The following letter is a collective cry from some of us who love the fellowship that we have enjoyed and are horrified and heartbroken over the recent revelations of years of Child Sexual Abuse and Sexual Abuse within our fellowship and the handling of these situations. These revelations have highlighted a need for accountability and meaningful change within the structure of the ministry. We are aware that we have many honest and loving workers who seek to point us to Jesus and they are feeling overwhelmed and hurt by all of this as well. We seek only to encourage and support them and each other with a healthier fellowship and ministry.
This letter is written in two parts. The first part is addressed to three specific overseers pleading that they examine themselves and take responsibility for what has happened under their watch. The second part is written to the broader church with a suggestion for a path forward. It is our sincere desire that the path forward is led by God and is scripturally sound and thus it needs further thought, prayer and guidance by the church.
This letter was not written in haste, anger or bitterness but with serious and prayerful input from many people over the last couple of months as we have sought confirmation from the Holy Spirit.
If this letter reflects the cry of your heart, you can support it by adding your signature. The letter will be open for signatures until July 17, 2023.
To Ray Hoffmann, Barry Barkley, and Dale Shultz:
We are writing this in good faith and out of great concern for the state of our fellowship and ministry. We have enjoyed many years of fellowship and we have a love for one another and for our ministers who love and point us to Jesus. Most importantly we have a love for God, and a sincere desire to know Him better through His son. We feel profound hurt, disappointment, and righteous anger as revelations of abuse, coverup, and mistreatment continue to come to light. We are sorrowful over those who have felt they must leave the fellowship because of these things. While CSA/5A is horrific and the most pressing issue that needs to be resolved, these past days have revealed there are many other things in our fellowship and ministry that are not Christlike, including:
- CSA / SA being allowed to proliferate even when obvious to overseers, workers and others
- Decisions that are not aligned with the Spirit of Christ
- Dysfunction in the ministry causing mental health problems and burnout
- Abuse of power and authority
- Unwillingness to believe and work with victims or advocates of victims
The continued lack of a spirit of deep humility and repentance by you specifically is distressing. The apostle John asks us to try the spirits, and when we do that, we find ourselves asking – where is the Christlike response? Where is the asking ‘”what can we do to help?” Where is the compassion? Where is the sackcloth and ashes? How can the church be expected to believe you didn’t have knowledge of so many of these crimes and moral shortcomings, when over and over people have spoken and indicated your awareness, and even mistreatment of them for bringing the accusations forward?
Three specific examples involve Ira Hobbs, Leslie White and Robert Corfield. We continue to read honest and heartfelt accounts by those who testify that you had knowledge of a buses by these men, as well as others, over the course of years. Indeed, there are numerous accounts of weaponizing our faith and using fear to silence and shame people for bringing legitimate CSA/SA and other concerns forward. In some cases, people have been removed from meetings because they dared to speak up about the abuse and wrong in the ministry. These situations are examples of a failure of leadership and do not reflect a Spirit led ministry.
There are two accounts in the Bible that come to mind of appropriate responses to shortcomings. The first is in 2 Sam 12 when Nathan came to David after he had sinned. Nathan said to David “Thou art the man.” David, the King in the highest place of authority, immediately said “I have sinned against the Lord.” When he learned what the consequences of his decision would be, the loss of a little one, he fasted and laid in sackcloth – a sign of real humility and sorrow.
The other account is that of Jonah when he came to Nineveh and told them of their sin and imminent destruction. The people of the city and even the king himself put on sackcloth and sat in ashes out of sorrow and repentance.
The church is saying to you: “Thou art the man”. The church is playing the part of Jonah. We are now months into these heartbreaking accounts being shared – where is the true sorrow? Where is the turning and repenting? Where is the Spirit led response? The actions to right these wrongs? There should be tears streaming down your cheeks out of compassion for all those who have been wronged and out of a deep repentance for your decisions. The apologies and actions of removing CSA offenders recently have come only after great pressure and exposure. While the decisions you were making were perhaps well- meaning at the time, the results have been undeniably poor. The fact that so many in our fellowship are hurting and crying out is evidence of these results.
