I am extremely weary of church leadership’s hodgepodge response to the multi-generational patterns of abuse, denial of abuse, vague apologies when abuse is glaringly obvious, suppression of witnesses, and victim shaming.
I am sick of communications that offer a sentence or two about the victim(s), if any, while providing paragraph(s) about the goodness of perpetrators or the need to accommodate and/or not judge them.
And while I initially appreciated that some in the ministry had been taking training about CSA, I am tired of that being used as cover. Many recent communications clearly demonstrate that leaders do not understand or believe the training they have supposedly kept current. Ten to fifteen years of 1-hr training, taken every other year, equals 5 to 7.5 hours of training, on average. That, plus any other training taken, is clearly NOT enough for some. “Policies are what you DO, not what you SAY you do” and some leaders can’t even get to the SAY part. (https://ministrysafe.com/the-safety-system/monitoring-oversight/ ).
Training should be one part of a comprehensive, nationwide plan. There are resources for getting this together, such as the proactive 5 Part Safety System that can be developed with and reviewed by MinistrySafe Institute. I’m very grateful for those who are DOing and have taken this training seriously in their day-to-day lives, but leadership needs to drop the “we’re not an organization” act and get organized on this issue. Not every expert we consult has to be in the fellowship, and there’s plenty of money out there to pay for services.
For those like me who are struggling with these frustrations, there are resources that help to make sense of some of the deeply human (i.e., not very spirit-led) responses to abuse that we have been subject to. Spoiler alert: we’re just like all the other churches, or worse.
For those overseers and ministers asking for prayers and direction and feedback because you “want to get this right,” I pray that you have enough humility and honesty to learn from a Christian woman with short hair and jewellery. Her name is Diane Langberg. She has studied abuse in churches across the world. From her work you will see that the patterns of abuse, cover-ups and neglect of victims that have been laid bare in our fellowship are the same patterns revealed in other institutions that most of you would call “false churches.” Diane is a psychologist and was studying PTSD before it had a name.
Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church https://www.amazon.com/Redeeming-Power-Understanding-Authority-Church/dp/1587434385
This video is another option that covers some of the book topics. I implore you to watch it and take it seriously:
A second book by Wade Mullen is also useful. Wade’s PhD was focused on institutional response to abuse, with a focus on churches. The desire to protect the image of an institution or a powerful person at the cost of victims is a straight-up human response. It is not a spirit-led response. Especially important, this book describes what an effective apology looks like. Overseer letters I’ve seen, if they offer an apology, mostly look like apoloscuses rather than the type of apology that leads to healing.
Something’s Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse–and Freeing Yourself from Its Power https://www.amazon.com/Somethings-Not-Right-Decoding-Abuse/dp/1496444701
A third book, “When Narcissism Comes to Church,” gets personal. First, it challenges us to look inside for the elements of narcissism that each of us carry. It asks us to see the narcissist as a wounded person. But it also calls out the real damage done by individuals in our midst who carry and act on their narcissistic traits. We must not ignore that damage.
Further, the chapters on narcissistic SYSTEMS clearly describe the dangers of swimming in the waters of “we are the only true Christians.” First, this message is very attractive to narcissistic personalities. Second, a power structure that has no accountability (especially when leadership pretends that hierarchy doesn’t exist, even, allegedly, when under oath) is an absolute dream scenario for a narcissistic person. All of the above puts the narcissistic preacher in the role of feeding ON the sheep, not feeding the sheep. I personally witnessed this type of behavior while in the ministry. I believe the whole staff knew about the damaging behavior of our overseer, but no one could really challenge this “anointed one.” I realize now that I experienced trauma under this leadership, as did others. I am still recovering. Some mainstream churches now actively screen for narcisstic personality traits in pastors. Perhaps we could learn from their wisdom.
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse https://www.amazon.com/When-Narcissism-Comes-Church-Community-ebook/dp/B07ZG79HHF
In conclusion, there are many good people and ministers in the fellowship. There are ministers who truly love, serve, and crave positive change. I believe many sincere prayers have been made for guidance in the past and are still being made to find a better path forward. But I DO NOT believe many of us are even at a point of being completely honest about the crisis of abuse (of all kinds) in our group.
