From: <REDACTED>
Date: September 7, 2023 at 8:45:48 AM PDT
To: CA, AZ, NV staff
Subject: Rob Newman
Dear friends,
We want to send you a little update on Rob Newman this morning.
Rob has had difficulty getting into healthy sleeping patterns, but this past Tuesday we were able to get him into a hospital setting where he can be more closely monitored and helped to get the complete rest and treatment that he needs. He is getting very good and thorough care and we do feel this is likely the best pathway towards truly better and stable health.
Rob will continue to be out of communication for a while so he can focus on his health, without concerns or worries.
We look forward to the time when Rob is fully recovered.
Thanks for all your help and care,
The CA, AZ, NV staff
Previous posts
https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/08/29/rob-newman-now-resting/
https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/06/21/rob-newman-letter-to-friends-june-2023/
https://wingsfortruth.info/2023/05/12/letters-from-rob-newman-overseer-of-california/
WINGS for Truth 
Guilt will do that. To get rest he needs to repent
This has brought out the hatred in some of you. Rob didn’t abuse anyone. Many of you didn’t report abuse yourselves, for years parents didn’t report abuse. Stop taking this out on one man – this was a society problem (and still is!). Have some form of humanity.
I agree. Had Rob carried on like nothing happened then he would be accused likewise.
Again, the ones I’m leary of are those overseers over Rob that seem to carry on without a care. JMO
While I agree Rob hasn’t physically or sexually abused anyone, let’s be clear.
Rob has not been honest in many ways, some of which can be just as harmful….
Let’s be clear-
Rob Newman had information regarding the SR situation and lied about having it. When he “suddenly discovered” he did in fact have information, he had someone else deliver it to the legal authorities and then provided the victim an incorrect case number and wouldn’t share the contents with the victim.
Rob Newman stated, other than Ruben Mata he didn’t know of any other CSA abusers. Give me a break, workers talk to each other A LOT. How did he not know of JVDB, SR, GS, JS, RL or a number of friends? There were letters between workers documenting some of the atrocities
While I do hope Rob has a speedy recovery, his priority HAS NOT been protecting the flock
I agree with you..your heart is in the right place. The stones these people throw, hiding behind false identities (most of us are) but I’m not lashing out and deciding who is right or wrong. Only God can judge..we are not called to be judges..nor the jury. We also are not David, and are given stones to throw.. I’ll just pray
All true. Good post
@Humanity. Thanks for the good and honest post
Rob is in hospital caring for his health.
Now health is important to him?
What about the health of the victims?
Rob made statements about Our children being safe.
But Rob was going to bring Gilbert Smith a perpetual perpetrating pedophile that was not caring for the health of the victims was it?
Interesting turn of events took Rob to hospital, however nothing has taken Dale S, Ray H or Barclay to hospital ?
What is it going to Take to bring them down?
Nothing will bring them down, there are those of us that will not let that happen, no matter how much crying and hollering goes on. Stand for the truth.
Millstone or not. Justice is coming. Justice is coming.
Your militant stance is subject to karma and May bite you when least expected,
defender, I’m not sure where you are at if you are staying what I think your saying you would like to “Cover ” for the abusers and the Top workers that cover abusers…..please correct me if I’m wrong????? I hope I’m wrong.
if you want to cover the violations then maybe you could cough up your families little ones for abuse……To many of mine have been used…..I seek to stop the abuse!
Defender, “ Nothing will bring them down, there are those of us that will not let that happen”. Defender, this reminds me of those days during WW II and there were the defenders of Hitler, nothing will bring him down. Back then they said, hail Hitler!
@ Defender…..Stand for Truth huh?Maybe that is what you should be doing! God is bringing a LOT to light and HE is bringing them down! So if I were like you I’d get out of the way and be careful of who you’re defending. Because if you’re not on the right side of this, you’ll have a lot to answer for.
Maybe we all need to pray more. God will not fail in all His comings and going..He is pruning the vine..His work is being done as it says. So maybe you need spend more time on your knees in the quiet place. God knows what is best and what work needs to be done. Never ever question His work..
“was going to” ??? give me a break
When your organization (who preaches they are the way) has lower standards than the law of the land… it’s only a matter of time. Where’s Dale hiding? Worlds justice will be far softer than eternal millstone.
Nothing will bring them down??
You are that powerful??
Not God?
Not the FBI?
Not guilt?
Not dishonesty?
Not deceit?
Nothing could bring the Titanic down either people like you said. It was too big and powerful.
A piece of ice sank the ship!
“Nearer, my God, to Thee” was being played by 8 band members as the Titanic sank beneath the cold waves of the Atlantic. Wondering if Defender may be a distant relative of one of those band members.
Titanic?? .. what a weird comparison.. strange
God can bring them down !!!!! We do need a clean slate if this church is to survive. We need a clean slate at the top!!!! and all the way down.
We need rid of this arrogance that keeps them at the top. !!
