The news reports below show that Forrest Stobbe pleaded no contest to several CSA counts in 2011, but WINGS was only made aware of the details recently. Stobbe was born and raised in meetings but WINGS understands that he was not attending meetings when he was charged. WINGS has been told that Stobbe’s name and background information is in the workers’ folder for the local field with instructions that he is not allowed to come back to meetings ever. This information has been in that folder for years, and the instructions have not changed. WINGS has been advised that he has tried to come back multiple times and been told not to repeatedly.
WINGS Observations:
The precedent of blocking of this perpetrator does not seem to be followed for more recent cases, where every attempt seems to be taken for convicted perpetrators to be allowed and even encouraged to attend after completing any sentence, and for alleged perpetrators to continue fellowship until convicted.
The award of damages against the school shows that overseers and other workers could be held liable where they have failed to act properly after initial reports of abuse, especially where the perpetrator has gone on to abuse other people.
LOS ANGELES (CBS)—A man who taught at a Los Angeles elementary school was sentenced Thursday to 16 years in prison for molesting a 10-year-old male student.
Forrest Miles Stobbe, 41, of North Hollywood pleaded no contest last month to two counts of lewd act on a child and an amended count of continuous sexual abuse of a child under 14, Deputy District Attorney Bradley McCartt said.
Stobbe – formerly a fifth-grade teacher at Queen Anne Elementary School — sexually molested the boy during the 2008-2009 school year, according to the prosecutor.
He was arrested on Aug. 4, 2009, near his home following an investigation by the Los Angeles Police Department’s Sexually Exploited Child Unit and remained jailed since then on nearly $4 million bail.
Jury awards $6.9 million to boy molested by L.A. Unified teacher BY HOWARD BLUME LOS ANGELES TIMES, DEC. 19, 2012 12 AM PT
A jury has awarded $6.9 million to a 14-year-old boy who was molested by a Los Angeles Unified School District teacher when he was a fifth-grade student.
The judgment, among the largest ever awarded in a district molestation case, comes at a time when L.A. Unified faces close to 200 pending molestation and lewd conduct claims arising from another teacher’s alleged conduct at Miramonte Elementary School.
Tuesday’s jury award stems from acts committed by Forrest Stobbe, a veteran teacher at Queen Anne Place Elementary School in the Mid-Wilshire area. In September 2011, Stobbe pleaded no contest to two counts of a lewd act on a child and to continuous sexual abuse of a child younger than 14. He is currently serving a 16-year sentence in prison.
The case turned on how much responsibility the school system bore, and whether district employees should have recognized warning signs that Stobbe posed a threat to the boy. Attorneys for the school system insisted that district staff acted in a professional and appropriate manner and could not have known what Stobbe was doing.
Stobbe molested the boy beginning in October 2008, when the 10-year-old was his student, and continued to abuse him through the following July, when he was arrested.
Early in the school year, Stobbe befriended the boy, earning his trust, then began to molest him in his classroom in episodes that became more brazen and invasive. He also gave the boy numerous gifts.
Stobbe also ingratiated himself with the victim’s family, buying the boy season passes to amusement parks, where he would take the boy, then molest him before dropping him off at home.
The family appreciated the teacher’s interest so much that the boy’s father asked his son if Stobbe should become his godfather. It was then that the boy told his father of the abuse, the father testified.
The evidence against Stobbe included a jar of petroleum jelly in his school desk that tested positive for the boy’s DNA. The boy told police that Stobbe used the jelly as a lubricant for sex acts.
The plaintiffs argued that there were abundant warning signs that should have alerted Stobbe’s supervisors.
More than two years before his arrest, Stobbe was observed alone with a girl in his car. He allegedly told the principal that he had parental permission to give the student a ride, but that was never verified. He also had private lunches with students in his classroom, which was against school rules.
In another incident, an angry student pushed Stobbe down a flight of stairs, injuring the teacher. The student later declined to talk to police, who consider him another possible victim.
In November 2008, a girl in Stobbe’s class complained that the teacher was making her feel uncomfortable. Stobbe, she said, was stroking her hair, putting it into a ponytail and had once touched her buttocks.
Principal Mary Ann Hall testified that she called the police department, which advised her to handle the matter on her own — a claim the Los Angeles Police Department disputes. If police had been alerted to allegations of such contact, the department would have launched an investigation, said Det. Moses Castillo, who supervised the investigation after Stobbe’s arrest.
Hall, who has since retired, testified that she properly notified her supervisors. Attorneys for the family asserted that Hall either failed to do so, or that her supervisors failed to act on the information.
In the end, the panel of six men and six women found that L.A. Unified was 30% responsible for total damages, which they calculated at $23 million. The other 70% of the liability was assigned to Forrest Stobbe, but attorneys said they had no plans to collect from the imprisoned former educator.
Responding to the verdict, a district spokesman emphasized the district’s commitment to the safety of children.
“We take our duty to protect our students seriously and are continually looking for ways that we can strengthen our screening and reporting processes to ensure that no child is ever hurt in this way,” general counsel David Holmquist said. “Although we can’t change what happened in this case, we remain committed to doing everything in our power to promote healing and improve trust with those impacted.”
Why We Must Expose the Language That Enables Abuse in the 2×2 Church
This Substack article was written by Alissa Klenk and is posted with her permission. WINGS found it to be instructive and valuable, particularly because it is directly connected to the F&W church and related to CSA and other abuses.
With every evasive letter released by overseers (and nearly every worker), I am disgusted by the lack of transparency and the use of carefully sanitized and vague language. This was one of the first things that I began to notice when the crisis began to unfold, and I have paid special attention to it since then.
I would say that these letters are carefully worded to avoid accountability, but I don’t think it takes much effort to write in this style because it’s so embedded in the 2×2 church culture. I don’t think anyone even realizes what they’re doing. It has become “group speak,” if you will. These language phenomena are not restricted to letter writing. It’s the preaching style of most 2×2 church workers, too.
So what exactly is wrong with the language used in these communications? And why does it matter?
Let’s break it down.
Passive Word Choice
The first red flag for me was the use of passive language in letters from overseers. As a quick overview, passive language (or passive voice) is a grammatical construction where the sentence’s subject receives the action rather than doing the action.
Here’s a simple example of passive vs. active language:
Passive: The letter was written by Larry.
Active: Larry wrote the letter.
Sometimes passive language is okay, like when we don’t know who did something. But in serious situations, like the crisis we’re in, passive language hides essential information. The language is neutral, obscures responsibility, and is insincere when discussing accountability. It makes problems seem less urgent or smaller, and can unintentionally (or intentionally) silence victims to protect the system.
Here are a few examples taken out of actual letters from the ministry:
1. “…it has been decided that…”
Let’s Analyze:
Who decided it? It’s hiding relevant information and leaves readers guessing. Not naming the decision-makers makes it seem like no one is accountable.
Active Voice Rewrite Idea:
Barry and Ray have [insert action here], in consultation with [relevant group or authority].
2. “…CSA and SA cases that have surfaced…”
Let’s Analyze:
The word choice of “have surfaced” makes it sound like these cases just randomly appeared. Abuse cases don’t just surface. The truth is, overseers have known about abuse for decades. This also downplays the courage it takes for victims to come forward and minimizes institutional responsibility.
Active Voice Rewrite Idea:
Brave survivors have come forward to report the perpetrators of child sexual abuse.
3. “There is ongoing work to continue to help in these matters.”
Let’s Analyze:
Who is doing the work? What work is being done? What does help mean? How are they helping? How long has this work/help been going on? It’s extremely vague and offers no accountability. It sounds nice, but says nothing.
Active Voice Rewrite Idea:
The ministry is working with the GRACE organization to develop clear policies that protect children and support survivors of abuse.
4. “It is being dealt with.”
Let’s Analyze:
What is being dealt with? And who is dealing with it? In situations involving harm or abuse, clarity is essential. Who is taking action and how?
Active Voice Rewrite Idea:
The ministry takes child sexual abuse allegations seriously and reports them immediately to law enforcement.
How to Identify Passive Language:
1. Look for a form of the verb “to be” + past participle
Examples of “to be”: is, was, were, has been, is being, had been, etc.
Examples of past participles: written, known, made, taken, reported, seen, etc.
The policy was created last year. → Passive
The ministry created the policy last year. → Active
Ask: Who is doing the action?
2. If it’s unclear or missing, it’s probably passive.
Mistakes were made. ← Who made them?
The overseer made mistakes. ← Active and clear
3. Try the “by zombies” test
If you can add “by zombies” after the verb and it still makes sense, it’s passive.
The cookies were eaten (by zombies). → Passive
Grandma ate the cookies (by zombies). → Not passive
How often do you read a letter from a worker and think, “What did that just say?” and then have to go back and read it again? This is likely the result of their use of vague, unclear, or ambiguous Language.
Unclear and Ambiguous Language
This kind of language allows for wildly different interpretations since it avoids specifics. And that’s exactly the point.
Have you ever noticed how some people will never directly address the child sexual abuse within the church, but will instead refer to it as “concerns” or “these matters”?
Even using the words CSA or SA softens the blow of a topic that’s incredibly horrible. Ambiguous language leaves the subject up to interpretation without revealing any facts. It creates the illusion of action, empathy, or leadership without creating any accountability.
Let’s look at some examples.
1. “We are trying to listen, show we care, and comfort those with concerns.”
Let’s Analyze:
On the surface, this language sounds warm and caring, but it doesn’t reveal anything. What are they listening to? How are they showing they care? What is care? What does comfort look like? And what concerns are they speaking of?
Rewrite Idea:
“We are meeting with survivors and connecting them with support through counseling referrals. We are setting up accountability processes and are working with grace to create a policy that protects children from abuse.”
2. “The ministry is united in standing against wrongdoing.”
Let’s Analyze:
Wrongdoing is an awfully sanitized word. What wrongdoing? Child sexual abuse? Coverups? Misconduct? If the language used could be applied equally to lying, theft, or child sexual abuse, it’s too vague to be useful. It mutes the seriousness of the harm.
Rewrite Idea:
“The ministry condemns all forms of child sexual abuse and has implemented a zero-tolerance policy for those who cover it up or fail to report it. The policy outlines accountability processes.”
How to Identify Ambiguous Language:
1. Look for Undefined Words or Concepts
Words like: “support,” “concern,” “wrongdoing,” “help,” “safety,” “steps,” “care”. These all sound good, but without definitions or examples, they can mean anything or nothing.
Example: “We’re offering support to those affected.”
Ask: What kind of support? Emotional? Legal? Financial? Counseling?
2. Look for Phrases That Could Apply to Anything
If a phrase could be copied and pasted into 100 different situations and still “fit,” it’s probably ambiguous.
“The matter is being addressed.” What matter? How? By whom? When?
“We’re committed to doing what’s right.” What is “right”? Who decides that?
3. Ask: Could Two People Read This and Understand It Differently?
Ambiguous language allows different audiences to walk away with very different interpretations, which is often the goal when leaders want to appease everyone without offending anyone.
“We continue to stand with victims.”
One reader may think this means financial or legal action. Another may think it just means feeling bad for them.
If it’s not clarified, both interpretations “work”—and that’s the problem.
4. Look for Emotionally Soothing Words Without Substance
Words like: “deeply grieved,” “working tirelessly,” “feeling with you,” “striving together,” “from the depths of our heart”.
These phrases sound heartfelt, but if they aren’t connected to real details or actions, they can be emotional filler, meant to calm without informing.
The ministry’s use of vague language has continued to erode trust and cause confusion. Read communications twice, maybe even three times, and ask yourself what’s actually being said and what are you assuming. This takes practice, especially for those of us who are so used to this vague language.
When leaders speak in euphemistic terms, they are protecting themselves and the system, not the people who have been harmed. This is especially dangerous in spiritual communities.
Spiritual Bypassing
When spiritual language is used, it deflects responsibility, minimizes harm, and allows those in leadership to avoid difficult conversations under the guise of faith, peace, or God’s will. This is called spiritual bypassing.
Here are some examples pulled straight from letters from the ministry:
1. “God is cleansing His Kingdom….the falling away must come.”
Let’s Analyze:
This is one of the worst statements being made repeatedly from the platform and throughout the friends. This statement takes a horrific situation involving real victims and reframes it as something God is doing to purify the church. The real truth? It’s shifting the focus away from the abuse coverups, placing blame on God instead as if it is His divine plan. It’s deflection.
Fix:
I don’t even think rewrites are necessary in this case, because statements like this shouldn’t even be said. Instead, the focus should be on caring for the victims.
2. “I just pray that your heart can find peace again, my dear.”
Let’s Analyze:
This was written to me directly after I wrote a letter to sister workers early on, imploring them to speak up for survivors. My concerns for survivors and for the safety of my own child were turned back on me as if I didn’t have peace in my heart. It suggests I should move on without addressing the real grief I was feeling and the reasons for it.
Fix:
Don’t use thought-stopping cliches that shame people. Instead, acknowledge the depth of pain and think analytically about what has caused these problems and how they can be fixed, rather than attributing it to spiritual failure.
3. “We are praying about guidelines.”
Let’s Analyze:
Do we really need to pray about whether or not to protect our children? The statement sounds holy, but prayer should not replace action when it comes to safety.
Fix:
Identify the specific steps to take, such as working with professionals to create safety guidelines.
How to Identify Spiritual Bypassing:
1. Watch for Scripture or God-Talk Replacing Action.
Examples: “We’re praying about it.” “God is in control.” “The Lord knows the heart.”
These may be sincere, but if they’re used instead of naming abuse, addressing harm, or pursuing justice, it’s spiritual bypassing.
2. Look for Redirects to “Unity,” “Peace,” or “Faithfulness.”
Examples: “Let’s keep our eyes on Jesus.” “We don’t want to focus on the negative.” “Let’s move forward in love.”
These phrases shut down hard conversations by making it seem unspiritual to talk about abuse, injustice, or leadership failure. They frame speaking up as a problem, rather than the harm itself.
3. Check if Victims Are Being Silenced in the Name of God.
Examples: “The Lord is cleansing His people.” “This is all in God’s plan.” “Only God can judge.”
These statements minimize abuse, blame victims for “bitterness,” and excuse leaders from accountability.
4. Notice If Emotion Is Framed as Lack of Faith
Examples: “Don’t be troubled.” “Just trust God.” “Bitterness is a sign your heart isn’t right.”
These kinds of phrases can make people feel ashamed for feeling hurt, angry, or betrayed. They twist real pain into spiritual failure, which is cruel and harmful.
I want to be clear that spiritual language is not the problem. Faith, scripture, and prayer are not the enemy—they are powerful tools of healing and hope. But when they are used to avoid truth, accountability, or justice, they become weapons of silence.
Spiritual bypassing sounds faithful, but it protects the system instead of the people harmed by it. It shifts the conversation away from truth and justice, and back onto obedience, loyalty, or “God’s plan.” When faith is used as a shield from responsibility, it stops being faith—it becomes spiritual manipulation.
Thought-Terminating Cliches
Thought-terminating cliches sound meaningful on the surface, but are actually used to shut down questions, critical thinking, or emotional responses. They’re often vague, create the illusion of wisdom or spiritual insight, but really, they half the conversation right where it should begin.
Here are a few examples in letters from the ministry:
1. “We care deeply.”
Let’s Analyze:
Statements like these got really old, really quickly for me. I am tired of hearing how much the ministry cares for us. I’d like to see some actions that prove it. “We care deeply,” sounds comforting, but it’s very vague. Why are they using “we” in a letter from an individual? If they say they care, but won’t acknowledge harm, name abusers, or take visible action to support victims, then it’s just a statement with no substance. Statements like these often appear in place of accountability. It’s a blanket statement that prevents follow-up questions.
Rewrite Idea:
“We care deeply—and here’s what we’re doing to show that care: meeting with survivors, funding counseling services, and working with abuse prevention experts.”
2. “Let’s keep our eyes on Jesus.”
Let’s Analyze:
This is a classic spiritual redirect. Of course, we want to focus on Jesus, but when this is said in response to concerns about abuse, it becomes a way to dismiss uncomfortable truths. It implies that addressing harm is a distraction from faith rather than a core part of living it. It pressures people to stay silent “for the sake of unity” or spirituality.
