All my life I have preferred to stay out of the spotlight, to quietly try to fill my place and do my part. Unfortunately, there sometimes comes a time where it is necessary to be willing to stand for what is right while others sit silently by. I recently went to Hermosa convention with a testimony burned on my heart. For days I wrestled with it, prayed and meditated on it. Asked if it could come from someone else, asked if I could give the testimony and the words be remembered, but not the speaker. Sometimes the answer that we receive is no, and that was my answer. I will not deny the message that God has put on my heart. I will not stand idly by while evil and self-interest pervades God’s people. I stood in the first meeting and spoke my message. As close as I can recall it:
“I have come here with a message upon my heart, and I will have no peace until I share it. David committed a terrible crime. He used his power to take that which was not his, and then used his power to cover it up. He was forgiven, but there were consequences, and he became unworthy to build God’s temple. There will be a day when forgiveness is absolute, in eternity forgiveness will have no consequences and no loss of worthiness. But we are not in eternity, and while we are on earth there are consequences and there can be a loss of worthiness. Lately we have been hearing stories of those who used their power to commit terrible acts, and stories of those who used their power to cover those acts up. There can be forgiveness, but there are consequences and there is a loss of worthiness. Some have become unworthy of having fellowship in our homes – especially ones with the most innocent and vulnerable. Some have become unworthy to be a part of God’s ministry. Every year we hear from the platform about that desperate need in the harvest field. There is a need, but that need might not seem so desperate if the worthy ministers were not unevenly yoked with the unworthy and with wolves.”
This is not a message I feel worthy to speak on but is a message that I must share. There seems to be a thought amongst some that the only way to be saved is to attend meetings. That casting people from our fellowship homes is relegating people to hell. That is not true. We do not need meetings to be saved, we need a close personal relationship with God. Abusers that are truly repentant will see that they are a danger to the meetings and accept that they have lost worthiness. They will accept that there are places that they cannot go, that there are positions that they are unworthy of. The ones who fight against those consequences are the ones who are not repentant.
Growing up reading the bible I was aware that there were going to be false ministers, that there were going to be wolves in sheep’s clothing hiding among the flock. So, when the stories originally came out I was sad, but not surprised. What did surprise me were the stories that kept coming out about all of those who used their position to sweep things under the rug. To tell victims of terrible abuse that they needed to forgive their abusers and to not involve the law. Hearing of workers, who were known to be abusers, moved to a different state rather than removed from the ministry and arrested. I cannot begin to express the hate that has raged in my heart since hearing those stories. We are to be like God. To love the things that God loves and to hate the things that God hates. God hates the abuse of his little ones. God hates that the abusers are allowed to remain in his ministry. God hates that ministers in positions of power would prefer to do that which is easy to that which is right.
It’s easy to pass off the blame. It’s easy to tell victims that they need to forgive their abusers. It’s easy to allow people to remain in meetings, to allow ministers to remain in the ministry. None of it is right. Mathew 23:24 “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.” Why is there such a strain to tell survivors to forgive those who are not even repentant. Why is that the gnat that causes such consternation. You have swallowed the camel that is sexual assault. You have swallowed the camel that is abuse. Mathew 23:25 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.”
I will name no names in this letter. I do not know who the righteous are and who the unrighteous are. The overseers and the workers know who among them is unworthy. The elders and meetings know who among them is unworthy. They know who clings to power. They know who (Matthew 23:26) “love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and chief seats at the synagogues.” Cast them out.
There are few things that Jesus said that are said in multiple gospels. One thing that was said in Mathew, Mark, and Luke was deemed important enough to be included in 3 of them. Mark 9:42 “And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.” That verse isn’t just for the people who have perpetrated abuse. Not just for those who swept it under the rug. That verse is also for those who sat idly by. Those who, through their lack of standing against evil, caused offence. In testimony we also heard at Hermosa that in the parable of the good Samaritan that it was the fault of the thieves that the man was in a ditch on the side of the road. But that as soon as the Levite and priest saw and did nothing, they were why that man was still in the ditch.
John Stuart Mill wrote “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” Too many have done nothing. Too many have walked on the other side of the road while the wounded were dying. Too many have trusted that others knew best. Do not deceive yourself. You know what is best, you know what Jesus would do. He would cast the evil out.
