WINGS Note: A support group on social media recently published the results of a survey they conducted of ex-workers. They tried to leave responses as unedited as possible but removed some details (years and names) to preserve anonymity for the submitters. The data shared is not to reduce the trauma to numbers, but to show recurring themes/issues.
WINGS publishes this survey for its references and relevance to Child Sexual Abuse.
Warning:- topics of abuse, suicide, the Bible, religion, profanity
Question 1
Did you feel a “calling” to go in the work?
68 responses
Other Responses-
- I thought I did
- I felt that I should help and in a way that I was “called”
- I wrestled for clarity and finally felt like “the need” was the call
- I felt a calling to ministry…..at that time the only option i saw was the work.
- I felt compelled because of the great need
- At the time I did, but it is something that I have tried to understand why, as I clearly saw the fallacy of the ministry.
- I made up reasons for me to go….no real calling
- Yes, but also pressure/guilt
- At the time I felt like it was a calling. Now I think it was more of pressure from around and being groomed from a young age.
Question 2
How old were you when you offered for the work?
67 responses
How long did you wait?
Other responses-
- 20, then retracted offer, then offered again at 21, worked to pay off loans and went in work 9 mos later
- 20, but I withdrew my offer for 4 years
- 12 when I knew I was called, offered 17, waited 2 years.
- 21, I waited one year
Question 3
How old were you when you started in the work?
76 responses
Other responses –
- 25. But I offered at 20 so my life was impacted from that point on. Girls in my state had to wait a long time.
- 21 year old child
Question 4
How much education did you have before starting?
76 responses
Other responses –
- TAFE education (technical college) and partial bachelor’s degree
- 3 year graduate of nursing school with RN (registered nurse)
- 24 month X-ray program
- College Diploma
- Certificate 3 (after completing high school)
Question 5
How much education did you complete after leaving the work?
60 responses
Other responses –
- Refresher courses by Microsoft in computer use, some programs
- Master’s degree in progress
- Currently completing a bachelor’s degree
- Have applied for a masters degree
- Mentored by caring parents and friends
- Applying to grad school now
- Commercial pilot ratings to fly for the airlines.
- Re-entered the Physician Assistant profession
- I took some independent study classes in Art History, then with one of my jobs I took a course in Tourism Marketing.
- Bachelor’s Degree in progress
- Trade school, bachelor’s degree
- Attempted to study but was not able to concentrate. Have completed various work related technical and IT related courses for my work.
- Certificate 3 (TAFE)
- I got my 5th year of education
- None, health recovery
- None. At 59 it was too late to start again
Question 6
What years were you in the work and where?
65 responses
Years removed for anonymity
- AL/MS, MI/AR, CO/UT
- Australia
- Australia (Queensland, South Australia) and PNG
- Australia, Hungary, Germany, Austria
- BC, AB, Yukon, Maritimes (Canada)
- CA & AZ
- CA, AZ
- CA, AZ, HI
- CA/AZ/HI/MX/China
- Calgary
- CO, UT and MN (USA)
- Eastern Canada
- Ecuador
- IL, WI, NC & FL
- Ireland, Romania and Serbia
- Kansas
- Manitoba, Canada and Chile, South America
- Manitoba/Saskatchewan
- MI, WI, IA, CO (USA)
- midwestern USA
- MN, SD, Nicaragua
- MO, AR, IL (USA)
- MT, WA, Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka
- NE/KS, CO/UT, Finland
- Netherlands, Belgium, France, Suriname, Aruba, Curaçao
- New Mexico
- NSW Australia
- OH, WV, IN
- OR
- PA
- PA, LA, MD, DE, GA, Ecuador
- Queensland Australia
- Queensland, AU; Sri Lanka
- Queensland, Australia and Kazakhstan
- Saskatchewan
- Saskatchewan, Canada & Sweden
- Scotland
- Sweden, Finland, Canada
- Texas
- Texas & Louisiana
- TX/ OK, CO
- USA and Canada
- VA, MD, DE, PA, NC (USA)
- WA
- WA
- WA
- WA
- WA
- WA, CA/AZ, Mexico
- WA, ID, AK
- WA, WI, MT
- Washington state
- West coast of US and Mexico
- WY, MT, OR
Question 7
How many years were you in the work total?
75 responses
Other Responses:
- 12 because i rested/doctored for 5 yrs in the middle
- 16 but i rested/doctored for 4 yrs
- 5, but with 1.5 years resting in the middle
- 26 plus a couple years resting with the intending to get back
- 3 months
- 9 months
Question 8
Did you experience abuse from your companions or coworkers?
76 responses
Yes- 68.8%, No- 19.5%, Other- 11.7%
Other responses –
- Not really. Some of my companions were pretty wounded and emotionally immature but none did anything toward me that I view as abuse.
- It is different for everyone. In my situation and experience in the work, abuse is too strong of a word. I”ve faced similar situations in my post-in-the-work life too. It’s sometimes about the other person, and sometimes about me and how I take it. I had a lot of unrealistic expectations about workers and the work..
- Now that I look back on it, so much of the system was abusive, and of course my companions upheld the mindset of the system, as did I. But I don’t remember specific abuse from companions.
- A continuation of conditioning.
- I think, but it’s hard to understand what dictates emotional abuse
- Non physical – mental or psychological
- Nothing more than the ongoing emotional manipulation that was present growing up in the 2x2s
- I was drug by worker name for 8 years and by worker name
Question 9
What kind of abuse?
65 responses
Additional responses –
- I now think the theology is quite limiting and thus there was some spiritual abuse, but none directed only at me
- But I didn’t know what spiritual abuse was till recently.
- Labour trafficking
- Sexual grooming from friends in a field
- As previous question, nothing over and above the ‘norm’
- Lack of transparency regarding the origins of the sect.
- Infantilization.
- Sexual power abuse from older brothers
Another look at the types of abuse-
Question 10
What symptoms/health issues did you experience in the work?
75 responses
Additional responses –
- I refused to manufacture a health crisis as an excuse to leave, and I am remarkably healthy.
- Insomnia (2 responses)
- Shaky, holes in skin, sleeping problems, problems with focus/concentration
- Wanted to die everyday
- Severe menstrual problems, anaemia
- PTSD diagnosis
- I had some of those symptoms before the work, so I don’t want to say they all came from the work
- Asthma symptoms escalated requiring medical attention
- Low self esteem, guilt
- Top 10 percent for heart disease
- I was forced against my will to take antidepressant pills.
Question 11
What positives did you experience in the work?
70 responses
- Travel, friends.
- Met lots of amazing friends and experienced several foreign cultures and learned languages
- Connection with people where they were, a sense of belonging and purpose, travel to places I would likely have never gone otherwise
- Learned a lot about myself & life.
- Fellowship w the friends
- I Learned to like a lot of diff foods. Cultural consciousness and diplomacy.
- I had many friendships and positive experiences in the work.
- 1. I saw some truly giving their lives for others. 2. I learned that some people are immature no matter their age. 3. I learned that I must speak up for my needs. 4. I felt loved by the people.
- The friends, several great companions, all disappeared when I left the work
- Community, surrounded by people who regarded me highly, felt supported and admired
- Relationships with people who hosted us, personal growth, more open mind toward future careers, and early questions about the 2×2 system (retrospectively).
- I felt very much it was my place, so no responsibility to plan my life. I really liked to give my life for the friends and loved to recruit. It felt like the only right thing to do.
- I did get much closer to God and I learned a whole lot about what the Bible says.
- I had many good experiences and connections with people while in the work aside from the horrific abuse.
- Close friendships, deep experiences
- Travel
- Drew nearer to God
- Felt so loved, fun times at preps with my worker friends, I loved the people so much, it was amazing feeling so welcome in many homes, one companion taught me how to be practical and take care of myself.
- A sense of rightness, belonging, and discovering a love of deep connections with people, meeting them where they are.
- I met many wonderful human beings and I learned a lot about myself.
- Loved some of the people and travel
- Friendships, some of which are still ongoing; learned different cultures and languages in different cultures; community feeling; learned about the importance of good communication in relationships;
- Spent more time reading my bible
- I met some wonderful people and had some wonderful coworkers
- Friendships, laughter
- I spent lots of time reading my Bible which was good. I met a lot of nice friends/saints
- Hard to find any
- None
- Good social life
- Community and purpose
- I got to go to places overseas I might not have ever visited. Community and networks.