The ministry, despite being freed from day-to-day jobs to focus wholly on spirituality, completely whiffed on interpretation of certain scriptures about dealing with problems within the fellowship. For generations, people have been discouraged, and in some cases outright forbidden, from seeking legal and/or professional intervention. We are now told “go to the authorities” and “seek professional help” as if those instructions have always been church policy. Let us be honest – giving that advice without an apology and/or context is gaslighting. That change in stance is a reinterpretation of scripture after GENERATIONS of getting it wrong. And only STARTING to get it right 10-15 years ago because of the threat of law enforcement and, most likely, pressure from the friends.
It is time for the ministry to demonstrate love by LEARNING AND LEADING rather than being forced to do the bare minimum for victims of all kinds of abuse. It is time for the quiet bystanders, including some of my respected former co-workers, to speak up to the powerful. There are many of us out here that have your backs. It is time to stop pretending we don’t know about bad actors. It is time to stop the revisionist history. It is time to stop the self-deception and willful ignorance. It is time to apologize specifically and meaningfully to current and past victims. It is time to recognize that it is not love or mercy to put an abuser in a position where they can easily abuse again. It is time to recognize that it is evil to merely note the wounds of victims without working to provide healing. It is time to see ourselves in the priest and the Levite, when we should be doing the work of the Samaritan. It is time to stop using David’s murderous and adulterous failings as an excuse for perpetrators while simultaneously holding victims to the standard of a younger David who wouldn’t act against an anointed one. It is time to accept that, through abuse, denial of justice, and misuse of certain scriptures, we have driven many people out of the fellowship. It is time to stop judging victims and start holding ourselves, including the most powerful among us, accountable. It is time for serious, structural change.
Anonymous
About the author:
I spent several years in the work and I am now a parent. I’m sad that this letter must be shared anonymously, but it is a necessary precaution for my family at this time. I greatly respect the bravery of others who share their names. I pray for the day when open conversation around difficult issues is the norm.
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YES, this! You have outlined many of the issues very accurately. I especially appreciated this statement: “It is time to recognize that it is not love or mercy to put an abuser in a position where they can easily abuse again.” Perpetrators of CSA should NEVER be purposefully around children, period! It is just as dysfunctional for the Perpetrator as it is risky for the child(ren). Another comment I feel compelled to make is this: not only can narcissistic disordered people create large problems, but we have also had anti-social personality disorders (read: criminals) in our midst in the leadership too. That is a true example of a wolf in sheep’s clothing…
I appreciate this post so much. Thank you, anonymous, for your insight and all the references included. I just watched the conversation with Dr. Langberg, so powerful and informative. Highly recommended and timely for us all.
Right on!
There has been abuse of power in several areas and we are hoping cleansing of the ministry and fellowship will promote a spirit of love and mercy. Our church needs a fresh start living as Jesus did. Thank you for sharing your insight.
I so appreciate you bringing up the topic of narcissism, I referred to it in my post as well but I think it is at the “root” of many of the problems, that and sociopathic behavior. Thank you for speaking up, and the insight into both sides of this is helpful, to be able to see from a worker and a parent perspective. I have a hard time finding posts again after they are a few days old, but it would be nice to access similar posts and compile all these helpful links and thoughts. I so appreciate one of the other former workers that was able to clearly see what we are seeing as parents. I have been reading so much lately about narcissism, PTSD symptoms and how to not be revictimized but it becomes part of how you biologically respond when you sense danger again. Fear and panic about a time when nobody was there to protect you, & so many do not understand narcissistic abuse and the effect is has on victims and how it is often a precursor to other forms of abuse. Thank you for sharing your research! There is a book called “In Sheep’s Clothing” by George Simon that I would highly recommend also.
This post rings true to me. Over 20 years ago my wife and I along with 50 or so other friends sought to stop the excommunication carnage happening in our province. We were also responding also in defence of two brother workers being shipped out because they stood up to the overseer about abuses regarding appropriating elderly person’s estates.