I have seen many letters from those who have stopped coming to meetings, explaining why – the wrong that they saw in the church. This is my letter as to why I have stayed. It is not because I need the fellowship. Never have I learned or grown more in my personal relationship with God, than during Covid when we had no fellowship meetings. I stayed, because I love the friends. It is because I believe that this is the closest thing to what Jesus taught. I have stayed because I believe that change must come from within. I am unafraid of being asked not to share. I am unafraid of being asked not to attend. Mathew 10:28 “Fear not them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
I have seen the pride that people have in what family people come from. People revering “good families” as if the next generation inherits the testimony of the prior. I have seen people looked down on because they aren’t from the white middle or upper class. I have seen the pervasion of tradition being treated as scripture. I have seen people create rules and treat them as if they are the law. I have not been blind. I have tried to do everything I can to push back on those wrongs, but now I publicly state the feelings of my heart on these issues.
Some of the worst offences we have seen are by those who come from a “good family” and “made a mistake”. That attitude is what allows repeat offenders to continue their offences. A lot of the offences are pushed under the rug because they are committed on those that are seen as on the fringes of the flock. Offenders can sense who the most vulnerable are. They can sense who the flock does not fully welcome. They target them and go free, because people don’t care as much about them. I will not dance around the issues with niceties and platitudes. Often it is the poor, the ones from broken homes, and the minorities who get no consideration. When they face abuse and cry out, they are the most likely to be told what happened was their own fault. There is an issue with racism. There is an issue with classism. There is an issue with elitism. There is an issue with sexism. There is an issue with tradition. God’s way is perfect, but men are trying to walk it imperfectly. These are the imperfections. These are the reasons that it took so long for these issues to come to light. Unless I am asked not to, I will consider myself a part of this way, but I will not accept the wrongs that are pervading it.
It may feel less important than some of the terrible wrongs that have been happening, but it is also important to stamp out the littler things. The tradition of it being evil or wrong for women to wear pants or have their hair down is something that should have been left in the past. The continued control of how women look, and dress is about control and shame. There is no reason that people dress in a specific way to go to fellowship meetings. How many people who would have happily shared fellowship with us have been turned aside by something that is not biblical and is treated as if it is. It is not because they are unwilling, it is because they see something that is not of God. It is easier to blame others than look within.
Do what is right, not what is easy. Look within the fellowship, cast out traditions, prove the ministers, and live for God.
Trevor Larsen
Fargo, ND
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Beautifully put Trevor, thank you. I hope you don’t mind me co-opting some of your message here for conversation with those around me
Thank you Trevor. I agree with every word and it’s the exact same thing I’m hearing in my heart from the voice I have learned to trust from a little child.
I’ve thought so much about what I could share on this forum that would articulate my feelings and thoughts during this time, and these words echo perfectly what I have been feeling. We have nurtured a culture that is not scriptural within our fellowship- a culture that elevated workers to God-like status. We did that. We drove for many miles to hear certain ones of them speak. We sheltered them from our realities in many situations. We protected them from the realities of this world to the fullest extent that we could. We showed them our best china, our best linens, our best recipes, and our best selves, and ladies, many of us put on our skirts and buns to do it. Now there’s sickness and falseness in the ministry and in our homes. We have hidden from them and many of them have hidden from us. We know that human nature loves the dark and the protection of being hidden. We have made this so easy. Maybe we should be brave enough to live openly before our ministry. Maybe it will help us all. I want to get rid of what we have jokingly referred to as “duty skirts” and examine our traditions next to the scripture. If it doesn’t hold up, I want to put it out like I want these criminals put out. Then I want us to heal.
Spot on, Trevor! You are so right in every detail. I can’t imagine that anyone would tell you not to take part or come to meeting, but if they do, please ignore them. They have no right to make that decision- especially given their track record of poor decision making.
So glad you spoke it. I think God is tired of all the “we can’t say that because it might offend”. We need hard truths spoken, we need the meat instead of the milk over and over again. When the truth isn’t spoken to “keep the peace”, then lies or platitudes are being spoken instead and soon they become truths for those hearing them. Again, thank you for speaking what God put on your heart no matter how hard it was!!