- Freedom from needs. Watching God working in spite of me
- I loved most the friends
- I saw so much love from the friends. I also learned so much about scripture.
- Being cared for and made to feel special by friends, the existential sense of “giving my all” and “being in God’s will”, the sense of camaraderie with other workers especially at preps time, and the occasional high of a convention or meeting messages feeling especially inspired.
- Love, many life skills that served me well later
- I had many wonderful experiences getting to know so many wonderful people and traveling. I enjoyed the different cultures I experienced and learning languages.
- I loved preparing for meeting (alone time – yay!) and I loved meeting awesome people
- Fellowship with the friends. Fellowship with fellow workers. Friendships that will last a lifetime.
- Loving on people is a beautiful thing, life experience, another language, lots of practice in public speaking, learning that I will give absolutely everything for something I believe in, it made me a more interesting person, it helped me to leave meetings and start my healing journey to my beautiful self. And so much more, really…
- Met wonderful people. Friends were so kind.
- Met some great people and learned how to speak in front of an audience
- The kindness from the friends
- Time to study the Bible, learn about God. Proof of God’s care/love for me.
- A deep relationship with the Lord, becoming familiar with the bible
- Not a whole lot. Probably the fact I got to be in other countries and experience other cultures but it was always tainted by the control and psychological abuse.
- Being mostly sheltered from “the world.” Friends were kind and generous.
- This is tricky because many of the positives are also wrapped up in all of the cult conditioning. I had meaningful and robust relationships with my coworkers and the friends. I had a profound sense of purpose and meaning. I had a way to make sense of the world and my place in it. While I was in the work, I felt deeply that I was doing what I was meant to be doing. I felt a connection to “God” that helped me everyday of my life. I felt ease and joy in my life. I loved being available to love people. At the time, I loved seeking to embody the compassion and care of “Jesus,” though everything about the Bible is pretty tricky for me right now. While I was upholding the culture and doctrine of the cult, I had a beautiful and robust community. I was loved and adored (probably worshipped too). I had this perfect little package of certainty and security until it all broke.
- Learned how to deal with lots of personalities, had lots of time to read the Bible, and some awesome friendships were made
- People were kind to me, generous and shared what they had. I got to know them and see the inside of their life. Sometimes I got to see the real person, and that was nice. I appreciated the time I was given to read and pray, because I did that. I do believe that I had a connection with God, that had nothing to do with where I was and the “sacrifice” I was making.
- I got to know a lot of people who I appreciate to this day. Some fellow workers and also some friends.
- I believe my years in the ministry were important, formative, spiritual development.
- There were a lot of positives. I loved our friends, visiting among them, sharing the gospel – having Bible studies with new Christians – meeting local people in the communities I visited – sitting with the elderly as they passed… I did enjoy the fellowship among the workers at preps.
- I enjoyed the people but seeing things I knew wasn’t right caused great concern
- Met lots of people. Many experiences. Lots of encouragement.
- Maturity, consideration, integrity
- Love and kindness from so many people
- The people.
- friendships, joy, satisfaction but some of the things that seemed positive now seem to be an illusion. because some friendships I thought I had have disappeared. I thought I had Satisfaction in serving God in a ministry that was aligned with Jesus teaching, now has turned to shame in what turns out to be a ministry full of dishonesty
- Peace, feeling all was well between God and I.
- I got to know God and Jesus better. Connected with some special people. I did develop a love for souls.
- Learned people skills, public speaking skills, confidence in biblical ideas, learned a lot about the Bible.
- So many! It was wonderful to witness 1st hand God’s work in others lives as well as mine own. I made lots of genuine friends and met lots of wonderful people. I was amazed that God could put a genuine love in my heart for so many souls and vise versa. I am not much for public speaking, but I was amazed to feel his spirit giving me strength to share his word. Amazed to see his hand guiding us to places we hadn’t thought to go, and aligning the path to intersect with others searching for something to feed their soul. I learned so much.
- Approval at the time from the friends. After I left the work I was treated like gum on the bottom of a shoe
- Too many to enumerate
- The tremendous opportunity to study and learn more about Jesus
- Networking, human connection
- enjoyed convention preps; enjoyed several large tent-making projects in WA, CA, MT & Canada
- None
- Love for God’s word and serving others
- A clear call and purpose. Deep friendships
Question 12
Why did you leave the work?
77 responses
(…Learning the history of the fellowship)
Other responses –
- Wanted a wife
- I really didn’t feel i had been called, and God opened a door for me in a very obvious way
- I’m gay. There are other incidental reasons, but bottom line, I could no longer live a lie in order to live in the “truth.”
- Lack of care for the less fortunate and no mental health support for friends
- Burn out
- Girls
- Didn’t feel happy there any more and didn’t feel it was my place.
- My father died
- Love
- PTSD and Anxiety
- Name left off the list
- My emotional health wasn’t good and prayed to God about what to do and He very definitely called me out of the work
- Physical health issues, I just felt my continuing was untenable. Not asked to leave, I felt like I had ‘hit a wall’.
- Realized the overseers/leadership is corrupt
- Learning the history of the fellowship, A huge one was learning that this way originated in 1897!!
- Fell in love
- I left about 16 years before Bruer crisis, but the final straw for me, was the revelation of the decades old sexual abuse of Ira Hobbs. I learned that at least in 1988 when Parkers letter to Murray Keene and Garret Hughes was written regarding Ira and Kenny Wahlin, that these men knew about it. That was 20 years before he was dealt with as a worker, which happened in 2008. I had a lot of respect for Murray Keene as he was from the state I grew up in and was highly regarded. That revelation on top of so many incidents that occurred while I was in the work, destroyed my trust and faith in the ministry. I now realize that that was such a good thing. My faith was in the ministry.
- I was to be with a companion who I knew was very rigid and works oriented. I couldn’t face this.
- Asked to leave, was denied reinstatement after a year sabbatical leave
- Mental health issues, After back to back years of emotional/psychological and spiritual abuse from a couple of companions I had a massive anxiety attack and was suicidal. I ended up needing 8 weeks in a private mental health unit and twice weekly psychotherapy for the next four years.
- Fell in love and couldn’t take the communal living anymore.
- tried to get back to being in the work but overseer unsupportive of me needing so start slowly
- Came to the realisation that i couldn’t live depending on others who elevated workers to a level that was completely unrealistic 24/7
- Sexual Abuse
- It was a mutual parting.
- I felt a failure in prayer. Therefore felt woefully inadequate to advise any of the friends who asked for advice about prayer.
- Worker name wanted to lock me in her room in Manta Ecuador
- Questioning the foundation of modern Christianity
- A clear call and purpose. Deep friendships
Question 13
If you were asked or told to leave the work, can you explain why?
20 responses
Responses –
- First time because I couldn’t get along with my companions -my companion also asked to leave. Was my 5th year.
- So beyond depressed I couldn’t function, was getting mad at everyone, took things personally the first time/ second time I left of my own accord before I got that bad because of difficulty communicating with my coworker- I said something was white, she thought I said it was black. I realized there had to be a lot more to life than petty arguments.
- I was asked to take a break because I was crying constantly and depressed and wanted to die
- I refused to return to an abusive home and a situation of full-time caregiving for a sufferer of traumatic brain injury. My companion at the time told me to ask for other arrangements to be made for me as I was no longer fit for the mission we were having.
- Crying all the time and couldn’t sleep
- My companion and the overseer had a talk with me and informed me that they didn’t believe that I had been truly called to the work. They felt that it was best that I return home. I was struggling a lot with my health but they didn’t bring that up. I was told not to feel like I failed and that I’d given more than most. I was ashamed and did in fact feel like I failed. I let everyone believe that I’d made the choice to leave because I was ashamed of being told to leave. But looking back they did me a huge favor!
- ups and downs. Lots of health issues
- After returning from working in Sri Lanka because of severe health issues (both physical and mental), I was asked to leave to get a job and/or government support because they didn’t want to support my recovery anymore. At the time, I was also advocating heavily for better support for workers with mental health issues, particularly relating to CSA. I was also advocating for better ways to respond to bullying in the work, like undertaking non-violent communication courses for all the staff. This all faced strong objections. I’m not sure the exact reason I was asked to leave, but I believe it was a combination of all of these things.