You are the leaders of our ministry. In any organization, the culture and the tone are set by those in authority. It was as true in the time of the Kings in the Bible as it is now. It has become overwhelmingly clear that within our fellowship there are systemic problems that have resulted from decisions that are not scripturally sound or Spirit led. There has been a profound loss of trust and confidence in the leadership of our ministry. We cannot reasonably expect that the same men that led us into this situation can be the same men to lead us out. If what was happening in our fellowship was happening in any other group, there would be no choice but for leadership to step down for the good of the organization. Further, in the workplace, those committing or covering up serious crimes like these would be immediately fired. Heaven rejoices when even one lost sheep is found – are you willing to step down if it means the faith of even one soul is preserved?
Ray, Barry and Dale -the healing of the church cannot begin until there are real, meaningful changes in leadership. Wouldn’t it be better if the decision to step down came from a place of true humility and realization, rather than due to the call of others? To humbly take accountability and responsibility for past wrongs, as the highest authorities in our church? We truly hope you can examine yourselves, let the spirit of Jesus reign In your hearts, and humbly take the lower place.
To the church for consideration: a possible solution
The revelations of the past few months have highlighted a structure that lacks transparency and accountability. We believe our fellowship is precious and we desire it to continue in a healthy, Godly way. As an alternative to address the shortcomings of the current hierarchy and authority, one possible solution could be:
- Those currently in the highest authority (Barry, Ray, and Dale specifically) humbly accept accountability and step down from leadership for the good of the church so that healing can begin; other leaders responsible for similar actions should step down as well
- A council of workers and elders is formed in each region where worker staff is shared. An example of this may be found in Acts 15:22 – “Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabus. They chose Judas (called Barsabas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers.”
- Council should consist of elders, wives and workers, including sister workers
- Council members should serve single staggered 3 or 4 year rotational terms
- Responsibilities of the council should include:
- Appointment of head worker; removal of head worker if necessary
- Oversight of independent investigations in cases of abuse or accusations of serious wrongdoing, Generally, issues should follow the scriptural intent in Matt 18 of taking the concern to the individual, then be addressed with a witness, and finally taken to the council/church. In cases of criminal abuse, authorities should be notified and handle the investigation.
- Creation, maintenance, and communication of policies around CSA/SA and codes of worker conduct
- Consultation on issues of doctrine, structure, finances and worker moves
Item # 2 above is only a suggested framework. The role of such councils would need to be further developed by ministers and elders based on their collective understanding of the scriptures and the needs of the church and ministry. Within the body there are many different gifts our friends and workers possess and utilizing their talents along with prayerful, thoughtful consideration, we are confident we can find a better path forward. We are all aware that doing nothing is effectively doing something and it has become abundantly clear the current structure is not healthy and has led to disastrous results for many. Thus, we plead that we would all humbly look to Jesus to be our guide and begin to take Christlike steps forward.
Signed by elders, friends, and former workers who love our fellowship
[Signed by 95 names at the time WINGS posted this report]
The letter is available to be signed at https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfArTnmjoB6sv5gaFkqtGE9Vv4hBG16kOLli1rTGCINUZquVg/viewform
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WINGS for Truth 
A couple of ideas:
Add/invite Clint Bechtol (SP) and Edward Emberton ( or other like-minded courageous men of integrity and discernment ) to either be on the council, or act as a consultant
Add/invite trauma survivors of differing types of abuse or another, to be on the council. (CSA, SA, intimate partner violence, racial discrimination, spiritual abuse, etc) Most of the fellowship do not understand trauma and suffering, or the effects of church bullying, neglect, and shunning.
Do not think too many of those that have been abused whether it be sexual, spiritual, mental, physical, or anything else want anything to do with this group or any council. They have suffered enough during their lives enduring the deceitfulness that is very prevalent in the group.
The whole church needs to be involved not just the elders and workers, otherwise you still have the hierarchy ,
God looks to those who have a broken Spirit and a contrite heart.
He’ is no respecter of persons.
A younger/older worker may not have the wisdom of an older or younger male/female friend
Totally agree with you. There are elders that have their head in the sand!
Whole heartly agree. I mean who would select this council? It would turn into basically what we have now….. “superior saints” & certain workers guarding the henhouse.
totally agree some elders are full of themselves and very controlling. We need friends and workers. The council thing might go sour as it is another form of establishment. A common Code of Conduct for each and every one to read concerning all aspects of control and abuse including mental abuse. Everyone knows what is expected and ZERO retaliation for demanding to be treated as the common code of conduct states.
