D. Beth Laswell Boelter
My letter sent today to Barry Barkley, Ray Hoffmann, Lyle Schober, Duane Hopkins, Jim Price, and Bruce Shaw.
My heart has been so moved to write to you, some 14 years after we experienced the “calling” to advocate for a young, single woman in our area, who cautiously shared with me the experience of sexual harassment she had recently suffered, with Leslie White. Some of you would have received my letter of concern, and request that Leslie be removed from the work, until further details could be determined, back in 2009. That letter went unanswered, except for Jim Price. Jim’s statement was simply that Leslie liked to acknowledge women’s beauty, as a compliment, but he was not aware of any situations that caused undue concern, in fact, all he had spoken with were of the agreement that Leslie presented no issues of concern.
As scripture dictates, upon hearing the full story from the victim, we immediately got in touch with you, Barry, and along with a witness (Chicago elder) met in our home, around the dining table with Tim and I, The Victim, a Chicago elder, Leslie White and Barry Barkley.
Leslie’s first words upon entering our home were, “is this a jury, and what are the charges?” There had been no communication on our part except with Barry, as to the deep concern we had for what had transpired in conversation with the victim. How was it that Leslie’s first comment was “what were the charges?” Was he aware of something that had transpired between he and the victim that could be considered worth a jury? Or with someone else?
After beginning with a prayer, Barry asked that each of the two share their accounts.
To explain the setting, the purpose for which Leslie had invited The Victim to join him and his companion for dinner (Jan 2009) was that he was going to give her the opportunity to return to meetings, and have a part, following her divorce several years earlier. What occurred was a denial on Leslie’s part of any of the questions the victim stated that Leslie had asked her, until he convicted himself by stating that he had in fact, asked her about orgasm. This was the proof that God had forced out of Leslie’s mouth. A question of this matter was surely proof that there had been a conversation that was way out of line, inappropriate, and leading to something far worse. Where does it ever become appropriate for the workers to ask questions of such a nature? You are not trained professionals in this area, nor should you really have any authority to speak on it, if you are living a celibate life. Yet, there seemed to be no reaction from Barry, whatsoever, as to how vile this conversation had been.
Some of those inappropriate and explicit questions can be viewed in the letter posted by Laura van Dijken, as it was detailed in one of the many excerpts from victims of Leslie’s.
I am the advocate mentioned in this victim’s excerpt. If you have not read that letter written to Leslie White, and sent 6/24/23, please refer here for a list of his questions:
1. Did she ever have pleasure with her husband?
2. How often did they have sex?
3. Could her husband get an erection?
4. Did he ejaculate?
5. What did she do to excite him?
6. Did she get him to masturbate?
7. Did he think her body was attractive?
8. Did he look at other women?
9. In the times they did have sex, was he able to get her wet?
10. “Any man with one red blood cell would have sex with her.” LW
11. LW said he would have sex with her.
12. LW said he would even marry her if he were younger.
13. LW said she was an absolutely beautiful woman with a beautiful body.
14. LW told her that he loved her 4 or 5 times during the evening conversation.
Leslie raised his hand to the heavens and stated, “God is my witness, I have never had a conversation with anyone about sexual matters, and I’ve never gone alone with a woman for dinner.” “I was a fool for going alone with the victim.” “I was a fool.” Within 30 minutes of that statement, however, he began talking about another couple he was counselling in IN, and mentioned the man had purchased “toys,” to which he had again contradicted what he’d just said!
Barry requested that Leslie not have any further conversations of this sort, with anyone, that he not travel alone, and that the subjects he chose to speak on in gospel meetings would not be inappropriate or ones that would make others feel uncomfortable, especially with children present.
What followed is the important part of my story and is meant to clarify that while we tried to advocate for this young woman, we were met with attitudes and opinions that I was not prepared for. I assumed that the workers response would be swift towards removing Leslie until they could make a better determination as to If there had been any other incidents like this, caring concern towards the victim, and appreciation of our efforts to protect other innocent women.
As Barry rode with my husband to the airport the next morning, he stated that it was best not to surge ahead of God in judgment. Barry told Tim that there would have to be further consideration as to whether this was a one-time occurrence, of which he stated that he knew of no other reports of this type of behavior, but if there was found to be a pattern of this behavior, then there would be a far greater matter to deal with. Barry did state, however, that he had received a report from a young sister worker that felt uncomfortable by Leslie’s conversation with her in front of younger brother workers, following the Special Meetings just recently completed in IN! We believed Barry’s statement, however, as we’d never heard of anything being reported against Leslie, or for that fact, any other of the workers!
Within weeks of the meeting in our home, my father called to tell me that his brother had just had a visit with Leslie, in Southern IN, when Leslie traveled there by himself; he was going on from there to another of my Aunt and Uncle’s, just to visit! My extended family knew nothing of this request Barry had made, nor of my involvement as an advocate for the victim, nor the sexual harassment the victim had experienced, nor did they have any reason to question why Leslie had come for an unannounced visit! My father knew more, however, as I had shared my heart with him for many hours during the months and months of this difficult experience.
About a month following our meeting, Barry called just to see how we were faring. I explained that the concern for protecting innocent victims, as well as LW’s spiritual well-being, his mental well-being, were still of greatest concern, as well as concern for future events such as this. Barry stated that it was a difficult situation because he was very familiar with both parties, and he didn’t believe either one to be purposefully speaking untruths, however, things did not line up with their stories, “it was a gray area,” because there was no proof of anything! He stated that some people say things quickly, and forget what they have said, and that perhaps things have become enlarged in the victim’s mind. This is called intimidation, casting doubt, and minimization, which is deflecting on what really happened!