Rewrite Idea:
“As we look to Jesus, the embodiment of truth and justice, we are committed to confronting wrongdoing honestly and caring for the wounded among us by taking the following steps…”
3. “We’re all grieving.”
Let’s Analyze:
This phrase is sometimes used to flatten the emotional experience. Yes, many are grieving—but not all grief is the same. Survivors are grieving betrayal and trauma. Others are grieving the loss of comfort or image. Pretending these are equal creates false unity and silences people who are in deeper pain. It dismisses survivor-specific grief and replaces it with general emotional fog.
Rewrite Idea:
“While many are grieving, we recognize that the grief of survivors is uniquely deep—and we will honor that with action and change.”
Thought-terminating cliches make people feel wrong for asking questions, selfish for wanting clarity, or divisive for expecting justice. They’re a verbal smoke screen—sounding good while obscuring the truth.
If it sounds final, but says nothing, that’s your clue: it’s probably a thought-terminating cliche.
How to Identify Thought-Terminating Cliches:
1. They Shut Down Questions or Disagreement
These phrases are often used when someone raises a valid concern—but instead of engaging, the speaker ends the conversation with a “final” statement.
These aren’t always wrong, but in the wrong context, they function as conversation stoppers. They suggest that asking questions or expressing pain is unfaithful, divisive, or unnecessary.
More Examples: “God is in control.” “It’s in His hands.” “We’re all doing our best.” “Let’s not dwell on the negative.”
2. They Redirect Attention Away From the Issue
These can be used to shame people who bring up hard truths, and redirect the conversation back to spiritual performance, unity, or obedience.
More Examples: “Keep your eyes on Jesus.” “Only God can judge.” “Let’s focus on moving forward.”
3. They Flatten Complex Emotions or Experiences
These blur the distinction between survivor and abuser, bystanders and enablers, or leaders and victims. They oversimplify what needs to be confronted with nuance and care.
More Examples: “We’re all hurting right now.” “We’re all just human.” “Mistakes were made.”
4. They Make the Listener Feel Like the Problem
Instead of focusing on the harm done, these clichés shift the burden to the one speaking up—turning their valid concern into a spiritual flaw.
More examples: “You just need to forgive.” “Don’t be bitter.” “Be careful not to gossip.”
When I received several letters in response to my letter to sister workers, I found some common themes amongst them. They relied heavily on personal intentions over institutional transparency, framed internal dialogue and private care as adequate responses to public harm, and implied quiet care was morally superior to visible advocacy.
There’s a tendency for the 2×2 church to frame anything done publicly as attention-seeking. This is problematic when we’re dealing with child sexual abuse. Institutional change only comes from public and group advocacy, which is probably one of the reasons no real change has been implemented—there’s just not enough public support within the group to influence change.
So while the ministry relies on language tactics that are manipulative and unclear, the congregation remains silent. Language is powerful. Recognize how it’s being used and call it out. But also, use your voice to effect change and stand for the vulnerable amongst us.
Silence is too costly, especially in the face of language being used harmfully in a situation influenced by spiritual authority, emotional manipulation, and institutional self-protection. Words shape belief. They shape loyalty. They shape what we think we’re allowed to question. Don’t let vague or spiritualized language silence truth.
Speak clearly. Speak bravely. Speak up.
Author’s Note:
For the sake of transparency, I used AI fairly heavily while writing this piece—especially in the sections that define and explain different types of language. It helped with efficiency and structure, but the experiences, observations, and outrage are entirely my own.
On a related note, if you ever find yourself unsure about how a particular phrase or sentence feels or functions, try asking AI! It’s surprisingly helpful at analyzing tone, identifying vagueness, and pointing out language that dodges responsibility. Just be sure to ask thoughtful follow-up questions—and trust your gut, too.
And honestly? A few overseers might benefit from running their letters through AI before hitting “send.” It won’t fix the theology, but at least it might flag the passive voice.
In 2012, Leroy Lerwick wrote to the survivor and her family, advocating for Marais’ return to the work in South America. He admitted the international transfer of workers who are prohibited from being on staff in their home countries.
Lerwick’s letter is posted below.
The yellow highlights in Lerwick’s letter have been added by WINGS.
August 17, 2012 leroylerwick@Redacted
Dear Friends, the ____ family;
I was in South Africa for conventions this year but did not have the privilege to meet you, or be in the meetings where you attended. I labor in South America, in Ecuador. Interest is very good in this country. We are unable to reach all who would like to listen, due to our limited number of workers. This is true in several countries in South America. We are glad there were enough workers to reach our families when they first heard the message that gave them a hope for eternity and could make that hope available to us. We would like to believe that every seeking sinner would find the Lord, but our experience makes it very clear that many will go to their grave without hearing this precious gospel, even though they earnestly desire to, for lack of messengers. Jesus made this clear, too, saying that those he sent forth would not be able to cover all the places in Israel. The harvest is great and laborers are few.
Recently we read Paul’s letter to Philemon. We do not know all the details of the situation, but can understand that Philemon had a servant, probably a slave which was his property, who had escaped from him and somehow made contact with Paul who was in prison in Rome or perhaps Caesarea. From some of the details of his letter and similar details of his letter to the Colossians it is thought that Philemon lived in that place. Paul says he had not been to Colossae, but had heard of their faith and was moved to write to them to encourage them. He does appear to know some who were from Colossae, perhaps those who labored in the ministry who were from there. We admire his interest in this runaway slave. What had he done, what harm had he caused his master, we do not know. Paul spoke to him about forgiveness, salvation, and he received a hope for his soul, as Paul states that he had become his father in the gospel. Now he sends him back to his master with this letter. Paul appeals to Philemon in a very humble manner, pleading that he would receive him, not just as his slave, but as his brother in Christ, and as a repentant slave who is willing to serve him now as if he were Christ himself. We can see Onesimus arriving with his letter, trembling, with fear, lest his master would not even allow him to present the letter, maybe he would not read it, but he does, and he watches his countenance as his master reads Paul’s plea, watches the softening of his countenance, and hope wells up in his heart, he is prepared to confirm what Paul has written, that he has changed, and now he hopes to prove it by serving his master as if he were Christ himself. We do not know the outcome, but what a lesson for us all, of the importance of reconciliation, how it can heal, how it can produce a rich fellowship. It is the reason Jesus came, to reconcile us to His father, not to condemn us, not to punish us for our sin, for sure to bring us to repentance first, but to reconcile us. None of our efforts towards righteousness or justice would be of value without reconciliation.
There have been some wonderful missions in Latin America in the past 30 or 40 years. Some countries were not given the opportunity until the 70’s and 80’s. When I arrived to Ecuador in 1983 there were only 7 people professing in the country, and now there are about 30 churches. The first pair of brothers arrived in Peru in 1969, in Ecuador in 1975, in Venezuela in 1980, in Colombia in 1988. There are many rejoicing in these countries now for the hope they have received. Where did these workers come from? USA, Europe, Canada, South Africa, Australia, Korea. Who were they? They were fragile human vessels that God was able to use. Some of them were very appreciated and loved in their home countries and went only because they insisted, though the responsible brothers in their countries would have preferred to keep them home for the need there. A few had not done well, and their testimony was such that they were not free to continue in the work in their home country. Many would have thought they should not have a place in the work anywhere. One such brother from Switzerland was given the opportunity to go to Peru, and we now can see that God’s hand was in that arrangement, as he was the man with the courage and strength that was required to go to the high mountains to an area known for its violence, where even the police did not venture. Now there are many churches in that area, and many workers have gone forth from those churches. I asked this brother when visiting there if he had ever dreamed he would see such a response when he went there. He did not answer me, but bowed his head into his arms on the table and wept. I did not know what was behind those tears at the time, as no one spoke of his past and few in South America knew. He had committed a serious error and it had been undisclosed for years. Eventually it came to light and it was decided and correctly so that he should not be in the work in his country. However he pled for an opportunity to go to some country to pioneer, anywhere, no matter how difficult, and it was arranged for him to go to Peru. We wonder if and when the work would have ever begun in that country if this had not been arranged. God is merciful, and it is His victory when there is forgiveness and restoration, and reconciliation. It is our enemy’s victory when there is none. Another brother who did not manage to maintain a good testimony was the first to go to a country in the Caribbean, a very poor country where none had ventured to go. The response there has been wonderful. None of us would have any hope of salvation without His mercy.
We are aware of the offense your family suffered and do not wish to give the impression that we do not consider it a serious matter. We hope and pray that such matters can be dealt with fairly and justly, and the final result can be healing, forgiveness and reconciliation. There are cases where one has a weakness and becomes a serial offender. There is no doubt that in such cases it is not possible to continue in the ministry or in any capacity that allows further offenses to occur. However, we in South America can say that Johan Marais has a good testimony during his years in Bolivia and Peru. There are many in those two countries that will be eternally grateful for the help received from his ministry. We have a sister from Bolivia on our staff in Ecuador, who has great appreciation for Johan, as he was in her home when her mother passed away, a terrible time for her and her sisters who were all young at the time, and in primary school. There was never any incorrect behavior towards her and her sisters. Her eyes fill with tears whenever his name is mentioned. The need is so great for laborers; all of us are so extended trying to reach needy souls. We pray that Johan could be restored to a useful place in South America even if he cannot and should not be active on the staff in his home country. Nothing matters but salvation, and the salvation of many is at stake. God can forgive, as we sing, “not a sin so great but he’ll forgive it.” Repentance is turning and not continuing in the same error. Forgiveness is possible when there is repentance. Forgiven sinners do not have a past. Offenses we have suffered do not continue to harm us when there is forgiveness, as we also no longer have that past. When we do not set a brother free, we keep ourselves in bondage. Our humble plea is that there can be reconciliation, forgiveness, and all can be set free, so that this great kingdom does not suffer loss. Forgiving does not mean we forget, but it changes the way we remember, as it frees us from the bitterness of the memory and replaces those feelings with thankfulness and peace. David was forgiven by God, but not by Ahitophel, Bathseba’s grandfather. His end could have been so different, had he forgiven as God did.
We respect and appreciate the efforts of all on the behalf of the kingdom and the salvation of all and I have felt moved to write this letter in support of those efforts. I hope it may be received in the same spirit. Finally, our humble plea is that in the interest of souls crying out who can help us, in these needy fields in South America, would you consider assuring the responsible brothers in South Africa that you would not object to Johan Marais helping in a field in South America, though he not be on the staff in South Africa. I am sure he is willing to spend the rest of his life in South America in the work and never return to his homeland if that were the conditions required of him. This is not a plea specifically in favor of Johan Marais, rather it is a plea on the behalf of souls that are destined to perish for lack of laborers. Your response will be appreciated.
WINGS is focused on protecting children from CSA and on helping victims. WINGS has no intention of undermining the fellowship, but we are concerned when we read an overseer’s letter that places blame on others and does not recognise the harm done to victims.
Following the letter from Lyle Shultz, we have posted some comments posted on a fellowship member’s public blog, that provide a useful analysis of Lyle’s letter.
February 19, 2025
Dear Fellow Labourers in India;
I am sorry for the long silence on my part since I left the shores of your country on October 30 last year. I have been in touch with several of you individually but this is the first general letter that I have directed your way since that time. You may be aware that I flew direct from Bangalore to Canada via Paris landing in Deer Lake, Newfoundland 34 hours after taking off from Bangalore. Newfoundland is where my brother, Dale and nephew, Steve are stationed. Steve Shultz, as you likely know, is a brother of Rob Shultz who visited India two years ago. Their field consists of the western side of Newfoundland and the territory of Labrador. There are only three friends in Labrador although it is a vast rugged country. I arrived in Newfoundland two weeks before they closed their mission to participate in the special meetings in that part, so got in on their final round of visiting and the last two gospel meetings there. Then I had the privilege of attending four special meetings in Newfoundland, one in New Brunswick and one in Nova Scotia. It was special to spend that time with Dale and Steve and others on that staff. I had never before visited Newfoundland and had only very briefly been in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick once before for conventions during one of my previous home visits.
After finishing the special meeting tour in Eastern Canada, I returned to Saskatchewan which is my home province. It was arranged for me to rejoin Larry Greenaway in Regina and that is where we have been since then. I was with Larry in this field the first part of last year before I left in mid March to come to India, and it has been good to get back to this area and these people that I am familiar with. We have several young professing families in this field so we always have children in every meeting to labour for and hope for. Besides them, there is a young Chinese couple who have been coming regularly recently. —– and ——– are obviously very interested in what they are hearing and told one of our friends recently that they so much appreciate listening to truth. Other messages have been confusing to them. It is very special to have genuine interest to labour for, and I trust that there will be even better things than this to report about them as they continue to listen. It is arranged for Larry and me to attend special meetings in Minnesota and Iowa during the month of April this year. We will leave here on March 29 and expect to return on April 28. Iowa is the State where both my father and mother were born so we do have some relatives down there but have more or less lost touch with them over the years.
It was good to hear reports of your convention season passing without any serious interference from dissident people. There is a movement that is sweeping the whole world to undermine the confidence of the Lord’s people in the ministry and fellowship that Jesus established while he was here. The people at the center of that movement pretend to be interested in cleansing the Kingdom, but in reality their principle aim is to destroy it. Many others get innocently caught up in that movement not realizing that most of the information provided to them on the Internet is untrue or only partly true. Unfortunately, there have been some disappointing and unwholesome things happen amongst us. There always has been and always will be as long as human nature is part of the equation. Each of us does need to be on guard against the many subtle forms that self takes to try to get its own way. Prabhakar and Saju and their helpers are under a lot of pressure as they guide the staff through these perilous times and I urge each one of you to stand by them and give them your wholehearted support. That is the right and godly thing to do.
I am sorry that I cannot write individually to each of you but do invite you to get in touch if you have concerns that I may be able to help you with. May the Lord be with each of you and and give you the grace to accept the things you cannot change and to change the things that He shows you need to be changed in your service, attitude and spirit so that each pair of workers will be displaying the fruit of the gospel as well as preaching the word of the gospel.
Thoughts and prayers are with you all,
Brotherly Greetings,
Lyle.
The Letter of the Unrepentant: A Public Response to Lyle Shultz
When abuse is minimized, victims ignored, and loyalty demanded… what remains is not Christ, but control.
My first response when reading this was: “Are you kidding me?”
But that quickly faded into something more sobering: “Of course that’s what he’d write.”
Lyle Shultz is a senior overseer in the Two by Two church. Decades in the ministry. Countless meetings and conventions. And now, in the middle of the largest abuse scandal our fellowship has ever seen, so bad that the FBI is investigating…
And he writes this letter.
He’s not just speaking for himself. He’s speaking the language of the system: defensive, dismissive, and cloaked in spiritual platitudes.
This is the language of spiritual insulation. This reads like someone writing from the safety of unchecked authority.
It sounds so rehearsed that it no longer even registers as tone-deaf within its own walls.
He speaks like a man who has never had to answer hard questions, never had to account for his stewardship, never had to consider whether his comfortable circuit of meetings, flights, and hosted meals (all funded by others) might carry a sacred responsibility.
I don’t know if I’m beyond outrage… but I am beyond expecting these men to change.
So let’s take his letter line by line. Not to nitpick, but to shine light on a deeper issue.
And more importantly, let’s contrast each part with what Spirit-led, Scripture-rooted leadership might actually look like.
I’m not writing this because I enjoy being critical or because I want to stir up controversy. I’m writing this because silence has failed us.
Because the ministry won’t self-correct. Because if we don’t name what’s broken and contrast it with what is holy and Christlike, we leave the next generation to inherit the same disease.
1. The Grand Travelogue
Excerpt from the Letter:
“I flew direct from Bangalore to Canada via Paris… landing in Deer Lake, Newfoundland… It was special to spend time with Dale and Steve… I had never before visited Newfoundland… I had only very briefly been in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick once before… It was arranged for me to rejoin Larry Greenaway in Regina…”
What This Reveals: There’s not a single note of humility in the way this is presented, just a casual retelling of international travel and multi-region ministry tours, funded by donations.
There is no acknowledgment that these trips are paid for by the sacrificial offerings of others. No mention of the scandal. No shared grief.