Beautiful letter, Trevor. However, mostly a waste of time trying to bargain for reforms. The Leadership has a lot of money, and they have the support of the hardliner elderly folks who will soon bequeath their estates to the Ministry. The reformers are a small group, and will be ignored until the reformers ultimately become tired and lose momentum. The leadership knows that nearly everyone in the Fellowship is too attached to their local Meetings and the social networks, and that leverage can be used against those folks to keep them inline. Elders who have joined the reformers will be told to retract or be shamed by loss of Eldership and lack of participation in the Emblems – this will be enough to bring them back into into submission. Some reformers will be excommunicated, and this example will cause the rest of the sheep to get back in the pen. The Leadership has all the cards, sure maybe one or two of the very worst ‘apples’ will need to be sacrificed to satiate the sheep, but there will be no changes to the overall organizational structure or doctrine. If you are unhappy with it, you have to leave it completely. Remember, it’s 2023 and the Fellowship has the highest rate of CSA of any religious group in the world – and the conventions are full.
Yup we’re in a state of calamity and the conventions are full.
Seems like people would rather listen than take action.
That’s why someone was suggesting not going to convention right now.
If the seats are empty, changes are going to have to be made.
I agree with empty seats right now and focus on the problems that desperately need to be addressed.
I am elderly, ( not ancient) and this leadership does not have my support 🙂
They do not have my support either!!
Yes, Trevor wrote a beautiful letter! And I so totally agree with you, Elaine; there will be no reform. The root cause that got us here will not change and we’ll be right here again in another couple decades.
I believe the 80/20 rule is in full swing in our fellowship! 20% of the workers control 80% of the money. 20% of us are trying to drive reform while 80% of the friends don’t want anything to change. 80% of the workers are awesome, but 20% of them are culpable. And as we already know… those 20% are the Ray Hoffmans the world over!
As you alluded to, the 80% of the friends are simply waiting for the 20% of us to just go away, so that things can return to “normal”.
Elaine S. We agree with your reply to Trevor. Trevor still has hope. Trevor still does not know His Bible, fully. Although he does grasp some. BUT not enough!
Mark 11:15 – :!9 Jesus Father’s House was the Temple in Jerusalem! WHAT???
And Matthew 21: begin with 1:- :11 ‘beautiful’
Then the very Government of Israel appointed by God to Moses is NOT beautiful
Matthew 21:12-:16; Jesus went into temple of God (notice in the TEMPLE !!)
((why are we surprise in Acts 2:42-46 when those who ‘believed’ continued
steadfastly IN THE “apostles” “DOCTRINE” were continuing in the Temple))
Matthew 21 :12 – :13 Jesus in the Temple cast OUT ALL THEM…….(You read)
They were NOT forgiven! — They were “cast-out”!
then
:14 When Jesus healed the blind and the lame who came unto him in the
Temple and he healed them.
:15 WOW, You read the “reaction of the chief priest”. Trevor is correct
about Jesus in His flesh on this earth
However, :18-:19Trevor does not seem to KNOW that Jesus by his actions here foretells what happens to that Nation of Israel because of the VERY LEADERS.
Prophecy foretells Isaiah 29:10.
And Paul looks back and explains: Romans 11:7-11. God blinded Israel
Blind for a season(Acts 13:7-:11) as Romans 11:25 then :26 – :27 explains.
Math. 21:43 Jesus informs those very leaders The very “Government of Israel” THAT Kingdom of God will be taken from you”. AND given to a nation bringing forth fruits, thereof.
And God gave that very Government of Israel to the 12 apostles.
We are among the Group that worshipped the Workers; the One Only True Way: and looked down with disdain on ALL religion and beliefs.
NOW, we can say::: Thankfully; we became abusively excommunicated and we desparately began reading God’s Holy Word.
We had heard of putting ON the Whole Armour of God but did NOT know Ephesians 6:17. Result is: as we read and studied deeply; God’s WORD has become MORE THAN centered around the 2X2’s and their convoluted doctrine, for us.
We now ask WHY the 2×2’s DO NOT follow the “”12 Apostles Doctrine”” IF, as they teach: they follow Jesus and His sending the 12 apostles with the Gospel?
