The letter in late March exposing the secret, evil life-style of Dean Bruer has opened the flood gates of complaints about the corruption in our ministry. Many are eager for prompt changes to be made. While legal issues must be dealt with immediately, issues of power and doctrine will unfortunately take more time. Many of our overseers are resisting any type of change to their power structure, and change can only be done after they have faced the legal system. We must first allow the judicial system to remove the abusers and those in authority who systematically covered up those abuses. Like the Canadian elder, I have chosen to remain anonymous to avoid excommunication until the current group of overseers have been cleansed or removed, as things could soon get very messy. I have realized for years that “Truth” is a mixture of God’s way and man’s rules, with that mixture varying from individual to individual.
The book The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 (available free online) provides valuable history on our ministry. It was written by a convert of Cooney and is probably biased towards him, and it may be biased against the other main character, William Irvine, but I do find it very informative. In 1899 Irvine and others left their preaching in “organized religions” to form the “Go Preacher” group. By 1901 Cooney and Irvine were preaching together (workers came to US in 1903 and to Canada in 1904).
By 1907 Irvine was claiming to be the “living witness” meaning only those who professed through him or through one who had professed through Irvine could go to heaven. He was described as a dictator and a new pope. By 1914 Irvine was confronted about his weakness for women, and when asked to step aside as the leader and to remain in the ministry, he refused and left entirely. His lieutenants immediately started carving up the English-speaking world for their areas of command, using the same organizational structure that Irvine had ruled with. Cooney objected to the organizational structure and said that all should be led by God’s spirit. Cooney was finally excommunicated in 1928 for refusing to be in step with the other workers. He then preached among outcasts in the English-speaking world until his death; this part of the book left me with an empty feeling that something else was wrong.
It took only 8 years for what apparently started out right to become corrupted by ego and greed. This partially corrupted ministry has now gone on for 116 years, and it will take some time to change. God has immense patience and uses many tools, including man’s legal system, to do His work.
In the weeks following the letter about Dean Bruer, multiple workers in our region preached about the “authority of the ministry”, its justification and the need to maintain it. I assume those instructions came from our overseer, who rather than seeing the fallacy of pushing this authority chose instead to double down on the power structure. This current style of authority came not from God or Jesus, but from William Irvine. Matt 20:25-28 – Jesus warned against this very situation. Some overseers have been honest and spirit-led, some are now seeing the light and encouraging cleansing, and others will fight to the bitter end to maintain their control. Like others, I have professed and have been spiritually fed in an imperfect fellowship under a partially corrupt ministry. Therefore, I do not want to give this fellowship up or be forced out during this painful time of cleansing.
Even though not often used in meeting or in conversations, the key word is “control”. If the workers can convince us that they are the toll-booths on our way to heaven, they can control many aspects of our lives, including where we go to meeting, who we meet with, etc. Workers cannot control my relationship with God, but they can try to control how my spouse and I appear; therefore, the shallow emphasis on form and appearance. A form is necessary when a foundation is being formed. Once the foundation has solidified (Jesus) the forms are no longer needed and are removed. Forms are only left on if there is a low confidence in the material in the foundation (man’s rules).
If some workers think they can control people’s salvation, it is a small step from their point of view to take advantage sexually of someone lower than them. Instead all should esteem others better than themselves; we don’t go around abusing someone we esteem higher than ourselves. The current rash of sexual abuse cases stem from: 1) human nature; 2) an organizational structure that elevates the overseers and workers way above the friends; and 3) a culture of cover up that used to mean no earthly consequences. Point 3 is currently changing thanks to efforts of many, including this website. Point 2 must change and change is painful. Point 1 will never change, although a correct ministry will result in more spirit-led decisions and less decisions made by human nature.
Some friends, several workers and many overseers have a lot to lose on this earth through this cleansing process, and they will resist in many ugly ways. Let the judicial system do the heavy lifting, placing several oversees and workers behind bars. Then the remaining ones should be more receptive to discussing with the friends a spirit-led ministry as taught by Jesus. An attempt at that discussion today might be counter-productive.
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I would honestly laugh if I was excommunicated, as if I am the problem. If I was, I would definitely my have my answer.