- I came home from Kazakhstan with PTSD and anxiety after being caught in political violence in a city. I had also had a lot of time alone in a foreign land and I had a very difficult co worker for over 12 months. When I returned home I was told to take as long as I needed to rest and recover. Then 10 months later we got a new overseer and he told me to get a job or social security because there was no more money to support me.
- First, I was told very harshly that I did not have “spirit of work or truth”. The next year my name was left off the list & told I was not able.
- This will be hard to keep brief. I wasn’t told that I had to leave or couldn’t be in the work, just not in the capacity that I felt called to. Myself and a sister worker had enquired about marrying and remaining in the work. Our overseer felt he needed to ask “the older brothers.” He emailed Ray Hoffmann and got a response so fast, there was absolutely no chance prayer or inquiry of the Spirit was sought, let alone any thought for our individual experience/situation. We were told if we wanted to marry we would have to leave the responsibilities of the work because, “George Walker felt there was no place for a married ministry in our fellowship.” There was nothing more to the response. No verses or doctrines shared other than George Walker’s feelings. I’ll stop with this much…so much more went into and contributed to making that decision.
- I left on my own accord
- I was told I could have a coworker and field if I would be silent about the abuse crisis. I refused to accept that route.
- Kicked out for speaking up about bullying and covering of child sexual abuse. The overseers spun a narrative that I was mental and so many other lies, even things like – I wanted to have a career change and go and study at uni. My folks and I wrote a letter and exposed them, because I recorded the ph conversations where different overseers sacked me for different reasons.
- Lack of cooperation with leadership, a mutual lack of trust
- I was accused of bullying because a co-worker complained about me. I’ve never been told what the complaints were. I’ve had lots of therapy over the years and, in spite of all my character flaws, I know I’m not a bully.
- I was told something like “we have spoken to all of your co-workers and older brothers and we all agree it would be best if you left the work” “consider this door closed” “get married and have a family, and you can have a useful life”
- I had tried to expose some of what had been going on amongst the sister workers. I was shut down and had the tables turned on me as if I was the rebellious one who was ‘defiant and unwilling’
- I took the emblems in an unsanctified home and was unrepentant. The spin was that I was mentally ill.
- I had come to a place where it was best for my spiritual, mental, emotional and physical well being to leave. Best for the work too.
Question 14
How long has it been since you left the work? (Years)
74 responses
Other responses –
- Too long to remember
- 14 months
- Out since Feb 2021, although the overseer still had me as Care of Health in 2022
- September 5 2019 I was kicked out
- 3 months (after denied re-entry)
- 1 year though my name was only removed from the list a month ago
Question 15
What symptoms/health issues have you experienced after leaving the work?
76 responses
Other responses –
- Some of these things i was already experiencing prior to being in the work.
- Pretty much a mental breakdown but when the stress was off I recovered relatively quickly.
- many of these symptoms were before the work as well
- Homelessness, social isolation, inability to make decisions
- Broken heart
- I’ve been much better since leaving the work but still struggle with my emotional health at times
- Much of these were closer to time period of leaving the work. It has actually been a large relief the last 2-3 years to see the things that have come to light, and to realize that MANY have felt like I have about all I have seen!!
- OCD relapse
- I grieve the realization that some friendships were conditional on me being in the church. Also the respect that was freely & quickly given when I went into the work, was taken away in about as much time.
- relief …
- It took me a lot of unlearning and relearning how to feel safe in workplace relationships. I have largely healed from these now, however it took a lot of hard work and I was blessed with an amazing therapist and supportive friends.
- many symptoms, but it is getting better I think
- Nothing that i would directly relate to my (extremely) brief time in the work
- Deep sadness
- My life was devastating . No desire to live anymore
Question 16
How did people respond when you left the work? Did you have support?
65 responses
Responses –
- My parents were very hurt, but also supportive. Someone said the reason I left was because “he thought too much.” There’s some truth in that.
- Never heard from anyone. Had help from one professing family, I was very ill, stayed there 6 months till I could work. My Mom helped me get a car. My sis helped me get insurance.
- not much response. maybe 5 letters. left with $2,000, which i used on therapy to “fix” myself so I could go back in the work
- My family was supportive. I was mostly accepted by the friends in general.
- Most of the people tried to find a way to get me back into the work. No support to create a life in society after, except from my partner.
- No support.
- My immediate family was supportive. I lived with some of them for a while. I had very little to zero financial support and had a lot of needs. When I left it felt like all of a sudden I was invisible and most of what I felt had been close good relationships turned out to be nothing.
- No, not much. Another sister left at the same time so we talked a lot.
- They were disappointed in me. But some were kind
- My parents were very supportive and helped me get back on my feet. I was suicidal for months and lost a ton of weight. I heard practically nothing from the friends that I had loved so much. I felt abandoned.
- Some reached out, all urging me to return to the work, I replied to a few, then nothing.
- Kind but hands off
- Did not have contact with anyone until a few months ago
- People were disappointed, but kind and supportive. I received a lot of support from the overseer including financial support to help my transition back to normal life. My family was fully supportive.
- Disappointed in me. Pity. I was offered a job by some of the friends and I worked there for a year.
- I did, from my brother who had left the 2×2 a few years before and a little money from my last overseer
- Many were supportive, thanks to raised awareness in 2023. Many lifetime friends have been silent.
- Yes, I had support
- No support. I was basically ghosted, as if I no longer existed
- Only a few friends. Not workers
- My family was supportive but others were talking. I felt very uncomfortable in the meetings and I ended up moving away to a different state in order to heal.
- Not major negative response
- Disappointment in me, pity
- Complete rejection and shunning from those inside the group. A small group of people who have also left have provided emotional support and some financial support.
- I was mostly treated with disinterest and was shown very little understanding or compassion or care. My parents have supported me and 2 or 3 couples stood by me. Otherwise the community all disappeared. Financially there has been very little support. And if any, mostly from overseas.
- Relief by some major support by parents
- No. People were very disappointed.
- I had plenty of support from both the friends and the workers.
- I had a surprising amount of support- mostly in the form of kindness and understanding from people. Also, my overseer gave me an unexpected sum of money. I married soon after leaving, and although neither of us had much of anything, my husband had a good job which we could live on.
- Family and friends in home area did what they could
- People were overall supportive with their words but very few helped in tangible ways
- They were mortified. No.
- We were supported by family and close friends. The ministry did virtually nothing to support the transition back to real life. An overseer offered to help if I needed it but I would have had to go ask for financing etc. I never asked and nothing was given. 1 brother worker gave me $5,000 the day I left. That was the only financial help I was given and it was out of 1 of his personal accounts.
- My parents are deeply entrenched and they supported me for almost 3 years. I knew they would be there for me no matter what (in a financial sense).
- Ignored me. Not supported. Felt like I no longer mattered. Family angry with me.
- Some were very supportive, you learn who is your friend for who you are and who were friends with you because you were a worker
- Basically zero support from the ‘friends’ or workers. Full support from family.
- Being an ex worker is the lowest of the low. And you have no one to talk about it to. At least I didn’t back in the era when I left. No, I had very little support, emotionally, spiritually or financially.
- I had great support – emotionally & financially
- Shunned me, believed the lies of the overseers. Only a handful of people supported me, those have left the mtgs now.
- A few friends and workers wrote letters saying basically get well, don’t forget your calling, we need you back. One wrote to say don’t worry about anything but getting well. I appreciated that. My family helped me out with a place to stay and a place to work. My parents never asked me one thing about what happened. My bro/sis in law were very open and supportive
- I had full support of my family (none ever professed), my unprofessing friends, a few close professing friends, and a few friends who had quit the work and meetings years earlier. Really it was only two professing girlfriends who showed up for me completely and were able to see me, believe me, and honor the horror of my experience in the work. I had other friends who tried but because they were still so entangled in the system they couldn’t really show up for me fully. I felt very alone as the only worker on my staff that had left. I found support in the ex community. The reaction from the worker community was basically radio silence. No one said anything. They didn’t even acknowledge that I left. At this point, I had already been vocal with my opposition to the ministerial response to the crisis, so I think I was probably considered an enemy by then. I had one worker friend who stood by me and who has herself left in the recent months. I lost virtually all of the rest of my community. People whose homes I stayed in, who became like family, just disappeared.