In our reading of Jesus “fleshly” ministry to the Nation of Israel in the 4 gospel; we cannot find any example that is in ANYWAY a picture of the 2x2s.
Matthew 15:24 Jesus explains very plainly: I AM NOT SENT BUT unto the “lost sheep of the house of Israel”. All other scripture proves this.
ALL the RECORD in Acts concerning the 12 Apostles is only to Israel and the Law of Moses is very evident.
Read Acts 7: and Stephen’s recounting Israel’s History
And Acts 10:34-:48 That Gospel Peter preached to that Jewish proselyte
is :35 – :43 (:35 -:36) the word God sent unto the Children of Israel
and :39 we are witnesses of all things Which Jesus did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem….
So, just to who and what do the 2×2’s preach as they follow Jesus and the 12. We can find no resemblance in any way.
It is like all “denominations” except those churches are proud of their “traditions of Men” and boldly proclaim their human founder and Doctrines.
Is there Hope? Yes, When the Risen Christ (Jesus) reached down to that rebel – Saul of Tarsus – Acts 9:1-6.
Acts 9:15 – :16. The Lord told Ananias WHO Saul is and God’s plan for him.
After Acts 13: we hear very little about the 12 apostles except
Galatians 2: as Paul recounts THAT confrontation recorded in Acts 15: ((NO, it was not a “Workers Meeting”!))
OR maybe they do have :2 had NO SMALL dissension AND Disputation
:7. and when there had been MUCH disputing!……
This meeting WAS Paul saying: :1, :5 to those 12 apostles who were sent to preach to Jews::: YES, all scripture confirms they preached to Jews Acts 21:20
Keep your Jewish Judea believers away from My Churches which are saved by ((Ephesians 3:1-9 and Romans 3:21- 27))Grace AND not by the Law of Moses
It was: you keep your Jewish converts away from MY Gentile churches!
AND you Keep Your Jewish Law to your OWN Temple worshipping converts.
Galatians has a very interesting and enlightening account of the ministry of the converts of the 12 apostles as the came to Galitia demanding Paul’s grace churches must do the Law of Moses . What was driving those Jewish converts of the 12 apostles. Grab Gal. 6:12 demanding circumsicion!
WHY? :13!! THAT THEy might Glory in YOUR FLESH! (sound Familiar??). :18!
Understand there is NOW no salvation by the 4 Gospels and Acts1-12: for US.
Now is Ephesians 3:1-:9. = The “Dispensation of the Grace of God”
Now is Ephesians 2:4- :9. by grace are you saved through Faith…….
AND Romans 3:21-:27. being justified FREEly by his grace….
OH, Elaine and Trevor: your only hope is reading deeply and understanding. God through “Spirit of Christ”(1 Peter 1:11): God’s very WORD to guide you.
Thank you for a well written letter, and thank you for openly stating your convictions. Hopefully change is imminent, or at the minimum has begun to come forth.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for saying what needs to be said.
Recently it hit me that a lot of my life, I’ve been more influenced by guilt and shame rather than love and mercy. That needs to change.
Trevor, God bless you, brother. I commend your boldness in truth and love! You did the right thing. Praying all will be exposed so healing can begin.
Well done Trevor. Spot on in every respect. The best and godliest statement on the subject I have ever read.
Join us…. https://connected-and-concerned-friends.mn.co/share/CTu88wDyuFwaahVT
Quote
“This is my letter as to why I have stayed. It is not because I need the fellowship. Never have. I learned or grown more in my personal relationship with God, than during Covid when we had no fellowship meetings. I stayed, because I love the friends. ”
While I heartily agree with most of his letter this comment seems conflicting. While I do agree that our personal relationship with God is central, God planned fellowship as one of our many helps. I can’t imagine not meeting in fellowship around the emblems with those that I love in the faith, listening to what has fed their heart from the heart of God.