I agree, there are a lot of conflicting interests for some in positions of authority and they will resist the desire to be honest, and the changes that must come with that.
Concur. One has to ask/consider, who am I subordinating to, man(workers/ministry) or God. Based on RESULTS, speculation would lean towards subordinating to man(workers/ministry) Then again, these are just my dumb questions to ponder.
David, I understand your comment re laughing over excommunication. However the reality is we don’t realize how much joy and healing there is in being able to express our thoughts.
I have been stopped from speaking or partaking of the emblems for 9 years now. You get closure on your thoughts when you share you tend to then move on. The partaking of the emblems is an important thing for our soul. For me it brought a sense of the feeling of submission and reminded of the price Christ paid for me. Contentment and peace brought comfort. My wife and I share our thoughts every Sunday before the meeting which has helped us to this day and God has blessed us greatly.
The last paragraph of Senior Citizen I agree with 100%.
These destructive Overseers and Workers are validated through the place and power that they have rather than validated through GOD and being his true servant – finding lost souls.
They will never step down.
Human Nature loves judging, it makes those who Judge feel more knowledgeable, wiser and righteous. They see themselves as the upholders of the Law of Christ. The usually love speaking on the Old Testament, lots of laws for them to process and preach.
The Holy Spirit nature is full of LOVE – kind and encouraging. Edifying and humble.
Christ brought the power to the individual to self determine their own path through the power of the Holy Spirit and Prayer. They don’t like this – they want to determine it for everyone.
For a Worker to abuse Gods appointed authority is to surely sin and anger God.
Nadab and Abihu did what they thought best, rather than what God commanded. Hophni and Phineas took advantage of their position, and of their Jewish brethren. They abused their position to steal from sacrifices.
I Samuel 2:12 refers to Hophni and Phinehas as “worthless.” In addition to plundering extra food, these brothers were using their power for sexual gratification.
Nothing has changed with man. However, God knew this and did change the order of things.
Jesus said – I am the way, the truth and the life: No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
A Worker spoke in our special meeting on the 3rd June 2023 the following;
OT times a priest was the people’s conduit to God. They were flawed and abused their authority.
NT – CHRIST took the powers away from the Priesthood and we each received the power (Holy Spirit) of Christ within us. Luke 17:21 Gods Holy Kingdom lives within each one of us.
WE EACH WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling. We then think of those choices we have made as we partake of the emblems. For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
God had it planned from the beginning that Christ would be the ultimate High Priest for all time.
Our Workers see themselves as the priests of the OT.
They condemn and judge the Church. Christ said “And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.”
They believe that;
You have access to God through us –
We can tell others that you have a bad Spirit.
We can take the emblems away from you.
We can stop you sharing in the meetings,
and if that doesn’t work –
We can excommunicate you.
WE ARE YOUR SHEPHERDS AND SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY.
In the Bible there is only ONE TRUE SHEPHERD – CHRIST.
They are Gods Servants or Workers, they were never called Shepherds in the New Testament. Their whole purpose is, preaching the Gospel and searching for lost Souls.
We are to support them in that quest.
We have all been complacent out of fear of being punished for standing up against wrong. It’s been hammered into us to be compliant is Godly.
Don’t show a bad spirit – be a peacemaker. In this we have left victims suffering and most of us have not stood up for righteousness.
Workers totally unscriptural behavior and bullying of friends for 100 years has taken place, if you read the historical documents available. We have empowered and enabled these abusive Overseers and Workers through generations. Confidence has grown. Boldness and domination has prevailed, creating fear.
My believe is God has had enough. Dean Bruers sudden death has opened a floodgate of righteous indignation.
Each church should be responsible in correcting blatant sin from a member of that gathering. Wise discernment and thorough discussion and action administered with kindness. We should be mature enough spiritually to do this with the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and Prayer.
Acts 6:3-4 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”
Workers need to get their hands off the church and turn around and get out into the World and concern themselves with lost souls. Luke 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.
I for 30 plus years have dealt with church’s. They never compare themselves with other church’s, they just get about their own business.
We however, must keep doing comparisons, now who does that remind us of – the Pharisee and the Publican. We condemn ourselves.
