone home
Why? Resigned? Fired?
Gone home not surprised time the overseer in Ireland explains why
Possible, Herbie going is in response to an event where a husband wrote on the mission hall exterior in paint regarding Herbie and the man’s wife.
This event took place a few years back in Fermanagh at the Ballyreagh Hall. Herbie was evacuated to the republic of Ireland. He may have had time off then went out as a junior worker again…last few years he was senior worker in County Armagh.
Maybe this action is partly to deflect from the fact they just last week had a big workers gathering at Carrick of about 100 workers and on our €€€ and nothing said to us who paid the costs! Treat us shamefully, use our homes never study the word with us, never lift a finger to help in the home, live on the platform we lifted em to. Make us spend € to go to too many missions a week keeping the childers out late . Enough said for now.
What a bizzare suggestion – you can sure tell you are from Ireland when you are obsessed with money. Are you worried you won’t get your next flashy Merc in time for convention? The cost of putting up 100 workers will probably have been pretty low and the event was much much needed. I am sure some of the wealthy elders will have funded it without a blink. If you can’t afford to cover the workers costs in addition to your car payments, nobody is forcing you too.
Your biggest concern should be the lack of comms on the agenda, the outcome of the meeting and clarification on anyone who has been sent home, not some petty concern about money.
I aggree…was just a digression on my part
If Herbie was sent home a few years ago why was he taken back out the overseer needs to answer this
I would suggest if he had an affair, it isn’t deemed “bad enough” to kick him out. So they let him back.. Desperation for Male workers seems to be the driving force for allowing some “discretions” – in the past this included children, but now given the uproar this is less likely.
I have heard rumours about Herbie before.
I believe Herbie Jennings was SENT not Went home
Are we sure the reason is because of the “painting on Mission Hall wall”
Maybe it is not for that reason as that may be only A instance to be considered
One doesn’t be send home for a one of non-criminal offence
Why is everything being kept so secretive
HJ Sent Home Why
JJ Sent Home Why
More to Follow ????
How many (not if any) will be banned from meetings due to CSA etc
Not even those guilty of cover up that should be banned to
“Why is everything being kept so secret?” Because that is how they operate; it has never been any different and it’s highly unlikely to change unfortunately. A few lies here, and a good dash of dishonesty there, has always been seen as a small price to pay to keep the perfect veneer on the fellowship. Sad but true. Closing our homes and our wallets may be the only actions that might eventually get the message across.
This is exactly what needs to be done. People need to wake up and realize that if the fear of God cannot move them nothing else will.
In any organisation it’s only correct that transparency should be evident.
Transparency to the reason why workers are coming home to Ireland with CSA issues. Rather than being moved home to home.
Transparency should be given to everyone following workers meetings. We should be allowed to attend these meetings and express our concerns and what is being done with regards to child protection. Are all workers garda vetted? Are reports all being reported in the correct way to the authorities?
Transparency given to to parents to know why ex workers are attending am meetings or any meetings where there are children present or there is alleged CSA.
These people are out of the work because of genuine concerns of victims. What is being done to protect the victims? What lessons have been learned in the history of child abuse is Ireland? Nil. In all major cover ups in the catholic Church, the alleged perpetrators were moved from one area to another with no transparency as to why they were being moved. The same is happening in this fellowship. The final straw will come when the media will explode similar to the catholic churches and the 2x 2 ministry will be exposed. Some serious questions will have to be answered. There will be major hurt as to why cover ups have been allowed to continue and why people were so silent.
The same scenario applies for alleged perpetrators attending a gospel meeting.
We have a right to protect our children.
The workers are treated as apostles, where salvation can only be gotten from them. And yet there is rampant sexual abuse from workers being revealed, no transparency from leadership, and absolutely no accountability. An apostle as defined strictly by the New Testament, no longer exists today, since these three conditions had to be met: The person had to have been an eyewitness to Jesus after his resurrection (1 Corinthians 9:1); had to have been chosen by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:15); and had to have ministered with miraculous signs and wonders (Acts 2:43; 2 Corinthians 12:12). It’s easy to understand that people would want power that an apostle had, for the wrong reasons, but it is time that others are no longer exploited by these people. Tolerance has to stop. For the sake of children, if nothing else.
I believe H J was up to no good 40 years ago , putting himself in the way of young girls. How many victims has he damaged in that length of time.
