WINGS note: this letter did not receive a response.
June 19, 2025
Dear Ray,
I hope this note finds you feeling better. I heard you have been experiencing pain in your spine, and I just wanted to let you know you have been on my mind and in my prayers.
One morning recently, I woke up thinking of you and felt moved to write. Though this is outside my comfort zone, I’m reaching out because of the deep respect others have shared about you and because you have the heart and strength to help in a meaningful way.
There have been many conversations lately surrounding the very serious matters of child sexual abuse, as well as emotional and spiritual harm within our fellowship. I know many who hold you in high esteem. I only met you briefly—while serving at the workers’ table at the Carsonville, Michigan convention—but I’ve followed the journey of this fellowship closely. I am part of the fourth generation in the fellowship and we have hosted Sunday morning and Wednesday evening meetings for 25 years. My husband and I are now in our seventies, still attending, still enjoying fellowship, and celebrating 54 years of marriage.
Over time, I’ve heard from individuals who have spoken very highly of your kindness, empathy, and support during their most vulnerable times—names like [redacted, redacted, redacted, and redacted] Each of them described you as thoughtful and compassionate. I believe those same characteristics still live in you, and I hope that, even now, you’re being led by that same heart.
What compels me to write is not judgment, but a deep longing for integrity in leadership and for the Spirit of Jesus to be visible in those called to care for His people. Sadly, what I’ve observed—and heard from others—has raised heavy concerns. While many begin with humility and sincerity, something often changes once they become leaders, part of what some have called the “good old boys club.” Access to “trust funds,” lack of accountability, and a shift in spirit often follow. Men who were once grounded and tender seem to grow distant, arrogant, and hardened.
We’ve seen examples: leaders insisting on taking the pulpit at funerals, ignoring letters from concerned individuals, excusing serious misconduct quietly without warning others, and failing to visit and know the people they serve. It leaves us wondering:
- Do they genuinely care for the flock?
- Have they studied what the Bible expects of elders?
- Are they walking in the humility, honesty, and compassion Jesus modeled?
- Why is the well-being of vulnerable individuals overlooked?
- Why are the concerns of women, victims, and even fellow workers dismissed?
We’ve also noticed a concerning trend of leaders insulating themselves—delegating hard conversations to others, allowing rudeness and dismissiveness toward women, while at the same time spending extended one-on-one time with favored “sisters” in ways that raise questions. These patterns hurt people deeply. Many have been cast out or left behind, not because of wrongdoing, but because the system broke them.
I’m not writing out of bitterness, but from a broken heart. Jesus is our example—He is the Shepherd, the Truth, the Advocate, the Deliverer, and the Friend of the outcast. I believe you still hold the key to being a leader like Him, one who reflects His spirit of humility, courage, and love.
Forget the Overseer Meeting notes. Speak from your heart. Write a letter of apology. Acknowledge the harm that has been done and take a bold step.
I encourage you to ask each state to donate to Bridges & Balm—a grassroots effort to care for those hurt or cast aside by the fellowship.
https://www.bridgesandbalm.org/resting-transitioning-workers-fund
Let each state write public letters of acknowledgment. Stand against the evil behavior in the ministry that has gone unchecked for too long.
We need more friends like:
- Ruth, loyal
- Hannah, prayerful
- Elizabeth, encouraging
- Deborah, bold and courageous
- Mary, quiet yet full of faith
And we need to follow Jesus, who is:
- The Lamb and the Lion,
- The Bread and the Vine,
- The Morning Star and our Foundation,
- The Redeemer and the Good Shepherd.
I have heard that some overseers are now discussing how to respond to growing questions from the churches.
But what if, instead of a formal statement, you became the voice of comfort for those hurt and discarded? What if you reached out to those who were told, “There’s no place for you,” and reminded them that they are precious to God?
Ray, you can still be that man—the one who sees the need, listens with compassion, and acts with courage. I am asking, from my heart and before God’s throne, that you return to your first love and calling. Let your words, your actions, and your leadership reflect Jesus.
You can help bring healing to those who have suffered so much. I believe in the testimony you had 20–25 years ago, and that is why I am pleading with you now—to stand up boldly, to speak truth in love, and to help restore what has been broken.
Thank you for reading this. I do not have all the answers, but I’ve written what’s been laid on my heart. I trust God will lead you to understand what is needed—and to act with grace and conviction.