The litmus test being put to these elders that were objecting to these rather arbitrary excommunications was like this: “Do you agree to support the ministry in regards to all decisions they make. Of course this was egregious, and as they said no, they were summarily excommunicated.
Those of us at that meeting, who expressed a lack of confidence in the leadership have seen ourselves sidelined. No longer asked to be elders, not consulted on anything, and not even asked to take a meeting when no one else (read brother) was there to take it!
Since then I have wondered why we felt like we were abused. We certainly knew of those we respected who were definitely and summarily abused. But I feel like the heart has kind of gone out of me. How can these things happen?
This is nothing in comparison to CSA, but I can see the tactics are the same. The desire for power and influence at the expense of justice and mercy is and has long been alive and well.
I need to add that I still value fellowship, our meetings, and the friendship of those that we know that are not even aware of these events. We have kept our heads down and our noses clean because we did not want to be pushed out of fellowship. These recent events have kind of burst the whole system failure. Maybe now more light will be cast.
Sincerely,
A disheartened and concerned former elder.
Hi Merle–we have someone with your last name in our meeting. He and his family are true brethren to us. You are welcome in my home any time.
Paul Svendsen
Bend Oregon USA
This is clear, concise, and helpful, thank you for the resources listed and most of all a basic outline for anyone taking that next step in faith to hold meaningful conversations and practical, purposeful actions
I agree with much of what you said. I don’t know if the decision makers read comments on here or not but I hope they do if they’re serious about meaningful change and not rhetoric.
Turning to the world and false churches is not the answer.
The workers are learning about man’s legal requirements and yes, they will get them right.
We follow the Bible which reflects God’s priorities. The defiant comments about short hair and jewelry reveal what the true desire of the heart is… God sets the standard, not the workers. If you have a problem with that, maybe you need to pray about it and ask Him for help with submission.
Dear Correction,
From one professing person to another, us “following the Bible”, and “God setting the standard” did not get us into this CSA/SA nightmare. Neither did us letting the Spirit of God rule in our lives. Now we must turn to “the world” and “man’s legal requirements”, because both of those have consistently contained more justice than we ever possessed on CSA/ SA issues. On CSA/ SA issues, we will not “submit”. We will no longer accept the things we cannot change. That’s lazy. Instead, we will change the things we cannot accept inside the house. It might be good if you could pray about it, and ask him if he has joy, meekness, or patience when he sees we have harmed over 1000 people by CSA/SA inside the house. I hope you find that God is very angry about that and desperately wants change. The same as us desperate professing parents feel about it. God will not fix this by sending an earthquake, or a tornado. He will use people inside and outside the house as needed to make those changes.
Correction,
The workers haven’t gotten CSA right in the past and changes are only happening now because of God cleansing the ministry and people speaking up. We can’t blindly trust the workers like the friends have in the past. We are all imperfect humans, the workers are no different than the friends in this regard.
Having long hair and not wearing jewelry are not the ticket to salvation. Once you understand this and that God is a God of love, then you can truly be free from the chains that have bound you to the church. The fellowship we have is nice and I value it, but Jesus, not the church is the “true way.”
“Correction” your choice of name says it all really.
1 Timothy 2:9
[9] Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing.
“You forgot to mention expensive clothes.”
The current out cry has nothing to do with Workers learning man’s requirements. It is to do with our fellowship (Church) dealing with the appalling behavior of our Workers and Overseers. You are what I call a “Superior Saint” quick to slam someone for something small and pull them up with harshness.
You have replaced the Law of Moses with the Law of Christ, with no spirit of Love used to interpret the word of Christ.
Quick to condemn others, look in the mirror. Self righteous with it.
Christ said to the disciples “ leave him, if he’s for me he’s not against me”
Publican said “ I’m not like this Publican. Look at what I do.”
At the moment we are not doing to well, or maybe you don’t read things that you find distasteful and classify it from the haters. Our record on these things are no different to what the Churches have faced. So I wouldn’t do comparisons as we are supposed to have the power and discernment of the Holy Spirit and they don’t. We should have a higher standard Mr Correction. How’s it going at the moment.
Read this scripture as it might teach you something all tho I doubt it.
