64 thoughts on “To the workers advocating for change”

1. This group is anti fellowship. They are calling for other denominations to preach at convention. They feel as if it is alright basically to do whatever you want. Whatever your heart desires. We in the fellowship are not just another religion. Yes we want to purge the fellowship. As such we do not want to make changes to out belief system. We need to get the dead wood cut… concerned and connected wants to cut the tree down and start over. Start over as they see fit. Not as Jesus sees fit. It’s time to stand against those who would overthrown us.

   • I think if you look directly at the mission of the platform you will see that is not what it’s about. We welcome you to see for yourself that ‘cutting the tree down’ is not what is being done, it’s quite the opposite. It’s also why there are now several workers on the platform and contributing hand in hand with the friends. 91% of all the membership are active and still go to meetings.

   • It’s ok, we can let God stand up to any that are going beyond what He wants. Just stand in your place, be still and encourage your meeting and your workers.

     We know that God does things with precision, not with wild abandon.

     I would urge everyone to just keep very close to God. Don’t follow one crowd or the other.

     Be very careful in all you do and say and your attitude because God has never condoned rebellion. He always encourages faith in Him.

     He knows everything that is and has happened.

     I think those two men in MT were used by God, and they did things in the right way. They were used as precision instruments by God to cut out a very specific problem.

     Turning the whole thing upside down does not necessarily get rid of the problem.

     God will show the right way forward for His true children.

     • TRT. you nailed it thank you.

     • An abuser for decades is your idea of a “precision instrument of God”? You people are sick. Everybody did plenty of “standing in their place” and “leaving it all to Jesus” and “waiting on the Lord” already. It has been a disaster.

     • Sickening. You need to reread my post. I said those men. I was referring to the two men that confronted RC and took him out of the work.

       Why would I think that an abuser was a precision instrument? That makes no sense!

   • Yeah, BeHolder, that is definitely not the case. I’ve been part of the Connected and Concerned Friends for a little over a week, and been participating in the conversations there… totally not anti-fellowship or anti-Truth. Fake news, buddy. Of all the blogs/websites/chat boards focusing that have sprung up due to the CSA issue, Connected and Concerned Friends it is by far the most positive. There’s bible studies going on, zoom meetings being organized, discussions about what we believe and why we believe it, and yes the letter like this one that the entire group collaborated on.
     One of the radical things being discussed on that site include benefits of open format Wed night bible studies. So… not particularly radical. (-:

     • Anonymous isn’t having all the workers step down and take a job for 2 years. Then reapply to a council to get reinstated in the work a radical Idea? Isn’t having a treasure and a secretary so the donations can be controlled a radical idea? I think it is and if you look those are things that are being talked about in your group. That is not what we in the fellowship stand for. CSA must be delt with and is being delt with. As for me and mine we will serve the lord. Not 2 or 3 moderators or hosts on a web site financed by a man who is not coming to meetings.

   • I am getting sick and tired of professing folk like BH stating the following about all other Christians: “they feel as if it is alright basically to do whatever you want”. Is it not YOUR fellowship that has a CSA/SA issue going wild in the leadership and the membership? And leaving its CSA/SA victims to fend for themselves? Please look within YOUR fellowship instead of casting rocks at others that you know nothing about at all. Remember, God will judge us all – he could care less about what Christian religion you belong to – God cares about ones belief in Jesus and and the condition of your heart. If these two items are right, people do not “do whatever you want”. Enough of this Christian bashing – you should be ashamed of yourself.

     • Amen Max. Enough with self righteousness.

     • And we are sick and tired of people who aren’t part of our fellowship dictating what we should do And how we should think. If you don’t like reading these comments you don’t have to read here. No one is forcing you.

     • Agree!

   • Beholder, weren’t Jesus and all the people who followed him radical for their time? Wasn’t Paul radical? They certainly didn’t follow the most religious and zealous groups of their time – they didn’t just lean on what other people thought they understood. They weren’t afraid to search scripture daily, and seek to understand what God wants in the New Testament years. Even the people who followed Jesus very closely needed correction at times. Right now is a time to re-examine what we think we know, because it is very clear not one of us knows everything. If most of us knew everything that was right, and was following it, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Now we see through a glass darkly, but one day we’ll see face to face. CCF is not so radical. It includes 91% professing people and quite a few workers and elders. I would call CCF more open minded than the average. That’s a good thing if we have any hope of climbing out of this crisis together. As an elder I will not accept the way things have been. I’ll give it some time, and my effort to help it evolve in meaningful ways before my family decides whether we can continue to be part of it or not.