Just personal updates and praise for fellow workers, while the fellowship burns behind them.
This reads more like a retiree’s newsletter than a letter from a spiritual leader shepherding people through crisis. Enjoying all the perks with none of the accountability.
What a Spirit-Led Response Might Look Like:
“Since returning from India, my heart has been burdened. I’ve had many sleepless nights thinking about the pain that has surfaced within our fellowship.
Before I speak of my travels, I want to say this clearly: I grieve for the victims. I grieve that we, as ministers, failed to protect them.
Wherever I’ve been, whether Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Regina, I’ve carried the weight of that sorrow with me, and I know I must own part of it.”
True shepherds don’t gloss over crisis. They stop and tend to the bleeding.
2. Defensive Framing of “Dissidents”
Excerpt from the Letter:
“It was good to hear reports of your convention season passing without any serious interference from dissident people… There is a movement sweeping the world to undermine confidence in the ministry and fellowship that Jesus established…”
What This Reveals: This isn’t just tone-deaf. It’s spiritually abusive.
To call survivors and advocates for accountability “dissidents” is to mirror the very tactics of corrupt religious systems throughout history.
Label the wounded as enemies to preserve the power of the unrepentant.
He paints truth-tellers as troublemakers, rather than asking why the truth needed to be told in the first place.
This is deflection and scapegoating. Deflect the betrayal committed by leaders, and place blame on those exposing the truth.
This echoes the spirit of the Pharisees. Protecting power while silencing prophets.
What a Spirit-Led Response Might Look Like:
“There have been voices rising in grief and anger across the world. I’ve heard some of those voices. And while it’s hard to be confronted, I know we must listen.
Some of what’s being shared is painful to hear. But instead of dismissing these voices, we must discern what God might be saying through them.
To stand with the wounded is to stand with Christ, because that’s where we’ll find him.”
Jesus didn’t silence the bleeding woman. He turned toward her.
Spirit-led ministry doesn’t fear hard truth, it leans into it with humility.
3. Casual Acknowledgment of Abuse… then Deflection
Excerpt from the Letter:
“Unfortunately, there have been some disappointing and unwholesome things happen amongst us. There always has been and always will be as long as human nature is part of the equation…”
What This Reveals: This is classic spiritual deflection. “Some bad things happened, but that’s just human nature.”
This kind of language minimizes evil by framing it as inevitable. It doesn’t call sin by name. It offers no confession. No accountability.
Just vague acknowledgment followed by a shrug and “business as usual”.
This is minimization masquerading as spirituality.
To call generational sexual abuse, rape, and cover-up merely “unwholesome things” is to protect the image of the institution instead of speaking the truth.
And it’s not just dishonest… it’s condescending. As if grown adults are too delicate to hear the words that victims had no choice but to live through.
As if shielding our ears is somehow more important than confronting evil.
Jesus never softened the truth to preserve appearances. And He never minimized sin, especially when it harmed the vulnerable.
Imagine saying this to a survivor of abuse. “That’s just human nature.”
What a Spirit-Led Response Might Look Like:
“There has been terrible sin living in our midst. Grievous, deliberate, calculated evil.
Abuse was committed. And we didn’t act to protect the most vulnerable among us.
For that, I’m deeply sorry. I can no longer pretend this is just the reality of a fallen world. The voices of the victims are crying for justice.
It was our silence, our inaction, and our obsession with control that allowed it to flourish.”
Real repentance doesn’t hide behind generalities. It names the wrong, and it kneels in sorrow, broken-hearted and a burning desire to make it right.
4. “Support Your Leaders” (No Matter What)
Excerpt from the Letter:
“Prabhakar and Saju and their helpers are under a lot of pressure as they guide the staff through these perilous times and I urge each one of you to stand by them and give them your wholehearted support. That is the right and godly thing to do.”
What This Reveals: Blind allegiance masquerading as faithfulness.
The implication is clear: if you love God, you will support these men without question, even if they’ve mishandled or minimized abuse.
This is how spiritual institutions shield power… by binding “godliness” to loyalty rather than to righteousness.
It’s also manipulative. It weaponizes spirituality to silence discernment. And it pressures sincere believers into complicity by labeling questioning as rebellion.
What a Spirit-Led Response Might Look Like:
“Our leaders are under pressure, but more importantly, they are under the eye of God. Support does not mean silence. Faithfulness does not mean blind loyalty.
I urge you to stand for truth, even if it means asking hard questions. The most godly thing we can do right now is seek the truth, even if it leads us to uncomfortable places.”
A leader secure in God’s authority invites accountability. They don’t fear it, they welcome it as protection from self-deception and corruption.
A Christlike leader never demands loyalty to men. He calls people to loyalty to Christ.
5. A Call to “Accept What Cannot Be Changed”
Excerpt from the Letter:
“…give you the grace to accept the things you cannot change and to change the things that He shows you need to be changed in your service, attitude and spirit…”
What This Reveals: This might be the most insidious line of the entire letter. On the surface, it sounds gentle. But this isn’t a call to lament injustice or confront sin.
It’s a call to submission.
To compliance. To keeping your head down and your spirit “quiet.”
And to be clear, what is it that he’s subtly telling us cannot be changed?
The structure. The secrecy. The leadership.
What a Spirit-Led Response Might Look Like:
“Some things must be changed. And if we truly follow Christ, we will not be afraid of reform.
We have grown comfortable in our form, and in doing so, we have become complacent and allowed evil to flourish.
Our salvation does NOT reside in our form, but in Christ alone.
We must pray not for the grace to passively accept what is broken, but for the courage to confront what grieves the heart of God.”
Jesus didn’t die so we could preserve traditions. He died so we could be made new creatures in him.
And sometimes, the most faithful act is not acceptance, but holy defiance.
6. Zero Mention of Victims or Repentance
What Lyle didn’t say: There is not one single mention of survivors. No apology. No grief. No call for justice. No invitation to report. No hint of repentance.
Why it’s un-Christlike: This is perhaps the most damning omission. Jesus always moved toward the broken.
He called out wolves. He wept with the grieving.
He said, “Let the little children come.”
When image is guarded but the innocent are not, we’ve wandered far from Christ.
This is a complete inversion of the gospel.
What a Christlike response would look like:
“To every survivor who has been harmed, I am so sorry. I failed you. We failed you. We cannot undo what was done, but we can repent, remove abusers, support healing, and rebuild this fellowship on truth, not appearances.
If we don’t do this, we are no longer serving Christ.”
Closing Reflections: From Broken System to Broken Bread
Let’s be honest: Lyle’s letter is not surprising. It’s disappointing, yes. But not surprising.
It is the product of a man raised in a system that worships form over repentance, loyalty over truth, and silence over integrity.
And while I no longer expect anything different from men so deeply steeped in this culture, I still believe we must name what’s broken if we ever hope to offer anything whole.
So let me say this:
If I’m going to cast my lot with anyone, it won’t be with the Pharisees defending a failed system.
It will be with the wounded in the temple, and at the foot of the cross.
The ones Jesus turned toward after cleansing the temple. The ones the Pharisees left behind.
And as I move forward, writing, wrestling, reconstructing, I want to do more than just critique what was. I want to help point to what could be.
Make no mistake: I’m not trying to portray myself as a hero. I’m simply holding myself to the bare minimum of what should be expected if we dare to call ourselves followers of Jesus.
It should never be considered heroic to stand for truth.
It should not be rare or remarkable to advocate for victims.
And it should not be controversial to demand that self-appointed leaders root out corruption, complacency, and evil in their midst.
What’s Next?
If Lyle’s letter shows us anything, it’s that the old guard still thinks they can suppress this reckoning with gentle words and vague warnings.
But they’re wrong.
A new wave has risen up. One that’s not afraid to wrestle with truth.
One that refuses to equate peace with passivity.
One that stands with survivors and fights for righteousness, no matter the cost.
If you’re part of that wave, stay strong.
And if you’re still undecided, still on the fence, still wondering whether to speak up, just know this:
You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. And you never needed their permission to stand for truth.
The Bridges & Balm board consists of 5-10 men and women representing a cross-section of the fellowship. Their focus is supporting the financial and emotional well-being of resting and transitioning workers as well as survivors of sexual and emotional abuse. They have recently posted an activity report for Q1, 2025:
As anticipated, assistance requests from survivors increased dramatically in the first quarter of 2025. We are currently assisting 24 survivors and 16 resting/transitioning workers and disbursing over $23,000 per month in assistance (not including individual inpatient therapy funding campaigns). We are also pleased to report that the survivor for whom we did a special inpatient therapy funding outreach for in late 2024 is now receiving therapy in an inpatient therapy facility. Thank you for your wonderful response to that special funding request!
For a full update on Q1 and operational and fundraising activities, please read the full blog post here:
Dear WingsForTruth Administrators and other Site Administrators,
I’m reaching out regarding the transcript of a private Zoom meeting held on March 25, which has been published on your website. This meeting was intended to be confidential and informal, with access restricted to invited participants using a security code and waiting room.
Unfortunately, the transcript was obtained through unauthorized access to the Zoom call by someone impersonating a known participant. In your posted notes, this individual is referred to as “Jon.” While that name was mentioned during the call, the actual person “Jon” did not call in that day. The impersonator was mistakenly admitted to the call based on claiming to be “Jon”. Additionally, we do not know how this individual obtained the Zoom meeting ID and security code, and it’s possible this information was acquired through illegal means. It was only after the call finished and the actual “Jon” apologized for not attending (he was involved in an important visit), that we then realized our call had an imposter.
This impersonator had no permission to attend and misrepresented their identity as “Jon” in a text message in order to gain access—an act that may constitute criminal impersonation under Washington, California, and possibly federal law. Our policy is to fully report all CSA allegations to authorities, whether historical and current – using unlawful means to misrepresent our intent or concern during private conversation is not appropriate during the current crisis.
The transcript includes sensitive personal information that was shared with the understanding that the setting was private. Even though the impersonator was mistakenly admitted, they were not authorized to record, transcribe, or disseminate the conversation. The public stating of specific names associated with possible CSA-related allegations is also considered “defamation per se” in many jurisdictions. Public posting or sharing of content obtained through deceptive or unlawful methods may also carry legal implications, even if done unintentionally.
We fully recognize that you may not have been aware of how this material was obtained. Out of fairness and respect for those affected, we kindly request that you remove the transcript from your website and facebook page, and consider posting a brief note acknowledging that it was removed due to its unauthorized, deceptive and likely criminal acquisition—rather than as a simple “leak,” as it may have been presented to you. We also request that a copy in full of this letter and attached information be posted in explanation of the situation.
We sincerely appreciate your understanding and cooperation.
1. Washington State Laws on Online Impersonation and Eavesdropping (The Zoom call was hosted in WA)
In Washington State, impersonating someone online with the intent to deceive, harass, or defraud is actionable under civil law. According to RCW 4.24.790, a person may be liable in a civil action for invasion of privacy when they intentionally impersonate another actual person on a social networking website or online bulletin board without consent, intending to deceive or mislead for purposes such as harassing or defrauding another.
Regarding eavesdropping, Washington is a two-party consent state. Under RCW 9.73.030, it is unlawful to intercept or record any private communication transmitted by telephone or other device without obtaining the consent of all participants.
RCW 9A.60.045: Criminal Impersonation in the Second Degree involves assuming a false identity to commit or aid in committing a crime. If someone impersonated a real person to gain access to private information that they then used for harm, it could qualify under 2nd-degree impersonation if part of a broader criminal act (like unlawful recording, harassment, or defamation).
2. Does Erroneous Admission Grant Rights to Disseminate Call Contents?
No, being mistakenly allowed into a private meeting does not grant the right to record or disseminate its contents. If the individual misrepresented their identity to gain access, any recording or sharing of the meeting could be considered unauthorized and potentially unlawful, especially if it involves private or sensitive information.
3. California Laws on Online Impersonation (It is possible the impersonator is located in California)
California Penal Code § 528.5 makes it a crime to knowingly and without consent impersonate another person through or on an internet website or by other electronic means for purposes such as harming, intimidating, threatening, or defrauding another person.
Additionally, Penal Code § 529 addresses false impersonation more broadly, criminalizing acts where someone falsely impersonates another and performs an act that could subject the impersonated person to liability or provide the impersonator with a benefit.
4. Is Online Impersonation a Federal Crime?
Yes, under certain circumstances. The Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act (18 U.S.C. § 1028) criminalizes knowingly transferring or using, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person with the intent to commit, or to aid or abet, any unlawful activity. Penalties can include fines and imprisonment.
Furthermore, the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (18 U.S.C. § 1030) addresses unauthorized access to computers and can apply to cases where someone gains unauthorized access to private communications.
5. Is It Federally Illegal to Post Criminally Obtained Private Material Online?
Yes, under certain conditions. If the material was obtained through unauthorized access or impersonation, its dissemination could violate federal laws such as the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Additionally, publishing private facts without consent can lead to civil liability for invasion of privacy. The Electronic Communications Privacy Act also prohibits the intentional interception or disclosure of electronic communications without authorization.
Sequence of Impersonation:
Zoom call was started, both waiting room and security code were in use (most attend with video, some with limited bandwidth occasionally call in by phone).
We’ve never had a stranger try to attend, so when the imposter called in (non-video), they were at first admitted. (we have no idea how they obtained the zoom call ID and security number)
The unknown caller number was noticed and questioned by some attendees, and some made the statement “That must be “Jon”, since he hasn’t joined yet” (in this way the imposter would know that they could use this name as an imposter name).
Since it was unclear who owned the number, the imposter was removed to the waiting room again.
A text message was sent to the questionable number, asking “Who are you?”
After a little while the imposter texted back, saying “Oh sorry just saw this. Stumbling with technology today. This is jon”
The host assumed this was the true identity of the caller and admitted the imposter for the remainder of the zoom meeting.
Note of a recent US overseer meeting are posted below. WINGS posts these notes because of our concerns about the ongoing failure to properly address CSA issues. An analysis of the meeting notes by Perplexity, an AI system, summarises these concerns :
Minimization of Allegations: The discussion around the return of an individual with allegations is concerning. The seriousness of the situation appears downplayed (“not a crime to be weird,” “taking pictures of children and families”), with more emphasis on being able to answer critics than on child safety or transparency. The reliance on an unnamed “man in California” for assessment, rather than formal child protection professionals, raises questions about the adequacy of safeguarding procedures.
Insularity and Dismissal of Criticism: There is a tendency to characterize critics as unsatisfiable or as lacking faith, and to dismiss external concerns as “echo chamber” talk. While some self-reflection is present, the overall tone suggests defensiveness rather than openness to substantive reform or outside accountability.
Hierarchy Justification: The defense of hierarchy is largely scriptural and anecdotal, with little discussion of the practical implications for transparency, accountability, or abuse prevention. Historical doctrinal issues (like LWD) are acknowledged but quickly dismissed as no longer relevant, without detailed examination of their legacy or impact.
Lack of Victim Perspective: The conversation focuses on the accused, the workers, and the church’s reputation, with minimal attention to the experiences or needs of victims or survivors of abuse. Jokes and laughter about serious topics may indicate a lack of sensitivity to these issues.
Echo Chamber Risk: The group’s own use of the term “echo chamber” (even if jokingly via ChatGPT) highlights the risk of insularity and groupthink, especially when facing significant external criticism.
Conclusion: The meeting notes reveal a leadership group grappling with criticism, doctrinal challenges, and allegations of misconduct. While there is some evidence of self-awareness and scriptural engagement, the overall approach appears more focused on internal cohesion and reputation management than on robust safeguarding or meaningful engagement with dissenting voices and victims. This raises ongoing concerns about transparency, accountability, and the prioritization of member safety.
The overseer meeting notes were formatted and Released by Abbi & Mike Prussack / 2×2 Church Updates. The notes have been confirmed to be legitimate. While much of the discussion is paraphrased, with some verbatim quotes, the note-taker did their best to accurately capture the context of what was spoken.
Overseer Meeting Notes March 25, 2025
The following notes were taken by an attendee of an overseer Zoom call in March of 2025. Speakers are identified by name only when the attendee was positive of who was speaking.
There were a total of 17 people on the call.