I like your idea
I notice this letter is from CCF….but they have not put there name on it.
As a victim myself this is not want I want. Give the workers time to get this worked out. Stop calling for everyone to resign. You do not understand the shoes they fill also you aren’t even trying. Take a deep breath and show up in gospel meetings.
There are at least 95 names on that letter.
What are you defending? Spiritual wickedness in high places? Eph6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” I am well aware of some of what these 3 men have been up to, and that is why I was one of the 95 that signed my name calling for their resignation.
“Give the workers time to get this worked out” you say? For these three (esp DS) that equates to “give them time to cover their tracks”. They have known these abuses for years…they have had “time”. I will say that this isn’t true of some overseers that have been thrown into the fire fairly recently. So far as gospel meetings go, I would not show up if any of these three were speaking.
Please come join us. https://connected-and-concerned-friends.mn.co/share/CTu88wDyuFwaahVT?utm_source=manual
As mentioned above, initial signatures of 95 names were obtained. Since last night over 100 additional people have already signed their names. CCF now has over 2,600 members and almost 40 members are workers.
Sounds like you guys are angling to start a reformed group. As they say in the cowboy camps, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.
Thank you for all the prayer and thought into this email. I agree one hundred percent with all you shared
I was in the work when Ron Hanson was exposed – but to a very select few. He was made to leave the work but as far as I know no other steps were taken. To say I was devastated by the lack of consequences and accountability would be an under statement
I left the work not only because of this but because of other abuses and corruption I saw
It broke my heart. I was in a dark place for many years. Another worker who needs to be looked at is Jim Atcheson for his part in a huge cover up
Thank you again
Jim Atcheson is no longer overseer in Manitoba, very quietly either stepped down or was removed.
Don’t know if he is still in the work or not.
Jim Atcheson is/was the overseer of Saskatchewan, Manitoba and western Ontario . I am from Saskatchewan and I haven’t heard anything about this.
Just wondering if someone can confirm this as this would be a very big change.
His name was moved from the top of the workers’ list to further down.
Jim is back at the top of the revised list that came out within a few days of the first one. Attending and speaking at Saskatchewan conventions.
Did this just happen? I am in the province he oversees.
He is in workers picture at Portage Convention Manitoba. Which was this week
July 18 to 23. 2023
Hi wingsFT11, can you tell us where you saw that? Whose name is at the top now?
Jim’s at the top again. But beside it it says ‘absent until January’ Whatever that means. He has been overseer in my province.
I had no knowledge of that letter until I read it this morning and did no ask to have my name added. Please remove my name.
Wendell, your name was passed on as someone who read it and wanted their name added. We apologize and will remove have the authors remove your name.
Just to be clear not adding my name is not because of fear I am beyond that but I will never add my name to something I have not read or do not totally agree with. There are a lot of good ideas thrown out but maybe it is time to pause and let God do his work. If I wanted a totally structured organization I would have joined a mainstream church which I tried briefly and found wanting. I am totally disgusted with the horrors I read about and the reported lack of compassion for the victims. A worker wrote and told me the things written on these sites ” Some of it is true, some is partly true, and some is false.” If they are not true refute them and back it up otherwise they will be taken as truth. So I will just sign off as disgusted, dismayed and disillusioned. Please God fix it.
Hi Wendell,
I agree with you….. Be Wish as a serpent and harmless as a dove.
In the year 2000 a few friends, myself, and a worker had a website posted about CSA within the fellowship and ministry. We tried to educate, inform, and warn the brain damage can cause on the victims for many years to come. Sometimes it has made the CSA victims to kill themselves…. It was VERY ugly and nasty traumatic experiences for the victims for years to come.
I posted articles of how the RCC leadership moved their pedophiles priests from one parish to another to escape the laws, how they tried to silence the victims. I was hoping the ministry would NOT fall into the same traps as the RCC has done.