Everyone of them should feel the humility and embaressment that this has caused and in all good concience step aside. If they don;t there is no Love for anyone except themselves which of course is what we have beheld…………..
Years ago they decided to change the doctrine of the Bible and deny Jesus his rightful place as a God and King in the Godhead. I remember when there were three chairs on the platform and then one was removed. When I questioned my mother why her responce was (with a shrug) somebody had some kind of a revelation!!!!! YES!! the…. anti Christ… were working amongst these workers whose thoughts were not rightgeous thoughts. The person who started this way was a womanizer and it has continued until they feel it is their right. In Hebrews ch 1 vs 8 God calls his son a God.” But unto the Son he saith, Thy Throne, O God, is forever and ever a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom.”
God called his Son a God and who are we to change that!!!!, but when false doctrine comes amongst us by these sheep in wolves clothing ” Defender “is not going to let them leave. OH what blind fools………Their doctrine is wrong!!
We need a church built on CHRIST !!!
Here is a story that happened in Ont, Canada
A young girl was ready to leave for school, and the house was empty as her mother had to leave for work. This girl in all her innocence ran downstairs to say goodbye to a bro worker, Gordon Hazelwood, who took hold of her breasts and fondled them and said “you really don’t mind do you…….” The arrogance of this man and how many others did he abuse. Any others that were abused by this man need to come forward even if time has past. He is still alive, in a Home for the Elderly, and still atends sp mtgs and conventions.
I hope that Wings for Truth print his name as this happened in the late 1980’s.
“You really don’t mind do you……..”. SUCH ARROGANCE…..and I do believe this sickness is past on from one to another when they thought they could get away with i
Regardless of what “DEFENDER” thinks, we need a cleansing of all who have allowed this to continue and we are with the help of God bringing them down one by one.
Canada still by your side !!
WINGS would be interested in a more in depth story on this.
Thank you righteous anger is needed
When the right anger is directed towards the criminal behavior then real progress might happen but vented anger towards advocates and victims is not only counterproductive it is also complicity, this is discernment not blind allegiance or a knee jerk reaction to a perceived threat
Gordon Hazelwood – this guy was like a high school chemistry teacher mumbling around – very boring. Never would have guessed he too was a pervert. Beginning to think all these guys are a menace to society.
You speak for all of Canada?? I doubt it. Hopefully most in Canada have true wisdom from God and not the confusion you have tried to sow.
Likee
Daily reminder that the workers and overseers who knew about Dean Bruer weren’t going to tell us. They had to because the three women forced their hand. None of this would be happening. All of their apologies and prayers are only because we found out. There wouldn’t be any apologies if we didn’t know. They aren’t sorry. They’re sorry we know.
Yes, your right about that. Michael Hassett doesn’t want us to know or talk if we know!
Would that be correct Micheal?
And reading between the lines it sounds like the overseer from Saskatchewan doesn’t want their province to know either …….would that be right Is it Mr. A?
And the Three from the West Coast didn’t want their people to know…..it’s that correct ?
And the Top in the East didn’t want their people to know…..right?
Come to think of it….Who from the Top waned to advise ” the brethren ” that where was a cancer ripping through the Faith……hummmm I don’t think any of them wanted us to know….just keep giving us money ….keep giving us victim’s… keep giving us…..etc etc etc etc
you can fell in the blank
Who among them has what it takes to stand you for True…..???? Any of you????
Sounds like alot of emotional rubbish. Please …get a grip
Simply…. NOT true.
Exactly.
First, “Perry Pearson (Dakotas) now resting, Perry Pearson, “Thursday, A letter from Perry, Dear friends in the Dakotas, I have not been sleeping well this summer”…
Now, “ We want to send you a little update on Rob Newman this morning. Rob has had difficulty getting into healthy sleeping patterns, but this past Tuesday we were able to get him into a hospital setting…”
Is it the tortured, abused victims that keep visiting these guys every night that keeps them awake?
God works behind the scenes.
Or legal counsel advising to boost their defense.
Actually, its probably non-stop rubbish like this post that burdens the majority of us
Go Away Dude. (Jimmy)
Re: for christ…. Rob is a good man who needed some rest. I’m guessing you do not know Rob at all.
Like I said before back in late July he didn’t look well but had a nice testimony in Sunday morning in Olympia area.
I certainly know that they didn’t want Ontario to know or to talk about it !!!!
They wanted business as usual. The Elders were sent letters to read to the churches, that we were not to gossip or talk about it.!!!!
Can you imagine how confused people were that didn’t know the inside story or what was going on. Here we were getting all kinds of papers given to us to read about CSA/SA and a lot didn’t know why. Wha t a way to handle things !
A young man came to me totally confused because he didn’t know the source of the problem, but he had children that he wanted to protect. There are those in the church that won’t talk about it so they don’t even now how serious this all is.
Oh to be so blind.