With sincere hope and prayers,
Sally VanSickle
(Clinton)
Bay City, MI
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Thanks for sending your letter I am sure by now it has been erased. Any letter in over a year I have sent to Barry or Ray has no response. That is why Ray ran ” Down Under” they want no accountability or responsibility As a survivor I can tell you all they want is your money and to worship them with a picture on the wall!.
A beautifully written that says it all .. and the reply was ?!! I guss we now the answer
Oh, Sally, this is so heartfelt and sincere. You had so much hope in your heart. I’m sorry he didn’t respond as so many haven’t responded to Brad and I and others. We can still hope and pray that God can change their hearts. Heartbreaking the lack of love and concern we’ve seen and felt. I’m thankful we’ve found such immense joy in our personal relationship with God since separating ourselves from something so unlike Him.
One thing that has become increasingly clear to me since leaving the 2×2 system is why there is so little genuine spiritual fruit or lasting change within it. Scripture teaches that true transformation comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit—something given to believers in Christ, not produced through adherence to a religious system.
Romans 8:9 says:
“You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.”
Jesus also gives a clear warning in Matthew 7:15–20:
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits… Every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit… Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.”
A system rooted in works cannot produce new life in Christ, and because of that, real change within it is not possible. I understand the impulse to look for good within the structure—I did the same myself not long ago, in 2023. But stepping outside of it has made the truth much clearer.
My prayer for you, Sally, and for others still inside, is that your eyes would be opened to see the freedom and life that come from Christ alone—and to recognize that this is not a ministry worth building a “church” around.
Thanks for sharing this, it is well written. I especially agree with the questions that you mentioned about the system and the ministry in it. Are they genuinely interested in the good care of the people, the victims who have been abused, do they really care what God wants and says by the Holy scriptures that has been preserved down through the ages of time to our own day. Or do they rather want to be honored, uplifted and highly esteemed by the people over whom they rule as lords and masters.???
It is beginning to appear that in order to achieve the higher echelons of the ministry, you need to be somewhere on the sociopathic spectrum. That would explain why there is little “care” from the top. They don’t, and they can’t. It is rare to find an overseer who is an empath, let alone capable of sympathy. This has to be very difficult for compassionate workers trying to do the right thing and caring for people.
Interesting thought BGM. Which I happen to agree with. I do not really think they start on this spectrum, but somehow they permit themselves the luxury of letting their people push them to these extreme heights.
I am beginning to view this as a symbiotic relationship between leaders of the churches climbing higher because there is no room on the ladder for them to back down…and the people continually pushing them to that place. That place at the top grows into their refuge. Their safety is their power, the power the people provided them.
Then one day when the ones at the top are given a little insight and ample opportunity to realize what has transpired, then they are forced to decide. Either ‘jump’, or continue to let ego have its perfect way.
Now they are dealing with two different groups of people that are finding it hard to back down. On the one hand, the group pushing the dark triad higher trying to retain its relevance, and on the other hand, another group gathered around and pointing to the two feet of the ladder. In their investigative spidey sense with some care thrown in for good measure, they are only pointing out that the water is beginning to freeze under the feet of the ladder.
The last two Sunday morning meeting that I attended, two people made the remark, “Though the people aren’t perfect, the way is.” I knew in my heart that this is not true. IF the way WAS perfect, those who raped the little children and others would have been dealt with according to the Word and Will of God! I cannot and will not ever attend any of those meetings again as long as I live. This religion has dealt me the most devastating emotional distress that I have ever experienced, in betrayal of my trust in the ministry and others. I am nobody’s fool, they can betray me once, if I let them betray me again it is my own fault, and that’s not going to happen again. If I want to be a fool, I’ll be a fool for God alone, nobody else’s. I have no respect for anyone who doesn’t have the wisdom of the Holy Spirit of God and Christ in order to make a right judgment of how to deal with those kind of people. It’s beyond my comprehension how ignorant these people are. Oh, just close your eyes and let God take care of it. Really, do they really want to wait til God takes care of it? God did not cause this corruption, people did, and God expects people to take care of it. If the people don’t take care of it, then God will take care of it and when He does it will not be easy for any of them. I really have to pity them.
Aden, you’re so right. God will deal with evilness. Just try to be grateful that you are no longer blind. Your eyes have been opened like mine. Do we love the innocent followers? I do. But as I shake my head, I just don’t have words for the damage that being raised in the truth has done to me. I try every day to find some kind of humor and happiness and I fail many days but then there are those moments where I can laugh. We must keep moving onward. Dwelling on the past gets us nowhere but stuck in the past. xo
….this letter is so good. It is exactly how I feel. There is so much to reckon with. I hope every person in the ministry can see the hurt and pain behind these words, and the longing for restoration rather than rejection.