We feel sad the friends and workers didn’t take these things seriously so, now we are paying a great price for it. When I was in the work from 1986-93 we had no guideline on how to handle CSA so, we told the victims to “Forgive and Forget.” and move on…
Thanks, be to God, now… MOST of the overseers, workers, the friends are aware of CSA within the ministry and the fellowship and want to encourage the overseers to KNOW and UNDERSTAND how serious, brain damage can do to the victims. The victims need professional help, prayers, and with the help from God to overcome theirs traumatic experiences.
God is cleansing, purifying the ministry, and the Church like Christ did with the 7 churches in the Book of Revelation, 5 churches were in terrible, horrible shapes of sexual immorality, false doctrines, false apostles were among them teaching false doctrines, eating foods offer to idols, and so on…
God is pruning cutting away the bad branches, within the ministry and the friends so, it will have more room for good fruits to produce on the vine. Don’t throw the BABY/the fellowship and the TRUE ministry of Christ OUT with the bath water…. After the cleansing, purifying the Ministry and the Churches will be Safed and healthy for the gospel to go forth with POWER from God.
God KNOWS what He is doing, and His timing is always perfect. Paul wrote in I Cor. 13:8 For we can do NOTHING against the Truth, but for the Truth.
Men and women who try to destroy and wipe out Jesus 2×2 apostolic ministry and New Testament fellowship God said they will NEVER able to do it because it is God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit established and approved by them. Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 “Upon this ROCK/Christ I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it.”
Let God do the separating the Tares from the Wheat…. Don’t try to play God and do the uprooting of the tares yourself, because you might pluck out the Wheat along with it. BE Patience! God is very good in what He does.
Very thoughtful and well written letter. There have been letters written to Ray, Barry, and Dale in the past that were never acknowledged, never mind responded to. I would suggest that this letter either be hand delivered or sent by registered mail. My fear is that a lot of correspondence to them is flagged to end up in their “spam” folder. There should be no out for them to say, “I never received that”.
“Those currently in the highest authority (Barry, Ray, and Dale specifically) humbly accept accountability and step down from leadership for the good of the church so that healing can begin”.
What is NOT understood here is the leadership, and structure presently being ostracized, IS the church! It started with the same principles and it continues today and it’s not going to change. If people don’t like the Ray and Barry duo they would not have liked the William Irvine and Coony duo that started the religion either. The people did kick out Irvine and then Coony split with his people, but Irvine and the Coony people still practice what these two guys put into practice.
I eventually realized this format was essentially a dictatorship, lead by a few men that rule the way THEY see fit. It will never change. YOU can change by not being afraid and controlled by these men. Praying and reading your Bible is essential and God will give you the guidance you need to change and where you need to be, to have peace and growth with Him. And, it will not be with the Ray and Barry team. You would have better luck with the Ben and Jerry team than those two. At least then you could enjoy good ice cream!
It’s troubling to me that such a strong letter is even necessary, but if it fails to trigger the response we so desperately need, they will prove by their inaction that our leadership is mired in corruption and deceit. For the sake of our fellowship, let’s pray they are moved to do the right thing before God and man.
In Christian consternation and love, Monica
I’m concerned with the ongoing great focus on Barry and Ray. While I understand that they have unwisely been involved in trying to cover up some of the horrible things that have been going on, is it really going to solve the problems just to remove two or three specific individuals?
And the new structure that’s proposed, I see so many pitfalls in this as well. Wherever there are people with power and authority, there will be these types of problems, whether it’s Barry and Ray, or a council of elders. It feels like there are some who are wanting power and place for themselves, whether directly or just by the act of taking it away from others, and that doesn’t feel like the work of God to me. Humans tend to want to follow someone who asserts authority, and that’s what got us where we are today, blind following of humans instead of Jesus. Following new people who are trying now to assert power is not going to end any differently.
I suppose what feels missing is humility, on all fronts. I could not sign my name to this letter for this reason, despite agreeing with some of it.
More and more, I feel that the answer is quiet fellowship that’s focused on Jesus, with others who love him, without any sort of structure/leadership. Whatever is created by man will fail sooner or later.
To anon
More and more, I feel that the answer is quiet fellowship that’s focused on Jesus, with others who love him, without any sort of structure/leadership. Whatever is created by man will fail sooner or later.
Love the fellowship , but I do agree with you.