- Absolutely no support inside the 2×2.
- No one asked why, but a few told me to just go back, be content and write letters.
- Yes, I had a good bunch of friends.. I probably spent more time with them than with my family (parents,siblings)
- A totally mixed bag from solid support to alienation, rejection, gaslighting
- Minimal support from workers – barely heard boo from my overseer or anyone in my state – I went interstate for treatment and the overseer there gave me $5,000 to share between myself and another sister who had left the work in NSW with nothing. My father wasn’t supportive. But God placed a strong cohort of friends around me – my little fellowship meeting in Melbourne were so understanding, supportive and kind while I was healing. The friends who rescued me from my field in NSW were amazing.
- I lived in a home with an amazing family with five children..was treated very kindly. Don’t remember getting a penny but find a job and enjoyed and one I liked.
- People were encouraging. No financial support. Did have help in finding work.
- Sad, angry. Yes I had support
- Everyone was kind and very supportive
- The friends were very warm. Didn’t hear much from the workers.
- Support from some
- I’m sure there was lots of talk, I didn’t hear much of it – my family were completely supportive but asked no questions and we have never had any conversation about it. The only other thing that stands out to me is one of the then brother workers talking to me and saying the practical arrangements I had experienced (one night here one night there) weren’t ideal for someone new to the work. He has since been removed for inappropriate relationships and use of porn.
- The ‘friends’ have been lovely. The workers have kept a distance.
- Varied responses, lots of judgement but I did have a good support system also.
- Parents & family felt sad, people felt awkward around me, I did not have emotional support or mental support directly afterwards. I was supported financially by my parents. Small sum given by the work (2500)
- A lot of encouragement to go back in. My family has been wonderful to support me during my time recovering from health issues.
- No support except from my immediate family. I didn’t feel that I could talk with anyone about what went on.
- CCF was my mainstay. I had help from total strangers as well as true close friends.
- Yes overall.
- People responded kindly. One elder employed me for 1-1/2 years doing farm work until I gained better employment.
- People criticized me, judged me and treated me as a defeated woman for leaving the work.
- None
- Yes, lots of support from family. Quite a few people and workers still “in” have reached out.
Question 17
Have you been in therapy because of the work/church?
72 responses
For how long?
Other Responses –
- 8 weeks in hospital and then 4 years of 2x weekly psychotherapy appointments
- After 5 yrs in the work i was admitted to the psych hospital for anorexia and suicidal ideation
- Especially in more recent years as I left meetings and then have been working through the whole system being set on a false premise.
- For a few months while in the work, then for a few years immediately after i left. I have relationship issues due to issues with my family of origin. I believe many problems i experienced in the work were also related to this issue that i hadn’t addressed (didn’t yet know or understand at that time.)
- Have been in therapy, but the work was only an incidental motivator for seeking therapy.
- I am csa survivor. In therapy for not quite a year
- I have been in and out of therapy for the last 12 years because of the rape and abuse of overseer and one co worker in Colorado.
- I have read a lot of books, etc abt spiritual abuse
- No therapy … yet … my year sabbatical was a good bridge to civilian life again
- Off and on
- Off and on the past 30 years
- On and off for 38 years since leaving. This motivated me to become a therapist myself.
- Since my 2nd year in the work. 12 years
- Only indirectly- it has been talked about in therapy as a complicating factor to other life problems.
- No. I stuffed it down for so long thinking that I truly was the problem. It’s only been recently that I’ve learned others have faced similar experiences
- Not because of the work/church. Therapy was forbidden by workers. But I went for therapy for 2 years and never mentioned being in the work!
- didn’t have money for therapy
Question 19
Do you still attend meetings?
No- 70.6%, Yes- 14.7%, Other- 14.7%
Other Responses –
- I was angry and didn’t have anything to do with meetings for decades. Within the past five years I have reconnected with some workers and relatives but would never go back as a professing person.
- I do however I have left the system.
- We attend Sunday morning meeting for now because of who we meet with. We’ve not been to any other form of a meeting and don’t feel drawn to do so.
- Sunday morning and the occasional bible study
- I haven’t really, since about 2006 …. except in the last4 years I have been caring for my elderly mother, and accompany her to meetings.
- Fellowship meetings only
- In a treatment for cancer so not at this time and who knows what next.
- Just left mtgs. This year.
- We haven’t ‘exited’ officially, but haven’t been to Sunday am in 1 year
- Sometimes
Question 20
Do you still believe in the 2×2 ministry?
69 responses
No- 69.6%, Yes -2.9%, Other- 27.5%
Other Responses –
- I don’t believe in exclusivity regarding Christianity. I also think other world religions have much to offer.
- I never had my belief in them only in God but I no longer have any confidence in them.
- Do unto others
- I don’t believe in the exclusivity. I believe that there are many good people there. I believe that it could still be helpful to many, but only IF they stand up and acknowledge the wrongs and coverups and put robust practices and guidelines in place to ensure that it is not possible to repeat the coverups of the past. Other churches have done this – it is possible, if they want to do it too.
- Yes and no. Not every area has handled things properly. Quite a few areas have handled things really poorly. The ministry in our area has been fine and has handled things proactively, but we are keeping a watchful eye on everything.
- Still love people in the ministry. Do not believe ministry is only hope of salvation
- Not in its current structure.
- Kind of believe in it.
- In some aspects yes, have lost respect for many of the ministers
- Not as a doctrinal necessity to salvation
- I don’t disregard them altogether but I no longer believe it is the only way, or that all of them are on the right track.
- I believe in a ministry like Jesus called and sent
- I believe there are some sincere workers but there is so much that isn’t right in the system.
- I don’t believe what we have today truly represents what Christ intended the ministry to be.
- I am super conflicted.
- I believe in Jesus
- As one way of ministering.
- In theory yes, in current practice no
- Most of them are liars, abusers, and supporters of the pedophiles.
Question 21
How has being in the work affected your life?
69 responses
Responses –
- Better public speaking
- I don’t feel I can trust ppl. This greatly impacts work and personal situations. I am a lonely woman. My friends can’t really understand.
- I was very young and had very little emotional intelligence when I went in the work. The work was not a place to learn healthy relationships. I left the work less prepared than ever about emotional intelligence and relationships.
- I no longer trust people, particularly those in positions of power/authority and will go far above their heads to “protect myself” from abuse when I go to them directly. In relationships and friendships I am constantly monitoring the emotional state/behavior/body language for signs of disappointment, threat, anger, or sadness. A crushing sense of responsibility for the emotional state of others, quickly assuming that any change is my fault. I’ve abandoned faith in any higher power and no longer find any use in Christianity for myself. I still have only a tenuous sense of who I am and what I truly want in life, I feel like I lost myself in the work and I’m still learning who I am outside of the work.
- I’m a positive person so I’m trying to find some good in it all.
- It wasn’t all bad but it definitely wasn’t what we bought into.
- I could write a book about this
- Financially. Almost 20 years of my peak earnings years are gone. Also, that time out of what I call the “real” work force I believe hindered my career.
- I enjoyed being in the work for the most part, but was angry about being lied to about Wm Irving and peoples’ denial about it. Also I came to believe that the Bible was useful but far from infallible or inerrant. This all created a huge spiritual crisis for me. I love the meetings and the work but had to get really angry and set a hard boundary in order to not be drawn back in. It took me years to work things through and not be angry and defensive. After leaving the work I have pursued relationships and work and spiritual activities that have been very gratifying. My trauma from the work helped shape my choices since leaving.
- Well, speaking from hindsight now and 35 year’s life experience, I think it has enhanced my life. Not because it was easy, but because it brought my own personal issues to a head and forced me to seek help. It also gave me insight into “worker life” and its realities. When people say stuff about the work in a glorifying way, I say, “Um, no. It’s not like that and here’s why.”