Trevor, your assessment was accurate of tradition being treated as law. The statement you made, ” I will consider myself a part of this way” was the most telling, however. You, me and many other people were swept up by “this way” movement that has very alluring aspects as you noted. You said, “….why I have stayed. It is not because I need the fellowship. Never have I learned or grown more in my personal relationship with God, than during Covid when we had no fellowship meetings. I stayed, because I love the friends”. It is the community. Also, the culture, the dress at conventions, being “all the same”, being us against the whole rest of world. This is the community and tradition established by William Irvine from the start of this religion and it held it together because it made it easy for people to “belong” to “something”. It is also dangerous. You think as a group and not an individual. You abide by the ” rules”. God means less and the Word of God is lost in “the way”. Elaine S said it best, “The leadership knows that nearly everyone in the Fellowship is too attached to their local Meetings and the social networks, and that leverage can be used against those folks to keep them inline”. Trevor, you will stay in line too if you’re going to stay in ” the way “. Thanks to God, me and my family are no longer controlled by man and his way of thinking and we can live in Christ’s Way. You can too and be much happier, but you will need to pray for God to give you strength and read your Bible always. You will get to where you need to go.
Thanks Louis, for articulating my thoughts! I have found that the ‘details’ (the natural things Trevor mentioned) of the “Way” continue to block my view of Jesus. (We are so focused on the trees (details) that we can’t see Jesus (Love)) – the forest, as someone mentioned.)
Wow Trevor I appreciate you putting in words all that has been on my heart as well. It’s like you read my mind.
Thank you for going out of your comfort zone and putting into words what so many of us are feeling.
Elaine, you are a realist. You are describing the the eventual outcome of this effort, as those wanting positive change are outnumbered by those who are fearful of it.
I believe the leadership’s eyes are open regarding CSA, but as for all the other issues (doctrine, exclusivity, non-equality, non-scriptural traditions) I don’t expect much to change – at least not for a generation.
There are some amazing things about the way of life in the ‘Truth’. However there are some major issues that aren’t going away anytime soon. For those who are feeling stifled, spiritually starved – for the sake of your soul – visit local churches in your area that are scripturally sound, find a bible study at your workplace or your college, check out a few podcasts, read a few books (CS Lewis, Oswald Chambers, John Piper). GET OUT. You will discover how likeminded other followers of Jesus are to each other.
Thank you for your thoughtful letter! We left meetings several months ago after reading about the truth’s history and founder. Like you, we began questioning the scriptural accuracy of the doctrine and traditions and finding those lacking. We knew that for the sake of our souls and our children’s souls we could no longer participate in a group with an unscriptural foundation, theology, tradition, and culture.
For years prior to leaving, I had stopped wearing skirts all the time. Like many, I wore and dressed our girls in dress and skirts to meetings and around the workers and friends out of respect. Now I wonder what was I truly sacrificing and what message was I sending to wear the ‘uniform’ in meetings and around the workers? I do not believe that this was a righteous sacrifice but rather one to appeal to my human need for belonging and acceptance at the cost of giving up an outward showing of my convictions that God is not asking women to wear dresses/skirts and to draw attention to our self through physical appearance. For years I saw the vanity and pride in the ‘uniform’ and as an outlet for judgment and condemnation to the women who don’t fall in line.
It is also now so clear to me how the ‘uniform’ limits the spread of the gospel because ‘outsiders’ will quickly dismiss anyone who appears so culturally atypical.
On a darker side and in light of the CSA and SA revelations, I wonder how many lady workers use the ‘uniform’ as an armor. Not a Godly armor that is, but one as a means as protection to ward off unwanted advances? If I was in their position, I would naturally feel safer if I did little to make myself attractive.
Being a woman who didn’t wear the same level of frumpy attire, I received some undesired attention from men whose wives did dress very unattractively. I am in no way excusing this behavior, but it begs the question did these men stop seeing their wives as sexual beings because of how they presented themselves?
If any ladies are struggling to understand how God wants them to dress, it was very helpful for me to simply google the verses about dress to better understand the translation, culture and history relevance and application to myself.
If we were still going to meetings and conventions, I’d feel safer in pants and dressing our girls in pants because there’s easier access in skirts.
Hi Magical Thinking. You may be interested in this post, if you haven’t read it already:
Agreed Elaine. There are not enough reformers, and those who ARE don’t have power or influence.