I agree. Those who are sincere in following Jesus need to separate ourselves from any who have fallen in this trap, and those who – by their inaction – are condoning it. Quiet fellowship with one another is ALL we need. The sunday and wednesday meetings I go to are few in number – but the BREAD that is brought is pricless.
I do agree that Dale, Barry, and Ray need to step down, they have overstepped boundaries, big time.
Will that solve all the problems? No, but at least we will be relieved of three big problems .
No confidence –
I don’t disagree with you at all. But I fear demanding they step down isn’t the best way to handle it. We all have to follow our individual conscience, which is hopefully guided by the Lord, in what steps we take next.
Stepping down due to pressure is one thing. Conviction to confessing with heartfelt honesty, to all at each gathering (Convention) is another. Repenting from actions going forward, is an anticipated trust which only the Lord can restore in the heart of each. I’ve read the words “we have a public self, a private self and a secret self”. The Lord knows all.
I appreciated your letter so much and the spirit in which you wrote it. I didn’t quite feel free to sign it because I feel like we need to consider some other points.
Why are we asking for workers to step down and waiting for that to happen? We know what is right and are directed by the Spirit to know what is called for in any given situation. We need to act accordingly – like those brothers who took Robert Corfield out of the work, and like the St. Louis are elders and friends who got together and made Spirit-led decisions.
I’m a little dubious about setting up ‘councils.’ We could be replacing something that failed with another system that may or may not be any better. It seems that in Acts the friends were much more loosely organized. When a concern or issue became apparent, those who were concerned got together, talked about it, made decisions, took action, and that was it. They just went back to having meetings and fellowship as usual until another need arose – which might not even involve the same group of people. If you have a ‘council,’ they might not be the people close to the next issue and therefore not be in the position to make good decisions. Why can’t we deal with issues as they come up? That’s how we run the non-spiritual side of our life. If a person becomes aware of an issue, they can contact anyone they feel is involved, in addition to anyone else they feel would be helpful, get together and work out a solution. If it is CSA, it gets reported to the authorities first, of course. Let’s just keep it simple. As soon as you set up ‘councils’, you’re back into an ‘organization,’ which can be misused or become unwieldy.
If we proceed as above, and people like Ray, Barry, and Dale do not tolerate it, then they will have to step away because we will be moving on without them.
NY Mom, I am not sure we can get away without an ‘organization’. Hierarchy and organization evolve any time people that come together for a common cause – be that a business, city, school, church, or even a family reunion. Causes require decisions and collaboration.
The key is, do you have checks and balances in the decision-making?? How do you make sure they are in place? Businesses accomplish this with a board of directors. The US government accomplishes this, in part, by having 3 branches of government to balance out interests. Churches accomplish this with having an elder board for overall direction, and maybe an administrative committee for overseeing finances.
So… how does this fellowship want to accomplish ‘checks and balances’? That is where the proposal of a council comes from.
Bill Helm’s name was added via a misunderstanding, and will be removed from future iterations of this letter.
Magical thinking. This is what comes to mind when reading this letter and response. I would love the friends to enact positive change for the Truth. We sincerely miss some of what the Truth offered us, but unless we are engaging in magical thinking, how can fruitful change occur so that this Way is scriptural and not immoral?
Please ask yourself these questions:
Do you believe that the ministry has to take part as the current 2×2 structure? Too many people believe and hang their hat on this- homeless ministry with meetings in the home to ever let this go. (Please take a step back and consider that Peter and Judas were married. The workers are not the apostles and could never meet the criteria of the apostles. Making workers meet this unscriptural and unnatural sacrifice will continue to result in immoral behavior and attract and retain individuals with atypical and concerning personalities.)
Will the overseers ever step down? Why would they? They have all the power and control and have no where to go.
Will the Overseers reveal the millions of dollars they have? This seems doubtful. This is a very complex “Way”. Far more complex than any church.
Can people drop the traditions- dress, manner of speech, removed way of “connecting”.? Very doubtful. Too many people equate traditions to Godliness and enjoy the vanity and pride it affords.
Will Truth ever consider that giving to the poor and helping the needy does not mean to just to the workers? Doubtful. This has never been preached from what I remember after being in meetings for over 40 years.