There is already major discussions over hair and clothing etc. Trivialities to God. Stop imposing your discernments or expectations on others. Why can’t we leave each one to determine what is right for them. Those personal decisions come under scrutiny and then add weight to the emblems on Sunday morning.
1 Corinthians 11:27-29 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. [28] Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. [29] For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
STOP JUDGING OTHERS – LOOK IN THE MIRROR and be concerned about our own life and example.
Hearts, actions and words are of more concern.
AS YOU JUDGE, SO YOU WILL BE JUDGED – There is no stronger worded warning. GOD made it very simple under Christ – believe in Christ and you will be saved, NOT BY ANYTHING WE CAN DO. Layers of unwritten rules are imposed, however we don’t call them rules because we are lead by the Spirit. Yet we are judged if we don’t comply.
Let’s go back to the simplicity that Christ brought us. Our only Savior, Shepherd and Intercessor.
A letter to all overseers worldwide was published this morning
https://www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/public-letter
I like what Elderly Citizen said about elevating the overseers and workers above the friends. In my early days of proessing, after coming out of the Catholic church where we revered the pope, I also thought the workers were so much closer to God than I could ever be. Talking to a young brother worker one day he said, “We’re just like you, we just have a different place to fill”. I am thankful for those humble words and for those who remain childlike, but have sometimes seen, that after yrs in the work, that childlike spirit is replaced with an authoritive, ‘higher than thou’ spirit. It is sad to see..
I agree that any substantive changes to the fellowship of Friends and Workers will probably (almost certainly) take time. But that absolutely does not need to be the case. God’s timing is often held out to require a lot of waiting and patience and this is not necessarily true. Most often, us mortals are light years behind doing what God has desired of his people. We are slow to even recognize the need to change, reluctant to hold ourselves or anyone accountable and really obtuse if we can manufacture an excuse why “nothing can be done yet”.
EXACTLY. WHY WAIT???
Senior Citizen – you and dont know each other’s names, but we are of the same Spirit. Your brothers and sisters in Christ love you and feel the trepidation of being expelled from fellowship with people for whom we have a honest and holy spiritual love. Our sunday morning meetings and wedneaday night meetings are precious because of the efforts of each one to be faithful. Change is difficult and the unknown can seem like a potentially worse alternative than whatever we know ro be wrong.
The legal process is inadequate as it will only address unlawful conduct that is within a statute of limitations. That is, there there are time limits after an unlawful act for criminal prosecution or civil claims to be started. Most of the claims that would exist are too old to be legally actionable. The civil system is also unlikely to address the ongoing abuses, as it primarily awards money damages to victims. Part of the issue is that the ministry’s resources (money) are hidden, held in trust by friends who are unaware of the severity of abuses committed by bad workers. As a result, most bad workers are judgment-proof.
I recall hearing over 25 years ago about Ira abusing our friends and molesting children. Ira is unlikely to ever be held accountable by the legal system despite his abuses being widely known and largely undisputed. Faced with the prospect of allowing these abuses to be perpetuated against another generation, the call to wait and feels like a request for complacency. As Christians, we have a charge to help those who need help and to cleanse ourselves from sin. James 1.27. We cannot put this responsibility on an already over-burdened legal system and ignore the ongoing corruption of this way. Four generations in my family professed before me. I accept they did the best they could. However, the fifth and sixth generations need us to protect them and i feel responsible not to ignore systems that are almost certain to result in future abuse.
Like others, I am disappointed that none of the overseers have acknowledged the financial issues that created an environment where abuses could be committed regularly and without consequence. The overseers also have not proposed any action to eatablish financial accountability or legal compliance with tax laws. The silence suggests that a broadly known problem is still being ignored and a mindset that the overseers are infallible. I am concerned that there is no one currently in authority being directed by the Spirit. Jesus did not send his disciples out to gather up earthly riches, but our ministry has and seems to have a proclivity toward continuing to do so.
While we love our friends and the honest workers, we must take prompt action to eliminate the mechanisms used to abuse and exploit our friends or the abuses will continue. My brothers and sisters in Christ for whom Jesus died are worthy of a true ministry and should be able to meet without fear of the ministry. It is this spiritual love that prompts me to call for immediate action rather than waiting for legal processes to play out.