We See who the demons Are and continuing to be a “Worker” is simply mocking our God. We need to stand For Rightousness and don’t allow this fake ministry to proceed. What is A Worker and where ever did this term come from?! They are 🦥 Sloths…. Not here for their Fellow man. Time to END the Twisted Truth. We were Born with Gods DNA in us. Speak to him he is everywhere. “ Where one or 2 are gathered I AM with you!! “ Get IT?!!!! Time to shake the scales off…. Thank the living God , Satan is Loosing his grip!! All False Cults/ Religion is Crumbling and being illuminated.
Mat_18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
try again…
Are you ok? You can’t put what you want on others. You can end whatever you like. We ALL have chapters in our lives left to read. Don’t put words in our mouths, you do as you please. You are not our supervisor or boss. You can vent, scream, jump up and down, but don’t be throwing stones..you are not David.
Anyone who labels the Workers as a fake ministry will one day face the wrath of God… unless they beg for forgiveness before the day of wrath comes
You have been brainwashed…by a fake ministry.
I actually pray each morning and connect with heaven.
@Jim – Do you really think the ministry that God has to do with, would produce this kind of fruit? Sexually assaulting children. Did you know that more than 40% of the children sexually assaulted have been by this “ministry”? Much of it AT convention?
Looks like moderators are not willing to let comments Flow. What side are you on moderators. EVIL?!😈😖
We have approved nearly all comments. We block abusive comments and some that are too long.
We are a small international group and aren’t available 24/7, so sometimes it takes a while for a post to appear.
I think you are the only person to suggest that we support evil.
You’re doing a great job. Thank you for all that you’ve done to bring light to these terrible crimes.
To be honest. Your posts sound evil and dishonest and are nauseating. But it is a free country… so we have to put up with that rubbish.
Re: nu earth… The fact that they have not removed some of your posts/comments/rubbish does suggest to me that they do in fact have a very high tolerance … for evil.
Wished Rob a speedy recovery. I am sorry that you are getting the blame for everything when many hundreds should be shouldering the blame.
Sometimes when you are the one in charge such as “managers, overseers, supervisors or even owners, you take the blame and sometimes even more for those that work under your direction.
All of what’s happened in the last 6 months or so has caused me to need to go to therapy. Not because I am a victim of sexual abuse, but I’m a victim of the church. Victim of not being able to safely leave a church without scorn and ridicule from family and friends. I’m unable to leave because I’ll be mocked and thought of as weak and a “lost soul” forever. Constant pleading to “keep going to meetings”. I feel sick. I feel trapped and like I have to forever be someone else that I don’t want to be. So I keep faking it. Please someone respond with comforting words other than “Trust In God”. Because he isn’t here. I ask head workers “how is it all going?” And all they answer with is, “well, we’re praying…” praying about what? God isn’t here. I hear back “you don’t know that”. But you do? I’m a good man with a good logical heart and I can confidently say, God isn’t here. This isn’t what I thought it was. We’ve all been scammed.
Twas theory I got, not life — you are a victim!!! Victims suffer and right now you are suffering. It’s not fun. You feel alienated. You feel you’re in a hostile, or indifferent place, especially where you felt attachment formerly existed. I was there before, in the place you so vividly described. I lived in the system for five decades, coming from first generation members, and marrying someone with the same lineage. Our ancestry included extended family that were and are members, convention owners and many workers. I can assure you that you’re on the right track. The upside down world you were living in, will be made clear to you. Your world will stabilise and turn right side up, and for once YOU will be able to think clearly and see life and the way you should live and as God intended. You have trusted in a system, a man made comfort zone with prepared thought processes, dress codes, hairstyles, lifestyles of endless meetings of indoctrination and to always be made to feel you were not good enough, inadequate, but yet so superior to the “worldly”. Your REAL world will stabilise, and for once YOU will be able to think clearly and see life and the way you should live, as God intended and it is beautiful! Just hang in there and you are going to be happy, very happy. And content. I can assure you are on the right track and one day you are going to be able to fully embrace Jesus, and fully trust in God. God is waiting for you. Twas theory, thank you for sharing your thoughts and reminding me how I once felt. I am so thankful for where I now am! You will be thankful to.
for christ…..I believe part of what your saying and have similar feelings, however I loved convention, loved sp, loved the family, people, the unity with the Real Ones trying to live a Christ fillef life, loved so many many things…I’m in crying for the life we lived and I want it back,
—- – the prep and prevs and The Ones at the Top!
Re: for christ.
I am glad you followed your heart and that you left. It is better for everyone. I and my family are still here with God’s people and his true ministry. We are happy and at peace. All people who feel as you do should go…..stop pretending and being miserable.
ES the worker once said on this issue about 2010 when we asked him about this.