Will Truth stop being exclusive and acknowledge and respect the work God and His Holy Spirt have had in “outsider’s” lives for over 2,000 years and maintaining the Church? Doubtful. Feeling exclusive makes people feel special and entitled to God’s favor and has been part of the teaching since the Truth was founded.
Will Truth openly and often acknowledge its founder and origins? Doubtful? I went over 40 years without hearing about William Irvine and now know The Truth was started by an imbalanced, charismatic, and false prophet.
So where do we go from here? First step must be to stop magical thinking. Your children’s souls and own souls deserve more. While I dearly wish this Way could be fixed, it seems impossible. It appears that God is dismantling it due to decades of immorality and foundational darkness.
This may be the best post ever – agree with every word.
I meant the comment by Magical thinking, not this post.
Magical thinking: Very wise. What experience woke you?
We woke when we read Acts 2:14-:39 and realized the 12 preached to Jews exactly as Jesus did. The 12 apostles doctrine as the witnesses for Jesus to bring thatGovernment of Nation of Israel back to God.
And the clincher is the Apostles Doctrine in Acts 2:42-46 Ya All grab a pencil and paper and write down :44 – :45 Those who believed the 12 apostles sold
and :46 were continually in the TEMPLE wow — ??!!
Yes, Fondational Darkness is the secrete to happily and protectant ignorant.
It was the wikipedia page about the 2×2’s that started us questioning the ‘truth’s’ foundation and doctrine, which led us to leave in March. I had never heard about the history or its founder. Now I feel very disillusioned and deceived. Now I realize how silly it is that I had researched most Amazon purchases than I have researched our church.
Magical thinking,
I, too, agree with everything you said. I can no longer sit in a meeting, knowing the things I have learned in the past few months. The TRUTH about “The Truth” is devastating to those of us who grew up believing all of it. Thankfully, my eyes have been opened. I now know that the only mediator I need between my Father and myself is JESUS. It has been difficult making the break, but so necessary for me. (Of course, it’s a personal choice, and not for everyone.)
The TRUTH about “the Truth”… book title anyone?
Preserving the truth. Well documented Author Cherie Kropp
Magical thinking, Just saying and Max: After the brutal Journey of removal of believing our IDOLS; we read by chance ::
2 Corinthians 5:14 -:15 informs us of the Love of Christ. Henceforth: we should NOT live unto ourselves but unto hime who died for us and ROSE again.
The ‘kicker’ was a hard Truth.
We had NEVER heard this before.
2 Cor. 5:16 Wherefore ‘henceforth’ KNOW we NO MAN after the flesh
(hold on- here it is! a foundational Truth)
YEA, though we have KNOWN “Christ after the flesh”(we know his fleshly
ministry to Israel:,= Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
YET NOW “Henceforth” know we him NO MORE((in HIS fleshly ministry))
(We only Know Him “Risen”!)
Now your thought is: We have Jesus (who after resurrection is referred to as The Christ). ALL we need is Jesus who IS RISEN
Romans 8:33-:34. Who shall Lay anything to the charge of God’s elect?
It is God that justifieth!!!
:34. Who is he that condemneth?
IT IS “Christ that died!!!, yea rather, THAT is “Risen” again
WHO is even at the Right Hand of God,….- :39 “maketh intercession
for us. ((Yes, you are sooo right — Just saying! Thank you!)
and then :35 – :39 WHO shall separate US??? (How dare they abuse innocent
souls with their decision to Kick- someone-out and make them
think they are going to Hell! and worse yet; then tell lies to others
as they seek to cover their own tracks and make themselves good)
And finishes with :37 Nay, in all these things WE are more than conquerors
HOW? through HIM that LOVES US!!!
:38 – :39 NOTHING shall be able to separate US from the “love of God
which is “in Christ Jesus” OUR Lord”!!
Oh, How can we make it, read it, write it enough to let all know our Hope is in Jesus Christ our RISEN redeemer! and be free from the ‘Traditions of Men.
AND Colossians 3:1-:4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which
are above where Christ sits on right hand of God. and you read :2-:4.
Only knowing the promises of God to us – as result of Jesus death, burial and
“resurrection” (1 Cor.15:1-4) Yes, ministry by Paul): are we able to rise above the Brutal Journey of the reality THAT we BELIEVED in a gospel that is not even in our Bibles- God’s very Word: which is 1 Peter 1:11 the very Spirit of Christ!