David R Serra
I also, like Sally have empathy towards the workers in general, and toward Ray in particular. Because Ray really had the key. It seemed like a key that would bring peace to the people, but quite naturally the people meaning only those of the 2×2 house. Peace on earth (earth where the 2×2 house stood), and good will toward men (men inside that particular house).
I kind of wish that others that feel they are strong, like Ray, would understand they may have spinal issues. It could be some symptom caused from a lack of core strength? But I am no athletic coach nor physiotherapist to expertly comment.
But, from my 55 years of paying for instruction and teaching and lectures of the church that I should not wish for anything, I should rather pray and stay away from wishing, especially stay clear of wishing upon falling stars. My writing is free, but the church says it is too costly for the people and most certainly diabolical they think. What do the leaders want me to do, discount it another 100% or 200%?
But when I was to pray, I was to close my eyes, recognize that God was holy, then because our church was the greatest of all time (meaning I should get abundantly clear to love myself abundantly more than my neighbor), make certain that I would be diligent in kneeling on other people while I prayed. Their neck was a logical place to kneel. Logically it was part of the territory. If I was better than someone else, then it was logically a logical pose to kneel on all those others out there ‘drifting on the sea’. And we are now encouraged to keep pushing the victims out into the sea of forgetfulness…but the sea is unforgiving now in bringing their little boats back to shore.
So who is next in line to Ray, to get the 2×2 house in order if Ray is not feeling well and maybe not getting his chores done around the house? Because from what I am understanding, company is coming. Is it ready to receive the guests into their house? Who is going to take responsibility now for making sure it is spic and span and look welcoming?
Ray! Here is a ‘what if’. ‘What ifs’ are never employed much in religious organizations, because many of them believe the ‘what ifs’ were all worked out for them many moons ago. But ‘what ifs’ are a fundamental jump off point of doing risk assessments and failure mode analysis.
What if the bondholders (elders and statesmen), though thankful they be that they were all washed because they were a member of the church, begin to realize they may be getting hung out to dry?
This will be a wonky thought to the church I know. But I only wish the church had been more inclined to explore the word of the dark one so they could now be in a position to make a truthful and honest comparison between the two sons. You don’t need to make a deal with the devil, you just need to learn how he deals. After all, the church forced the victims to explore the word of the dark one, and now they see the difference. If the church had of been more curious to explore that word of the dark one, then I think they would be more in a position to understand that there would come a time when the dark one with a spine and a plan (not sure the dark one understands the details of the plan though) would turn the light on himself, and also start to turn the light on the churches that took refuge in a cocoon of greatness and glory.
Ray! Strengthen and straighten your back, and pop out of that cocoon you have been in. It will be painful, but you never know what you can become unless you do. And try to limit yourself on how many people you are trying to unsave in the world. You sanctioned the victims and prophets to keep a secret from you.
The benefits of core strength. A scary topic for the members, so scary and fearful in fact…that the church left it out of their teachings. Lecturing about secrecy was fairly tasty bread for the people however. But the shroud of secrecy is now beginning to turn and eat itself from the inside out. And the church had the audacity to sell secrecy as light. Surprised it made sense to me for so long.
Now the church can wish upon a falling star that the dark one would not set about breaking open the cocoons. Sorry, looks like that wish is not going to come true. He is going about completing the work he was given to do. Not many religious people I think believed that the two sons would be able to labor together for a while.
Hi Ray,
It is just me.
I suppose you have heard of a guy by the name of Churchill. Winston Churchill. Many liked him, otherwise others preferred their own likeness.
I visit with Churchill now and then. He had to deal with some things as you likely know. I could rhyme off a few of Churchill’s saying, but please don’t ask me for chapter and verse. I think he found he needed to refrain from the chapter and verse stuff in order to get some real work done.
There is one saying of his…actually there is debate whether this saying could actually be attributed to him or not. So since I found no copyright or license on this saying, I will take the liberty to tweak it a little bit.
He said, with a little tweak “You should be able to count on the 2×2 church to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”
With best regards,
Mark
Ray – what does it feel like after all these years in the wheelhouse, watching the wheel slowly turn this way and that by itself, thinking God was at the controls steering the 2×2 cargo ship, and now come to find out that 1/3 of the crew were down in the engine room manipulating the rudder? I am sure it must bring some feeling of unfairness to the realization.