Just because Judas was wrong does that make Jesus is wrong?
think about it…
Brother (twas theory), we think alike. I’ve been feeling the same way. If I were single, I would have been gone months ago. I cannot leave my wife and children behind in this cesspool. My wife is stuck because her family doesn’t understand, and the cost of leaving feels greater than the cost of enduring to her. The ignorance and emotional/ spiritual abuse is theirs, not ours. The cost of enduring is high. If this was a healthy functional fellowship, leaving wouldn’t be so difficult or damaging. I hope therapy helps you with the decisions that need to be made. If we meet and you have left, I will regard you as a brother regardless because of where you stand. You are not alone. I am glad for the involvement of ALL who stand firmly against CSA/ SA these days. That includes lawyers, news, and officers of the law. May God bless them all in their efforts to help us bring a swift end to this corruption. I hope they reach out and let us know what more we can do to help.
Re: a bro… No one is “stuck”. I would encourage you and anyone who has a heart that wants out… to leave. If God is really leading your life and your wife’s life then pray about it and do what God tells you to do. Then you will have peace. It is not complicated.
“Twas Theory” — God is already speaking to you and moving you to just cling to him without the confines of man’s religion. It’s so unfortunate when those you love and care about are still holding onto religion and don’t have the understanding (yet) that you have. (I’m fortunate that my family started questioning the lack of love and consideration shown to others during Covid and gained more out of reading and searching scripture on their own; the corruption exposed this year was the final straw for them.) Glad you’re getting therapy to help you make sense of all that you’re going through…there’s a lot to unpack! It seems we’ve been conditioned to think the workers have some understanding/insight on our salvation that we aren’t afforded. Their advice isn’t needed. Most of them barely have life experience, relationship experience and we now know that although MANY claim to be spirit-led, it isn’t of God. Their approval isn’t needed. No one else’s approval is needed. God is available to each one of us and we need to trust in our own relationship with Him. We stand alone before God. Just be thankful that you now see man’s hand in this and keep clinging to the hand of God. The corruption is being exposed. I truly believe that God is giving everyone a chance to choose whom they will serve through all this: Man (with all the attendance requirements, rules, dress codes, lies, abuse, corruption and secrecy) or God. Trust that He wants to speak directly to you (sometimes just in quietness) and allow yourself to enjoy your own relationship with God. 🌻
Twas theory: THAT is the question we asked? Then we Now know we’ve been scammed! Then question was — What is Spiritual Abuse? You did not give a definition! You gave the Gut-wrenching reality!
Listen-up folks: this too will open the flood gates. They have destroyed a multitude, already! There is nothing warm, soft and fuzzy here.
You are soooo right. God isn’t here. Only someone in your SPOT can write and describe with such clarity and honesty the utter depravity of twisting God’s very WORD and Mind claiming to follow Jesus; while they are “false apostles”… deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the “”apostles of Christ” — 2 Corinthians 11:13 – :15. STOP NOW and read these verses.
THIS IS NOT of God! and Never Was! Your Heart and Mind are thinking clear!
You say: I am a good man with a good logical heart. THAT is a very good sign. (( They have NOT been able to completely destroy you.
The thing that saved our minds and hearts was God’s WORD as it is written:
2 Peter 3:15 – :16 explains::: which they that are “unlearned and unstable wrest = twist as they do the other sciptures UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION
We are “blood brothers”! AND we have the same “blood donor”.
The Risen Christ Jesus!
Thank You to “For Christ” and “a brother”. a brother; we will pray for the clarity of mind for your wife; that “twas theory” has — but minus the degradation. Stand tall! AND you can when you actually read Jesus “earthly ministry” and realize the 2×2’s do not even know to whom Jesus preached – Math. 15:24, etc.; What Jesus preached? nor why? Same with the 12’s ministry. Read the12’s ministry in Acts 2:14 – :36. Apostles Doctrine :43 – :46.
Then get my address from Wings and call us.
God speaks to people who have honest hearts and who diligently seek Him.
He truly does, and He is speaking, LOUDLY, are we listening to the Holy Spirit, or are we blindly listening to corrupt men.
Actually… He usually speaks softly.
It’s usually men with opinions of no value that speak loudly…. Usually.
I have been quite content for over 50 years and things have never been better for me and my family and for those that are joyfully and thankfully going forward in the way.
‘Twas – wish there were “comforting words other than ‘Trust in God’ “, but not sure there is. You are correct – you will be rejected by family and most others in the group that you thought were friends if you leave. We know – it happened to us after being raised in the group and being somewhat prominent members for decades with a home where the workers stayed at more than any other place. We were dropped like a hot potato with almost no contact with any group members or workers. But, our life is much better now and we are very close to God – it is wonderful. There are many good Christians out here. One does not want to stand before God someday and tell him he/she stayed in the group in order not to be judged or rejected by those that are still believing in William Irvine’s “theory”.