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
[4] Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. [5] It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. [6] It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. [7] It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
As you judge so you will be judged.
Dear Corrected,
If I had a peg leg, my left ear was missing, and I had misplaced my glass eyeball, God would be able to see past my humble appearance to my heart. He knows that I will stand firmly for what is right on CSA/SA. How a person looks has nothing to do with the condition of their heart on the major issue at hand.
Dear Correction,
You have it all twisted.
Defiant comments regarding hair! Are you kidding me!
It’s comments like this that we all know keep ppl in bondage to a church – when it needs to be Jesus, 💯 % Jesus, not these ridiculous buns, and unspoken dress code for woman who love Jesus!
The Bible points to the differences in gender and it was an expression of gender.
Leave the woman alone!
From, You’re Welcome!
To Correction,
Making judgments about a person because of what they wear or how they do their hair is beyond shallow and ignorant! Yes, I know you have been taught this in the fellowship and swallowed this teaching thoughtlessly (probably most of your life) But it is clearly a ridiculous and mean-spirited judgement. And it is to your detriment if you refuse to reconsider this ugliness. I realize I’m being harsh and judgemental too but you’ve got to stop this vile condemnation of people who don’t look like you, or “the world” and “false churches” you know little or nothing about. Your last phrase “you need to pray about it and ask Him for help with submission” is apt for us all. But that is only the beginning!
I don’t think I could have illustrated more clearly the flawed thinking that has created this current state of affairs than your comment has. I want to direct you to 1 Corinthians 13, you can have the correct appearance and the respect of the workers and follow the rules perfectly, but if you don’t have love, you have nothing.
We desperately need these people you so thoughtlessly dismiss as “outsiders” for a whole host of reasons, but most of all because God is using them.
Dear Correction,
I am one of the “outsiders” of whom you speak and I have so much love and compassion for you, as you are in pain and speaking from what you have been taught.
I just want you to have a clear picture of a huge group of “outsiders” who have been aware of these issues since the very beginning and not just the Dean B letter that some are still only aware of but the 100 and then 150 and then 450 separate reports of CSA (and counting) that we held space for, coming to light.
And all of our hearts bled and we wept and we continue to pray and we hold space for all our loved ones who are still faithfully attending and who are reeling from these revelations that, are at times, almost too much to bear when your trust has been so betrayed.
I was meditating about a week after the first letter about Dean was released and I saw a beautiful ring of all of us outsiders standing around, holding vigil for everyone still inside and it caused me to weep at the love and beauty contained within that network of individuals, who span this entire globe.
There are bitter people, for sure, but righteous anger is also in the Bible and in spite of learning to turn the other cheek, I don’t think there is anyone inside or out that wants to see their children or their workers or their brother or wife or elder come to harm because of the abuse that has started to be exposed, at last.
Just know that those of us outside want change and reform for those we love, and we respect their choice to continue in the fellowship. We also care about what is happening to the faith community we have left just as anyone still attending does, and will support you in getting things made safer for you and will like wise provide a place of safety and support for anyone who chooses to leave.
You are surrounded with so much love tonight as you struggle with the enormity of it all.
Thank you for speaking up. I know the reaction over many generations was kick out anyone who disagreed with the workers, but they are humans and need to own their errors, too. I wish the workers would set up an electronic town hall (Teams, Zoom, or any other platform) and have a listening session. Listen to the pain that poor judgment caused. Listen to the victims of abuse who struggle every day to function. Listen to the bleating of the injured sheep with true shepherd’s heart. And after the friends have a chance to speak, then do better. Tell us, as the friends, that you are going to do better. Commit to do better by publishing policies and objective standards. Our workers need to hold themselves accountable and not be afraid for the friends to hold them accountable, too.
I was disappointed to see rows and rows of chairs with printed signs “Reserved for Workers” at Marge Major’s funeral. Our workers need to seem themselves as part of the congregation. Eat at the same tables at convention as the friends. Sit among the friends at convention. Sleep among the friends at convention. The friends all support the workers, but reciprocal support is limited to people who blindly follow instructions and that’s not what Jeaus taught.