Likely this will sound like some crow squawking in unknown tongue about some fool thing from the crow’s nest.
Mark, PLEASE – try to keep your commentary shorter. I know you’re in some kind of pain but give others a chance to post and keep comments to a few short paragraphs. I’m sorry but this is the first time I’ve posted on here in several months because you monopolize this site.
Okay – sorry amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I will give everyone else a chance now.
I just thought no one else wanted to speak up. Or the story maybe has just grown old. It was not my intention to try to control people.
My bad.
My intention is most definitely not trying to insult you. You definitely have a lot of good points but maybe keep it to a few paragraphs and then ask others to comment on what you’ve said. In my experience, it’s a good way to get others’ stories to come out which could help them too. Thanks.
I know that you are not trying to insult me amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. And I know you mean well. And I appreciate you questioning me.
And I am no stranger to comments from spending time in the trenches of the world, where corporations wanted to extract their pound of flesh from me and the company I represented. Commentary from big boys that asked me what I had been smoking when they did not get answers that they were wanting.
This is where I say to Ray, do not make yourself so frightfully shy of the controversy around the CSA revelation in the 2×2 church organization. If you don’t respond for yourself, or for the company sake to the big guy, there is always one guy or girl bigger in what you think is the adversary that comes along and will hack off a little more flesh from the bone.
…..can you please come on Wings for Truth here @amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42 and suggest that the 2×2 slavic people wrestle themselves out of their dark ages? And ask them to snap out of their stupor. Quick like a bunny. Because the abused children are getting the muscles to reveal the flesh is hanging off the biceps of religious enterprise. Where they are getting these muscles I do not know. Or am I a liar one more time in my life and I actually know the answer.
You can do it amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. Time to tell the people their pretty white wedding dresses will be a mess after they are done crawling under the tractor and doing an oil change.
Happy Family Day everyone. I suppose that is just Canada that has a stat holiday today – it is called Family Day. But the ministry is wondering what rerun of the vanilla waffer gospel they can spring on the people on Wednesday. Everyday is family day for this ministry. Where was their travail in bringing it forth though? I haven’t the foggiest. They said to the people “Ya gotta buy this, or we will freight forward you to hell.” Since the people did not want to go to hell, they said “Where do I sign?”
Ministry! I happen to be with you. Bereave it or not! But if you are not brave enough to have me with you, then by all means, all means possible that has been given to you by the Merchants of Venice.
Shifting gears to Ray again. Ray, here is a question for you. Be brave and courageous now and start ruminating on the questions that are being thrown at you now from all directions and all angles. Why Ray, why do you think that your handy book, the handy book that has told you how to get around a few obstacles to perform your miracles, why in heaven or on earth does it hardly say anything about any dialogues with the risen Christ that the Christian world says they know so well. If you can answer that question Ray, it will not only give you some idea of where the children are getting their strength from, I will also give you the bronze medal. And if you stay with me, and learn of the people that don’t want to be called the Truth in name only, you will graduate to silver, and then God willing, you will achieve gold.
Why Ray may I ask? Why are your people, the ones that you asked god to let them go, that they would not need to endure the slavery of reality and truth, and the fire of the furnace…why? Why? Did you think the King of Babylon would feed and save you forever…and not give occasion to have the children poke you in the eye after all is said and done? Let go of momma’s apron strings Ray.
I apologize for the gadzillionth time aamphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I tried to make it only a couple paragraphs…but my emotions and mind kept flooding back to me that it sounded like some high falutin’ kingpin from the platform at convention telling me to make it short because I was eating into his time allotted for his posturing.
Ewwwww! Things are getting interesting Ray. Quite interesting. I hope you agree with me Ray.
So just a little recap Ray. I may not have my timelines quite right, but somewhere around the year 2000, the root of the 2×2 church started getting pulled on. Naturally, hardly any of the people noticed. Then about 36 months ago now, a nodule on that root popped to surface. That nodule I call the hidden church CSA nodule.
So, what I am finding interesting is, whoever is in power that is pulling on this root, seems to be getting a little more speedy about things. Or actually, what it could be is the root is pulling easier and easier as it comes out of the dirt. I hate to say it, but the one in power pulling, it almost appears like he is enjoying pulling on the root.
I suppose my question Ray for meeting this morning is, what might be at the tip of the root?