To this, I stated, “but Barry, you do recall the statement that Leslie made, at the table, which was a confession of his behavior, don’t you?” Barry said he did not recall what I meant! I asked for permission to repeat Leslie’s statement, twice, before hesitatingly repeating what Leslie had said regarding orgasm. Barry said, “I had forgotten that.” This was the most incriminating and defining statement of the entire conversation that night. How could it have been forgotten?
Before anyone questions how I have recall of specific statements, I will add that every conversation I had with anyone during this timeframe, in regards to this subject, I was taking notes. I have documented records with dates!
Barry mentioned that they had met with two additional Senior male workers very recently, to discuss the situation, of which they agreed that Leslie should be carefully observed for any out of line discussions, in meetings, or with women, but especially not being left alone. I then reminded him of that request he had made in our home, and told him that Leslie was not following those orders, because I’d been made aware of his visits in IN to my relatives! Barry finished our conversation by saying that he would rather err on the side of being too slow to make the next move, rather than acting swiftly. Had this incriminating statement even been relayed to the other brothers?
The next 6 months were consumed with emails from Bruce Shaw, first wanting us to meet with 2 additional workers and the victim, which was then canceled because Barry had told him it would be worthless, a useless “he said, she said,” meeting like the last one! And, because I felt such an urgency for this matter, as Leslie continued to preach in gospel meetings, visit in homes, travel alone and with a co-worker, it seemed that nothing had changed! The victim was in touch with Barry, pleading that something more be done. She relayed to me his comments: It seemed as if the only way he would believe there were others harmed by Leslie was to give the names of others that the victim had had conversations with, to prove that this was not an isolated event. Barry again reiterated that he would not “surge ahead of God.” He stated that he didn’t think there was a problem with Leslie. When she asked what Barry was planning to do, he stated that he was choosing to do nothing! The victim then told Barry that she felt sure that Leslie would do it again, and if he did, the responsibility would then be with Barry for doing nothing. Barry ended the conversation by stating, “Just remember, you’ll suffer the consequences for every choice you make. If I remove or rebuke a brother, I suffer the consequences for that.” Does this not imply that Barry is more concerned about Leslie White than any of his victims!
Here’s where we began to realize that some unexpected things were happening, due to our continued involvement! I became aware that our names had been removed from the general friends’ email list. Our names were missing! Not that we would have even known we weren’t getting emails, but friends in the meeting realized that we had been left off the list, and thought it was just a simple mistake. This is called ex-communication, and shunning. And why, because I would not bury my head nor promise not to mention it again, as Bruce had requested!
I did not irresponsibly send emails to everyone I knew, in fact, I said nothing to any of those I continued to meet with on Sundays and Wednesdays, following the initial one-on-one meeting I had with each of the families, just to make them aware of the situation and what we felt moved to do.
I voiced my concern to Duane Hopkins via phone call, and two emails. I was told to leave it to the workers, and that trusting them would bring peace, rather than the emotional upset I was seeing my children and myself experience because of the dire circumstances we were facing in being called “troublemakers, unforgiving, hard-hearted, and being involved in issues that were not ours to be involved with.” I was also told by Duane that it was NOT a practice to move workers from place to place, after incidences like this, or worse! We know differently and have evidence of workers consistently being moved to another state when accusations have been made so they can remain unaddressed and unresolved. Duane also mentioned that in a recent workers meeting in TN, Leslie had been put on “probation.” He was to be watched for anything that was out of line, and he had promised to never do it again. Was this relayed to other workers, though, and friends? Was anyone made aware of this probation?
I heard the statements underlined above in the Sunday meetings for 1.5 years, nearly every meeting, by about half of those present, and from workers that visited the meeting too. I drove to meeting feeling nauseous and so anxious for what might be said, and every meeting except when there were visitors, it was the same. And, I cried all the way home! Instead of feeling free to uphold the standard that should’ve been set, advocating for victims of harm, supporting those willing to take a stand against abuse and harm, I believe that every one of those people were afraid of losing their place, losing their respect by the workers, and they’d rather lose friends than speak out, so they said nothing to support us in this effort, or to call out those that were doing wrong that they themselves had previously been aware of. Perhaps they spoke of the situation among themselves, but none came back to us for further clarification.
The victim requested outside intervention, and a mediation specialist heard both parties separately, and then together for a final meeting with the victim, Leslie, Jim Price, (Colorado Overseer), acting as a witness, and the mediation specialist. Leslie again denied all that he had been accused of saying. The mediation specialist gave a clear and dire warning, that unless a system was put into place with the church making it known that reporting abuse could be done without fear of retaliation, shunning, and disbelief, abuse would continue within the ministry, and it would become difficult to stand the test of time. He asked for a written statement that this system would be put into place, which was denied, stating that only Barry Barkley could make that decision. Ministry Safe classes were suggested as a means of making the worker staff aware of boundaries, how to be respectful of those in the homes they were staying, CSA, SA, etc.
Any workers taking this class would surely have no longer been ignorant of child sexual abuse, sexual abuse, and its effects on victims, even though many workers and overseers continue to state that they’ve only begun to understand the consequences of these acts! How is this even possible? It doesn’t take a class for us to understand what is morally and criminally wrong with sexual assault, child sexual assault, sexual harassment, and rape! I want to repeat this; 14 years after Ministry Safe classes were encouraged and requested for workers to take, workers and overseers are still saying that they had no idea of the long term effects of child sexual assault!
In January, 2010, we met with Bruce Shaw and Mark Peters. After berating me that I had written and sent a letter about Leslie all over the internet, of which I did not do, (my 8-page letter was sent to three workers), Bruce said he had not read it, nor had any intention to. Bruce stated that no matter what Leslie had been accused of or convicted of, his behavior had no reflection on the ministry, or Bruce, himself, and he actually didn’t care what Leslie did! READ THAT AGAIN! We countered that statement with the belief on our part that it truly is a reflection on the ministry, and we are to be responsible for the behavior of our brothers, especially the workers who are acting as shepherds, loving and protecting the innocent sheep.