I’m appalled by all of this coming out now. Why has it taken so long for all these crimes/ abuse of power to be exposed.
I hope the youth of today can see through this abusing cult and give it a big miss.
A lot of people appalled it took so long because any alleged abuse is covered up should have been sent home years ago
I believe the “cover up” is by the group itself, not just by the workers. With the exception of Robert Kee, very few have been brave or courageous enough to speak up. Robert is one of the only ones I can think of among the thousands and thousands connected to the fellowship who spoke up, if he hadn’t there could have been alot more.
NO MORE COMMENT FROM LEAH AND JORRIT WONDER WERE THEY SILENCED BY THE POWERS TO BE
@Courage – a few have spoken up recently but they have been treated disgracefully as a result and that is a deterrent in itself. The message from the top seems to be ‘keep quiet or we could make life very difficult for you’.
Does anyone trust God anymore? Why are they afraid of overseers when GOD is on their side. Or is He?
This really is a nightmare, and it’s not going to end until we wake up.
The message is KEEP QUIET because if every woman or man in the friends and workers were to be honest if they had a friendship/relationship with a worker the can of worms would open
@No Confidence and Blackbear: I DO trust God, and He’s ALL that matters. People are so worried about what the workers think about different subjects. If any worker isn’t following and teaching what Jesus said, then they are not ones to be trusted. We don’t follow the workers, but I do know some who do…why would you follow another human? Jesus was the only human who didn’t fail, everyone else does.
@Alleged: False reporting is perhaps 5% of the reports, so 95% of adult reporting IS true, and 98% of children reporting are found to be true.
With regards to the years of Noel Tanner’s CSA, to the best of my knowledge RK was the only professing person that went to the authorities
A number of other cases were brought to senior workers’ attention and it was not dealt with
Elders lodged their complaints with workers and it wasn’t dealt with
NOW TODAY
Is history repeating itself
Is Craig sitting on his hands hoping all the CSA and SA will vanish.
Does he feel not ensuring natural protection to the Lambs is a sign that spiritual protection is available here
We are not vigilantes but there are things that are Out Out Out with God and His People
RK is nothing less than a courageous hero. He was the first to publicly disclose in the 1990’s the abuse he suffered from worker Tanner. I personally know RK and he is an awesome, high integrity human being.
Here we are 30 years later and the Friends and Workers are still not fully grasping the depravity that has gone on for a long time under the cloak of righteousness. My late aunt was abused by a celebrated worker nearly a century ago. This is nothing new. This has to get fixed or shut down. There is no middle ground, which is what we keep hearing from the leadership.
Well all await Craig’s return as he cannot neglect his responsibility any longer
Please Tell The Truth
You preach we must be honest
So be honest and tell us why the said workers have gone home
Tell us have they been told to not attend any meetings whatsoever
If not Why not
What is being done about other cases in the meetings that have been brought to your attention
Why are you standing over instead of speaking out and taking action
Enough has happened Shame has been brought on what you call God’s People
Is this Shame to be seen as acceptable in your eyes
If not Prove It
If more
I agree with the above post I notice you say whats called Gods people I heard it said no people like gods people this is true in a bad way amonst friends and workers in the main Love is how we know Gods people it is pretty shredded at present
Budgie…don’t hold your breath with regards to honesty. Apparently during the recent workers meeting the overseers were asked ‘’What do we tell the friends if they ask us about the two workers that have been recently removed?” The answer was along the lines of ‘tell them they resigned voluntarily”. What’s a few more lies in the long list of lies? A more dishonest bunch would be hard to find. I should add that there are still a few honest workers who are completely disgusted by the current situation.
I’m puzzled as to why you two are only reporting to the internet? The FIRST call that should be made is to the police and report exactly what YOU know. Just because a LAW doesn’t make you a mandatory reporter doesn’t mean that you SHOULD report. We are to exceed the Saduccees and the Pharasees in righteousness!! This should be done around the world! Only then will overseers wake up out of fear of going to jail! They don’t seem to be capable of grasping the danger of allowing a predator to be present anywhere, puts EVERYONE else in danger. If your Elders are allowing them to be present when children are present…call the police and report that they KNOWINGLY and WITH INTENT are complicit. I attend meetings, and love the way that Jesus taught, but what is happening around the world is NOT acceptable in God’s eyes…and certainly should not be named amongst His people, even once!