A brother, after our very happy, beautiful teen daughter was assaulted by a male worker, who we had known for many years, had in our home numerous times, and had totally trusted, we were much like you and your wife. When I say “we”, I refer to my wife and me. My wife was strong, saw the abuse of our daughter and drew a line in the sand, and said, no more. My wife stayed home on Sunday while I continued to go to the meetings. I voluntarily stopped taking the bread and wine and when I spoke I talked of Jesus and how He would be rejected in such a system. There is no way the workers would accept Jesus and the way He would have looked, long hair, and robe, the style of His day. Jesus would have been rejected before He ever said a word. Those types of testimonies were quickly labeled as me being no longer in the ” form”, or way cast by the system. I stood for Jesus and that was a threat to the workers, the dress code, hair style code and the whole system. The head worker personally told me to hide what I was exposing. The truths, the simple language Jesus used and talked about could be understood by children, and anyone who humbled themselves as a child, but the obvious flaws with the system, or any questions a child might ask of the system as to “why”, was not acceptable. I was told, you ask so many questions you’re going to find yourself ” outside ” the truth. Eventually, after decades of going to meetings, and being proud of being part of a generational family in “the meetings”, God gave me the strength to leave and join my wife at home. From there we found a brand new beginning, joined with other CHRISTIANS and now, today, we genuinely look forward to Sunday worship time, and small groups that meet during the week that really uncover the glorious message God has for us. It’s amazing how much God has shown to us, and how far He has brought us. To worship Him is now such a powerful experience. It will happen for you, too. Start the fight now, on your knees, and the results will come to you and your family. Jesus is there for all who wanted peace, contentment and Him in their life.
For Christ, thanks you for sharing my friend. What you said means a lot to me in this moment. Thank you for your encouragement.
Re: 4 christ… hair…
I very seriously doubt Jesus had long hair. The New Testament says it is a shame for a man to have long hair….
The workers do accept Jesus… on a daily basis… so not sure what you are talking about there either…
Totally agree I doubt Christ was a hippie. It never mentions if he took the Nazarene oath/vow either.
@Jim – You are probably correct about Jesus hair, or the apostles probably wouldn’t have addressed it in I Corinthians 11:14, however then you state, “The workers do accept Jesus…on a daily basis…so not sure what you are talking about there either…”
No one with a conscience, who IS seeking Jesus on a daily basis, would ever touch a child in a sexual way. Even hardened Criminals know better. I have been a part of this faith for 50+ years myself, and love those who are faithful in seeking Jesus, but I also understand that you can not possibly get to almost 800 predators named and thousands of victims with only “one bad apple”. 40%+ are Workers that have been named. 20% are Elders, many who were in the work at one time (and likely were tossed out after repeated complaints of sexual abuse – or the timeline is proving it so). The other 40% are all the “other” categories. So, tell us again, about this “Jesus seeking” ministry? I have chosen to educate myself on predators, predatory behavior, and how they think/groom/assault and whom. If you don’t know all that, then it’s become a choice to be ignorant, because we have all known about all this for over a year now.
I’ll preface this by saying that I don’t wish any ill towards Rob, but my heart is not stirred towards much sympathy. His actions have been anything but Christlike. He has done irreparable damage to the victims/survivors and the credibility of any workers who really are honest. Since the DB exposure, he has had countless opportunities to set things right, admit the wrong (including his complicit actions) reach out to the victims/survivors, offer emotional and financial support, cover himself in sackcloth and ashes, beg for forgiveness and ultimately step down. He could have been instrumental in helping the doubting laity believe the validity of the endemic abuse in the church, instead he continued with his lies and deception and complete lack of love and care for the victims/survivors. It seems those actions have taken a toll on his health. I can’t help but think of all the victims/survivors who would treasured and benefitted from any show of belief, concern, care, protection and financial support that has been so generously shown to Rob. Rob is not the victim or fall guy here as some are choosing to believe.
This post about Rob is evil and full of outright lies. God will deal with people who write things like this in due time. I know Rob personally.
Hopefully the writer of this vile and evil post will ask God for forgiveness and repent before she ends up in eternity with regret and torment.
I haven’t known Rob as long as you have, Jim, but I’ve watched him in HORROR, in the way he’s treated the Elders who tried to help him, those who were warning him, those who were offering their educated help – being swatted away like a bacteria carrying fly. He’s pretended to ask for help, and then turned around and twisted that help to harm the victims while pitting the two professionals who HE asked help from. He’s a narcassist like Richard and pretty well all the overseers are. Our ministry is slowly being gutted of any and all of the workers who actually LOVE God and His son and are not being “good soldiers” to Rob and Richard and now Kent. None of which should be allowed in the ministry that calls themselves “spirit led” (meaning the Spirit of God)…they might be being “led” but it’s NOT by the Spirit of God.
Defender.
I find your comment disturbing. Seems you are either denying the issues or supporting the ministry regardless of their actions and where those actions are immoral or criminal.
You say you stand for truth. I would suggest that all of those participating here do too. So why do you rail against these people posting and commenting here? Do you judge them? Do you hate them? Do you know any of them personally? If you do, have you sat down with them and with love sought to share and understand their pain?
Would you still have this approach if you discovered a trusted worker sexually assaulting your child ? What would your approach be? How would you want it to be dealt with. Would you just ignore it and expect your child to ignore it too? Would you expect your child to just get over it?