Bruce followed that by requesting that I should no longer feel free to take part in meeting, until I had sought out Leslie, forgiven him, and then and only then, could I consider having a part in meeting! I repeated his request, to be sure I had heard correctly, as I was completely stunned, and taken off guard! Removing someone from the meetings because they stand by a victim of sexual harassment is so, so wrong. Our heart and home had always been open to countless workers, friends, and those who needed a listening ear in times of hardship or times of fellowship. Not only were they punishing me for supporting a victim of sexual harassment, and trying to bring the terrible danger to light, but I was being silenced! This is ex-communication!
Tim mentioned those verses in Matt. 7 v.15, “beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep clothing but are ravening wolves…” and the real danger that we must be on guard against. Bruce became enraged at this statement, slammed his Bible shut, and stated that they were leaving! I pleaded with Bruce that we were simply quoting verses that warn us, and we should heed the warnings, but he would have no part of further conversation.
I’m stating the obvious when I say that the harm, the hurt, the distrust, the feeling of being abandoned by those you’ve spent most of your lives with, is something that cannot fully be explained unless you’ve lived it. Upon hearing of the DB case, and what became evident from those opening his laptop, and as his victims began coming forward, I immediately felt nauseous, triggered by the pain and anguish for how we’d been treated, the Victim had been disbelieved and labeled, and the anxiety, PTSD, and other feelings that came to the surface, for victims, both adults and children, of this vile behavior.
It’s obvious now that these types of abuse have been going on within the church for generations, but when you are fully aware of it, and choose to move the workers responsible to another state, or when another overseer comes to a state after the perpetrator has been moved, and then claims, “well, I wasn’t here at the time, so I really don’t know much about it,” therein lies another problem. Either you’ve been told, but it’s best to act like you haven’t been, so that you can say you didn’t really know the details, therefore not being required to get involved, OR you weren’t told, and this only lets the perpetrator continue to harm innocent souls. Neither one is acceptable. And, it sets a dangerous precedent for your female sister workers, and innocent women, men and children not knowing who to watch out for!
Fourteen years have gone by since I pleaded with you to take some action, by emailing those at the highest authority, with specific details of this entire story for Leslie and any others that were guilty of harming innocent women, men, and children. They had no place as a minister, no matter their status, spending nights in homes with young children, visiting single women, taking liberties at convention grounds, or wherever else violators seek out victims. Fourteen years, and what has happened?
To my surprise, during the early summer of 2012, I received a call from a sister worker that had been a prior victim of LW, and that was Laura. Over three hours of conversation ensued, and my heart broke for her.
When my father heard that Ray Hoffmann would be at McCordsville Convention in 2012, he sought him out. My father, who was heartbroken over what had transpired, wanted to share a little about me, as he now had become an advocate not only for those being abused, but for those who were standing up against abuse! Ray’s first comment to my father was “they’re out,” speaking of our current status in the church! To clarify, my dad stated that it was because it had been forced; that’s what happens when you tell someone they can no longer take part in meeting, and how heartbreaking that it was over standing as an advocate! We weren’t acting immorally, behaving in ways that were detrimental to the church, or anything that is generally found as reason to silence someone!
More concerning though, was his statement, “if it weren’t for this sister worker, Leslie would still be in the work.” The exact statement was also repeated to me by a couple I was in touch with who resided far from IL; this couple lived in TX, and had more than one conversation with Ray Hoffmann about this situation. Once again, did no one know what Leslie was capable of, and had done to others, or were they hiding his behavior because of fear of man, loss of position, a loss to the church membership trust, or fear that something in their past would be revealed if they spoke up about Leslie’s behavior? I’ve recently read Ray’s comments to another victim of sexual abuse when asked about what the policy will be when others come forward to report, and he said, “well, it’s tricky because a lot of times victims who come forward are mentally unstable and while we feel for them, it’s hard to know what to do.” April, 2023!
What an outrage to make such a statement! This only emphasizes the lack of knowledge, empathy and understanding of how such a traumatic event can impact a victim. There is significant data demonstrating that a victim of any form of a sexual crime can experience PTSD, suicide, self-harm, depression, etc., as a direct result of trauma. The real question that should be asked is “what happened to you,” NOT “what is wrong with you.” The saddest part is that no one will or can ever fully understand or have compassion and empathy for something they have not experienced themselves. Maybe before judgment is handed out to the victim while the perpetrator is protected, you should ask yourself, “how would I feel if this had been my experience?”
It should be understood that victims will be emotionally impacted, feel unsafe, remain in fear, have nightmares and panic attacks, engage in hypervigilance and avoidance and shut down completely in response to the trauma. Any worker who does not fully understand this should have absolutely NO access to the victim or be a part of their healing. Because any subsequent involvement in the situation only serves to increase fear, lack of safety, and lack of trust while also recreating, re-triggering and reinforcing the initial trauma for the victim, which greatly reduces opportunities for healing.
My phone continued to ring, from 2009-2012. And, I continued to receive emails, and requests to speak to other victims of Leslie White. I didn’t reach out; they found me. The questioning was nearly the same; questions that no worker has the right to ask of the sexual relationship of a couple. It was simply a way to open the door for more, and depending on the strength of his victims, they may not have welcomed his advances, but they were too weak to fight it because of the name of Leslie White, and who would ever believe them if they told what had happened! I had conversations with women from CA, GA, OH, MO, IN, and TX, all of whom were deeply concerned for the harm they had endured by Leslie White. They sought me out; I listened, I sympathized, and I encouraged them that they were worthy of better, and that they should report it.