No more half-truths from the workers. No more maintaining secret trust accounts, and no more covering up abuse even if it happened 25 years ago. Put abusers on notice that we will not offer up another generation to depraved appetites.
If the overseers are serious about cleansing the church and ministry, they know how to reach everyone and should do so quickly. Until then, beloved friend, maintain your relationship with God, give thanks always for Jesus, know that your brothers and sisters in Christ love you.
Where is the accountability for yourself? You knew about Ira Hobbs 25 years ago, why didn’t YOU do something? Laying all of this at the feet of “the workers” is cowardly.
Thanks for sharing. Time is of the essence in exposing and removing criminals from power, and I for one believe that holding such ‘workers’ accountable for their actions and inactions will do a lot to address the false ‘workers are holier’ doctrine held by some.
I’m becoming convinced that a simple plan for financial transparency is also necessary and fairly urgent.
Once those two things are done though, I think many other problems will go away, having been cut off at the root.
The problems that still remain after that are nothing that lots of reading, prayer, patience, and communication can’t fix.
Anyone reading this that wants to have further conversations about these issues in a different setting where we can actually converse, please reach out to me at garner.shaned@gmail.com
Noted. Will do in a few hours. LOL
Through all of this my Bible reading has become more alive. It is like I can’t stop reading. I just want to share a little bit. I hope changes will be made swiftly, there is no reason not to. The Band-Aid needs to come off so healing can begin. Exposure to the light and the sun (Son) is the best healer. Isaiah 40:4-7. Every valley, exalted, every mountain and hill shall be made low, crooked will be made straight, rough places made smooth and people are grass, but the word of our God stands forever. John 14:6 Jesus is the way, the truth, the light. Matthew 1:30 Jesus yoke is easy and the burden is light. We need to be dusting, sweeping, and cleaning out the cobwebs. Individually & as a whole body.
It bothers me when CSA is attributed to “human nature.” It is NOT human nature to harm children. It is human nature to protect children. Am I missing something here?
It would be better described as “criminal nature”, or for a more religious description, “evil nature”.
Exactly. Human nature is something natural to being human. CSA/SA is NOT natural. CSA is also NOT a natural urge for the celibate. Call it criminal, perverted, evil. To call it human nature is gaslighting, is normalizing an evil that is not part of normal human nature.
Agreed. It is not human nature to harm children, or to rape, or abuse another human.
I have SO many thoughts lately, and things that never sat well with me have risen again to the surface in regards to the issue of control. I have so much respect for the workers- that calling, when it’s a true calling, is honorable and I know that I could never do it. That said, they are no less human than we are and there have been times where it seems like their ideas and thoughts have been put on a pedestal instead of allowing the Spirit to lead. Namely, when it comes to remarriage. Should a Spirit-led person marry, divorce, and remarry all willy-nilly? No. But if there is a reason for it, such as abuse or the other spouse chooses to leave, that’s not something in a person’s control, and if God gives them a new blessing of someone who’s a true helpmate after experiencing abuse and abandonment, they shouldn’t have to choose between accepting that gift and being able to continue taking part in the meetings. That’s cruel- people in those situations have been through enough. The fact that they have managed to hang on to their faith speaks volumes- nobody has any right to judge the situation or another’s relationship and dealings with God. Overseers who swoop in and immediately prohibit them from taking part give me a really bad vibe.
That’s just the example that came to mind first, but you get the idea: there is too often a gross over-reach of “power” in times where prayer and love should be leading. This twist on our reality is what allows CSA and other abuses to occur, too- our sense of who’s “in charge” and what their limitations (or lack of them) are is often warped. I love my faith, but I’ve come to realize that too much faith has been falsely laid on the human entities, and that needs to change. We tend to forget that nothing we can see, taste, or touch is infallible and in doing so, maybe start to lose the sensitivity to our need of the Spirit.
I guess it feels good to have a place to come where things aren’t hidden and explained away, where discussions can be had, where we can express concerns, without too much judgement. Like many others, I feel surrounded by strangers right now and everything feels foreign. I question very much the leadership roles that some have, and what it means for the future of the Kingdom.