My husband and I recently attended a meeting at the Olympia grounds, both spoke. Afterwards, most of the staff came and thanked us, because we had the courage to say what they wanted to but couldn’t. These overseers are going to have soooo much to answer for. Throwing people out of the ministry because they disagreed over a vaccine? (which the workers have no business sticking their noses in our medical decisions), Or an off teaching of scripture? Which can generally be righted within a fairly short time with GENTLE guidance…and then allowing the most evil amongst the world to attend…just sickening!
*SHOULDN’T
Yes, Craig Fulton is back. Back with a vengeance!
His gospel meeting is ready to recommence and there will be two CSA perpetrators in attendance. Craig has communicated to some of the congregation that these men will be there and if they are not comfortable to come and bring their children, then they are free to stay away.
So, ‘Feed my lambs, feed my sheep’, IF the lambs and the sheep are crazy enough to sit down with the wolves.
Ireland, the land of saints, scholars and sexual predators. Céad mile filter, everyone is welcome!
This is reprehensible but unfortunately not surprising knowing what we know about the Irish leadership. Is this gospel meeting in the area that Craig is due to be in as per the 2023/2024 list?
Craig obviously has his own things to cover up. He ex-communicated or attempted too excommunicate a woman for marrying someone who had previously been in a relationship. Imagine and then welcoming those with CSA to their name.
Which area is he in?
If the above is true about CSA, he is evil.
Please everyone send your emails to crgfltn@gmail.com
I don’t know who this person is, but can you give me some information about him and is he laboring in Ireland or coming to the USA?
Ps. IF YOU ATTEND, and anyone is harmed…and you KNEW he had an issue YOU can also be charged! Tell them Craig sent him to your community and the public is unaware!
This is not good enough and unacceptable have TUSLA been informed of this and how this group is not protecting children and how Craig Fulton is dealing with these issues its time the Elders in this group let him know its not how you treat such a serious issue
So Craig is back
Is he starting his mission in a public hall or at one of the proffessing homes/outhouses
I take it he is in Tipperary with Tim
Do we know who the CSA Perpetrators are
Have either been reported to the Garda
It is time Craig jumped down off his pedestal
Stopped esteeming himself above what is right
Has the love of his position gone to his head and bypassed his heart
Yes, mission will be in a public place. Both perpetrators are currently under investigation with the authorities.
Report this to the Sheriff, and let Craig know you are turning him in for knowingly, and with intent to provide new victims to known pedophiles and rapists.
Here’s a link that may be of interest to you.
I read it, and although there are many inaccuracies, it all boils down to people blindly listening and following any other human being and their opinions. I personally do not care “how this was started”, because my faith is in God, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that He is able to raise up any man/women to bring his doctrine to any people, whether they attended meetings or not. I dare anyone to find any religion/doctrine that’s closer to what Jesus taught, than this group. It doesn’t exist. I’m not saying people anywhere else aren’t going to Heaven (because I’m not judging that), I just want to have fellowship with people who are seeking to do ALL of what Jesus taught…while being kind and showing the Love of God to ALL people. I have attended dozens and dozens of denominational and non-denominational groups, and have never seen the Spirit of God working in any of them – although I was desperately looking for it!
These people who follow Jesus (whatever you want to call them: 2&2, Black Stocking Crowd, The Way, The Truth, etc) are not perfect! If they were, that would mean God is finished His work in them and He’d have called them to rest! Unfortunately, this whole CSA/SA thing was allowed to spread like wildfire because people were threatened they would go to Hell (or be excommunicated) if they took this crime to the “unjust judge”. Which is not scriptural…we are to follow the laws of our lands, and live ABOVE the standard of it! So, call the authorities and give them information that will cleanse this group (honesty). Report those that knew/know and are doing nothing about it, because that’s scriptural too. That means Elders, ministers, overseers, people of the congregation, etc. If you are punished for doing so…remember, they punished Jesus for being honest too!
Henoffour, “I dare anyone to find any religion/doctrine that’s closer to what Jesus taught, than this group”. Then you note, “Black Stocking Crowd, The Way, The Truth, etc) are not perfect! ….this whole CSA/SA thing was allowed to spread like wildfire because people were threatened they would go to Hell (or be excommunicated) if they took this crime to the “unjust judge”.” The black stockings, dress, buns and worker worship is nothing close to what Jesus taught. Being afraid of a worker/ human, so a sex crime is not reported? That was and is common. Works and being afraid of man is not what Jesus taught. “I have attended dozens and dozens of denominational and non-denominational groups, and have never seen the Spirit of God working in any of them”. That is most unfortunate. I personally have been blessed and feel the amazing Spirit of God every Sunday. I am very happy and thankful to no longer be tied to what man thinks important, and instead to serve Christ. To have confidence in Christ is a blessing.