We all know that at this point, every aspect of business, sports, religious organizations, political figures, and the media have been accused of illegal behavior towards women. Abuse of women and children is not OK, in any of these scenarios, but especially by those who are supposed to be shepherds and caretakers of the sheep; those in the ministry, and those who are acting as “administrators” of the ministry.
Hiding the facts from parents is not OK, when they’re spending nights in the homes where young children reside. Hiding the facts from sister workers is not OK when they should know to be careful around some of these predators. Hiding perpetrators and violators of women by moving them around from state to state is not OK when they only find a new territory to terrorize with their abuse. And lastly, hiding what has been going on for years, as if it’s something you’ve just become aware of seems ludicrous and unbelievable. How many innocent victims have been hurt in the 14 years since my letter, and my pleading to not only remove Leslie from the work, but any others who were predators. What hurts worse? Is it hiding the facts for fear of losing those in the fellowship, or losing those in the fellowship because you’ve been hiding the facts and haven’t been transparent as to what you’ve allowed all these years?
My father spoke to Lyle Schober at one of the last conventions he was able to attend, and he made a point to spend a few minutes talking with him about this situation. Lyle told my father that what had happened in Chicago to our family “was a tragedy, and they all knew it.” However, upon my dad’s request to bring it to light, be transparent with the friends who we’d known for many years, to the workers throughout IL, and beyond, and to those who might’ve been harmed as well, Lyle stated that “as they have all been told one thing, for us to come back now and tell them something different would cause confusion.” In other words, they had no intention to say any more; no intention to reach out to the victims of sexual harassment, no intention to reach out to the advocates who were victimized, or the children of the advocates who witnessed the “outing” of their parents because they dared stand up to behavior unbecoming of anyone, let alone those who claimed to be “servants of God.” My father’s request that Lyle Schober contact me directly went unheeded, even though he was given my email address and personal phone number.
I’ve spoken to no one about any of this from our circle of friends in fellowship since this occurred in 2009, nor have they asked. I’ve heard that it was said “we” had said none of the friends were welcome in our home. That is completely untrue; we don’t know who said that, but we did not! Choosing not to host the meeting in your home is not the same as saying “no one is welcome anymore.” Bruce Shaw was told he was not welcome, simply due to the fact that his attitude about sexual harassment and assault with regards to a worker was that it was no reflection on the ministry, or himself, and therefore, he was no longer welcome in our home. His behavior was something I’ve never witnessed in a worker. We followed scripture even in this, I Corinth. 5:11. And, Matt. 18 as we followed the course as written: Go to the violator, then go to others if the violator doesn’t hear you, then tell the church if they further persist in not hearing you. Then, don’t have fellowship with the violator.
It’s a sad state of affairs when something so morally wrong, brought to the attention of the workers, ends in those reporting or advocating, to be “cast out,” by the hierarchy. No wonder people wait 5, 10, 20, 30, or more years to report something so vile and so wrong! And, no wonder advocates are far and few between, because they know they’ll take the fall for speaking up in defense of a victim who has been harmed. We were warned! The victim warned us that we needed to be absolutely sure we were prepared for what might come, if we got involved! There was no question that it was THE ONLY RIGHT THING TO DO, REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME! This behavior is so far from what Jesus lived and preached; we were given minds to reason right from wrong; we were given a conscience to know right from wrong, and a mouthpiece to speak when we see something wrong. What has been the course for too many years is reprimanding, ex-communicating, shunning, and speaking ill of those people who speak out. Forgiveness seemed to be their focus, but here’s what we know about forgiveness.
Forgiveness can help free one from the control of the person who harmed you, but forgiveness doesn’t mean forgetting or excusing the harm done to you. It would seem that their thinking was, if I forgave Leslie, I would never mention it again, regardless of the fact that he was still an active worker, and going against requests by his overseer, Barry Barkley. It’s this very control and fear that keeps victims from coming forward, and silence only allows the perpetrator the freedom to continue to hurt and harm others.
For too long, victims have been forced to bury what was done to them; children of child sexual assault will never fully recover, as it will be carried with them in every aspect of their life. It is unbelievable to me that you would not realize the depth of the harm, and not have such a burning desire to make things whole, acknowledge the victims and offer support and help for their recovery, acknowledge those who’ve served as advocates for others, who also then became victimized because they would not be quiet, acknowledge the violators and remove them, protect innocent children from CSA, and acknowledge the administrative staff that have taken liberties with others, and when found out, are simply moved to another state or location, where it all begins again.
I’ve very recently been told that LW stated to an acquaintance of mine that I was “mentally unstable, and emotionally troubled, and had been all of my life,” as he was sneaking around on his own, visiting people that I might have told this story to, just to see what they would report to him. How incredibly wrong that statement is, and how slanderous. Our home was an open home for workers, friends, those going through tough times and those who were rejoicing, for Wednesday night meetings for 13 plus years, on a weekly basis, and if you were to ask anyone of those friends who knew us well, I am certain you’d hear nothing but positive things. Defaming others is just part of the “control,” in order to keep things quiet when there is danger on the forefront.
I was even told that you, Barry, had remarked to someone very close to our family, that I had “misquoted and misrepresented you,” and for that, you chose not to have further conversation with me (late 2009). Barry, you’ve known me all my life; as well as my parents and my grandparents, and have known them all to be honorable people, not afraid to show compassion to others who were less fortunate, as well as being a friend to the old and young. If we don’t understand the directive to be our brother’s keeper, to carry them when they’re unable to carry themselves, to encourage and show love regardless of status or culture, then something is severely missing from our understanding of the Bible.
What are you afraid of? Is it hiding what those in the hierarchy are aware of, because everyone has something to hide, so it’s easier to shuffle them around, and carry on, and not be truthful when hard questions are asked? NOTHING is hidden from God, and shouldn’t that be a far greater concern and motivation to do the right thing, than fear of man, fear of losing place, losing respect, losing money, losing members?