Reading the comments, it seems to me there is some confusion as to what the author is saying. I read it as we need patience in dealing with the doctrine issues that comes from power hungry workers. I don’t see anywhere that the author is advocating for patience in dealing with criminal activity. It’s a no-brainer that those things should be reported to the police ASAP.
Criminal activity – urgency is required; act right now.
Doctrine issues – patience is required.
CSA is human nature for pedophiles. It’s obviously not the nature of most people but it is for them.
To anon friend:
No, I don’t see any particular confusion. The original writer was very clear in stating “While legal issues must be dealt with immediately, issues of power and doctrine will unfortunately take more time.” Those who believe they are leaders are certainly resistant to change and it may take time. In fact, I suspect that many will NEVER accept change and there will be MANY followers who will support them in that wholeheartedly..And it’s not confusing at all that some will want to do things in a particular order, while others know that several things can occur concurrently by individuals or groups working together and separately. That shouldn’t be a stretch to anticipate.
We all need patience, all the time … but that doesn’t mean no action! If we’ve had our eyes and our hearts open to God, and to the care of our brethren, we know we are being urged to act. Prayer and intense communication are both part of this sordid journey.
I agree with anon friend….the author is asking us to deal with the legal (criminal) stuff right now so our fellowship is immediately safe to bring children and other vulnerable to meeting. Always. Safety. First. The doctrinal issues will take more time. If an elderly friend is finding the courage to post in a public forum, I suspect they’ve waited years and years for God to deal with the things they have had to endure. Once the crimes have been exposed, those can be dealt with in a sense of urgency. Not everyone around the world is on the same page of ripping off the bandaid to deal with man-made doctrine. We may even have to wait for new leaders to gain wisdom and maturity to fill some of these roles and maybe leadership will look very different from what it has been in the past. Meanwhile, we all have the ability to have our own relationship with God while He deals with the carnage inflicted on the fellowship by dangerous leadership. I can’t see an overseer or worker daring to use the weapon of excommunication right now while the eyes of the world are on N America. Those workers who are still in the work that participated in excommunicating people twenty years ago need to be put out of the work RIGHT NOW. They are included in the group who are unsafe and dangerous.
The only reason a bandaid is “ripped off” is if the wound has healed or if the wound is infected and more serious medical attention is needed. Using the bandaid metaphor indicates to me that you and others who use that term must consider the injury or wound to be minor. It is not!! These are grievous wounds that need major surgery. I use the wound metaphor here to refer mainly to the sickness of the fellowship. And anyone who has the integrity and courage to move forward should be supported. They don’t need to be warned and scolded by those can’t see their way to doing anything. Just watch from the sidelines if you have no courage.
I am excommunicated for speaking up about Child Sexual Abuse .
This is the reality and the cruel reality among us . This is my own experience with brothers workers recently.
Dear Justice, a family in our mtg. has the same problem. How sad. CSA/SA cases MUST be dealt with. I cannot understand how overseers CANNOT deal with these things and still preach the gospel of love and truth in Jesus~
This makes me sad.
Under what circumstances would the Good Shepherd separate a sheep from the flock?
Under what circumstances would a wolf separate a sheep from the flock?
Under what circumstances were people “put away” in the scripture? Was it because they were immoral, or was it because they sounded the alarm?
In Judges 19:30, they were told to “consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.”
Justice,
Wolves don’t have the authority to excommunicate. Do you have people talking to you? If you need more long-distance fellowship than you’ve got, there are a bunch of us connecting via the Shining the Light and Advocates for the Truth Facebook pages, and I’m happy to talk to.
Justice, do you mind sharing which area you live in? If the US, for example, west, midwest, south, northeast, etc. I’m so sorry.
I feel I may have the same outcome because I am boldly speaking out. They can kick you out of fellowship but they can’t take your relationship with Jesus. I am so sorry that is what happened to you.
When power and $$ are involved expect a fight in giving that up. These things most often lead to corruption. What I find astounding is that the friends literally act like they have no voice or power standing up to workers. This only proves, in my eye, they have been placed upon a pedestal even today.