- College for those waiting to go in the work was discouraged. I would have become a high school or college coach. I left twice, at about 32, was able to get a good job, was on track for a good career when I decided to go back in the work. The second time was 7 years later, I was 46, and found it very difficult to find a steady career. Really impacted my ability to save for a secure retirement. All thought and reasoning capabilities were harmed, it was difficult to step into the working world with no self esteem, no skills, no current references, no proper work attire, no understanding of the culture of the world, general business operations. And, no money, no place to live, no car, no health care, no car insurance.
- set me back in life- meeting a mate in my 30’s difficult/fear of clock running out, studying and working hard to catch up financially, while also wanting to attract a partner but no time
- It was harmful for mental health, but in retrospect my inside look at the system and inability of anyone in the system to provide reasonable answers regarding doctrinal questions provided the first cracks in my belief in the system.
- Don’t know where to start. The work takes the most important years of your adult life.
- Missed out on most of the years my nieces and nephews were growing up. Extreme disappointment in a religious system I thought followed the Bible and cared for one another .. only to be severely shocked by the wickedness.
- Since the abuse occurred in the work the work has basically destroyed my life in that sense. I struggle with all the things, trust relationships self worth, realizing it is ok to take care of ones self. It has had an effect on my marriage, my children, our family. I struggle frequently with C-PTSD depression anxiety triggers dissociation exhaustion and directly related obesity to name a little.
- Lost my best years and never had children.
- Appreciate a home and a wife
- I have low self esteem, still feel worthless at times. Haven’t been able to be successful at anything career wise. But have managed to stay together with my hubby for 32 and we have raised a fine son and he has a beautiful family.
- I think about it every day. I have painful moments of memories, panic, things that trigger intense anger. I avoid anything that makes me feel trapped. I feel anger when someone tries to control me. But it also has taught me to stand up for myself. I’m learning boundaries and how to say “no.” I value and adore my husband and children because I thought I would never have my own family. I’m very organized, and obsessed with simplicity and efficiency because of having to life out of a few suitcases.
- It put me behind in making a life. Life had no light to it for many years.
- It has affected me both negatively and positively, but overall, it has led me to where I am today – happy with life. I try not to regret it, but to be thankful for the positive effects whilst acknowledging the negatives.
- I have autoimmune diseases and arthritis and joint damage….depression, obesity….thyroid disease.
- I feel like I’m 30 years behind but also I did what I did in response to the Lord working in my heart. Because of that I feel like it kept me somehow. Life is hard either way. It wasn’t all bad, but I sure wouldn’t go back
- Many friends gained and lost. Starting life over with little real-world experience
- Joyless
- Very difficult
- I wasn’t in long enough for it to have lasting effects on me. But it did open my eyes to the fact that the workers are regular, flawed humans. I saw that the ministry isn’t what the members think it is.
- A chapter in the past
- Hard to trust people’s motives, hard to trust people, isolate from people.
- I have experienced many forms of abuse, including CSA. However, the spiritual and psychological abuse I experienced in the work was by the far the worst of all kinds of abuses and has left me scarred in the innermost part of my being. Added to this is the financial stress that will plague me for many years and will be equally as difficult to recover from.
- It has affected my life in every way. It has affected where I stand financially in life. It has made safe housing difficult, it has made re education difficult because of my age. It has affected relationships. It has affected my health. I don’t know who I am and what I want to do. I feel lost often.
- Every aspect of life takes a different approach. I love now the freedom to love.
- I despise the work, the workers, and most friends
- It has brought me closer to God and has helped me to see a lot of things more clearly.
- I enjoyed the deeper connections with people, the listening, the opportunity to be focused on “big things” (God, the meaning of life, etc). But I also found it so very frustrating, because our lives felt wasted and not truly acting on faith. It takes so much more faith, courage, conviction, curiosity to live as a mother and wife and navigate finances and education and parenting and all of normal life! I grieve now over lost opportunity to get to know myself and find my path earlier in life. I also still believe in God/the Divine, and believe I experienced a genuine call to that ministry as part of my life path. So in that sense, I don’t regret it.
- Lots of positives, some negatives
- It was my complete identity and with so many varied experiences it shaped who I am today to a larger degree
- It’s scarred me and has caused great loss, but also gave me a lot of insight and empathy for others in a “stuck” situation
- Built great friendships. Gave me a basic understanding of the bible(not the kool-aid version so many have drank from the ministry).
- That’s hard to answer but I go back and forth between viewing it as a positive thing overall, for reasons mentioned above, and something that robbed me of the life I could’ve had and the person I could’ve been. Overall I’ve done enough healing to ultimately see it as something that benefited me.
- I think it made me a better person. Helped me to have compassion on workers who don’t make it. My spouse is also a ex worker and we have provided one unwell and one exworker an apartment. We understand their difficulties and financial situation.
- The “lost years” add up, starting again at the beginning is hard
- Will never be a mother and probably never be a wife
- In every way. The impact cannot be underestimated.
- In many ways it’s expanded my life and in other ways it’s felt like a narrow box
- I am so naive about many things- financial, sexual, work life..
- I got to know the Bible better, but was reading it with 2×2 glasses. It has left me with much guilt that I wasn’t able to stay in the work.
- I feel profoundly and globally harmed. I’m not sure I can put into words the depth of the spiritual and emotional abuse that I experienced from living in the worker system. I completely lost my agency. I lost touch with my internal yes/no. I lost the sound of my own voice. I learned to not have needs or desires. I was entirely subsumed by “sister worker.” It was the most salient and only important part of my identity. Name no longer existed outside of sister worker. I lived for years out of alignment with some of my core values. This incongruence caused me to do some ridiculous and painful mental gymnastics in order to quench the cognitive dissonance. I lost touch with the fullness of my emotional life. I suppressed anger, fear, doubt, envy, desire, sadness because those feelings shouldn’t be indulged by a godly person. I compartmentalized many things. Celibacy was deeply harmful as I denied a basic human need and an essential part of my identity. I hid my queer identity and betrayed my own self in upholding the anti-queer doctrine of the church and not showing up fully affirming of my queer loved ones and queer people in the church. Covering my body, keeping my hair long and up, and not wearing makeup or jewelry as sister workers were expected to do led to fear of men’s lust, a lack of safety as I began to dress differently, and a betrayal of my own beliefs about body and sex positivity and my desires and values around adorning myself. Submitting to my companions and the hierarchical patriarchal system caused me to lose touch with my own desires and needs, my own boundaries and expectations, and my own assertive communication skills. Being in the work caused me to stop dreaming and hoping. I lost all financial autonomy. I gave away all of my assets, including ten years of retirement I had saved. I lost eleven years of earnings and the career advancement and exploration I would’ve experienced. I lost fifteen years of prime dating and partnering time. I lost my fertility, giving my childbearing years to the work. I didn’t get to make an unbounded choice about partnering, parenting, career, education, adventure, travel, and hobbies. I experienced profound spiritual abuse. God was weaponized to control me. I don’t feel prepared to talk more in depth about this right now, but basically everything about the Bible feels harmful to me right now. So much was twisted to manipulate and control us in order to preserve and protect the worker system and its harmful doctrine, culture, and organizational practices. Exclusivity is at the heart of much of the spiritual abuse as is the precariousness of a works based system of salvation and an angry and controlling God whose love is transactional. The basic Christian idea that we are bad, sinners in need of saving, feels at its core harmful. There is so much more to say, but I’ll just end by saying that I experienced profound identity, relational, community, and existential losses. I feel like I’ll be grieving and healing forever. I want the worker system to burn to the ground as it’s harming every single one in it.
- I’ll probably never be able to retire. My prime working and saving years were spent in the work.
- I went thru a decade or more of personal crisis, drank too much, was deeply angry, ranted about the church, burned a lot of bridges, but then I began to turn my attention to God and started seeking, asking, knocking and that has made all the difference. Now I want to turn around and help anyone that wants to shake free of the legalism and anger.
- I feel it happened for a reason..Experiences I had then have helped me to understand things I may not otherwise have.. In other respects I believe if I hadn’t gone in the work (particularly as I was not so young) my career path and choices may have been very different. I do feel that I lost a lot of confidence in myself because of that time… which has contributed to being stagnant in my career or not able to progress as I would have liked. I am now nearing retirement age, yet due to being in the work and then marrying later in life.. have young children who I will need to support.