Dean Bruer, the past overseers, and current overseers are not supremely holy or selfless people. They exert authority, control, and promote a system that hides facts like the workers having bank accounts, people leaving vast sums for the work and the workers accepting those monies, and erroneously equating blind submission to being spiritually mature. I cannot accept that this is the way that Jesus established when the ministry does not comply with what Jesus taught.
@ Jimmy Watson totally agree with you. Especially would like to see each field have a town hall style online or in person mtg.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely!
Please keep this anonymous. Our hurt is too raw, yet.
You are correct. This is NOT the “WAY” Jesus established. We have full access to the Way Jesus established. AND is written in very simply, clear English. This is written in the the # one book sold in the World. You probably have several in your home. HOLY BIBLE is written in capital letters on the Front and on the inside.
Please read carefully and fully. Each word is important. The way Jesus established is written very clearly and simply recorded in
Matthew 10:5 to whom the 12 were NOT to preach
:6 to whom only they were to preach and
:7 also explains what they were to preach. YES, in red and in plain English.
Also, Jesus, himself explains in Matthew 15:21-:28, verse :24 Jesus explains very clearly and plainly to a gentile(non-Jew) woman: I am not sent but unto the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”! Yes, in red ink.
Yes, the workers know this! Their reply is Matthew 28:19 and Luke 24:47. ((while you are here in Luke 24: YOU READ :49-:53: (the 11 chosen apostles :33)–Yes, the very ones who ARE the ones WHOM the “workers” claim to follow)). DID WHAT???? Yes, you read word for word. This is NOT hard to understand. :52 …returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
:53… were continually in the “””Temple””” praising and blessing
God. (what is the Temple? The Jewish appointed place of
worship given by God to Moses when given the Law to that
Nation of Israel) Jesus called it “my Father’s House.))
Is this what you have been taught?;
is this that “”lowly home not built with hands
by those who follow Jesus and who are direct descendant of the 12 apostles Jesus sent?
Now, back to the way Jesus established: Jesus sent his witness John 20:21
What did those 12 preach in Acts 2:? yes, after they had received the Holy Spirit?
AND to whom did they preach? Acts 2:5; :14; :22; :36
What did those 3000 Devout Jews(2:5) Acts 2:41 who believed do?
Acts 2:42. Yes, you must read this with your own eyes and mind.
Apostles Doctrine? WHAT is that?
Acts 2:44 all that believed were together((YES, the ones who professed)) and had all things common
:45 and sold their possessions. and goods, and….yes, the new believers. AND THEN WHAT??? Yes, you must read for yourself with your own eyes!
:46 and they(yes, the new believers) were continually in the “Temple”???
((and grab the agreement(the seemed to be pillars of the 12 apostles
made in Galatians 2:9) this is much later after Jesus sent the 12
apostles and negates any thought of the 12 ever going to any one
except the Jews! Oh; there is so much more; we learned when we
desperately began reading Our Holy Bible; to actually learn what God had written for our learning and what is for our obedience. It is a brutal journey.
As for this CSA; and mind control in name of religion: oh that each one could live their life with the sentence our criminal laws demand and the torment their victims must live with. This torment only amplifies as each grow old. Please keep this anonymous
I watched the recommendation video (see original post) and second anonymous’ review. It is so real; full of truth; this woman has wisdom from God to share. Answers to many questions that have arisen recently about how to help the victims and what to do with the abusers. “Don’t ask them (victims) to come to church, it’s not a safe place for them. Walk with them, listen to them, cry with them; BE Christ to them.” And abusers? It is not kind to ask them to be in church with children; it’s unfair to put them in temptations’ way. Watch it. It’s eye-opening.
Dear Ex-Worker. I have thought about your letter for a few days, and want to respond, not in my feelings nor in any bias. And yet it’s not going away even though I know my opinion will be unpopular based on the comments already written above. I appreciate your courage to write. I also write anonymously and hope one day that will change. But one thing anonymity does is undress the politeness and conformity and people feel free to really say what’s in their heart. We tend to value accountability more when we are the recipient of anonymous trolling – but that’s a digression. We are very thankful for the privacy of prayer where we can be totally honest before God. I believe you when you say that your situation in the work was traumatic, and I’m very sorry for that and I do hope that you can find healing and and hope in the changes that are happening these days. I do not seek to discount your pain in any way. I want to say that I am very impressed that you are willing to offer some well-thought out solutions. But now I want to share some of my impressions of your letter.