Despite all that has come out with Dean and thereafter, I still see big problems that make me think long term change won’t happen. Firstly, was a letter from a worker I read somewhere, (so many different spots right now) that said (to the friends in his area) “be patient, this all will blow over eventually.” Another letter from a worker (I think a sister worker) mentioned “the outsiders are bitter, but they will eventually tire.” It was insinuating that The meetings were “under attack.” Basically…it said that the MEETINGS and the accused are the real VICTIMS. Neither letter mentioned the actual victims at all! In fact, as most usual, the victims are BLAMED. No matter the age. Did anyone see the letter about the 4 yr old that was raped that people in the meeting literally blamed?! Mainly because it was easier to do that than accept their beloved brother worker would EVER do such a thing!
The workers/overseers, over the years, have conditioned the friends to almost normalize rape, sodomy and molestation. I find it quite hypocritical to hear so many fellow friends say how outraged, surprised, appalled and speechless etc to hear of such atrocities within their church! It’s laughable. I heard about even way back in 1980. Ive heard of individuals being moved to other meetings because of “transgressions.” That is how it was labeled. I would hear people discussed in the quarters at Conventions and listen who we should keep our kids away from. What I never heard in all my years is a worker or elder tell anyone who to be careful around, someone’s history or apologize for any role they may have played in a child being abused. Never. Not one single word of accountability.
The workers/overseers act like they are handling things right away, so things can return to normal. It’s an act. Now I realize not ALL are bad; however, I consider ALL overseers corrupt. Why? Because you don’t reach that level of hierarchy without knowing what’s going on. They are the ones in charge of any and all reports of misconduct among any and the moving of individuals we have seen. They are the ones who have over road therapists and bondsman’s rules, regulations and recommendations. Why? Because they think they know better than any professional. I do NOT understand why someone would think that just because someone says they accept Jesus as their savior and say they repent it cures them of the sickness in their minds. That they can be allowed around what triggers them. Studies have shown that it’s virtually impossible to rehabilitate a pediphile. There has been some mild success with some deep, long term therapies, but most can’t afford that and or won’t commit to the time frame needed. Even then, they are chaperoned. Is a alcoholic cured when he goes to AA meetings? No. Addiction is addiction.
So I ask, why are we segregating African Americans in our meetings, setting up their “own” meetings, even these days,(which is so inherently wrong!)but show no desire or attempt to provide a separate meeting for white, male,known sexual predators? Especially if the workers are so sure they have repented? The workers/overseers care more for the pediphiles than they do for our children. They are spending more time making sure their money (workers fund)is hidden with the “Royal families” within so that no victim can acquire a settlement. Yes, there are bank accounts. Hefty ones. (Millions)In about, if not every state. Don’t ask, I won’t tell further on that.
People say they want change? The ONLY way to make that change is to get rid of every single overseer. Every one. Why do we need them anyway? It is simply a position that was invented over time for an additional hierarchical need. Frankly, can’t see why Elders aren’t enough in this simple way. They claim there is no organization, so why do we have so much STAFF?! The friends need to realize that just because someone says they have been “called into the work.” Doesn’t necessarily mean God had any say in that. Quit being blind sheep. Learn your Bible! Interpret for yourself! It’s amazing just how many of the friends and even workers don’t know His word. They just follow what the workers/overseers tell them. Who then are we worshiping? Aren’t we to follow Jesus? Accept that you don’t need a middle man to serve Jesus. Will a worker be beside us when we stand before God? No.. WE are responsible for our OWN salvation.
Stand tall and be loud. Your children, grandchildren and all children depend on every one of you. If you KNOW of something and do NOTHING, you are just as guilty as the rapist. You have essentially taken the rapist hand, led them to their next victim and stood as lookout. YOU will have to answer to that before God.
Michael, Mary Lou and all here :
I live in USA . West . This crimes took place far away from USA . It happen recently.
I was excommunicated by 2 elders in my country while I was there dealing with this crime .
I have to join my voice with you and all the victims .
The workers or elders ,
they may excommunicated us ,
they may call us crazy,
they may putting us down,
They may say we don’t have the right spirit,
They made us cry but JUSTICE is coming and you will REJOICE that day .
You will see His Maighty Hand and He himself will wipe away your tears.