- Overall I accept those years as constructive and important stepping stones to the eternal shore. I am not bitter, nor at this time harboring resentment or regrets.
- There are both positives and negatives. I lost 7 years of financial income and superannuation, it took me ages to feel safe in relationships and trust what people said to my face …. But looking back I am grateful God brought me through and out – the whole experience although horrendous has made me a better person and given me a lot more empathy and understanding for others. I’d stall be struggling along if God hadn’t intervened and brought me out.
- Learned of the corruption and saw different overseers handle things differently. Thankful for a loving and True God who knows and understands all that is going on. Trusting workers is huge for me..things were made known and sweep under the carpet and this was years ago.
- Redirected me from poor choices
- Made me understand how much the workers give up and how much joy they have. I wish I could have stayed in, but my digestive issues were too difficult at the time.
- In many ways it’s enriched it as it was part of ‘my course’ directed by God.
- Affected every aspect of my life. I am living with family, I have no assets, The things that used to bring me joy, being in mtgs are now source of great stress
- I can’t believe I was that stupid. It’s not something I talk about and would avoid discussing with anyone
- I have no money to buy a house or rent but I have learnt resilience and gained social skills I wouldn’t otherwise have.
- It has affected my life in every way…it has actually made me the person I am today. Given me a deep care for others who have been misunderstood.
- It left me with basically nothing financially, very little motivation for life, no joy, no desire to live. No purpose or direction in life
- I think that it has had a positive impact on my spiritually. Though understanding my health is not able to continue, it has set me back in more ways than one as far as creating a healthy future. I do wish that I had a college degree or at least had some college.
- Significantly. I see both sides of things and feel so tomorrow up inside.
- It has helped me to see religion at its best. And to see that I never want to be part of a religion again.
- Although I had some very difficult times I also had some incredible times too. In a myriad of ways.
- It deprived me of an education and/or 10 years of productive financial improvement.
- I feel destroyed, destitute, devastated. I was called antichrist, crazy, evil because I exposed Child Sexual Abuse . No desire to live after being excommunicated from meetings. This horrible experience affected my marriage and my relationship with my family.
- I moved on with my life not allowing the yoke of bonds getting to hinder or control me
Question 22
What would you tell people that are thinking about going in the work?
74 responses
Responses –
- Join the military.
- Stop. Don’t
- I don’t think that’s how God intended us to live. I don’t think workers should be allowed to start before they are about 30. There may be other ways they could share their faith, as the workers basically preach to the friends and have little contact with the world.
- Don’t go! It will destroy your sense of self and slowly crush the faith that’s so strong right now. You will see humanity at its worst and cruelty masquerading as “love”.
- Please Don’t.
- question the so called calling you think you’re had
- Only a few workers I trusted
- Don’t. Just don’t. Full stop.
- I’m not big on giving advice. I would be curious about a person’s experience and reason for going in the work. I would share my experience without imposing it on them.
- I would say, “Would you be open to.doing a Matthew 10 study together? Let’s take a deep dive into what Jesus meant when he sent those 12 men out. It was short term, it was only to the Jews, etc., etc. Can I share some of my experiences with you?”
- Don’t do it. Your mind is so programmed the voice you hear and are sure is of God you don’t realize your subconscious mind is telling you to go for whatever reason.
- It was sweet when it was sweet. When it was bad it was real bad. Know that it’s OK if it gets bad and it’s not you. You are bright and shining beautiful light. Live your joy.
- Take a hard look at publicly available information, not only regarding 2x2s, but other high demand groups. Trust your own feelings. When you sense wrong, it is probably wrong. Don’t let others override what you are hearing directly from God or your intuition.
- If you have to leave the work, you will have a hard life. It literally disconnects you from everything normal, and it’s sometimes too late to develop your identity, healthy feeling of responsibility and to learn self respect. That influences all of your choices.
- Worst thing you could ever do
- Please realize there are many ways in which one can minister. It isn’t limited to being a 2×2 preacher.
- Dont.
- Join the military
- I would caution them and tell them what they might face and experiences they might go through. And the hardships they will face when they can’t continue in the work any longer.
- Please don’t go. The ministry took me as a girl that was zealous, in love with God and lost sheep, chewed me up, and spit me out broken and beaten.
- Question the doctrine.
- Either you will pay with your mind and health, or you will become an abuser yourself
- Don’t allow yourself to be squashed. If you are being treated badly, tell somebody who can help. If you need to leave, there is a future for you. Be yourself – the aim here isn’t for you to become a clone of your companion.
- Do not do it. You will lose your health and your autonomy
- Be sure. Or don’t
- It’s hard to tell them anything, but not to think that it has to be for life.
- DON’T
- It is not at all like it appears. Please know you can be right with God without the 2x2s
- Don’t
- DO NOT DO IT!
- Don’t
- Do not go. Your mental and physical health will be broken
- If they are thinking about it, they are likely fully indoctrinated and won’t be easily persuaded otherwise. People have to come to this on their own. If they would have ears to hear, I would say.. Listen to your gut. Don’t ignore the warning signs or your intuition. And if you do go into the work, don’t give away all your money because you will need it if you ever get sick.
- Don’t go in the work. Go and live a great life outside of the group and ministry. It will ruin you.
- It’s your life and God can use it no matter where you are
- Don’t go.
- I had a good experience, but keep a watchful eye on everything around you. Keep up with all the sides of every current issue.
- Man… this is tough. Because I believe in God, And because I know that God works with people where they are, within their cultures/paradigms, I think it’s possible that God could direct someone into this “ministry” still as part of his overarching plan for them. Part of me wants to tell them to run for the hills. But I know that I absolutely would not have been able to hear my own advice when I was so brainwashed. So I think I would tell them… Stay open, stay curious. God is bigger than the meetings. So much bigger. He’s so much bigger than Christianity. He’s everywhere. Pay attention to the voice of light and truth inside you. Stay alert for any sign of abuse of any kind, and don’t tolerate it. It is never of God, even if they make you think it is. Listen to people as deeply as you can, especially when their story doesn’t line up with the narrative. Remember that failing at what you think you’re supposed to do is sometimes exactly the right thing. And for heaven’s sake please go get a college degree and work experience first!
- I would discourage it. I discouraged my grandson.
- That’s a good question!
- I’ve had this conversation a number of times. I discourage it, ask hard questions and share some insight into the reality of a worker. (It’s not as glamorous as it looks.
- The Spirit has led you this far in life and it will continue to do so. Don’t let overseers/workers influence your perception of the Spirits leading.
- Okay, you can go into the work on this condition: Wait one year and commit to meet with me once/week, read the books I tell you to, read one post on a 2×2 site every day, by a different person, and write it in a journal. Meet once/month with someone who has left, and ask them why they left. Write me a one-page summary. If you decide in a year that this is what you want to do, I will support you, shut my mouth and continue to love you – and not from afar.
- Be absolutely sure you are called. Don’t go until you’ve had life experience. Warn them about sexual harassment. And about abuse from other workers and tell them they don’t need to take it.
- Never been asked
- I don’t know
- At this point I wouldn’t tell them anything. But I would feel like sucking in my breath in a sharp intake, and feeling very sad because they have no idea what they are doing, or what is happening, or why.
- Please be aware of the crisis and pray to be open to the Lord and not others’ opinions about what you should do.
- Don’t
- If I was in a position to be brutally honest, I would tell them not to do it.
- Oh geez, where do I start… I think I would begin by asking them questions. What are they feeling? What do they think the work is? What does their calling sound like? What pressures are they feeling? What are their hopes and dreams about the work? I’ve learned in this last year and a half that you can’t convince someone of something that they aren’t ready or willing to hear. I would ask if they are interested in hearing my story. I would ask that they read and listen to the stories of the thousands of people who have been harmed emotionally, spiritually, physically, and sexually by this church. I would ask if they are interested in learning about authoritative control and influence (cults and high control religion). Of course I would encourage them not to go.