     • If you have no intentions of continuing, why not get out now? And leave this to people who intend to stay?

       Jesus and Paul were radical in the eyes of men not God. That’s where I want to be.

     • Yes! Thats true!

     • TRT, if there is meaningful change to address the CSA/SA issue we will stay. We are working toward making that necessary change happen to the best of our limited ability. If the effort succeeds, it will have been in spite of sentiments like yours trying to drive us away: “why not get out now”.

     • One of many.

       I want everyone to stay. But if be holder is not comfortable with CCF, why are you pushing that? You and Shane Garner sound like sales men trying to get people over there. Shane posting on every single blog post is starting to get smarmy and spammy.

       Your ‘meaningful’ change might not be the same as someone else’s. Be holder has the right to feel uncomfortable with CCF and to state it here, just like Shane Garner has the right to advertise it

       We all want CSA/SA dealt with, but some people just have a more cautious view of things. That doesn’t make them wrong.

       Please stay!

   • That is totally ignorant and a blatant lie. Just because one person has advocating for something doesn’t mean it would be contemplated by the whole.
     It is a very constructive platform mostly for encouragement and listening.
     You would be better to stay here with your destructive commentary.

     • I think the tone and words you use are telling.

       It is constructive as long as everyone agrees with sadfriend.

     • I was actually writing to BEHOLDER and his original post – TRT for some reason it came under yours
       How ever very quick sarcasm there TRT. I notice you come across initially as reasonable and then always have a knife thrust somewhere.
       I have always been told sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and the highest form of ignorance
       However I stand by my comment to Beholder as to one person has mentioned it in a discussion, doesn’t mean the CCF is wrong.

     • You detect sarcasm, but I was telling the truth about your post.

       None of this discussion on here makes me want to join CCF, and it doesn’t speak well of the kind of discussions that must be taking place there.

       We are all upset right now, but using hateful language doesn’t help. I am sorry for whatever you have gone through! I wish I could give every hurting person a hug!

   • BeHolder, it’s clear you are part of the problem and sound like those people in Act 19:27 – are you concerned about a loss of income? The reality is that the issues of SA and CSA are too serious to ignore and your untruthful statements about people in the CCF group is beyond silly. Please remember that you do not speak for the entire church, thankfully!

     • And neither do you..

     • I speak for a majority. We are having some conversations about this thing right now.

     • Gosh! You say you “speak for a majority”. Really? You are that well known worldwide that you can claim to do that? May I ask how many people are in your majority group? I would really appreciate your response please.

     • Agree!

2. This letter expresses the feelings of our hearts so perfectly and graciously. Thank you!!! May the TRUE workers realize the importance of their choices and place at this dire time of separation of that which is corrupt among us from that which is honest and pure, that which is Divine Love. That which is Jesus~

   • This letter comes across to me as commandments, Not support.

   • Agree💕

3. Hi Be Holder,
   I can unequivocally state that what you are mentioning is simply parts of multiple discussions that anyone can freely have as free speech on the platform, but it is not an agenda of the platform. I think you should do what you are most comfortable with of course. I can also tell you as a fact that the person who financed the platform still goes to Sunday morning meeting…every Sunday in Marietta, GA, and all the hosts still regularly go to meeting, and as you also heard that 91% of the 1,600 members and growing still do too. It’s the opposite of trying to cut the tree down, it’s a very much prune the tree correctly mindset. Thank you.

   • The tree is not pruned by a web site. Meetings on zoom are not true meetings. People want change and will get it. And it will be slow and deliberate from within…..not by causing open rebellion. You want to be the new leader? Maybe you will take some with you. So be it.

     • It’s an interesting perception that you have on this particular notion. I’m happy to discuss it with you on how that mission can be made more clear versus free speech…similar to exactly what we are doing here. Would it be useful to have a conversation together on this? Thank you

     • Be Holder,

       We invite you to come to the platform and discuss with us your concerns. We ask that you not use an anonymous name because we have very many vulnerable people. Also you were already removed once for using the name Be Holder and refusing to acknowledge your true identity.

     • BEHOLDER I noticed you on the CCF site, hiding behind your non-de-plume. On that site I’ve noticed that probably 98% are on there with openness and exposure, willing to stand for what they believe in and fight for cleansing our church and making it a better and safer place.