KEEP your FAITH.
This is what happened:
I confronted a “professing man ” that sexual abuse his own family members .
All children .
The workers in charged allowed this
” professing man ” to have meeting in his home and partake of the emblems despite what he did .
I spoke with the overseer of all the overseers and I asked him why the workers in that area allowed this man to have meetings in his home and partake of the emblems for 2 years since this was first known by the workers in the field ?
I feel hopeless with his answer .
He told me something that put me down and I lost hope for myself but I didn’t lose my Faith for what he said to me . He didn’t wanted for me to get involved with this situation.
But I did because all these crime were minimized by the workers in charge and I put my boots on the ground defending the children that were abused.
One worker told me that they are going to be consequences If I speak up .
I did, I spoke up .
I was excommunicated by 2 elders with the support and approval of the workers .
I was called crazy just because I spoke up against evil by 2 workers .
I confronted this ” professing man ” and he denied everything. Then I read a letter that was written by his own wife exposing him and all that he did .
After I confronted him he didn’t have sundays mornings meetings at his home anymore BUT
It is a shame that the workers in charge of that field allowed this “professing man ” to continue coming to meetings in another home were there are children present.
I wrote a email to all the workers in my country and sent my email to the overseer in charge telling them if this “professing man ” sexual abuse another child , all of you are going to be guilty and responsible .
I quickly learn that if someone dare to speak up against evil among us there are going to be consequences.
The consequences are set and approved by the servants and this abuse has got to STOP.
The purpose of this message is to express my concern about the abuse of power and control that the workers exercise against a person that expose evil among us.
Is this another case that will be swept under the many layers of this dirty rug ?
Is this another case of covering up abusive crimes ?
May God do right and justice to all that suffer from the abuse of power from overseers, and workers in charge , that abuse their position to put fear in the hearts of those that speaks up against what is WRONG and what is EVIL among us.
There is much more to say but it is so overwhelming to me that I have to finished here . Thank you for reading it . Thank you for your comfort and your prayers.
As I mentioned , I confronted the man that sexual abuse his own family members .
Since then he won’t have sundays morning meetings in his home .
I speak up and now I am excommunicated by 2 elders with the support and approval of the workers in charge .
It is so sad that the workers in charge allowed him to go to another home were children are present .
Again I sended an email to all the workers in charge in my country and told all of them if this professing man sexual abuse another child you are going to be responsible and accountable.
They put him out of meetings because my email .
It is very sad that they minimize what he did.
All this happened recently in Ecuador.
I wrote 2 emails to Ray Hoffmann the overseer responsable of all the overseers in South America and he didn’t answer my emails yet .
I am devastated with this experience.
I lost my song but I didn’t lost my Faith .
I hope and trust that our Lord will do JUSTICE soon .
I am asking Ray Hoffmann to remove from the work those who are covering up this situation .
Richard Harbur and Scott Porter have to step down from the work immediately.
They both are responsible for covering up the “professing man” that sexual abuse his family members . All children .
I wrote couples emails to the workers that are responsible to take the proper actions but I didn’t received any answers yet ….
Please provide proof of your allegations to wingsfortruth@googlegroups.com. Your comment will be deleted within 48 hours.
Your name is “defender of truth”
The truth that Jesus Christ taught does not allow any of these aberrations that we are seeing in our church throughout Ecuador, the WORKERS who are responsible must leave the work out of love and respect for the victims and out of love and respect for the path, for Jesus and those of us who have entrusted our souls into his hands.
EVERYTHING that we have experienced in the last few years since the time of Norman Nash and Leroy Lerwick has been bearing fruit for years, the fruit of sin, the fruit of rottenness that has corrupted the true path and those who have surrendered.
the church must be restored and sin removed from it.
rape of children, women and men
cases of domestic abuse allowed by the responsible servants
divorces
new marriages
lesbianism and homosexuality
drug addiction, delinquency among our youth
EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING allowed by the WORKERS, is what has been damaging the hearts and feelings of souls who seek God with their hearts for years.