- I would tell them every detail about my experience
- I probably wouldn’t volunteer anything, as people have to make their own decisions. But if the conversation came up, I would ask questions. I don’t think it is that effective to tell people things, but we can try to get them to think about it themselves. Unfortunately there is so much guilt and sense of duty wrapped up in that decision, that it is a hard conversation. Also, to the church, anyone that tries to dissuade that “sacrifice” is of the devil. I think it is better to try to walk alongside people and show them the beauty of Christ.
- I would encourage them to pray and have guidance from God in the matter rather than be swayed by people around them. I would perhaps encourage them to read some of the verses which bothered me whilst in the work.. the ones regarding not marrying and 1 Corinth 9 v 5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife…
- I would caution a young person to move slowly, delay until the fellowship is stable and avoid “Identity foreclosure” – consider well the options of life, naturally and spiritually.
- I’d be honest with them, acknowledging that it is a very real calling – BUT let it be your service to God alone – have confidence in your identity in him and don’t take on board everything that others tell you – always reach out and ask for help – you are just as valuable and just as able to be used by God’s spirit as the older ones are and don’t let them tell you otherwise.
- Not until the issues are made right and HONESTLY of the issues are made right.
- Take lots of time. Do your research.
- Go, but don’t have anything to do with existing workers or overseers
- Pray, pray, and pray some more! Be sure God is truly calling you to that place. Be willing. Realize that if you are called and do go, there is more joy and peace there than you can imagine now.
- Read everything that is out there. The Truth can withstand scrutiny.
- I’d probably like to say “I don’t think you should.” Also Make sure you do a lot of healing work first to be sure that you aren’t going in the work for reasons like trauma response. If you feel your health going down in the work, get out while you still have some health left and you can get your life back together.
- Don’t
- I wouldn’t be able to talk to them.
- Make sure it is God speaking to you. Do not give up the person you really are. Work with your hands first, find out about relationships, the value of friendship, experience life in the work world. Don’t rush into anything. Keep your eyes wide open and trust your gut
- Do you want to be part of an evil, mentally sick group that supports abuse and pedophiles more than children? That doesn’t encourage mental stability, or overall health? Would you like to find yourself destitute in 5 years?
- Make sure it’s a true calling from God. Trust him, and do all you can to stay pure of heart. Just because you’re among people who believe in God does not mean you should let your guard down. Look out for other’s souls, but more than anything protect your own soul/peace.
- Don’t do it. It’s corrupt and not what you think it might be.
- Follow Jesus. Live life so there are no regrets in eternity.
- Don’t.
- If you’re sure, Make sure you have an escape plan.
- (1.) The statistics show that 60 to 70 percent of workers leave before 10 years. (2.) Given that statistic they may face difficulty in becoming self-supporting, especially if they stay in the work until they are age 40 or over. (3.) They should do a detailed study of the history of the sect before offering for the work. “Preserving the Truth” is accurate and very important reading. (4.) Only married people such as elders should be in the ministry. The government of the group should be the responsibility of a board of elected married elders.
- Think twice. It’s not a SAFE place to be in.
- Offer your life to God not Men
- It’s OK I guess if you really feel called but don’t buy into the bullshit that you’re special above millions of other preachers
Question 23
What would you like to say to your previous overseers and coworkers?
72 responses
Responses –
- Thanks. But marriage isn’t bad. Sex is good.
- I still love the same ppl I always did and want the best for them like I always did.
- Please consider very carefully what type of a system you are trusting in. The Bible does not support the current ministry.
- Why? Why did you treat me as if I meant nothing? How can you call your conduct anything but cruelty? Your “Godly love” is a shame and a lie. Pharisees, scribes, hypocrites!!
- I’m ashamed of you all.
- Covering up for years & making out we were the only true right way.
- Your morals are nonexistent.
- Go fuck yourself
- Pay me for the years you stole from me. I’ll take $10k per year for every year I was in.
- I’m happy then I’m happy for you. But if you are ever curious about my choices, I’m happy to share.
- I would like to say the same thing I just said to the previous question..and more. “Let’s take a deep dive into Matthew 10 and all of Acts. What did the ministry, especially to the Gentiles, look like? Let’s talk about workers being married. Many of the Apostles were married. It’s wrong and unscriptural to prohibit it. Let’s talk about the role of the whole church working together as a body of believers as they did in Acts, not in divided, hierarchical places. Let’s talk about scriptural handling of sin and crime within the church. Let’s talk about not taking an 18 or 19-year-old with zero life experience into the work. Jesus was 30! Let’s talk about the history of this fellowship. Let’s be real and transparent about that. Let’s examine some of the false doctrines and beliefs that started soon after our beginnings and that are still alive among us. Let’s rid ourselves of them! Let’s allow each other to wrestle with God and give each other room and space to work out our own salvation. Let’s acknowledge that Jesus taught us to ASK, SEEK, AND KNOCK…ALL of us, not just our “great-grandparents who first heard the Gospel!’ Let’s acknowledge there have been, are, and we will ALWAYS NEED TO IDENTIFY WOLVES AMONG US. Let’s accept and believe Jesus’s words when he said “Whosoever Believes in me will not die but will have eternal life.” LETS STOP THINKING WE HAVE THE POWER TO DETERMINE SOMEONE ELSE’S SALVATION.
- Treat each other with dignity, respect, and share in an equal partnership. Really, what you’re asking and teaching is wrong and the system has resulted in abusive behavior toward young workers who learn that as the best way to train and follow that example when they have the lead and add their own brand of cruelty. Really, there is no way to regulate behavior in the work, so that just needs to be abandoned.
- I told them already in a dream. What I needed was nurturing and compassion and space to grow. I felt like I was always put in a box. People made up their minds about me and didn’t give me space to grow or be different. But really what I needed was the space to be a normal human being free of shame but rather celebrated with joy.
- Not at this time.
- You have no idea what you do to younger people. Please, get thorough knowledge of psychology, before you attempt to change people’s lives. Develop an aftercare program, and make sure everything is based on ‘informed consent’ and age appropriate.
- I’m an adult, stop controlling me. Live and let live. You hypocrites.
- To the ones who saw the value of my soul and treated me the way one should I love you and am thankful for you. For the ones who abused me, retraumatized me, didn’t support validate and hear me and left me by the wayside… I don’t even know where to begin. You are miserable human beings who truly have no understanding of Christ and God, you are Wolves and you do not have the heart of a Shepherd.
- Actually practice what you preach and dont treat others as your slaves. We are all worth the same and deserve to be treated as such and listened to and respected.
- Chill out
- Lots of things. But they will never listen. They are deceived.
- You destroyed me. You have hurt innocent little ones, children and young adults. You are the greatest evil that you fear. To the coworkers that were kind and loving, I love you and will always be grateful for you. To my coworkers that were abusive, you didn’t mean to hurt me, but you did. You learned abuse and you deal it out to every companion you are with.
- To the overseers, why do you let abusive companions stay in the work, to ruin your young workers? You are so desperate for more workers, but you are destroying them. Look in the mirror.
- Examine your doctrine and insure you have good reason to believe what you believe.
- Overseers- go fuck yourselves. Not all coworkers, but most- you are dishonest, self righteous hypocrites.
- Both – Thank you for helping me have a largely good experience in the work.
- Overseers – Please do whatever it takes to keep children and young workers (actually all workers and all friends) safe. We don’t read of legal marriage in the Bible, yet it is expected within the church because that’s how society recognises marriage now. Society requires that churches now be registered and put systems in place to try to prevent abuse, recognise it when it happens and deal with it. It is for everybody’s good – please act wisely. Be true, for there are those who trust you – inside and outside.
- Previous companions – open your eyes. Speak out when you see something happening that shouldn’t. If you’re happy in the work, stay. If you’re not, you can leave. There is a future.
- Nothing….they are blind as bats
- Find Jesus and make your life about Him.
- You’re wrong
- Nothing. They would not listen or care.
- Fuck off!!!
- I did tell them. Before I realized the doctrinal issues, I told them the culture of the work is toxic
- You have no business leading others. You caused and continue to cause so much harm to others. You need to step down and take accountability for all the pain and suffering that so many have endured.
- The whole system is a fraud
- Shame on you
- May you be well. May you know true peace. May you be free.
- To the overseer: You have no idea the harm you have caused in the decisions you have made for my life. You have no compassion or spirit of christ. You don’t understand women and you don’t want to understand or listen. You are a bully and you are a disgrace to humanity.