Known attendees (last name given only if it was able to be confirmed)
Barry Barkley (Former overseer, senior worker) Brian Getz (WA/N. ID/AK senior worker) Dale Darryl Doland (WA/N. ID/AK overseer) David Jay Wicks (Oregon senior worker) Jon Merlin Affleck (B.C. overseer) Mike Larry Ray Hoffmann (New York/New England overseer) Richard DenHerder (China/Asia overseer) Rob Newman (CA/AZ/HI/Pac. Isl. overseer) Wayne
Pre-meeting
General chatter about the friends and where attendees are staying.
Discussion of health conditions of some of the friends.
Ray reported he was in NY City but would be leaving for special meetings.
Confusion regarding one of the attendees. Darryl surmises it could be Richard.
Someone said “Just as long as it’s not Cynthia.” *laughter*
Unknown attendee later determined to be Jon.
Meeting
Discussion with Rob regarding arranging the return of someone with allegations to meeting. (Believed to be referring to Name Redacted)
Rob was asked if there were children in the meeting. He responded that he wasn’t sure. He checked and confirmed that there is a family in the meeting with children.
Rob was asked if they had consulted any professionals to see if he was safe. Rob responded that he went through a man in California that they’ve used before. He said his finding was that he was a low concern.
Response from person asking was that it was good to be able to have an answer for the friends who would ask questions, or the critics.
Rob said the most serious thing that happened was taking pictures of children and families.
Someone mentioned that he was just one of those strange personalities.
Someone else mentioned that it wasn’t a crime to be weird. *laughter*.
Someone quoted Willie Jamieson as saying “If I’m going to err, I’d rather err on the side of mercy, make sure I’m not part of the problem.”
Rob was asked if he’s been in any meetings at all. Rob responded that he hasn’t been in any so far.
Rob mentioned that his elder and elder’s wife have been very supportive through the situation and they know him better than anyone.
Confirmation was given of his (perpetrator’s) wife being very loyal.
Someone mentioned that the alleged perpetrator was one of the names put on a list by Bridging the Gap, and they’d listed their overseers on it as well. (Believed to actually be referring to lists by Pamela Walton)
Someone asked for clarification that they had actually published a list.
Response: “Well, that Jenn Tschetter did, whatever she’s on.” (Jenn included Pamela’s list in a recent weekly newsletter)
Richard DenHerder asked if they were serious offenders or not serious offenders.
Someone responded that it was a little of everything.
Someone else said that they had gone through a process and were deemed safe to be in meeting again. But that others spin it in a way that makes it sound like they are putting a bunch of dangerous people in meeting.
Same person said it was all carefully done.
Richard says that Bridging the Gap had done a bunch of sessions on exposing the Truth.
Richard explained that he had taken transcripts from all of the sessions and was in the process of using ChatGPT to process the transcripts because he doesn’t have time to listen to all of it.
He is using ChatGPT to determine all the complaints against the church and about doctrine.
Richard mentioned that lots of the friends are listening to those sessions and it’s good to know what they are being fed.
Richard says that so far ChatGPT had said “warning: echo chamber” *laughter*
Someone says “So a robot is smarter than they are.”
Richard says he thinks the word is “honest”.
Rob says the offender is not in meetings yet. The elder and his wife were going to wait until after special meetings to approach him about returning to meetings.
Darryl asks Richard if there was much mentioned in the Bridging the Gap videos about hierarchy.
Richard confirms this and offers to send everyone the summary from ChatGPT.
Darryl talks about recent reading in Revelation about John talking to an elder. He uses this to note that there’s even hierarchy in heaven.
Darryl says that people are saying that ideally there would be no hierarchy, but even John’s vision of heaven had hierarchy.
Ray mentions Michael the archangel and how that seems like hierarchy to him.
Someone chimes in that it just comes down to having order.
Richard mentions that you see hierarchy in the body. If everything was equal we would just be a blob. And that he’s sure the foot enjoys the hand scratching it when it itches.
Richard says that one of the complaints they had was about the LWD (Living Witness Doctrine), which he quickly says they (the workers) don’t believe.
Richard mentions that the LWD (Living Witness Doctrine) did come up in the church at one point in history but was “cleaned away”.
Someone asks what LWD is.
Richard responds that it’s the belief that eternal life is only gotten through the workers, and that the truth is an unbroken line back to Jesus.
Ray recounts a story of someone who contacted him and wanted to attribute the origins of the truth to William Irvine.
Ray says his response to this person was to ask if he’d be satisfied if he gave him the name of the person who brought the gospel to William Irvine? Or if he’d be satisfied if he gave him the name of the person who brought the gospel to the person who brought the gospel to William Irvine? Etc.
Ray said he answered for the person, no, you wouldn’t be satisfied until I could give you names that go all the way back to Peter, because you have no faith.
Someone mentioned that George Walker had said that if LWD was true then he’d have to deny his own testimony.
Richard said that they (people on Bridging the Gap) say that you don’t need to go to meeting to serve God, or they say they have better fellowship outside of meetings. He then says this is not scriptural.
Someone says quote of “by one spirit we are all baptized unto one body”
Someone else quotes Malachi “those that love the Lord spoke often one to another”
Someone else quotes Psalm 50 “gather my saints together for those who have made a covenant with me through sacrifice.
Ray says “don’t forsake the assembling of yourselves together”
Richard says one complaint they (Bridging the Gap) had was that the workers pick and choose Matthew 10.
Darryl says that they have a list, and that some of the things they say we don’t do, he begs to differ.
Darryl says that they say the workers only do 18% of the things described in Matthew 10. But that’s not the percentage he came up with.
Darryl is asked where that came from, he thinks it was on CCF, but may have originally been on Bridging the Gap.
Richard said that on Bridging the Gap they had said there was no need to go 2×2, but the verse they quoted was where it said to send Paul and Barnabas. *laughter*
Someone says Henry Moore’s answer to this was “we do greater works”.
Speaker clarifies that Henry was an old Irish worker.
Merlin says he’s up in Northern BC and he’ll admit he has a couple coats (referencing the previous discussion about the claim that workers don’t follow Matthew 10 where it says “Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes.” *laughter*
Someone says that one of the friends, after reading Matthew 10, had said it just sounds to them like “don’t take more than you can carry around.”
Same person says people are always looking for what they can get, and we (the workers) are always looking for what we can get rid of.
Someone said that a man had been coming to their meetings and his companion had spoken in a meeting on Matthew 10 and after the meeting the man came up to him and said that he now saw that the workers are the apostles. He had gotten that revelation just sitting in the meeting.
Darryl said another thing they have a problem with is “go not house to house”.
Darryl said that when this was brought up, Craig Stockwell mentioned that buddhist monks go house to house looking for money and people don’t like that, and that’s not what Jesus was recommending.
Darryl then said there are other places where it does talk about apostles going house to house.
Someone mentions that before that it says “if they receive you, remain in that house…” and they go on to say that if there’s a mission, there’s a need. They also said that they sometimes leave sooner than they should because of their fear of being a burden in the home they are staying. Says this happened more in the past than it does now.
But they finish by saying that this wouldn’t satisfy the nay-sayers, we don’t need to satisfy them.
Rob says the dissenters have a great motivation to discount the ministry because if they don’t discount it they fall into that group of people that Jesus said “it would be far better for Sodom and Gamorra, than to reject those that he had sent.”
Someone else says that nothing will ever make them happy.
Someone says there’s a large group of the friends who are solid and don’t need any help, and there’s a large group of people who are not “part of us”, but it’s really all about the ones who are right on the edge of those two groups. That maybe they can help one or two of those, not with reasoning, but with clarity given by the workers it can help them come back.
Same person says there’s not much you can do with the info from Bridging the Gap, but it’s nice to know what is said.
Someone said that they had a lady in their field who was in this position, and God woke her one night and told her she was drinking poison. So the Lord is well able to rescue those who want to be rescued.
Someone else says the Devil uses a little bit of truth to bait us to catch us in a lie. He tried it on the Lord, he used scripture.
Ray mentions the stones between the cornerstone and the headstone. He references something that Barry had said at an earlier time, that sometimes the stones in between just need to be discarded.
Barry recounts a time that George Walker invited him to his room at a convention in Ohio and he said that if a few shingles blow off a roof, that can be repaired. But if a disease gets into the foundation stones, that will be felt through the whole building. To fix it you may have to set a few good stones aside until you can get down to the one that’s crushed, and build up again. But what it comes down to is that it’s up to the Lord.
Ray says to think about how we felt when we were called. We had no clue what the future would hold, but were willing for whatever Jesus had planned for the ministry. References spirit that young people have when they first start out, total submission to the rock. Versus the spirit of resisting the rock like the dissenters.
Someone relayed a story of a couple he had stayed with who told them their testimony. They had been going to another church and the pastor had mentioned that workers were in the area and that people should use their discernment when interacting with the workers. They prayed to have discernment and had invited the sister workers over. They said that as soon as they opened the door, they knew that they were the servants of God.
Barry relayed a story told by Jack Jackson. Jack had said that he had told the sisters in the early days not knowing the language, that God would use what they were more than what they say.
Ray spoke about the parable of the treasure hid in a field, and that it does seem that God is hiding that from a lot of people. He mentioned in Jesus day that when the blind were made to see and the deaf to hear, thatJesus always told them not to tell anyone. The people who are worried about a hierarchy and all, they are missing the hidden treasure.
Ray says they have reduced Jesus down to CSA and are missing the treasure.
Someone talks about how they were talking about Truth in gospel meeting and how it’s the same everywhere in the world. He had said in his sermon that he had been in Asia, in various countries, and they could have fellowship due to all having received Truth. The call-in number for the gospel meeting hadn’t been muted, and someone listening had said “That was a waste of money (the flights around Asia), they could have taken that and given it to the victims.” *laughter*
Darryl says “stop the heart and sell the blood” (referencing that the movement of workers among countries is as vital as having a beating heart)
Someone asks if that’s a Chinese phrase?
Someone says that circulation is good and is a miracle.
Someone else says, in reference to hierarchy, that none of them were pressured to go in the work. It was a personal calling.
Someone else says that none of them asked to be overseers either.
Someone says that overseers have the privilege of serving servants. “And carrying out a lot of garbage. Save somebody else from the job.” *laughter*
Someone asks Richard if people in China ask about the West.
Richard responded with yes. He talked about meeting people and that people talk positively about the West.
He mentioned that he’s in China on an Irish passport and he often says he’s an Irish citizen to avoid the politics of America.
Richard talked about a man who owns a coffee stand who likes to talk. The man asked him if he thought there is a deep state controlling the world. Richard said no, that the only one in control is God. The man asked if he believes in God and reads his bible every day and gave a kind of smirk.
Richard says they are nice people and that they are watching his testimony.
Richard mentioned tarot cards, that they don’t use that much in China.
Ray talked about a woman who recently stood up in a meeting, and another lady who they thought would stand but she hadn’t due to a misunderstanding of what testing the meeting meant.
The lady who recently stood up is 90 years old and is quite tall, and was brought to meeting by one of the friends who is a “midget”.
Richard mentioned that the Chinese are superstitious, and most of them know it’s quackery. But there are some who have a spirit that they deal with.
More discussion about fortune telling.
Discussion about two professing men who had died in a small plane crash. Noted that the plane had been completely compressed, but the man’s bible was found a short way from the wreckage without any damage.
Meeting adjourned, with discussion of plans to meet again the following week.
The authors of a recent letter have decided to post it online. They state:
“Because no response has been received to the following letter from any it was addressed to, the co-signers have agreed to post it online in an effort to inform those who may be impacted, since we have no other confirmation that this information was shared to them. Since we are unaware of any criminal accusations against Harold, the lack of response may be that the behaviors do not justify informing the congregation. Unfortunately such a reactive process can only adapt to crimes that already occur rather than one of crime prevention. We believe and endeavor to help the community prevent crimes when there are reports of blatant and unabated grooming behaviors by an individual. It should also be well understood by now that people can be terribly harmed even without crossing prosecutable boundaries, which is what has occurred in the case of Harold Bennett based on survivor stories shared to Cynthia and others.”
March 17, 2025
Dear Doyle, Jay, Darryl, and Boring Convention owners,
We are deeply concerned about a recent photo of Harold Bennett with his arm around a young man, reportedly taken two weekends ago in Oregon after a union meeting on the Boring convention grounds during a young people’s gathering. The image depicts a young man embracing Harold surrounded by many underage children, with no other adults in the picture. While we understand other adults were on the premise, the picture made public on Instagram does not show any parents present and thereby sends a message that Harold is a safe person around young people, even unsupervised. As we’ve been trained, perpetrators depend on building trust as a currency which they spend to access their victims. This image is a prime example of how this trust is built and propagated onto others.
Our concern stems from longstanding issues regarding Harold’s inappropriate interactions with boys and young men. The ministry has been aware of these issues for quite some time. Over 20 years ago, Ed Alexander expressed his concerns in a letter. In 2015, Dale Schulz had a meeting with Harold, during which he mentioned that Harold had been reprimanded previously, yet the behavior persists. We understand some of Harold’s former companions and other male workers began to voice concerns about him in the late 1990s to ‘responsible’ male workers in Oregon. Additionally, five of those former young male workers wrote to Harold and to the West Coast overseers in 2011, sharing their concerns about Harold’s behaviors once again. Additionally, Doyle, we know that you are personally aware of the dangers Harold represents, as you mentioned to Cynthia, Sheri and Lauren in 2023 that you had personally witnessed Harold’s inappropriate interactions with young men.
In 2023, Harold was finally removed from the work under intense pressure (including, as we understand, from other overseers). However, the letter explaining Harold’s removal was vague and did not effectively disclose to the friends the level of trauma Harold has inflicted on others, denying them the ability to make informed decisions for themselves and their children. Despite all their efforts, Harold’s behavior has not changed, and we have received first-hand information that his behavior is continuing to this day. The image above therefore represents problematic behaviors that have caused the extensive history of abuse in the church:
A congregation either uninformed or ill-informed about a man with a history pf predatory conduct; and
A failure by leadership to establish boundaries of safety that empowers the friends to enforce safe boundaries for their children and their vulnerable within the church.
We see it as imperative that those in positions of responsibility within the church must take immediate and decisive action to prevent future harm. What that looks like to us is the following:
Prohibiting Harold from attending gatherings where young people may be present. Ensure that the friends clearly understand this boundary is in place; and
Informing the community transparently about Harold’s past behaviors to ensure they are aware of the risks for their own children and young adults and take their responsibility on this matter seriously.
The young men exposed to Harold deserve to know the truth and the extent of his past behaviors, which are reliable predictors of future actions. They deserve to be aware of the risk he presents.
We understand many of the friends believe Harold’s inappropriate behavior is due to him being misunderstood, due to him being autistic. This is a false narrative that also needs to be addressed. First, autism does not prevent people from learning when their behaviors are called out as inappropriate. Secondly, if someone has a development disorder that makes them inappropriate around children and young people, the friends need to take even more care, as this means Harold’s behaviors are both uncontrolled and unpredictable.
How many more victims are you willing to risk before taking strong actions to ensure he Is not allowed near young and vulnerable people?
We look forward to your response and action on this matter
This letter may be shared to any and all that have an interest.
I am writing this with a heart that is full of sadness and pain.
I gave my testimony 2yrs ago at Winchester never believing it would be my last ever. That testimony cost me so much to give, baring my soul about CSA and how I was desperately trying to deal with the rivers of emotion and feelings of hopelessness. After walking out of the shed I had the most amazing sense of calm contentment I hadn’t had in months. I knew God had been troubling me to make me say that testimony, I tried so hard to get out of saying it, but I knew it was something I had to do.
I have been watching all of the CSA victims as they have found the courage and strength to come forward. I know what it costs each one. I have a overwhelming sense of love and hope for healing of each and everyone.
But I have had a red line in my heart that I knew I could not go over.
I have watched the USA and Canada workers and overseers given way to letting the pedophiles that walk among us being allowed to come back into meetings and fellowship.
I have watched as good people who walk with God are having their meetings removed and being removed from all fellowship.
I have watched as those that were once revered as spokesman of God have now revealed their feet of clay and their words of bondage.