Same Vibe.
Numbers 16:1-3
Now Korah the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men; and they rose up before Moses with some of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, representatives of the congregation, men of renown. They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “You take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?”
How did that turn out?
Pretty sure Moses and Aaron were not involved in pedophilia or in covering up for pedophiles.
Bill H and Wendell M, your names are being removed per the requests above. If this is wrong, please go into the document and re-sign.
Magical Thinking
You have real vision and awareness and it would do wonders for everyone in the professing community to read what you wrote and then, read it again! I have walked much the same path as you. It took me a very personal assult in my life from the workers to realize what you wrote with such clarity. Good job and thank you for the post.
Please note that the suggestion path forward section of the “ Friends’ Letter to Overseers and Church” is merely a suggestion. Likely no none person has the exact solution for a path forward. The letter proposes a path that is meant to provide a check and balance that does not exist today. A limited term for members of the council prevents the council from being stuck with long term members who may not have the best judgement or interests at heart. By contrast, with our current overseer system, if a poor overseer is in place it’s very hard to get them removed as we are seeing. The proposed council system reduces the risk of poor overseers staying in position and also prevents a poor council from staying in place by rotating people in and out.
We would love to sign this letter but we are worried about our work colleagues doing a Google search of our names that connects us to the Church. Sad to say but we have our professional reputations to protect!
Since the letter is only shown as an imbedded PDF or JPEG in the google doc, it won’t appear in a google search.
That is not factual. Search engines can search embedded documents and use optical character recognition. Also noticed some names are on multiple times or with slight variations. No names should be added by the poster. That makes the whole list of names a farce.
North America, I guess it comes down to, to what level are you willing to go to defend injustice? It’s the age-old question of, do I stick my neck out and risk persecution and ostracizing, or not? A number of people here would submit that our professional and personal relationships are less important than meaningful change in this fellowship that protects our vulnerable loved ones. But it’s definitely a personal decision.
Sorry, that came across a little more “guilt-trippy” than intended.
Anonymous, since you aren’t using your name, don’t you think it is a wee bit hypocritical to criticize North America for not using his name?
‘North America’ you write that you are worried your work colleagues might find out you are connected to the Church. Your commitment to your faith is admirable, some would say martyr-like.
This letter is the definition of “loud minority”. I am one of the friends and would never support such a letter. Please specify that this is a letter from a small minority and does not reflect what the majority thinks. I personally know Barry and Ray. Their behavior is opposite to what is described in this letter. They have a humble and childlike spirit and have certainly never abused their authority from what I saw. I do not support them stepping down to appease this loud minority. Seems like the group here is trying to find someone to blame, but I’m telling you that it’s certainly not these individuals.
The quiet majority want to expunge the corruption and deception. It requires new leadership, there is no other way to do it.
Mmmm, small minority you say? Any facts?
My experience with Ray Hoffman has been very dissapointing, not a person I could look up to as an example.
Watchman you note, “The quiet majority want to expunge the corruption and deception. It requires new leadership, there is no other way to do it”. While I and many other people agree with you, HOW do you get this done? With leadership comes power, influence and enforcement. Plus, don’t forget the millions of dollars they control, with their name on. What you and I have, Watchman, is just one little voice each. I know, David did take down Goliath.
One more little voice
Our leader true is Jesus, we shall not cannot fail
When one considers how difficult it was in America to remove an electorally defeated candidate from office, we can be sure that removing an unelected, unaccountable official is effectively impossible.
What can you do? The primary value of professing for the vast majority of Friends is the fellowship meetings. Keep going there but consider not attending gospel meetings and conventions, and consider withholding money and lodgings where appropriate. Keep your fellowship and let the ministry go out in faith.
Yes!
I ask each and every one that signed this letter, do you REALLY believe that Hoffman, Barkley, and Shultz will give up their unilateral and absolute power on July 17, 2023?Name me one person anywhere in history who gave up power voluntarily – very few, if any, ever did. People with this type of power almost always eliminate the dissenters. If you want to stay in the group, you may want to reconsider your request. Otherwise, tomorrow may be your last Sunday morning meeting, at least in “taking part”. Not saying any of you are wrong, just need to know what you are dealing with. Three cornered rattlesnakes are very dangerous – many a man in the West found this out the hard way. God will eliminate the power of these three in His time – no mortal man will ever take it.