       Yes I am actively attending meetings. We have been blessed with an overseer (outside of USA/Canada) who over the last 30+ yrs has been leading us away from rules and regulations towards being a spirit led people. You can tell he LOVES the flock. I personally do not for one minute think he has stayed in the position for place or money. I don’t agree with all the judgements he has made but I understand that he is human.

       28 or so years ago he spoke at a Special Meeting and told us our current church originated from Ireland in the early 1900s. And he did it in a way that those learning it for the first time would not have felt betrayed. He was also one of the first overseers worldwide to develop a protocol for the workers.

       Why, in a safe place like CCF are you skulking in the shadows? Probably, in your obvious ‘Superior Saint’ position you will be recording names and reporting back to your favourite overseers/workers.

       I love our church. But I despise the men/women who have used it as a cover and preyed on innocent victims. And I despise those who have ignored their cries and re-victimised those broken children/people.

       I have not been active yet on CCF because this exposure/purging has not yet reached our country. But I’ve been impressed with the willingness of those who ARE active, to listen to each other in a civil and open manner. I personally know CSA victims so I am on there for them and will fight for justice, for them.

       And yes, I have used my own name and revealed my country so you will be able to find me there if you look for me.

       I’m seeking to help reinstate light through all this darkness that is destroying our church. You are part of the problem …. hiding there in the shadows, throwing stones.

     • BeHolder, you will reap what you sow. Shame on you for lying about the hosts. So many of us are thankful that these issues are being brought to light. I perceive you feel threatened by the prospect of change. God understands that you are a feeble, fretful creature because God made you. If you aren’t strong enough to do the work that is necessary to preserve the fellowship we love, God understands. However, lying in order to undermine the work others are moved by God to do cannot be tolerated. Good sees all.

     • BEHOLDER, so I assume you believe all the workers who held zoom meetings/missions during Covid were out of line?
       And you believe you know the mind of God so intimately that you can emphatically state he will not use the internet as a tool for purging?
       We have had 60+ years for the overseers/workers/elders to prune this vileness from the INSIDE. Please explain to me why you think they would have started now if it wasn’t for pressure coming on them from the OUTSIDE?
       Even if you are not, a lot of us on the INSIDE are rejoicing that Advocates For The Truth is confronting this publicly.

     • Is this the kind of change you support; for people to just leave? That is true change at all.

   • Agree! This website is trying to be part of the answer not part of the problem, I very much appreciate this website,CCF!

4. I ‘Removed’ myself. I didn’t need to see the worker bashing and downing of the fellowship. That is not help full to anyone. If you want to discuss it you have my email and know who I am. Thanks

   • Be Holder,
     There’s plenty of worker and meeting “bashing” going on here. Some of it by me. Doesn’t mean I hate the workers or the fellowship. Workers who have knowingly covered up abuse or failed to report abuse have no excuses. Repentance does not remove your legal consequences to society. One can just as easily repent behind bars as by the side of there bed.

     For crimes against humanity, many have swung from the gallows by simply saying “I was just following orders.”

     I heard a judge once say to a defendant, ” I can usually change someone’s behavior by reaching in their pocket and taking their money. If that doesn’t work, I take away their freedom.”

     • Skip. You are right. The ones who have perpetuated CSA need to go…all the way. Ed Colahan would be rolling In his grave to see us today. We need a purge with no allowance . BUT IT HAS TO COME FROM THE INSIDE. Not from some who would make changes as they see fit. It must be elders. Friends. Workers working in concert with the will of God. Wings would you please give Skip my email.

   • We actually don’t have your email and don’t know who you are. Please feel free to send me an email to Devon.Wijesinghe@gmail.com and I would be more than happy to hear your thoughts in depth. We would encourage a productive dialogue. Thanks agai.