I have watched as Australia is now slowly but surely going down that same path.
I am watching this pattern now coming into New Zealand and I cannot standby and say nothing.
I watched as a perp in the North Island was allowed back into meetings with nothing more than a ‘behave yourself’. While the victim was silenced and victimized by those that should have been a comfort and helping hand, and that victim has now left the fellowship.
I have watched the same thing happen in the last few weeks in NZ.
I cannot stay in a church that seems to reward abusers and punishes the abused.
I cannot stay in a church that seems almost paralyzed by indecision and ineffectiveness.
I cannot stay where our children are not safe because the established overseers are unable to put the children’s lives and souls before those who would abuse them.
I cannot stay where we would allow abusers free license to have access to our little ones, and stand aside and just let it happen.
I WILL NOT.
‘Better a millstone is hung around his neck and he is thrown in the sea‘. There is no talk by Jesus here of forgiveness here.
This letter is to say that after talking to God and pleading with him, for an answer as to what I should do, I have finally had my answer.
This is my final and lasting testimony to all. I do not have a heart of anger or bitterness. Please don’t think that or tell others I do.
I have a heart of sadness and deep devastation that I have to remove myself from a church that once was my life, and fed my soul. But has left the teachings of God for the teaching of men/overseers.
We have some workers who are truly amazing and are there for the furtherance of the gospel.
But the senior overseers around the world have lost their compassion and their calling that originally was their reason for doing the work of God.
Until the people see for themselves what is happening to the church I can only see destruction.
WINGS Note: A support group on social media recently published the results of a survey they conducted of ex-workers. They tried to leave responses as unedited as possible but removed some details (years and names) to preserve anonymity for the submitters. The data shared is not to reduce the trauma to numbers, but to show recurring themes/issues. WINGS publishes this survey for its references and relevance to Child Sexual Abuse.
Warning:- topics of abuse, suicide, the Bible, religion, profanity
Question 1
Did you feel a “calling” to go in the work?
68 responses
Other Responses-
I thought I did
I felt that I should help and in a way that I was “called”
I wrestled for clarity and finally felt like “the need” was the call
I felt a calling to ministry…..at that time the only option i saw was the work.
I felt compelled because of the great need
At the time I did, but it is something that I have tried to understand why, as I clearly saw the fallacy of the ministry.
I made up reasons for me to go….no real calling
Yes, but also pressure/guilt
At the time I felt like it was a calling. Now I think it was more of pressure from around and being groomed from a young age.
Question 2
How old were you when you offered for the work?
67 responses
How long did you wait?
Other responses-
20, then retracted offer, then offered again at 21, worked to pay off loans and went in work 9 mos later
20, but I withdrew my offer for 4 years
12 when I knew I was called, offered 17, waited 2 years.
21, I waited one year
Question 3
How old were you when you started in the work?
76 responses
Other responses –
25. But I offered at 20 so my life was impacted from that point on. Girls in my state had to wait a long time.
21 year old child
Question 4
How much education did you have before starting?
76 responses
Other responses –
TAFE education (technical college) and partial bachelor’s degree
3 year graduate of nursing school with RN (registered nurse)
24 month X-ray program
College Diploma
Certificate 3 (after completing high school)
Question 5
How much education did you complete after leaving the work?
60 responses
Other responses –
Refresher courses by Microsoft in computer use, some programs
Master’s degree in progress
Currently completing a bachelor’s degree
Have applied for a masters degree
Mentored by caring parents and friends
Applying to grad school now
Commercial pilot ratings to fly for the airlines.
Re-entered the Physician Assistant profession
I took some independent study classes in Art History, then with one of my jobs I took a course in Tourism Marketing.
Bachelor’s Degree in progress
Trade school, bachelor’s degree
Attempted to study but was not able to concentrate. Have completed various work related technical and IT related courses for my work.
Certificate 3 (TAFE)
I got my 5th year of education
None, health recovery
None. At 59 it was too late to start again
Question 6
What years were you in the work and where?
65 responses
Years removed for anonymity
AL/MS, MI/AR, CO/UT
Australia
Australia (Queensland, South Australia) and PNG
Australia, Hungary, Germany, Austria
BC, AB, Yukon, Maritimes (Canada)
CA & AZ
CA, AZ
CA, AZ, HI
CA/AZ/HI/MX/China
Calgary
CO, UT and MN (USA)
Eastern Canada
Ecuador
IL, WI, NC & FL
Ireland, Romania and Serbia
Kansas
Manitoba, Canada and Chile, South America
Manitoba/Saskatchewan
MI, WI, IA, CO (USA)
midwestern USA
MN, SD, Nicaragua
MO, AR, IL (USA)
MT, WA, Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka
NE/KS, CO/UT, Finland
Netherlands, Belgium, France, Suriname, Aruba, Curaçao
New Mexico
NSW Australia
OH, WV, IN
OR
PA
PA, LA, MD, DE, GA, Ecuador
Queensland Australia
Queensland, AU; Sri Lanka
Queensland, Australia and Kazakhstan
Saskatchewan
Saskatchewan, Canada & Sweden
Scotland
Sweden, Finland, Canada
Texas
Texas & Louisiana
TX/ OK, CO
USA and Canada
VA, MD, DE, PA, NC (USA)
WA
WA
WA
WA
WA
WA, CA/AZ, Mexico
WA, ID, AK
WA, WI, MT
Washington state
West coast of US and Mexico
WY, MT, OR
Question 7
How many years were you in the work total?
75 responses
Other Responses:
12 because i rested/doctored for 5 yrs in the middle
16 but i rested/doctored for 4 yrs
5, but with 1.5 years resting in the middle
26 plus a couple years resting with the intending to get back
3 months
9 months
Question 8
Did you experience abuse from your companions or coworkers?
76 responses
Yes- 68.8%, No- 19.5%, Other- 11.7%
Other responses –
Not really. Some of my companions were pretty wounded and emotionally immature but none did anything toward me that I view as abuse.
It is different for everyone. In my situation and experience in the work, abuse is too strong of a word. I”ve faced similar situations in my post-in-the-work life too. It’s sometimes about the other person, and sometimes about me and how I take it. I had a lot of unrealistic expectations about workers and the work..
Now that I look back on it, so much of the system was abusive, and of course my companions upheld the mindset of the system, as did I. But I don’t remember specific abuse from companions.
A continuation of conditioning.
I think, but it’s hard to understand what dictates emotional abuse
Non physical – mental or psychological
Nothing more than the ongoing emotional manipulation that was present growing up in the 2x2s
I was drug by worker name for 8 years and by worker name
Question 9
What kind of abuse?
65 responses
Additional responses –
I now think the theology is quite limiting and thus there was some spiritual abuse, but none directed only at me
But I didn’t know what spiritual abuse was till recently.
Labour trafficking
Sexual grooming from friends in a field
As previous question, nothing over and above the ‘norm’
Lack of transparency regarding the origins of the sect.
Infantilization.
Sexual power abuse from older brothers
Another look at the types of abuse-
Question 10
What symptoms/health issues did you experience in the work?
75 responses
Additional responses –
I refused to manufacture a health crisis as an excuse to leave, and I am remarkably healthy.
Insomnia (2 responses)
Shaky, holes in skin, sleeping problems, problems with focus/concentration
Wanted to die everyday
Severe menstrual problems, anaemia
PTSD diagnosis
I had some of those symptoms before the work, so I don’t want to say they all came from the work
Asthma symptoms escalated requiring medical attention
Low self esteem, guilt
Top 10 percent for heart disease
I was forced against my will to take antidepressant pills.
Question 11
What positives did you experience in the work?
70 responses
Travel, friends.
Met lots of amazing friends and experienced several foreign cultures and learned languages
Connection with people where they were, a sense of belonging and purpose, travel to places I would likely have never gone otherwise
Learned a lot about myself & life.
Fellowship w the friends
I Learned to like a lot of diff foods. Cultural consciousness and diplomacy.
I had many friendships and positive experiences in the work.
1. I saw some truly giving their lives for others. 2. I learned that some people are immature no matter their age. 3. I learned that I must speak up for my needs. 4. I felt loved by the people.
The friends, several great companions, all disappeared when I left the work
Community, surrounded by people who regarded me highly, felt supported and admired
Relationships with people who hosted us, personal growth, more open mind toward future careers, and early questions about the 2×2 system (retrospectively).
I felt very much it was my place, so no responsibility to plan my life. I really liked to give my life for the friends and loved to recruit. It felt like the only right thing to do.
I did get much closer to God and I learned a whole lot about what the Bible says.
I had many good experiences and connections with people while in the work aside from the horrific abuse.
Close friendships, deep experiences
Travel
Drew nearer to God
Felt so loved, fun times at preps with my worker friends, I loved the people so much, it was amazing feeling so welcome in many homes, one companion taught me how to be practical and take care of myself.
A sense of rightness, belonging, and discovering a love of deep connections with people, meeting them where they are.
I met many wonderful human beings and I learned a lot about myself.
Loved some of the people and travel
Friendships, some of which are still ongoing; learned different cultures and languages in different cultures; community feeling; learned about the importance of good communication in relationships;
Spent more time reading my bible
I met some wonderful people and had some wonderful coworkers
Friendships, laughter
I spent lots of time reading my Bible which was good. I met a lot of nice friends/saints
Hard to find any
None
Good social life
Community and purpose
I got to go to places overseas I might not have ever visited. Community and networks.
Freedom from needs. Watching God working in spite of me
I loved most the friends
I saw so much love from the friends. I also learned so much about scripture.
Being cared for and made to feel special by friends, the existential sense of “giving my all” and “being in God’s will”, the sense of camaraderie with other workers especially at preps time, and the occasional high of a convention or meeting messages feeling especially inspired.
Love, many life skills that served me well later
I had many wonderful experiences getting to know so many wonderful people and traveling. I enjoyed the different cultures I experienced and learning languages.
I loved preparing for meeting (alone time – yay!) and I loved meeting awesome people
Fellowship with the friends. Fellowship with fellow workers. Friendships that will last a lifetime.
Loving on people is a beautiful thing, life experience, another language, lots of practice in public speaking, learning that I will give absolutely everything for something I believe in, it made me a more interesting person, it helped me to leave meetings and start my healing journey to my beautiful self. And so much more, really…
Met wonderful people. Friends were so kind.
Met some great people and learned how to speak in front of an audience
The kindness from the friends
Time to study the Bible, learn about God. Proof of God’s care/love for me.
A deep relationship with the Lord, becoming familiar with the bible
Not a whole lot. Probably the fact I got to be in other countries and experience other cultures but it was always tainted by the control and psychological abuse.
Being mostly sheltered from “the world.” Friends were kind and generous.
This is tricky because many of the positives are also wrapped up in all of the cult conditioning. I had meaningful and robust relationships with my coworkers and the friends. I had a profound sense of purpose and meaning. I had a way to make sense of the world and my place in it. While I was in the work, I felt deeply that I was doing what I was meant to be doing. I felt a connection to “God” that helped me everyday of my life. I felt ease and joy in my life. I loved being available to love people. At the time, I loved seeking to embody the compassion and care of “Jesus,” though everything about the Bible is pretty tricky for me right now. While I was upholding the culture and doctrine of the cult, I had a beautiful and robust community. I was loved and adored (probably worshipped too). I had this perfect little package of certainty and security until it all broke.
Learned how to deal with lots of personalities, had lots of time to read the Bible, and some awesome friendships were made
People were kind to me, generous and shared what they had. I got to know them and see the inside of their life. Sometimes I got to see the real person, and that was nice. I appreciated the time I was given to read and pray, because I did that. I do believe that I had a connection with God, that had nothing to do with where I was and the “sacrifice” I was making.
I got to know a lot of people who I appreciate to this day. Some fellow workers and also some friends.
I believe my years in the ministry were important, formative, spiritual development.
There were a lot of positives. I loved our friends, visiting among them, sharing the gospel – having Bible studies with new Christians – meeting local people in the communities I visited – sitting with the elderly as they passed… I did enjoy the fellowship among the workers at preps.
I enjoyed the people but seeing things I knew wasn’t right caused great concern
Met lots of people. Many experiences. Lots of encouragement.
Maturity, consideration, integrity
Love and kindness from so many people
The people.
friendships, joy, satisfaction but some of the things that seemed positive now seem to be an illusion. because some friendships I thought I had have disappeared. I thought I had Satisfaction in serving God in a ministry that was aligned with Jesus teaching, now has turned to shame in what turns out to be a ministry full of dishonesty
Peace, feeling all was well between God and I.
I got to know God and Jesus better. Connected with some special people. I did develop a love for souls.
Learned people skills, public speaking skills, confidence in biblical ideas, learned a lot about the Bible.
So many! It was wonderful to witness 1st hand God’s work in others lives as well as mine own. I made lots of genuine friends and met lots of wonderful people. I was amazed that God could put a genuine love in my heart for so many souls and vise versa. I am not much for public speaking, but I was amazed to feel his spirit giving me strength to share his word. Amazed to see his hand guiding us to places we hadn’t thought to go, and aligning the path to intersect with others searching for something to feed their soul. I learned so much.
Approval at the time from the friends. After I left the work I was treated like gum on the bottom of a shoe
Too many to enumerate
The tremendous opportunity to study and learn more about Jesus
Networking, human connection
enjoyed convention preps; enjoyed several large tent-making projects in WA, CA, MT & Canada
None
Love for God’s word and serving others
A clear call and purpose. Deep friendships
Question 12
Why did you leave the work?
77 responses
(…Learning the history of the fellowship)
Other responses –
Wanted a wife
I really didn’t feel i had been called, and God opened a door for me in a very obvious way
I’m gay. There are other incidental reasons, but bottom line, I could no longer live a lie in order to live in the “truth.”
Lack of care for the less fortunate and no mental health support for friends
Burn out
Girls
Didn’t feel happy there any more and didn’t feel it was my place.
My father died
Love
PTSD and Anxiety
Name left off the list
My emotional health wasn’t good and prayed to God about what to do and He very definitely called me out of the work
Physical health issues, I just felt my continuing was untenable. Not asked to leave, I felt like I had ‘hit a wall’.
Realized the overseers/leadership is corrupt
Learning the history of the fellowship, A huge one was learning that this way originated in 1897!!
Fell in love
I left about 16 years before Bruer crisis, but the final straw for me, was the revelation of the decades old sexual abuse of Ira Hobbs. I learned that at least in 1988 when Parkers letter to Murray Keene and Garret Hughes was written regarding Ira and Kenny Wahlin, that these men knew about it. That was 20 years before he was dealt with as a worker, which happened in 2008. I had a lot of respect for Murray Keene as he was from the state I grew up in and was highly regarded. That revelation on top of so many incidents that occurred while I was in the work, destroyed my trust and faith in the ministry. I now realize that that was such a good thing. My faith was in the ministry.
I was to be with a companion who I knew was very rigid and works oriented. I couldn’t face this.
Asked to leave, was denied reinstatement after a year sabbatical leave
Mental health issues, After back to back years of emotional/psychological and spiritual abuse from a couple of companions I had a massive anxiety attack and was suicidal. I ended up needing 8 weeks in a private mental health unit and twice weekly psychotherapy for the next four years.
Fell in love and couldn’t take the communal living anymore.
tried to get back to being in the work but overseer unsupportive of me needing so start slowly
Came to the realisation that i couldn’t live depending on others who elevated workers to a level that was completely unrealistic 24/7
Sexual Abuse
It was a mutual parting.
I felt a failure in prayer. Therefore felt woefully inadequate to advise any of the friends who asked for advice about prayer.
Worker name wanted to lock me in her room in Manta Ecuador
Questioning the foundation of modern Christianity
A clear call and purpose. Deep friendships
Question 13
If you were asked or told to leave the work, can you explain why?
20 responses
Responses –
First time because I couldn’t get along with my companions -my companion also asked to leave. Was my 5th year.
So beyond depressed I couldn’t function, was getting mad at everyone, took things personally the first time/ second time I left of my own accord before I got that bad because of difficulty communicating with my coworker- I said something was white, she thought I said it was black. I realized there had to be a lot more to life than petty arguments.