And so we all have a remembrance of what @Observer brought to the table with the link he provided, which I found quite helpful for my meditations for meeting this morning (me being in meeting though as you likely guessed is a little figure of speech), this is a wonderful link to some informational meetings of minds….and brave and strong hearts to backup the minds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIXexjXiyfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24LCo1_jRw
I think you will have to agree with me Ray, that there are many mysteries that have been kept secret from the foundation of the 2×2 world. And glad you agree with me that it is kept secret from many other religious worlds also. I do think those worlds are rupturing, or at a minimum, a little dismantling going on.
You know what I really find interesting Ray? What I find interesting is I no longer can tell the difference between the roots of religious businesses like the 2×2 church and the root of political business being pulled at the same time, at about the same rate. Phew it is interesting Ray! Golly, were those two flowers growing in the same flower bed and we did not realize?
Here is the thing Ray. And I am hoping that you can soon find something in your heart to let me go in peace from this madness. And I do not really mean that someone in the church would send me to that place of peace sooner than planned. I know I brought it on myself Ray, and it is a slice of my story. But one thing you are going through, I have feeling for you. And that is about the old saying, ‘a lover scorned’. You know that old saying, right? About the miserable results of a lover scorned? Ya. You are bound to go through some hell, when your lover was scorned. You may need to come into a public space and admit some heart wrenching things, admitting you may have been wretched and blind. I can stand beside you in this, just the two of us standing together explaining the feeling of being wretched and blind.
I can only offer suggestions at this point in time. It revolves around the dog that is biting at your heels. And no, that dog is not me. But first, you need to get some treats in your pocket. One treat would be to one-by-one, with ego given a new haircut, throw the baloney precepts of the church that benefitted the few and handcuffed the many off. Throw them in the ditch. That is a good thing to throw in the ditch and leave there.
Next, be honest about the past. I am not sure this is possible at this point in time for the directors, but you can at least try, here a little, there a little. Each step of honesty, gives you strength for the next. You don’t at all need to worry about the picture perfect you. You just need to learn to be you and not be ashamed of it so much that you try to be someone else.
Three paragraphs. I will try to leave at that…and let this page light up with further encouraging details for you Ray. Everyone has a story…and I can tell you Ray, if you have the courage to be honest and admit you are part of the human race, prone to failure, you will have a lot of people that will get the courage to live honestly. What I mean by living honestly is getting out of the freaking cloak they wear that makes them look far righteous.
Oops. That is four paragraphs…or is it five? You are good amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42. I mean it.
The words of encouragement are not flowing fast enough to you Ray. But rest assured, the ants are beginning to march in lockstep one by one. Actually, it looks like they have graduated to marching two by two. And by all appearances Ray, they may be fire ants. Just my assessment.
I know you feel Ray, that the 2×2 church was on the top floor of the great house. I know the feeling, because I used to feel it too in a bygone era, feeling I was living lavishly in the Penthouse suite.
I had a visit with an imaginary friend yesterday. You know what I mean by an imaginary friend? Maybe you have one point of view of what an imaginary friend is, and maybe I have a different point of view. This imaginary friend I had a visit with had his PhD in paleontology. I will protect his identity, but I will call him John. And you likely know Ray what the study of paleontology is, right? It is a study of the relics of the past. On the way out the door after our visit, he just said to me, keep me posted, there are parallels in so many things happening quite quickly in the world.
Then I had a visit later in the afternoon with another imaginary friend, plumber Dan. He mentioned that the plumbing in the lower floors of governance in the great house where the 2×2 organization has their offices…well he said the plumbing is very old and outdated and not designed to handle so many toilets being flushed concurrently in the upper floors.
It likely will take more than a few bibles Ray to keep ahead of the mopping. I am not sure they will be good at dealing with the chunks. My question is, which kind of imaginary friend am I to you?
Why Ray did you think Einstein came up with this equation? E=mc^2 and further ‘Child > religious $.
Mark, look at your posts after posts after posts. You’re obsessed with “Ray” so I want to know who he is because I don’t read all the posts on here. Was he a worker who raped or molested you as a child / teenager? I lived next door to a man who was given up for adoption at a young age, 7 and separated from his siblings and he went through hell at the orphanage. I can’t even say it out loud or I’ll have nightmares again. I was molested at age 11 by an old man next door. I never told my mom or dad – both truthers – until I was way into adulthood. My ex-neighbor couldn’t be sober. He drank alcohol for 20 years, then when his liver was affected, he switched to pills, valium, marijuana; anything to keep him from thinking. Finally, he had electro-therapy to try and erase the childhood horrors. So please, if you’re going to post and post and post to Ray, tell us the story; or tell me to eff off and that it’s none of my business.