–
First of all – you want everyone to know that you’re an ex-worker – that somehow your previous status as a worker and current status as an ex-worker needs advertised so that we see what you write with greater…. What is it? Greater understanding of the problems of the work? Greater authority? You were several years in the work. And then you start off with one attack after another. Nobody can hear when you do that except for those that already feel the same way. When you talk about being weary with all that the oversight is doing, you’re sounding like God who was weary with his people’s evil and lazy ways. Who made you God? Instead of wearying yourself by reading all that the overseers who are communicators are putting out, maybe you should be thinking about why others aren’t communicating at all. You’ve lumped the work together as a whole and made some generalizations based on your small set of experience data.
–
While you’re studying all the bad things about the ministry and sitting in the seat of judgment and preaching to the choir… victims have been empowered and with one call they are taking down long-time respected older brothers amongst us because people are taking them seriously. That. Is. Empowerment. Don’t be like the ones you’re trying to fix.
–
I don’t question that there are narcissists in the work. But I can’t say that there are any more there than there are in the work place. People love narcissists! They are charismatic, they have the ability to command authority and they can get a lot of things accomplished. What politician isn’t narcissistic? I know it has no place amongst God’s people and especially his ministry. But it’s easy to be hypnotized by it. We love to have workers we can be proud of. Paul addressed this in II Cor – they wanted the same thing, a ministry they could be proud of, a ministry they could show off to the world. So this is not a new problem, and more clearly, it’s an error in the group mindset, not just a few guys at the top.
–
When you realize that a great amount of people joined our fellowship in the days of fire and brimstone preaching, you can see that they brought a lot of that culture with them. They revered the workers because they preached the Bible, and as a result they couldn’t process signs of CSA/SA and other abuse by these same preachers (this is just a small example – not meant to be inclusive). I know that God never wanted things to be as they are, but he has patiently waited until the group mindset was open to change and people were willing for the truth. I speak in general, as I know many have already been praying for this day. That doesn’t excuse those in the work or anyone at all in the fellowship who have abused others’ trust in them. In fact now these are days of reckoning.
–
Here’s my favorite paragraph of all that you wrote:
In conclusion, there are many good people and ministers in the fellowship. There are ministers who truly love, serve, and crave positive change. I believe many sincere prayers have been made for guidance in the past and are still being made to find a better path forward. But I DO NOT believe many of us are even at a point of being completely honest about the crisis of abuse (of all kinds) in our group.
I wish this would have been your initial paragraph instead of the conclusion. Even though you needed to unload, it doesn’t help us to get heard when we do so. People hear us better when we start off with positive points, exactly how the churches in Revelations 2 and 3 were addressed. In the above paragraph you acknowledge the issue of the group mindset. Changing a group mindset takes processing time and patience. And part of what gives right direction is clear acknowledgement of what IS already right and what IS already working. Perhaps when we’re finally on top of this one thing – CSA/SA – we may not have to upset the whole apple cart. Often issues are interlinked and come from the same source. That’s my hope anyway.
–
Hair is another group mindset that came from…? It seems it was before the days of Irving, for sure, but I’ve not done my homework on that. Your caustic side statement about hair was towards the overseers maybe, but I think many friends are not ready for that to change. Everyone understands CSA/SA is wrong. These other little things are just distractions that can cause you to be taken less seriously.
–
Keep your hopes up for a good tomorrow. I know that love is what will keep us together as a fellowship and love will teach us the right way to take care of wrong things so that we can bring joy to the heart of our Heavenly Father. And love to be with each other forever.
I feel a need to respond Educate and Empower. I can hear your passion in what you write. And it sounds sincere. However, I also have to say that it seems to me to be quite patronizing toward the poster. I think you underestimate the number of people in the work and throughout the fellowship who are experiencing a profound relief that their cries are finally being heard. The anger you hear in this post? It doesn’t seem to me to be a fraction of what I’m hearing from people who love this fellowship and love the work.