Just because SOME are behaving as criminals, doesn’t mean we all are. It’s also unfortunate that SOME have acted like we have a dress code. The only instruction Jesus gave was that we women be modest, and not adorn ourselves with things that would bring attention to ourselves, and that our hair be used as a covering for our heads as we pray. I just recieved a letter from a friend, who attached pictures of the workers in India…the women ALL are wearing a saree, the lehenga choli, and the salwar kameez (what we call pants with a tunic type top). I’m currently sitting here in my britches, with a tunic…and my hair is pulled back in a clip, with the majority of it covering my back. I’m not dressing this way to make a statement, or to draw attention to myself, just to be modest and hoping others see Christ in me, not me. Beware the “professing look” I’ve heard more than once from the platform!
@Henoffour, thank you very much for all your efforts and communication on this topic. Because this gender focus is so relevant to sexual abuse, I want to repeat here some points I made in response to another recent comment from you:
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When we’re considering how to prevent sexual abuse of children and other vulnerable people, we should notice how human-created sexism, misogyny and bias shape a group culture where abuse can occur, and also shape some of the thinking expressed in posts here.
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Re: your comment just above, we don’t have any record of Jesus himself commenting on grooming or dress, nor of his treating or advising anyone differently on the basis of gender. Even Paul acknowledges, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal 3:28, King James version)
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We can’t rightly say that gender-based hair style or dress is an instruction from Jesus’ teachings. The passages you allude to are from a couple epistles (letters) written by apostles, but aren’t found in any of the words and teachings of Jesus that we have record of in the Bible.
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Mistaken human thinking about gender has put too many people, female and male, in bondage, and has helped create conditions for abuse to take place.
Thank you for catching that, It’s not actually not recorded that Jesus said it, but HIS apostles did, so I have faith to believe that it’s because HE taught them that standard. Jesus knew his time was short, and focused on the things that were very important to God. I definitely agree on the opportunity it creates for abuse. I have been on the wrong end of that more times than I can count!!
My point was more, we want people to see Christ when they look at us, and not what we have on, because serving God has nothing to do with anyone’s clothing (unless we are trying to draw attention to ourselves). Men wear skirts and long dresses (they are called Kilts or thobes) in other parts of the world, so our perception here in America that women can only wear dresses/skirts and men can only wear pants is very off base. However, I also feel that out of respect for each countries “traditional” dress code, it’s nice to just fit in, so we don’t cause offence. America and Canada are kind of a melting pot of ethic traditions, so it’s not as “strange” or “weird” when we see people wearing their traditional clothing from their homecountry, or our natives wearing their Indian regalia, but traditionally, American women have worn dresses to “black-tie” events and men a tux or suit. So, because there’s no event greater than when we are meeting with God and His Son on Sunday morning, I dress accordingly…in my best.
Our goal on a daily basis needs to be on our relationship with God. One thing I also know, is that because God is not a respecter of persons, when He sends His Spirit to be with us, the Spirit will teach EVERY soul the exact same thing in each experience. We might not all be working on the same thing at the same time, but we do have to all have work done in us to bring the fruits necessary for us to be like Jesus. Which was missing in the lives of those who are doing the abusing!
When the Bible speaks of “a peculiar people”, my feeling is that people will see something, know it’s different, but because we aren’t dressed to stand out, that it will puzzle them…and if they are seeking, will generally ask questions. At least that’s been the case in my experience. For example, one day I was attending a state championship baseball game to watch my son, and there were thousands of people there, and I (and several others in the stands) had noticed someone across the park watching everyone. I was in shorts and a tank top (like 99% of the others sitting around me), holding an umbrella because it was 104 degrees that day. I got this feeling he would be coming to see me…about what, I had no clue, I just started praying. I had never seen the person before in my life. Sure enough, here he came. Everyone started squirming and wondering what was up. He asked my friend to move over, and sat down beside me…we had a lovely conversation and then he got up and walked away. Never saw him again. The gist of that conversation was “You are different than everyone else here”. Yet, I didn’t really look much different, outwardly, than anyone else sitting around me!