Hi Amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42.
I won’t tell you to eff off. I don’t find that easy to do to people. I don’t even look for a passage in the bible any longer that would give me the right or proper words to tell people to eff off. Church organizations often soften this sort of language and just tell people where to go in a ”polite’ or ‘scriptural’ way.
So Ray is Ray Hoffman. Everyone in the church knows who Ray is though they may have never met him. Also, many people in the ‘world’ know who Ray is. And more and more people in the world are getting to know who Ray is, whether he would like that acclamation or not.
I happen to believe in Ray. I happen to call him a friend, though he may not call me a friend. It is all about choices. I happen to believe that Ray is the key individual that can make a difference in a lot of people’s lives.
So to explain it simply for you, Ray is the King Charles of the 2×2 church. And King Charles is a descendent of King James. I do not know how many hard decisions King James ever had to make in his life, but I certainly believe that King Charles is making a few difficult ones now.
I have a question…I know that each field has a head worker. And that the US is divided into two areas, west & east. Is there a worker over them? And if so is there a head worker over those two?
Hi futuristicallyamphisbaena3e925c80f6. I am not totally sure about this east and west thing. I left the world of split personalities behind some time ago.
I think what people mean about the east-west thing is the chief cook and bottle washer on the one side of the continental divide thought a certain way about separation or divorce and the chief cook and bottle washer on the other side of the isle thought something totally opposite. I think all this sort of thing just goes to illustrate that the east head/horn and the west head/horn were not even able to sit down at a table and come to a resolution of what made sense. No doubt they tried I suppose. I can just picture them in a meeting together, the east troops lined up on one side of the table with the emblems, the western flank on the other, and throwing their bibles at each other.
Naturally, since they both stood on some pinnacle of religious awareness and authority, but never got it reasoned out, then they all proved themselves unreasonable.
And this is the interesting part about this, being as this church was the only church to ‘be found worthy’, using a reasoning from one of the books of Mother Goose. This church, according to the bible apparently is the greatest of all time. Acronym G.O.A.T. In my senility, I can no longer articulate why at that point of their argument in New York or LA, trying to figure out what made sense (so their people would then be able to call it ‘common sense’), why they didn’t agree to let the holy spirit lead the way on this? Why did they one more time tell the church the holy spirit was a floozie, and because they declared the holy spirit was a floozie, the east head and the west head stood in their own gap to ‘take care of things’ (each the right way of course). I call it a gap, but call it what you want. Chasm. Abyss. Gutter.
And here is what the chiefs of the east and west bottle washers never ever, eternally like, never came to an understanding. There was no right or wrong answer they could take their handy-dandy 2×2 tar bucket and use their handy-dandy tar brush to paint everyone’s situation the same. Once again, they said to themselves, “Self, these couples or those couples need us to tell them what to do.” “They will be as sheep lead to the slaughter if we do not tell them what to do.” And they willed it so.
So anyways, whatever. Whichever couples figured it out on their own with a little intelligence and help from above, were the ones that did not get led to further slaughter in the household. And no doubt, some just flipped the bird at the bottle washers and let the holy spirit lead the way in their own lives. And others went to a consultation with the holy spirit and through whatever they had to go through, both parties holding their sugar together in the process, came out the other side better off. But in any sense, if one of the parties was going to insist on standing on their pelican perch, and being a more righteous religious whiner…then nothing works.
That is my two sense for gospel meeting today.
Flip. Not sure why I went into this tirade. This is sweating the small stuff in relation and pales in comparison to ‘parents’ (east and west like) in the ‘household’ coming together in agreement at the table to kick the children out of the house when the children told the ‘parents’ they should not screw around like they were.
Was that too much of a long winded way futuristicallyamphisbaena3e925c80f6 of explaining, yes there are two heads? One east and west. But what their names are, I do not know. There are two heads in this matter tooting their horn because one thinks he has it figured out this way, and the other says he has it figured out the other. And there are 33,456,349+/- other heads that have it figured out in some other fashion so they can tell their people they know, and without allowing their people to doubt that he has the kernel. All these 33+ million people are very good in the big leagues, pitching the bible…a little curve ball now and then, a little spin on it often, and once in a while a little spit on it.
But numerous people have not been able to sleep since the last gospel meeting because they said I did not say enough and go further and explain things. They said, okay you may have solved the separation/divorce thing that dickers in people’s heads…but what next if someone divorces?