For fourteen years, we’ve lived with the realization that nothing would have been done, had it not been for the sister worker who came forward with a much more damaging experience, even though she was repeatedly disbelieved, and labeled as “troubled.” At that point, it seemed the ministry became aware that there was only one thing to do, and that was to remove Leslie White from the work, even though it seemed “forced, and unfair.” We were told by only one worker, Jeff Thayer, that they all agreed it had been handled very poorly. But, he also said he wasn’t here when it happened, and really didn’t have many details. What was the response then, when a year later, Leslie sent letters to his CO followers, and others around the country, that the case had been dropped against him re: the sister worker, and he was free to rebuild from this damaging accusation? And what am I reading now, that Leslie is participating in gospel meetings, with permission by Ray Hoffmann? And visiting in homes like nothing has happened; homes where young children reside, and homes where the husband is away at work. And they had no idea of the suffering Leslie White has caused!
You would not be aware of the mental trauma, the anxiety, the recognition that you’re not believed, the effects of “removing” someone from having a place and part in the fellowship, the confusion that enters a child’s mind as a result of watching these things transpire, when their parents have been Godly and upright people, and the end result, far too often, of wanting no ties with religion!
What I evidently didn’t make clear 14 years ago in letters with Duane Hopkins, Lyle Schober, Jim Price, and conversations with you, Barry, I’m attempting to make clear now. It’s not enough to “leave it to the workers,” because you did nothing to rectify a situation even much larger than we were aware of, in covering those who were abusing children, men and women! It’s not enough to trust that it’s in the hands of those who are responsible, and will make the right decision, because you didn’t. And what has remained is the pattern of abuse, coverups, and lack of transparency to parents, worker staff, and the church, for which you are responsible.
Once again, I’m sending my true and honest statement of what transpired here in IL, back in 2009-2012 when a senior, administrative worker took liberty to speak in a way that is deemed “sexual harassment,” with a young single woman, and close friend of ours; she requested that we stand with her to help her advocate for the wrongdoing. What occurred as a result of our speaking the truth, out of respect for victims, respect for violators who need help, and care for the church is detailed above. The policy of encouraging reporting needs to become crystal clear if people are being asked to speak out. Victim shaming is not the answer, and this is not OK!
It seems apparent at this writing that this behavior, and much that we were not aware of by many other workers throughout the USA, Canada, and beyond has been going on for years, covered for years, and left to harm countless. I’ve never been able to understand how none of the workers would take a stand with us and require that there be a change. I had no idea how dark, criminal, and vile things really were among some of those men who stood on the platform, speaking from the Bible, as they upheld a “standard” for the one true Church we were to live by, yet were living lives most of us would never dream of, behind our backs.
People are sickened, sad, had their entire foundation upended, and are counting on you to do the right thing. What are they to expect? How is it possible to right the ship with the same leadership in charge who is unwilling to listen to those begging for change; leadership that has known and covered for others for far too long!
You did not surge ahead of God, but instead, thought you could handle the abuse by Leslie White best yourselves, by waiting, and praying for direction. I find it hard to believe that God didn’t give you a little tap on the shoulder, your conscience, to pull you in the right direction, to do the right thing. Maybe you weren’t listening. I hope everyone is listening now.
Beyond saddened and concerned in Illinois, USA – Beth Laswell Boelter
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Just curious. Did this Barry Barkley take over for Taylor Woods? My sister had an issue. Was caught wearing jeans. My cousin who was the Elder confronted her. My Mom died in 2012. Taylor was still alive. I’ve met him several times. I never professed but my sis did. Question involves excommunication , plus concerns about a worker , hmm , Neusbom Sp) who visited my Mom while she was in a nursing home. Would appreciate response. I appreciate all the wonderful info in your message.
Yes, and the Ray took over for Barry.
Beth, I am so thankful for everything you did and am appalled by how you are being treated. I am proud to call you my sister in Christ and will write to Ray this morning asking that you be invited to take part in all fellowship meetings immediately. The abuse you were forced to observe against others and subjected to yourself is an outrage and cannot be tolerated. Thank you for being strong and lead by God when the overseers were weak.
Think Hoffman will be presiding over the Newfoundland convention this week. Maybe someone there can ask him about this letter and his documented treatment of CSA/SA victims and providing cover for the criminals that committed them. Not sure if he will “submit” to providing a response, but it never hurts to try.
Ray is not in Newfoundland, plans changed, Dale is in Nl.
Don’t expect anything honest.
Ok, friends and fellow Christians – let’s see if the proof is in the pudding. Will anyone contact Matt Jensen and Ray Hoffman and ask that they invite this courageous soul to join us again, if she will trust us?
It does hurt us all when the workers use phrases like “they have a bad spirit” or ther nebulous statements to misinform the church about what is happening in cases like this. Had the overseers listened to this brave woman, our fellowship would be stronger today. If it was truly an issue of not understanding about CSA or SA in the past, are the overseers going to show repentance by asking those who left to come back with full status as a brother or a sister? Not just an invitation to come to gospel meetings…
I was raised in this way, a heart for God and once I left my ex husband for emotional abuse reasons I have not shared with anyone, I hear constantly how I am being slandered years later. Looks like people are finally waking up to the dog and pony routine. We the people enabled this by treating worker’s differently and handed out rose colored glasses. Now I only get invites occasionally to gospel Mtg like I need to start over. People think the Dean B issue is bad they would be shocked to hear about the real secret lives of some male workers.
Do tell! It’s time to stop protecting the frauds and charlatans!
All their dispicable deeds done in darkness will come to light, praise God!