Great that Craig is now in Ireland
Is the panic now about to end
Total clean out Full transparency
No more cover ups
No more secrecy
I wish That would take Honesty
Is Craig starting mission in Tipperary
Where in Tipperary
Are the Perpetrators from Co. Tipperary and is that where the offences took place
I know a couple with children from that county and I fear least they would be invited to a mission
Henoffour
Re you question raised today
Craig Fulton is in his late 50’s
and from Strabane Co. Tyrone Northern Ireland
He is the overseer in Ireland, his second in command is John Conley
Craig laboured in Romania for about 15 years before returning here to take up his post
Craig has just returned to from conventions in Europe and has started his mission
He is with a new worker, Timothy Irvine, who is going out for the first time
Their field consists of 4 counties, Clare, Kerry, Limerick & Tipperary
The bulk of the friends in this field would be in Limerick/Tipperary
John Conley, I believe was in the USA on a convention round this summer and probably is still there
I don’t know of either having committed CSA/SA, But John Gunn was allowed to labour in Ireland and there are CSA cases that need to be dealt with and aren’t being
Thank you for responding. My guess is that CSA is not tolerated by the government in Ireland. So, don’t talk to the workers about things like this, they are clueless. Here in America our Sheriff are the “law of the land”. I don’t know what governing force would be yours, but, I’m encouraging everyone to call and discuss this issue with them to see what can be done to stop them from being allowed in their meetings. Ours told me that any one who is aware of such a thing happening, can call and it will start the ball rolling, towards legal action. The Elder can be held accountable for knowingly putting children in proximity of a known to them predator, which shows intent to help provide new victims to the predator, as well as the religious leader who told the Elder that they were to come there. Also, let them know it’s going on all around the world, and isn’t just this one incident.
So, maybe if enough of us are calling, and the Elders and Overseers/workers are arrested, and get violated in prison themselves, perhaps they will stop treat the victims with such contempt/lack of respect. I don’t wish horrible consequences on anyone, but they are refusing to respond appropriately, nor are they listening to sound advice. So, it’s time to take action!!
Where is John Gunn from?
John Gunn is from Scotland, he was overseer in Spain for years. As I understand it he was not welcome in Scotland due to his dealings about 12 years back with Ralph Joss (ex worker) who was put out of the work suddenly aged around 65 or older. Nobody ever was told why.
Thank you, @scotlandthenrave
According to an earlier post 2 Perpetrators have been reported to the authorities
I became aware today of another Perpetrator who abused, assaulted and raped a now woman when she was a child
Both the authorities and the overseer have been informed
My understanding is that all 3 are married men
John Gunn is from Scotland but I don’t know where he is residing now
I believe this perpetrator recently reported is fresh news, so the blame cannot be placed on the fellowship. The perpetrator was also a child when this started.
I believe in this case a bit more openness to talk will have helped, but still inter-family abuse is a huge problem which hasn’t really fully come to light.
This may be New to the general fellowship and public but the Perpetrator and those that silenced the victim knew
They were and are part of the fellowship
The Perpetrator did begin his CSA when he was a Minor (pre-teen) but he did continue CSA when he was an Adult in every sense of being An Adult
I see from another site that one of the other Perpetrators is a Bishop
Craig needs to cop on to himself and take action now at this very late stage
Welcoming input from Craig & Co – I am including his email so he is aware of this thread.
The silence is unbelievable. The fellowship is crying, breaking, falling apart – and the leadership is acting as if its business as usual.
There is something to cover, just like in South Africa, but the next step of informing the fellowship will commence shortly. Craig, you need to inform the fellowship asap.
Hear our cry.
WHY IS CRAIG FULTON NOT INFORMING THE FRIENDS THAT THERE WILL BE ZERO TOLERANCE OF SA/CSA AND PREDATORS NOT ALLOWED IN MEETINGS FOR EVERYBODYS SAFETY
Craig basically is supporting the perpetrators and not the victims . He is not providing protection of any other kids in meetings and missions where the perpetrators are attending.
It had been suggested that the perpetrators report their criminal offences to the Gardà. It has been suggested that the perpetrators get professional counselling, and to apolgise to their victims, this could be a healing ground for the victims and also prevent further criminal offences. Then, they would be in a position to atrend the meetings. This has fallen on deaf ears, however.