- Coworkers: You are a gutless group of men and women and I’m ashamed to ever have called you my friends.
- Learn to love as Christ loved
- Fuck you!
- The individual who was the overseer while I was in the work has since passed away. I do know he was one that was reported to be an overseer who covered up issues. I’m not quite sure what I would say to him as he was older and probably wouldn’t listen anyway. I had some pretty great coworkers who I would hope would listen to reality.
- To my overseer, I’m so deeply disappointed in you.
- To my coworkers, many of you were kind, but all of you shut down my curiosity, my passion and my questions in different ways. I know you shut yourself down too. I know that was survival. I know that it’s what you do to stay in the system, and that leaving is so terrifying. We all gaslight ourselves in prayer, “dying to self” and any thought or desire outside the prescribed worker life. But I wish for you the courage to actually start listening to your own questions. To start deeply listening to others. If what you believe is true, then honest questions can only lead you closer to the truth. There is nothing to fear.
- Saying anything would probably be useless, but I would tell them the truth about my experience.
- There are lots of things I would love to say but unless they are open to seeing it, it would do no good. It’s all about Christ and I would like to tell them to read Preserving the Truth for a start.
- Get it together. Take it down a notch. Stop lying. Educate yourself. What were you thinking? Apologize. Stop being a dependent. Say thank you. Do the dishes. Wash the sheets.
- To the overseers: Seek the Spirit and forget the other overseers. Run your own staff without having to ask “the older brothers” if you should make a decision.
- To the coworkers: Don’t lose touch with reality. Care for people. Life in the work is a bubble that is disconnected from real life. Don’t pretend to think it isn’t.
- Thank you and Fuck you 😆💛
- You better get with the times and deal with csa. That abuse of any kind is intolerable in a fellowship that is supposed to be all about love.
- Wake up! Look at nature and see there is no “only” way to do anything! But they are enjoying their dream of being God’s “only” true servants too much and they get very annoyed if you do anything that might threaten to wake them up
- Would rather not talk much to most of them
- Overseers: You dishonest and guileful men. Coworkers: You are unable to truly care because you have so much fear in you, rather than love. I pity you, I care for you, I pray for you, I am so sad for you. You are so blind. It is heartbreaking.
- Be open to truly loving, esteeming & serving Jesus above any religious form or system.
- You’re all liars, abusers, hypocrites and enablers. I hope you wake up and repent one day.
- I would ask them how much they really knew about, or participated in, the abuse in the fellowship. For instance, at what point did Dean Bruer become such an evil person? I would ask him if he was abusing others the year we were in the work together, right under my nose. If not, when did the abuse start? I would tell them that becoming an overseer is pretty much selling your soul to the devil.
- This is tricky. It feels impossible to speak about the profound harm of the system to people still completely invested in preserving and protecting the system. I tried once with a former companion who told me she still loved me but she didn’t love what I was doing. That she was greatly disappointed in all of my efforts to work against them. This is what I wrote: Dear “worker name, oh worker name. I am not working against you. But I must act in service of truth– I can’t compartmentalize any more and pretend this church isn’t incredibly harmful to mind, body, spirit, and soul. I loved and love the people dearly. Tremendous harm has come to thousands of beloved people, myself included, because of the doctrine, culture, and organizational practices of the church. Despite what has come to light this year, much of the harmful teachings and practices continue. People continue to suffer the devastating consequences of emotional, spiritual, and physical abuse. I feel I must continue to tell the truth about that as I see it.
- Don’t hide anything, and tell the truth. I also would tell them to read “The Church of TOV”, and go to seminary and learn true theology.
- I think of all the brave people who have reached out to overseers and workers and tried to help them see their fallacy and have failed, so a part of me says “I have nothing to say to you”. But on the other hand if they open up a door or if an opportunity would arise, I would definitely take it. I am not sure what I would say to them, I would just try to be ready, but I would like to ask them who Jesus is to them. I would like to ask them if they think they put themselves between the people and Jesus and why they do that.
- I would like to have the strength to tell others why I left.. I have told very few people. I have 2 siblings who were in the work at same time as myself and still are. I do feel frustrated as I feel those around me do not see as I do.. I believe that some of them feel they need to be the way they are.. but I know that is not right… not of God. I would like to know how to be able to present that..
- I have tried to speak with some of those currently still holding office and been disappointed in their refusal to consider necessary examination of doctrine, behavior and structure of the ministry. I have decided to not pursue any further discussion as it is beginning to trigger adverse feelings for myself. Everyone is at a different stage of awareness and willingness and might I say ‘honesty’. Both ministry and congregation need to work through this difficult journey prayerfully, scripturally and sincerely.
- Belief without action is as good as unbelief.
- I firmly believe the movement started with the right intentions however legalism and hierarchy have risen up and defiled the leadership of the church. This was never established by Christ. You need to seriously re-examine some of these things and repent for any harm or damage caused. Most of all you need to move to protect the vulnerable and step up as leaders to eradicate bullying, harassment and other forms of abuse from the ministry. Build each other up rather than tearing each other down.
- Too much to write here.
- I wish you would make honest decisions like you told me to do.
- I love you all! Thank you for all you did to help and encourage me.
- Be honest and do what God tells you to do despite your fears. He will provide a way where there is no way!
- God would not have set up a ministry that totally wrecks people’s lives and health so that means that what we have as a ministry now is not aligned with what God intended.
- Listen.
- So many, many things but what would be the point? They won’t listen and they’re not prepared to take responsibility for their own behaviour.
- I know you don’t understand how I have arrived at the place I am now. Someday you might find yourself at a crossroads and you might come to the same conclusions as I have come to. Jesus is the way. The Truth can set you free. I’m still a little bit hurt but I’m a lot more free. I actually don’t want to have any conversation with previous overseers, I am thankful that I don’t need to say anything to any of them. I am thankful for my new life…so much to be grateful for.
- Please leave the work and go to therapy. God wants you to have full Joy. The life you are living is full of human sacrifice that God never asked for. God’s love for you is written everywhere in the Bible and requiring sacrifice is not God’s love. Accept the simple gift of salvation from Jesus. Requiring yourself to “deny self” excessively is not fruit of the spirit. It is a fruit of not accepting true Grace and Salvation from God. This is of the Devil, not of God.
- Thank you for supporting me and standing up for me when it came to my celiac disease. All 4 of my coworkers took it upon themselves to help watch for gluten contamination in peoples homes. They were encouraging, and they let me rest when I needed to. In the end I’m grateful that my overseer allowed me to make the choice to withdraw from the work instead of asking me to step down even when my health was so bad. Though at the time I wish he had not left my name on the list for so long after quitting. Though it did give me time to work things out for myself quietly if I were to offer again. I was glad for the staff I was on that had people who encouraged taking care of mental health. This is my experience, I’m sure it’s not perfect for everyone. Coming out of the work, has definitely caused some identity crisis. This is because when you go you give up “yourself” to share something greater. When you get out you have to rebuild and find yourself again. So that you can make decisions etc. It feels like a baby deer getting up to walk for the 1st time. I feel like there have been lower lows since exiting the work. It will take a long time to rebuild.
- I’d really like to write a letter and I’ve tried numerous times. I just can’t seem to get the words out. Thanks for making me feel like a useless piece of trash who wasn’t worthy of being cared for or loved or respected in any way. I was never good enough to fit into what you set out as the perfect mold, and not sure why I even tried. Thanks to the overseer for stuffing so many problems under the rug and adding to the creation of this horrendous mess. People talk about the laborers being few but I wonder if they’ve considered the real reason….
- Follow Jesus. Live life so there are no regrets in eternity.
- It varies from individual to individual too much to generalize.
- The current system of homeless, itinerant workers and overseers is by it’s nature spiritually and emotionally abusive.
- Liars : You cover up for so long pedophiles. Cowards : Not allowing women to TALK and didn’t believe them, Don’t believe the victims either. Criminals: raping children in Ecuador and all over the world. Abusers: Forcing young girls and women to take antidepressant pills, against their will. Nothing is hid
- It’s OK I guess if you really feel called but don’t buy into the bullshit that you’re special above millions of other preachers.