The one thing I think you overlook in your response is this: at the core of all the issues the poster raised are abuses of power. People teaching for doctrine the commandments of men, while at the same time actively perpetrating vicious and despicable acts on the most vulnerable. This does cause people to question which doctrines taught by these men and women were of the human mind and which are reflected in any way in the heart of God. This is healthy. And I see the same in the heart of Nicodemus when he came to talk to Jesus in the dead of night. You write as though what we do in the rest of our lives, professionally, are to be echoed in these discussions. For me? I have enough of that in the press releases and institutional communications that we put out in our work environments. But when it comes to this? I’m not looking for or expecting that. In fact, as I read the poster’s words, I thought to myself…I am amazed that with all the hurt and deep pain of personal trust betrayed, that the anger the writer expresses could be channeled into such clear and actionable next steps. For many of us, it isn’t our faith in our Father that is shaken, but our trust in people we thought would not harm us. And they have been. Deliberately and with forethought. It’s a lot to deal with. A lot. So though I appreciate what I think you are intending, I am so thankful the poster wrote this just as it is. I, for one, needed it. And it expresses feelings I’ve been having. And it helps to start to see a way forward together.
Thank you Progress, for taking time to respond. I think that is healthy and all of us come from different experiences and perspectives and understandings, which helps us to not be so narrow minded.
–
It did come across as quite patronizing of the poster, and I’m sorry about that. I felt the same way of him, that he came across as quite patronizing. So it’s quite ironic to be accused of the same – and maybe in some ways makes my point, that in our righteous indignation, we can sometimes inadvertently giving the perception of being just like the one that we are accusing. Speaking of righteous indignation, I am not sure where this idea came from, because I can’t find it supported anywhere in the Bible, except for when Jesus himself cleaned house. I know that so many of our sisters and brothers are giving of themselves to the point of exhaustion these days to comfort and support those that are upended by all that has been revealed these few months. And they have jumped to do everything they have been expected to do so that they could fulfill what was required of them in the law and in the fellowship. And now they are told that it’s not enough. They need to be doing more, more more. All of these things don’t hurt the offenders – it just gives them more ways to cover up their evil. It hurts those that are honestly trying to do right before God and before His people and want to comfort and support the friends when they themselves are reeling with the betrayal of trusted ones amongst them. They will faithfully read all of the things about abuse of power and narcissism and feel so guilty at any part they may have played in it – while the true narcissist smiles and gives us assurance with his great personality and goes about his merry way doing whatever he desires without regard for the trauma it’s causing to others.
–
I truly understand why people are angry and you can count me in that group. I’m not here for the fun of it. I’m very very thankful for the day of reckoning that we are finally having and I want more. But in our anger and frustration we can end up biting the very hands that truly feed us. The ex-worker does acknowledge that there are many good and faithful ones still in the ministry and I appreciated that.
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I do think it’s good and healthy to question commandments and expectations that are used merely as a cover and are burdensome rather than helping to increase people’s joy, and that it’s scriptural to do so. I also think we have to be careful to not lose our own soul in the deception of righteousness. Unloading is therapeutic, and we all need to be able to pour out our complaints to those that understand us. But unloading rarely has the power to bring about real change.
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In many of the impossibly bad situations in the Bible, God didn’t change the oversight – rather, He gave them a child to solve the problem. Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, Daniel, Jesus. Educating and empowering our children and young workers and everyone else has already had some graphic results. There’s a lot of information out there now, for parents and friends and workers. I do wish there was more directly from the ministry directly to our children in a way that is helpful and healing so that the children can love and trust the ministry and yet also clearly understand what are signs of someone who is abusing their place in the ministry. I know it’s ultimately the parents’ responsibility to educate their children and empower them with the understanding that they will believe them when they talk to them. I do think that children need more than one safe person in case one of them betrays that confidence, but that’s another discussion. But a healthy connection between the ministry and our children is, IMHO, vital for the health of our fellowship.