It seems that is more important to maintain the perfect outward veneer of the meetings than to actually deal with the issues. Very sad for future victims, not necessarily by these perpetrators. Jesus spoke of the scribes and pharisees being like whitewashed tombs which appeared outwardly beautiful but inside were full of dead mens bones and all uncleanness. The outward righteousness is more important than being lawless and hypocritical on the inside in these cases of covering up of CSA.
There is no consequence for these perpetrators. Unfortunately the families are covering up these crimes and they are as guilty.
‘Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,it would be better if a millstone were hung around his neckand he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you’. Mathew 18.
These perpetrators might not pay for these criminal offences in this lifetime, but like us all they will pay for them in the next lifetime.
It will be much better to have an environment, where these issues are dealt with now, otherwise the problems will multiply for the next generation. Very, very sad and heartbreaking for all.
Zacchaeus agreed to abide by the Law, paying the price, in what he had taken he restored fourfold
Saying sorry wasn’t enough
The man that hung on the cross beside Jesus, was paying the price, under the law, and Jesus saved him
Sorry wasn’t enough for these men as they had to be seen to be, and be upright
Today, we must abide by the law of the land, if we don’t then how can we obey God
Predators have not only victimised their victims but have broken the law.
They must be reported/report themselves /hand themselves in to the authorities and admit ALL that has happened
There are some who think they can shelter Predators from God and the authorities, but they can’t
All they are doing is making a Mockery of God by letting Predators still attend meetings while claiming it is God’s Way
WHY WHY WHY WON’T YOU LISTEN CRAIG FULTON
It would truly be a miracle if the likes of Craig would listen. But, they aren’t reading and praying as they should be, or the Spirit of God would have been able to move them to see the right and legal way to handle things. We need these predators to see a Forensic Psychologist, so we can know their real issues. Saying they are ‘pedophiles’ isn’t enough, that’s too broad a statement. You cannot help them until you know the whole truth of the matter. However, they will never be ok, around children ever again. Not one person who’s made physical contact with their victims has ever been ‘cured’…that means 100% are still a danger. When you see a posting that says 98% are never cured…the 2% are only people who never made physical contact with the victim. Doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous, they are just the only group who’s had success in redirecting their addiction towards children.
Earlier this week, I had a lengthy and robust face-to-face discussion with Craig regarding CSA, SA and other matters of concern to me. At the end of the discussion, I was convinced that Craig is currently implementing a zero tolerance policy and will assist the authorities in their investigations. I hope I am not proved to be mistaken but I did get a very strong impression that he understands the devastating consequences of abuse, and will respond appropriately.
I suggest that Craig should be given some time to allow him to demonstrate his commitment to zero tolerance and cooperation with the authorities.
Robert Kee
Belfast
That’s great that Craig says he is now taking a Zero Tolerence approach to CSA. But just for clarity, the case mentioned in the original post, is a case of a bishop with a meeting in his home who has CSA allegations against him. Craig was informed of the details of this over a year ago. Craig, as a mandated person, still had not reported to Child Protection a year later. Report was then filed by someone else, as Craig declined to do so. No action has been taken by Craig to date. Mtg is still in the alleged perp’s home. If Craig is sincere in his latest comments about Zero Tolerance, and maybe he has finally decided to start taking a Zero Tolerance approach, then we would expect him to now immediately remove alleged perp from all mtgs where children are present, until child protection services have completed their investigations and given the all clear. Failure to do this, clearly shows that the presence of alleged CSA perps must be tolerated by Craig and any others who attend any mtg where alleged perp is present. We won’t need to wait another year to see if he will act, we should have the answer by Sunday afternoon. Actions speak louder than words.
I’m sorry that I don’t have any additional
Information to provide, beyond my impressions that I detailed in my previous message. As I said, I hope I’m not mistaken.
Robert
Robert, thank you for continuing to have the interest in seeking to protect our children. I am delighted that Craig has personally made that commitment to you to go forward with a zero tolerance approach.
The dictionary definition of Zero Tolerance is “Refusal to accept antisocial behaviour, typically by strict and uncompromising application of the law.”
I dearly would hope that this will translate to no known CSA/SA predators being welcomed to any meeting or gathering where children are present. Predators are skilled at manipulation, so no compromises, no exceptions.
Up until now, Craig has been accountable to no one, so I dearly hope, Robert, that Craig has enough respect for you that he will be true to his word.