ENOUGH NOW!!!
if we want justice, we need justice and that they be separated to prevent more people from being harmed because of the evil in their hearts
Do you dare to attack a woman who has been an example for many, to advocate for those who have no voice, to help those most in need as the gospel commands, to turn the other cheek even though the Worker attack, yell, insult and lie a and again and again… YES, THERE IS PROOF! OF COURSE THERE ARE, a restraining order placed to safeguard the life of a wolf disguised as a “sheep” one who claims to be a servant of God but does not really have the spirit of Christ and has manifested it on different occasions and with different people. And manipulating others to go lash out at a vulnerable woman. That is showing the spirit of Christ ???
OF COURSE NOT!
It is time to return to the teachings of yesteryear where Christ was the pillar, the example and his footprints our path.
My niece is one of those affected in a case of abuse and rape for more than two years by her stepfather, I spoke to the WORKERS, I asked for help, help, and what did I receive? NOTHING!!
My sister removed from the meetings and from the truth for not continuing to allow that rapist, who is sick to continue abusing her daughter, and the rapist? He continues in the meetings, partaking of the emblems. And we must shut up NO, NO MORE!
we want to go back to our first love and stop deifying human beings with defects like anyone else.
Ecuador is involved in a lot of evil, in all fields, delivered to hide perversions of workers and others delivered to “cover”, “protect” the truth???
no My friend, THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH! JESUS is NOT a participant in sin, forgive but is NOT a participant in sin.
justice and truth for all of us who have been affected by the wickedness of their hearts.
For the Record ….. My name Charles Habner and I’ve been married to Judy since 2011. She is not a lawyer and does not belong to any institution of any kind. The above comments from the “non-defender of the truth” is a small picture of the “Abuse” Judy has suffered for standing up to C.S.A. Not once has the “non- defender of the truth” talked about the VICTIMS that have suffered from family members, elders and servants. It saddens me deeply to see people who are only concerned with keeping “A False Imagine” of those in the Ministry. Judy and I will continue to pray for the needs in ever land.
I have given myself some time to talk to the friends and the people you Charlie and Judy claim are the victims. But you know what I found out? I found out that those victims have suffered a lot more from Judy and you than what they suffered from others. The victims you mentioned are greatful for the kindness of the workers and the way they helped them. If anyone has any doubts, visit Ecuador and talk to the friends. It’s interesting to see how this person who claims to be excommunicated, doesn’t live in Ecuador. How can you be excommunicated from a place you don’t live? Do you attend meetings in the US? Have you been told not to attend? You have caused a lot of suffering to the poor and humble people of Ecuador and mostly people from the countryside, just because they are poor and humble. That’s really sad. It’s sad to see yourself behaving as a victim as AG, but the truth is quite far. Hope one day you can go back to Ecuador and talk to the people you have offended so much and caused a great deal of pain.
Are you suggesting Defender that we believe you who posts annonymously over those who are unafraid to put their name down?
What you’re saying completely follows the past amd current trend that so many are concerned and horrified by. Victim or concerned friend comes forward about an abuser to worker or authorites, worker shuts down the victim/friend, other workers and freinds follow suit and shut down the victim, victim/advocate is excommunicated. This reads more like an organized crime ring than a Christ-led fellowship.
Please provide proof of your allegations to wingsfortruth@googlegroups.com. These are strong allegations and you may be banned from this site if you cannot substantiate it.
No you aren’t missing anything. CSA is not human nature, it is perversion. The person is perverted, hence they are sometimes called perverts.
The Overseers control the Workers and the Workers control the Elders and the Elders control the Friends. How? The Elders control if you can attend the meeting in their home or not. The Workers control the Elders by controlling who is an Elder and who can have a meeting-in-the-home. The Overseers control the Workers because the Overseers can put a Worker out of the Work at any time without any reason given.
There is zero chance that the Overseers will step aside or resign. The only way to effect change is two fold: 1) Create maximal awareness of all the CSA and other crimes among the Friends. This means the websites, but it also means talking about it non-stop with Friends. And it means putting flyers on the windscreens of cars at conventions. 2) The local Elders must take control of their meetings, they must ignore the Workers. They must support other Elders who get ‘demoted’. They must educate their Friends. They must implement financial reforms in their regions. As long as the Elders can have their meetings removed, the Elders have no agency.