Good point Max. A similar letter was sent to ALL overseers a month or so back – it was predictably ineffective.
Some discussion on how this letter COULD have its intended effect:
(1) If this letter is hand-delivered, i.e. the letter-supporting friends in the area schedule a sit-down with each of the 3 overseers, this has a chance of being effective. Even CEOs will step down when they realize that the company has not interest in them leading any longer.
(2) the right setting and the right people need to be involved in this. Having the right people in the room for delivery for this sort of news is important. The CEO does not just get an email when they are asked to step down.
(3) Perhaps there would be a few workers right now who have the ear of Dale, Barry, and Ray, that can do some prep work, i.e. ‘foam the runway’ to use that cliche.
(4) If we are going to be practical about this, there should also be a proposed exit plan. What role are Dale, Barry, and Ray are expected to play going forward? Out of the ministry would probably be most appropriate. If so, then there needs to be discussion about severance, and about timeline, and about future expectations.
(5) There should be a global communication sent out to the friends, with a letter to be read by the elders in their Sunday morning fellowship meeting, indicating that these 3 overseers have been effectively dismissed.
(6) If there are any bank accounts over which they do not have sole control (I have no idea) then you learn who the joint/custodial account owners are and see if those funds can be frozen.
Undoubtedly all 3 are monitoring CCF and Wings, and know that this letter is coming. So they are preparing as well. Either for a fight, or for their upcoming resignation. I would hope for the latter given they are wise men and hopefully will know when their time is done.
If the letter writers are not ready to do 1-6 above, then they probably should consider postponing an official delivery of the letter. We really DO want this to have its intended effect. We have the support of 500+ willing to put their names down, but the delivery needs to be done right.
Anonymous – Good plan, but in all due respect, a CEO reports to a Board of Directors, who in turn report to Stockholders. These three report to nobody. So, if they do not want to step down, they will not. Why should they? Go from being a big dog to a nobody? That is not in the human nature of most, especially those with power. But, you can try. You all just need to be aware of the possible consequences (i.e. excommunication for all that sign the letter). Still think it best to have patience and let God bring them down in his time. His timing is always best. The Bible is packed with relevant examples.
When writing these letters it’s important to recognize the level of power the overseers hold. It is far more than a boss because they have absolute power and control over a worker’s life. If they do not like a worker, an overseer can unilaterally and swiftly make a worker’s whole life change. No worldly boss can make changes to the extent in an individual’s life as an overseer. This level of power is not healthy and leads to fear and prevents workers from making a stand and following God first.
This applies to even regional overseers. In divorce and remarry decisions I have heard Jerome Fandel say that his ‘hands are tied’, which clearly shows that even ‘higher up’ workers are afraid and unable to follow God’s direction over their overseer’s direction.
Unchecked power and control results in immoral behavior across all levels.
While I believe the top overseers need to step down due to immorality and indifference to suffering, we must more importantly recognize that the current structure will continue to result in immoral behavior.
When writing these letters it’s important to recognize the level of power the overseers hold. It is far more than a boss because they have absolute power and control over a worker’s life. If they do not like a worker, an overseer can unilaterally and swiftly make a worker’s whole life change. No worldly boss can make changes to the extent in an individual’s life as an overseer. This level of power is not healthy and leads to fear and prevents workers from making a stand and following God first.
This applies to even regional overseers. In divorce and remarry decisions I have heard Jerome Fandel say that his ‘hands are tied’, which clearly shows that even ‘higher up’ workers are afraid and unable to follow God’s direction over their overseer’s direction.
Unchecked power and control results in immoral behavior across all levels.
While I believe the top overseers need to step down due to immorality and indifference to suffering, we must more importantly recognize that the current structure will continue to result in immoral behavior.
Wondering if D.B. Reynolds of Ohio who signed on 7/17/2023 is the same Don Reynolds of Ohio that was kicked out of “the work” by Ray and Barry for CSA in Peru. If so, makes sense that Don would sign the letter pleading for their removal. After all, CSA coverup is almost is as bad as the the act itself. Both are very bad things in the sight of God.