I was asked to take a break because I was crying constantly and depressed and wanted to die
I refused to return to an abusive home and a situation of full-time caregiving for a sufferer of traumatic brain injury. My companion at the time told me to ask for other arrangements to be made for me as I was no longer fit for the mission we were having.
Crying all the time and couldn’t sleep
My companion and the overseer had a talk with me and informed me that they didn’t believe that I had been truly called to the work. They felt that it was best that I return home. I was struggling a lot with my health but they didn’t bring that up. I was told not to feel like I failed and that I’d given more than most. I was ashamed and did in fact feel like I failed. I let everyone believe that I’d made the choice to leave because I was ashamed of being told to leave. But looking back they did me a huge favor!
ups and downs. Lots of health issues
After returning from working in Sri Lanka because of severe health issues (both physical and mental), I was asked to leave to get a job and/or government support because they didn’t want to support my recovery anymore. At the time, I was also advocating heavily for better support for workers with mental health issues, particularly relating to CSA. I was also advocating for better ways to respond to bullying in the work, like undertaking non-violent communication courses for all the staff. This all faced strong objections. I’m not sure the exact reason I was asked to leave, but I believe it was a combination of all of these things.
I came home from Kazakhstan with PTSD and anxiety after being caught in political violence in a city. I had also had a lot of time alone in a foreign land and I had a very difficult co worker for over 12 months. When I returned home I was told to take as long as I needed to rest and recover. Then 10 months later we got a new overseer and he told me to get a job or social security because there was no more money to support me.
First, I was told very harshly that I did not have “spirit of work or truth”. The next year my name was left off the list & told I was not able.
This will be hard to keep brief. I wasn’t told that I had to leave or couldn’t be in the work, just not in the capacity that I felt called to. Myself and a sister worker had enquired about marrying and remaining in the work. Our overseer felt he needed to ask “the older brothers.” He emailed Ray Hoffmann and got a response so fast, there was absolutely no chance prayer or inquiry of the Spirit was sought, let alone any thought for our individual experience/situation. We were told if we wanted to marry we would have to leave the responsibilities of the work because, “George Walker felt there was no place for a married ministry in our fellowship.” There was nothing more to the response. No verses or doctrines shared other than George Walker’s feelings. I’ll stop with this much…so much more went into and contributed to making that decision.
I left on my own accord
I was told I could have a coworker and field if I would be silent about the abuse crisis. I refused to accept that route.
Kicked out for speaking up about bullying and covering of child sexual abuse. The overseers spun a narrative that I was mental and so many other lies, even things like – I wanted to have a career change and go and study at uni. My folks and I wrote a letter and exposed them, because I recorded the ph conversations where different overseers sacked me for different reasons.
Lack of cooperation with leadership, a mutual lack of trust
I was accused of bullying because a co-worker complained about me. I’ve never been told what the complaints were. I’ve had lots of therapy over the years and, in spite of all my character flaws, I know I’m not a bully.
I was told something like “we have spoken to all of your co-workers and older brothers and we all agree it would be best if you left the work” “consider this door closed” “get married and have a family, and you can have a useful life”
I had tried to expose some of what had been going on amongst the sister workers. I was shut down and had the tables turned on me as if I was the rebellious one who was ‘defiant and unwilling’
I took the emblems in an unsanctified home and was unrepentant. The spin was that I was mentally ill.
I had come to a place where it was best for my spiritual, mental, emotional and physical well being to leave. Best for the work too.
Question 14
How long has it been since you left the work? (Years)
74 responses
Other responses –
Too long to remember
14 months
Out since Feb 2021, although the overseer still had me as Care of Health in 2022
September 5 2019 I was kicked out
3 months (after denied re-entry)
1 year though my name was only removed from the list a month ago
Question 15
What symptoms/health issues have you experienced after leaving the work?
76 responses
Other responses –
Some of these things i was already experiencing prior to being in the work.
Pretty much a mental breakdown but when the stress was off I recovered relatively quickly.
many of these symptoms were before the work as well
Homelessness, social isolation, inability to make decisions
Broken heart
I’ve been much better since leaving the work but still struggle with my emotional health at times
Much of these were closer to time period of leaving the work. It has actually been a large relief the last 2-3 years to see the things that have come to light, and to realize that MANY have felt like I have about all I have seen!!
OCD relapse
I grieve the realization that some friendships were conditional on me being in the church. Also the respect that was freely & quickly given when I went into the work, was taken away in about as much time.
relief …
It took me a lot of unlearning and relearning how to feel safe in workplace relationships. I have largely healed from these now, however it took a lot of hard work and I was blessed with an amazing therapist and supportive friends.
many symptoms, but it is getting better I think
Nothing that i would directly relate to my (extremely) brief time in the work
Deep sadness
My life was devastating . No desire to live anymore
Question 16
How did people respond when you left the work? Did you have support?
65 responses
Responses –
My parents were very hurt, but also supportive. Someone said the reason I left was because “he thought too much.” There’s some truth in that.
Never heard from anyone. Had help from one professing family, I was very ill, stayed there 6 months till I could work. My Mom helped me get a car. My sis helped me get insurance.
not much response. maybe 5 letters. left with $2,000, which i used on therapy to “fix” myself so I could go back in the work
My family was supportive. I was mostly accepted by the friends in general.
Most of the people tried to find a way to get me back into the work. No support to create a life in society after, except from my partner.
No support.
My immediate family was supportive. I lived with some of them for a while. I had very little to zero financial support and had a lot of needs. When I left it felt like all of a sudden I was invisible and most of what I felt had been close good relationships turned out to be nothing.
No, not much. Another sister left at the same time so we talked a lot.
They were disappointed in me. But some were kind
My parents were very supportive and helped me get back on my feet. I was suicidal for months and lost a ton of weight. I heard practically nothing from the friends that I had loved so much. I felt abandoned.
Some reached out, all urging me to return to the work, I replied to a few, then nothing.
Kind but hands off
Did not have contact with anyone until a few months ago
People were disappointed, but kind and supportive. I received a lot of support from the overseer including financial support to help my transition back to normal life. My family was fully supportive.
Disappointed in me. Pity. I was offered a job by some of the friends and I worked there for a year.
I did, from my brother who had left the 2×2 a few years before and a little money from my last overseer
Many were supportive, thanks to raised awareness in 2023. Many lifetime friends have been silent.
Yes, I had support
No support. I was basically ghosted, as if I no longer existed
Only a few friends. Not workers
My family was supportive but others were talking. I felt very uncomfortable in the meetings and I ended up moving away to a different state in order to heal.
Not major negative response
Disappointment in me, pity
Complete rejection and shunning from those inside the group. A small group of people who have also left have provided emotional support and some financial support.
I was mostly treated with disinterest and was shown very little understanding or compassion or care. My parents have supported me and 2 or 3 couples stood by me. Otherwise the community all disappeared. Financially there has been very little support. And if any, mostly from overseas.
Relief by some major support by parents
No. People were very disappointed.
I had plenty of support from both the friends and the workers.
I had a surprising amount of support- mostly in the form of kindness and understanding from people. Also, my overseer gave me an unexpected sum of money. I married soon after leaving, and although neither of us had much of anything, my husband had a good job which we could live on.
Family and friends in home area did what they could
People were overall supportive with their words but very few helped in tangible ways
They were mortified. No.
We were supported by family and close friends. The ministry did virtually nothing to support the transition back to real life. An overseer offered to help if I needed it but I would have had to go ask for financing etc. I never asked and nothing was given. 1 brother worker gave me $5,000 the day I left. That was the only financial help I was given and it was out of 1 of his personal accounts.
My parents are deeply entrenched and they supported me for almost 3 years. I knew they would be there for me no matter what (in a financial sense).
Ignored me. Not supported. Felt like I no longer mattered. Family angry with me.
Some were very supportive, you learn who is your friend for who you are and who were friends with you because you were a worker
Basically zero support from the ‘friends’ or workers. Full support from family.
Being an ex worker is the lowest of the low. And you have no one to talk about it to. At least I didn’t back in the era when I left. No, I had very little support, emotionally, spiritually or financially.
I had great support – emotionally & financially
Shunned me, believed the lies of the overseers. Only a handful of people supported me, those have left the mtgs now.
A few friends and workers wrote letters saying basically get well, don’t forget your calling, we need you back. One wrote to say don’t worry about anything but getting well. I appreciated that. My family helped me out with a place to stay and a place to work. My parents never asked me one thing about what happened. My bro/sis in law were very open and supportive
I had full support of my family (none ever professed), my unprofessing friends, a few close professing friends, and a few friends who had quit the work and meetings years earlier. Really it was only two professing girlfriends who showed up for me completely and were able to see me, believe me, and honor the horror of my experience in the work. I had other friends who tried but because they were still so entangled in the system they couldn’t really show up for me fully. I felt very alone as the only worker on my staff that had left. I found support in the ex community. The reaction from the worker community was basically radio silence. No one said anything. They didn’t even acknowledge that I left. At this point, I had already been vocal with my opposition to the ministerial response to the crisis, so I think I was probably considered an enemy by then. I had one worker friend who stood by me and who has herself left in the recent months. I lost virtually all of the rest of my community. People whose homes I stayed in, who became like family, just disappeared.
Absolutely no support inside the 2×2.
No one asked why, but a few told me to just go back, be content and write letters.
Yes, I had a good bunch of friends.. I probably spent more time with them than with my family (parents,siblings)
A totally mixed bag from solid support to alienation, rejection, gaslighting
Minimal support from workers – barely heard boo from my overseer or anyone in my state – I went interstate for treatment and the overseer there gave me $5,000 to share between myself and another sister who had left the work in NSW with nothing. My father wasn’t supportive. But God placed a strong cohort of friends around me – my little fellowship meeting in Melbourne were so understanding, supportive and kind while I was healing. The friends who rescued me from my field in NSW were amazing.
I lived in a home with an amazing family with five children..was treated very kindly. Don’t remember getting a penny but find a job and enjoyed and one I liked.
People were encouraging. No financial support. Did have help in finding work.
Sad, angry. Yes I had support
Everyone was kind and very supportive
The friends were very warm. Didn’t hear much from the workers.
Support from some
I’m sure there was lots of talk, I didn’t hear much of it – my family were completely supportive but asked no questions and we have never had any conversation about it. The only other thing that stands out to me is one of the then brother workers talking to me and saying the practical arrangements I had experienced (one night here one night there) weren’t ideal for someone new to the work. He has since been removed for inappropriate relationships and use of porn.
The ‘friends’ have been lovely. The workers have kept a distance.
Varied responses, lots of judgement but I did have a good support system also.
Parents & family felt sad, people felt awkward around me, I did not have emotional support or mental support directly afterwards. I was supported financially by my parents. Small sum given by the work (2500)
A lot of encouragement to go back in. My family has been wonderful to support me during my time recovering from health issues.
No support except from my immediate family. I didn’t feel that I could talk with anyone about what went on.
CCF was my mainstay. I had help from total strangers as well as true close friends.
Yes overall.
People responded kindly. One elder employed me for 1-1/2 years doing farm work until I gained better employment.
People criticized me, judged me and treated me as a defeated woman for leaving the work.
None
Yes, lots of support from family. Quite a few people and workers still “in” have reached out.
Question 17
Have you been in therapy because of the work/church?
72 responses
For how long?
Other Responses –
8 weeks in hospital and then 4 years of 2x weekly psychotherapy appointments
After 5 yrs in the work i was admitted to the psych hospital for anorexia and suicidal ideation
Especially in more recent years as I left meetings and then have been working through the whole system being set on a false premise.
For a few months while in the work, then for a few years immediately after i left. I have relationship issues due to issues with my family of origin. I believe many problems i experienced in the work were also related to this issue that i hadn’t addressed (didn’t yet know or understand at that time.)
Have been in therapy, but the work was only an incidental motivator for seeking therapy.
I am csa survivor. In therapy for not quite a year
I have been in and out of therapy for the last 12 years because of the rape and abuse of overseer and one co worker in Colorado.
I have read a lot of books, etc abt spiritual abuse
No therapy … yet … my year sabbatical was a good bridge to civilian life again
Off and on
Off and on the past 30 years
On and off for 38 years since leaving. This motivated me to become a therapist myself.
Since my 2nd year in the work. 12 years
Only indirectly- it has been talked about in therapy as a complicating factor to other life problems.
No. I stuffed it down for so long thinking that I truly was the problem. It’s only been recently that I’ve learned others have faced similar experiences
Not because of the work/church. Therapy was forbidden by workers. But I went for therapy for 2 years and never mentioned being in the work!
didn’t have money for therapy
Question 19
Do you still attend meetings?
No- 70.6%, Yes- 14.7%, Other- 14.7%
Other Responses –
I was angry and didn’t have anything to do with meetings for decades. Within the past five years I have reconnected with some workers and relatives but would never go back as a professing person.
I do however I have left the system.
We attend Sunday morning meeting for now because of who we meet with. We’ve not been to any other form of a meeting and don’t feel drawn to do so.
Sunday morning and the occasional bible study
I haven’t really, since about 2006 …. except in the last4 years I have been caring for my elderly mother, and accompany her to meetings.
Fellowship meetings only
In a treatment for cancer so not at this time and who knows what next.
Just left mtgs. This year.
We haven’t ‘exited’ officially, but haven’t been to Sunday am in 1 year
Sometimes
Question 20
Do you still believe in the 2×2 ministry?
69 responses
No- 69.6%, Yes -2.9%, Other- 27.5%
Other Responses –
I don’t believe in exclusivity regarding Christianity. I also think other world religions have much to offer.
I never had my belief in them only in God but I no longer have any confidence in them.
Do unto others
I don’t believe in the exclusivity. I believe that there are many good people there. I believe that it could still be helpful to many, but only IF they stand up and acknowledge the wrongs and coverups and put robust practices and guidelines in place to ensure that it is not possible to repeat the coverups of the past. Other churches have done this – it is possible, if they want to do it too.
Yes and no. Not every area has handled things properly. Quite a few areas have handled things really poorly. The ministry in our area has been fine and has handled things proactively, but we are keeping a watchful eye on everything.
Still love people in the ministry. Do not believe ministry is only hope of salvation
Not in its current structure.
Kind of believe in it.
In some aspects yes, have lost respect for many of the ministers
Not as a doctrinal necessity to salvation
I don’t disregard them altogether but I no longer believe it is the only way, or that all of them are on the right track.
I believe in a ministry like Jesus called and sent
I believe there are some sincere workers but there is so much that isn’t right in the system.
I don’t believe what we have today truly represents what Christ intended the ministry to be.
I am super conflicted.
I believe in Jesus
As one way of ministering.
In theory yes, in current practice no
Most of them are liars, abusers, and supporters of the pedophiles.
Question 21
How has being in the work affected your life?
69 responses
Responses –
Better public speaking
I don’t feel I can trust ppl. This greatly impacts work and personal situations. I am a lonely woman. My friends can’t really understand.
I was very young and had very little emotional intelligence when I went in the work. The work was not a place to learn healthy relationships. I left the work less prepared than ever about emotional intelligence and relationships.
I no longer trust people, particularly those in positions of power/authority and will go far above their heads to “protect myself” from abuse when I go to them directly. In relationships and friendships I am constantly monitoring the emotional state/behavior/body language for signs of disappointment, threat, anger, or sadness. A crushing sense of responsibility for the emotional state of others, quickly assuming that any change is my fault. I’ve abandoned faith in any higher power and no longer find any use in Christianity for myself. I still have only a tenuous sense of who I am and what I truly want in life, I feel like I lost myself in the work and I’m still learning who I am outside of the work.
I’m a positive person so I’m trying to find some good in it all.
It wasn’t all bad but it definitely wasn’t what we bought into.
I could write a book about this
Financially. Almost 20 years of my peak earnings years are gone. Also, that time out of what I call the “real” work force I believe hindered my career.
I enjoyed being in the work for the most part, but was angry about being lied to about Wm Irving and peoples’ denial about it. Also I came to believe that the Bible was useful but far from infallible or inerrant. This all created a huge spiritual crisis for me. I love the meetings and the work but had to get really angry and set a hard boundary in order to not be drawn back in. It took me years to work things through and not be angry and defensive. After leaving the work I have pursued relationships and work and spiritual activities that have been very gratifying. My trauma from the work helped shape my choices since leaving.