They should be able to show up at meeting on their own with no invitation if they so desire. Who’s going to stop them now?
Amanda
It does zero good to contact Matt Jensen. HE WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYONE OR DO THE RIGHT THING. He could care less for the sheep, MANY have written MANY LETTERS. He is not interested in anything but protecting the institution
That makes me so sad. I met Matt when he was a young worker, and he seemed humble and kind. His sister told me he that wept upon hearing about Ira Hobbs. Has his heart hardened so much since then? Is being an overseer bad for one’s soul?
Absolutely!
I emailed Ray about this. No response, yet.
An atheist would have understood without being enlightened by Ministry Safe this was damaging, deviant unsafe behavior. All the damage done, all the lives forever changed by such vile that was enabled years longer only to ruin more lives because of … what? Pride? Power? Dark personal things you don’t want exposed yourself?
How angry God must be to have it attributed to His name and direction!
Yes! Well said!
I can’ not help but feel DB was struck dead with undeniable proof of criminal activity in his possession because God is so angry with the lies and deceit. Men professing to be God’s mouthpieces with ears that would not hear and eyes that would not see now having to face the fruit of their actions. It definitely feels like a time of cleansing, a time of introspection ourselves.
Hurting heart. I agree with you about DB! God made it crystal clear what he was doing! This purge should have happened before, but God used DB as a fulcrum to get these perpetrators exposed and out.
2 Peter 2 and Jude are very relevant right now! But I love the end of Jude. These spots have been in our feasts of peace, but now ye brethren, build yourselves up on your most holy faith!
Cast not away therefore your confidence!
This is the most damning letter yet. I’ve been trying to give the workers in authority the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been trying to see things from all points of view. It’s getting harder and harder.
“Bruce followed that by requesting that I should no longer feel free to take part in meeting, until I had sought out Leslie, forgiven him, and then and only then, could I consider having a part in meeting!”
Is there ANYONE left that doesn’t think the workers have overstepped their authority?
And this: “14 years after Ministry Safe classes were encouraged and requested for workers to take, workers and overseers are still saying that they had no idea of the long term effects of child sexual assault!”
Right! Its dispicable!
Yes, Louise. The ongoing lack of integrity and assumption that the friends will put up with this criminal activity must be rejected promptly and unequivocally.
Overseers have pleged zero tolerance for CSA/SA. Can we please also get zero tolerance for ostracism and excommunication?
Amen, mferguson!
Mferguson
Yes, we can get zero tolerance policy on numerous things. Then we will need to designate some police or watchmen to enforce the zero tolerance policy. Then we will find out there is actually some loophole in the zero tolerance policy; so we will plug the loophole with a new and improved policy. And so the story goes with laws. The lock on the door will generally only keep an honest man out, although it may deter a thief and give him second thoughts about having light fingers.
I have asked myself the question, how many laws would we need in the land if we were willing to follow Jesus two main commandments? Can you think of any/many?
Many?/some?/most? of us are now seeing the books being opened on collateral damage. Oh how nice that life would be, if those books were ne’er opened for me. From the collateral damage people have come to understand from the past from around the world, I hear a common refrain; “The situation wasn’t handled very well”. Oh okay. Got it. The sun came out, and everyone went out to play.
There was a man and his wife standing at a bus stop with their daughter. There was some others at the bus stop waiting for the same bus. There was some already on the bus. But an unfortunate thing happened; when the bus came, the bus driver did not have complete control and hit the man and his wife and their daughter. It seems from reports that the man and his wife and daughter were not maybe standing where they should have been and they were in the way. The man and his wife and daughter are hurt.
All the other people waiting at the stop got on the bus. And the bus driver drove off. He has to meet a schedule and get these people to their destination. That is his job.
And someone on the bus as it drives away says “well that situation wasn’t handled very well!”. And a few on the bus raise their hand timidly and gingerly and say “buut butt but… bus driver…are you not going to turn around and help these peeeeoooppple…..? And some on the bus say to the people suggesting the bus driver to stop so some can help these hurt people “quiet! ….we are on our way now. We can’t be late” And the hands go down slowly one by one. We are on our way! We can’t be late. We have bought tickets for the Cirque des Luné.
This gives me a lump in my throat, it is so true.
Whatever can we do to help others to see this?
I just came from a fellowship meeting and a person there whom I love as a brother , was talking about the fate of those who have left the meetings, as though they would all be lost because they are no longer walking with us.
I am finding it impossible to stay in this fellowship with its narrow mindedness and lack of understanding.
We have been soooo indoctrinated, it hurts.
I love the fellowship but how can we support a ministry that is so corrupt, our own workers turning a blind eye to the elephant in the room.
So many people have no idea of what is going on, and some don’t want to know.
I spoke to someone last night about the sexual abuse, their response was unbelievable.
I would never write it here because it is so triggering, I was horrified and I wasn’t sexually abused.
I believe we should have a designated prayer day , where we would make prayer our priority for the whole day that God would help us in all of this.
And yes of course continue to pray always fervently, and with great sorrow that God would send help.
Victims like me will continue to remain silent because this type of shaming/excommunication is still happening.
THANK YOU to victims willing to come forward, and to Beth for your courage in standing for what is right consistently and firmly regardless of the unjust consequences. Beth, your example of speaking up for survivors is exactly what advocacy should look like, and it should NOT have to be that difficult. The fact that it was that difficult, speaks volumes of the depth of corruption and confusion we face. I am both grateful for you, and sorry for what you and survivors have had to endure for so many years. You are not alone, advocates are being added daily now. Going forward, I also want to have the actions that show clearly, I will stand for what is right regardless of what people think. This is a just and worthy cause.