Outside of the workers and overseers, there is a potentially untapped group of people who DO have influence – the convention ground owners. The fact that 2-3 of them said they would NOT have convention this year – that was a wake-up call, and made a statement. Imagine if another 5-10 convention owners said they wouldn’t be holding one this year, until things get sorted out?
Lobbying this group might be more successful than lobbying overseers. How many convention ground owners have victims in their families? How many have young kids of their own? How many are setting themselves up for lawsuits (or are currently facing lawsuits) as a result of CSA on their property??
CCF, consider compiling a list of emails/addresses of convention ground owners, same as you did with the overseers. They may be quite open to the “pause” that many have been asking for.
Convention Owners banning convention would create quite a shock to the system – depriving Leadership of one of its most cherished social networking facilities. Good idea.
Another idea is to shut down the free AirBnB that the Workers use. Deprive them of housing, forcing the Overseers to pay for it. I am willing to bet there will be a lot of scampering to get that reverted very quickly.
Beautifully put and very wise words. Love what you shared about “pride in families”. I’ve been disgusted by this for years as I’ve come from one of these “esteemed families”. The narcissism that exudes from these families is disgusting. Even for me when I was a kid, I thought because of my last name that it meant something. It doesn’t mean anything. Disgusted at my past self for it. Disgusted at families who think their names mean something. It’s frightening to see how close narcissism and Christianity are to each other if we aren’t careful. Our last name is nothing. So much of this faith is purely tradition. From the clothes we wear on Sunday, to the hymns we sing, the carbon copy prayers, the way we sound in our prayers/testimonies. It’s the Exact. Same. Meeting. Every. Time. And people think the meetings are what’s serving God. It’s like being in a boat with one oar. Just going in circles thinking we’re going forward.
For years prior to leaving, I had stopped wearing skirts all the time. Like many, I wore and dressed our girls in dress and skirts to meetings and around the workers and friends out of respect. Now I wonder what was I truly sacrificing and what message was I sending to wear the ‘uniform’ in meetings and around the workers? I do not believe that this was a righteous sacrifice but rather one to appeal to my human need for belonging and acceptance at the cost of giving up an outward showing of my convictions that God is not asking women to wear dresses/skirts and to draw attention to our self through physical appearance. For years I saw the vanity and pride in the ‘uniform’ and as an outlet for judgment and condemnation to the women who don’t fall in line.
It is also now so clear to me how the ‘uniform’ limits the spread of the gospel because ‘outsiders’ will quickly dismiss anyone who appears so culturally atypical.
On a darker side and in light of the CSA and SA revelations, I wonder how many lady workers use the ‘uniform’ as an armor. Not a Godly armor that is, but one as a means as protection to ward off unwanted advances? If I was in their position, I would naturally feel safer if I did little to make myself attractive.
Being a woman who didn’t wear the same level of frumpy attire, I received some undesired attention from men whose wives did dress very unattractively. I am in no way excusing this behavior, but it begs the question did these men stop seeing their wives as sexual beings because of how they presented themselves?
If any ladies are struggling to understand how God wants them to dress, it was very helpful for me to simply google the verses about dress to better understand the translation, culture and history relevance and application to myself.
If we were still going to meetings and conventions, I’d feel safer in pants and dressing our girls in pants because there’s easier access in skirts.
MT – you sound a lot like my wife. She dressed in form fitting clothes and looked better than 10 % of the other ladies in the group. She had to endure her share of off color jokes at the covered dish potlucks from creepy males when I was not around. Always wondered why the lady workers were rather rotund – maybe due to the likes of Leslie White, Bruer, Thayer, LeRoy Sanford and all the rest slipping around in the shadows. Very strange indeed.
Meant 100%. Need to get some new glasses but too hot out now. Record heat in these parts.
I attend meetings but for years I’ve never felt the need or had any convictions where it comes to how I dress or how long my hair is. I don’t put on a skirt just because a worker is coming to my house. I don’t hide my tv’s. I have no guilt nor do I feel like I don’t belong or feel out of place.
I do have a lot of guilt when I don’t take the time to read and pray, when I am impatient, when I say something unkind and when my faith is weak.
I don’t wear provocative clothes. When my daughter was little I had her wear shorts or leggings under her skirts.