Ahah! So this is where the one head that got a bit tied up in getting people to tow his line of reasoning that no one should part ways. Basically, technically, he just did not have the courage to figure it out any further. He only wanted to take one baby step because then he thought he would fall. He had already separated or divorced from the holy ghost and said it was against the law to get married again, and he was going to uphold the law come what may in this matter. He would spend the remainder of his life eating consumé soup instead.
So here is the thing. The same as the separation/divorce conundrum that stopped ‘spiritual’ leaders (otherwise known as religious businessmen) in their tracks. Kind of like putting on gum shoes in the gap. They should have stood aside and determined they may have been a bit frail in making these decisions for other people. In their zeal of saving people because it was good for business, they once again declared plainly the holy spirit, or any type of spirit of wanting to understand the truth…to their minds that spirit was just a floozie. They told their people, instead of taking steps to learn, put on these 2×2 gum shoes instead and you will be safe.
So who knows? I just have a hunch there are a lot of people pulling out their marriage licenses and wondering if they are married to the church organization. Like a blast from past when I was a teenager, there was a line in a song that goes like this…”..it is hard to belong to someone else when the right one comes along.”
My message to Ray is as I see it in this marriage thing and as relates to children. Life is revealing itself to be very complex, more complex than religious business permitted (for obvious reasons) and getting more complex in the world as the days pass. Keep it simple if you want, because that is what your people want. All the fortresses of systems, systems that sold their theory as better than the other fortresses that also sold a theory are battening down the hatches. But here is the thing about children and complexities Ray. Ya gotta be thinking, ‘all these children in the church have many of my mannerisms and speak and walk like me’. Now if that does not get the neighbours talking, nothing will.
And yes, I know there is the other side of the argument of who’s who in the deal that your people might want to make Ray. But one of the complexities that is showing up in the world is people are starting to look at the DNA of religious businesses, because they are seeing there is more to life than just companionship, voting, and voter registries. And a voter registry is kinda like a marriage registry. Only bigly better.
you answered the first part of my question but what is the answer to the second part?
Taking your second question as “And if so is there a head worker over those two?” …if two means east and west, then yes there is a head worker over those two, meaning there is a head worker in the east and a header worker in the west.
Taking the same question, worded exactly the same way…”And if so is there a head worker over those two?” …the two in this instance meaning the workers, then the answer is, I would say there is one head worker over those two head workers – and that being Ray. I would say. This second interpretation I did not think to interpret in this way until you made me think.
My interpretation of it anyhoo. It really in a way is hard to get the truth of it though, no matter my interpretation.
And maybe I am getting a misinterpretation of there being a second round of revelations coming of who all Dean Bruer was connected to.
Soooo similar to a pyramid with Ray Hoffman at the top.
Something like that I suppose. For what purpose in guarding Pharoah’s bones and treasures, I do not know.
You speak amphisbaenasparkly9a09bf2d42 of your ex-neighbor. I find the study of what the church refers to as ex-neighbors quite an interesting study.
“You an advocate for the children?”
“Yes!”
“Okay.” “You can stand over here in the ex-neighbor line!”
And with respect to your ex-neighbor taking all kinds of medication or drugs to keep him from thinking, I do have some compassion for that type of individual. Did you try inviting him to gospel meeting? Kind of maybe like get his medication changed up a bit?
Ray – Just a little food for thought for gospel meeting tomorrow. Think about whether now is an opportune time to move the 2×2 head quarters back to Belfast.
Sorry friends. We are heading in to some tough going on this hill and getting into some sand under the tires. People might be getting bogged down a bit. Need to gear down, and stop if someone spins out in front of you on the hill. No use trying to push the guy or girl in front of you on this uphill, they are trying their best. Conditions are tough.
This message might be only for me…but it appears not.
And when I say the guy or girl that is ahead of you driving this uphill, I am not talking about any kind of religious food chain theorem that makes it look like you are heading uphill.
Ray – I have a certain level of confidence that the religious world, of which the 2×2 organization bought and sold their merchandize from is sitting on a huge volcano and unaware. They are sitting confidently in their theatre seats watching the football match, and arguing over the walls their interpretation in the bible whether the ball is round or the ball looks like a double ended torpedo.
Ray – please take a moment. Get your eyes off those balls. There is work to do. If you want to hide your face in the bible, hide it in the right place.
By gum Ray! Things are getting so so very interesting. Not so-so very, I mean so so very.