This is exactly why every single overseer needs to step down. Jim Price, anyone who could respond in that fashion is insensitive beyond words, and incapable of being a labourer amongst the sheep. To be in that position, a worker needs to care about the sheep. Overseer is a term I have come to despise, because the word is, indeed, in indicative of a group of people who sit on high and “over” others, apparently so high up that the bleating bleeding sheep are unheard and unseen. Very unlike Jesus, who walked amongst.
Breaking news from Canada. New worker list out today. It appears that Jim Atcheson has been removed from his overseer position and is going to be the “minor “ brother worker in his field this year. Larry Greenaway is at the top of the list and the new overseer for SK, MB and NW Ontario. No communication, just a slow leak of the list.
Larry was a dud in the southwest. Hope you have strong elders that will hold him accountable.
Larry sold out for Dale’s favor just before he left California. Best of luck.
Thank you Beth and others for having the courage of a lion! The lack of moral conscience and judgement on the part of Ray Hoffman and Barry Barkley is appalling. These men need to step aside and honestly, they should be excommunicated. Some of our Friends have been excommunicated for far less and questionable reasons. Allowing Leslie White to continue going to meetings is unconscionable. When there is no accountability for bad decisions then “moving forward” begins to sound like back to backward. The fellowship and especially the victims deserve better.
From Jon Platte. Hi Beth! Thank U for speaking up. It “took a lot of guts” to do that. // Just before the 2011or 2012 Blackwater (Mo.) conv. we workers present were mandated to be instructed about the “Ministry Safe” program. I’d forgotten about the mtg. because I was still busy with preps. Eventually TD (a worker) fetched me so I set down this garbage can (in the back of the cookhouse), raced back with TD and sat down in a room full of Workers to attend the Very Important Meeting. It was chaired by none other than (drum roll, please): Leslie White and Barry Barkley! I have no difficulty believing everything U’ve written… it’s pretty much how they operate. People might “thump” on Us but– our joy is in the Lord anyway. Seems to be the Traumatized Soul’s time to find their voice and be heard.
This pretty much says it all. The effectiveness of the ministry safe program is nullified without being accompanied by a deep purging.
Right! Because the motive was CYA anyway. Sure the training can be helpful but if they lack the moral compass to keep predators from the fellowship then they need to find another line if work.
I am curious.
What is the scriptural justification for people “the friends” to subordinate to man “the workers” instead of God?
Anyone?
It is in the 2x2s book of unwritten rules.
My heart goes out to these poor people …the priest and the Levite didn’t just pass by …they were the ones responsible for kicking them into the ditch in the first place it seems!
…..For then we saw through a glass darkly!
Jesus said that after he left the earth, He would send the Comforter …and the HOLY SPIRIT will lead you into ALL truth! Nothing more, nothing less.
The veil only comes down when we are willing for God to show us what is behind it.
Could it be, as it was in Jesus time …the one that holds the bag will be the one that shifts their focus from their calling to feed the lambs and sheep and eventually falls into temptation. John 12? Just a thought.
God knows and sees those that wanted to help this poor soul and her family – and those that wanted to break her and her family – and kick them to the ditch. Now we (many of us?) know this is not an isolated incident over the years. Take courage friends and have all your faith in the only ONE. ….and ONLY in the ONE!
Not saying to throw the baby out with the bath water ..but for crying out loud, the water seems to have been foul for a long time! No?
There is no way a Christian can support such a leadership. Thank you Beth and family for having back bone to stand up against these ungodly workers in this ministry( apologies for the honest workers, you should have righteous anger towards these wolves in sheeps clothing in your ministry.
Thanks to Wings For Truth for a place one can say how you honestly feel in a civil way without ones posts being labeled as “mostly attacking, negative and complaining” as my posts have been labeled by the hosts of “connected and concerned friends” I have tried to debate their unfair criticism of my posts but they were unwilling, they remind me of my dealings with overseers and some workers in their fellowship.
Thank you for posting, Louise. That’s the problem, and we have things like Jerome being invited to CO, NM, and TX conventions. The overseers still aren’t holding themselves or each other accountable and are not doing enough to support the many, many victims. I don’t see how I can attend conventions when there is no significant change happening. This isn’t a scriptural problem, it’s a problem of unsound and ungodly traditions.
Amen, Mary!
Mary, If you are talking about Jerome Frandle, it many not be a bad idea to have him visit these states. After all, he has first hand experience of covering up CSA crimes in Michigan and was convicted and spent time in jail. He will be able to tell the workers in those states what it is like to spend time behind bars – maybe they will be transparent about CSA. As documented on Wings, all three of these states have past and maybe present CSA issues. Leslie White and Jim Price both spent time in these states.
I was told by the hosts of “connected and concerned friends” that me saying, the fellowship has cult like tendencies, and Ray Hoffman should be excommunicated from the fellowship if he covered up crimes, was blanket statements according to them, I disagreed but they were unwilling to debate this aswell.
Thanks Wings that I can feel at liberty to voice my views here in a civil way.
All workers that covered up crimes should be reported to the authorities and excommunicated from the fellowship untill they whole heartedly repent, Paul said so in the case of the man that had a immoral relationship, would he not say so for those who covered up SA and CSA?!
I agree! This fellowship VERY MUCH DOES have cult like tendencies!! Alot of them!!! I know many people want to “save” the church but I don’t see it happening. It’s far too corrupt and the people are too indoctrinated. Even if ALL the workers were removed, you would still have the friends who are willing to cover up and worker worship. So, that being said, how can you purge the church if many members are part of the problem? Maybe God will destroy the whole thing and rebuild on the real foundation… Jesus!
Kim – Jesus built the foundation when he was on earth and it has been in place and will remain until he returns. Throughout the ages, there have been and still are many very fine Christian churches throughout the world that are not infested with CSA/SA bad actors. The issue with the 2×2 religion is that they believe they are God’s only people and they are the only right way. Many do not know or do not want to believe that it as started a little over 100 years ago in Ireland by a Scottish preacher from the Faith Mission. God does not have to rebuild anything.