Oh and please display your full name?
Jeremy. Yes I stand with the workers. I am a victim from years gone by. History is history can not change it. All we can do is go on from here. I chose and will chose to stay and be a steady hand in the fellowship. If others do.want to that there chose. .Many nice temples down the road they can take there p8ck. As for me and mine we will serve the Lord yes in the true way…..
You mean those nice temples down the road like the millions spent on convention grounds? At least they spend their millions on something used more than 4 days a year.
Wolf’s ….let me tell you about a little convention grounds….one where the men sleep in an old pig barn….100 grand could buy the place and the land. Nope a convention is not the building it’s the people. We are the people…not like other religions where it ends at the ceiling of the chaple and goes no further….take it you think…that’s what’s great. Some will win and some will lose. I feel that we are on the right side. I’m not bitter to those who make other choices. That is there right. To continue is mine and my family’s.
Very few Little House on the Prairie conventions on their last leg with no next generation to continue it. Try heading out West and see the millions. Around the world: https://www.google.com/mymaps/viewer?mid=1k447OiB3QPLrt0zwTZZ1lFIf9jyUppQA&hl=en
Very judgy with your neighbors. Probably shun and treat your non professing family like lepers. True way? Jesus is. Not culture and traditions where molesters and rapists dwell and thrive. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
There are many who feel exactly like you do. Many. =)
@ Be Holder I’m glad you are staying and that you encourage those that want to leave …to leave. We will all be better off. =)
@Beholder – So, you still consider THIS mess, “the true way”? With over 40% of the almost 800 names being that of this ministry? That’s over 300 predators within the ministry…so far!! You really think that God wanted THIS to be the fruit of HIS ministry?
I love the people I meet with in our Sunday morning meeting, and our Wednesday night meeting (not sure how they came up with the name “Bible Study” because we don’t actually have a Bible study), and there are still some in the ministry that I do have respect and love for, but…when we have workers going around asking people for their assests (especially from Widows – because they are more helpless) and saying things like, “You DO want to leave your assets to the workers, don’t you?” – which the DOJ considers Financial Exploitation, and the ministry not “going in faith” – their vehicles, closets in other people’s homes being packed to the gills, and even with stuff that appears they are hoarding for future sale, and Mentally, physically, and sexually abusing people in their own homes (and their companions, while IN other people’s homes)…is NOT a ministry that needs support or continuance!
For those who persist in trying to make a connection from CSA/SA to other elements of the doctrine we believe, it seems like an unfortunate distraction. For those of us who believe the doctrine, have searched scripture, prayed, and experienced the fruit of it, that connection simply doesn’t hold water. There is also a claim that the prevalence of CSA/SA is much higher than in religious organizations. What about organizations who hold pieces of doctrine in common with us (perhaps because they read the same scriptures and pray to the same God)? Do all groups with positions of responsibility have “the worst” CSA/SA rate? Do all groups who believe God will guide all believers to one path of righteousness have “the worst” CSA/SA rate? Do all groups who encourage fellowship have “the worst” CSA/SA rate? Do all groups with conservative appearance and lifestyles have “the worst” CSA/SA rate? Do all groups with primarily celibate ministries have “the worst” CSA/SA rate? The worst or the best rate, can we agree that any CSA/SA is too much and focus on that?
It is clear that those who have left fellowship (and some who have not) have issues with various pieces of doctrine. So…..? Do with that what you will, but to me it is entirely irrelevant to the pressing issue of CSA/SA and its associated evils.
I am so very sorry that the experiences of those who have left fellowship were unhappy and unsatisfying. That is not the case for those of us in fellowship. I am fed, I am encouraged, I have been taught, I am thankful.
Since Dean Bruers evilness got leaked and I mean leaked as in we weren’t supposed to know (?!) there’s so many alarms going off the last 5 months. It’s a $# show. 30-40 workers and 4-5 overseers (?) removed or left, over 550 abuse cases (who knows how many more) and still The True Ministry with Gods Spirit tells workers to continue to cover up and run to the aid and care to protect and keep in meetings pedophiles and rapists and vile evilness instead of running with empathy and care to victims and survivors?? A ministry that leaves the 1 for the 99 is not. Writing letters about we’re still learning, we’re still learning good lord!! Even the last 4-5 months!? The spirit told you 40 years ago to keep it quiet and move that worker to another state or country to continue molesting children?? That spirit? It’s not isolated talk to any sister worker over 50 and any descent honest brother worker point blank face to face if you can find one. I can tell when people post they haven’t asked questions and want to just keep their head in the sand. Don’t want to ask questions because the more you ask the darker and evil it gets. You find out there’s multiple people and generations abused in your own family. But ‘Don’t lose your faith’ (when people say this they mean you have to keep going to meetings to keep your faith… as in meetings = salvation).