Well, speaking from hindsight now and 35 year’s life experience, I think it has enhanced my life. Not because it was easy, but because it brought my own personal issues to a head and forced me to seek help. It also gave me insight into “worker life” and its realities. When people say stuff about the work in a glorifying way, I say, “Um, no. It’s not like that and here’s why.”
College for those waiting to go in the work was discouraged. I would have become a high school or college coach. I left twice, at about 32, was able to get a good job, was on track for a good career when I decided to go back in the work. The second time was 7 years later, I was 46, and found it very difficult to find a steady career. Really impacted my ability to save for a secure retirement. All thought and reasoning capabilities were harmed, it was difficult to step into the working world with no self esteem, no skills, no current references, no proper work attire, no understanding of the culture of the world, general business operations. And, no money, no place to live, no car, no health care, no car insurance.
set me back in life- meeting a mate in my 30’s difficult/fear of clock running out, studying and working hard to catch up financially, while also wanting to attract a partner but no time
It was harmful for mental health, but in retrospect my inside look at the system and inability of anyone in the system to provide reasonable answers regarding doctrinal questions provided the first cracks in my belief in the system.
Don’t know where to start. The work takes the most important years of your adult life.
Missed out on most of the years my nieces and nephews were growing up. Extreme disappointment in a religious system I thought followed the Bible and cared for one another .. only to be severely shocked by the wickedness.
Since the abuse occurred in the work the work has basically destroyed my life in that sense. I struggle with all the things, trust relationships self worth, realizing it is ok to take care of ones self. It has had an effect on my marriage, my children, our family. I struggle frequently with C-PTSD depression anxiety triggers dissociation exhaustion and directly related obesity to name a little.
Lost my best years and never had children.
Appreciate a home and a wife
I have low self esteem, still feel worthless at times. Haven’t been able to be successful at anything career wise. But have managed to stay together with my hubby for 32 and we have raised a fine son and he has a beautiful family.
I think about it every day. I have painful moments of memories, panic, things that trigger intense anger. I avoid anything that makes me feel trapped. I feel anger when someone tries to control me. But it also has taught me to stand up for myself. I’m learning boundaries and how to say “no.” I value and adore my husband and children because I thought I would never have my own family. I’m very organized, and obsessed with simplicity and efficiency because of having to life out of a few suitcases.
It put me behind in making a life. Life had no light to it for many years.
It has affected me both negatively and positively, but overall, it has led me to where I am today – happy with life. I try not to regret it, but to be thankful for the positive effects whilst acknowledging the negatives.
I have autoimmune diseases and arthritis and joint damage….depression, obesity….thyroid disease.
I feel like I’m 30 years behind but also I did what I did in response to the Lord working in my heart. Because of that I feel like it kept me somehow. Life is hard either way. It wasn’t all bad, but I sure wouldn’t go back
Many friends gained and lost. Starting life over with little real-world experience
Joyless
Very difficult
I wasn’t in long enough for it to have lasting effects on me. But it did open my eyes to the fact that the workers are regular, flawed humans. I saw that the ministry isn’t what the members think it is.
A chapter in the past
Hard to trust people’s motives, hard to trust people, isolate from people.
I have experienced many forms of abuse, including CSA. However, the spiritual and psychological abuse I experienced in the work was by the far the worst of all kinds of abuses and has left me scarred in the innermost part of my being. Added to this is the financial stress that will plague me for many years and will be equally as difficult to recover from.
It has affected my life in every way. It has affected where I stand financially in life. It has made safe housing difficult, it has made re education difficult because of my age. It has affected relationships. It has affected my health. I don’t know who I am and what I want to do. I feel lost often.
Every aspect of life takes a different approach. I love now the freedom to love.
I despise the work, the workers, and most friends
It has brought me closer to God and has helped me to see a lot of things more clearly.
I enjoyed the deeper connections with people, the listening, the opportunity to be focused on “big things” (God, the meaning of life, etc). But I also found it so very frustrating, because our lives felt wasted and not truly acting on faith. It takes so much more faith, courage, conviction, curiosity to live as a mother and wife and navigate finances and education and parenting and all of normal life! I grieve now over lost opportunity to get to know myself and find my path earlier in life. I also still believe in God/the Divine, and believe I experienced a genuine call to that ministry as part of my life path. So in that sense, I don’t regret it.
Lots of positives, some negatives
It was my complete identity and with so many varied experiences it shaped who I am today to a larger degree
It’s scarred me and has caused great loss, but also gave me a lot of insight and empathy for others in a “stuck” situation
Built great friendships. Gave me a basic understanding of the bible(not the kool-aid version so many have drank from the ministry).
That’s hard to answer but I go back and forth between viewing it as a positive thing overall, for reasons mentioned above, and something that robbed me of the life I could’ve had and the person I could’ve been. Overall I’ve done enough healing to ultimately see it as something that benefited me.
I think it made me a better person. Helped me to have compassion on workers who don’t make it. My spouse is also a ex worker and we have provided one unwell and one exworker an apartment. We understand their difficulties and financial situation.
The “lost years” add up, starting again at the beginning is hard
Will never be a mother and probably never be a wife
In every way. The impact cannot be underestimated.
In many ways it’s expanded my life and in other ways it’s felt like a narrow box
I am so naive about many things- financial, sexual, work life..
I got to know the Bible better, but was reading it with 2×2 glasses. It has left me with much guilt that I wasn’t able to stay in the work.
I feel profoundly and globally harmed. I’m not sure I can put into words the depth of the spiritual and emotional abuse that I experienced from living in the worker system. I completely lost my agency. I lost touch with my internal yes/no. I lost the sound of my own voice. I learned to not have needs or desires. I was entirely subsumed by “sister worker.” It was the most salient and only important part of my identity. Name no longer existed outside of sister worker. I lived for years out of alignment with some of my core values. This incongruence caused me to do some ridiculous and painful mental gymnastics in order to quench the cognitive dissonance. I lost touch with the fullness of my emotional life. I suppressed anger, fear, doubt, envy, desire, sadness because those feelings shouldn’t be indulged by a godly person. I compartmentalized many things. Celibacy was deeply harmful as I denied a basic human need and an essential part of my identity. I hid my queer identity and betrayed my own self in upholding the anti-queer doctrine of the church and not showing up fully affirming of my queer loved ones and queer people in the church. Covering my body, keeping my hair long and up, and not wearing makeup or jewelry as sister workers were expected to do led to fear of men’s lust, a lack of safety as I began to dress differently, and a betrayal of my own beliefs about body and sex positivity and my desires and values around adorning myself. Submitting to my companions and the hierarchical patriarchal system caused me to lose touch with my own desires and needs, my own boundaries and expectations, and my own assertive communication skills. Being in the work caused me to stop dreaming and hoping. I lost all financial autonomy. I gave away all of my assets, including ten years of retirement I had saved. I lost eleven years of earnings and the career advancement and exploration I would’ve experienced. I lost fifteen years of prime dating and partnering time. I lost my fertility, giving my childbearing years to the work. I didn’t get to make an unbounded choice about partnering, parenting, career, education, adventure, travel, and hobbies. I experienced profound spiritual abuse. God was weaponized to control me. I don’t feel prepared to talk more in depth about this right now, but basically everything about the Bible feels harmful to me right now. So much was twisted to manipulate and control us in order to preserve and protect the worker system and its harmful doctrine, culture, and organizational practices. Exclusivity is at the heart of much of the spiritual abuse as is the precariousness of a works based system of salvation and an angry and controlling God whose love is transactional. The basic Christian idea that we are bad, sinners in need of saving, feels at its core harmful. There is so much more to say, but I’ll just end by saying that I experienced profound identity, relational, community, and existential losses. I feel like I’ll be grieving and healing forever. I want the worker system to burn to the ground as it’s harming every single one in it.
I’ll probably never be able to retire. My prime working and saving years were spent in the work.
I went thru a decade or more of personal crisis, drank too much, was deeply angry, ranted about the church, burned a lot of bridges, but then I began to turn my attention to God and started seeking, asking, knocking and that has made all the difference. Now I want to turn around and help anyone that wants to shake free of the legalism and anger.
I feel it happened for a reason..Experiences I had then have helped me to understand things I may not otherwise have.. In other respects I believe if I hadn’t gone in the work (particularly as I was not so young) my career path and choices may have been very different. I do feel that I lost a lot of confidence in myself because of that time… which has contributed to being stagnant in my career or not able to progress as I would have liked. I am now nearing retirement age, yet due to being in the work and then marrying later in life.. have young children who I will need to support.
Overall I accept those years as constructive and important stepping stones to the eternal shore. I am not bitter, nor at this time harboring resentment or regrets.
There are both positives and negatives. I lost 7 years of financial income and superannuation, it took me ages to feel safe in relationships and trust what people said to my face …. But looking back I am grateful God brought me through and out – the whole experience although horrendous has made me a better person and given me a lot more empathy and understanding for others. I’d stall be struggling along if God hadn’t intervened and brought me out.
Learned of the corruption and saw different overseers handle things differently. Thankful for a loving and True God who knows and understands all that is going on. Trusting workers is huge for me..things were made known and sweep under the carpet and this was years ago.
Redirected me from poor choices
Made me understand how much the workers give up and how much joy they have. I wish I could have stayed in, but my digestive issues were too difficult at the time.
In many ways it’s enriched it as it was part of ‘my course’ directed by God.
Affected every aspect of my life. I am living with family, I have no assets, The things that used to bring me joy, being in mtgs are now source of great stress
I can’t believe I was that stupid. It’s not something I talk about and would avoid discussing with anyone
I have no money to buy a house or rent but I have learnt resilience and gained social skills I wouldn’t otherwise have.
It has affected my life in every way…it has actually made me the person I am today. Given me a deep care for others who have been misunderstood.
It left me with basically nothing financially, very little motivation for life, no joy, no desire to live. No purpose or direction in life
I think that it has had a positive impact on my spiritually. Though understanding my health is not able to continue, it has set me back in more ways than one as far as creating a healthy future. I do wish that I had a college degree or at least had some college.
Significantly. I see both sides of things and feel so tomorrow up inside.
It has helped me to see religion at its best. And to see that I never want to be part of a religion again.
Although I had some very difficult times I also had some incredible times too. In a myriad of ways.
It deprived me of an education and/or 10 years of productive financial improvement.
I feel destroyed, destitute, devastated. I was called antichrist, crazy, evil because I exposed Child Sexual Abuse . No desire to live after being excommunicated from meetings. This horrible experience affected my marriage and my relationship with my family.
I moved on with my life not allowing the yoke of bonds getting to hinder or control me
Question 22
What would you tell people that are thinking about going in the work?
74 responses
Responses –
Join the military.
Stop. Don’t
I don’t think that’s how God intended us to live. I don’t think workers should be allowed to start before they are about 30. There may be other ways they could share their faith, as the workers basically preach to the friends and have little contact with the world.
Don’t go! It will destroy your sense of self and slowly crush the faith that’s so strong right now. You will see humanity at its worst and cruelty masquerading as “love”.
Please Don’t.
question the so called calling you think you’re had
Only a few workers I trusted
Don’t. Just don’t. Full stop.
I’m not big on giving advice. I would be curious about a person’s experience and reason for going in the work. I would share my experience without imposing it on them.
I would say, “Would you be open to.doing a Matthew 10 study together? Let’s take a deep dive into what Jesus meant when he sent those 12 men out. It was short term, it was only to the Jews, etc., etc. Can I share some of my experiences with you?”
Don’t do it. Your mind is so programmed the voice you hear and are sure is of God you don’t realize your subconscious mind is telling you to go for whatever reason.
It was sweet when it was sweet. When it was bad it was real bad. Know that it’s OK if it gets bad and it’s not you. You are bright and shining beautiful light. Live your joy.
Take a hard look at publicly available information, not only regarding 2x2s, but other high demand groups. Trust your own feelings. When you sense wrong, it is probably wrong. Don’t let others override what you are hearing directly from God or your intuition.
If you have to leave the work, you will have a hard life. It literally disconnects you from everything normal, and it’s sometimes too late to develop your identity, healthy feeling of responsibility and to learn self respect. That influences all of your choices.
Worst thing you could ever do
Please realize there are many ways in which one can minister. It isn’t limited to being a 2×2 preacher.
Dont.
Join the military
I would caution them and tell them what they might face and experiences they might go through. And the hardships they will face when they can’t continue in the work any longer.
Please don’t go. The ministry took me as a girl that was zealous, in love with God and lost sheep, chewed me up, and spit me out broken and beaten.
Question the doctrine.
Either you will pay with your mind and health, or you will become an abuser yourself
Don’t allow yourself to be squashed. If you are being treated badly, tell somebody who can help. If you need to leave, there is a future for you. Be yourself – the aim here isn’t for you to become a clone of your companion.
Do not do it. You will lose your health and your autonomy
Be sure. Or don’t
It’s hard to tell them anything, but not to think that it has to be for life.
DON’T
It is not at all like it appears. Please know you can be right with God without the 2x2s
Don’t
DO NOT DO IT!
Don’t
Do not go. Your mental and physical health will be broken
If they are thinking about it, they are likely fully indoctrinated and won’t be easily persuaded otherwise. People have to come to this on their own. If they would have ears to hear, I would say.. Listen to your gut. Don’t ignore the warning signs or your intuition. And if you do go into the work, don’t give away all your money because you will need it if you ever get sick.
Don’t go in the work. Go and live a great life outside of the group and ministry. It will ruin you.
It’s your life and God can use it no matter where you are
Don’t go.
I had a good experience, but keep a watchful eye on everything around you. Keep up with all the sides of every current issue.
Man… this is tough. Because I believe in God, And because I know that God works with people where they are, within their cultures/paradigms, I think it’s possible that God could direct someone into this “ministry” still as part of his overarching plan for them. Part of me wants to tell them to run for the hills. But I know that I absolutely would not have been able to hear my own advice when I was so brainwashed. So I think I would tell them… Stay open, stay curious. God is bigger than the meetings. So much bigger. He’s so much bigger than Christianity. He’s everywhere. Pay attention to the voice of light and truth inside you. Stay alert for any sign of abuse of any kind, and don’t tolerate it. It is never of God, even if they make you think it is. Listen to people as deeply as you can, especially when their story doesn’t line up with the narrative. Remember that failing at what you think you’re supposed to do is sometimes exactly the right thing. And for heaven’s sake please go get a college degree and work experience first!
I would discourage it. I discouraged my grandson.
That’s a good question!
I’ve had this conversation a number of times. I discourage it, ask hard questions and share some insight into the reality of a worker. (It’s not as glamorous as it looks.
The Spirit has led you this far in life and it will continue to do so. Don’t let overseers/workers influence your perception of the Spirits leading.
Okay, you can go into the work on this condition: Wait one year and commit to meet with me once/week, read the books I tell you to, read one post on a 2×2 site every day, by a different person, and write it in a journal. Meet once/month with someone who has left, and ask them why they left. Write me a one-page summary. If you decide in a year that this is what you want to do, I will support you, shut my mouth and continue to love you – and not from afar.
Be absolutely sure you are called. Don’t go until you’ve had life experience. Warn them about sexual harassment. And about abuse from other workers and tell them they don’t need to take it.
Never been asked
I don’t know
At this point I wouldn’t tell them anything. But I would feel like sucking in my breath in a sharp intake, and feeling very sad because they have no idea what they are doing, or what is happening, or why.
Please be aware of the crisis and pray to be open to the Lord and not others’ opinions about what you should do.
Don’t
If I was in a position to be brutally honest, I would tell them not to do it.
Oh geez, where do I start… I think I would begin by asking them questions. What are they feeling? What do they think the work is? What does their calling sound like? What pressures are they feeling? What are their hopes and dreams about the work? I’ve learned in this last year and a half that you can’t convince someone of something that they aren’t ready or willing to hear. I would ask if they are interested in hearing my story. I would ask that they read and listen to the stories of the thousands of people who have been harmed emotionally, spiritually, physically, and sexually by this church. I would ask if they are interested in learning about authoritative control and influence (cults and high control religion). Of course I would encourage them not to go.