Educate and Empower, this reads like a personal attack on someon who offered solutions. How do you feel entitled to say what everyone else and the entire church is ready for? What solution are you offering? To wait and see how many more children are molested and track trends in reports of CSA? I am embarrassed by how little you seem to grasp of the magnitude of these issues.
Jimmy, thank you so much for taking time to respond and I’m sorry for your impression of my response to ex-worker. I didn’t intend it as a personal attack. I did find what he wrote like an attack and that likely colored my response more than I intended and it seemed like a personal attack as well.
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Regarding my saying that not every friend is ready for women to freely have short hair, I didn’t make it clear that of course all I can know are from my own experiences amongst my family and those I have met with. Ex-worker’s side comment on hair and jewelry felt caustic to me, and when someone is put on the defensive, it doesn’t help them to be open to hearing the advice given. I personally don’t read in the scripture that long hair and no jewelry is a law we have to follow. I personally don’t think that was the intended interpretation. I can see that mentioning how this hit me – that it was a distraction that likely would cause a negative reaction – caused the same issue in reading my own response. It was an unnecessary distraction.
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The point I was trying to make, is that – this is my own opinion and not a general sentiment – the issue is the group mindset. The symptoms are an oversight that is not trustworthy due to abuses of power. Addressing the symptoms does not fix the problem. My personal opinion is that much of this group mindset came from the days of fire and brimstone preaching when many people joined the meetings and brought that over-the-top preacher reverence with them which blinded them to abuses of power – but I know it happened from the days of Irving as well. If we can empower ourselves with ways to overcome this group mindset, I truly believe that it could have the effect of rebalancing the power. I love that victims and witnesses have already been empowered to call the hotlines and communicate their experience, and they’ve been able to make things happen that we only dreamed could happen. I truly appreciate those who worked tirelessly to get that ball rolling and I hope it never stops. Education is so important – learning the truth, learning what is not acceptable, what is not love – enabling is not love. So that people can make effective decisions and not feel guilty to call out wrongdoing. Children can understand what they don’t have to agree to. Workers can understand that there are things they don’t have to accept from their companion or overseer. And the vulnerable amongst us know there are ears that will validate their concerns. Validation can always occur even if it doesn’t end up being a valid concern upon investigation. I know that children can learn to abuse this, and that’s a known issue. But it’s worth the risk – I’d rather take the risk of someone’s reputation being harmed over a child being abused. Giving freedom to the oppressed, liberty to the bound – this is true Christianity. Educating the vulnerable on their rights has finally started and it’s none too soon.
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Thanks again for your response, and I hope that I’ve been able to address your concerns.
You do realize, don’t you, Educate and Empower, that the writer of this letter is probably not the writer of the headline? It’s not until very late in the letter that the writer even mentions their experience as a worker. Their lived experience, showing openness and vulnerability to which you respond with shocking contempt. You said “Who made you God?” That’s just mean-spirited!
And just STOP making excuses for yourself!! After two very gentle push backs from other commenters you try to absolve yourself from your vicious attack against the writer. You say you attacked because you were responding to an attack. But what you did was set up a straw man, you’re fighting a figment of your own imagination. STOP IT!
There are several other ridiculous statements made in your comments but this will do for now. On other posts on this site you have responded with wisdom and compassion and I’ve appreciated your contribution …. but on this one …you really went off the rails.
Also concerned, I in fact didn’t think about that and I’m glad you brought it up. I am sorry that they chose that as a title. I know that did color my response and that was unfair to the poster. And if you think my other posts were with wisdom and compassion you obviously didn’t read all them. We are all on here because we have had our own situations to deal with. For some reason I had this crazy idea that the work might actually take some lessons from here, and starting off with such an attack wasn’t going to get anyone heard. I now realize most of what was written was to be a comfort to those who had likewise suffered, and some resources to help.
Fascinating response, Educate and Empower. I am not sure why you assume the original poster is a man. While it could be written by a man, it could also be written by a woman. I humbly suggest that we listen to each other with open hearts and open minds and seek to show the love of Jesus as we struggle together in these matters.
You are very right that I just automatically assumed a man, and that was my bad. Thanks for your advice.