In Honesty: There is one thing you do not know: and you do NOT know God’s Word as it is written. Of course, if you like the Doctrine and the fellowship; why would what God has left on record for our learning be of any importance? And, yes, as the 2×2 doctrine came from a well versed “denomination” much of the 2×2 Doctrine will follow THAT Denomination and their man made religion. At least That Denomination brags about HOW, WHERE, WHY and WHEN they began and by WHOM! They print brochures with that information and their Man Made Doctrine and have a special place to display and hand-out. They also recognize there are twisted individuals in sheep clothing and purchase “liability insurance”. Their finances are well documented, recorded, published and reported to the IRS. This only empathizes what 2×2’s do not do!
Many members of Denominations also say: As for me and my House We Well Stand for the Lord!
Who is too Judge??? I Peter 1:11 and 2 Peter 1:21??? God’s Word will judge!
Yes, it is in Black and White in very clear – simple language.
Perhaps it is time to TEACH yourself what God’s Holy Bible really says and to whom and when. Bless your heart; we toooo were in your shoes.
It is brutal to learn WHAT God’s Holy Spirit actually “left on Record” for our learning: and what God left on record for our actually “obedience”.
To help you begin to actually read as written: we suggest Matthew 15:24. Then those 12 chosen “apostles” ministry as witnesses of Jesus. Acts 1: – 6: chapters. Two whom did they preach? Acts 2:5; 2:14, :22, :36?
What was their “Doctrine”? Acts 1:6 Acts 2:42- 46? 4:32 – :37 (Yes, believers!)
Where did the “worship”? Luke 24:53; Acts 2:46; Acts 3:1; Acts 5:41 – 42
Did You read “Daily in the TEMPLE”??? That is Jewish! Is that what you follow?
In Honesty, it is with a heart, uncondemning and in humble earnestly; we desire for you to become responsible to know what God’s Word really says.
We will NOT say it is easy; as it is “brutal” to “unlearn”: then – learn; BUT is so ‘worth’ any effort at any age! Thank you for your honesty, but that is NOT enough. There is a reason Romans 3:21 and Ephesians 2:4-:9, :13 But Now:.
@ Astounded…. wow.. a lot of bizarre words with nothing to back them up. I have been a part of God’s family for several decades.
Your condescending tone and implication that you know the scriptures better than “in Honesty” do not sound like Jesus at all. I find your interpretation of the scriptures you mention to be strange and inaccurate… at best. To be perfectly honest you do not seem to be at all in the position to help anyone understand the scriptures.
Not sure what you are trying to say with the words “in humble earnestly”… but there is nothing humble about your post that I can see.
@ In Honesty. It was great to hear of your experience and your thankfulness. We feel the same way after many decades.
CSA is an issue that should stand alone… always. It is wrong and evil and should be dealt with swiftly.
Sex between adults has many complexities and most of the time there is accountability on both sides. Forcible rape being the exception.
People need to give some thought to arranged marriages a situation where people are under extreme pressure to have sex with someone not at all of their choosing. Are these people scarred for life? Do they need to pay a shrink to “talk about it”? There are millions of these people.
Strangely their marriages last more than a lot of others. Just something to thing about.
Was Lot scarred for life after his daughters took advantage of him? How about Esther… was she scarred for life? How about Hagar was she scarred for life? An angel from God appeared to her and just told her to submit…
What about Solomon’s 700 wives and 300 concubines… were they scarred for life?
What about Deu 21:10 thru 14. Read this… to help your understanding…. and before you reply to this post…
You ask some good questions.
What about organizations who hold pieces of doctrine in common with us (perhaps because they read the same scriptures and pray to the same God)?
It’s the doctrines that aren’t mainstream that are causing problems. Exclusivity for instance, is the root of many problems.
Do all groups with positions of responsibility have “the worst” CSA/SA rate?
The more authoritative the leadership, the more abusive the culture.
Do all groups who believe God will guide all believers to one path of righteousness have “the worst” CSA/SA rate?
If you are referring to exclusivity doctrine, those abuse rates are definitely higher than average.
Do all groups who encourage fellowship have “the worst” CSA/SA rate?
Fellowship in intimate settings is really good for grooming activities.
Do all groups with conservative appearance and lifestyles have “the worst” CSA/SA rate?
Typically, yes.
Do all groups with primarily celibate ministries have “the worst” CSA/SA rate?
Yes.
In Honesty and Watchman, thanks for this calm exchange. I expect Watchman is probably right on most/all of these points, but for reassurance, are there any references that can be cited? (Research papers, surveys, etc, from reliable sources?)
@Watchman…. “the worst CSA/SA rate” not sure where this actually applies. I have seen ZERO proof that it applies to the workers in God’s true ministry. Again I will say ..ZERO proof.
Additionally…. let’s not forget that half of the ministry is sister workers. 50 percent or maybe a little more… so be sure to factor that into the equation…
Answering your own questions with a “yes” seems strange and inaccurate.