Delighted to hear Craig has met with you Robert as he is hearing the affects these crimes have on young lives, that go on for ever, directly from a victim
For clarity
Will Perpetrators be forbidden from attending all meetings, missions, conventions etc
Will the meeting be removed from the home
Where victims were told they must except the Perpetrators apology, will Craig now report the crime to the Garda / Police
Cead, it sounds like you are a good person and have a kind attitude towards your fellow friends, family and people in general. You stated, “I dearly would hope that this will translate to no known CSA/SA predators being welcomed to any meeting or gathering where children are present”. ” Translated ” is the key word that you wrote. The kindness of your heart, and the soundness of your mind is very different from those in charge and making decisions, and exception regarding child sex abuser. From past action leadership have shown what they are for, and it’s not what you, Cead, would be for, nor what Christ Jesus is for. It’s what they want, not what you think makes sense, or what zero tolerance defines. When you are in charge you can make up your own rules, and definitions. Child sex abusers have gotten off the hook for decades and still are. Christ Jesus is the answers, but leadership is not for Jesus, nor following Jesus.
Hi Céad Mile Fáilte
I refer to the paragraph below that I have copied from your post
“I dearly would hope that this will translate to no known CSA/SA predators being welcomed to any meeting or gathering where children are present. Predators are skilled at manipulation, so no compromises, no exceptions.”
I would hope for and feel that nothing less than a
Total Ban From All Meetings, Missions, Conventions And Gatherings
be put in place for all CSA/SA predators that either a worker or one of the friends has been made ware of at any time
I am of the view that if they are allowed to attend meetings that have no children then if you want to visit another meeting, with your children, you would have to check first, do they have a CSA/SA predator going to the meeting
The word is out. Norman Nash has been banned from meetings due to CSA in Ecuador.
What is now happening?
What sanctions?
Not an official word about anything in Ireland, where it was heard to be said that transparency is number 1????
What about NN’s assault/s in Ireland Was he not banned for that reason too ??
I hope the other perps are going to be banned immediately as it is long long beyond time
How anybody could stand over, much less meet in the presence of, whether it be meeting, mission or convention, is far beyond me
I believe a meeting took place in Fermoy Co. cork on the 2 November .
Has anyone any updates on this meeting . Was anything agreed , was there acknowledgment of the crime’s and financial abuse by this group / Cult. Do they inform former members that they acknowledge wrongdoing did take place and abuse of power by the worker’s was common and still exists.
Or am I seeking something that they will never acknowledge or accept.
If they style themselves on the teachings of the bible surely the first step is to seek forgiveness and be open about what has been going on for so long and not acknowledged.
@DD
Yes, there is a comprehensive account of the meeting that was posted recently on this site.
The subject matter was CSA/SA.
While other issues may be of concern, they were not discussed at this meeting.
Perhaps another platform may be more appropriate for discussing other non CSA/SA related issues?
At the November 2nd meeting a commitment was given, by Craig, to make a statement regarding Child Safety etc at the Special Meetings
As a number of Special Meetings have now taken place, Does anyone know if statements were made, who made them and what was said
Also does anybody know if know Perpetrators were at Special Meetings or were they banned from attending
What is the whereabouts of J.J., J.G. and H.J. now
Why was H.J. sent home
Hoping someone can answer these questions for me
@DD and@CSA concerns
Actually, I think this is all connected. I can’t help but feel that the MONEY is giving these criminals the feeling of power/authority to do as they please in abusing each other within the ministry, and the women and children within the homes. Not all workers are a part of this, and are just as angry and hurt that their peers would/could stoop to felonious acts. The ones resisting are just as bad (or worse) than the ones who committed the crimes! EVERY overseer in the world was told about this issue in 2013 – so, TEN YEARS before Dean Bruer. They did nothing. Now Darryl Doland and Lyle Schober are the only two that I know of that are taking this seriously – as overseers (which is against what Jesus taught in Matthew 18 to HIS disciples). Many who are NOT elevated would if they could! But, if they DO try, they are tossed out of the ministry like old rags, like Kent Williston is doing in California (I think HE’s forgetting that God CALLED these humans).
Budgie, to answer your first question, below is copied from another post. Very disappointing. I don’t know the answers to any of your other questions.
“The commitment by Craig that an announcement would be made before each special meeting was not honoured. No announcements were made at any of the meetings. When Craig was queried about this, he said that a number of people were not happy with any announcement about CSA being made so Craig decided to give in to this and to continue with his cover up and protection for perpetrators within the meetings.”