I agree these overseers who are guilty of ,or complicit in covering it, need to step down, however please don’t tar all overseers around the world with one brush. We live outside USA and our overseer is genuine and it is very obvious he loves the church (people). Nor is he in the position for money or power.
Kim; You are correct; this fellowship had and does have cult exclusivity. AND can use any excuse or reason to ex-communicate and then give false reasons to others for their actions to destroy someone. Then walk away and deny any factual evidence while “the destroyed” are left to self destruct.. This is as harmful abuse as CSA.
The ONLY hope to eliminate this power is to educate. You are correct people have willingly been indoctrinated by poor, homeless, servants who have sacrificed “ALL” – and claim to be just like the 12 apostles Jesus sent.
Only uneducated people in OUR Holy Bible and specifically IN Jesus ministry in his fleshly body TO the Nation of Israel: Matthew 15:24
AND uneducated specifically also IN the way Jesus sent His 12 apostle: Acts 2:42-:46. IS THIS HOW YOU as believers LIVE and worship????
AND also IN to whom Jesus sent the 12 to be witness!
ONLY these uninformed, unlearned, and gullible ((Yes, we know because that was US! ::we burn with red embarrassment as we actually READ God’s Holy Word))
are and continue to be mislead. They are looking for a solution to a “tradition of MEN” that God never had any part in.
2 Corinthians 11:13-:15 the risen Christ through Paul( 2 Cor. 1:1 an apostle of Christ by the will of God)
:::explains how very caring and intelligent people(souls) are mislead and destroyed! (( We know – we were ignorant and proud in our own self-righteousness))
We fear the only hope of correction for this cult is being HONEST enough to desperaretly actually read and understand God’s Word. This won’t happen because of deep loyalty. OUR hearts and souls ache for their waking-up and realizing through God’s very( Spirit of Christ 1 Peter 1:11);
EXPLAINS TWO guide lines
1. 2 Corinthians 5:13-:17 – specific :16 we have known Christ in the flesh (HIS
fleshly ministry to Nation of Israel to bring that Nation back to God
YET NOW “henceforth” we Know Christ after the flesh:: NO MORE
::15 we only KNOW Christ Risen and sitting at the right Hand of God
2. 2 Peter 3: Peter assures those of his Jewish church in Jerusalem(Acts 2:41-
47) who were scattered( James 1:1 and 1 Peter 1:1)Yes the 12 tribes Israel)
3:9-:10 and :15 the long-suffering of God
:15 while you wait in God’s long-suffering
God has given wisdom to Paul – :16 which is hard for Peter to understand-(you remember Peter was sent to the Nation of Israel) and Peter admonishes :17 those Jews of that Jewish Church to be steadfast in their Jewish promises.
Ephesians 3:1-9 EXPLAINS part of the wisdom given to Paul
Romans 3:21- :28 Explains how and why Ephesians 3:1-9 works.
Hi Kim, could you email me at 4sgniwbtsmod12@gmail.com
Kim…my name is Kim also. I would appreciate if you would either post with your last name or anonymous, because while there may be lots of “Kim’s” on here, I am being singled out as this is my post. While my stance isn’t the same as yours at all, it has cause me a lot of grief. I will post with my full name to make this evident that your post is not mine. I have been in this fellowship my whole life, and I have never felt it was a cult. So please… for other “kims” out there who may feel differently than you, it would be nice if you would identify yourself better, or just post anonymous. Thank you
Actually for all of you who post with just your first name, you may be causing other people with your same name and not your views the same grief I have encountered.
Beth, your story is astounding! I applaud your vision, your understanding and
your courage to do what is right, in the face of denial and shaming and dismissiveness. I feel empathy for your trauma, as well as that of Leslie’s victims. Regarding your being “excommunicated”, I say, that these overseers (men), have power over you, ONLY if you give it to them. Go to meeting and pray vocally, and speak your thoughts and share the bounty that God has shared with you. Your meeting family may be initially shocked, but if you continue to share the love and inspiration that has come from God, hopefully, they will feel the wholesomeness of your spirit, and the divide will fade away. Real authority comes from God, not from dishonest, cowardly men, who are incapable of facing the truth. God gives you the authority to participate in fellowship with others who love and learn and take direction from Him. You don’t need permission from men, to share in fellowship with other disciples of Jesus. I speak from experience, regarding a situation in my own life many years ago.
There is joy and great liberty in discovering that men cannot restrict our ability to interact with God, and that God bestows blessing on us, regardless of the opinions of men. God also blesses our fellowship with others, regardless the opinion of others that we are unworthy of fellowship. I am happy to have a private conversation with you, if you would like.
Loved your post Sara!
Yes please let Beth know we are here for her, please give her my e mail address Wings, if she wants to have contact.
Beth, with admiration I say you are our modern day Jael.
Ah, Jael. My favorite woman in the Bible.
Agree Mary🌷they need to do a root cause analyses to bring forth substantial change.
The root cause is unsound and ungodly traditions as you said.
Truth- absolutely, there are honest workers, but that said, they should have righteous anger towards the wolves in their fellowship and remove them.Paul said to excommunicate the man in Corinthians that had a immmoral relationship, what would Paul say about perputrators of CSA or SA and those that have covered up these crimes? He would forsure say to hand them over to the authorities aswell as excommunicate them from the church, untill they repent.
Leslie asked me my work schedule the summer of 2009 at a gospel meeting in Indiana so he could come visit at my home (single woman living alone). I told him I didn’t have a set schedule to avoid a visit. A narrow miss. Thank you Beth for posting. No overseer is innocent and very few workers as all are finding out