Meanwhile, the children, especially the children victims of the church are actually I think toning done their impatience. They see now there is a mountain, and the whole mountain is beginning vibrate and shift sideways. I think they may be starting to feel some patient admiration. You know about that admiration thing, right Ray? You and the crew maybe know the feeling well? The children though are increasing their admiration of father time. The victims are looking at their birth certificates. This is crazy Ray. My dad was born out of wedlock and took his step father’s name all the way through school. Through school he was Paul Hines. But his step father’s last name was from a tribe of hardcore renegades. When he left home to start to work for one of the friends (he wasn’t this man’s friend until he started to come to meeting I suppose), he went back to the sir name on his birth certificate. Some people’s stories are complex and I can fully appreciate why religious businessmen try to keep things light and fluffy for their people. These brain surgeons I think don’t like to get their hands dirty with people’s stories unless it is good for their business.
Can you please turn to Channel 666. Here’s how you start to do the math. How you start. A calculation or two must follow. Complex calculations often come in two together or more in sequence. Iterative process it is. That means something like, climbing one step at a time up Esau’s ladder. You know, the ladder we read about in the bible. Start off with looking at William Billy Bob Irvine. (sorry – don’t know his middle name, I just made it up) Now look at William the Great’s heritage and you might need to go back past Scotland. Get his heritage names, then do further calculation. Ha! You thought I would spoon feed you further on this one, eh? Nope. Don’t plan on starting a religion, so don’t believe in spoon feeding. Neither providing the people with high chairs or cribs.
I do not know whether Channel 666 is a football game, or a gospel meeting. Or both. My vote is both.
And the bible was never good at math, so don’t work too hard there. Correction! Having said that, there is more to this story, but believe it or not, the church is not able even yet to accommodate this information. So we can keep it somewhat light and fluffy for now. Actually, the bible is very good at math. Very good indeed. But I dare say, better at math than religious businessmen mathers.
As I have said before, this is a 1000 piece puzzle and it is coming together. So I think you would be right in thinking that there is more than 1 or 2 pieces to this puzzle. But Ray, I have said before that the 2×2 church was a super very important piece. Believe it or not. Without it, the puzzle would fail. But I had no inkling in the early days (meaning 25 years ago) that the 2×2 piece would prove to be a so so very very much of a colorful piece.
Ray. Can I ask you to learn something new if you are interested? I do realize that looking down from the mountain on the victims may have saved you from a lot of things in life. But here is a sextant. Now line it up with the stars. Religious enterprise that has hidden some kind of treasure on the mountain is saying the stars are really getting out of their place now. You and your people said you knew the truth, notwithstanding you were the truth. So you tell me what’s up, like in your lifetime you have been wont to do.
That notwithstanding clause can be a buggar! The church forced through the notwithstanding clause, but what I am seeing in the runup of interesting things in the foreplay of tomorrow, two can tango notwithstanding.
….and when I talk about religious businessmen Ray, I do not refer to business owners that are religious. Those owners of businesses that are trying to make a profit to keep their businesses going. I am referring to the 2×2 church owners or otherwise the church leaders that have turned people’s spiritual life into something that resembles their business.
Just a little more encouragement Ray, and I will then go out and kick the ball around with the neighbor kids. Likely we will just throw snowballs at each other until the snow melts. The neighbor kids think maybe they should bring a bucket for me sit on or to kick around on the sidelines. Maybe they see something, maybe they don’t.
But here is what organizations like the 2×2 collective never wanted their people to relate to. They spent all their time isolating Jacob from Esau. They taught about Jacob in a vacuum, and taught about Esau in a vacuum. And naturally, everyone in the church wanted to be a Jacob. So everything they proceeded to do in life dictated they need to be seen as a Jacob. The organizations said that only Jacob could preach.
But those two brothers were connected and in a sense inseparable. Neither a hypocrite (I am guessing), but Jacob cared more for the little ones than Esau. But Esau was fine with that. Now tell me, how on earth did this get turned upside down because Dean Bruer said so.
And then I ask, are you watching the interaction between Isaac and Ishmael – half brothers? I bet you are.
Ray. Just a suggestion. This may be something that the religious world, like the 2×2 world will begin to dawn on them as the coverings continue to be pulled away. At least 2/3 of them anyway. The other 1/3 will eternally like your spoon better than theirs. It is a useless venture to worry about them.
Here is the thing Ray. The truth may need to get flushed out in the interaction between the two. Hope you are watching. What do you want to call me Ray? A full brother? A half brother? A nothing brother? Oh brother!
The victims are standing to their feet now. Please turn around and look at them.
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