Actually, a TAD higher about 70% of our workers are women…
@Jim – Just because you haven’t SEEN the evidence (because legally it can’t be shown to you) doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Now that it’s in the hands of the FBI (because these “men of God” won’t follow scripture and do what should have been done, the first time sexual abuse was ever brought to their attention), we HAD to call them in, and God is now using THEM to rid us of the predators and fraud, and more. Starting at the very tippy top! Has anything transpired yet? Yes, they have been going around visiting with the overseers, with the victims, and as they see the rest of the mess (fraudulent behavior) they are dealing with that! Right now, everyone in the ministry is thinking “we’re good, those agents were so nice, and we must not have done anything wrong or they would have arrested us”…I’m stunned at the ignorance of our ministry. The FBI doesn’t “clear” anyone…ever. They are simply collecting evidence at every stop…adding it to the “jackets” of information to be passed on to the prosecutors, who are right now starting to put together their cases. Which is why many of the WORKERS around the world have sought legal counsel…they are scared…they know what they have done, what they have allowed, what they SHOULD have done, etc.
There might be RARE cases of consensual sex between workers (which is fornication), but they are RARE. The rest is molestation, but the most are RAPE…and NO Newborn, 7yo, 13yo, or 17yo can give “consent” because they are not considered developmentally capable of making those types of decisions – anyone that’s gone to public school in this country KNOWS that, Sex-ed started in 6th grade when I was coming through (49 years ago, and they have started it at earlier grades since!). Besides all that, a worker/minister/preacher etc. (one who gives the impression of authority, as a minister, doctor, dentist, etc.) By LAW – CAN NOT participate in a sexual relationship with ANYONE in their church/congregation/parish/synagogue, etc. because it is considered “Sexual Misconduct”, and can be prosecuted, whether they claim it was consensual or not – there’s an imbalance of power, or perceived power.
To person “In Honesty”.
I expect you and I could agree on many things. I am not questing or challenging you personally to anything you hold in your beliefs of doctrine.
We possibly agree child sexual assault or sexual assault against another person is as low as you can get. (In my case, including hiding, denying, defending or supporting it).
I strongly disagree on your statement this is the only thing we should “focus on”.
Yes, focus on child sexual assault and sexual assault.
But it is crystal clear the light is being focused also on many other life altering and devastating types of abuse in our ministry. Workers past and current are speaking out. Asking for help and change.
The types of abuse is a very long list. You can read these letters for yourself. Many have paid a very high cost to expose this. Friends and workers.
Asking others not to focus on the large issues in our ministry or church is very damaging.
I ask you to consider allowing your focus to include the larger scope of issues being brought to light, as well as your continuation to focus on the vast amount of child sexual assault, sexual assault and exactly where that is coming from.
I must say. The disturbing issues being exposed and brought to light, is not just a “side show” to the child sexual assault and sexual assault issues, as has been suggested.
The issues being exposed in our ministry are the root of these serious and damaging problems.
Darrin. Thank you, that is very well said. It’s probably fair to say that if we all were to sit down and truly hear each other that there will be a great deal of common ground between us (both those that seem to be against what this site is trying to achieve and those that are for it). As for me I value our fellowship and I value us searching and working (with effort and prayer) to align ourselves with the doctrine of Christ. The ministry as we know it, has many of its tenets correct but it’s the resistance to change for better alignment with doctrine that causes many of opportunities for abuse. For good reason CSA and SA are the talk of the day but there is also the matter of abuse of power and issues that stem from it. Where I live we have had a decimation of our sister workers that defies belief. They have literally been bullied out. Why – for speaking about important need for changes. An example are the discretionary rules and traditions. Cultural beliefs have no bearing on salvation. So neither should tradition. The things we do as if they are scriptural because some like it that way or because it’s always been done that way but they are still things that have no influence on our salvation. These are the things that divide and reject people who don’t fit a mould. We need to be clear that our salvation is not through the workers or their words. They are the sowers and The Spirit takes it from there. Obedience to the workers regardless of whether they are dead wrong is a problem. workers are not automatically correct and their word is not by default the word of God because they err. They are human. Tensions arise because we are conditioned to accept and not ask why. We may not always like the answer to our questions but to shut someone up and label them as having a bad spirit for asking is also not right. So our ministry has to take steps to change to avoid ego and human nature from taking hold and masquerading as doctrine. The ministry seems to be so concerned with bad news getting out as if it’s going to hurt the sheep when I think it’s more of a concern of how it’s going to hurt the ministry.
UPDATE:
From: Harold Hilton
Date: September 18, 2023 at 4:33:17 PM MDT
Subject: Update on Rob Newman
Dear friends and fellow workers,
We want to give you a little update on Rob Newman.
Rob has been doing better with his sleeping recently and his condition seems to be improving. He will likely be in the Hospital at least another week.
It looks like after his release he will go to be with his family for a while to try and help him maintain a quiet and lower stress environment so his recovery can continue.
Thanks so much for all your thoughts and letters of care for him.
We are trying to do all we can to help get him well again.
With much appreciation,
The CA staff.