To get caught up on the outer appearance seems like such a waste of time and energy when there is so much work to be done on the inside.
Did not say “provocative”. Said “form fitting”. There is a difference. Many in the group are not in that good of shape and stuff themselves into dresses that are extremely tight due to their excess weight. To me, this looks much more immoral than what you seem to be talking about. We have lived and visited many places across the fruited plain – do not recall any of those locations where TVs or slacks or short hair were allowed.
Do not think the lady workers that Bruer and White and maybe others abused were wearing “provocative” clothing. Besides, when ones says “provocative” and something bad happens they are placing the blame on the female, and not the male.There used to be a lady worker in these parts that was always harping about the elder’s attractive daughters and their choice of clothes. She said more than once that this was not good for “the brother” workers to see. Never understood what she was talking about, but now I do with all the recent CSA/SA exposure. Hope they were not abused by “the brother” workers due to their clothing choice.
tabs 1481, A waste of time and energy, indeed! Let acts of love, kindness, and charity be our marks of righteousness.
Muslim women and girls are covered from head to foot and sexual abuse is rampant in their religion. Amish girls and women wear dowdy, unattractive clothing and sexual abuse is prevalent in that community.
It is becoming apparent child sexual abuse and sexual abuse is a major issue in the 2×2 group also, where so much emphasis is on a woman’s “righteous” attire.
I was a very skinny 13 year old, with no form or ability to dress provocatively, when I was sexually abused by a professing older man.
Let’s put the responsibly on the man. If he has evil, sinful lust it does not matter how a woman is dressed. A righteous man can appreciate a woman’s attractiveness without immoral desire.
Thank you for clearly articulating the convictions of my own heart! Your courage lends courage to others, to speak the truth and refuse to stand by while evil continues.
JEF, YOU are exactly right!!! You said, “For those who are feeling stifled, spiritually starved – for the sake of your soul – visit local churches in your area that are scripturally sound, find a bible study at your workplace or your college, check out a few podcasts, read a few books (CS Lewis, Oswald Chambers, John Piper). GET OUT. You will discover how likeminded other followers of Jesus are to each other”. JEF, I love the way you put your assessment. I was afraid, being a third generation in ” the way “. I had to get out because after my daughter was assaulted by a worker, my world was turned up side down. The head worker and our elders ran cover for the predator. I was facing a whole new situation that I never wanted or expected. I started slow. I went to a church that I knew some ” worldly people ” that I was familiar with went to. The church was very different from what I was used to. The message was very good. Later I went to another church. Again, it was very different from “meetings”. I began to love the freedom, the friendly people, and no judgement! Now, I can’t imagine not being at these Sunday services. Wow, refreshing, real and focused on the Lord Jesus! I wouldn’t want my daughter to be assaulted by a worker, but by that workers actions that were guided by satan, I have found real lasting peace with God.
Louis, You mentioned “my world was turned upside down”. In reality, to those of us who had such devastating experiences and left, our world was turned RIGHT side up! And we could see everything so clearly.
Our world was upside down and completely mixed up while we were in the 2×2 group. God bless you on your journey.
TREVOR, thank you for a well thought out letter. I totally agree with you. I am very encouraged when I see the Godly wisdom and Christ Like spirit of so many of you young people who have posted letters and comments.
Thanks for sharing. We all need to continue to share. Good to be reminded of removing rules and power imbalance. If we could just stop the retaliation by the head workers. If we could just stop the silencing of those workers that do step up and speak out.
In Prayer, you are so right! Initially I felt my world was turned upside down, because that was all I knew for the first 50 years of my life. Now, I realize In reality, as you stated, after going through devastating experiences and left, our world was turned RIGHT side up! Thank your correction!! Stay in prayer and keep close to the Lord. May God bless you.
I didn’t mean for it to come across as a correction, Louis. We had enough of that in the old group!
Just a change of perspective to brighten your day!
Thank you Trevor! So very well expressed. As horific as the CSA/SA is, I believe it is an ugly byproduct of the exlusivity doctrine. Indeed, in my humble opinion, I would not call this doctrine one of the “littler things”. I believe the excusivity doctrine is one of, it not THE root cause of the rampant CSA/SA. Thank you for having the courage to speak up and take action.