I would tell them every detail about my experience
I probably wouldn’t volunteer anything, as people have to make their own decisions. But if the conversation came up, I would ask questions. I don’t think it is that effective to tell people things, but we can try to get them to think about it themselves. Unfortunately there is so much guilt and sense of duty wrapped up in that decision, that it is a hard conversation. Also, to the church, anyone that tries to dissuade that “sacrifice” is of the devil. I think it is better to try to walk alongside people and show them the beauty of Christ.
I would encourage them to pray and have guidance from God in the matter rather than be swayed by people around them. I would perhaps encourage them to read some of the verses which bothered me whilst in the work.. the ones regarding not marrying and 1 Corinth 9 v 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife…
I would caution a young person to move slowly, delay until the fellowship is stable and avoid “Identity foreclosure” – consider well the options of life, naturally and spiritually.
I’d be honest with them, acknowledging that it is a very real calling – BUT let it be your service to God alone – have confidence in your identity in him and don’t take on board everything that others tell you – always reach out and ask for help – you are just as valuable and just as able to be used by God’s spirit as the older ones are and don’t let them tell you otherwise.
Not until the issues are made right and HONESTLY of the issues are made right.
Take lots of time. Do your research.
Go, but don’t have anything to do with existing workers or overseers
Pray, pray, and pray some more! Be sure God is truly calling you to that place. Be willing. Realize that if you are called and do go, there is more joy and peace there than you can imagine now.
Read everything that is out there. The Truth can withstand scrutiny.
I’d probably like to say “I don’t think you should.” Also Make sure you do a lot of healing work first to be sure that you aren’t going in the work for reasons like trauma response. If you feel your health going down in the work, get out while you still have some health left and you can get your life back together.
Don’t
I wouldn’t be able to talk to them.
Make sure it is God speaking to you. Do not give up the person you really are. Work with your hands first, find out about relationships, the value of friendship, experience life in the work world. Don’t rush into anything. Keep your eyes wide open and trust your gut
Do you want to be part of an evil, mentally sick group that supports abuse and pedophiles more than children? That doesn’t encourage mental stability, or overall health? Would you like to find yourself destitute in 5 years?
Make sure it’s a true calling from God. Trust him, and do all you can to stay pure of heart. Just because you’re among people who believe in God does not mean you should let your guard down. Look out for other’s souls, but more than anything protect your own soul/peace.
Don’t do it. It’s corrupt and not what you think it might be.
Follow Jesus. Live life so there are no regrets in eternity.
Don’t.
If you’re sure, Make sure you have an escape plan.
(1.) The statistics show that 60 to 70 percent of workers leave before 10 years. (2.) Given that statistic they may face difficulty in becoming self-supporting, especially if they stay in the work until they are age 40 or over. (3.) They should do a detailed study of the history of the sect before offering for the work. “Preserving the Truth” is accurate and very important reading. (4.) Only married people such as elders should be in the ministry. The government of the group should be the responsibility of a board of elected married elders.
Think twice. It’s not a SAFE place to be in.
Offer your life to God not Men
It’s OK I guess if you really feel called but don’t buy into the bullshit that you’re special above millions of other preachers
Question 23
What would you like to say to your previous overseers and coworkers?
72 responses
Responses –
Thanks. But marriage isn’t bad. Sex is good.
I still love the same ppl I always did and want the best for them like I always did.
Please consider very carefully what type of a system you are trusting in. The Bible does not support the current ministry.
Why? Why did you treat me as if I meant nothing? How can you call your conduct anything but cruelty? Your “Godly love” is a shame and a lie. Pharisees, scribes, hypocrites!!
I’m ashamed of you all.
Covering up for years & making out we were the only true right way.
Your morals are nonexistent.
Go fuck yourself
Pay me for the years you stole from me. I’ll take $10k per year for every year I was in.
I’m happy then I’m happy for you. But if you are ever curious about my choices, I’m happy to share.
I would like to say the same thing I just said to the previous question..and more. “Let’s take a deep dive into Matthew 10 and all of Acts. What did the ministry, especially to the Gentiles, look like? Let’s talk about workers being married. Many of the Apostles were married. It’s wrong and unscriptural to prohibit it. Let’s talk about the role of the whole church working together as a body of believers as they did in Acts, not in divided, hierarchical places. Let’s talk about scriptural handling of sin and crime within the church. Let’s talk about not taking an 18 or 19-year-old with zero life experience into the work. Jesus was 30! Let’s talk about the history of this fellowship. Let’s be real and transparent about that. Let’s examine some of the false doctrines and beliefs that started soon after our beginnings and that are still alive among us. Let’s rid ourselves of them! Let’s allow each other to wrestle with God and give each other room and space to work out our own salvation. Let’s acknowledge that Jesus taught us to ASK, SEEK, AND KNOCK…ALL of us, not just our “great-grandparents who first heard the Gospel!’ Let’s acknowledge there have been, are, and we will ALWAYS NEED TO IDENTIFY WOLVES AMONG US. Let’s accept and believe Jesus’s words when he said “Whosoever Believes in me will not die but will have eternal life.” LETS STOP THINKING WE HAVE THE POWER TO DETERMINE SOMEONE ELSE’S SALVATION.
Treat each other with dignity, respect, and share in an equal partnership. Really, what you’re asking and teaching is wrong and the system has resulted in abusive behavior toward young workers who learn that as the best way to train and follow that example when they have the lead and add their own brand of cruelty. Really, there is no way to regulate behavior in the work, so that just needs to be abandoned.
I told them already in a dream. What I needed was nurturing and compassion and space to grow. I felt like I was always put in a box. People made up their minds about me and didn’t give me space to grow or be different. But really what I needed was the space to be a normal human being free of shame but rather celebrated with joy.
Not at this time.
You have no idea what you do to younger people. Please, get thorough knowledge of psychology, before you attempt to change people’s lives. Develop an aftercare program, and make sure everything is based on ‘informed consent’ and age appropriate.
I’m an adult, stop controlling me. Live and let live. You hypocrites.
To the ones who saw the value of my soul and treated me the way one should I love you and am thankful for you. For the ones who abused me, retraumatized me, didn’t support validate and hear me and left me by the wayside… I don’t even know where to begin. You are miserable human beings who truly have no understanding of Christ and God, you are Wolves and you do not have the heart of a Shepherd.
Actually practice what you preach and dont treat others as your slaves. We are all worth the same and deserve to be treated as such and listened to and respected.
Chill out
Lots of things. But they will never listen. They are deceived.
You destroyed me. You have hurt innocent little ones, children and young adults. You are the greatest evil that you fear. To the coworkers that were kind and loving, I love you and will always be grateful for you. To my coworkers that were abusive, you didn’t mean to hurt me, but you did. You learned abuse and you deal it out to every companion you are with.
To the overseers, why do you let abusive companions stay in the work, to ruin your young workers? You are so desperate for more workers, but you are destroying them. Look in the mirror.
Examine your doctrine and insure you have good reason to believe what you believe.
Overseers- go fuck yourselves. Not all coworkers, but most- you are dishonest, self righteous hypocrites.
Both – Thank you for helping me have a largely good experience in the work.
Overseers – Please do whatever it takes to keep children and young workers (actually all workers and all friends) safe. We don’t read of legal marriage in the Bible, yet it is expected within the church because that’s how society recognises marriage now. Society requires that churches now be registered and put systems in place to try to prevent abuse, recognise it when it happens and deal with it. It is for everybody’s good – please act wisely. Be true, for there are those who trust you – inside and outside.
Previous companions – open your eyes. Speak out when you see something happening that shouldn’t. If you’re happy in the work, stay. If you’re not, you can leave. There is a future.
Nothing….they are blind as bats
Find Jesus and make your life about Him.
You’re wrong
Nothing. They would not listen or care.
Fuck off!!!
I did tell them. Before I realized the doctrinal issues, I told them the culture of the work is toxic
You have no business leading others. You caused and continue to cause so much harm to others. You need to step down and take accountability for all the pain and suffering that so many have endured.
The whole system is a fraud
Shame on you
May you be well. May you know true peace. May you be free.
To the overseer: You have no idea the harm you have caused in the decisions you have made for my life. You have no compassion or spirit of christ. You don’t understand women and you don’t want to understand or listen. You are a bully and you are a disgrace to humanity.
Coworkers: You are a gutless group of men and women and I’m ashamed to ever have called you my friends.
Learn to love as Christ loved
Fuck you!
The individual who was the overseer while I was in the work has since passed away. I do know he was one that was reported to be an overseer who covered up issues. I’m not quite sure what I would say to him as he was older and probably wouldn’t listen anyway. I had some pretty great coworkers who I would hope would listen to reality.
To my overseer, I’m so deeply disappointed in you.
To my coworkers, many of you were kind, but all of you shut down my curiosity, my passion and my questions in different ways. I know you shut yourself down too. I know that was survival. I know that it’s what you do to stay in the system, and that leaving is so terrifying. We all gaslight ourselves in prayer, “dying to self” and any thought or desire outside the prescribed worker life. But I wish for you the courage to actually start listening to your own questions. To start deeply listening to others. If what you believe is true, then honest questions can only lead you closer to the truth. There is nothing to fear.
Saying anything would probably be useless, but I would tell them the truth about my experience.
There are lots of things I would love to say but unless they are open to seeing it, it would do no good. It’s all about Christ and I would like to tell them to read Preserving the Truth for a start.
Get it together. Take it down a notch. Stop lying. Educate yourself. What were you thinking? Apologize. Stop being a dependent. Say thank you. Do the dishes. Wash the sheets.
To the overseers: Seek the Spirit and forget the other overseers. Run your own staff without having to ask “the older brothers” if you should make a decision.
To the coworkers: Don’t lose touch with reality. Care for people. Life in the work is a bubble that is disconnected from real life. Don’t pretend to think it isn’t.
Thank you and Fuck you 😆💛
You better get with the times and deal with csa. That abuse of any kind is intolerable in a fellowship that is supposed to be all about love.
Wake up! Look at nature and see there is no “only” way to do anything! But they are enjoying their dream of being God’s “only” true servants too much and they get very annoyed if you do anything that might threaten to wake them up
Would rather not talk much to most of them
Overseers: You dishonest and guileful men. Coworkers: You are unable to truly care because you have so much fear in you, rather than love. I pity you, I care for you, I pray for you, I am so sad for you. You are so blind. It is heartbreaking.
Be open to truly loving, esteeming & serving Jesus above any religious form or system.
You’re all liars, abusers, hypocrites and enablers. I hope you wake up and repent one day.
I would ask them how much they really knew about, or participated in, the abuse in the fellowship. For instance, at what point did Dean Bruer become such an evil person? I would ask him if he was abusing others the year we were in the work together, right under my nose. If not, when did the abuse start? I would tell them that becoming an overseer is pretty much selling your soul to the devil.
This is tricky. It feels impossible to speak about the profound harm of the system to people still completely invested in preserving and protecting the system. I tried once with a former companion who told me she still loved me but she didn’t love what I was doing. That she was greatly disappointed in all of my efforts to work against them. This is what I wrote: Dear “worker name, oh worker name. I am not working against you. But I must act in service of truth– I can’t compartmentalize any more and pretend this church isn’t incredibly harmful to mind, body, spirit, and soul. I loved and love the people dearly. Tremendous harm has come to thousands of beloved people, myself included, because of the doctrine, culture, and organizational practices of the church. Despite what has come to light this year, much of the harmful teachings and practices continue. People continue to suffer the devastating consequences of emotional, spiritual, and physical abuse. I feel I must continue to tell the truth about that as I see it.
Don’t hide anything, and tell the truth. I also would tell them to read “The Church of TOV”, and go to seminary and learn true theology.
I think of all the brave people who have reached out to overseers and workers and tried to help them see their fallacy and have failed, so a part of me says “I have nothing to say to you”. But on the other hand if they open up a door or if an opportunity would arise, I would definitely take it. I am not sure what I would say to them, I would just try to be ready, but I would like to ask them who Jesus is to them. I would like to ask them if they think they put themselves between the people and Jesus and why they do that.
I would like to have the strength to tell others why I left.. I have told very few people. I have 2 siblings who were in the work at same time as myself and still are. I do feel frustrated as I feel those around me do not see as I do.. I believe that some of them feel they need to be the way they are.. but I know that is not right… not of God. I would like to know how to be able to present that..
I have tried to speak with some of those currently still holding office and been disappointed in their refusal to consider necessary examination of doctrine, behavior and structure of the ministry. I have decided to not pursue any further discussion as it is beginning to trigger adverse feelings for myself. Everyone is at a different stage of awareness and willingness and might I say ‘honesty’. Both ministry and congregation need to work through this difficult journey prayerfully, scripturally and sincerely.
Belief without action is as good as unbelief.
I firmly believe the movement started with the right intentions however legalism and hierarchy have risen up and defiled the leadership of the church. This was never established by Christ. You need to seriously re-examine some of these things and repent for any harm or damage caused. Most of all you need to move to protect the vulnerable and step up as leaders to eradicate bullying, harassment and other forms of abuse from the ministry. Build each other up rather than tearing each other down.
Too much to write here.
I wish you would make honest decisions like you told me to do.
I love you all! Thank you for all you did to help and encourage me.
Be honest and do what God tells you to do despite your fears. He will provide a way where there is no way!
God would not have set up a ministry that totally wrecks people’s lives and health so that means that what we have as a ministry now is not aligned with what God intended.
Listen.
So many, many things but what would be the point? They won’t listen and they’re not prepared to take responsibility for their own behaviour.
I know you don’t understand how I have arrived at the place I am now. Someday you might find yourself at a crossroads and you might come to the same conclusions as I have come to. Jesus is the way. The Truth can set you free. I’m still a little bit hurt but I’m a lot more free. I actually don’t want to have any conversation with previous overseers, I am thankful that I don’t need to say anything to any of them. I am thankful for my new life…so much to be grateful for.
Please leave the work and go to therapy. God wants you to have full Joy. The life you are living is full of human sacrifice that God never asked for. God’s love for you is written everywhere in the Bible and requiring sacrifice is not God’s love. Accept the simple gift of salvation from Jesus. Requiring yourself to “deny self” excessively is not fruit of the spirit. It is a fruit of not accepting true Grace and Salvation from God. This is of the Devil, not of God.
Thank you for supporting me and standing up for me when it came to my celiac disease. All 4 of my coworkers took it upon themselves to help watch for gluten contamination in peoples homes. They were encouraging, and they let me rest when I needed to. In the end I’m grateful that my overseer allowed me to make the choice to withdraw from the work instead of asking me to step down even when my health was so bad. Though at the time I wish he had not left my name on the list for so long after quitting. Though it did give me time to work things out for myself quietly if I were to offer again. I was glad for the staff I was on that had people who encouraged taking care of mental health. This is my experience, I’m sure it’s not perfect for everyone. Coming out of the work, has definitely caused some identity crisis. This is because when you go you give up “yourself” to share something greater. When you get out you have to rebuild and find yourself again. So that you can make decisions etc. It feels like a baby deer getting up to walk for the 1st time. I feel like there have been lower lows since exiting the work. It will take a long time to rebuild.
I’d really like to write a letter and I’ve tried numerous times. I just can’t seem to get the words out. Thanks for making me feel like a useless piece of trash who wasn’t worthy of being cared for or loved or respected in any way. I was never good enough to fit into what you set out as the perfect mold, and not sure why I even tried. Thanks to the overseer for stuffing so many problems under the rug and adding to the creation of this horrendous mess. People talk about the laborers being few but I wonder if they’ve considered the real reason….
Follow Jesus. Live life so there are no regrets in eternity.
It varies from individual to individual too much to generalize.
The current system of homeless, itinerant workers and overseers is by it’s nature spiritually and emotionally abusive.
Liars : You cover up for so long pedophiles. Cowards : Not allowing women to TALK and didn’t believe them, Don’t believe the victims either. Criminals: raping children in Ecuador and all over the world. Abusers: Forcing young girls and women to take antidepressant pills, against their will. Nothing is hid
It’s OK I guess if you really feel called but don’t buy into the bullshit that you’re special above millions of other preachers.
WINGS for Truth 