5. Be Holder:
   I don’t know you. I also don’t know Devon Wijesinghe or Connected and Concerned Friends. What I see, however, is you making a lot of hostile and defensive comments and being very rude toward Devon and Concerned’s significant efforts for this fellowship and good faith attempts to dialogue with you. I know that you, like all of us, are feeling all the emotions right now. It’s hard. It’s so hard. Here’s what you need to come to terms with, though. The times, they are a changing, and things will never be the same again. You, like everyone else, are faced with choices right now. You can say nothing and watch how it all unfolds. You can choose to continue doing what you’ve always done. You can choose to raise your voice to be part of the solution or to continue make undermining comments about other people and their efforts. Regardless of what you choose, though, know that we are not going back to the way things used to be. I repeat, We. Are. Not. Going. Back.
   Everyone’s voice matters. Everyone’s voice is important. Showing a contempt and lack of respect for the voices of others in this fellowship is a very large part of why we are where we are right now. In one of your earlier comments, you used the phrase “that’s not what we in the fellowship stand for.” I am a member of this fellowship and you don’t speak for me. How very fortunate for you if you have never had a negative experience in this fellowship and can’t relate to others who have–but don’t attack things like Zoom meetings and undermine the efforts of others. You don’t know other people’s experiences and stories. You have a voice and that’s great. Accept that other people do, too, and start using your voice in a positive and constructive way.

   • Mom. I have more reasons than most to be bitter. I forgive the ones that in my youth took things from me. There is a backstory. Times are changing. But God does not. He has allowed things to get where they are. He will purge his way. But not in the way some think. Trying to end the fellowship is not the way to do it. That is what is going on here. We as friends need to work together but it needs to be lead by elders workers and friends…not by a web site. Enough said.

     • And how do you propose we achieve that with honesty and transparency worldwide, without a forum like CCF?

     • Well you have advised everyone as you represent the majority 🙄, and have plenty to say. Very dismissive, so I quess now you have nothing else to say.

     • Welcome to 2023. Like it or not the mode of communication is much online and especially with younger people. We need to be thinking of the future. I’m conservative, but I realize this about our world today. The truth has changed in some of its traditions, people change too… it’s only God that stays the same throughout the ages. Sorry, but you are coming across as very judgmental and condescending. Changes do need to be made. Particularly what is it about the truth that is conducive to CSA/SA.? This seriously needs to be discussed. So, we need to be open minded about the matter and be humble enough to admit where perhaps we have gotten some things wrong. Doesn’t mean we want to scrap everything and start over. You don’t speak for the entire fellowship.

     • “Particularly what is it about the truth that is conducive to CSA/SA.? This seriously needs to be discussed.”

       Good question and it’s not a simple answer. There are a lot of layers that need to get peeled back in order to examine the fundamental causes of rampant abuse. It definitely should get broadly discussed. I don’t see an appetite for that yet among mainstream F&Ws, most of whom are just putting their heads down hoping for this all to blow over.

   • Don’t be bashing others yourself. I think we are all mature adults here. You do not speak for everyone. You do as you feel to do. You can make any changes you want. Jesus is the same, yesterday and forever. Just because many voices are wanting change, and yes some changes need to be made. But you can’t take away from hearts of others. You can’t stop conventions as you don’t own them, you can’t stop meetings, or workers being workers. You can’t stop us from following Jesus and having as it is..you can continue bashing the workers, (who you lump all as one, not right) This is our choice of what we believe in our hearts. It is everyone’s choice to continue on as they feel in their heart towards a NEVER CHANGING GOD. Change what you want for yourself..the landscape might look different in the crowd, the lists might be shortened, but we press on. Kindness is free!

     • No one is trying to stop anything. But this is a serious matter that needs to be dealt with properly. The law may just step in if things don’t get dealt with properly. The workers and friends are not above the law, period. They have to obey the law, which is scriptural. The problem we’re addressing seems to be pervasive in the truth. Why is this?

   • Thanks Mom, I appreciated your reply to beholder.I and many others have left the fellowship because our voices were silenced.

6. Be Holder,
   skipthompsontile@gmail.com
   Please message anytime.

   Skip

7. Why in the world are there so many people ganging up on Be holder? You make CCF seem like a place I don’t want to go if you come here and gang up on be holder. Some are doing it in a kind way, but others using mean and harsh language.
   That isn’t really the way to get people to want to join. It seems like anyone with a dissenting opinion will be ganged up on!
   I think you all need to re think your approach on here!
   I am not saying I agree but that it seems that you think every voice should be heard, but only if they don’t disagree with you.

   • TRT, if you join CCF merely to have a look, you will see there is an ongoing civil and respectful discussion on there with many differing opinions. Not sure on your interpretation, but do you think my previous response to BEHOLDER was out of line? Unfortunately BEHOLDER is coming across as very uncompromising in their attitude, and throwing a lot of stones.

     I would also love it if he/she would respond to the questions above by CURIOUS and others. As I don’t know who BEHOLDER is, I only have this platform to try and understand their reasoning.

     • How can that be throwing stones when be holder is just stating an opinion about what they saw happening on CCF. You have your opinion, they have theirs.

       It was the people responding who attacked and threw stones. Not everyone, but more than one. Accusing be holder of blatant lying and being ignorant.

       Is that what you consider dialog?

       Does everyone have to think exactly the same, or they aren’t worthy of respect?

       Be holder was obviously disturbed by discussions on CCF. It is fine to put out your opposing opinion, but it feels several of these posts were needlessly harsh and trying to shut down that opposing opinion, but maybe it just came across wrong, and they didn’t mean it that way.

       Sorry. I call it like I see it.

       I am not saying I agree with be holder, but just that I don’t agree with this dog pile.

       I know everyone is trying to come up with solutions, but different people have various comfort levels. Would be nice if we could be our brothers keeper and try to bring everyone along.

8. This site is for CSA victims, resources and education about this devastating crime, and civil conversation regarding ways to make the 2×2 group safe for children. Please refrain from the above arguing.

   • TRT both yourself and BEHOLDER have told people to ‘get out’ of the church. That is not respectful dialogue.

     • You completely misrepresent what I said, but I am not going to get into it with you.

       I don’t want anyone to leave.

     • TRT, you may not have meant it that way but that IS what you said to ‘oneofmany’ in your comment above:

       “If you have no intentions of continuing, why not get out now? And leave this to people who want to stay.”

       Words on a page can easily be misunderstood without having the tone of voice to temper them. I do not believe I misrepresented your written word, however I am glad for the clarification that you did not actually mean it that way.

       I have been back through BEHOLDER’s comments and if you insist then I will also list the times they have told people to get out. BEHOLDER is not at all respectful in their dialogue.

9. TRT
   Please read as below.
   BE HOLDER | June 20, 2023 at 11:01 am
   “This GROUP IS ANTI FELLOWSHIP. They are calling for other denominations to preach at convention. “
   AND
   – “concerned and connected wants TO CUT THE TREE DOWN AND START OVER. Start over as they see fit.”

   That is a blanket statement about “Concerned and Connected” quite clearly. And all the people on it. As highlighted in capitals.
   Which is clearly FALSE or a LIE as it is untrue.
   It insults all the Victims who have shared and all the people who are supporting and encouraging them, also the people who had the courage to set it up. The discussions are wholesome and spiritual, with many Testimonies shared.
   So you can water it down and whitewash all you want. However, all the responses were because of the tone of what was written, which was an attack not just a harmless opinion.
   You might feel differently if you bothered to register and read all the heartfelt discussions. You might also understand why it was highly offensive to so many.

10. Thanks “Truth will set us free” spot on!
    Beholder is sadly part of the problem as you said.

11. This posting was quite triggering for me – it is like someone else gets to decide how others think. Telling the workers advocating for change how they are feeling and how sorry you are for them that they are in that position of feeling that way. Gaslighting. And then using scripture to veil and justify the bitterness. “You’re not sure how much longer your boss is going to be around”. It seems to me the word “boss” was used intentionally to convey how the workers advocating for change feel about their overseer. Since you are letting them know how they are thinking and feeling. “You are feeling pressure all around you.” I know they are feeling pressured, but I am kind of thinking that letters like this pressure them as much as anything. “ And yet you feel compelled to continue under his direction.” If you have some workers that you’ve talked to that feel exactly this way, then I’m sure they will be happy to get this letter. Please don’t tell me I’m wrong how I’m feeling. Maybe my thinking is distorted. That happens with victims. I understand that. But I also acknowledge that I must be realistic about what I can handle and what I cannot.
    –
    I really am thankful for those who have opened up their time and hearts to help enact change. I also want to be a part of healthy change. But I know that being on these sites has not been healthy for me. I really do believe that love will win in the end. I am praying to God that He will help me to know what is my part so that I can heal and can be an enabler of others’ healing, without sacrificing the eternal ways of heaven. Jesus who was the most abused of all, often by those who were his own, He only bowed his head and died for them. This is what I need more of in my own spirit. There is no other way but Jesus.

12. This is how I felt, too. It is like they are commanding the workers to feel a certain way. And who are the workers advocating for change? What exactly are those workers doing to advocate for change?

13. Did you want all their names listed and the actions listed along side TRT?

    They are actually showing EMPATHY, an understanding of the way good honest workers, who have no power other than to labour in their areas and save souls, are feeling. Who feel angry, sad and betrayed by their leadership.

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